NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you willingly give up your seat on the bus, or on a bench at a bus stop to the elderly? To pregnant women or people who are disabled (perhaps just with a broken leg, or something that hinders their movement)? Do you hold the door open for the person behind you, or just let it swing shut in their face? Do you rush to open a door for someone heavily burdened with groceries or other objects, or for an elderly person? Do you even notice other people around you when you're out in public?

Forget gender here...I don't expect men to hold the door open for me just because I'm female. I'm fit, I'm young, and unless I am carrying a lot of things, or one of my children, it isn't necessary. If it's done just to keep the door from hitting me in the forehead, then I certainly appreciate it...that is polite. But it really drives me nuts when people steadfastly refuse to have manners, or behave politely towards others. Keeping your seat so the pregnant woman gets to stand...or the elderly man has to hold on for dear life as the bus tosses him about. Spitting directly in front of someone as they walk by you...it may not be directed at them in anger, but it's certainly disgusting and rude.

What breach of manners pisses you off? What manners do you practice on a regular basis?

I would never spit in front of someone, that would just be horribly rude. Instead I spit on them directly, because that shows the kind of personal touch and concern for the individual that has made me so well respected and known in hat eating circles.

*grumbles about rude people not immediately filling this thread with interesting replies...patience being a virtue escapes Sinuhue at this point...*:D

I would never spit in front of someone, that would just be horribly rude. Instead I spit on them directly, because that shows the kind of personal touch and concern for the individual that has made me so well respected and known in hat eating circles.
You are a paragon of virtue!

Yep. I've got manners and I usually put them into practice. An important part of being courteous, IMHO, is to be courteous behind the wheel as well. Make way for faster moving traffic, and signal for both lane changes and turns.

Then again, sometimes I'm in a horrible mood and not holding the door open for someone or driving like a psychotic on crack is the norm. They should, on days like that, be glad I don't just go apeshit on them.

*grumbles about rude people not immediately filling this thread with interesting replies...patience being a virtue escapes Sinuhue at this point...*:D
Are you saying that I'm not interesting? HOW RUDE!
*Pouts and flounces away* (Ever seen a grown man flounce? It isn't pretty.)

My manners really depend on my mood. Most of the time I hold the door and give up my seat etc. But sometimes when I'm feeling really pissed off or whatever my manners will go hide somewhere out of reach.

I HATE it when people chew with their mouths open. Especially men, who seem to do it the most. I also hate it when people scratch their butts in public... but doesn't everyone?

Actually, I have a story about butt-scratching. Today in math class one of the boys went up to my teacher's desk to ask a question about the homework. While she was answering his question, he was scratching his butt. I was gross. And when he was done, another boy went up and did the same thing! By then, most of the class had noticed and was pointing and laughing. Ahh, how I love 8th grade...

I gots mannerz. I duns uses them goodly.

Do you willingly give up your seat on the bus, or on a bench at a bus stop to the elderly? To pregnant women or people who are disabled (perhaps just with a broken leg, or something that hinders their movement)? Do you hold the door open for the person behind you, or just let it swing shut in their face? Do you rush to open a door for someone heavily burdened with groceries or other objects, or for an elderly person? Do you even notice other people around you when you're out in public?

Forget gender here...I don't expect men to hold the door open for me just because I'm female. I'm fit, I'm young, and unless I am carrying a lot of things, or one of my children, it isn't necessary. If it's done just to keep the door from hitting me in the forehead, then I certainly appreciate it...that is polite. But it really drives me nuts when people steadfastly refuse to have manners, or behave politely towards others. Keeping your seat so the pregnant woman gets to stand...or the elderly man has to hold on for dear life as the bus tosses him about. Spitting directly in front of someone as they walk by you...it may not be directed at them in anger, but it's certainly disgusting and rude.

What breach of manners pisses you off? What manners do you practice on a regular basis?
the spitting one pisses me off a lot too, as does people chewing with their mouthes open or talking with food in their gob... its not just rude but it shows a lack of respect for the food and the person being talked to, and not to mention it sounds gross

personally my manners aren't perfect, but i try. i hold the door open for the next person, always. i give up my seat to old people on the bus (but now i have a car i don't have to mwuhahaha), though i don't give up my seat to pregnant women much, though, following an embarrasing incident when i gave up my seat to an apparently preggers woman... who turned out to be a (slighly irate) fat man :headbang:
basically i try to help out other people (the opening doors for people carrying stuff one applies here, as does helping people pick up stuff they've dropped), and i also try to drive with manners :P

that said my mood dictates my manners to a degree - bad mood means bad manners i imagine...

I have manners, but I never use them.

I tend to slam doors in people's faces completely by accident, curse loudly in public, and eat human body parts with my bare hands when I'm really hungry, which is all the time. However, I'm generally courteous enough to kill the person first. Ok, there was that one occasion...but that's the exception, not the rule. ;)

I hate it when people sneeze or cough all over you. Why goddamn it?

My parents were sticklers for manners, and they were known to punish breaches of etiquette - you'd think we were at a moment's notice going to be invited to the Nobel banquette and thus had to be ready to sit next to the king and know how to act without bringing any shame to my mother and father. It still stays with me. :\

I sometimes give up my seat for other people, but generally when they see the blood that has dripped off my assorted weaponry and clothing they refuse the seat, turn slightly pale, and say they're really fine standing. If there's anyone left on the bus by the time I get on, that is. ^.^

I hate it when people sneeze or cough all over you. Why goddamn it?

Eww yeah... Especially the sneezing one. Hey did you know that when you sneeze, the air (and snot) that's coming out of your nose is flying at about 100 mph?

Eh, when it comes to holding open doors and well I am never really one a bus or a subway or anything along those lines, I haven't really had to give up a seat. Plus I am on a college campus so elderly folk and pregnant ladies aren't to typical, I also prefer to walk. How ever when it comes to driving, I try to let faster people be in front and try not to ride slow drivers. When I get cut off...well that's another story.

I like to think so. I say "please" and "thankyou" whenever appropriate...I probably say "thankyou" too much, actually. I hold doors for people, wait patiently for old people etc. And I expect the same back. Pity most people seem to be incapable of it :rolleyes:

Yep. I've got manners and I usually put them into practice. An important part of being courteous, IMHO, is to be courteous behind the wheel as well. Make way for faster moving traffic, and signal for both lane changes and turns.

Then again, sometimes I'm in a horrible mood and not holding the door open for someone or driving like a psychotic on crack is the norm. They should, on days like that, be glad I don't just go apeshit on them.

Driving is absolutely a social exercise...and I think normally polite people sometimes throw manners (and common sense) out the window when driving. I definately try to be a polite driver, and that includes the things you've mentioned, as well as allowing people to merge, or pedestrians to cross (well, you have to really...they have the right of way here) and assorted other things that you do to avoid being shot:)

But sometimes being polite bites you in the ass. If I have a tonne of groceries, I usually let people ahead of me at the check out line if they just have a few items. The other day I did this for a man...then another guy, because I had A LOT of groceries...but then the second guy had an item without a price, and it took forever to get him through. Whatever, I wasn't mad...then this woman comes out of nowhere, with one item, and asks if she can go ahead, then without waiting for an answer (which after 10 minutes of waiting, two cranky kids wanting to leave, was going to be no) she jumps in front of me. Some of my groceries had already been scanned at that point, and they had to be removed so her item could be scanned in...and THEN (murphy's law) when I finally got to go through, everything bagged up and ready to go, the check out girl pushed some button and erased the whole transaction and had to scan everything over again...my god it took half an hour to get out of there, and I felt like an idiot for bothering to be nice. I did, however, refrain from biting the checkout girl's head off. Shit happens, and she wasn't the reason I was angry.

I hate it when people sneeze or cough all over you. Why goddamn it?
Holy crap, yes. I took the train in to work for a couple of weeks this month and it seems half of the people on it were never taught to cover their mouths when they cough. Luckily none of them coughted on me, but they did cough in a sealed train car with me in it.

I remeber having to go to etiquette classes, I learned the how and why or manners and such, but have gotten lazy with them since then. My kids are getting to the age though that I need to be a good example, so I am trying to get better at how I present myself.

As far as opening the door and giving up my seat, those things come pretty naturally to me, table manners and basic ettiquette (hostess gifts, thank you notes) are getting to be things that I fight to remember.

