NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a question concerning pi. 3,1415927.....and so forth.

I've heard that pi has an infinite amount of numbers. Here's the question:

Think of seconds. You count 1...2...3.... You are waiting to jump of a cliff after excactly 3,1415927.... seconds. But if pi have an infinite amount of numbers how can you ever count to that? And when you can't count to that then time can't exist. And yet you can keep counting 4...5....6....

Now I'm not sure if anyone can understand this question but it's difficult to explain it different.

Your incapability to count to some figure has nothing to do with it's existance.

If you were a vegetable and couldn't count three apples, does that mean three apples couldn't exist?

Your incapability to count to some figure has nothing to do with it's existance.

If you were a vegetable and couldn't count three apples, does that mean three apples couldn't exist?
That makes me think of: If a tree falls in the wood and nobody hear it, does it still make a sound? Anyways how can you jump at 3,1415927..... seconds when you can't count to it?

Your thinking about it is wrong. It's not that it doesn't exist, it's that it ALWAYS exists. Just as time always continues on, so does Pi.

Just because something has no finite end doesn't mean it doesn't exist, otherwise you and I aren't here, b/c the universe in which we live doesn't end.

Your thinking about it is wrong. It's not that it doesn't exist, it's that it ALWAYS exists. Just as time always continues on, so does Pi.

Just because something has no finite end doesn't mean it doesn't exist, otherwise you and I aren't here, b/c the universe in which we live doesn't end.
But how would we know that the universe and the time hasn't already ended?
Perhaps we're just reliving history?

But how would we know that the universe and the time hasn't already ended?
Perhaps we're just reliving history?

Perhaps. Can I choose a different history to re-live?

That question reminds me of the mathematical paradox of Agamemnon and the turtle (I think it was Agamemnon, don't fry me if it was somebody else).

Agamemnon was one of the fastest runners in the antique world, but a mathematician at one point came up with the mathematical proof that he couldn't even outrun a turtle if it had a head start of 100 meters:

He assumed that Agamemnon would run twice as fast as the turtle (to keep the calcuation simple). Now, in the time that Agamemnon covered the 100 meters, the turtle would have moved 50 meters. When Agamemnon ran those 50 meters, the turtle would be another 25 meters ahead. When Agamemnon ran those, the turtle would be 12.5 meters ahead. After the 12.5 meters, the turtle would be ahead by 6.25 meters. After that, by 3.125 meters, then by 1.5625 meters, then by 0.78... meters, then 0.39... meters...... the distance between the two would get infinitesimally small, but Agamemnon would never reach the turtle, let alone overtake it.

Just goes to show that maths is useless in real life.

Just goes to show that maths is useless in real life.


- the only response that matters thus far in this thread :headbang:

I have a question concerning pi. 3,1415927.....and so forth.

I've heard that pi has an infinite amount of numbers. Here's the question:

Think of seconds. You count 1...2...3.... You are waiting to jump of a cliff after excactly 3,1415927.... seconds. But if pi have an infinite amount of numbers how can you ever count to that? And when you can't count to that then time can't exist. And yet you can keep counting 4...5....6....

Now I'm not sure if anyone can understand this question but it's difficult to explain it different.

Repeat after me: One, two, three, pi, FOUR!

Pi is a number. Its value lies between 3 and 4, and it does have a very large (maybe infinite) number of decimal places, but that doesn't alter its place in the order of numbers.

Repeat after me: One, two, three, pi, FOUR!

Pi is a number. Its value lies between 3 and 4, and it does have a very large (maybe infinite) number of decimal places, but that doesn't alter its place in the order of numbers.
Does that mean that there is other numbers with infinite ciffers?

yes

1/3 for example

While we're playing around with numbers, I'll get my old little game out myself:

1 = (-1)² = sqrt((-1)²) = sqrt(-1*-1) = sqrt(-1)*sqrt(-1) = i*i = i² = -1
Therefore, 1 = -1.

If you were going to argue whether a number can actually exist, I'd suggest concentrating on "i". That is something few if any people can actually imagine in their minds.

Does that mean that there is other numbers with infinite ciffers?
e

Does that mean that there is other numbers with infinite ciffers?
Yes - almost all of them. The integers form a tiny fraction of all numbers.

