NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p67.htm

(Well I thought it was funny).

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/einstein12345.jpg

Rock on!

I think someone posted the Onion article about 'Intelligent Falling' before. Anyway, yes, gravity is only a theory.

A theory that happens to be right.

Heh that's good.

I think someone posted the Onion article about 'Intelligent Falling' before. Anyway, yes, gravity is only a theory.

A theory that happens to be right.
Hah, thats what you think.
*Opens conveniently situated 2nd story window*
I'll bet you've never even tested it personall!
*Steps out window*
See, not only can I just rest here, but I can po-
*Hits ground below*
Pain . . .

Remember Boys and Girls, don't drink and post.

Hah, thats what you think.
*Opens conveniently situated 2nd story window*
I'll bet you've never even tested it personall!
*Steps out window*
See, not only can I just rest here, but I can po-
*Hits ground below*
Pain . . .

Remember Boys and Girls, don't post.

Funny guy.

Aaanyway, I don't really get the whole 'only a theory' thing. A theory is quite 'big' or 'important'; it's more substantiated than a belief. If I ever developed a theory, I'd be quite proud. (For example, the Gruenberg Principle is at the moment still just a hypothesis.)

You see, this is EXACTLY what is wrong with Evolutionist and ID arguments.

Big funny link, but it's premise is actually true and the author of the site doesn't even get his own joke.

We (and that means you too) don't know what gravity is. We know what it does, we know how to measure it and predict it and use it to measure other things, and this is EXACTLY like the evidence of change between generations and the developments of change in genetics (what we call Evolution evidence, for example) we can see that 'something' is going on, something is doing this and we can measure it and predict it and use it, but we don't actually 'know' what is doing it.

Back to gravity. We have at least two major competing theories as to 'why' we have gravity. It could be an undiscovered substance we can called gravitons, OR it might be caused by the absence of space itself (the theorem Einstein proposed) meaning that a lack of 'space' is created by mass and creates a hole in the fabric of space that causes other objects (other holes of mass) to move around each other in a straight lines that look like the shape of a curve.

We do NOT know if either theory of gravity is right. We haven’t been able to rule either theory out yet. In essence, we do NOT know what gravity is.

Gravity, we know what it does, we just don't know why it is. This is EXACTLY the same as evolutionary theory. We see what is happening, we can measure it and use it, but we do NOT know why it is.

When people think they know what they are talking about they tend to run off and make websites like the one linked to up there. :rolleyes:

Okay, smarty pants, what causes gravity? What causes genetic change?

You see, this is EXACTLY what is wrong with Evolutionist and ID arguments.

Big funny link, but it's premise is actually true and the author of the site doesn't even get his own joke.

We (and that means you too) don't know what gravity is. We know what it does, we know how to measure it and predict it and use it to measure other things, and this is EXACTLY like the evidence of change between generations and the developments of change in genetics (what we call Evolution evidence, for example) we can see that 'something' is going on, something is doing this and we can measure it and predict it and use it, but we don't actually 'know' what is doing it.

Back to gravity. We have at least two major competing theories as to 'why' we have gravity. It could be an undiscovered substance we can called gravitons, OR it might be caused by the absence of space itself (the theorem Einstein proposed) meaning that a lack of 'space' is created by mass and creates a hole in the fabric of space that causes other objects (other holes of mass) to move around each other in a straight lines that look like the shape of a curve.

We do NOT know if either theory of gravity is right. We haven’t been able to rule either theory out yet. In essence, we do NOT know what gravity is.

Gravity, we know what it does, we just don't know why it is. This is EXACTLY the same as evolutionary theory. We see what is happening, we can measure it and use it, but we do NOT know why it is.

When people think they know what they are talking about they tend to run off and make websites like the one linked to up there. :rolleyes:

Okay, smarty pants, what causes gravity? What causes genetic change?
Is this a put on?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity

Okay, smarty pants, what causes gravity? What causes genetic change?

Don't they have schools where you live?

You're absolutely right! I can fly! *ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*

You're absolutely right! I can fly! *ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*

Something being a theory doesn't mean it's wrong.

Something being a theory doesn't mean it's wrong.
Yes, but it needed to be tested.

Don't they have schools where you live?

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.
I will. Gravitons and mutations. I win.

