NationStates Jolt Archive

I have just read a disturbing article in the British press (well The Sun!!) about a US pop band with two twin 12 year old girls, who have white supremecy lyrics and have a general far-right stance, including links to far-right groups on their website and a Hitler smilie t-shirt. It said that the girls were educated by their mother, using books from the 1950's and her own dodgy views. My question is, how seriously are people in the US taking them and how many people of that age share their views?

Drunk Commies Deleted started a thread a day or two back ridiculing them. It got pretty long...

Cool I will have alook at that. Please feel free to carry on here if this post is sufficiently different otherwise dont worry.

how seriously are people in the US taking them and how many people of that age share their views?
your question still stands... wish i had an answer tho *shrugs*
i hope the answer is 'not many'

The thing is that racist viewpoints are dying off and becoming less popular with the youth (or so I read in a different article about these girls) and that these white supremacists want use the music to indoctrinate the youth to hate non-white people.

This will all be moot once we're all hispanic. :)

This will all be moot once we're all hispanic. :)
Pah. The mother of the kids actually practices multiculturalism. It's selective multiculturalism, being restricted to "white" cultures, but multiculturalism nonetheless...

I have just read a disturbing article in the British press (well The Sun!!) about a US pop band with two twin 12 year old girls, who have white supremecy lyrics and have a general far-right stance, including links to far-right groups on their website and a Hitler smilie t-shirt. It said that the girls were educated by their mother, using books from the 1950's and her own dodgy views. My question is, how seriously are people in the US taking them and how many people of that age share their views?

It was in the Telegraph yesterday. You sir, should read a higher quality of paper.

Pah. The mother of the kids actually practices multiculturalism. It's selective multiculturalism, being restricted to "white" cultures, but multiculturalism nonetheless...

How can you "practice multiculturalism"???
Buy French wine and Italian pasta to go with your roastbeef???

How can you "practice multiculturalism"???
Buy French wine and Italian pasta to go with your roastbeef???
She makes sure to send her girls to Highland games and Oktoberfests, two "white" yet culturally distinct events.

The thing is that racist viewpoints are dying off and becoming less popular with the youth (or so I read in a different article about these girls) and that these white supremacists want use the music to indoctrinate the youth to hate non-white people.

I doubt that racism is dying, I sincerely do. The political party deemed most dangerous, yet with the greatest growth rate in the UK, is the BNP, a thoroughly racist and British political party.

I doubt that racism is dying, I sincerely do. The political party deemed most dangerous, yet with the greatest growth rate in the UK, is the BNP, a thoroughly racist and British political party.

No one takes them seriously, not round where i live anyway. They struggle to find support as people see them as being too extreme (luckily for us). I dont think (not sure) theve won any local elections theyve stood in either.

No one takes them seriously, not round where i live anyway. They struggle to find support as people see them as being too extreme (luckily for us). I dont think (not sure) theve won any local elections theyve stood in either.

Indeed, however, they are attracting an awful lot of support in the inner cities, and regions where positive discrimination is pronounced. The proportion of the vote they recieve is also increasing considerably with the passing of each election, due to the ridiculous extent of political correctness under New Labour.

It was in the Telegraph yesterday. You sir, should read a higher quality of paper.

Oh do as well, just not the Torygraph!!

I sincerely hope that it is dieing out in the states and indeed all other the world.

Oh do as well, just not the Torygraph!!

I sincerely hope that it is dieing out in the states and indeed all other the world.Meh, as long as something goes wrong, there will be people blaming someone different for it.

How can you "practice multiculturalism"???
Buy French wine and Italian pasta to go with your roastbeef???

Actually just spelling it rosbif would surely be enough. You could prolly skip the rest.

Meh, as long as something goes wrong, there will be people blaming someone different for it.


That is not a new thing, but very true!! Why do people always look for the cause of the problem, or the perceived cause and not the solution. If people thought that way I swear the world would be a different place!!

your question still stands... wish i had an answer tho *shrugs*
i hope the answer is 'not many'

I had no idea they even existed until the were on that annoying Sawyer womans tabloid TV show. Nor did anyone I knew.

Frankly I think it is much ado about nothing. They are certainly less relevant than the BNP; not at all in other words.

I have just read a disturbing article in the British press (well The Sun!!) about a US pop band with two twin 12 year old girls, who have white supremecy lyrics and have a general far-right stance, including links to far-right groups on their website and a Hitler smilie t-shirt. It said that the girls were educated by their mother, using books from the 1950's and her own dodgy views. My question is, how seriously are people in the US taking them and how many people of that age share their views?

Other than the hyperventilating of some people overseas, no one is really taking notice of them here in America. Your fears that somehow we're all becoming Nazis are unfounded.

Other than the hyperventilating of some people overseas, no one is really taking notice of them here in America. Your fears that somehow we're all becoming Nazis are unfounded.

Not to that **** Diane Sawyer. She started all this crap.

Not to that **** Diane Sawyer. She started all this crap.

She and other "news" people are always hyperventilating.

More attention should be paid to the facts that they are 12 years old, and have been indoctrinated in their racist views by their mother. They haven't really had the chance to form their own opinions about race yet - they are just parroting what they have been told.

However, the rebellious teenage years are just around the corner for them, when they will be dying to piss off their parents. With any luck, they will both wind up dating black guys. Black Jews if they can find them. Or maybe, just for fun, they'll both hook up with a black Jewish lesbian.

:p

She makes sure to send her girls to Highland games and Oktoberfests, two "white" yet culturally distinct events.
Oh, great. Just what I wanna see- stoopid racist chicks in cutesy Hitler gear wreck the atmos at the kaber toss. It'll be everything in my power not to lob haggis at their pointed little heads.

If they're so very into all things Aryan, why don't they take a trip to Kashmir and maybe fall in love with a bona fide Aryan boy? No blond hair or blue eyes, of course, and their racist mum & dad would probably have a shitfit, but they wanna keep it erm... 'pure', riiiiiight?

Riiiiiight.

The last time people officially used the straight arm salute here in the US was during the Franklin Delano Roosevelt presidency.

