NationStates Jolt Archive

http://ineedjesus.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/Todays_church.htm


I think that site pretty well describes the majority of the christian church today...while reading that i started to fully understand why the world hates it...I can say that if i was a non-beleiver i would not want to go to church....But because I have hope that better can come about, i will still go to try and do God's will....Thoughts?

You have a snowball's chance in hell. But good luck trying. Maybe if enough people do, they can add all their really small chances together and actually succeed.

It's not god I dislike, it's his fanclub.

are you expecting the rapture, zilam?

are you expecting the rapture, zilam?


hey its always been a thought of mine that its coming soon...i mean look at everything....its all fallen into place more perfect than anyother time in history

hey its always been a thought of mine that its coming soon...i mean look at everything....its all fallen into place more perfect than anyother time in history
The apostles were supposted to be alive at the time of the rapture. Since they're all dead, either it already happened or it never will happen.

hey its always been a thought of mine that its coming soon...i mean look at everything....its all fallen into place more perfect than anyother time in history
what happens to a good mormon boy in the after life if the rapture comes before he is old enough to get married and have children? dont you miss out on the best parts?

The apostles were supposted to be alive at the time of the rapture. Since they're all dead, either it already happened or it never will happen.


Where does it say that?

are you expecting the rapture, zilam?
Back when I was 10 and a firm believer, I used to be terrified that I had lost the cosmic lottery and was going to be the Anti-Christ. I suppose everyone goes through a phase something like that.

what happens to a good mormon boy in the after life if the rapture comes before he is old enough to get married and have children? dont you miss out on the best parts?

Well, i think marriage and children are not as good as being able to be with GOd

Where does it say that?
Don't have the exact verse handy. It's a pretty famous one, so I'm sure someone else will know which one it is.

Back when I was 10 and a firm believer, I used to be terrified that I had lost the cosmic lottery and was going to be the Anti-Christ. I suppose everyone goes through a phase something like that.


Dear God i went through that phase twice...Lol...thank God i got rid of those thoughts

hey its always been a thought of mine that its coming soon...i mean look at everything....its all fallen into place more perfect than anyother time in history
Uh uh. I'm still waiting for Santa to deliver me some goodies, but you don't hear me complaing. :p

Sorry, I'll be good. The fact is organized people are collectively crazy. Individuals are fine; a Republican strayed from the herd -for example- will freely admit he think's Bush is a douchebag. Whether we're refering to a groups of Christians or a group of Liberals, they will inevitably spew forth rubbish with amazing tenacity. No one knows why this is, but it just is. Who know's, maybe stupidity loves company.

Don't have the exact verse handy. It's a pretty famous one, so I'm sure someone else will know which one it is.


Was it" this generation won't pass before these things come about" or something like that?

Well, i think marriage and children are not as good as being able to be with GOd
no no thats not what i mean

i mean if you never get a chance to marry and have children arent you shut out of the best possible afterlife?

Back when I was 10 and a firm believer, I used to be terrified that I had lost the cosmic lottery and was going to be the Anti-Christ. I suppose everyone goes through a phase something like that.
I haven't gotten over it. Namely because I keep contimplating how to so how create a new Roman Empire and use it to conquor the world and appoint myself as some kind of God... What?

Was it" this generation won't pass before these things come about" or something like that?
Yeah, something like that. Basically, the world was supposed to end before the disciples died.

no no thats not what i mean

i mean if you never get a chance to marry and have children arent you shut out of the best possible afterlife?


Not from what i have read...But you said something about mormon..so you migh thave different beliefs... In fact it teaches in the NT that to be single is to have a gift..You are able to resist the all the desires of the flesh

Yeah, something like that. Basically, the world was supposed to end before the disciples died.

Most bible scholars think that Jesus meant something totally different when saying that..I forget what...but you should look it up....

Not from what i have read...But you said something about mormon..so you migh thave different beliefs... In fact it teaches in the NT that to be single is to have a gift..You are able to resist the all the desires of the flesh
oh im sorry i must have you mixed up with someone else, i thought that was a mormon site you sent us to.

its just a question that occurred to me when i saw it reference the rapture. the mormons have a somewhat different story of the afterlife than the rest of christianity does.

oh im sorry i must have you mixed up with someone else, i thought that was a mormon site you sent us to.

its just a question that occurred to me when i saw it reference the rapture. the mormons have a somewhat different story of the afterlife than the rest of christianity does.