I have vowed to do better, but it isn't easy. Especially when we live in such a casual world that makes it easy to be rude.:(


my most annoying thing I don't really have to deal with anymore because my kids walk now, but people need to realize that those baby carriers are HEAVY

I know that the baby may weigh 8lbs and the carrier 2lbs but together for some unknown reason they weigh 40lbs. GET UP AND GIVE UP YOUR SEAT FOR THE BABY IN THE CARRIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/rant over

I hate it when people sneeze or cough all over you. Why goddamn it?
It's fun to see their reaction.

I regularly hold the door open for someone coming in behind me. When someone does the same for me, I smile and say "Thank you," (something many people don't do when you hold the door open).

I also hold the elevator for people when I see them coming and I am getting on. You don't know how many times I've started to run up to the elevator as I saw people getting on it, only to have the door shut in my face without enough time to shove my hand in and stop the doors. That one tends to bug the hell out of me, especially because the elevators in our building are very slow and, because of inflammation in my knees, I am supposed to avoid stairs.

I don't often ride buses or anything like that so that I might have to give up a seat, but I do so at family functions. My elders get to sit down before I do, and often I'll take a seat on the floor if that is what is left. On the occasions that I have ridded the MARTA (train), I will give up a seat to someone carrying a lot of baggage - generally on their way to the airport, or carrying a child, or elderly, etc. Of course, usually when I'm on the MARTA, I'm the one on my way to the airport, so I'll try for a seat unless someone looks like they need it more than me.

I don't answer a call-waiting call unless I am expecting something really important - and then I tell the person I am already talking to that we may be interrupted.

Shoes on or off when entering a house (I know this is one of your favorites, Sin)? I generally follow the lead of my host. If they remove their shoes at the door, I do so as well. If they don't, I don't worry about it.

Tipping - I pretty much always tip well. I start out at 20% and may drop below that if the service is bad or go above if it is exceptional. If I don't leave at least a 15% tip, the server has done something really, really wrong.

Meanwhile, on the subject of manners - some of the "traditional" manners I really don't bother with. I don't really care if a guy is wearing a hat inside. I don't expect anyone to curb their language around me - although I do expect it if I have a child with me - and I am careful to watch my language around other people's children. I don't care if someone puts their elbows on the table or sets the table incorrectly - in fact, I hate the way the table is "supposed" to be set - the fork is on the wrong side of my plate! =)

Ohh I have another one, though it's not big... I always feel uncomfortable when people comment about my food. Like "Eww what's that?" and "Ugh you like asparagus?!!"

Driving is absolutely a social exercise...and I think normally polite people sometimes throw manners (and common sense) out the window when driving. I definately try to be a polite driver, and that includes the things you've mentioned, as well as allowing people to merge, or pedestrians to cross (well, you have to really...they have the right of way here) and assorted other things that you do to avoid being shot:)

But sometimes being polite bites you in the ass. If I have a tonne of groceries, I usually let people ahead of me at the check out line if they just have a few items. The other day I did this for a man...then another guy, because I had A LOT of groceries...but then the second guy had an item without a price, and it took forever to get him through. Whatever, I wasn't mad...then this woman comes out of nowhere, with one item, and asks if she can go ahead, then without waiting for an answer (which after 10 minutes of waiting, two cranky kids wanting to leave, was going to be no) she jumps in front of me. Some of my groceries had already been scanned at that point, and they had to be removed so her item could be scanned in...and THEN (murphy's law) when I finally got to go through, everything bagged up and ready to go, the check out girl pushed some button and erased the whole transaction and had to scan everything over again...my god it took half an hour to get out of there, and I felt like an idiot for bothering to be nice. I did, however, refrain from biting the checkout girl's head off. Shit happens, and she wasn't the reason I was angry.
Speaking of cutting in line, this passed Sunday I went with some friends to Fright Fest at Six Flags Great Adventure. The lines for the roller coasters averaged about two hours, and some people seemed to think they were going to just cut in front of me. I almost got into two fights. WTF is wrong with people? Do they really think that their time is that much more valuable than everyone else's? Do they really think that I'd let them cut in front of me when I've been waiting for over an hour?

Another pet peeve when being polite...I'm holding open a door for someone, and then fifty people file past, as though it was my job to hold the door for them...people who are perfectly capable of holding it themselves...leaving me there, unable to let it go for fear of beaning someone, and I spend an embarrasing few minutes until I finally get so fed up I forget why I wanted to go in, and just walk away:(

Moral: If someone opens the door for someone who clearly needs it...wait, and let that polite person go through the door too. You can open the door yourself, or catch it when that polite person (very likely) holds it enough for you to get it.

Oh...and I hate it when people make it look like I meant to be polite...I'm with my kids, eldest in a stroller, youngest on my back, and I open a door to go into a store...and people on the other side take it as an invitation to walk through the door, forcing me to hold it open. Like the reverse of my first situation. LIKE I OPENED THE DOOR FOR YOU YOU BLONDE BITCH! NINE INCH HIGH HEELS DO NOT QUALIFY YOU AS DISABLED, JUST IDIOTIC! RAH!

<snip>
Do they really think that their time is that much more valuable than everyone else's? Do they really think that I'd let them cut in front of me when I've been waiting for over an hour?

I have the same problem with the lunch lines at school. I'm just as hungry as everyone else! Just because you're an asshole doesn't mean you can get food before me!

my most annoying thing I don't really have to deal with anymore because my kids walk now, but people need to realize that those baby carriers are HEAVY

I know that the baby may weigh 8lbs and the carrier 2lbs but together for some unknown reason they weigh 40lbs. GET UP AND GIVE UP YOUR SEAT FOR THE BABY IN THE CARRIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/rant over
Oh heavens yes...or just carrying a kid in your arms...moms get used to it...and it's kind of funny when a relative, even a 'strong' one can't carry the same weight for even an eigth of the time, but even still, we get tired. Whether you carry the baby in the front, in your arms, or on your back, you need a rest. Plus, the weight throws you off balance...and falling on your own is one thing...but falling with a baby is scary.

Tipping - I pretty much always tip well. I start out at 20% and may drop below that if the service is bad or go above if it is exceptional. If I don't leave at least a 15% tip, the server has done something really, really wrong.

I don't tip. As far as I'm concerned I've already paid what I was supposed to and if they wanted extra money they should've included it in the original bill.

I have the same problem with the lunch lines at school. I'm just as hungry as everyone else! Just because you're an asshole doesn't mean you can get food before me!
I say next time we give them no warnings. We don't argue with them. We just immediately start beating the crap out of the line jumpers. Who's with me on this?

I have the same problem with the lunch lines at school. I'm just as hungry as everyone else! Just because you're an asshole doesn't mean you can get food before me!

Hehe. I went to stand in line for food today and this guy was standing near the line, but not really in it, so I got in what looked like the back of the line. Then, since it was moving slowly, I kind of looked around and realized he was still standing there, and looking at the line, so I asked, "I'm sorry, did I cut in line?" I was worried that I had offended him and he was just simply not bringing it up. But he was just using the microwave which happened to be near the end of the line, so I was safe. =)

I don't tip. As far as I'm concerned I've already paid what I was supposed to and if they wanted extra money they should've included it in the original bill.
Wow, that way of thinking is completely foreign to me. I always tip and I tip generously. I got into the habit when I worked as a Pizza/drugs delivery man. People who have a reputation for tipping well get better service.

I don't tip. As far as I'm concerned I've already paid what I was supposed to and if they wanted extra money they should've included it in the original bill.

Where do you live? If it is in the US, the wages of the server assume at least a 15% tip. They are paid well below minimum wage. You may not like the system, but by not tipping, you are sending someone home with wages well below what they are working for.

If you are in Europe, then servers are paid normal wages, and the food is simply more expensive.

I don't answer a call-waiting call unless I am expecting something really important - and then I tell the person I am already talking to that we may be interrupted.Good one...I don't bother having call waiting for that reason. It can wait. Plus...please leave a damn message on the machine...don't just hang up! I hate leaving messages too...but come on!


Shoes on or off when entering a house (I know this is one of your favorites, Sin)? I generally follow the lead of my host. If they remove their shoes at the door, I do so as well. If they don't, I don't worry about it. I always take them off...unless I'm in Chile. My mother-in-law always tells me not to, maybe my feet stink, but I like to get out of my shoes anyway.