At the behest of a socialist...
http://rexcurry.net/nazi%20salute%201.jpg

The "Roman salute" myth is used in the same way that the word "Nazi" is used: To cover-up for socialism. It covers-up the fact that government inside the U.S. promoted socialized schools, military socialism within government schools, the creation of industrial armies, and daily robotic pledges of allegiance in military formation with the infamous straight-arm salute (the salute of the National Socialist German Workers' Party or "Nazis"). Francis Bellamy and his cousin and cohort, the author Edward Bellamy, were self-proclaimed national socialists in the U.S. who promoted "military socialism".

Oh, great. Just what I wanna see- stoopid racist chicks in cutesy Hitler gear wreck the atmos at the kaber toss. It'll be everything in my power not to lob haggis at their pointed little heads.

If they're so very into all things Aryan, why don't they take a trip to Kashmir and maybe fall in love with a bona fide Aryan boy? No blond hair or blue eyes, of course, and their racist mum & dad would probably have a shitfit, but they wanna keep it erm... 'pure', riiiiiight?

Riiiiiight.Don't worry about the "Hitler gear". I assume you mean some snappy uniform. That was reserved for the men. Real Nazi women stay home, cook, and have children. The girls wear purdy Prussian dresses or tartan skirts while they try to lift guitars that look to heavy for them.

She makes sure to send her girls to Highland games and Oktoberfests, two "white" yet culturally distinct events.

Which is funny, since by some definitions the Celts, which include the Scots, are not "white" - i.e. not "Aryan", whatever that means.

And at my local Highland games, we always have a few black men showing up in kilts - not many, but a lot of African-Americans do have Scottish ancestry, and some aren't ashamed to admit it.

:p

Cool I will have alook at that. Please feel free to carry on here if this post is sufficiently different otherwise dont worry.
The thread was titled "They're like the Olsen twins only cuter and more evil" in case you want to look it up.

Which is funny, since by some definitions the Celts, which include the Scots, are not "white" - i.e. not "Aryan", whatever that means.

And at my local Highland games, we always have a few black men showing up in kilts - not many, but a lot of African-Americans do have Scottish ancestry, and some aren't ashamed to admit it.

:p

How?

Hold your horses, Sierra. I know you Americans are awash in political revisionism from the moment you're old enough to be propagandized, but get this through your skull-plate:

Socialists, and National Socialists, aren't one-and-the-same, never were, have been, or will be.

The last time people officially used the straight arm salute here in the US was during the Franklin Delano Roosevelt presidency.

At the behest of a socialist...
http://rexcurry.net/nazi%20salute%201.jpg
First of all, the pledge was created by a clergyman at a private school long before the rise of the nazi party. Also, that was just a form of salute used at the time. There's no really special signification attached to it.

Hold your horses, Sierra. I know you Americans are awash in political revisionism from the moment you're old enough to be propagandized, but get this through your skull-plate:

Socialists, and National Socialists, aren't one-and-the-same, never were, have been, or will be.Yeah, one of the perhaps most interesting lines in a movie on National Socialism I've heard was:
"The National Socialist German Worker's Party. But don't worry,*chuckle* they have nothing to do with the real working class."

First of all, the pledge was created by a clergyman at a private school long before the rise of the nazi party. Also, that was just a form of salute used at the time. There's no really special signification attached to it.
Unfortunately, no.

The "Roman salute" myth is used in the same way that the word "Nazi" is used: To cover-up for socialism. It covers-up the fact that government inside the U.S. promoted socialized schools, military socialism within government schools, the creation of industrial armies, and daily robotic pledges of allegiance in military formation with the infamous straight-arm salute (the salute of the National Socialist German Workers' Party or "Nazis"). Francis Bellamy and his cousin and cohort, the author Edward Bellamy, were self-proclaimed national socialists in the U.S. who promoted "military socialism".

Hold your horses, Sierra. I know you Americans are awash in political revisionism from the moment you're old enough to be propagandized, but get this through your skull-plate:

Socialists, and National Socialists, aren't one-and-the-same, never were, have been, or will be.

They are however, both socialists. You can be very racist and socialist. I think the white australia policy proves that.

Don't worry about the "Hitler gear". I assume you mean some snappy uniform. That was reserved for the men. Real Nazi women stay home, cook, and have children. The girls wear purdy Prussian dresses or tartan skirts while they try to lift guitars that look to heavy for them.
Naahhh... I saw a pic of the twin skanks wearing t-shirts (no surprise there, kids) emblazoned with yellow smiley faces made up to look like cutesy Hitlers, y'know, with moustaches that look like upper lip fungus. It was on a link from the last thread featuring a photo of the two of them. Wow, talk about publicly displaying the worst dysfunctions of a family.

I hope they burn with shame when they have their own kids.

How?

How, what? How are the Scots not "white"? I said above - the Celts aren't "Aryan", which by some racist definitions is not "white". If you're asking me for the logic behind this, there isn't any. Racial categories are based on junk science, and were created to justify pre-existing biases. If someone didn't want the Irish and Scots to be included in "white", they made up a reason. Most modern racists do include the Celts in the "white" race, but it wasn't always so.

Or are you asking how African-Americans have Scottish ancestry? It's a well-known fact that most African-Americans aren't of pure African ancestry, and there were a lot of Scottish-American slaveholders. Do the math.

:p

They are however, both socialists. You can be very racist and socialist. I think the white australia policy proves that.
No, Socialism is anathema to Fascism. The Spanish Civil War was not fought by different varieties of Fascist.

Score another victory for American political revisionism. The people can't define the political landscape to save their lives. From Fascism, anyway...

No, Socialism is anathema to Fascism. The Spanish Civil War was not fought by different varieties of Fascist.

Score another victory for American political revisionism. The people can't define the political landscape to save their lives. From Fascism, anyway...

Similarly to Communism, Fascism took control of the economy with the inauguration of many organizations to control output and prices amongst other things.

State control of the means of production is Communism. Pure and simple.