Oh no...i don't think it is mormon..i hope its not...:|

And i did not mean that in a bad way to mormons...that was simply said because on the site i swore it said mormonism is a cult...i have no opinion on the mormons..

well lets start over.

you can tell i only glanced at the site, saw some strange church name that i assumed came from the book of mormon, (my bad), then moved on.

what made you link to THAT site and what should i have taken from it? (given that it was too long for me to really bother reading)

well lets start over.

you can tell i only glanced at the site, saw some strange church name that i assumed came from the book of mormon, (my bad), then moved on.

what made you link to THAT site and what should i have taken from it? (given that it was too long for me to really bother reading)


Oh...well check out the other prophecy info on the site... All accurate..gives you verse how it is applies to today...the only listed like 16 out of the 300+ prophecies that have come true this far..so i count it as rather credible

I can say that if i was a non-beleiver i would not want to go to church....But because I have hope that better can come about, i will still go to try and do God's will....Thoughts?
you don't have to go to church to do God's will, you don't even have to hang out with Christians (although having someone with like goals to talk to does help)

I would pray about it, a lot. My other advice is that no church is better than being in a church that you don't think is right for you. (for Christians, I am not advocating people just give up on Christianity or anything.)


Don't have the exact verse handy. It's a pretty famous one, so I'm sure someone else will know which one it is.

here it is (at the end) in context, there is a lot of controversy on what was actually meant, but from what I can gather Jesus wasn't talking about the generation at the time but the generation when all this other stuff goes down and in that generation the world will end. (but read it for yourself and decide)

Matthew 24
Signs of the End of the Age
1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that itis near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generationwill certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

http://ineedjesus.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/Todays_church.htm


I think that site pretty well describes the majority of the christian church today...while reading that i started to fully understand why the world hates it...I can say that if i was a non-beleiver i would not want to go to church....But because I have hope that better can come about, i will still go to try and do God's will....Thoughts?

I disagree. I think there are many churches that are that way, specially the large mega-churches of the US, Central America, and the Phillipines. However, I dont have any reason to believe that this accounts for a majority of churches. You find many good churches throughout the world. You even find a few good mega-churches (Saddleback Church comes to mind). Yes, its a problem, and a growing problem at that but I have no reason to believe it accounts for a majority of churches.

I disagree. I think there are many churches that are that way, specially the large mega-churches of the US, Central America, and the Phillipines. However, I dont have any reason to believe that this accounts for a majority of churches. You find many good churches throughout the world. You even find a few good mega-churches (Saddleback Church comes to mind). Yes, its a problem, and a growing problem at that but I have no reason to believe it accounts for a majority of churches.
true it isn't the majority, but it is something to be concerned about, I have been to many churches that were just like what was described, thank God I am not in one now. :) It is a miracle, I know.

you don't have to go to church to do God's will, you don't even have to hang out with Christians (although having someone with like goals to talk to does help)

I would pray about it, a lot. My other advice is that no church is better than being in a church that you don't think is right for you. (for Christians, I am not advocating people just give up on Christianity or anything.)


Seeing as the vast majority of the New Testament is composed of instructions on running a church (all of the epistles except 1 and 2 Timothy) or the story of how the church was founded (Acts), I find it hard to believe that it is possible to do God's will while ignoring the vast majority of the New Testament.

Also, let's not forget the emphasis of the temple as the center of life in the Old Testament. The idea of gathering in a meeting place to worship God in your community pervades the entire bible and is a central tenet of Christianity.

Christianity would be able to create value in the world if it's followers actually followed it. Through the Bible, Jesus points out the road to salvation, but instead of following that road, believers just stare at the end of Jesus' finger and "ooh" and "ah". Of course, when one points this out, one is rebuked for not staring at the finger.

Ok, I feel better now.:D

Seeing as the vast majority of the New Testament is composed of instructions on running a church (all of the epistles except 1 and 2 Timothy) or the story of how the church was founded (Acts), I find it hard to believe that it is possible to do God's will while ignoring the vast majority of the New Testament.