Is this a put on?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity


Skip down to the bottom... Quantum mechanics and Alternative theories.

Now tell me again (after reviewing your site again), what causes gravity?

I will. Gravitons and mutations. I win.

Not according to General Relativity you don't. It successfully survived the discovery of predicted Black Holes after all… (among other things, but it still doesn’t prove it’s right though).

I noticed you didn't answer the question.

Because that's what your school should have already done. Especially about the genetic change part.

Because that's what your school should have already done. Especially about the genetic change part.

Which one did your school teach you?

Point mutations are changes in the chemical structure of DNA. They may result from chemical or physical damage to the DNA -- for example -- ionizing and ultraviolet radiation (so don't stand under any ozone holes) and chemical mutagens. They also may result from copying errors.

Mutations can range from insertions, which change the whole string of amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) and are probably never favorable; to substitutions, which may change a single amino acid (not always: CUA, CUC, CUG, and CUU all code for same amino acid, so a mutation at the third base location would result in no change).

The effects of mutation vary from none to large (the change from ATC to ATG results in no change, whereas mutations are also responsible for the disease sickle cell anemia) and they are unpredictable:

1. we cannot predict when one will occur
2. we cannot predict which gene will mutate
3. we cannot predict whether the effect will be good or bad
http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/Killeen_archive/paper_to_html/genetic.html#MUTAT

Yes, but it needed to be tested.
no, a theory has been tested thouraghly, and the evidence up till then has shown it correct. a theory can never become true because no matter how often something is tried there is still the possibility of mistake.

EDIT: better explaination: a theory is the best currently known explaination of a scientific law(what does happen, no explaination of why it happends)

Which one did your school teach you?

Point mutations are changes in the chemical structure of DNA. They may result from chemical or physical damage to the DNA -- for example -- ionizing and ultraviolet radiation (so don't stand under any ozone holes) and chemical mutagens. They also may result from copying errors.

Mutations can range from insertions, which change the whole string of amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) and are probably never favorable; to substitutions, which may change a single amino acid (not always: CUA, CUC, CUG, and CUU all code for same amino acid, so a mutation at the third base location would result in no change).

The effects of mutation vary from none to large (the change from ATC to ATG results in no change, whereas mutations are also responsible for the disease sickle cell anemia) and they are unpredictable:

1. we cannot predict when one will occur
2. we cannot predict which gene will mutate
3. we cannot predict whether the effect will be good or bad
http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/Killeen_archive/paper_to_html/genetic.html#MUTAT
All of them.

What, you actually thought that genetic change could only have one cause?!

All of them.

What, you actually thought that genetic change could only have one cause?!


What part of this are you having the hardest time understanding? We don't know 'how/why' gravity works, we don't know 'how/why' genetic change works. Both statements are true.

What part of this are you having the hardest time understanding? We don't know 'how/why' gravity works, we don't know 'how/why' genetic change works. Both statements are true.

No they aren't. They're two completely unrelated subjects. We don't know the one method by which gravity operates. We do know some of the many, many factors that cause DNA sequences to shift. Gravity: One thing that we don't know. Genetic change: Many things, a lot of which we know (radiation, chemicals, random errors with no apparent cause, etc.). It's not analogous.

By the way, sickle-cell anemia isn't caused by any recent random mutations. It's linked with a gene that grants some resistance against maleria, which is why it's spread in malaria-ridden Africa: sickle-cell anemia does little harm on the low-elevation flatlands covering most of Africa, and resistance to malaria is of invaluable use to the local populations.

Fun site. I checked the Wikipedia entry on the author; he sounds like a cool guy.

Back to gravity. We have at least two major competing theories as to 'why' we have gravity. It could be an undiscovered substance we can called gravitons, OR it might be caused by the absence of space itself (the theorem Einstein proposed) meaning that a lack of 'space' is created by mass and creates a hole in the fabric of space that causes other objects (other holes of mass) to move around each other in a straight lines that look like the shape of a curve.
Ummm...you mean "dents" or "warps", not "holes".

Gravitons aren't the cause of gravity and aren't claimed to be the cause of gravity; they are merely the carrier particle in the quantum world. Otherwise, you'd have to say that phonons are the cause of sound or photons are the cause of light, when they are merely the virtual carrier particles to explain the energy of those.