NationStates Jolt Archive

Click here: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/CIALeak/story?id=1259169

What do you think? Are you happy, sad? Are the Democrats dancing aorund in happy circles?

Click here: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/CIALeak/story?id=1259169

What do you think? Are you happy, sad? Are the Democrats dancing aorund in happy circles?
I'm depressed to know that people in positions of power are so cowardly, petty, and dishonest. I'm glad that Libby is indicted, and that he has resigned. I'm sad that we all know Bush and Cheney were involved in the Plame affair, but that they will never be touched by any of this.

I'm sad that we all know Bush and Cheney were involved in the Plame affair, but that they will never be touched by any of this.

While there's evidence that Cheney may have known, where is the evidence that Bush knew?

Eh?

I'm depressed to know that people in positions of power are so cowardly, petty, and dishonest. I'm glad that Libby is indicted, and that he has resigned. I'm sad that we all know Bush and Cheney were involved in the Plame affair, but that they will never be touched by any of this.
Ditto.

I'm sure there are other investigators, prosecutors and members of Congress who are hoping to use this indictment to open up further inquiries, expanding into the set-up for the Iraq War and the White House's use of supposedly independent journalists as paid propagandists -- Congressman Maurice Hinchey has already been on the news talking about this -- but only time will tell if they get anywhere.

Libby is toast. His reputation is ruined by an indictment that is only collateral to the main investigation. Well, he's in good company with Martha Stewart. Maybe he can have his own TV show if he is convicted and does time. His catch phrase can be "You're Outed!".

Does it bother anyone that Fitz has had two years to pin the espionage crimes on someone, only to fail?

Libby is toast. His reputation is ruined by an indictment that is only collateral to the main investigation. Well, he's in good company with Martha Stewart. Maybe he can have his own TV show if he is convicted and does time. His catch phrase can be "You're Outed!".

Does it bother anyone that Fitz has had two years to pin the espionage crimes on someone, only to fail?

I'm sure it bothers some people on this forum that you were right - he was indicted for the charges that people in Washington DC are commonly hit with here. ;)

i'm always said when someone with the nickname "scooter" is indited... that's just not gotta play well in the big house or even club fed.... he needs to change it to like "chopper" libby or lew "mack truck" libby.

Bad week for Bush. I'm not sure that this indictment will cause significant permanent damage to the Republicans, time and spin have a way of diminishing blemishes.

This won't have the impact on the inner circle that a Rove indictment would have had.

Click here: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/CIALeak/story?id=1259169

What do you think? Are you happy, sad? Are the Democrats dancing aorund in happy circles?

Who cares about this kerfuffle?

What in this world did it affect?

What is the big deal?

I never got it...so this Plame woman got her husband a job---so what?

Not that bad news. As I predicted in a different thread several days ago, the charges all revolve around perjury made in the investigation itself. There are no other charges. So apparently nothing criminal happened beforehand, the only crime was commited after the investigation began.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1259555


No charges about the actual issue at hand, so to speak.

Who cares about this kerfuffle?

What in this world did it affect?

What is the big deal?

I never got it...so this Plame woman got her husband a job---so what?
Oy.

No, dear, this is not about Plame getting her husband a job. This is about senior White House officials outing a covert agent in war time and then committing perjury (among other things) to cover it up. This is about the Bush administration deliberately endangering the lives of government agents so that they could smear Joe Wilson, who, as it turns out, was right about the shenanigans going on with Iraq War intel.

The whole "Plame got her hubby a job" thing was NEVER an issue, that was just a petty diversion that wingnut hacks were trying to use to distract everybody from the treason taking place in the White House.

Click here: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/CIALeak/story?id=1259169

What do you think? Are you happy, sad? Are the Democrats dancing aorund in happy circles?
I tried to read the article, but there was this horrifying ad that had 50 babies with initials on their diapers waving their arms.
Just staring at it, I knew that it was consuming my soul.
Obviously an aspect of the Neo-Con "0MGZ UB3RCON5PIR4CY" that is seeking to make Bush the evil overlord of all mankind and certain types of kittens.

I think that Cat Tribe and others were expecting indictment of Cheney on down on charges more substantial than perjury and obstruction of justice.

I think that's why this thread has been around for a while, but hardly anyone has posted in it.

I sense some disappointment...

to continue the investigation.