How, what? How are the Scots not "white"? I said above - the Celts aren't "Aryan", which by some racist definitions is not "white". If you're asking me for the logic behind this, there isn't any. Racial categories are based on junk science, and were created to justify pre-existing biases. If someone didn't want the Irish and Scots to be included in "white", they made up a reason. Most modern racists do include the Celts in the "white" race, but it wasn't always so.

Or are you asking how African-Americans have Scottish ancestry? It's a well-known fact that most African-Americans aren't of pure African ancestry, and there were a lot of Scottish-American slaveholders. Do the math.

:p

A teeny lesson in race theory. Scotland as we percieve it, is white, entirely so, it is at the same latitude as canada, ergo it is etnically a white nation. No fellow of African origin is truly scottish, he is african, or black. How many of the generic "scots" in Braveheart were black? How many scots in historical paintings are black?

Naahhh... I saw a pic of the twin skanks wearing t-shirts (no surprise there, kids) emblazoned with yellow smiley faces made up to look like cutesy Hitlers, y'know, with moustaches that look like upper lip fungus. It was on a link from the last thread featuring a photo of the two of them. Wow, talk about publicly displaying the worst dysfunctions of a family.

I hope they burn with shame when they have their own kids.They're wearing traditional Prussian garb on one of their album covers. I'm amazed how they think they have some "claim" to Prussian ancestry.

A teeny lesson in race theory. Scotland as we percieve it, is white, entirely so, it is at the same latitude as canada, ergo it is etnically a white nation. No fellow of African origin is truly scottish, he is african, or black. How many of the generic "scots" in Braveheart were black? How many scots in historical paintings are black?

I can't tell - some of the older pictures have these blue guys in them... ;)

A teeny lesson in race theory. Scotland as we percieve it, is white, entirely so, it is at the same latitude as canada, ergo it is etnically a white nation. No fellow of African origin is truly scottish, he is african, or black. How many of the generic "scots" in Braveheart were black? How many scots in historical paintings are black?How many American's have Scottish ancestry? How many of them had a black lover?
It isn't unlikely at all that there are blacks with scottish ancestry running around in the US or Canada.

No, Socialism is anathema to Fascism. The Spanish Civil War was not fought by different varieties of Fascist.

Score another victory for American political revisionism. The people can't define the political landscape to save their lives. From Fascism, anyway...

So socialist factions can't fight with each other? (Anyway, the spanish "fascism" was very different from Nazism or Italian Fascism, and the civil war was a hell of a lot more convoluted than Fascism v. Socialism. Score one for political revisionism.)

Hitler supported a wide range of socialist policies, especially state control of key industries, market controls &c. Oddly enough, this is not my opinion, but that of some old dude called Hayek, who was originally from Austria and then emigrated to the UK. He drew these conclusions during WII.

I suppose however, I jumped in my tardis, went back in time and brainwashed him with my american revisionism.

How many American's have Scottish ancestry? How many of them had a black lover?
It isn't unlikely at all that there are blacks with scottish ancestry running around in the US or Canada.
Or Scots running around black ancestry.

Moorish, even.

The Spanish Armada, anybody?

I suppose however, I jumped in my tardis, went back in time and brainwashed him with my american revisionism.

No, that was me. I went back and kicked Hayek in the testicles until he agreed with me.

How many American's have Scottish ancestry? How many of them had a black lover?
It isn't unlikely at all that there are blacks with scottish ancestry running around in the US or Canada.

Actually a fair number of scots went to the sugar islands as "help" after the clearances. I would imagine there are a lot of blacks with scottish ancestry.

Teehee, they don't seem to write their own songs at all. They just cover songs from other white power bands...

What are some of your favorite groups, either current or past?
We really like Avril Lavigne, Evanescence, Three Days Grace, Green Day, AC/DC, and Alison Krauss. For racial groups we like Final War, CutThroat, Saga, Max Resist, Youngland, Brutal Attack, and of course Skrewdriver. But our all-time favorite is Barney the purple dinosaur!
Aw! How cute! Barney! These girls have to be fake. I've got the feeling they're some sort of PR gag that's supposed to hook people through the "cute racism" aspect...
(Wait a minute... Barney isn't white, is he?)

A teeny lesson in race theory. Scotland as we percieve it, is white, entirely so, it is at the same latitude as canada, ergo it is etnically a white nation. No fellow of African origin is truly scottish, he is african, or black. How many of the generic "scots" in Braveheart were black? How many scots in historical paintings are black?

Oh, I see. You believe that racial categories are fixed and immutable, based on science, and completely agreed by all, do you? Here's a lesson for you: it isn't so. It's a fact that there were plenty of people in the 18th and 19th centuries who didn't included Celts in the "white race". Race has nothing to do with skin color, nothing to do with latitude (else the Canadian Native peoples would be "white"), and nothing to do with facts. It's entirely in the mind of the person creating the definition. So you may see yourself as "white", but there may be others who do not. Deal with it.

And I said that many African-Americans have Scottish ancestry, not that they were Scots. If that makes them less "Scottish" in your eyes, so be it. In America, the Highland Games are a celebration of Scottish heritage, and are open to anyone who wants to claim that heritage. I'm not pure Scottish myself (also Irish, English and German), but I still go to them. And I have no problem with a black man of Scottish ancestry attending, either. If the games were restricted to pure "Scots", then they could just hold them in someone's backyard.

(And don't get me started on your use of Braveheart as evidence. :rolleyes:)

State control of the means of production is Communism. Pure and simple.

Couldn´t it be that it´s rather communistic than communism? It seems to me there might be something else to both communism and nationalsocialism.
Anyway, most German and European historians agree, that Hitler and his chums used the "socialism"-term as a bait for votes. Shortly after their coming to power, they disempowered the socialistic branch of the NSdAP, killing some hundred of the more important ones in the so called Night of the Long Knives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives) or Röhm-Putsch.

Couldn´t it be that it´s rather communistic than communism? It seems to me there might be something else to both communism and nationalsocialism.

Hayek doesn't agree.

But I digress.

Yes, there are other things that differ between fascism and socialism and communism.

