NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

ENOUGH! It is sickening to see supposed open minded, mature individuals, make rash generalizations. I do know there are people that claim Christianity that do not represent themselves as they should. I am aware of this. But why is that you all will take what they say or do and use it against ALL of us? It makes not sense. It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!), yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity. Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Thomas(Zilam)

btw this is my 100th post..woohoo...i feel special...i wish i could have like 5000 though or something :)

Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Quotes please.

I think you'll find nobody has really said anything of the sort.

Threads like these come around every now and then...what people need to learn is that everything gets attacked on NS general, and everything gets its turn.

But why is that you all will take what they say or do and use it against ALL of us? It makes not sense. It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!), yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity. Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Thomas(Zilam)

Well, if you run with the wolves, don't be surprised to be mistaken for one.

And by today's moral and social standards, Christianity IS intolerant. The first commandemnt is to have no other gods, if you remember...

I'm willign to bet 1 million dollars that this thread will not stop the threads or posts that you hate so much.

I'm willign to bet 1 million dollars that this thread will not stop the threads or posts that you hate so much.

Of course not, but it'll sure make for some great reading :D

Well, if you run with the wolves, don't be surprised to be mistaken for one.

And by today's moral and social standards, Christianity IS intolerant. The first commandemnt is to have no other gods, if you remember...


regardless of social standardsit is intolerant. christianity like society is intolerant of those who dont fit in, unlike christianity, society eventually grows to accept people( for examples, homosexuality, divorcees etc)

I'm willign to bet 1 million dollars that this thread will not stop the threads or posts that you hate so much.
'

Oh i know. I am sure I will be ridiculed. People will use my words against me, continue to bash it and what not. So really i don't know why i did this then.

regardless of social standardsit is intolerant. christianity like society is intolerant of those who dont fit in, unlike christianity, society eventually grows to accept people( for examples, homosexuality, divorcees etc)


not true - there is a christian church that had an ad on TV that they would accept homosexuals into their church

'

Oh i know. I am sure I will be ridiculed. People will use my words against me, continue to bash it and what not. So really i don't know why i did this then.


awww damn - so no bet then? shoot I thought I had this one

'

Oh i know. I am sure I will be ridiculed. People will use my words against me, continue to bash it and what not. So really i don't know why i did this then.

Unsupressable desire to feel the martyr for the cause? :D

Not uncommon among Christians, I hear...

not true - there is a christian church that had an ad on TV that they would accept homosexuals into their church

and there are several millions who think otherwise, majority rules

regardless of social standardsit is intolerant. christianity like society is intolerant of those who dont fit in, unlike christianity, society eventually grows to accept people( for examples, homosexuality, divorcees etc)


But see christianity isn't intolerant. If you take the base root of it, Jesus Christ, you see that He loves and accepts everyone, but only those that do the same back will be rewarded...Thats not intolerance, thats being rewarded,ANYONE can do it. But "christians" of the past have made it to be intolerant, ie crusades, inquisition etc...

not true - there is a christian church that had an ad on TV that they would accept homosexuals into their church
Um....the Catholic Church is actually fairly tolerant of homosexuals.....the way a ton of Catholics see it is that it's not the FACT that they're homosexual that makes them bad, it's when they act upon it that it's seen as a sin. Same as if I suddenly decided to do a llama -- they'd condemn the act, not the attraction.

The Church changes it's views too, it just takes a lot longer is all. For example I don't see any Inquisitors going around burning heretics any more, or people marching off on Crusades to show it to Johnny Saracen and take back the Holy Land any more do you? (Apart from maybe George Bush :p)

ENOUGH! It is sickening to see supposed open minded, mature individuals, make rash generalizations.

Wait a minute...we were supposing people to be open-minded and mature? That may be the problem right there. ;)

But see christianity isn't intolerant. If you take the base root of it, Jesus Christ, you see that He loves and accepts everyone, but only those that do the same back will be rewarded...Thats not intolerance, thats being rewarded,ANYONE can do it. But "christians" of the past have made it to be intolerant, ie crusades, inquisition etc...

The ideals are just as much to blame as the individual. People who blow up abortion clinics do so not because they want to but because they feel they are doing what god wants. They are taking action because of ideals that they have been brought up on or have taken as their own. I really hate the don't blame the religion blame the person attitude when religion does play a part in it.

Unsupressable desire to feel the martyr for the cause? :D

Not uncommon among Christians, I hear...


Haha...yes some are martyrs...i am not. I just wanted to let my thoughts out i guess...frustration can build up for only so long before needing to be released

and there are several millions who think otherwise, majority rules


sure right now - but if over time a few churches have accepted homosexuals , then perhaps int eh future the majority will. I'm merely saying the blanket statement you made isn't necessarily true.

Well, if you run with the wolves, don't be surprised to be mistaken for one.

thats a good line Cabra. i might have to use that sometime...

But "christians" of the past have made it to be intolerant, ie crusades, inquisition etc...

Do you realize that these immoral actions of Christianity's past are the only reason you even believe in Chritianity at all? If it had not been for numerous indulgences, an inquisition or two, some crusades, Chritianity surely would have died out. Oh what a wonderful world this would be....

Oh what a wonderful world this would be....

Nah. We'd just fuck it up in a different way. *shrug*

Do you realize that these immoral actions of Christianity's past are the only reason you even believe in Chritianity at all? If it had not been for numerous indulgences, an inquisition or two, some crusades, Chritianity surely would have died out. Oh what a wonderful world this would be....

No the love of Christ is what made it last.