Fitzgerald's spokesman, Randall Samborn, said the investigation will continue but with a new grand jury. The term of the current grand jury cannot be extended beyond today.

http://www.wtkr.com/global/story.asp?s=4042769&ClientType=Printable

Look at the charges: perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements. While the Republican spin machine will insist that they aren't "real" crimes, taken together, the charges are indicative of a cover-up. Libby's efforts to obfuscate the investigation into the original allegations simply mean it would take longer for prosecutors to find the evidence necessary to indict on the original "mandate" of the investigation.

Nixon was originally very good at hiding Watergate, too.

As long as the investigation continues, no one in the Bush administration is off the hook.

I can hear the chanting in the background ... Two More Years! Two More Years!

I can hear the chanting in the background ... Two More Years! Two More Years!

Considering how long grand jury investigations take in this town, Bush will be out of office by reaching the natural end of his term before anything comes out.

The way the Yahoo! headlines are changing is entertaining.
"Libbey Indicted" turned into
"Libbey Resigns After Indictment" which became
"Cheney Advisor Resigns After Indictment".

Now tell me again that there's no bias in the MSM.

The way the Yahoo! headlines are changing is entertaining.
"Libbey Indicted" turned into
"Libbey Resigns After Indictment" which became
"Cheney Advisor Resigns After Indictment".

Now tell me again that there's no bias in the MSM.


So, which one of those is biased?

Or untrue?

So, which one of those is biased?

Or untrue?

It's biased when you try to bring Cheney into the title of the story.

The story is about Libby, not Cheney.

Wait until the story is really about Cheney before you try to drag him into the headlines.

So, which one of those is biased?

Or untrue?
Since I have to point it out, I'd say the bias is between #2 and #3. I don't recall ever saying anything about unfactual. They don't come from the NYT or CBS, so I didn't think that was an issue.

While I'm at it, none of those headlines display any spelling errors. None of those headlines exhibit any grammar errors, either. None of the headlines are in any language but English. There a whole slew of things that aren't wrong with those headlines. Just a little covert bias, that's all.

It's biased when you try to bring Cheney into the title of the story.

The story is about Libby, not Cheney.

Wait until the story is really about Cheney before you try to drag him into the headlines.


Cheney IS named in the text of the indictment, and the description of Libby's position is apt.

Interesting. Ok, Libby has been indicted. So who'll be next on the list? I bet you odds, that no one else gets indicted and apparently, Cheney had nothing to do with this.

Anyone interested in hearing from Wilson's Lawyer?

Cheney IS named in the text of the indictment, and the description of Libby's position is apt.
Show me where Cheney is named in the indictment. Here's (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801086.html)the text I read.

Interesting. Ok, Libby has been indicted. So who'll be next on the list? I bet you odds, that no one else gets indicted and apparently, Cheney had nothing to do with this.

Anyone interested in hearing from Wilson's Lawyer?
Fitz is going to have two more years and a new Grand Jury from which to coax another perjury indictment. I'm sure he'll manage to get at least two indictments in four years. The man isn't a slacker, just an honest lawyer doing the people's business.

Show me where Cheney is named in the indictment. Here's (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801086.html)the text I read.


"9. On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."


You DO know who the VP is right?

welp

scooter resigned.

"9. On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."


You DO know who the VP is right?

No idea what being named in an indictment is huh? Maybe you would be better off lurking?

Oh, the tragedy. We've forgotten about the poor Ms/Mrs Plame/Wilson, oh hell, we'll just call her Val.

Turns out she doesn't think she will fit in at the CIA after all this is over.

Lost in the din of the leak scandal that has consumed Washington is the very personal impact on the gracious, willowy CIA operative at its center. Plame, the wife of former U.S. ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and arguably the most famous spy in the world, is not likely to stay at the CIA, some acquaintances say.

With her career derailed, Plame, 42, the mother of 5-year-old twins, hasn't publicly signaled her plans. But privately she has said that she feels she has no future at the spy agency where she has worked for 20 years.

What are the odds that the CIA doesn't want her around any more?

No idea what being named in an indictment is huh? Maybe you would be better off lurking?


If that is directed at me, please scroll up and read what I said carefully... which - to repeat it - was that "Cheney IS named in the text of the indictment, and the description of Libby's position is apt." when pointing out that a headline that stated "Cheney Advisor Resigns After Indictment" was not indicitive of bias given that a) that was indeed Libby's job, and b) Cheney is named in the indictment as the source of the information of Plame's employment.


