NationStates Jolt Archive


Aristotelian America

Eolam
30-10-2005, 01:30
The state of basic scientific literacy amongst the U.S. populace, it would seem, is staggeringly appalling.

"Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."

(August 2005)

CHICAGO - When Jon D. Miller looks out across America, which he can almost do from his 18th-floor office at Northwestern University Medical School in Chicago, he sees a landscape of haves and have-nots - in terms not of money, but of knowledge.

Dr. Miller, 63, a political scientist who directs the Center for Biomedical Communications at the medical school, studies how much Americans know about science and what they think about it. His findings are not encouraging.

While scientific literacy has doubled over the past two decades, only 20 to 25 percent of Americans are "scientifically savvy and alert," he said in an interview. Most of the rest "don't have a clue." At a time when science permeates debates on everything from global warming to stem cell research, he said, people's inability to understand basic scientific concepts undermines their ability to take part in the democratic process.

Over the last three decades, Dr. Miller has regularly surveyed his fellow citizens for clients as diverse as the National Science Foundation, European government agencies and the Lance Armstrong Foundation. People who track Americans' attitudes toward science routinely cite his deep knowledge and long track record.

"I think we should pay attention to him," said Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, who cites Dr. Miller's work in her efforts to advance the cause of evolution in the classroom. "We ignore public understanding of science at our peril."

Rolf F. Lehming, who directs the science foundation's surveys on understanding of science, calls him "absolutely authoritative."

Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century.

At one time, this kind of ignorance may not have meant much for the nation's public life. Dr. Miller, who has delved into 18th-century records of New England town meetings, said that back then, it was enough "if you knew where the bridge should be built, if you knew where the fence should be built."

"Even if you could not read and write, and most New England residents could not read or write," he went on, "you could still be a pretty effective citizen."

No more. "Acid rain, nuclear power, infectious diseases - the world is a little different," he said.

It was the nuclear power issue that first got him interested in public knowledge of science, when he was a graduate student in the 1960's. "The issue then was nuclear power," he said. "I used to play tennis with some engineers who were very pro-nuclear, and I was dating a person who was very anti-nuclear. I started doing some reading and discovered that if you don't know a little science it was hard to follow these debates. A lot of journalism would not make sense to you."

Devising good tests to measure scientific knowledge is not simple. Questions about values and attitudes can be asked again and again over the years because they will be understood the same way by everyone who hears them; for example, Dr. Miller's surveys regularly ask people whether they agree that science and technology make life change too fast (for years, about half of Americans have answered yes) or whether Americans depend too much on science and not enough on faith (ditto).

But assessing actual knowledge, over time, "is something of an art," he said. He varies his questions, as topics come and go in the news, but devises the surveys so overall results can be compared from survey to survey, just as SAT scores can be compared even though questions on the test change.

For example, he said, in the era of nuclear tests he asked people whether they knew about strontium 90, a component of fallout. Today, he asks about topics like the workings of DNA in the cell because "if you don't know what a cell is, you can't make sense of stem cell research."

More at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?ex=1125547200&en=631977063d726261&ei=5070.
Neu Leonstein
30-10-2005, 01:37
American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."
I've recently been indirectly accused by people of not having enough faith in the masses doing the right thing...reading things like that, I think they might be right.
Madnestan
30-10-2005, 01:41
I've recently been indirectly accused by people of not having enough faith in the masses doing the right thing...reading things like that, I think they might be right.

Well, that's only because the elite doesn't want to educate them well enough :(
Can't find any other reason for that. Countries with much smaller GDP's and weaker economies have achieved better level of basic knowledge amongst their population.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
30-10-2005, 01:41
I've recently been indirectly accused by people of not having enough faith in the masses doing the right thing...reading things like that, I think they might be right.
Humanity would be so much better off were it not for all of these goddam humans running around and fucking things up.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
30-10-2005, 01:48
"Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."
I'd like to see the exact questions they asked, for instance the one about radiation doesn't say how they asked, and what exactly is defined as a correct answer. Would you expect everyone to know the details about electrons moving to a higher energy level and such? And how much detail was needed about molecules (especially since saying "in general" could mean just 50.5%)? Was a collection of atoms, sufficient answer? Or did they have to know details about bonds?
Madnestan
30-10-2005, 01:52
I'd say the self-explanatory "One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century." is enough to be the basis for this conversation. If 20% of people answer wrong to that, there's a problem deeper than just in the way of asking.
Eolam
30-10-2005, 02:50
Perhaps one shouldn't expect much if, as indicated by a 2002 National Geographic Society survey, among 18- to 24-year-old Americans given maps:

87 percent cannot find Iraq

83 percent cannot find Afghanistan

76 percent cannot find Saudi Arabia

70 percent cannot find New Jersey

49 percent cannot find New York

11 percent cannot find the United States
Smunkeeville
30-10-2005, 03:28
Perhaps one shouldn't expect much if, as indicated by a 2002 National Geographic Society survey, among 18- to 24-year-old Americans given maps:
that is pathetic. My 4 year old can point all of those out on a map.
Yupaenu
30-10-2005, 03:31
The state of basic scientific literacy amongst the U.S. populace, it would seem, is staggeringly appalling.

"Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."

(August 2005)

More at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/science/30profile.html?ex=1125547200&en=631977063d726261&ei=5070.
and this is why there needs to be a universal education requirement...
i don't know, but i'm rather certian that if you come here and ask around none of us won't know.
Melkor Unchained
30-10-2005, 04:05
After looking at some of these numbers, I'm forced to say that if you beleive any of this, you probably belong in one of these studies everyone's bitching about. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that 20% of our population thinks the earth revloves around the sun any more than I believe that 11% of us can't find the United Frikking States on a map.

I don't know where they rounded up the people to poll, but looking at the numbers I'd have to say the majority of these studies had to have been conducted at a Mississippi bus stop. Anyone who treats them as indicative of our intellectual population as a whole has got some explaining to do.
Eolam
30-10-2005, 04:50
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/20/geography.quiz/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html

I'm in the process of locating some more authoritative figures.
Sabbatis
30-10-2005, 04:57
I'd need to see a solid survey before I believe this. Something that samples all segments of society.

I am going to withhold judgement until I see that, this doesn't seem possible. I'm from Missouri, as they say. I can find that on a map, too.
Melkor Unchained
30-10-2005, 05:21
I think everyone seems to be missing the fact that this survey was conducted with no more than 300 people from each country (note how they wait till the end to mention that). Somehow, I doubt any reasonable person should have much cause to label the entire country based on the test results of a negligible portion of it
Corneliu
30-10-2005, 05:36
that is pathetic. My 4 year old can point all of those out on a map.

Now this is even sadder when a 4 yo can place things on a map whereas other, more educated people, can't
Heron-Marked Warriors
30-10-2005, 05:42
Now this is even sadder when a 4 yo can place things on a map whereas other, more educated people, can't

Well, that's hardly a good test. One four year old, brought into this specifically for this ability he has.
Smunkeeville
30-10-2005, 13:48
Well, that's hardly a good test. One four year old, brought into this specifically for this ability he has.
My kid is a she. Yes I agree it is hardly a good test because she isn't an average 4 year old either. ;)
Yupaenu
30-10-2005, 13:56
My kid is a she. Yes I agree it is hardly a good test because she isn't an average 4 year old either. ;)
neither am i.
but that's cause i'm not four years old :p .
Smunkeeville
30-10-2005, 14:50
neither am i.
but that's cause i'm not four years old :p .
LOL
Safalra
30-10-2005, 15:14
Only about 10 percent know what radiation is.
I'm suprised it's that high. Most people (in my probably highly unrepresentative experience) only know that radiation is bad and comes out of nuclear stuff and microwaves. School courses here (UK) only teach you about alpha, beta and gamma radiation at GCSE (age 15/16).
Heron-Marked Warriors
30-10-2005, 15:15
I'm suprised it's that high. Most people (in my probably highly unrepresentative experience) only know that radiation is bad and comes out of nuclear stuff and microwaves. School courses here (UK) only teach you about alpha, beta and gamma radiation at GCSE (age 15/16).

Weren't they asking adults?:confused:
Safalra
30-10-2005, 15:25
Weren't they asking adults?:confused:
How many adults can actually remember their GCSEs though? Even I (and yes, I know how pretentious that sounds) can't remember everything I learnt for GCSEs - I definitely wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with a German, despite getting a B for my German GCSE. If you don't use knowledge you quickly forget it (a couple of months ago I needed to some calculus for something, and had to look up the integration by parts rule).
Heron-Marked Warriors
30-10-2005, 15:33
How many adults can actually remember their GCSEs though? Even I (and yes, I know how pretentious that sounds) can't remember everything I learnt for GCSEs - I definitely wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with a German, despite getting a B for my German GCSE. If you don't use knowledge you quickly forget it (a couple of months ago I needed to some calculus for something, and had to look up the integration by parts rule).

That's true, I guess. I was just confused by what you said. It seemed to be saying that they wouldn't know because they hadn't been taught it yet, or something. My bad.