But fascism IS a form of socialism. Not a very pure form, but a form nonetheless.

It certainly isn't a form of free market economy.

No one takes them seriously, not round where i live anyway. They struggle to find support as people see them as being too extreme (luckily for us). I dont think (not sure) theve won any local elections theyve stood in either.
They've won a few council seats in Stoke.
Didn't they win a by election in Tower Hamlets back in the '90s? There was quite a fuss about that, iirc.

Aw! How cute! Barney! These girls have to be fake. I've got the feeling they're some sort of PR gag that's supposed to hook people through the "cute racism" aspect...
(Wait a minute... Barney isn't white, is he?)

I would love to see their young confused faces when that is pointed out to them.:D

They've won a few council seats in Stoke.
Didn't they win a by election in Tower Hamlets back in the '90s? There was quite a fuss about that, iirc.

It's always a risk you take when you allow people to vote.

Hayek doesn't agree.

But I digress.

Yes, there are other things that differ between fascism and socialism and communism.

But fascism IS a form of socialism. Not a very pure form, but a form nonetheless.

It certainly isn't a form of free market economy.
I don't want to get into another slanging match, but aren't you confusing form and function here? Fascism isn't implicitly tied to any form of economic structure, though it is true that most fascist states have taken a very hands on approach to governing.

I would love to see their young confused faces when that is pointed out to them.:DI'd do it in the tongue of their Prussian heritage, but they probably wouldn't understand me. I took a look at their lyrics and there's one German children's song. Their German is abominable.

It's always a risk you take when you allow people to vote.
I was pointing out that Kepi's statement was incorrect and that the BNP have won the odd election. Given that the Americans here don't appear to have a clue about British politics, it's as well to be clear about these things.

I was pointing out that Kepi's statement was incorrect and that the BNP have won the odd election. Given that the Americans here don't appear to have a clue about British politics, it's as well to be clear about these things.

Well, I'm an American. I have the distinct impression that unlike the US, you have more than two parties, and that even a fringe party can win a seat or two from time to time.

Those things are much harder in the US (although there are instances where independent candidates or fringe parties have won here and there). That's why most Americans are shocked when they hear that BNP actually "wins" anything.

I just checked out the fashion section on their homepage and guess what? They're traitors! They're propagating wearing Bavarian clothes on their pages as though they were German! How decidedly un-Prussian...:D

But fascism IS a form of socialism. Not a very pure form, but a form nonetheless.

It certainly isn't a form of free market economy.

You´re right insofar that, up to now, all realsocialistic and-communistic systems have turned out fascistic, and that neither ideological communism nor nationalsocialism have the concept of a free market among their goals.
But for very different reasons: nationalsocialism needs a planned economy to be able to make war to lesser races and subjugate them, enabling the "Herrenrasse" a live of lords (as, according by nationalsocialistic "science", they are entitled to); whereas communism creates a planned economy to enable people a live in wealth - all people.

(edit: forgot ""ing some words)

whereas communism creates a planned economy to enable people a live in wealth - all people.

Call me when that actually happens.

My question is, how seriously are people in the US taking them and how many people of that age share their views?
Not very, and hardly any.

I just checked out the fashion section on their homepage and guess what? They're traitors! They're propagating wearing Bavarian clothes on their pages as though they were German! How decidedly un-Prussian...:D

Almost as bad as T.A.T.U saying they are lesbians when one has a baby. Not uncommon these days though is it.

Well, I'm an American. I have the distinct impression that unlike the US, you have more than two parties, and that even a fringe party can win a seat or two from time to time.

Those things are much harder in the US (although there are instances where independent candidates or fringe parties have won here and there). That's why most Americans are shocked when they hear that BNP actually "wins" anything.
In practice we have a three party system at the moment. The Libdems could have pushed the tories into third place at the moment and taken a fair stab at Labour's majority at the last general election if they put somebody halfway credible in charge of the party and moved further to the left.

Almost as bad as T.A.T.U saying they are lesbians when one has a baby. Not uncommon these days though is it.
Perhaps that's how she found out that she was a lesbian?

Almost as bad as T.A.T.U saying they are lesbians when one has a baby. Not uncommon these days though is it.

Lesbians aren't sterile, you know. And artificial insemination, in-vitro fertilization, and other non-sexual conception methods are not restricted to heterosexuals. So there need not be any "violation" of her lesbianism for her to have a baby.

:p

In practice we have a three party system at the moment. The Libdems could have pushed the tories into third place at the moment and taken a fair stab at Labour's majority at the last general election if they put somebody halfway credible in charge of the party and moved further to the left.

I still haven't heard anyone explain why Labour changed so fundamentally. I thought they were democratic socialists. Trade unionists.

I've heard plenty of laments - and people explaining dates and times - but NO ONE has told me WHY.

If moving away from the left has been so successful, why would they move left?

Call me when that actually happens.
It seems there were a few Kropotkinist communes in the Ukraine during the Russian Revolution. Of course, once the Bolsheviks starting consolidating their position, that sort of thing went out of the window.

Almost as bad as T.A.T.U saying they are lesbians when one has a baby. Not uncommon these days though is it.Worse. Prussians and Bavarians are the two big rival entities in German culture. There is still much enmity and rivalry (though perhaps much friendlier nowadays) between the North Germans or Berliners (successors of the Hanseatic League and the original Prussian kingdom) and Bavarians. Proper "Prussian" girls wouldn't be wearing Dirndls or propagating that you wear Lederhosen. It would be like giving an Englishman the right to his own Tartan kilt, I'd wager...

It seems there were a few Kropotkinist communes in the Ukraine during the Russian Revolution. Of course, once the Bolsheviks starting consolidating their position, that sort of thing went out of the window.

That's like saying, "Communism works because a few Israeli communes and some Hutterite communities have it working".

No, I mean an entire nation-state the size of, say, France.

I still haven't heard anyone explain why Labour changed so fundamentally. I thought they were democratic socialists. Trade unionists.

The size of the lower-middle classes increased, the number of actual trades unionists (ship-builders, miners and the like) decreased. Hence the move to the right. No-one wants to admit that however.