He assumed that Agamemnon would run twice as fast as the turtle (to keep the calcuation simple). Now, in the time that Agamemnon covered the 100 meters, the turtle would have moved 50 meters. When Agamemnon ran those 50 meters, the turtle would be another 25 meters ahead. When Agamemnon ran those, the turtle would be 12.5 meters ahead. After the 12.5 meters, the turtle would be ahead by 6.25 meters. After that, by 3.125 meters, then by 1.5625 meters, then by 0.78... meters, then 0.39... meters...... the distance between the two would get infinitesimally small, but Agamemnon would never reach the turtle, let alone overtake it.

Just goes to show that maths is useless in real life.
Actually it shows that most people are too stupid to do mathematics. :-) You've only considered what happens before they get to 200m (at which point Agamemnon overtakes the tortoise). This is a standard example in Analysis, teaching people to check whether a series is convergent or divergent.

yes

1/3 for example
Oh yeah.... How did I forget? :headbang: Stupid stupid stupid me!!:headbang:

That question reminds me of the mathematical paradox of Agamemnon and the turtle (I think it was Agamemnon, don't fry me if it was somebody else).

Agamemnon was one of the fastest runners in the antique world, but a mathematician at one point came up with the mathematical proof that he couldn't even outrun a turtle if it had a head start of 100 meters:

He assumed that Agamemnon would run twice as fast as the turtle (to keep the calcuation simple). Now, in the time that Agamemnon covered the 100 meters, the turtle would have moved 50 meters. When Agamemnon ran those 50 meters, the turtle would be another 25 meters ahead. When Agamemnon ran those, the turtle would be 12.5 meters ahead. After the 12.5 meters, the turtle would be ahead by 6.25 meters. After that, by 3.125 meters, then by 1.5625 meters, then by 0.78... meters, then 0.39... meters...... the distance between the two would get infinitesimally small, but Agamemnon would never reach the turtle, let alone overtake it.

Just goes to show that maths is useless in real life.
No. It shows that mathematicians are useless in real life.

No. It shows that mathematicians are useless in real life.
No - it shows most people are not intelligent enough to be able to see when a 'proof' has obvious flaws. Mathematicians love mocking these people by creating 'proofs' that 1=2, all triangles are isoceles, and so on.

No - it shows most people are not intelligent enough to be able to see when a 'proof' has obvious flaws. Mathematicians love mocking these people by creating 'proofs' that 1=2, all triangles are isoceles, and so on.
1=2??? Explain...

1=2??? Explain...
Marvel at my mathematical wizardry:

1) a = b (Staring assumption)
2) a^2 = ab
3) a^2 + a^2 = a^2 + ab
4) 2a^2 = a^2 + ab
5) 2a^2 - 2ab = a^2 - ab
6) 2(a^2 -ab) = a^2 -ab
7) 2=1

QED

(The flaw is that by (1) (a^2 - ab) is 0, so you can't divide through by it to get (7))

Marvel at my mathematical wizardry:

1) a = b (Staring assumption)
2) a^2 = ab
3) a^2 + a^2 = a^2 + ab
4) 2a^2 = a^2 + ab
5) 2a^2 - 2ab = a^2 - ab
6) 2(a^2 -ab) = a^2 -ab
7) 2=1

QED

(The flaw is that by (1) (a^2 - ab) is 0, so you can't divide through by it to get (7))
Wow I'll show that to my math teacher...

That question reminds me of the mathematical paradox of Agamemnon and the turtle (I think it was Agamemnon, don't fry me if it was somebody else).

Achilles, and it was a tortoise.

Wow I'll show that to my math teacher...
If they're any good they'll already have seen it. It's probably the most famous non-proof, and experienced mathematicians rapidly get bored of young 'uns showing them it...

Wow I'll show that to my math teacher...
Don't forget my trick on page 1....:(

I feel so unappreciated right now ;)

...experienced mathematicians rapidly get bored of young 'uns showing them it...
Find me a maths teacher at high school who actually gives half a shit about mathematics.

Find me a maths teacher at high school who actually gives half a shit about mathematics.
I went to a school with decent maths teachers. One of them had three degrees (source of many jokes).

Achilles, and it was a tortoise.

Ah, well... same war, anyway ;)

Ah, well... same war, anyway ;)

Whatever !!! :(