So, maybe you'd be the one better off lurking, or reading the thread before commenting.

Oh, the tragedy. We've forgotten about the poor Ms/Mrs Plame/Wilson, oh hell, we'll just call her Val.

Turns out she doesn't think she will fit in at the CIA after all this is over.

What are the odds that the CIA doesn't want her around any more?
All crimes are subjective. If no one cares it happened, it isn't a crime!

Oh, the tragedy. We've forgotten about the poor Ms/Mrs Plame/Wilson, oh hell, we'll just call her Val.

Turns out she doesn't think she will fit in at the CIA after all this is over.

What are the odds that the CIA doesn't want her around any more?


Wow. Now THAT is rich.

An experienced and trusted covert op gets her career ruined for political gain, and you still want to heap scorn upon her for it as if she should be looked down on for it?


You, sir, take the cake.

Libby is toast. His reputation is ruined by an indictment that is only collateral to the main investigation. Well, he's in good company with Martha Stewart. Maybe he can have his own TV show if he is convicted and does time. His catch phrase can be "You're Outed!".

Does it bother anyone that Fitz has had two years to pin the espionage crimes on someone, only to fail?

The investigation is not over.

You should read the indictment. Fitz has pinned the leaks, in part, on Libby.

While there's evidence that Cheney may have known, where is the evidence that Bush knew?

Eh?

Yeah, Bush doesn't know ANYTHING... how could he possibly have known about this? :P

Click here: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/CIALeak/story?id=1259169

What do you think? Are you happy, sad? Are the Democrats dancing aorund in happy circles?

I am sad that this whole fiasco happened. This is not a day of celebration. It is a day of shame.

BTW, let us not forget to give Libby the benefit of the presumption of innocence regarding any crime.

According to the AP, Val was not working as a covert agent. Once at a desk job, as far as I know, you'll never be a covert agent again. Your cover is blown by walking through the front door at Langley.

"Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said." -AP

While there's evidence that Cheney may have known, where is the evidence that Bush knew?

Eh?

Good question.

Better question: how do I get my steak dinner? :D

According to the AP, Val was not working as a covert agent. Once at a desk job, as far as I know, you'll never be a covert agent again. Your cover is blown by walking through the front door at Langley.

"Wilson acknowledged his wife was no longer in an undercover job at the time Novak's column first identified her. "My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," he said." -AP

From the indictment:

Joseph Wilson was married to Valerie Plame Wilson (“Valerie Wilson”). At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson’s affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community.

I think that Cat Tribe and others were expecting indictment of Cheney on down on charges more substantial than perjury and obstruction of justice.

I think that's why this thread has been around for a while, but hardly anyone has posted in it.

I sense some disappointment...


Bullshit.

You predicted no indictments at all.

I expected Libby and/or Rove and/or others to be indicted. I certainly didn't expect Cheney to be indicted.

I've been busy with other things today.

You owe me a steak dinner, right?

At MSNBC, an AP wire story notes a simple fact, buried amidst heaps of hyperbole.

In the end, Fitzgerald accused Libby of lying about his conversations with reporters, not outing a spy.

They spent two years and millions of dollars to come up with this.

Now, onto media bias:

All three networks interrupted their broadcasts to carry Fitzgerald’s press conference live. Hmm. I wonder what other historical events were considered important enough to interrupt commercial broadcasts?

Pearl Harbor Under Attack
John Glenn Orbits Earth
Martin Luther King Jr. Assassinated
Nixon Resigns
Iran Hostage Crisis
Berlin Wall Crumbles
Rodney King Verdicts Incite Riots
The 2000 Election

And now Lying about talking to reporters. Yay us.

At MSNBC, an AP wire story notes a simple fact, buried amidst heaps of hyperbole.



They spent two years and millions of dollars to come up with this.

Now, onto media bias:

All three networks interrupted their broadcasts to carry Fitzgerald’s press conference live. Hmm. I wonder what other historical events were considered important enough to interrupt commercial broadcasts?

Pearl Harbor Under Attack
John Glenn Orbits Earth
Martin Luther King Jr. Assassinated
Nixon Resigns
Iran Hostage Crisis
Berlin Wall Crumbles
Rodney King Verdicts Incite Riots
The 2000 Election

And now Lying about talking to reporters. Yay us.

Yeah, endangering national security, feh, who cares eh?