Tipping - I pretty much always tip well. I start out at 20% and may drop below that if the service is bad or go above if it is exceptional. If I don't leave at least a 15% tip, the server has done something really, really wrong.Ditto. If I don't have the change to tip, I feel like a total ass. I try to have that covered before I go out to eat. But I only tip at restaurants...there aren't any other services I really use that expect tips...oh, except cabs if I take them.

Do you willingly give up your seat on the bus, or on a bench at a bus stop to the elderly? To pregnant women or people who are disabled (perhaps just with a broken leg, or something that hinders their movement)? Do you hold the door open for the person behind you, or just let it swing shut in their face? Do you rush to open a door for someone heavily burdened with groceries or other objects, or for an elderly person? Do you even notice other people around you when you're out in public?

?

yes i do all of the above. Its just common courtesy in my opinion. Which seems to be almost non-existent today.

it bugs the crap out of me when people dont hold the door or say "excuse me" when they almost run over you. manners are important....its a sign of respect for others as well as yourself.

Speaking of cutting in line, this passed Sunday I went with some friends to Fright Fest at Six Flags Great Adventure. The lines for the roller coasters averaged about two hours, and some people seemed to think they were going to just cut in front of me. I almost got into two fights. WTF is wrong with people? Do they really think that their time is that much more valuable than everyone else's? Do they really think that I'd let them cut in front of me when I've been waiting for over an hour?That's like when the store is full, and a new till opens up, and the latecomers grab the spot, leaving people who have been standing in line forever to continue waiting. I really wish the cashiers would step up and tell them to get back in line...I always thank them when they DO do that.

Wow, that way of thinking is completely foreign to me. I always tip and I tip generously. I got into the habit when I worked as a Pizza/drugs delivery man. People who have a reputation for tipping well get better service.
Yup...and that can make a big difference. Plus people who have worked in the service industry tend to tip well...they know what it's like, and the shit you have to deal with. I always went out of my way for people who showed a little consideration, and I appreciate it when a person does the same for me. That deserves tippage.

I say next time we give them no warnings. We don't argue with them. We just immediately start beating the crap out of the line jumpers. Who's with me on this?
Me.

Except, I wouldn't, because with my martial arts abilities I could accidentally kill them.

Wow, that way of thinking is completely foreign to me. I always tip and I tip generously. I got into the habit when I worked as a Pizza/drugs delivery man. People who have a reputation for tipping well get better service.
I guess it's because I don't come from America or any place where it's customary.

Where do you live? If it is in the US, the wages of the server assume at least a 15% tip. They are paid well below minimum wage. You may not like the system, but by not tipping, you are sending someone home with wages well below what they are working for.

If you are in Europe, then servers are paid normal wages, and the food is simply more expensive.
America should just stop that. What is the piont?

Hmm, I seem to swear accidentally. I was on the train today and the ticket inspector asked for my ticket (which I couldn't find) so I said "what the fuck?" quite audibly. I found the ticket though; then he went into the next carriage, the first class one, where there were these yobs who hadn't paid and they got thrown off. That pleased me greatly.

I always hold the door open for people and say please and thank you, as well as offering my seat up for any pregnant women or struggling old people. However, as a matter of principle I don't give up my seat for people who are clearly perfectly physically able and on the younger end of being an O.A.P. As far as i'm concerned you shouldn't get extra perks for being lucky enough to have had a long life unless you need it. I've had too many bad experiences with old women seemingly expecting to be treated like princesses.

I do a lot of those things, hold doors and give up seats-the whole bit. I don't like being an asshole, which is how I feel if I don't.

Story though-

I was riding a bus in San Francisco once, it was crowded as hell. My buddy wound up sitting in the front and I was toward the back, past the second side door almost to the end. People get on, one of them an elderly lady. She goes past all the front seats that have signs over them instructing passengers to surrender thier seats to the elderly and handicapped, including the seat that had opened up since I got on, walks all the way back to me where she stops with purpose and tells me to give up my seat. I didn't say anything, I didn't hesitate, I simply got up. Whatever, she has a favorite seat, I guess. I did look forward as I got up to see why she wouldn't have been able to get one of the more easily accessable seats, but that was quick and about it. So I gave her my seat without conflict, but she was already ramped up so my lack of participation in the fight was not going to deture her. "You're supposed to give these seats up for the elderly, you know. It's the law," she scolded from her newly seated position. I couldn't do anything but look at her, wait for her to get it all out and then go back to looking for my stop. Stunned. Everyone just looked forward, I think coming to the same conclusion I did-let it ride, man. Let it ride.

Regarding the traffic, there are times I wish I had a picture of a zipper on my car that I could light up and make a bell sound during merging. One then one and traffic never slows down to badly. Bastards. And if we're already in traffic how bad is it really that your behind a VW Bus? I think it can handle 15mph, thank you very much...

As much as it might surprise a few people here, I'm remarkably civil in most public situations. Yeah, I'll get out of my seat on the bus if I happen to be sitting in a handicapped area or if no other seats are available [but not if I'm way in the back and $OLD_BROAD walked past 20 open seats to get to me]: like everything else I do such actions are governed by their adherance to reason.

And yes, I do [gasp!] hold doors open for people because it doesn't really hold me up and I hate it when people don't extend the same courtesy to me. I give accurate directions when asked and I always make it a point to stop on greenlights if trying to go through means gridlock. Please don't faint.

Oddly enough, I generally tip too, but only because I've worked in the service industry for three years now and I know it sucks, and I would vastly prefer to be served food that doesn't have a big 'ol loogie in it should I decide to come back. Also, being that I'm employed as a delivery driver, not tipping and expecting tips would be the height of hypocrisy.

Let's see... I take the underground a lot, I always hold the door on the way in or out if there's someone behind me (whatever their age and gender), and it always annoys me when people act as if it were perfectly normal, and they don't bother to say 'thank you'. One of these days, I'm going to slam it back into their face.

The thing that pisses me off most is people who stand unmoving on the left side of the automated stair things ('escalators' in French; I have no idea what you call them in English). If you want to stand still, stay on the right. The left part is for people who want to keep walking, damn you! At least, that's the way it is in France.

Oh, and people have also commented that I say "thank you" too often. But then, from my perspective, most people don't say it enough.

Wow, that way of thinking is completely foreign to me. I always tip and I tip generously. I got into the habit when I worked as a Pizza/drugs delivery man. People who have a reputation for tipping well get better service.
Nobody here tips really...I suppose it's because stuff is expensive enough, the staff are generally on a decent enough wage anyway. Might leave a pound after a meal, but nothing much

Hmm, I seem to swear accidentally. I was on the train today and the ticket inspector asked for my ticket (which I couldn't find) so I said "what the fuck?" quite audibly. I found the ticket though; then he went into the next carriage, the first class one, where there were these yobs who hadn't paid and they got thrown off. That pleased me greatly.

I also, on the train today, couldn't stop laughing at the old lady who went into the toilet because I knew that there was no toilet paper; it was really awkward.

America should just stop that. What is the piont?
The point is pressure to get rid of minimum wage regulations, and free market liberalisation...coming to a country near you. Putting the onus on the consumer, not the employer, and making sure that working a service job doesn't actually earn you enough money to live above the poverty line. (hey, let's get rid of that too...makes things look better).

*I'm speaking for Canada too here folks...not just US bashing.

The thing that pisses me off most is people who stand unmoving on the left side of the automated stair things ('escalators' in French; I have no idea what you call them in English). If you want to stand still, stay on the right. The left part is for people who want to keep walking, damn you! At least, that's the way it is in France.


In english it's 'escalator.' And slower traffic in all situations needs to keep right. That bugs me and I usually just ride instead of climb and ride, but it irks me when there's some other cat a little bit up from me standing on the left thus making us both an obstacle. I usually start walking when that happens so at least one path will be clear.

As much as it might surprise a few people here, I'm remarkably civil in most public situations.
It's okay, Melkor...I still love you despite this.

Do you willingly give up your seat on the bus, or on a bench at a bus stop to the elderly? To pregnant women or people who are disabled (perhaps just with a broken leg, or something that hinders their movement)? Do you hold the door open for the person behind you, or just let it swing shut in their face? Do you rush to open a door for someone heavily burdened with groceries or other objects, or for an elderly person? Do you even notice other people around you when you're out in public?