I still haven't heard anyone explain why Labour changed so fundamentally. I thought they were democratic socialists. Trade unionists.

I've heard plenty of laments - and people explaining dates and times - but NO ONE has told me WHY.

Isn't that obvious? For the same reason the Democrats moved to the right - they wanted to win. They were tired of losing, realized that they weren't winning with their existing platform, and so decided to sell out their principles for power. It's not about policies or ideology - it's about power.

:rolleyes:

Worse. Prussians and Bavarians are the two big rival entities in German culture. There is still much enmity and rivalry (though perhaps much friendlier nowadays) between the North Germans or Berliners (successors of the Hanseatic League and the original Prussian kingdom) and Bavarians. Proper "Prussian" girls wouldn't be wearing Dirndls or propagating that you wear Lederhosen. It would be like giving an Englishman the right to his own Tartan kilt, I'd wager...

I'm English and I have a Tartan apparently. Maybe that means I am not as English as I thought. Mind you I have a Flemish surname, and my first name is the same as the patron saint of Scotland. OMG I'm not that English after all am I. I just wonder how far back most people who think they are from somewhere, have to go, to find out they are in fact from somewhere else. This makes all racial and cultural hatred null and void because you could end up hating yourself!!

P.S Yes I know lesbians CAN have children, I was pointing out T.A.T.U by name because of all of the hype around them shattered because they actually DO like boys!!

I still haven't heard anyone explain why Labour changed so fundamentally. I thought they were democratic socialists. Trade unionists.

I've heard plenty of laments - and people explaining dates and times - but NO ONE has told me WHY.

If moving away from the left has been so successful, why would they move left?
They moved to the right to try to woo the Mail reading, Church of England, middle class Tory heartland vote. The fact that Blair, a hugely illiberal and anti-democratic control freak, took control of the party after the death of John Smith probably led to this taking a more offensive form than it would have otherwise, but the party spent most of the Thatcher/Major years heading to the right, on the reasoning that if people were voting for this, then they had to do this in order to compete. Hence an initially uneasy, but recently almost seamless assimilation of values calculated to appeal to right leaning centrists. (This reached its peak during the last general election with Howard whining that Blair had stolen most of his party's political stance.)
Labour does, in fact, continue to draw revenue from the Trade Unions, despite refusing point blank to represent them in Parliament. Most people are hopeful that when Blair finally takes his leave, the party will start moving back to the left. The real crying shame is that they could have had Lenin's corpse leading the party in 1997 and still won because everyone was so sick of the Conservatives.

That's like saying, "Communism works because a few Israeli communes and some Hutterite communities have it working".

No, I mean an entire nation-state the size of, say, France.
Be more specific instead of talking in generalisms, then.
The problem faced by Communist states is that they're in competition with capitalist states, who tend to do better in terms of international trade. The main reason the Soviet Union collapsed, after all, is that they'd been bankrupted by fifty odd years of pointless who can piss the highest contests with the richest nation on Earth. Without the bulk of the money being ploughed into that sort of nonsense, they'd have had a better standard of living.
That said, the Soviet Union was an authoritarian state that used socialism as an excuse, rather than a socialist state for most of its history. The same applies to Cuba and China.

Be more specific instead of talking in generalisms, then.
The problem faced by Communist states is that they're in competition with capitalist states, who tend to do better in terms of international trade. The main reason the Soviet Union collapsed, after all, is that they'd been bankrupted by fifty odd years of pointless who can piss the highest contests with the richest nation on Earth. Without the bulk of the money being ploughed into that sort of nonsense, they'd have had a better standard of living.

Trotsky lives!

I'm English and I have a Tartan apparently. Maybe that means I am not as English as I thought. Mind you I have a Flemish surname, and my first name is the same as the patron saint of Scotland. OMG I'm not that English after all am I. I just wonder how far back most people who think they are from somewhere, have to go, to find out they are in fact from somewhere else. This makes all racial and cultural hatred null and void because you could end up hating yourself!!

Bingo! Dead on the money! None of us are "pure" anything, and all of us are descended from people who came from somewhere else (unless you happen to be a resident of Olduvai Gorge and can prove that your ancestors never left there. Even then, your distant ancestors had to have crawled out of some ocean, so... :D)

It would be like giving an Englishman the right to his own Tartan kilt, I'd wager...

Amusing historical anectode: Sir Walter Scott (who invented the idea of "clan tartans" out of whole cloth, if you'll pardon the pun) created a tartan for Prince Albert, Queen Victoria's husband. And he was a real Sassenach!

And never mind that the modern British royal family (which is largely of German ancestry) wears the kilt of the Stewarts. A lot of fine historical irony is represented there.

:p

And never mind that the modern British royal family (which is largely of German ancestry) wears the kilt of the Stewarts. A lot of fine historical irony is represented there.

:p[/QUOTE]

Always makes me laugh that Phil the Greek is the Duke of Edinburgh, who is one of the most racist people in Britain, (there goes my Knighthood!!)

And it never occured to me the significance of the Kilts and the Royal family. As they are not directly (or indeed not very in-directly either) related to the Stuarts they should not wear them!!

Trotsky lives!
By your values, anyone who doesn't believe that Government interference in the free flow of capitalism is an abhorrent abomination is probably a fair ringer for Trotsky, so I'll take that as a compliment.

By your values, anyone who doesn't believe that Government interference in the free flow of capitalism is an abhorrent abomination is probably a fair ringer for Trotsky, so I'll take that as a compliment.

Your statement that a Communist state can't compete in a world where capitalist states outperform them is a Trotsky-ism.

Either that, or you're Clodagh Rogers.

And it never occured to me the significance of the Kilts and the Royal family. As they are not directly (or indeed not very in-directly either) related to the Stuarts they should not wear them!!

Actually, they are. The Stewarts (or Stuarts, if you prefer) in exile married into the Hanovers - I forget the exact details, but you can look them up if you wish. King George IV was actually the legal heir to the Stewart claim to the British throne - by some accounts, every British monarch from William & Mary to George III were usurpers.