Yeah, endangering national security, feh, who cares eh?
Um... No. In what way did it endanger national security? Please elaborate... and use facts, not hyperbole.

At MSNBC, an AP wire story notes a simple fact, buried amidst heaps of hyperbole.



They spent two years and millions of dollars to come up with this.

Now, onto media bias:

All three networks interrupted their broadcasts to carry Fitzgerald’s press conference live. Hmm. I wonder what other historical events were considered important enough to interrupt commercial broadcasts?

Pearl Harbor Under Attack
John Glenn Orbits Earth
Martin Luther King Jr. Assassinated
Nixon Resigns
Iran Hostage Crisis
Berlin Wall Crumbles
Rodney King Verdicts Incite Riots
The 2000 Election

And now Lying about talking to reporters. Yay us.
You've artifitially implied a high bar for interupted broadcasts, when in reality broadcasts are interupted for all kinds of crazy crap like low speed chases. This hardly demonstrates what you're trying to.

At MSNBC, an AP wire story notes a simple fact, buried amidst heaps of hyperbole.

They spent two years and millions of dollars to come up with this.


Read the indictment. (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/images/10/28/indictment.pdf) There is a bit more to it.

Among other things it says, Libby was a source of the leak -- whether or not he violated the law in leaking per se.

Also, from the DOJ press release (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/images/10/28/statement.pdf):

Senior White House official I. Lewis Libby was indicted today on obstruction of justice, false statement and perjury charges for allegedly lying about how and when in 2003 he learned and subsequently disclosed to reporters then-classified information concerning the employment of Valerie Wilson by the Central Intelligence Agency.


Now, onto media bias:

All three networks interrupted their broadcasts to carry Fitzgerald’s press conference live. Hmm. I wonder what other historical events were considered important enough to interrupt commercial broadcasts?

Pearl Harbor Under Attack
John Glenn Orbits Earth
Martin Luther King Jr. Assassinated
Nixon Resigns
Iran Hostage Crisis
Berlin Wall Crumbles
Rodney King Verdicts Incite Riots
The 2000 Election

And now Lying about talking to reporters. Yay us.

Bullshit. They interrupt regular programming all the time now.

Also the indictment of a sitting senior White House official is a very historic event. I'm not sure I heard right or it was true, but I believe CNN said this was the first time in 130 years this has happened.

You've artifitially implied a high bar for interupted broadcasts, when in reality broadcasts are interupted for all kinds of crazy crap like low speed chases. This hardly demonstrates what you're trying to.
But all 3? Simultaneously? I don't even think they did that for OJ.

Um... No. In what way did it endanger national security? Please elaborate... and use facts, not hyperbole.

Well in general, exposing members of your secret services robs you of any field use they have, also, any contacts they have are put at risk if the enemy can make any links in the chain.

Plus it's generally a bad thing when personal vendettas are carried on like this. Makes the US look really stupid to everyone else.

Um... No. In what way did it endanger national security? Please elaborate... and use facts, not hyperbole.

There is a reason Ms. Plame's status was classified. It was for national security.

George Bush Senior said that leadking the identity of a CIA employee was tantamount to treason.

Also, from the DOJ press release:

Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson’s employment status was classified. Prior to that date, her affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community. Disclosure of classified information about an individual’s employment by the CIA has the potential to damage the national security in ways that range from preventing that individual’s future use in a covert capacity, to compromising intelligence-gathering methods and operations, and endangering the safety of CIA employees and those who deal with them, the indictment states.

They spent two years and millions of dollars to come up with this.


Ughh. That was a stupid thing to say when the democrats said it on Clinton's behalf, and it is a stupid thing to say now.

I, for one, have no problem in millions of dollars being spent in government oversight. Hell spend more; it's probably only a fraction of the White House Catering budget in any case.

The way the Yahoo! headlines are changing is entertaining.
"Libbey Indicted" turned into
"Libbey Resigns After Indictment" which became
"Cheney Advisor Resigns After Indictment".

Now tell me again that there's no bias in the MSM.
By all that's hale and holy, you think THAT shows bias? That is doing nothing more than informing people who the hell Libbey IS, a function that the press does repeatedly to people ya'd think everyone would know. (Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve chairman, or Actor Tom Cruise, or, hell, US president George W. Bush). Libbey was Cheney's advisor, the headline makes perfect sense.

So what would be a non biased headline for ya?