Also, let's not forget the emphasis of the temple as the center of life in the Old Testament. The idea of gathering in a meeting place to worship God in your community pervades the entire bible and is a central tenet of Christianity.
sure it is better to be involved in church, but if the church is holding you back then maybe you should separate your self from it, or find a new one.

I didn't go in to enough elaboration (sorry) I worry about people though that think that going to church will make you a "good Christian" (not that you said that)

I am always reminded of the saying "going to church doesn't make you a good Christian any more than going to Mc Donald's makes you a chicken nugget"

I probably read more into that then what was meant, because I took it to mean that either you are a chicken nugget or you aren't if you are a chicken nugget you can be that wherever you are and if you aren't hanging around by the fryer really isn't going to help..........

I always have a sandal and a bottle ready, in case Brian returns.

sure it is better to be involved in church, but if the church is holding you back then maybe you should separate your self from it, or find a new one.

I didn't go in to enough elaboration (sorry) I worry about people though that think that going to church will make you a "good Christian" (not that you said that)

I am always reminded of the saying "going to church doesn't make you a good Christian any more than going to Mc Donald's makes you a chicken nugget"

I probably read more into that then what was meant, because I took it to mean that either you are a chicken nugget or you aren't if you are a chicken nugget you can be that wherever you are and if you aren't hanging around by the fryer really isn't going to help..........


Ah, but a chicken nugget that does not come from McDonalds can never be a chicken Mcnugget. ;) Going to church will not make you a good Christian but it is nearly impossible to be a good Christian without going to church.

http://ineedjesus.com/Documents/Bible_Prophecy/Todays_church.htm


I think that site pretty well describes the majority of the christian church today...while reading that i started to fully understand why the world hates it...I can say that if i was a non-beleiver i would not want to go to church....But because I have hope that better can come about, i will still go to try and do God's will....Thoughts?

To quote Nietzsche, “There has only one Christian, and he died on the cross.”

Ah, but a chicken nugget that does not come from McDonalds can never be a chicken Mcnugget. ;) Going to church will not make you a good Christian but it is nearly impossible to be a good Christian without going to church.

Of course after eating a chicken McNugget, many people become ill and wonder if maybe there are better places for chicken nuggets, only to find out that any food with a coefficent of restitution greater than 0.25 probably should not be eaten. Some people abandon fast food entirely, while others move on to discover that there are some fast food places worth eating, like El Pollo Loco or In N Out Burger.

To quote Nietzsche, “There has only one Christian, and he died on the cross.”


But wasn't he jewish though:p ...


Anyways back to the thread..I know all to well how a church can hold you back...my old church did this..and honestly..i haven't been to church regularly since then...I was all set to going down the road of being a preacher...but then the church started dividing and so on...and i walked out one day during a sermon by our "pastor"(he wasn't, i had more people come to the alter one sermon than he did his career there...not saying i did it though..but saying i let God do the talking..not myself) ok thats enough from me

hey its always been a thought of mine that its coming soon...i mean look at everything....its all fallen into place more perfect than anyother time in history

buddy, you obviously are not educated. No suprise there. But I'll give you a free bee so you can take history in some perspective.

1. World War 2.
2. Cold War

Ah, but a chicken nugget that does not come from McDonalds can never be a chicken Mcnugget. ;) Going to church will not make you a good Christian but it is nearly impossible to be a good Christian without going to church.
true
nearly impossible= highly improbable

It is merely highly improbable that you would be a "good Christian" without things that going to church provide (fellowship, accountability, encouragement, ect.) but, with a whole lot of work and a good Christian friend you could do it, it is not impossible.

The apostles were supposted to be alive at the time of the rapture. Since they're all dead, either it already happened or it never will happen.

So where does one find the RAPTURE in the Bible? I looked and couldn't find it.

So where does one find the RAPTURE in the Bible? I looked and couldn't find it.
The word isn't actually in there. Most point to the verses below that they say describes the concept though.

Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24:40-41



Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

* yes I know you didn't ask me, but I thought it would be okay if I answered.

The word isn't actually in there. Most point to the verses below that they say describes the concept though.

Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24:40-41



Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

* yes I know you didn't ask me, but I thought it would be okay if I answered.

No, that's fine. I'm glad you answered. Do you believe this is meant in a physical sense or more spiritual? As in people will be changed for the better.