Do you realize that these immoral actions of Christianity's past are the only reason you even believe in Chritianity at all? If it had not been for numerous indulgences, an inquisition or two, some crusades, Chritianity surely would have died out.


Not true. The inquistion was in response to heresies. The Church took such a strong stand on these issues not because they were losing followers and what not but because it was an issue that was important to the Church.

No the love of Christ is what made it last.

Damn, I've got to find me some of this love of Christ. Think it works on cars?

Damn, I've got to find me some of this love of Christ. Think it works on cars?

Can i get a free laptop with it?

Can i get a free laptop with it?

I think you get an ipod mini with it. You'll have to go somewhere else for the laptop I'm afraid.

No the love of Christ is what made it last.
Uh, yeah, sure, whatever you say. But if it had, surely the religion itself would have a more fliexible attitude and be more tolerant to liberal yet moral ideas and concepts? After all, Jesus was about being good to thyself and neighbours, and all that jazz; he never condemned anyone, and yet, Christians are one of the first on the front line to condemn another's so-called immoral action.

If it was the love, then today's Christians would practice his teachings, right down to the word, "just not lest yet be judge," and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I agree with the zilam bloke...

regardless of social standardsit is intolerant. christianity like society is intolerant of those who dont fit in, unlike christianity, society eventually grows to accept people( for examples, homosexuality, divorcees etc)

Show me where in the Bible it is told that you should be intollerant of those sorts of people. While Christianity teaches homosexual sex as a sin, thats no reason to be intolerant of homosexuals. We are all sinners

Bible bashing = 'bad' in American? Here, or at least as far as I know, 'Bible bashing' is what Christians do. Interesting cultural thing.

well zilam, first of all you need to learn how to know a sincere-but-angry anti christian poster from a troll. the former has actual issues that can be discussed; the latter will do whatever it takes to make you lose your temper

trolls are a constant presence everywhere on the net. the sooner you realize that that is their motivation, the more you will enjoy your time online.

secondly, if you dont want anti-christian bashing, dont start a thread about it. especially on a debate site like this the replies you will get will range from "do we really bash christianity" to "does christianity deserve bashing". as you can see this is already happening.

thirdly, if you are too delicate to read posts that diss your religion, you have the option of just not reading them. many people here LOVE the religion debates. if it bothers you, just move on to the "bush sucks" threads. no one is making you read them. whining about it is equivalent to bitching about conversations that you overhear on the bus. it doesnt have to be any of your business.

I think you get an ipod mini with it. You'll have to go somewhere else for the laptop I'm afraid.

You might try Satan ... I've been trying to get one of them to give me a girlfirend for a while though, and no luck, so I wouldn't count on either. :(

I'm sorry, but I can't bring myself to respect your religion or any other. The main reason is the arguement that if its in the bible it must be true. However, that does go both ways. Some people will use the arguement that if it is in the bible it can't be true, and those people do have an equal share of my disgust. There are christians that deserve respect, but in general you just don't. Respect isn't just given, it has to be earned.

Hail Satan!

I think that people should move from Christian bashing because it has gotten oh so very old (yes in a manner not entirely dissimilar from my maternal relative with who you have intercourse, har) and cliched. Its not even a new thing, the great original's of Christian bashing (Emperor Nero went about setting them on fire, and then everyone would laugh and laugh) were about over a millenia ago, and they pretty much discovered the full length and breadth of the genre.
Now yes, I am sure that as long as one person quitely worships your atheist blood will boil and seethe, but can't you seethe in a corner somewhere? Do we really need another stupid ass pardoy involving spaghetti computers that are powered by alien overlords? Can't the world keep turning without someone posting: "You know whats stupid? Christians. You know who we should kill? Christians. You know who doesn't want me to have sex? My mother, she says her ass hurts to much after work"?
If you must make fun of a religion, pick a new target that has never been done before. What about Native American pantheons, or the Aboriginal Dreaming thing?

Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Christians are neither more nor less hypocritical, or zealous, or virtually anything else than any other religion or beliefsystem. What bothers most of those on here who slam Chrisitianity is the fear that Christians will somehow gain sufficient political power in the US that they will begin to oppress those who don't believe as they do.

All of this began back in the late 1970s and early '80s when a number of preachers and evangelists began to declaim against the growing secularization of the US: references to God being removed from public life, God not allowed in public schools, etc. There was a grassroots movement among Christians to gain control of the Republican Party at the local level. In much of the South and West, this movement succeeded. Now the situation is largely reversed, with that peculiarly American version of Christianity, fundamentalism, wielding greater influence than sheer numbers would seem to indicate.

It is this that many secularists fear, and against which they rail.

If you must make fun of a religion, pick a new target that has never been done before. What about Native American pantheons, or the Aboriginal Dreaming thing?

Because they aren't trying to push their beliefs on us, while the christians in this country as a whole are.

Because they aren't trying to push their beliefs on us, while the christians in this country as a whole are.
Ah, the atheist persecution complex, ain't it lovely?
If Christians "as a whole" wanted "to push their beliefs on us" you wouldn't stand a chance, good friend. Now, assuming that CIA (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html) knows its shit in relation to the country out of which it is based, Christians "as a whole" compose 76% of the United States Population. That is enough people to amend the fuck out of the 1st Amendment, and then declare this entire place a Theocracy under Jesus.
Yet, this has not happened. Why?
Is it possibly because a majority of Christians really just want you to get the hell out of their face? Do many Christians, possibly, feel that faith should be a matter of personal choice?
Or maybe it is all part of some grand scheme of oppression that will eventually blow up the Earth? Here is your tinfoil hat, Good Atheist, please stand over beside Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson in the Laugh at the Fanatic Box.