Forget gender here...I don't expect men to hold the door open for me just because I'm female. I'm fit, I'm young, and unless I am carrying a lot of things, or one of my children, it isn't necessary. If it's done just to keep the door from hitting me in the forehead, then I certainly appreciate it...that is polite. But it really drives me nuts when people steadfastly refuse to have manners, or behave politely towards others. Keeping your seat so the pregnant woman gets to stand...or the elderly man has to hold on for dear life as the bus tosses him about. Spitting directly in front of someone as they walk by you...it may not be directed at them in anger, but it's certainly disgusting and rude.

What breach of manners pisses you off? What manners do you practice on a regular basis?
I generaly make an effort to exercise politesse when I'm dealing with real people face to face.
Dealing with self righteous American neocons/Libertarians/anti-Darwinists on the internet is a whole different proposition though. Particularly when they start bitching about an internet board they seem to have the run of being dominated by evil Liberals who want to let the terrorists win...

on tipping:

when i was a server, the wage was $2.13 an hour. Its like $2.20 now maybe-i dunno, but after taxes, my paycheck was about $35. who can live off of that? we depended on our tips. plus, we have to pay taxes on the tips. so say i claimed 400 bucks for the week in tips....they take the tax on 400 bucks and take it out of my 2.13 an hour wage. so yeah-i tip like a mofo...i know what its like

Me.

Except, I wouldn't, because with my martial arts abilities I could accidentally kill them.
Meh, I'm trained too. Don't you know any nice limb destructions and joint locks? Maybe you only trained in striking?

It's okay, Melkor...I still love you despite this.
Hooray! I was afraid it'd shatter my image.

Let's see... I take the underground a lot, I always hold the door on the way in or out if there's someone behind me (whatever their age and gender), and it always annoys me when people act as if it were perfectly normal, and they don't bother to say 'thank you'. One of these days, I'm going to slam it back into their face. Agreed! NOTICE POLITENESS AND REWARD IT WITH A THANKYOU if you really want it to continue!

The thing that pisses me off most is people who stand unmoving on the left side of the automated stair things ('escalators' in French; I have no idea what you call them in English). If you want to stand still, stay on the right. The left part is for people who want to keep walking, damn you! At least, that's the way it is in France.

This is a pet peeve of mine as well. Especially when I was going to University, coming off the train. People just lazily standing there talking, while impatient, late students, are forced to stand behind them. LEFT IS FOR PASSING PEOPLE! When I can't move (because I have my daugther beside me, I make sure and wait until I can tell I'm going to be close to the top (or bottom) before anyone would be able to pass us anyway.

I also, on the train today, couldn't stop laughing at the old lady who went into the toilet because I knew that there was no toilet paper; it was really awkward.
That's mean:(

I try to warn people if there is no toilet paper...or leave some from another stall if I've used the last.

Story though-

I was riding a bus in San Francisco once, it was crowded as hell. My buddy wound up sitting in the front and I was toward the back, past the second side door almost to the end. People get on, one of them an elderly lady. She goes past all the front seats that have signs over them instructing passengers to surrender thier seats to the elderly and handicapped, including the seat that had opened up since I got on, walks all the way back to me where she stops with purpose and tells me to give up my seat. I didn't say anything, I didn't hesitate, I simply got up. Whatever, she has a favorite seat, I guess. I did look forward as I got up to see why she wouldn't have been able to get one of the more easily accessable seats, but that was quick and about it. So I gave her my seat without conflict, but she was already ramped up so my lack of participation in the fight was not going to deture her. "You're supposed to give these seats up for the elderly, you know. It's the law," she scolded from her newly seated position. I couldn't do anything but look at her, wait for her to get it all out and then go back to looking for my stop. Stunned. Everyone just looked forward, I think coming to the same conclusion I did-let it ride, man. Let it ride.

Once upon a time, I worked at a Wendy's. Wendy's (or at least the one I worked at) has a policy that the elderly get a 10% discount. That was more of a test in manners than it may sound. Sometimes, someone would look elderly, and I would give them the discount, and then they would get their ticket and ask about it - sometimes rather offended. Other times, I wouldn't automatically add it, and then people would complain that they didn't get it (we always added it then).

There was one lady who came in just about every day. She always seemed like she was in a bad mood. She would order off the 99 cent menu - usually some chili, a large drink, and a sandwich, and then would end her order with, "And give me my 10%!" Funny thing is, I ran into the same lady when I was in the restaurant with friends (not working). Standing in line, she was perfectly polite and seemed to be in a good mood. Made me wonder if she just figured she could be nasty to people in the service industry because those are the people you can take it out on?

on tipping:

when i was a server, the wage was $2.13 an hour. Its like $2.20 now maybe-i dunno, but after taxes, my paycheck was about $35. who can live off of that? we depended on our tips. plus, we have to pay taxes on the tips. so say i claimed 400 bucks for the week in tips....they take the tax on 400 bucks and take it out of my 2.13 an hour wage. so yeah-i tip like a mofo...i know what its like
I can't believe the government has the balls to tax tips. I have to declare them too now, and the practice is, under the circumstances, quite completely insane. Still, I'm remarkably sympathetic to Mister Pink's sentiments on tipping expressed in the opening scene of Reservior Dogs.

Agreed! NOTICE POLITENESS AND REWARD IT WITH A THANKYOU if you really want it to continue!


This is a pet peeve of mine as well. Especially when I was going to University, coming off the train. People just lazily standing there talking, while impatient, late students, are forced to stand behind them. LEFT IS FOR PASSING PEOPLE! When I can't move (because I have my daugther beside me, I make sure and wait until I can tell I'm going to be close to the top (or bottom) before anyone would be able to pass us anyway.
From what I can recall of using the London Underground it's the other way around over here: people stand on the left and let the escalator go at its own speed while those in a hurry rush past on the right.

I can't believe the government has the balls to tax tips. I have to declare them too now, and the practice is, under the circumstances, quite completely insane. Still, I'm remarkably sympathetic to Mister Pink's sentiments on tipping expressed in the opening scene of Reservior Dogs.

now i gotta watch it again (its been waaay long ago) to hear that line.

on tipping:

when i was a server, the wage was $2.13 an hour. Its like $2.20 now maybe-i dunno, but after taxes, my paycheck was about $35. who can live off of that? we depended on our tips. plus, we have to pay taxes on the tips. so say i claimed 400 bucks for the week in tips....they take the tax on 400 bucks and take it out of my 2.13 an hour wage. so yeah-i tip like a mofo...i know what its like
Holy shit! How is that legal? At least we had minimum wage...which is still crap wage!

I wish that the cost was just included in the bill...often I can't get reimbursed for tips if I'm on business...and that sucks.

on tipping:

when i was a server, the wage was $2.13 an hour. Its like $2.20 now maybe-i dunno, but after taxes, my paycheck was about $35. who can live off of that? we depended on our tips. plus, we have to pay taxes on the tips. so say i claimed 400 bucks for the week in tips....they take the tax on 400 bucks and take it out of my 2.13 an hour wage. so yeah-i tip like a mofo...i know what its like
That's just wrong. You even have to pay tax on your tips!? Last I heard the minimum wage in England was £4.50 an hour but I think it's risen since. I'd tip in America but only because I'm to subservient to say no but in England you don't get it much. Occasionally I get it off the odd pizza delivery but the pizza where I live is god-awful and over-priced.

on tipping:

when i was a server, the wage was $2.13 an hour. Its like $2.20 now maybe-i dunno, but after taxes, my paycheck was about $35. who can live off of that? we depended on our tips. plus, we have to pay taxes on the tips. so say i claimed 400 bucks for the week in tips....they take the tax on 400 bucks and take it out of my 2.13 an hour wage. so yeah-i tip like a mofo...i know what its like
As a Slacker a lot of my social energy is spent making sure that everyone around me is relaxed so that they don't f'up my mojo. One of the chief ways I do that is tip like I don't know math (overtip). First, it's because when they see my slovenly ass they assume I'm not going to tip at all, and if I ever want to see a soda refill I have to dispell that notion. Second, because they handle my food, dammit. I ain't takin' any chances. Third, I consider them brothers and sisters in arms and by tipping them heavy I feel like I'm looking after my own. I've never been a server but I've had shit jobs where I've had to deal with a steady stream of public and the only salve for those dickweeds that think paying the store through you $15 bucks also carries a license to abuse the clerk is someone who treats you like a human being.

So I tip like crazy. Sometimes even when the service is bad so it'll be good next time 'round.