No, that's fine. I'm glad you answered. Do you believe this is meant in a physical sense or more spiritual? As in people will be changed for the better.
There is contraversy about it. Liberal Christians either think it is symbolic, or ignore it entirely. Bible literalists, of course, take it to be a literal physical change.

I am still kind of up in the air on the whole spiritual/physical issue, I am leaning twards physical though because of the number of times it is eluded to, and because of the meanings and usage of some of the original languages in the verses. I don't put too much of my energy into it though because there are more important things for me to do.

For the world to end, we'd need some sort of superchurch to be corrupted by those who don't know Christ who come to power after the rapture.

Jesus is _SUPER_ cool and he luvs me!!!!

For the world to end, we'd need some sort of superchurch to be corrupted by those who don't know Christ who come to power after the rapture.
There are a whole lot of things that need to happen before the world ends, and there is a whole lot of controversy about what those things are.

In fact, I have heard a lot of people who think America is directly involved in the end of the world, but my studies have led me to believe that America either
a. is long gone by then
or
b. a whole lot less important than people realize

because I haven't seen America described at all in any of the prophecy.

For the world to end, we'd need some sort of superchurch to be corrupted by those who don't know Christ who come to power after the rapture.

There are several superchurchs out there. Where is this in the bible?

There is contraversy about it. Liberal Christians either think it is symbolic, or ignore it entirely. Bible literalists, of course, take it to be a literal physical change.

I am still kind of up in the air on the whole spiritual/physical issue, I am leaning twards physical though because of the number of times it is eluded to, and because of the meanings and usage of some of the original languages in the verses. I don't put too much of my energy into it though because there are more important things for me to do.

I have the hardest time believing this was ever meant to be taken literally.

There are several superchurchs out there. Where is this in the bible?
He is probably speaking about prophecy in Revelation about a huge church that handed over it's leadership to a false prophet.

some believe this is the Catholic church (and that is why all the rumors about certain popes being anti-christs)
some believe it is a protestant church( superchurch theory)

and there are some like me who think that Revelation is mostly symbolic, and the prophecy is best understood when compared to prophecy in the other parts of the Bible.

*sorry to keep answering, but I have studied this stuff a lot and like to share what I have found ;)

I have the hardest time believing this was ever meant to be taken literally.
yeah, that is why I am still trying to decide what I believe. It is difficult for me to take it literally too, but my studies seem to be leading in that direction.

There are several superchurchs out there. Where is this in the bible?

Possibly all of them if they combine to form one megachurch.

Possibly all of them if they combine to form one megachurch.
Whoa, I just got an awesome mental image of a bunch of churches merging to form a gigantic Voltron-style Jesus. Then Voltron-Jesus started battling Vishnu through the streets of Tokyo.

Whoa, I just got an awesome mental image of a bunch of churches merging to form a gigantic Voltron-style Jesus. Then Voltron-Jesus started battling Vishnu through the streets of Tokyo.

I imagined it more along the lines of Optimus Prime.

It would eventually become a harlot church(as it's described as a harlot riding a beast) after the Rapture.

He is probably speaking about prophecy in Revelation about a huge church that handed over it's leadership to a false prophet.

some believe this is the Catholic church (and that is why all the rumors about certain popes being anti-christs)
some believe it is a protestant church( superchurch theory)

and there are some like me who think that Revelation is mostly symbolic, and the prophecy is best understood when compared to prophecy in the other parts of the Bible.

*sorry to keep answering, but I have studied this stuff a lot and like to share what I have found ;)

No, please answer. I found Revelations to be very weird as a kid and couldn't believe that anyone really understood it. Still don't believe that Christianity understands. I am convinced that it is entirely symbolic. And only truly understood with the return of Christ.

No, please answer. I found Revelations to be very weird as a kid and couldn't believe that anyone really understood it. Still don't believe that Christianity understands. I am convinced that it is entirely symbolic. And only truly understood with the return of Christ.

Well, the way of writing is symbolic(the beast with horns, the four horseman).