Libbey resigns after mean man makes false claims?

Now, onto media bias:

All three networks interrupted their broadcasts to carry Fitzgerald’s press conference live. Hmm. I wonder what other historical events were considered important enough to interrupt commercial broadcasts?

Pearl Harbor Under Attack
John Glenn Orbits Earth
Martin Luther King Jr. Assassinated
Nixon Resigns
Iran Hostage Crisis
Berlin Wall Crumbles
Rodney King Verdicts Incite Riots
The 2000 Election

And now Lying about talking to reporters. Yay us.
Well, I DO seem to recall the networks breaking in with Ken Starr reports reguarly, and that was lying about getting a blow job.

Poor conservatives, after that big hoopla about Clinton committing perjury and obstruction of justice, after all that rhetoric about how the administration of George W Bush was going to restore honesty to Washington... now forced to repeat the messages the Dems did all those years back.

This is why politics disgusts me.

Good to hear that someone is possibly getting punished for this in one way or another. But Cat is right - lets not presume guilt before a final ruling.

But all 3?
Yes.
Simultaneously?
Are you infering it would be less bias if some of them interupted their broadcast with a tape delay of the press confrence?
I don't even think they did that for OJ.
I wouldn't bet on it.

The investigation is not over.

You should read the indictment. Fitz has pinned the leaks, in part, on Libby.
I did, but it looks like Libby is the only one that's got to make bail. And for lying, not for violations of the espionage/security laws that prompted the investigation in the first place. So the investigation created the crimes, so to speak.

Now, if this were such an easy case to make, why does Fitz need another Grand Jury and two more years to figure it out? Sure, I already know the answer to that. Because everybody is lying to him. And because of the incredible stone-walling from the Administration.

I did, but it looks like Libby is the only one that's got to make bail. And for lying, not for violations of the espionage/security laws that prompted the investigation in the first place. So the investigation created the crimes, so to speak.

If you read the indictment as you claim, then you know that Libby is alleged to have leaked classified information. And then he lied about it to everyone. It is not uncommon for the original crime to be overshadowed by the cover-up.

As for "the investigation created the crimes," did you believe this exonerated Clinton? All perjurers?

If Libby had nothing to hide, why did he lie? Perhaps if he had told the truth, he'd be charged directly with an IIPA or Espionage Act violation. With him lying, they may not have a strong enough case on those counts.

Again, the investigation is not over.

Now, if this were such an easy case to make, why does Fitz need another Grand Jury and two more years to figure it out? Sure, I already know the answer to that. Because everybody is lying to him. And because of the incredible stone-walling from the Administration.

You knew the answer.

Remember they had to go to court many times over executive privilege and over the journalists that wouldn't testify. Miller just barely agreed to talk and she is one that really hurts Libby.

Further, if the indictment is true, then Libby's lying itself has delayed and hindered the investigation.

Rove is said to still be a target of the investigation.

It ain't over until it is over.

(And federal investigations and grand juries sometimes run for several years, so don't get your knickers in a twist over this one investigation. I know of cases where the investigation took a decade.)

The indictment clearly states that Plame's identity was indeed classified at the time of the leak. That kills the "she wasn't covert!" spin.

Roves lawyers indicate that Rove isn't out of the woods yet. The investigation is ongoing.

Any dirty laundry will be aired in open court. The trial is going to be veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting.

The Repuiblican spin machine will be putting out enough power to light a mid-size town.

As for "the investigation created the crimes," did you believe this exonerated Clinton? All perjurers?

As I recall, the main focus of the investigation against Clinton was the perjury and obstruction related to testimony given about Paula Jones. The crimes weren't incidental to the investigation, they were the basis of it. And the crimes clearly denied the day in court that she was due.

This is more like Martha Stewart. There wasn't enough evidence to try her on the securities charges, so she was indicted for lying about her involvement in it.

Unfortunately, this prosecutor decided to save face with an indictment that is going to result in a trial where reporters testify against politicians and politicians deny the testimony of the reporters. All paragons of virtue, huh?

As I recall, the main focus of the investigation against Clinton was the perjury and obstruction related to testimony given about Paula Jones. The crimes weren't incidental to the investigation, they were the basis of it. And the crimes clearly denied the day in court that she was due.

This is more like Martha Stewart. There wasn't enough evidence to try her on the securities charges, so she was indicted for lying about her involvement in it.