I realize, Zilam, that this may have been good for you to vent, Lord knows I need to also every once and awhile, but know that it will do no good.

Yes, you can point out that Christians have done alot of good in the world, with charities and the like.

Yes, you can point out that people who see little Christmas decorations in public school and then bitch endlessley about the impending Shroud of Theocracy about to descend o'er the land are just as annoying as Jehovah's Witnesses at the door.

Yes, you can point out that while some activites are sinful, they are still welcome to be Christian--in fact, they are the MOST welcome. A hospital wouldn't close it's doors to sick people, after all.

But at the end of the day there are going to be people who hate you for being Christian. Grow a thick skin and deal with it. They will accuse you of having a complex of wanting to be a martyr. Deal with that too.

"Blessed are those who are hated because of me, The Kindgom of Heaven is theirs."

For all you God/Jesus/Bible/Christian/Church Bashers

Mmkay ...

Bashing God != Bashing Jesus (and vice versa)
Jesus != God

Bashing the Bible != Bashing Jesus or God
God is greater than the Bible.
Jesus did not write, nor have anything to do with, creation of the Bible.

Bashing Christians != Bashing God or the Bible
One only needs 4 books of the Bible to be Christian.
"Christian" is not the only religion which worships God.
Jesus said "Blessed are you who are persecuted for my name's sake" so don't worry about it.

Bashing Church != Bashing any of the above.
God does not go to Church.
Jesus's Church had no walls and no bylaws and no collection plate.
Going to Church no more makes you Christian than going into your garage makes you a car.

So .... Bash Away. Nobody really should care.

Oh ... and "!=" == "does not equal".

Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

ENOUGH! It is sickening to see supposed open minded, mature individuals, make rash generalizations. I do know there are people that claim Christianity that do not represent themselves as they should. I am aware of this. But why is that you all will take what they say or do and use it against ALL of us? It makes not sense. It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!), yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity. Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Thomas(Zilam)


I object to Christianity in all its forms and I see no reason why I should show tolerance towards it. If one is to live in a free society one has to live with criticism, so I suggest you get used to the "constant bashing of your way of life". Christians have long cast stones and should not be surprised that many people are now throwing them back.

Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Oh, boo hoo! Now you know how those persecuted by christians have it. This is one heart that isn't bleeding for you!

regardless of social standardsit is intolerant. christianity like society is intolerant of those who dont fit in, unlike christianity, society eventually grows to accept people( for examples, homosexuality, divorcees etc)

Everyone is making the same mistake that intolerance is a bad thing. It's a good thing when applied to the right things. We should be intolerant of murder, racism, sexism, etc. God should be intolerant of the worshiping of other gods, etc.

Though I do agree that homosexuals have been treated unfairly by a lot of Christians.

[QUOTE=Zilam]I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.
QUOTE]
When Christians stop bashing other people's "ways of life" I'll consider it.

Everyone is making the same mistake that intolerance is a bad thing. It's a good thing when applied to the right things. We should be intolerant of murder, racism, sexism, etc. God should be intolerant of the worshiping of other gods, etc.

So, you're comparing the worshipping of gods other than YHWH to murder? That's sick.

Mmkay ...

Bashing God != Bashing Jesus (and vice versa)
Jesus != God

Bashing the Bible != Bashing Jesus or God
God is greater than the Bible.
Jesus did not write, nor have anything to do with, creation of the Bible.

Bashing Christians != Bashing God or the Bible
One only needs 4 books of the Bible to be Christian.
"Christian" is not the only religion which worships God.
Jesus said "Blessed are you who are persecuted for my name's sake" so don't worry about it.

Bashing Church != Bashing any of the above.
God does not go to Church.
Jesus's Church had no walls and no bylaws and no collection plate.
Going to Church no more makes you Christian than going into your garage makes you a car.

So .... Bash Away. Nobody really should care.

Oh ... and "!=" == "does not equal".

I'm getting off topic, but was wondering what denomination you belong to. Since the idea of the Trinity states that Jesus= God so bashing Jesus does = bashing God. And also since when do Christians only need 4 books of the Bible and what are these 4 books.

I do agree that the church has no walls. The Church is actually the gathering of believers. Anytime a few people meet together in the name of God that is the church. I also agree that the Bible was writen by man, though I think the men who wrote it were inspired.

I'm getting off topic, but was wondering what denomination you belong to. Since the idea of the Trinity states that Jesus= God so bashing Jesus does = bashing God. And also since when do Christians only need 4 books of the Bible and what are these 4 books.

Keru's a muslim.

I think that people should move from Christian bashing because it has gotten oh so very old (yes in a manner not entirely dissimilar from my maternal relative with who you have intercourse, har) and cliched. Its not even a new thing, the great original's of Christian bashing (Emperor Nero went about setting them on fire, and then everyone would laugh and laugh) were about over a millenia ago, and they pretty much discovered the full length and breadth of the genre.
Now yes, I am sure that as long as one person quitely worships your atheist blood will boil and seethe, but can't you seethe in a corner somewhere? Do we really need another stupid ass pardoy involving spaghetti computers that are powered by alien overlords? Can't the world keep turning without someone posting: "You know whats stupid? Christians. You know who we should kill? Christians. You know who doesn't want me to have sex? My mother, she says her ass hurts to much after work"?
If you must make fun of a religion, pick a new target that has never been done before. What about Native American pantheons, or the Aboriginal Dreaming thing?