No, please answer. I found Revelations to be very weird as a kid and couldn't believe that anyone really understood it. Still don't believe that Christianity understands. I am convinced that it is entirely symbolic. And only truly understood with the return of Christ.
it takes a lot to understand any of it, and there are parts that I still don't understand (maybe I am not meant to)

some day when you are bored try reading Daniel and then go back and read Rev. it will all make a whole lot more sense.

it takes a lot to understand any of it, and there are parts that I still don't understand (maybe I am not meant to)

some day when you are bored try reading Daniel and then go back and read Rev. it will all make a whole lot more sense.

Specifically, the multi-part statue dream.

it takes a lot to understand any of it, and there are parts that I still don't understand (maybe I am not meant to)

some day when you are bored try reading Daniel and then go back and read Rev. it will all make a whole lot more sense.

I have read both books. I remember reading a book about the Tribulations, Rapture etc back in the 60's or 70's and how the beast and was this or that person and it all tied back to the Soviet Union. Then some years later I read something else and they tied to something or someone else. This convinced me that the authors didn't have a clue.

I have read both books. I remember reading a book about the Tribulations, Rapture etc back in the 60's or 70's and how the beast and was this or that person and it all tied back to the Soviet Union. Then some years later I read something else and they tied to something or someone else. This convinced me that the authors didn't have a clue.
I really worry about people who try to trace prophecy back to what they percieve as a problem, they try to hard, I always assumed that one day it would just click, not that you would have to come up with elaborate theories to make it work.

I really worry about people who try to trace prophecy back to what they percieve as a problem, they try to hard, I always assumed that one day it would just click, not that you would have to come up with elaborate theories to make it work.

Yes, I would have to agree with you on that. Then when I read the following I was convinced.

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

(King James Bible, Daniel)

So how many years is: and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half?

I find the study of end time prophecy to be the most useless waste of time possible with the word of God. When it happens it happens and there is nothing you can do about it. Every generation of Christians from Jesus' disciples to us has believed that they are in the unique position of being the last generation. Why would you want to repeat a mistake made by millions of Christians generation after generation? Maybe we are the last generation and maybe we are not. Whether we are or we arent is irrelevant, we need to be focusing on our present ministry rather than on future things beyond our control.

I find the study of end time prophecy to be the most useless waste of time possible with the word of God. When it happens it happens and there is nothing you can do about it. Every generation of Christians from Jesus' disciples to us has believed that they are in the unique position of being the last generation. Why would you want to repeat a mistake made by millions of Christians generation after generation? Maybe we are the last generation and maybe we are not. Whether we are or we arent is irrelevant, we need to be focusing on our present ministry rather than on future things beyond our control.
exactly. that is why I said earlier there are more important things to do with my time.

There are a whole lot of things that need to happen before the world ends, and there is a whole lot of controversy about what those things are.

In fact, I have heard a lot of people who think America is directly involved in the end of the world, but my studies have led me to believe that America either
a. is long gone by then
or
b. a whole lot less important than people realize

because I haven't seen America described at all in any of the prophecy.


Unless babylon or the roman empire is actually used to describe america. I mean america is like ROme in a big bad way. Most by the influence of culture. The romans just didn't conquer militarily, they also did it by culture..Now...go around the world and tell me a place where you don't find tv, mcdonalds, coke, or so on..

Unless babylon or the roman empire is actually used to describe america. I mean america is like ROme in a big bad way. Most by the influence of culture. The romans just didn't conquer militarily, they also did it by culture..Now...go around the world and tell me a place where you don't find tv, mcdonalds, coke, or so on..
could be. I doubt it though, that is kinda like I was talking about people trying to make the prophecy fit what they see as a problem. Many people don't like America (for many reasons) and so they try to fit America into the prophecy. It just doesn't fit though. It takes to much of "well, if they did this," or "if I stretch it to mean this" and it just doesn't work the way I think it should.


but that is just my opinion, not really important.

I find the study of end time prophecy to be the most useless waste of time possible with the word of God. When it happens it happens and there is nothing you can do about it. Every generation of Christians from Jesus' disciples to us has believed that they are in the unique position of being the last generation. Why would you want to repeat a mistake made by millions of Christians generation after generation? Maybe we are the last generation and maybe we are not. Whether we are or we arent is irrelevant, we need to be focusing on our present ministry rather than on future things beyond our control.