I also try really hard not to make anyone else have to deal with extra hassle, even if it is thier job. I don't want to be a vessel for suckage.

Once upon a time, I worked at a Wendy's. Wendy's (or at least the one I worked at) has a policy that the elderly get a 10% discount. That was more of a test in manners than it may sound. Sometimes, someone would look elderly, and I would give them the discount, and then they would get their ticket and ask about it - sometimes rather offended. Other times, I wouldn't automatically add it, and then people would complain that they didn't get it (we always added it then).

There was one lady who came in just about every day. She always seemed like she was in a bad mood. She would order off the 99 cent menu - usually some chili, a large drink, and a sandwich, and then would end her order with, "And give me my 10%!" Funny thing is, I ran into the same lady when I was in the restaurant with friends (not working). Standing in line, she was perfectly polite and seemed to be in a good mood. Made me wonder if she just figured she could be nasty to people in the service industry because those are the people you can take it out on?
In which case, it's a truly hideous attitude to cultivate. I hope she gets her food spat in a lot...

I've got some pretty damn awesome manners. If I'm rather annoyed, however, their finer points tend to evaporate.

SPITTING! UGH! I hate people who spit. They should put back the signs on the buses saying "Please do not expectorate", because there's obviously a need for them again. :mad:

Agreed! NOTICE POLITENESS AND REWARD IT WITH A THANKYOU if you really want it to continue!
I'm going to have to disagree with this. While it's nice to say 'thanks' or to, as you put it 'reward' politeness, mandating it as a requisite for civility is absurd. People should be civil anyway; thanking people for acting like real fucking human beings would be tantamount to thanking a baker for selling bread (you can [and probably ought to] say it anyway, but even if you don't it should be expected that he will continue to sell bread). Civility should be expected [as you practice it too] and it should be considered the normal state of human affairs. In my experience, an utter lack of manners or civility--whie not uncommon--is certainly not the norm. I don't reward people for acting as they're supposed to act.

I use them where appropriate. I have a wonderful phone manner, and I know what to do (and what not to do) at a dinner-table, amongst other things.

*snip*
Seniors can be very rude. And that senior's discount...we had it at the liquor store too...they always made a huge deal about it like you were going to rip them off. And when I worked at places that had no senior's discount, they always made it my problem...like I was discriminating against them.

I dislike elderly people who immediately act rudely towards young people...especially 'weird' looking young people.

Then again, I plan on using old age to get out all my rudeness too. I'll count out pennies in the express lane, or cut out coupons to use...I'll refuse to wear pants...I'll wrap myself in an afghan, sit in an rocking chair on the porch and shoot dogs and children with a bb gun if they come into my yard...I'll be querelous, sit so close to the steering wheel that I'll be barely able to see over it, drive by gas/brake/gas/brake method...shoplift and claim I have alzheimers, squeeze the cheeks of random young men (and I don't mean on their faces), take my teeth out whenever I need a laugh...oh yeah. It's going to be sweet!

Holy shit! How is that legal? At least we had minimum wage...which is still crap wage!

Like I said, tips are assumed here. Some restaurants - the ones where tips are often low - guarrantee minimum wage (as in, if you don't get enough tips to bring you up to it, they pay the rest). However, very few, if any, restaurants above the pizza parlor level do that. They simply assume you make enough tips to get minimum wage.

Of course, I would point out that no server I have ever known actually claims all of their tips once they have gotten above that level. I've known people who only claimed their credit card tips (since you pretty much have to). At the last restaurant I worked at, we were required to claim 15% tips - or credit card tips, whichever was higher. They never actually counted our tips though. Of course, at that restaurant, we actually had a rather large automatic tip-out to the bartenders and bussers, so we didn't even get all of our tips anyways.

I wish that the cost was just included in the bill...often I can't get reimbursed for tips if I'm on business...and that sucks.

I do too. Believe it or not, I think I've found something that Melkor and I agree on. I think that tips [i]should[/b] be extra for a job well-done. However, that simply isn't how it works here, and I'm not going to send some server home to Ramen noodles just because I want to be cheap.

Holy shit! How is that legal? At least we had minimum wage...which is still crap wage!

I wish that the cost was just included in the bill...often I can't get reimbursed for tips if I'm on business...and that sucks.


in california (and i'd guess new york too) the wage for servers is up in the $5 range. but the law is that employees must make at least minimum wage....so under service laws, they "Assume" that the remainder of the minimum wage will be made up in gratuities. hence they have to report the tips they make, to ensure they are making minimum, but then of course they taxe the hell out of the tips. sigh...

if you drop below 8% of your sales (if you sell $5000 in food for the week, you should claim at least $400 in tips) the IRS can get suspicious and you can actually get audited inside the establishment. I used to be a manager for red lobster and i saw firsthand an audit on a server....it was unbelievable! during an audit, you cant touch the money. the auditor collects the money from the customer and makes the transaction then returns the credit card or change. they keep your tips until the shift is over, then sit with you and do a reconciliation. its awful.

hope this wasnt hijacking..sorry sin

I can't believe the government has the balls to tax tips. I have to declare them too now, and the practice is, under the circumstances, quite completely insane. Still, I'm remarkably sympathetic to Mister Pink's sentiments on tipping expressed in the opening scene of Reservior Dogs.
Don't think of not claiming close to the real amount either. They WILL take the time, effort, and expense of investigating you. A coworker ended up being forced to pay back taxes on tips she hadn't claimed:(

From what I can recall of using the London Underground it's the other way around over here: people stand on the left and let the escalator go at its own speed while those in a hurry rush past on the right.
That's because people also drive on the wrong side of the road there:)

on tipping:

when i was a server, the wage was $2.13 an hour. Its like $2.20 now maybe-i dunno, but after taxes, my paycheck was about $35. who can live off of that? we depended on our tips. plus, we have to pay taxes on the tips. so say i claimed 400 bucks for the week in tips....they take the tax on 400 bucks and take it out of my 2.13 an hour wage. so yeah-i tip like a mofo...i know what its like

I don't understand - don't the minimum wage laws apply? People usually tip about 10% and leave a whole number of pounds in the UK, although some places put a service charge on the bill.

EDIT: Ooops, just noticed two replies to the minimum wage law thing. Sorry, ignore the first question.

[QUOTE=snip.[/QUOTE]

i'd have given you A+service doll:fluffle: .....some of the best tips i ever got were from tables that the other servers thought would be lousy tips....moms with kids, teenagers, people who may have come out to eat in their work clothes, etc. i always thought that was bad manners to not wanna wait on a table because they "looked" like bad tippers. pfft....some of the lusiest tips came from the fancy rich folks!

I'm going to have to disagree with this. While it's nice to say 'thanks' or to, as you put it 'reward' politeness, mandating it as a requisite for civility is absurd. People should be civil anyway; thanking people for acting like real fucking human beings would be tantamount to thanking a baker for selling bread (you can [and probably ought to] say it anyway, but even if you don't it should be expected that he will continue to sell bread). Civility should be expected [as you practice it too] and it should be considered the normal state of human affairs. In my experience, an utter lack of manners or civility--whie not uncommon--is certainly not the norm. I don't reward people for acting as they're supposed to act.
Why do you always assume that I am advocating FORCING people to do something? No! But in my mind...if you open a door for someone, and they ignore your very existance, that's just friggin' rude! And no doubt, you, the rude bastard who just assumed I'd open the door for your highness, will go on to complain later that day about how rude people are. Well...smarten up, at least mumble a thanks, or make eye contact, or smile, or SOMETHING, and people will probably go out of their way to be nice to you again. FUCKERS!

You in this case does not mean you, by the way.

AND...when someone thanks me for or at least acknowledges my act, I want to do it again for someone else. When it is ignored, I feel like a servant, and tend to get all bitter. I think most people feel this way.

That's because people also drive on the wrong side of the road there:)
Quite probably.

now i gotta watch it again (its been waaay long ago) to hear that line.
He basically says that he doesn't tip because its fucked up that society tells us to "tip these people over here, but not to tip those people over there." When pressed, he admits that it's fucked up that the government taxes tips, and if they "put it on ballot I'll vote for it, but if there's one thing I won't do, it's play ball." He continues, explaining that when he had a minimum wage job, he wasn't lucky enough to have one that society deemed tip-worthy.