In the US the Christians are not "quitely worshiping", they are actively fighting to have their views enacted into law, their beliefs thought in science class as fact, and ways of life that they disapprove of banned or otherwise restricted.

So, you're comparing the worshipping of gods other than YHWH to murder? That's sick.

Just because they are both things to be intolerant of doesn't make them equal. Just like I can say murder is wrong and so is lieing. Just because I think they are both wrong doesn't mean I think one is equal to the other.

Though if you want to look at things from a Christian perspective every sin is eqauly bad. That's because they are all infinetely away from perfection. So the difference between perfection and a murderer is like subtracting 1 million from infinity while the difference from a perfection and a lier is like subtracting 10 from infinity. Even though muderers are 100,000 times worse then liers, they are esesentially equally bad compaired to perfection.

I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you.

Well ok .... some tolerance from Zilam:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9836964&postcount=62
So Christianity is the only thing holding the world together, eh? All us other religious type folks are just chaotic immoral animals? I'll remember that next time I'm at that heathen Mosque I go to.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9839806&postcount=239
Homosexuality is a sin ... point blank. Go Tolerance! Apparently you have done something to the gay people on this forum to merit some backlash.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9789427&postcount=7
Calling a man you don't even know, who could have relatives on this forum, a "pussy" ... how very Christian of you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9774395&postcount=1
Oh look! Pointing out other folks's bent against Muslims, but on your own regional board you decry the use of a particular Arab-like currency. More tolerance abounds! (Note: regional boards may be roleplay and really don't count, but I found it odd.)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9770287&postcount=46
Oh look! You hate conservatism and capitalism, thus alienating the conservatives and capitalists of NS General.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9768363&postcount=3
Apparently you also strongly dislike Palestinians. Have you met them all?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9761741&postcount=39
You may have been joing here, but it shows further the greatness of your tolerance. I'll have you know that much of my family is/was in New Orleans and I was there during the mess, leaving my wife and kids behind in Houston, so I could go help rescue people and pull bodies out of attics and whatnot. I find your joke, if it was a joke, offensive. If it wasn't a joke, it's even worse.

Shall I continue with this, or will you realise that you should take care of the mote in your eye before worrying about the speck in another's?

I agree with Fass .... Boo Hoo.

In the US the Christians are not "quitely worshiping", they are actively fighting to have their views enacted into law, their beliefs thought in science class as fact, and ways of life that they disapprove of banned or otherwise restricted.
Point of correction: many of us would be quietly worshipping if we didn't have to defend our faith from militant assholes every three hours or so.....those are really the only people MOST Christians have problems with.

I'm getting off topic, but was wondering what denomination you belong to.

I'm Muslim.

In the US the Christians are not "quitely worshiping", they are actively fighting to have their views enacted into law, their beliefs thought in science class as fact, and ways of life that they disapprove of banned or otherwise restricted.
Did you see my post on the "atheist persecution complex." Christians aren't "fighting", they don't have too. If Christians all decided to make the US a Theocracy, that is what would happen. Constituional revisions, Biblical law, and all of that stuff that you are convinced is just around the corner.
You're starting to sound very silly and paranoid, if they wanted a Crusade, they'd jolly well get one; if they wanted Atheist babies burned at the stake, then there would be an Atheist baby bon-fire tommorrow; and if Christianity really sought to oppress all the nonbelievers in the US, well that is what would happen within a few years. Not only that, but that has been the situation since the verry beginning. The founding fathers might not have been strict believers, but the populous were, and the moment the country was turned over to them 73H CHR15714N CRU54D3 could have been underway.
And yet, two centuries and one Civil War later, no Theocracy. In fact, the nation is less religious, in spite of the Theocracy that (you seem to believe) was quietly resting on its haunches around every corner.

Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

ENOUGH! It is sickening to see supposed open minded, mature individuals, make rash generalizations. I do know there are people that claim Christianity that do not represent themselves as they should. I am aware of this. But why is that you all will take what they say or do and use it against ALL of us? It makes not sense. It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!), yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity. Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Thomas(Zilam)

btw this is my 100th post..woohoo...i feel special...i wish i could have like 5000 though or something :)

*pats Zilam on the head*

There, there, feel better now?

EDIT: *Reads Keru's post and is careful not to get bitten when patting Zilam's head.*

Anyway, to make a comment on the original point. There is a lot of bashing and hatred out there. The key is simply not to get involved in it. Don't fan the flames by calling the other side intolerant or randomly bashing them. I find it works best to simply ignore them or respond kindly to them. Some of them are just trolling for ammusment. Others have legitimate issues with the other side, but express it as hatred.

I know homosexuals that are always Christian bashing. Christian bashing is wrong, but I have sympathy for them. Many have been attacked by people claming to be Christians and now hate Christians because of it. Whining about how one side is always attacking you just makes that side angier because they feel you are missplacing the blaim. The best way is to show them that they are wrong. Show them that not all Christians are full of hate by remaining cool and responding kindly. Those that hate Christians may begin to realize not all of them are so bad and those who are just trolling will go away because you aren't getting all worked up like they want.

As a final point lots of people think Christianity is stupid or doesn't make sense. They are entitled to this opinion.

It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!),
It is a religion.


yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity.
So what? They don't claim to have tolerance and love and acceptance as part of their beliefs or nonbeliefs.

Ah, the atheist persecution complex, ain't it lovely?
There is such a thing?

Oh wait--there isn't.