Well this generation is like the rest. For one, After a generation of the rebirth of Israel then the end will come. that rebirth was in 1948...think of how long before they pass...two, the temple...yes its not built yet...but from what i understand there seems to excavation around the temple mount(which angers the moslems), I don't know what exactly is going on but yeah. Three, the whole chruch ordeal, Four weapons that can destroy the world..wel obviously the world didn't have that til 1945...so fairly new... five the whole rebirth or israel is propheiszed so much....to much to go on with...six, look at all the natural occurrences that are increasing like the bible states..earthquakes, hurricanes, disease...etc... i mean the us geological survey says that deadly earthquakes are higher then ever..we all see this year's hurrican season, and its not over yet, and what about aids, sars, west nile and most recently Avian Flu....Seven, back to the temple...there has to be a red hefer born right? well that has happned...like in 1999 i think...and with modern cloning...well its now forever possible to have a red hefer for the temple when its built. eight,the mark of the beast...well by 2008 i beleive both the Us and Uk will have national ids to "fight terrorists" i wouldn't be suprised if you couldn't buy and or sell goods without one...like the mark of the beast....see that is feasable becuz we want to stop the bad guys from seeling or buying weapons....ok nine, wars and rumours of wars...well wars are obvious,....what about these rumours of wars...i beleive that to be war on ideals...war on poverty, war on drugs, war on terror....more or less these wars without any front at all...just war on ideas...ten, the ability to spread the gospel worldwide...that comes through tv, internet, the press etc... eleven, the military alliance between Gog and the kings of the east(china)...well gog is russia. and guess what...russia and china have been practiciing military exercizes together..and even still russia is expected to fall to communism again...thus strengthening the bond between the two nations..twelve,the 200,000,000 man army in the east...well china boasts that it can mobilize an army of that high...13, well that huge army is supposed to have to cross over the tigris and euphrates...back then it was not feasible...but with current dams and all it is very possible....14,(last one for right now) the horses with breastplates and could turn their head and spit fir...thats obviously a tanksthen there are the locusts with there deadly stings...could refer to eeither planes and or helicopters...so that modern weaponary..but thats all i can think of right now.. its 8 am and i just woke up...

could be. I doubt it though, that is kinda like I was talking about people trying to make the prophecy fit what they see as a problem. Many people don't like America (for many reasons) and so they try to fit America into the prophecy. It just doesn't fit though. It takes to much of "well, if they did this," or "if I stretch it to mean this" and it just doesn't work the way I think it should.


but that is just my opinion, not really important.


Well thats always true...you always have the date setters and so on...like the jehova's witnesses and what not..i try to at least gather the facts..present adn actually apply them to the world..but why? becuz i wish to warn people...at least my family..so that in case of the pre-trib rapture...then they can realize what is going on and get saved before its too late

Well this generation is like the rest. For one, After a generation of the rebirth of Israel then the end will come. that rebirth was in 1948...think of how long before they pass...two, the temple...yes its not built yet...but from what i understand there seems to excavation around the temple mount(which angers the moslems), I don't know what exactly is going on but yeah. Three, the whole chruch ordeal, Four weapons that can destroy the world..wel obviously the world didn't have that til 1945...so fairly new... five the whole rebirth or israel is propheiszed so much....to much to go on with...six, look at all the natural occurrences that are increasing like the bible states..earthquakes, hurricanes, disease...etc... i mean the us geological survey says that deadly earthquakes are higher then ever..we all see this year's hurrican season, and its not over yet, and what about aids, sars, west nile and most recently Avian Flu....Seven, back to the temple...there has to be a red hefer born right? well that has happned...like in 1999 i think...and with modern cloning...well its now forever possible to have a red hefer for the temple when its built. eight,the mark of the beast...well by 2008 i beleive both the Us and Uk will have national ids to "fight terrorists" i wouldn't be suprised if you couldn't buy and or sell goods without one...like the mark of the beast....see that is feasable becuz we want to stop the bad guys from seeling or buying weapons....ok nine, wars and rumours of wars...well wars are obvious,....what about these rumours of wars...i beleive that to be war on ideals...war on poverty, war on drugs, war on terror....more or less these wars without any front at all...just war on ideas...ten, the ability to spread the gospel worldwide...that comes through tv, internet, the press etc... eleven, the military alliance between Gog and the kings of the east(china)...well gog is russia. and guess what...russia and china have been practiciing military exercizes together..and even still russia is expected to fall to communism again...thus strengthening the bond between the two nations..twelve,the 200,000,000 man army in the east...well china boasts that it can mobilize an army of that high...13, well that huge army is supposed to have to cross over the tigris and euphrates...back then it was not feasible...but with current dams and all it is very possible....14,(last one for right now) the horses with breastplates and could turn their head and spit fir...thats obviously a tanksthen there are the locusts with there deadly stings...could refer to eeither planes and or helicopters...so that modern weaponary..but thats all i can think of right now.. its 8 am and i just woke up...