Unfortunately, this prosecutor decided to save face with an indictment that is going to result in a trial where reporters testify against politicians and politicians deny the testimony of the reporters. All paragons of virtue, huh?

I'm sure they'll be plenty of nice indisputable documentary evidence as well. This trial should be fun to watch. I hope it gets the OJ/Michael Jackson treatment. Ah, the dirty laundry that will be flapping in the wind, skidmarks and all.

But I'm sure none of it will measure up to a BJ. :rolleyes:

Plus the investigation is ongoing.

For revealing Plame's name to be a crime, according to Victoria Toensing, former deputy assistant attorney general who helped draft the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the "secret agent" would've had to have been overseas undercover within the past five years, and the "leaker" would've had to know that and intentionally reveal it.

In her husband Joe Wilson's book, "The Politics of Truth," he writes that he and his future wife returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse was again stationed overseas, according to him. Six years later, in July 2003, columnist Robert Novak revealed Plame's identity as a CIA employee.

Looks like the engine's stalled on Libby's "Scooter".

The whole "Plame got her hubby a job" thing was NEVER an issue, that was just a petty diversion that wingnut hacks were trying to use to distract everybody from the treason taking place in the White House.
Bottle, no charges were made that weren't indicative of crimes commited during the investigation. How the fuck does that qualify as treason?

The indictment clearly states that Plame's identity was indeed classified at the time of the leak. That kills the "she wasn't covert!" spin.
When I was in the Service, my JOB was Classified, but I sure as hell wasn't covert.... and that WAS overseas. There is a BIG difference between having a Classified Job and being a Covert Operative.

Unfortunately, this prosecutor decided to save face with an indictment that is going to result in a trial where reporters testify against politicians and politicians deny the testimony of the reporters. All paragons of virtue, huh?
Here is where I agree with those paragons of Conservatisim Steve and Cokie Roberts. This is a BAD thing all the way around. Thye rightly feel that this will not only chill the flow of information between staffers and the press, but freeze it all together.

Think about it. No more Deep Throats.

Remember, one Party's Whistle Blower os another's "Leaker".

As I recall, the main focus of the investigation against Clinton was the perjury and obstruction related to testimony given about Paula Jones. The crimes weren't incidental to the investigation, they were the basis of it. And the crimes clearly denied the day in court that she was due.

This is more like Martha Stewart. There wasn't enough evidence to try her on the securities charges, so she was indicted for lying about her involvement in it.

Unfortunately, this prosecutor decided to save face with an indictment that is going to result in a trial where reporters testify against politicians and politicians deny the testimony of the reporters. All paragons of virtue, huh?

Your memory is conveniently wrong. Ken Star was investigating Clinton for WHITEWATER and instead came up with perjury charges related to Paula Jones. (And, Clinton, was never actually charged with anything.)

When the main players decide to lie about their involvement in crimes, it is often easier to prove that they are lying than that they committed the crimes. People thus get charged with perjury all the time in big cases.

You have nothing to whine about here.

For revealing Plame's name to be a crime, according to Victoria Toensing, former deputy assistant attorney general who helped draft the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the "secret agent" would've had to have been overseas undercover within the past five years, and the "leaker" would've had to know that and intentionally reveal it.

In her husband Joe Wilson's book, "The Politics of Truth," he writes that he and his future wife returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse was again stationed overseas, according to him. Six years later, in July 2003, columnist Robert Novak revealed Plame's identity as a CIA employee.

Ms. Toensing is a well-known right-wing hack. We've been over this argument a dozen times.

Regardless, revealing Plame's name could be a crime under several statutes other than the IIPA.

The investigation is ongoing.

(BTW, I love how you ignore that you were wrong about their being no indictments and ignore the crimes that are alleged and focus on what wasn't alleged ... yet.)

Ms. Toensing is a well-known right-wing hack. We've been over this argument a dozen times.

Regardless, revealing Plame's name could be a crime under several statutes other than the IIPA.

The investigation is ongoing.

(BTW, I love how you ignore that you were wrong about their being no indictments and ignore the crimes that are alleged and focus on what wasn't alleged ... yet.)

Not to mention that Sierra has been informed several times that the IIPA isn't the only classified information statute out there, and yet he keeps repeating the same drivel. Apparently citing US law is not a good enough source for him when discussing US law...

Either that, or he's like the guy from Memento.