Basically his point is that there's a lot of attention given to waitresses due to the manner of their plight [a lot of unwed mothers are waitresses], but it sucks a lot worse in most ways to have a low-paying, non-tipped job like in a fast food restaurant or a grocery store. Since tips are volunatry, he argues, he shouldn't be obligated to pay them. And he's right.

In the end, however, he relents and tips because Joe paid for breakfast, with the caveat that he would never do it under normal circumstances.

Once upon a time, I worked at a Wendy's. Wendy's (or at least the one I worked at) has a policy that the elderly get a 10% discount. That was more of a test in manners than it may sound. Sometimes, someone would look elderly, and I would give them the discount, and then they would get their ticket and ask about it - sometimes rather offended. Other times, I wouldn't automatically add it, and then people would complain that they didn't get it (we always added it then).

There was one lady who came in just about every day. She always seemed like she was in a bad mood. She would order off the 99 cent menu - usually some chili, a large drink, and a sandwich, and then would end her order with, "And give me my 10%!" Funny thing is, I ran into the same lady when I was in the restaurant with friends (not working). Standing in line, she was perfectly polite and seemed to be in a good mood. Made me wonder if she just figured she could be nasty to people in the service industry because those are the people you can take it out on?
I sold tickets to a Shakespeare Festival that had a senior discount. You'd get people who where loaded, who had made donations that would get snippy about thier senior discount. That was kind of a 'whatever' deal. (It was part of what prompted me to say things like "What's the point of donating if I don't get something," but that's a whole other thing). The worst was when we'd do phone orders, which was the bulk of the ticket sales, and we'd get all the way to the total for thier order and then they'd get angry about not getting thier senior discount. I guess because I'm supposed to be able to hear that they are over 62 (yes, sometimes you can tell, but still...). It only ever really bothered me when they acted as if I get to pocket the difference between and adult ticket and a senior ticket and was trying to get over on them.

I should say that this is a minority of the seniors I dealt with for that by a long shot. Most of the people where cool.

Why do you always assume that I am advocating FORCING people to do something? No! But in my mind...if you open a door for someone, and they ignore your very existance, that's just friggin' rude! And no doubt, you, the rude bastard who just assumed I'd open the door for your highness, will go on to complain later that day about how rude people are. Well...smarten up, at least mumble a thanks, or make eye contact, or smile, or SOMETHING, and people will probably go out of their way to be nice to you again. FUCKERS!
I was responding cheifly to Arridia's sentiments rather than yours, but for some reason I ended up quoting your response instead of the actual point you were responding to.

Also, most people you see in the course of a day [especially if you live in a city] you won't see again. Since most people actually do end up thanking you or what-not, the one or two who don't probably won't drive you to ignore everyone else completely. Those one or two probably won't encounter you again anyway, and even if they do there's only a remote chance that you'd recognize them, depending on the degree of their offense of course.

I was responding cheifly to Arridia's sentiments rather than yours, but for some reason I ended up quoting your response instead of the actual point you were responding to.

Also, most people you see in the course of a day [especially if you live in a city] you won't see again. Since most people actually do end up thanking you or what-not, the one or two who don't probably won't drive you to ignore everyone else completely. Those one or two probably won't encounter you again anyway, and even if they do there's only a remote chance that you'd recognize them, depending on the degree of their offense of course.
Ok...that's entirely reasonable *disappointed*. In any case, when someone does something nice for me, I feel good about thanking them, I feel good that they feel good that I thanked them, and happy happy joy feelings abound. It's so much better than bitterness. Not as fun sometimes...but oh well:)

Okay, I need to free up the phone and actually get some work done. That's me being polite, and letting you know that I'm leaving so you can go ahead and say terrible things about me without needing to feel bad:fluffle:

Meh, I'm trained too. Don't you know any nice limb destructions and joint locks? Maybe you only trained in striking?
No, I know about that kind of thing...

Okay, I need to free up the phone and actually get some work done. That's me being polite, and letting you know that I'm leaving so you can go ahead and say terrible things about me without needing to feel bad:fluffle:
I can't think of anything bad to say about you, but I don't want to disappoint you so... ;)

I think lack of manners in people today, especially children and teens, is one reason why there is no respect for civilization, other people and for oneself. What's the deal with teenagers swearing at other people, yelling at the elderly, walking down the middle of a street and not moving out of the way of oncoming vehicles. Sure I was obnoxious when I was a teenager but I didn'st disprespect adults, especially the elderly.

Last week on two different occasions I held a door open for two different people, one of them a woman pushing a baby carriage. I didn't get a thank you from either one.

And what's the deal with drivers not giving you the wave, or at least a nod, when you let them into your lane. I hate that and want to take back my gesture if they don't acknowledge my politeness.

I won't even get into parents who let their children run and scream in a restaurant or, even worse, a movie theatre, doh........:mad:

I think lack of manners in people today, especially children and teens, is one reason why there is no respect for civilization, other people and for oneself. What's the deal with teenagers swearing at other people, yelling at the elderly, walking down the middle of a street and not moving out of the way of oncoming vehicles. Sure I was obnoxious when I was a teenager but I didn'st disprespect adults, especially the elderly.
Except that as a general rule, teenagers don't actually go out of their way to "swear at" other people, excepting of course other teenagers. I don't know where all this "yelling at the elderly" is taking place, but considering their voting habits, I might like to find out.

As for not moving out of the way when I'm trying to turn off of a busy-ass road, who knows. I drive stick, so when this happens I just keep turning, drop into neutral, and rev my engine at them. Unless they're wearing headphones, this gets their attention. Still, I believe this phenomenon is attributed chiefly to stupidity rather than rudeness. When someone does this, "You're rude!" isn't generally the first thing out of my mouth.

Last week on two different occasions I held a door open for two different people, one of them a woman pushing a baby carriage. I didn't get a thank you from either one.

And what's the deal with drivers not giving you the wave, or at least a nod, when you let them into your lane. I hate that and want to take back my gesture if they don't acknowledge my politeness.
See This post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9834964#post9834964) and its followup.

I won't even get into parents who let their children run and scream in a restaurant or, even worse, a movie theatre, doh........:mad:
Yeah, that shit drives me nuts. I've always wanted to do like Brian does in that one episode of Family Guy where he starts shouting "WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!" at the child and it's parents. "YOU JUST TUNE THIS OUT DON'T YOU?!" Priceless.

Seniors can be very rude.

Damn right they can.

Two weeks ago I decided to go running in the hills, about half way round I spied a group of old women slowley making their way up the narrow pass - emphasise narrow because they were effectivley blocking the path. In order to get past them I moved off the pass into what can only be described as a mix between bog land and rocks and sped around them (making sure I was not close enough to spray them with mud). After I had passed them the one at the front shouted at me "For goodness' sake! Have you no manners? You could have said excuse me!".
This she shouted at me despite the fact that I had said excuse me several times (and been blatantly ignored by one of them), despite the fact that the woman doing the shouting had even turned round while I was making my approach and seen me - and may I add made no effort to move to one side or inform the rest of her herd.
So there you go, it's bad manners to go out of your way to avoid rude old people apparently. I would also like to add that it is good manners to keep an eye out for other people who may need past you when you are blocking the only path.

Damn right they can.

Two weeks ago I decided to go running in the hills, about half way round I spied a group of old women slowley making their way up the narrow pass - emphasise narrow because they were effectivley blocking the path. In order to get past them I moved off the pass into what can only be described as a mix between bog land and rocks and sped around them (making sure I was not close enough to spray them with mud). After I had passed them the one at the front shouted at me "For goodness' sake! Have you no manners? You could have said excuse me!".
This she shouted at me despite the fact that I had said excuse me several times (and been blatantly ignored by one of them), despite the fact that the woman doing the shouting had even turned round while I was making my approach and seen me - and may I add made no effort to move to one side or inform the rest of her herd.
So there you go, it's bad manners to go out of your way to avoid rude old people apparently. I would also like to add that it is good manners to keep an eye out for other people who may need past you when you are blocking the only path.
Did you actually reply to this mad old bag, or merely bite your tongue?

Did you actually reply to this mad old bag, or merely bite your tongue?

Normally I'm super polite (I even say sorry to people who bump into me), but on this occassion I did slow down for a moment and considered spouting some abuse. I thought better of it though and kept running, using my new found anger to propell me.

Apparently they're forecasting quite a harsh winter this year...