and every single generation has been able to "fit" their stuff to the prophecy too, you are stretching in many areas. You shouldn't have to stretch, it should all just fit. It doesn't matter anyway, nothing you do can stop it. Why worry about it? Why worry at all? The Bible says many times not to.

Well thats always true...you always have the date setters and so on...like the jehova's witnesses and what not..i try to at least gather the facts..present adn actually apply them to the world..but why? becuz i wish to warn people...at least my family..so that in case of the pre-trib rapture...then they can realize what is going on and get saved before its too late
it isn't your job to warn them. It is God's job to convict them in their hearts. The gospel message is good enough to warrent someone changing their life, scaring them into it isn't ever a good idea. If you are really worried about your family and friends the best thing you can do is pray for them, and pray that your witness is something that will help God.

and every single generation has been able to "fit" their stuff to the prophecy too, you are stretching in many areas. You shouldn't have to stretch, it should all just fit. It doesn't matter anyway, nothing you do can stop it. Why worry about it? Why worry at all? The Bible says many times not to.


the only thing i had to "stretch" was the last one i presented.and maybe the cloning of the red hefer...the rest can easily be seen today... and i worry not for my own sake...but again for those i love and are not believers...i feel if i can present the warning before it happens...then at least it will be on their minds when something does happen

it isn't your job to warn them. It is God's job to convict them in their hearts. The gospel message is good enough to warrent someone changing their life, scaring them into it isn't ever a good idea. If you are really worried about your family and friends the best thing you can do is pray for them, and pray that your witness is something that will help God.

I know that the gospel is the best witness...but who honestly listens to it? they hear it and are like..oh yeah..he was a good guy...if he even existed...but if i can be like well look whats happening...the bible said it would happen just this way...look at prophecy...then i can build a foundation that the bible is true and thus...the story of jesus is true...or at least thats how i see it...to me it seems like more people today base their beleifs on fact..so if i can prove it a fact...or wait...would God want that? would that make loving Him compulsory? by proving Him to exist.... hmmm

the only thing i had to "stretch" was the last one i presented.and maybe the cloning of the red hefer...the rest can easily be seen today... and i worry not for my own sake...but again for those i love and are not believers...i feel if i can present the warning before it happens...then at least it will be on their minds when something does happen
you stretched a lot more than that, but I don't have time to reply to all of it right now because I have to go to church.

Again, the gospel message is sufficient, you shouldn't have to "warn" people. Making reference to prophecy and saying that the end is near, and hurry and get saved before it is too late, is kinda like spiritual blackmail. People shouldn't ever feel pressured or scared into the biggest decision of their lives, that is the type of stuff that cults use to change people (fear, ect.) I prefer to serve God and let him worry about changing people because it isn't my job.

you stretched a lot more than that, but I don't have time to reply to all of it right now because I have to go to church.

Again, the gospel message is sufficient, you shouldn't have to "warn" people. Making reference to prophecy and saying that the end is near, and hurry and get saved before it is too late, is kinda like spiritual blackmail. People shouldn't ever feel pressured or scared into the biggest decision of their lives, that is the type of stuff that cults use to change people (fear, ect.) I prefer to serve God and let him worry about changing people because it isn't my job.


yeah i guess thats true....hmm...so this is where not going to a spirit based chruch has led me...i guess i should go find some new place to go then

If the world ever ends I want to be there to see it. It should be a very nice show...