You. Lose.

It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life.
Not if you're more accustomed to walking your own path, it's not. What does hanging around in a big drafty building one day out of seven have anything to do with having a close relationship with God? Or following proscribed rituals to the letter?

It's window-dressing, it is. An excuse for not growing spiritually. Dogma and all it's attendant minutiae won't get anyone any closer to God than they already are - much and all as it's a source of comfort.

Try walking your own road. It might be a little less 'safe', but it's eminently more rewarding.

Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

ENOUGH! It is sickening to see supposed open minded, mature individuals, make rash generalizations. I do know there are people that claim Christianity that do not represent themselves as they should. I am aware of this. But why is that you all will take what they say or do and use it against ALL of us? It makes not sense. It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!), yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity. Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Thomas(Zilam)

btw this is my 100th post..woohoo...i feel special...i wish i could have like 5000 though or something :)

It doesn't matter what they think or what they say. Why should you worry about how you are judged by others anyway? Are they really that important to you? I really hope not.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

There are much more important things for you to be worried about, don't waste your energy on people who would rather you left them alone. ;)

Keru's a muslim.
Or Jewish, or Buddhist, or Jain, or whatever based on the time of day and what mood he's in. Heh!

I'm Muslim.
I have to admit, I'm perplexed. How are Muslims less homophobic or more tolerant than Christians? I'd say they're on even footing as both seem to equally influence a sizable number of fundamentalist whackjobs with evenly horrific agendas.

I'm not into the fad of pardoning the Islamic faith for the same offenses that I find fault within Christian ranks. That's hypocritical.

Both are ancient hogwash IMHO, and I'm an equal opportunity offender. :D
Nothing personal, I just think monotheistic religions have proven themselves to be outrageously dangerous.

Ah, the atheist persecution complex, ain't it lovely?
If Christians "as a whole" wanted "to push their beliefs on us" you wouldn't stand a chance, good friend. Now, assuming that CIA (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html) knows its shit in relation to the country out of which it is based, Christians "as a whole" compose 76% of the United States Population. That is enough people to amend the fuck out of the 1st Amendment, and then declare this entire place a Theocracy under Jesus.
Yet, this has not happened. Why?
Is it possibly because a majority of Christians really just want you to get the hell out of their face? Do many Christians, possibly, feel that faith should be a matter of personal choice?
Or maybe it is all part of some grand scheme of oppression that will eventually blow up the Earth? Here is your tinfoil hat, Good Atheist, please stand over beside Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson in the Laugh at the Fanatic Box.

Maybe 1/10th of those are devout, and 1/10th are political(Not the same exact group, though those devout are more likely to push their views).

A majority of 76% is not a majority of all americans. But again, thats assuming those 76% are devout, or at least not totally apathetic to their religion. In trust, I would only guess that when it came down to the line, only maybe 25% of those would be religious enough to vote for things like creationism in schools, etc, even though many more believe in it.

I'm mostly talking about "the moral majority", and idiotic people like this. These groups and people do get major supporters, though not always when it comes down to the line of an issue. Regardless, until the christians stop supporting such idiotic people(Whether its voting in "moral" canidates like GWB, or watching televangelists), they get grouped in with the crowd trying to push beliefs and belief systems on the rest of america, moreso than any other religious group.

I think that people should move from Christian bashing because it has gotten oh so very old (yes in a manner not entirely dissimilar from my maternal relative with who you have intercourse, har) and cliched. Its not even a new thing, the great original's of Christian bashing (Emperor Nero went about setting them on fire, and then everyone would laugh and laugh) were about over a millenia ago, and they pretty much discovered the full length and breadth of the genre.

I would like to point out that the Romans in general were incredibly tolerant of christians. (There are a few nuts in every large group.) Almost any christian that was killed could have saved his life by making a token sacrifice to the Roman gods. It was the christians' intolerance that got them killed. That goes for any other monotheistic cult back in those days, too.

keru yes i regret half those things i have said...but some of them are not intolerant...I know i have said some bad things..I never claimed to be perfect...but for the most part i try to be as good as possible...Sure i called a man a "pussy" bad..i know. i said homosexuality is a sin..not bad...truth...not intolerant...but yes i repent daily for things i might have said that does not represent what Christ expects of us. Like i said, I nor any one am perfect...If we were Christ wouldn't be neccesary....but I am trying to be a better Christian.. and I am tolerant of everyone. But i will tell them what i beleive is right..thats not intolerance.its witnessing.. And i am sorry for being a bad witness on those posts...i know it does not further my case..But once again its something i am getting better of. And if for a moment any of you think i am intolerant..my best human friend is atheist..one of my family memeber which i hang with alot is a lesbian..i have a few muslim friends...(non practicing)

But i will tell them what i beleive is right..thats not intolerance.its witnessing..

Yet us atheists who note the horrid things christianity did, the things it provokes others to do, the intolerance of it, the idiocy of the whole thing, are intolerant?

And you said we are hypocritical?

Or Jewish, or Buddhist, or Jain, or whatever based on the time of day and what mood he's in. Heh!

Jewish is not a religion. I am Jewish because my mother is Jewish. I was born Jewish. I chose Islam in November of last year. I am, therefore, a Muslim Jew.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Have I changed religious beliefs a time or two in my 33 years? Yes, of course. Anyone who believes the same things they did when they were 3 are either retarded or uneducated.