Normally I'm super polite (I even say sorry to people who bump into me), but on this occassion I did slow down for a moment and considered spouting some abuse. I thought better of it though and kept running, using my new found anger to propell me.

Apparently they're forecasting quite a harsh winter this year...
Maybe it'll thin out a few of these old gits then.

He basically says that he doesn't tip because its fucked up that society tells us to "tip these people over here, but not to tip those people over there." When pressed, he admits that it's fucked up that the government taxes tips, and if they "put it on ballot I'll vote for it, but if there's one thing I won't do, it's play ball." He continues, explaining that when he had a minimum wage job, he wasn't lucky enough to have one that society deemed tip-worthy.

The difference, of course, being that being a waitress is not a minimum wage job in this country, unless you work at a 4-star restaurant or something along those lines. In most cases, you are looiking at a job that pays about 1/2 of minimum wage.

Basically his point is that there's a lot of attention given to waitresses due to the manner of their plight [a lot of unwed mothers are waitresses], but it sucks a lot worse in most ways to have a low-paying, non-tipped job like in a fast food restaurant or a grocery store.

Both a fast food restaurant worker and a worker at a grocery store get at least minimum wage - usually for much less work than a server.

Since tips are volunatry, he argues, he shouldn't be obligated to pay them. And he's right.

This is true. But the way to fix the system would be to make it mandatory to pay servers minimum wage before tips - and just up the price of the food a bit to pay for it.

I try to be the gentleman always, and for the most part I am told I am. Personally, rude people, and those who lack the decency to thank you really irritate me. As, incidentally, do old people who go shopping at the weekend, since they clog up the shop, take an utter eternity, and have all bloody week free to shop anyway.:mad:

Do you willingly give up your seat on the bus, or on a bench at a bus stop to the elderly? To pregnant women or people who are disabled (perhaps just with a broken leg, or something that hinders their movement)? Do you hold the door open for the person behind you, or just let it swing shut in their face? Do you rush to open a door for someone heavily burdened with groceries or other objects, or for an elderly person? Do you even notice other people around you when you're out in public?

Forget gender here...I don't expect men to hold the door open for me just because I'm female. I'm fit, I'm young, and unless I am carrying a lot of things, or one of my children, it isn't necessary. If it's done just to keep the door from hitting me in the forehead, then I certainly appreciate it...that is polite. But it really drives me nuts when people steadfastly refuse to have manners, or behave politely towards others. Keeping your seat so the pregnant woman gets to stand...or the elderly man has to hold on for dear life as the bus tosses him about. Spitting directly in front of someone as they walk by you...it may not be directed at them in anger, but it's certainly disgusting and rude.

What breach of manners pisses you off? What manners do you practice on a regular basis?

I do all of those things. I also apologize for people being hurt by my actions even if their 'injury' was not a reasonably expected result. I almost always leave good tips, am friendly with service people and try to pick up before the maid comes to clean up my hotel room (I travel for a living). I say please and thank you and bless you when people sneeze. I try to remember to ask people for things rather than order them about even if they work for me. I think doing these things make a sizable impact on the world and at the wrong time or place poor manners can have a grave effect on your family and your life. I think there are few reasons to be impolite and I rarely encounter them.

I think it's a shame that manners are no longer stressed in most homes in America. I think it makes America a less pleasant place to live.

I think lack of manners in people today, especially children and teens, is one reason why there is no respect for civilization, other people and for oneself. What's the deal with teenagers swearing at other people, yelling at the elderly, walking down the middle of a street and not moving out of the way of oncoming vehicles. Sure I was obnoxious when I was a teenager but I didn'st disprespect adults, especially the elderly.

Last week on two different occasions I held a door open for two different people, one of them a woman pushing a baby carriage. I didn't get a thank you from either one.

And what's the deal with drivers not giving you the wave, or at least a nod, when you let them into your lane. I hate that and want to take back my gesture if they don't acknowledge my politeness.

I won't even get into parents who let their children run and scream in a restaurant or, even worse, a movie theatre, doh........:mad:

I think it's unfortunate if your reasoning for being polite is to have it acknowledged. How about you continue to be polite because it makes the world a better place to be in and hope that your attitude is contagious?

I try to be the gentleman always, and for the most part I am told I am. Personally, rude people, and those who lack the decency to thank you really irritate me. As, incidentally, do old people who go shopping at the weekend, since they clog up the shop, take an utter eternity, and have all bloody week free to shop anyway.:mad:
They spend the rest of the week in the post office...

They spend the rest of the week in the post office...

No, its bloody true. I spent agood hour buying one packet of soding alcaseltzers last saturday, behind 7 elderly couples in the cue, who counted out the exact change for a hideous amount of money.

.... After I had passed them the one at the front shouted at me "For goodness' sake! Have you no manners? You could have said excuse me!".
This she shouted at me despite the fact that I had said excuse me several times (and been blatantly ignored by one of them), despite the fact that the woman doing the shouting had even turned round while I was making my approach and seen me - and may I add made no effort to move to one side or inform the rest of her herd.

It may be that they were too hard of hearing to hear you say "excuse me", although there is no excuse for them to be rude to you.

I really hate people who take more than ther maximum items allowed into the express lane at a grocery store. Doh! And what about the people who think that 20 of the sames things count as one item.

I don't know about other countries but here in the Great White North I'm constantly waiting behind people buying lottery tickets. Damn, I hate those people. If you're spending $100 a week on lottery tickets you'll probably get rich faster by investing that $100 instead!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you willingly give up your seat on the bus, or on a bench at a bus stop to the elderly?

Yes. I volunteer to do so before they ask.

To pregnant women or people who are disabled (perhaps just with a broken leg, or something that hinders their movement)?

Yes. I volunteer to do so before they ask.
Do you hold the door open for the person behind you, or just let it swing shut in their face?

When I was younger, I used to hold the door for everyone - male or female. But since the 1980s I've gotten a rash of crap from women over holding the door, even though I hold it for everyone, so unless the woman is older than 50, I let the door swing shut in her face.

I also make a point of saying hello to the person I'm holding the door for, even if I don't know them.

Do you rush to open a door for someone heavily burdened with groceries or other objects, or for an elderly person?
See previous answer.
Do you even notice other people around you when you're out in public?
Yes.
What breach of manners pisses you off? What manners do you practice on a regular basis?

It's one thing if you didn't want me to hold the door, or you didn't feel it was necessary. I'm not asking for anything - I'm just being nice to everyone. But I think the ultimate bad manners is to crap on someone who is trying to be nice.

Do you willingly give up your seat on the bus, or on a bench at a bus stop to the elderly?

Yes..

To pregnant women or people who are disabled (perhaps just with a broken leg, or something that hinders their movement)?

Yes, I also make a point to sit as FAR back, if I do, to ensure they have access to the front seats....

Do you hold the door open for the person behind you, or just let it swing shut in their face?

Hold it open, I also will hold it open for groups.

Do you rush to open a door for someone heavily burdened with groceries or other objects, or for an elderly person?

Yes..


Do you even notice other people around you when you're out in public?

Yes...


Forget gender here...I don't expect men to hold the door open for me just because I'm female.

I expect to.... My present wife, when we met, had to get used to it. [Chivalry is dead, appearantly].


I'm fit, I'm young, and unless I am carrying a lot of things, or one of my children, it isn't necessary.

No manners, or courtasies are "necessary", realistically... They are gratious acts, which people would do better to show to one another more often.

If it's done just to keep the door from hitting me in the forehead, then I certainly appreciate it...that is polite. But it really drives me nuts when people steadfastly refuse to have manners, or behave politely towards others. Keeping your seat so the pregnant woman gets to stand...or the elderly man has to hold on for dear life as the bus tosses him about. Spitting directly in front of someone as they walk by you...it may not be directed at them in anger, but it's certainly disgusting and rude.

Agreed...


What breach of manners pisses you off? What manners do you practice on a regular basis?

Not only just the above ones, table manners tend to be horrid these days too.

Road rage runs rampant, from people not regarding right-of-way principles (which is akin to manners)...

Oh, I've just thought of another one that really annoys me! People who don't indicate before turning while driving.

I've also had the opportunity to trip women after they've come into the store (after I didn't hold the door for them).

This usually comes after I hear the remark, "thank god you're not one of those men who feels compelled to hold a door for a woman."

I've sent several women sprawling on the floor after hearing that. Sidestep and the left leg goes out...