:p

Actually, they are. The Stewarts (or Stuarts, if you prefer) in exile married into the Hanovers - I forget the exact details, but you can look them up if you wish. King George IV was actually the legal heir to the Stewart claim to the British throne - by some accounts, every British monarch from William & Mary to George III were usurpers.

:p

You learn something new every day!!

Your statement that a Communist state can't compete in a world where capitalist states outperform them is a Trotsky-ism.
Yes, but it's also true. The collapse of the Soviet Union would seem to bear this thesis out to some extent, wouldn't you say?

Yes, but it's also true. The collapse of the Soviet Union would seem to bear this thesis out to some extent, wouldn't you say?

I have always thought that Trotsky was right. Not that I feel that any human organization could run a true socialist or communist state.

The only time we'll ever accomplish that is when robots perform all labor, and computer software runs our lives seamlessly and without noticeable intrusion (noticeable to us).

Then we won't even be workers, but we'll be living in Paradise. A much more realistic prospect than the idea that people could do it.

I have always thought that Trotsky was right. Not that I feel that any human organization could run a true socialist or communist state.
Probably a rare example of us agreeing on something, then. The human element is definitely the sticking point here.

The only time we'll ever accomplish that is when robots perform all labor, and computer software runs our lives seamlessly and without noticeable intrusion (noticeable to us).

Then we won't even be workers, but we'll be living in Paradise. A much more realistic prospect than the idea that people could do it.
There's a few SF writers who've imagined up socialist utopias along those lines, but unfortunately it's a lot cheaper to pay a 12 year old in Asia to manufacture goods than it is to build robots who can do piecework and shitwork.

She makes sure to send her girls to Highland games and Oktoberfests, two "white" yet culturally distinct events.

Such people would be scorned and mocked at Highland events in Wisconsin; and Oktoberfests here are a celebration of the anti-fascist, radical Germans of the 1848 revolutions, who came to Milwaukee afterwards, and their spiritual heirs like Socialist mayors Seidl and Zeidler.

Es bleibet dabei:
Die Gedanken sind frei.

Such people would be scorned and mocked at Highland events in Wisconsin; and Oktoberfests here are a celebration of the anti-fascist, radical Germans of the 1848 revolutions, who came to Milwaukee afterwards, and their spiritual heirs like Socialist mayors Seidl and Zeidler.

Es bleibet dabei:
Die Gedanken sind frei.Psst. "bleibe" :D

Such people would be scorned and mocked at Highland events in Wisconsin; and Oktoberfests here are a celebration of the anti-fascist, radical Germans of the 1848 revolutions, who came to Milwaukee afterwards, and their spiritual heirs like Socialist mayors Seidl and Zeidler.

Es bleibet dabei:
Die Gedanken sind frei.
I do always wonder about the careers a few German actors had in Hollywood in the '40s, on a related note to that: you have people like Conrad Veidt and Peter Lorre who got the hell out of Germany in a hurry when that started going down and spent a fair chunk of the next ten years playing Nazis...

Psst. "bleibe" :D

It's bad enough that we have people correcting our spelling and grammar in English.

It's bad enough that we have people correcting our spelling and grammar in English.Which is why I don't do it that often. I don't correct anyone's spelling on my German-speakers thread (and some of the people there were typing without looking at where their fingers were hitting).

The reason I chose to correct that is because it's from a lullabye about freedom of thought:

Die Gedanken sind frei,
Thoughts are free,
Wer kann sie erraten?
Who can guess them?
Sie fliegen vorbei,
They fly by
Wie nächtliche Schatten.
Like nightly shadows.

Kein Mensch kann sie wissen,
No person (lit.: human) can know them,
Kein Jäger sie schießen,
No hunter can shoot them,
Es bleibe dabei,
(Let) it stay that way,
Die Gedanken sind frei.
Thoughts are free.

No fellow of African origin is truly scottish, he is african, or black.

What? Is this some kind of insane variation on the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy?

So socialist factions can't fight with each other? (Anyway, the spanish "fascism" was very different from Nazism or Italian Fascism, and the civil war was a hell of a lot more convoluted than Fascism v. Socialism. Score one for political revisionism.)

(State Communism vs. Anarchism vs. Socialism vs. Republicanism) vs. (Nationalism vs. Fascism).

Or Scots running around black ancestry.

Moorish, even.

The Spanish Armada, anybody?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there Moorish troops stationed at Hadrian's Wall during Roman times, although no direct evidence of their genetic legacy has actually been uncovered, am I right?

What? Is this some kind of insane variation on the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy?
Perhaps he doesn't know that there were several large influxes of Africans into Elizabethan England the bulk of whom vanished, miscegenating across the race lines.

Laerod: has anybody actually listened to this stuff? The notion of a folk duo covering hardcore german Oi! songs is an odd one. Weiss Weiss Weiss is hardly The Great Valerio...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there Moorish troops stationed at Hadrian's Wall during Roman times, although no direct evidence of their genetic legacy has actually been uncovered, am I right?
That rings a bell. I think you could well be right there.

Perhaps he doesn't know that there were several large influxes of Africans into Elizabethan England the bulk of whom vanished, miscegenating across the race lines.

Laerod: has anybody actually listened to this stuff? The notion of a folk duo covering hardcore german Oi! songs is an odd one. Weiss Weiss Weiss is hardly The Great Valerio...

Don't why you would want to, but hey, I've got the lyrics

When the man who plows the fields is driven from his lands. When the carpenter must give away what he's built with his own hands. When a mother's only children belong to her no more. And black masked men with guns come bashing down the doors. Where freedom exists for only those with darker skin. Where lies and propaganda will never let you win. Where symbols of your heritage are held with such contempt, and benefits of country 'cept tax are you exempt .

Aryan man awake, How much more will you take, Turn that fear to hate, Aryan man awake.

Can you see how they lie to warp your daughter's minds? Can you let your sons be trodden down or held behind? Can you apologize for things you did not do, and leave this battle that we fight to the proud and the few? What will it take for you to waken to the truth? What will it take for you to remember your own youth? What will you give up to help this worthy Cause, and strike with force and fury, without a single pause?