The best part of all this is how it is hurting Bush's image in general. No matter what we may yell back and forth at each other here and how this all unravels, Bush is going to have as much trouble as Clinton did in his last years in office, if not more.

The best part of all this is how it is hurting Bush's image in general. No matter what we may yell back and forth at each other here and how this all unravels, Bush is going to have as much trouble as Clinton did in his last years in office, if not more.

Imagine if the Democratic party was as fractured then as the Republicans are now. Clinton might have been removed from office. Not having the votes to confirm a Supreme Court Justice when your own party controls Congress...tsk, tsk, tsk.

I think the Republicans, as a whole, think right now is as bad as it can get. Nothing more can possibly go wrong in this country. Mark my words, it will, and it will give me no satisfaction. Quite the opposite. The Republican party, quite literally, is ruining this country more definitively than their cumulative complaints about all other points of views put together. My only comfort is that I won't be alone in my misery for the next 3 years.

Imagine if the Democratic party was as fractured then as the Republicans are now. Clinton might have been removed from office. Not having the votes to confirm a Supreme Court Justice when your own party controls Congress...tsk, tsk, tsk.

I think the Republicans, as a whole, think right now is as bad as it can get. Nothing more can possibly go wrong in this country. Mark my words, it will, and it will give me no satisfaction. Quite the opposite. The Republican party, quite literally, is ruining this country more definitively than their cumulative complaints about all other points of views put together. My only comfort is that I won't be alone in my misery for the next 3 years.
Maybe some idealist will come up from the ranks and right all the wron....
Yeah, nevermind.
Misery.

It always astounds me how some people try and draw the Clinton equivalence.

As if a huge investigation into a land deal from before taking office that segues into a witch hunt that finally settles on a marital infidelity to get him with can in any way be compared to outing an active CIA agent and her cover corporation (the extent to which this damaged other agents has never been discussed for security reasons) in order to exact political retribution during a time of war.

Oh yes, those are soooooooooooooo similar!

What do they hide behind? Technicalities.

Was she overseas in the past few years? Who cares! Blowing her blew every contact she ever made which presumably still were available to active agents. And she was working in WMD proliferation in the Middle East - the very focus of this administration.

This was thuggery, pure and simple. Cross us and we go after your family.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If someone had blown OSS assets in WWII, they would have been taken out and shot!

But oh yes, this is just the same as someone not wanting to admit to a blowjob.....:rolleyes:

This thread is so sparse because there are few who are willing to stick their neck out to the ridiculous length it takes to defend Libby.

... we all know Bush and Cheney were involved in the Plame affair, but that they will never be touched by any of this.
No .... we don't "all know" this. :headbang:

No .... we don't "all know" this. :headbang:

You're right. We don't "know" they were involved. Just like we don't "know" that OJ did it.

Nice article in Wilson's own words.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-wilson29oct29,1,5237501.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

You're right. We don't "know" they were involved. Just like we don't "know" that OJ did it.

Nice article in Wilson's own words.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-wilson29oct29,1,5237501.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
I think this is the same article, but you don't have to register to anything.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/attempt-to-silence-is-the-ultimate-crime/2005/10/30/1130607146868.html

This one should also interest you:
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e4235c78-497b-11da-8686-0000779e2340.html

This thread is so sparse because there are few who are willing to stick their neck out to the ridiculous length it takes to defend Libby.
I think we've all had our say and we're just laying in supplies to wait out the next two years for the next perjury indictment.

17 cases of Bourbon -- check.

I think we've all had our say and we're just laying in supplies to wait out the next two years for the next perjury indictment.

17 cases of Bourbon -- check.


I bet another indictment comes down in the next 6 months.

Bush's approval is below 40%.
I can't believe he has approval LEFT after the crap that's come up lately.
This is why I hate the American system... you have die hard Republicans and die hard Democrats, and they NEVER waver, no matter what.
You guys need more major parties to try to tone down the crazy black and white thinking thing going on down there.
People I've talked to around here are hoping that Bush gets indicted soon. That would be nice.
Although, if his approval gets much lower, I'm going to bet on a disgruntled American shooting him in the head.

I bet another indictment comes down in the next 6 months.

I'll take that bet.

there.
People I've talked to around here are hoping that Bush gets indicted soon. That would be nice.
Although, if his approval gets much lower, I'm going to bet on a disgruntled American shooting him in the head.

I can tell you that Bush won't be indicted.