I'm not answering all the stupid questions. My manners are appropriate to the situation. I can be a perfect gentleman or a viking, conditions permitting.

They spend the rest of the week in the post office...
I worked in a post office/drycleaners once...and let me tell you, the weird shit people want you to do explains postal rage...I'll take any job over that!

I've also had the opportunity to trip women after they've come into the store (after I didn't hold the door for them).

This usually comes after I hear the remark, "thank god you're not one of those men who feels compelled to hold a door for a woman."

I've sent several women sprawling on the floor after hearing that. Sidestep and the left leg goes out...
I don't get all that 'don't open the door for me' stuff...I suspect that only women of a certain age actually think that's an issue. When I brought it up, it was only within the context that I don't expect special treatment as my right as a woman...but if some guy wanted to go out of his way to be extra polite to me, whatever his reason, I would be appreciative. Frankly, no one I know of my own age, and even 15 years older worry too much about chivalry or the lack thereof...it's just about manners period.

The only thing that gives me pause is greeting a man...you can tell some just don't feel right shaking your hand, as a woman, and others want to overpower you with their grip, while others just do it like it's normal (which it is). I never assume beforehand, but it tells me a little bit about the guy if he hesitates before shaking my hand, or crushes it in his grip...

I'm not answering all the stupid questions. My manners are appropriate to the situation. I can be a perfect gentleman or a viking, conditions permitting.
I can think of a number of situations where I would love you to be a viking and pillage me...:D

I can think of a number of situations where I would love you to be a viking and pillage me...:D

Noooo...I'd have to be all proper and polished with the likes of you, my sweet.

I don't get all that 'don't open the door for me' stuff...I suspect that only women of a certain age actually think that's an issue. When I brought it up, it was only within the context that I don't expect special treatment as my right as a woman...but if some guy wanted to go out of his way to be extra polite to me, whatever his reason, I would be appreciative. Frankly, no one I know of my own age, and even 15 years older worry too much about chivalry or the lack thereof...it's just about manners period.

The only thing that gives me pause is greeting a man...you can tell some just don't feel right shaking your hand, as a woman, and others want to overpower you with their grip, while others just do it like it's normal (which it is). I never assume beforehand, but it tells me a little bit about the guy if he hesitates before shaking my hand, or crushes it in his grip...

I've seen several men fired for shaking a woman's hand without asking her first. The woman later claimed an unwanted touching, and although she did not file assault charges, she did make a claim at work.

So I avoid it when I'm at work, unless the woman offers her hand for shaking. In fact, it's a good idea to keep at least 1 meter between yourself (if you're a man) and women at work.

And I'm never alone in an office with a woman. People talk, and people make accusations. So I'm not willing to make that compromise.

Outside of work, it's different. More normal. But the workplace is definitely a minefield today.

Noooo...I'd have to be all proper and polished with the likes of you, my sweet.
Bastard. You say that just to be contrary.

*does a double take*
The likes of me? Meaning what?

I've seen several men fired for shaking a woman's hand without asking her first. The woman later claimed an unwanted touching, and although she did not file assault charges, she did make a claim at work.

So I avoid it when I'm at work, unless the woman offers her hand for shaking. In fact, it's a good idea to keep at least 1 meter between yourself (if you're a man) and women at work.

And I'm never alone in an office with a woman. People talk, and people make accusations. So I'm not willing to make that compromise.

Outside of work, it's different. More normal. But the workplace is definitely a minefield today.
Jesus. I just don't see it that way...but then again, I work in what is still a fairly patriarchal field..education...and things like calling the 65 year old secretaries 'girls' and ridiculing female administration in public is pretty common. The atmosphere probably should be more charged, but it isn't.

My husband works in a camp setting, where woman are segregated to a different area, and are completely off limits. Now I get this on many levels, but on others I think it's silly. You see, I'm thinking that if I were a different woman, and I worked there, I would be like a kid in a candy shop with that many guys around, and I'd be pissed at being held back:).

HOWEVER...it goes both ways. My dad works in the same mine, and often goes on about the 'bitch' he works with...and my mom and I asked him one day if he'd be calling her names like that if she were a man, and as much an asshole as she seems to be. There is a lot of resentment towards women in certain fields, and sometimes the segregation is necessary to keep them safe...but that very same segregation gives people the excuse to hate them even more...it's a vicious cycle.

On the handshake thing...I notice older guys (like in their late fifties) don't like shaking hands with women (because that just wasn't done in their day...and old habits die hard), and some women don't like shaking hands with women because they don't want to be seen as trying to be masculine. Who knows. It's a mess. I hope it sorts itself out one day and we can all just get along. Or not. And have that be okay.

JThe atmosphere probably should be more charged, but it isn't.

It's not so much "charged" here as an "rictus of fear".

The men have permanent vanilla smiles pasted on their faces for fear of invoking the dreaded lawsuit or firing.

We keep our mouths shut. We don't joke (there's no telling how a joke might be interpreted). Everything is strictly professional and women are always referred to by their last names (Mrs, Ms., or Miss at their preference).

Lightening up is intepreted as attempting to bend the rules. And it's inadvisable.

If a woman is talking about how her pregnancy is going, it's best for the men to leave the room - or risk saying the wrong thing and getting fired.

Bastard. You say that just to be contrary.

*does a double take*
The likes of me? Meaning what?


You know-the likes of your sort- all prim and proper. Aristocratic.

Nah- when I was through with you, you'd feel as if your body went through a wood chipper with strong tongues instead of blades...

You know-the likes of your sort- all prim and proper. Aristocratic.

Yes...I am a veritable ice queen:)

It's not so much "charged" here as an "rictus of fear".

The men have permanent vanilla smiles pasted on their faces for fear of invoking the dreaded lawsuit or firing.

We keep our mouths shut. We don't joke (there's no telling how a joke might be interpreted). Everything is strictly professional and women are always referred to by their last names (Mrs, Ms., or Miss at their preference).

Lightening up is intepreted as attempting to bend the rules. And it's inadvisable.

If a woman is talking about how her pregnancy is going, it's best for the men to leave the room - or risk saying the wrong thing and getting fired.
Tense.

Then again, like I said, I work in an odd profession...rather archaic. Where racist jokes are 'ok' and any complaints about such are met with lectures about being a team player.

Not that I'd like to work in the situation you describe. My husband does, somewhat...but it goes further...no one can ever offend anyone...it's so bad that guys get run off for the slightest thing. One guy was eating a tuna fish sandwich at a table, and someone else said, "I'm allergic to tuna". The guy said, "Hmmm" and kept eating it...it's not like he was forcing the other guy to eat it! He got fired for not being sensitive to this guy's food allergy:rolleyes:

Well, there was a bit more to it...the tuna-fish intolerant guy was a son of a band council from the local tribe. But still. Give me a break.

Well, basically yes to all of those questions. I also thank the person who holds the door open for me.
One tiny bit of manners I picked up here in Ireland is thanking the bus driver when getting off...
Let's see... what else? Saying "Excuse me" when I sneeze, and "Bless you" if somebody else does.
Keeping out of people's way when in a shop or on a street (I hate it when people are blocking up the way and you can't get past them)
Helping people with heavy bags or buggies into the bus... don't really know what else.
But I'm a very ardent supporter of good manners and politeness.

Yes...I am a veritable ice queen:)

In tattered cothing, dripping with my saliva, it'll be hard for you to maintain that image

What breach of manners pisses you off? What manners do you practice on a regular basis?

All of the above, giving up seats, holding doors for people, and generally thanks and pleases. Sometimes I swear in public though which is a bit rude :s

What really annoys me is when people let a door go and it almost hits you in the face.

Well, basically yes to all of those questions. I also thank the person who holds the door open for me.
One tiny bit of manners I picked up here in Ireland is thanking the bus driver when getting off...
Let's see... what else? Saying "Excuse me" when I sneeze, and "Bless you" if somebody else does.
Keeping out of people's way when in a shop or on a street (I hate it when people are blocking up the way and you can't get past them)
Helping people with heavy bags or buggies into the bus... don't really know what else.
But I'm a very ardent supporter of good manners and politeness.

Hey you! I got on!!

I'd like to drive your bus, Miss Manners...

Hey you! I got on!!

I'd like to drive your bus, Miss Manners...

*lol Congrats, I did miss you ;)

My bus? Just to hear me say "Thank you" in my sweet cheerful voice? ;)

Edit: Just sent you a tg