What will it take for you to remember your own folk? What will it take for you to break that heavy yoke? Why do you still cast your eyes downward to the ground? Worry lest what you say have prejudicial sound. Who will stand beside us when the war begins? Who will run and hide their heads and wait to see who wins? Who will face the end and watch a Valkyrie ride forth To join the gods and fallen stormtroopers of the North?

My god somepeople need talent, although Nazi Idol would be a bloody funny show.:p

Laerod: has anybody actually listened to this stuff? The notion of a folk duo covering hardcore german Oi! songs is an odd one. Weiss Weiss Weiss is hardly The Great Valerio...I'd be quite willing to kill them for massacring that song. I sang that in Kindergarten! I don't even think white is the first color to be listed, either. Needless to say, they have abominable spelling, considering that they should have been able to find a good copy of the song somewhere on the www if they spoke German.

Don't why you would want to, but hey, I've got the lyrics

When the man who plows the fields is driven from his lands. When the carpenter must give away what he's built with his own hands. When a mother's only children belong to her no more. And black masked men with guns come bashing down the doors. Where freedom exists for only those with darker skin. Where lies and propaganda will never let you win. Where symbols of your heritage are held with such contempt, and benefits of country 'cept tax are you exempt .

Aryan man awake, How much more will you take, Turn that fear to hate, Aryan man awake.

Can you see how they lie to warp your daughter's minds? Can you let your sons be trodden down or held behind? Can you apologize for things you did not do, and leave this battle that we fight to the proud and the few? What will it take for you to waken to the truth? What will it take for you to remember your own youth? What will you give up to help this worthy Cause, and strike with force and fury, without a single pause?

What will it take for you to remember your own folk? What will it take for you to break that heavy yoke? Why do you still cast your eyes downward to the ground? Worry lest what you say have prejudicial sound. Who will stand beside us when the war begins? Who will run and hide their heads and wait to see who wins? Who will face the end and watch a Valkyrie ride forth To join the gods and fallen stormtroopers of the North?

My god somepeople need talent, although Nazi Idol would be a bloody funny show.:p
I'd watch it.
"And now, we have the National Socialist Cru laying down some Rhymes! Big Herman! Li'l Zyklon B! Dolphie Swastika!"

I'd watch it.
"And now, we have the National Socialist Cru laying down some Rhymes! Big Herman! Li'l Zyklon B! Dolphie Swastika!"

LOL, if you can be bothered, go on the website, and read the biography, it is awesome. "In our spare time we enjoy being pretty and talented". :rolleyes:

Perhaps he doesn't know that there were several large influxes of Africans into Elizabethan England the bulk of whom vanished, miscegenating across the race lines.

There were certainly black Highlanders engaged in the fighting at Culloden.

There were certainly black Highlanders engaged in the fighting at Culloden.

Of course there were:rolleyes:

Yeah, I just looked up the real song. It's called "Grün, grün, grün sind alle meine Kleider" and not "Weiß, Weiß, Weiß". It's an old Pommeranian song that can have any number of verses attached just by figuring out another color.

LOL, if you can be bothered, go on the website, and read the biography, it is awesome. "In our spare time we enjoy being pretty and talented". :rolleyes:All I found was a gallery with three measly pictures...

All I found was a gallery with three measly pictures...

It's Prussianblue.net (http://www.PrussianBlue.net)I think.

Yeah, I just looked up the real song. It's called "Grün, grün, grün sind alle meine Kleider" and not "Weiß, Weiß, Weiß". It's an old Pommeranian song that can have any number of verses attached just by figuring out another color.
My mistake: not having heard it and just looking at the lyrics I assumed it was Storkroft or Die Bohse Oncle or someone (at least partly because it looks like it's been inexpertly translated from the original German.)
I'll have to try doing some of that research stuff I've heard about in future...

There were certainly black Highlanders engaged in the fighting at Culloden.
A big part of my issue with the BNP and similar organisations is that the whole notion of racial purity in the UK is risible. It isn't workable in a country like this, and that's one of the things I like about the place.

A big part of my issue with the BNP and similar organisations is that the whole notion of racial purity in the UK is risible.

The British Isles belong to the Beaker People!
Anglo-Saxons go home!
Picts go home!
Celts go home!

Of course there were:rolleyes:

Can't find the documentation on this right now, but here from the National Archives of Scotland is the biography of a contemporaneous black Scot:

http://www.nas.gov.uk/about/050930Transcript.asp

Here's another page:

http://www.nas.gov.uk/about/050930.asp


"From government and private records in the NAS it is possible to describe the experiences of Black people in Scotland from at least the early 1500s onwards."

Here's (http://www.kezarcelts.net/cgi-bin/YaBB.cgi?board=history;action=print;num=1069596004) the best I can find online to show the existence of Black Highlanders at Culloden - "But, further reading did reveal the presence of black men in the entourages of one or two Highland chiefs. Apparently, they had Caribbean holdings, or some such. One black highlander even got into trouble for violating the Proscription Act by wearing highland garb!" - which I certainly admit is not the best evidence, but it backs up what I know from elsewhere.

The Emperor Windrush didn't land the first black people on the British Isles, you know?

The British Isles belong to the Beaker People!
Anglo-Saxons go home!
Picts go home!
Celts go home!
Right. It's pathetic, isn't it?

We should decry this idiocy, but neeed not worry too much.

In the marketplace of ideas, this inane racial babble has always lost eventually. Here, it won't get far at all.

In the marketplace of ideas, this inane racial babble has always lost eventually. Here, it won't get far at all.

On a global scale, yes, it pretty much has, but armed interventions have sometimes been needed to tip the scales away from racialist hysteria.

The British Isles belong to the Beaker People!
Anglo-Saxons go home!
Picts go home!
Celts go home!