I know that the gospel is the best witness...but who honestly listens to it? they hear it and are like..oh yeah..he was a good guy...if he even existed...but if i can be like well look whats happening...the bible said it would happen just this way...look at prophecy...then i can build a foundation that the bible is true and thus...the story of jesus is true...or at least thats how i see it...to me it seems like more people today base their beleifs on fact..so if i can prove it a fact...or wait...would God want that? would that make loving Him compulsory? by proving Him to exist.... hmmm
It isn't your job to "prove" God exists. No human can, and we look pretty dumb trying. If someone is truly looking for God, He will show himself to them in a very real way. You don't have control over it, you only have control over yourself. My goal is to serve God and keep his comandments and one of those is......Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature,

That is what I am concerned with, not going around trying to scare the crap out of my friends and family.

If the world ever ends I want to be there to see it. It should be a very nice show...

I'll save a seat for you.

It isn't your job to "prove" God exists. No human can, and we look pretty dumb trying. If someone is truly looking for God, He will show himself to them in a very real way. You don't have control over it, you only have control over yourself. My goal is to serve God and keep his comandments and one of those is......Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature,

That is what I am concerned with, not going around trying to scare the crap out of my friends and family.


Well I haven't always been this way...Just 2 yrs ago i was en route to being a preacher...iwas 16 and have sermons that drew people to the alter....but then the preacher we did have started...well screwing everything over...so i quit church...questioned God on why he allowed such a person lead people astray...but i eventually repented...and then these thoughts came into my head...about false teachers and a lukewarm church...thats where this started...and its really hard to break..i mena once you have an idea planted in your head..its hard to unroot it...but thanks smunkeeville..you showed me the more important part of being a christian...funny how things work out, no?

But really I guess i shouldn't blame my spiritual problems on anyone else but me....dang i hate when this happens..I start to make one point...then i realize im a fool...hehe always happens...darn it

So where does one find the RAPTURE in the Bible? I looked and couldn't find it.
Nowhere. The rapture is often associated with the second coming of the Messiah, so I used that.

If the world ever ends I want to be there to see it. It should be a very nice show...
As long as you don't mind your eyes being burned out of your skull as all illusions are stripped away and you glimpse the unthinkable reality of the universe, it's great.

Well I haven't always been this way...Just 2 yrs ago i was en route to being a preacher...iwas 16 and have sermons that drew people to the alter....but then the preacher we did have started...well screwing everything over...so i quit church...questioned God on why he allowed such a person lead people astray...but i eventually repented...and then these thoughts came into my head...about false teachers and a lukewarm church...thats where this started...and its really hard to break..i mena once you have an idea planted in your head..its hard to unroot it...but thanks smunkeeville..you showed me the more important part of being a christian...funny how things work out, no?
I am glad that you understand what I was saying (sometimes I don't make much sense)
The lukewarm church is something to be worried about, but not because of it's place in Revelation, but because it is harmful to the body of Christ. Lukewarm churches must be fixed from the inside, with a lot of prayer and work.
The main thing you should be concerned about is you, it sounds selfish but it really isn't. Remeber you may be the only Jesus anyone ever sees, if you screw up they will remember it forever. While you are not responisible for what others think of you, you are responsible for how you present yourself, always remember that.

But really I guess i shouldn't blame my spiritual problems on anyone else but me....dang i hate when this happens..I start to make one point...then i realize im a fool...hehe always happens...darn it
It happens to all of us, only some aren't wise enough to admit it;)

Uh uh. I'm still waiting for Santa to deliver me some goodies, but you don't hear me complaing. :p

Sorry, I'll be good. The fact is organized people are collectively crazy. Individuals are fine; a Republican strayed from the herd -for example- will freely admit he think's Bush is a douchebag. Whether we're refering to a groups of Christians or a group of Liberals, they will inevitably spew forth rubbish with amazing tenacity. No one knows why this is, but it just is. Who know's, maybe stupidity loves company. No, it's better summed up in Terry Pratchett's words: "The intelligence mob is the IQ of its stupidest member divided by the number of mobsters".

I just discovered that my Church is doing something wrong and has been doing so for 2000 years…*unless I'm not mistaken, Jesus said not to call anyone your Father… hmm… that doesn't bode well for Your Holiness!

But about the Rapture - I thought that it was just something extrapolated from the Bible by some people… not actually in the Bible at all.

[EDIT/] Date setting for the end times is a pointless exercise… "And none shall know the time nor the place".:)