Oh ... and at heart I will always be Pastafarian. ;)

keru yes i regret half those things i have said...but some of them are not intolerant...I know i have said some bad things..I never claimed to be perfect...but for the most part i try to be as good as possible...Sure i called a man a "pussy" bad..i know. i said homosexuality is a sin..not bad...truth...not intolerant...but yes i repent daily for things i might have said that does not represent what Christ expects of us. Like i said, I nor any one am perfect...If we were Christ wouldn't be neccesary....but I am trying to be a better Christian.. and I am tolerant of everyone. But i will tell them what i beleive is right..thats not intolerance.its witnessing.. And i am sorry for being a bad witness on those posts...i know it does not further my case..But once again its something i am getting better of. And if for a moment any of you think i am intolerant..my best human friend is atheist..one of my family memeber which i hang with alot is a lesbian..i have a few muslim friends...(non practicing)

A sin is in essense doing something bad. So since the act is bad there will be a negative conotation associated with it. You migh sit here and say oh I'm tolerant of homosexuals but you sit around thinking its this crime against god thats bad and that the poor people who are doing it are either bad or don't know the "truth" of your god.

keru yes i regret half those things i have said...but some of them are not intolerant...I know i have said some bad things..I never claimed to be perfect...but for the most part i try to be as good as possible...Sure i called a man a "pussy" bad..i know. i said homosexuality is a sin..not bad...truth...not intolerant...but yes i repent daily for things i might have said that does not represent what Christ expects of us. Like i said, I nor any one am perfect...If we were Christ wouldn't be neccesary....but I am trying to be a better Christian.. and I am tolerant of everyone. But i will tell them what i beleive is right..thats not intolerance.its witnessing.. And i am sorry for being a bad witness on those posts...i know it does not further my case..But once again its something i am getting better of. And if for a moment any of you think i am intolerant..my best human friend is atheist..one of my family memeber which i hang with alot is a lesbian..i have a few muslim friends...(non practicing)

I disagree. I am perfect.

but I am trying to be a better Christian

Then that is all you should concern yourself with.

If you meet a homosexual Christian, then by all means, show them the error of their ways, but leave non-Christians out of it. It is not for you to determine how others believe.

I have to admit, I'm perplexed. How are Muslims less homophobic or more tolerant than Christians?

They're not, but this one is about Christianity.

Islam, as practiced, is very anti open homosexual - most Mosques don't care about the closeted. However Islam, as it is *supposed* to be - just like Christianity as it's supposed to be - isn't anti-homosexual.

Islam embodies Torah, the teachings of Jesus, and Qur'an. In Torah, there is an admonishment towards older men having sex with boys (later translated to all homosexuality, but improperly). Jesus never once said anything against homsexuals or homosexual sex, Paul did and, well, screw Paul. Qur'an contains only laws pertaining to marriage and it is hadith - which I believe should be abolished, burned, and ignored as the Prophet said it should be - that condemns homosexuality harshly.

It is the difference between the works of men and the Word of God.

Torah = Word of God
Mistranslated KJV Torah = works of men

Jesus's teachings = Word of God
Epistles of Paul = works of men

Qur'an = Word of God
Hadith = works of men

In whom do you put your trust?

Christians are neither more nor less hypocritical, or zealous, or virtually anything else than any other religion or beliefsystem. What bothers most of those on here who slam Chrisitianity is the fear that Christians will somehow gain sufficient political power in the US that they will begin to oppress those who don't believe as they do.

All of this began back in the late 1970s and early '80s when a number of preachers and evangelists began to declaim against the growing secularization of the US: references to God being removed from public life, God not allowed in public schools, etc. There was a grassroots movement among Christians to gain control of the Republican Party at the local level. In much of the South and West, this movement succeeded. Now the situation is largely reversed, with that peculiarly American version of Christianity, fundamentalism, wielding greater influence than sheer numbers would seem to indicate.

It is this that many secularists fear, and against which they rail.
Wow, the first rational response wasn't until page two. Wait this is NS General why the hell did I find that suprising:confused:

Jewish is not a religion. I am Jewish because my mother is Jewish. I was born Jewish. I chose Islam in November of last year. I am, therefore, a Muslim Jew.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Have I changed religious beliefs a time or two in my 33 years? Yes, of course. Anyone who believes the same things they did when they were 3 are either retarded or uneducated.

Oh ... and at heart I will always be Pastafarian. ;)
Wounldn't it be more accurate to say that Jewish refers to both a member of the Judaic religon and/or culture/race/ethnic group/whatever than saying that it only means one of the two?

Wounldn't it be more accurate to say that Jewish refers to both a member of the Judaic religon and/or culture/race/ethnic group/whatever than saying that it only means one of the two?

Not really ... because you cannot practice the Judaic religion without being immersed completely in the culture. That's why it takes upwards of 3-5 years to convert to Judaism. You begin the religious practice and learn Torah, yes, but you also *become* Jewish in conversion. You embrace the people as well as the history. You become a Dead Sea pedestrian.

It's kinda hard to explain, I suppose.

Not really ... because you cannot practice the Judaic religion without being immersed completely in the culture. That's why it takes upwards of 3-5 years to convert to Judaism. You begin the religious practice and learn Torah, yes, but you also *become* Jewish in conversion. You embrace the people as well as the history. You become a Dead Sea pedestrian.

It's kinda hard to explain, I suppose.
Thats a good point, but since it is possible to be part of the Jewish culture without being a practicing member of the religon, as you and two of my uncles show, and since it is often used for both how is one suppose to distinguish between the two? Isn't it a bit easier to say that it can be taken to mean either?