So what gives the Beaker People special privileges, as opposed to the reindeer who ruled the British Isles before them? :p

Amusing historical anecdote: Some years ago on the old NS forum, I got flamed by a neo-Nazi (they infested the forum in those days the way fleas infest a dog) because I pointed out that the British Isles were completely uninhabited as recently as about 8000 BC (based on archaeological evidence), and so therefore everyone in the British Isles were descended from immigrants. He accused me of advancing some sort of creationist argument - he seemed to be totally unfamiliar with this thing called the Ice Age, which rendered the British Isles uninhabitable by depositing a large sheet of ice on them. It was actually his own argument that was pseudo-creationist; apparantly he thought his ancestors sprang fully formed directly from the rocks and soil of Britain.

Score: Dishonorable Scum 1, Idiotic BNP supporter 0 :D

So what gives the Beaker People special privileges, as opposed to the reindeer who ruled the British Isles before them? :p

Amusing historical anecdote: Some years ago on the old NS forum, I got flamed by a neo-Nazi (they infested the forum in those days the way fleas infest a dog) because I pointed out that the British Isles were completely uninhabited as recently as about 8000 BC (based on archaeological evidence), and so therefore everyone in the British Isles were descended from immigrants. He accused me of advancing some sort of creationist argument - he seemed to be totally unfamiliar with this thing called the Ice Age, which rendered the British Isles uninhabitable by depositing a large sheet of ice on them. It was actually his own argument that was pseudo-creationist; apparantly he thought his ancestors sprang fully formed directly from the rocks and soil of Britain.

Score: Dishonorable Scum 1, Idiotic BNP supporter 0 :D
Perhaps he thought you were overlooking the Fomorians?
They settled Ulster, which is part of the UK, after all...

Perhaps he thought you were overlooking the Fomorians?
They settled Ulster, which is part of the UK, after all...

Interestingly enough, if we date the coming of the Fomori to after the end of the flood (ie. ice age) we get a date for their invasion of about 8,000BC, which tallies with the earliest actual human settlers in Ireland and ties them pretty neatly to the start of the Neolithic age, and then if we look at the invasion which came after them - the Partholon - we see that their date tallies pretty closely (give or take a few hundred years) with the start of the Bronze Age... The Book Of Invasions as a history of science and technology...

I get to use this graphic again:
http://www.triton.nu/albums/pics/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again.thumb.jpg

I get to use this graphic again:
http://www.triton.nu/albums/pics/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again.thumb.jpg

Hey, when was the last time we had a good discussion about the Fomorians on NS? Did I sleep through the last one?


Topic drift is a wonderful thing.

Interestingly enough, if we date the coming of the Fomori to after the end of the flood (ie. ice age) we get a date for their invasion of about 8,000BC, which tallies with the earliest actual human settlers in Ireland and ties them pretty neatly to the start of the Neolithic age, and then if we look at the invasion which came after them - the Partholon - we see that their date tallies pretty closely (give or take a few hundred years) with the start of the Bronze Age... The Book Of Invasions as a history of science and technology...
It's alarming to think that some of this stuff might have a historical basis, isn't it?

I thought this thread was about Crayola getting rid of the color
"prussian blue" on the grounds that there wasn't such a country anymore
and thus kids or anybody would have any idea what it meant.

Yeah.
Thanks to Crayola for chipping away at our collective historical memory.

The "Memory Hole" of Winston Smith and 1984 fame,
I've always seen as white washing the past for corporate conveniance , i.e.
profits of today.

It's alarming to think that some of this stuff might have a historical basis, isn't it?

There have always been a number of historians who have maintained that legends and other oral traditions might at times have some basis in reality. Who knows? Perhaps the old tales contain a glimmer of truth. I'm not inclined to dismiss them out of hand.

:p

There have always been a number of historians who have maintained that legends and other oral traditions might at times have some basis in reality. Who knows? Perhaps the old tales contain a glimmer of truth. I'm not inclined to dismiss them out of hand.

:p
I suspect the problem is the extent to which Erich Von Daniken called the whole issue of mythology and folklore into doubt back in the '70s, to be honest. What a wanker that man was. (And still is, if he isn't dead...)

Hmm... I'd never heard of Prussian Blue until they showed up in an update on somethingawful.com... Then, a while later, I noticed they were in a thread here. Now they're in the newspaper. I wonder where those journalists get their stories...

Hmm... I'd never heard of Prussian Blue until they showed up in an update on somethingawful.com... Then, a while later, I noticed they were in a thread here. Now they're in the newspaper. I wonder where those journalists get their stories...
The internet. It's a lot easier than doing research.

There have always been a number of historians who have maintained that legends and other oral traditions might at times have some basis in reality. Who knows? Perhaps the old tales contain a glimmer of truth. I'm not inclined to dismiss them out of hand.

:p

And vice-versa, anthropologists have shown that it can take only one generation for a new oral tradition to go from being newly created to considered as old as time itself...

anyone got a link to any of their songs?

I know this a bit old but here is a joke you can do about those racist girls we all love and hate. Use a picture of Ali and AJ (A crappy cover band duet) and a picture of the girls and cut off the prussian blue in half horizontally and do what peter griffin did at the funeral of mr weed.

I know this a bit old but here is a joke you can do about those racist girls we all love and hate. Use a picture of Ali and AJ (A crappy cover band duet) and a picture of the girls and cut off the prussian blue in half horizontally and do what peter griffin did at the funeral of mr weed.
o...k...

Does the Mother also send them to Eisteddfod
which would be funny to see really

I have just read a disturbing article in the British press (well The Sun!!) about a US pop band with two twin 12 year old girls, who have white supremecy lyrics and have a general far-right stance, including links to far-right groups on their website and a Hitler smilie t-shirt. It said that the girls were educated by their mother, using books from the 1950's and her own dodgy views. My question is, how seriously are people in the US taking them and how many people of that age share their views?

This is old, dude. There were a few threads on this weeks, nay, months ago. We all agree that that shit is FUBAR. I actually saw Greg Giraldo making a joke about that on his show the other day.

Fuckin nazis. Fuck 'em all.

o...k...

In case you are confused, you remember the part where Peter used a hulked version of Jesus in half and slowly raised up the other picture with the hulk them. Basically use prussian blue and some famous dumb blonde duo and we got the same thing.