[QUOTE=Zilam]Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

ENOUGH! It is sickening to see supposed open minded, mature individuals, make rash generalizations. I do know there are people that claim Christianity that do not represent themselves as they should. I am aware of this. But why is that you all will take what they say or do and use it against ALL of us? It makes not sense. It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!), yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity. Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Thomas(Zilam)




The bigggest problem with Christianity today is it is being represented by the so called "Christian Right". It is not possible to be a social conservative and be a true Christian at the same time. If you actually read the teachings of Jesus, you will find they go against the vast majority of the teachings of Robertson, Fallwell and the rest. They are people Jesus would recognize as Pharasees. The Pharasees of Jesus time also brought down the reputation of the true believers. Mat 7:21-23

It would be good if the true Christians could override the reputation that the "Christian Right" is giving the Christian movement. (But I'm also sure true Muslims would like to override the reputation the "Religious Right" are giving them.) The problem is, true Christians are to be humble people. They are to let actions speak instead of words, and they are to keep their actions as secret as possible. That doesn't make for great TV.

When you hear someone putting down Christians, understand they are putting down the visible pseudoChristians who stand on the corners, who like the best seats, who like people to see them pray in public, who like to force others to pray with them, whe receive the rewards of their friends for being so pious. Read your bible. These people have received their reward.

Did you see my post on the "atheist persecution complex." Christians aren't "fighting", they don't have too. If Christians all decided to make the US a Theocracy, that is what would happen. Constituional revisions, Biblical law, and all of that stuff that you are convinced is just around the corner.
You're starting to sound very silly and paranoid, if they wanted a Crusade, they'd jolly well get one; if they wanted Atheist babies burned at the stake, then there would be an Atheist baby bon-fire tommorrow; and if Christianity really sought to oppress all the nonbelievers in the US, well that is what would happen within a few years. Not only that, but that has been the situation since the verry beginning. The founding fathers might not have been strict believers, but the populous were, and the moment the country was turned over to them 73H CHR15714N CRU54D3 could have been underway.
And yet, two centuries and one Civil War later, no Theocracy. In fact, the nation is less religious, in spite of the Theocracy that (you seem to believe) was quietly resting on its haunches around every corner.

Who, that has nothing to do with the substance of what I actually said.

But i will tell them what i beleive is right..thats not intolerance.its witnessing.

It is argueing your beliefs/point of view at the expense of other beliefs/point of views (there is a certain degree of intolerance in taking part in public debate).

Isn't it a bit easier to say that it can be taken to mean either?

Heh ... nah ... we like to keep it confusing. ;)

Wow, the first rational response wasn't until page two. Wait this is NS General why the hell did I find that suprising:confused:
LOL! Yes, there are some topics on which I can be relatively rational. But if you really wanna see vociferous advocacy, read one of my posts on the US military sometime. :D

Ok so more and more I see posts on here " God is an idiot" "I hate Jesus, cuz he hates me" "Christians are hypocritical" BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

ENOUGH! It is sickening to see supposed open minded, mature individuals, make rash generalizations. I do know there are people that claim Christianity that do not represent themselves as they should. I am aware of this. But why is that you all will take what they say or do and use it against ALL of us? It makes not sense. It seems a bit hypocritical for some of you to be saying that Christianity is an intolerant walk of life(NOT A RELIGION!!!!), yet those same people are the first to be intolerant of Christianity. Im sick of this double standard. I am sick of the constant bashing of my way of life, when i have not done anything to any of you. Please have respect for us, because the majority of us have respect for you.

Thomas(Zilam)

btw this is my 100th post..woohoo...i feel special...i wish i could have like 5000 though or something :)

Ok I get where you're coming from (I'm Christian), but you've got to realise that right now you're giving everyone else the same response that you so hate getting from them... mmk? :fluffle:

Do you realize that these immoral actions of Christianity's past are the only reason you even believe in Chritianity at all? If it had not been for numerous indulgences, an inquisition or two, some crusades, Chritianity surely would have died out. Oh what a wonderful world this would be.... Completely wrong. The Inquisitions did not actually have much effect - certainly not the millions killed that people previously thought. What good did the Inquisitions do Christendom, exactly?
The indulgences led to Protestantism and the fragmenting of Christendom.
The Crusades didn't do much for Christianity either - they were wars of aggression not defence, and did nothing for the centres of Christianity other than piss off the Muslims a great deal.

Anyway, on topic… maybe people should stop shooting dogs instead of wolves, yes?

Bible bashing = 'bad' in American? Here, or at least as far as I know, 'Bible bashing' is what Christians do. Interesting cultural thing.

"Bible thumping" is what it's called in America, if I understand your point correctly.

"Bible thumping" is what it's called in America, if I understand your point correctly.

Right, yes. A Bible basher is usually an evangelical, in UK. It's not, I accept that interesting. But I had little else to contribute to such a discussion.

The bigggest problem with Christianity today is it is being represented by the so called "Christian Right". It is not possible to be a social conservative and be a true Christian at the same time.

Why isn't it possible? I am a conservative and a Christian and I don't see any conflict at all.

If you actually read the teachings of Jesus, you will find they go against the vast majority of the teachings of Robertson, Fallwell and the rest.
How so? Do you have scriptural reference that statement?

The problem is, true Christians are to be humble people. They are to let actions speak instead of words, and they are to keep their actions as secret as possible. I can agree with the humble part, but you are making it sound like Christians are the mob or something "we are there, but we really aren't" Do you have scriptural reference for all this "secret as possible" talk?

How so? Do you have scriptural reference that statement? Well, I for one don't get this whole "material riches are God's way of rewarding his faithful" thing, since Jesus wasn't exactly a multi-millionaire…
…also, Pat Robertson is a brilliant comedian. Some of the things he says… feminists plotting murder against their husbands, and gays wanting to… throw blood everywhere?

Well, I for one don't get this whole "material riches are God's way of rewarding his faithful" thing, since Jesus wasn't exactly a multi-millionaire…
…also, Pat Robertson is a brilliant comedian. Some of the things he says… feminists plotting murder against their husbands, and gays wanting to… throw blood everywhere?
okay. I don't subcribe to the "material riches doctrine" either. I was just seeing what you were talking about, because some people think that Jesus was "okay with sinners, and celebrated thier sin" and I don't subscribe to that veiw either.

btw I think Pat Robertson is hilarious to me, but dangerous to Christianity because he leads people away from the truth, most of "Christian TV" is the same way

Why isn't it possible? I am a conservative and a Christian and I don't see any conflict at all.


How so? Do you have scriptural reference that statement?

I can agree with the humble part, but you are making it sound like Christians are the mob or something "we are there, but we really aren't" Do you have scriptural reference for all this "secret as possible" talk?


First, Jesus was a raving LIBERAL when it came to social problems. He concentrated on the weak, sick, poor, minorities, women, etc. The "religious right" of today supports policies that cut programs for all of these people. I don't know how old you are, but if you're old enough to remember before the "conservative revolution" of 1980, there is no doubt that programs for the people in these catagories have declined to almost nonexistance. Just one example: If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation since 1980, it would be over $7.00/hr instead of $5.00. In other words, the poor lost 50% of their buying power since the "Conservative Christians" gained power.

The only area that you could argue that conservatives have followed the teachings and example of Jesus is in the area of abortion. However: Do the "religious" today love the mother and child? They want the child to be born, but do they give a rodnet's anus about them once the child is born? Do they vote to increase funding for programs that will insure that mother and child have food, clothing, shelter, medicine, education, emotional support for the next 20 years? NO? Is that really showing LOVE for the mother and child? Most abortions take place out of "no hope". What hope for the future does the "religious" give this mother AFTER the child is born? NONE. Yes they will shelter her until the birth and a few days after, but what about 5 years after?

Humble

Mat 23:5 They do all their deeds to be seen by men......They love the best seats...salutations in the market...Mt 23:9 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted...23:23 For you tithe mint and dill and cummin and have neglected weightier matters ofthe law, JUSTICE, MERCY, and faith...23:31 Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets. Read the entire chapter, I can't copy it here. Mark 12 Luke 11

Mat 6:3 When you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so your alms may be in secret... 6:5 When you pray ....6:6 Go into your room and shut the door and pray toyour Father who is in secret. (How does this apply to school prayer and public displays of religion)

This could get real long as the Basic teachings of Jesus demand actions of tolerance and humbleness. They demand that a Christian does not force himself on others. They demand a tolerance for ALL people. They demand that a Christian give way when someone else who believes something else is present. They demand "what is good for others" NOT "what is good for me". Why did the Pharisees (read that "religious right" as they were the "conservatives") hire the killing of Jesus? Because he was a LIBERAL. Because he advocated change NOT conservatism. Jesus said that the religious conservatives had killed all of the prophets and they would kill him also. Today they kill him daily by not following his teachings, but following the teachings of those that hired his death.

<snip>
I'm mostly talking about "the moral majority", and idiotic people like this. These groups and people do get major supporters, though not always when it comes down to the line of an issue. Regardless, until the christians stop supporting such idiotic people(Whether its voting in "moral" canidates like GWB, or watching televangelists), they get grouped in with the crowd trying to push beliefs and belief systems on the rest of america, moreso than any other religious group.
Look, a contradiction!
Here are two different scenarios:
A) There are a couple Crazy Christians who want to quash descent.
B) Christians "as a whole" are going to come out and rape your babies.
If what you believe is A, then Christians are no more dangerous then any other group. 10% of 76% (7.6%) is going to be more than 10% of 2% (.2%), and Christian bashing is pointless and unoriginal because Atheists are just as likely to have intolerant crazies and want to legislate bizarre things.
Alternately, B is true, in which case you have deep need of a Tin Foil hat.
If all Christians wanted to take over, such would already have happened. Christianity was king through-out the West, and yet Atheism and Agnosticism have taken hold are growing rapidly. Most of the original education set-ups carried hearty amounts of Jesus-Magick along the tide.
What does this tell you? It means that:
A) Rational Christianity isn't the enemy of thought
B) Most Christians are perfectly happy to let you (not) worship as you chose if you'd just piss off and quit bugging them
C) No one is going to insitute an American Theocracy under Jesus, if that was ever going to happen, then the time was years ago.

And, Amenstria, please go away if you are just going to ignore what I said. You said that "the Christians . . . are actively fighting to have their views enacted into law", which, as I pointed out, isn't the case. If "the Christians" decided to fight, Atheism would be out the door in a heart beat, they have that much of a majority.
Further, if "the Christians" were "fighting" to have "their beliefs thought in science class as fact", then how would their beliefs have been moved out? Evolution only moved into the American class-room in the last century, for years everyone thought that we had just plopped out of Gods anus, whole and intact.

ah the old christianity chestnut it seems to me that american christians have done a lot to chritianity in general due to very strict fundamentalist dogma
by the way i'm an agnostic so don't hate god i just havent found a faith that suits me and i'd rather form my own beliefs