NationStates Jolt Archive

An Australian man convicted of drugs charges in Singapore has lost his final appeal for clemency and will be executed, Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said on Friday.

Nguyen Tuong Van, 25, was sentenced to death in March 2004 after being convicted for smuggling almost 400 grams (0.9 lb) of heroin from Vietnam. He was arrested at Singapore's Changi Airport in December 2002, where he was in transit for Australia.

Downer, Prime Minister John Howard and Governor-General Michael Jeffery had all pleaded for clemency for Nguyen, who will become the first Australian to be executed for drugs charges in Southeast Asia since 1993.
...
But Downer said there was little more Australia could do.

"This was a decision made by the Singapore Cabinet and the President, consistent with the laws and constitution of Singapore," Downer said.

Two other Australians, Mai Cong Thanh, 46, and Nguyen Van Chinh, 45, remain on death row in Vietnam after being convicted for drug smuggling.

In 1986, Malaysia executed Australian drug smugglers Kevin Barlow and Brian Chambers by hanging in a high-profile case that sparked a major diplomatic row after then Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke described the death sentence as "barbaric."

The last Australian to be executed in Southeast Asia was Michael McAuliffe, who went to the gallows in Malaysia in 1993 for drug trafficking.

Not even a full pound and he's getting executed?

Excuse me, I thought we Americans were the bad guys here. Now Singapore's taking our spot? I feel threatened somehow.

I feel out-evilled.

These things happen...

Not even a full pound and he's getting executed?

Excuse me, I thought we Americans were the bad guys here. Now Singapore's taking our spot? I feel threatened somehow.
Wasn't Singapore the place that caned those Americans for setting fire to a car a few years ago. I think that they have always been the UberHard Asses when it comes to foriegn crime, and I suppose local crime as well, but no one ever cares about the locals.

From what I've read, they've quite strict laws. If you're stupid enough to sell hard drugs , then you deserve whatever consequences there may be. If you're stupid enough to sell in a country with strict anti-drug laws...You reap what you've sown.

link
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051021/wl_nm/crime_australia_singapore_dc_1

I second the "reap what you sow" sentiments. If you're dumb enough to try smuggling drugs into a police state with draconian anti-drugs laws, you'll get everything you deserve.

That said, the death sentence is barbaric, but considering we haven't annexed Singapore that I'm aware of, there's not a great deal we can really do about it.

If you're stupid enough to sell in a country with strict anti-drug laws...You reap what you've sown.

*nods in agreement *


I feel out-evilled.
:( D*mn..

Your in a foreign land you abide by the foreign laws. Just how it is.

I second the "reap what you sow" sentiments. If you're dumb enough to try smuggling drugs into a police state with draconian anti-drugs laws, you'll get everything you deserve.

That said, the death sentence is barbaric, but considering we haven't annexed Singapore that I'm aware of, there's not a great deal we can really do about it.
well that doesn't seem like a terrible idea. they are executing one of your citizens what more pretext for a quick power grab do you need. you had to invade to save one of your citizens from murder by the despotic meglomaniacal rulers of this totalitarian if wealthy little state. suddenly you own one of the jewels of the orient. as long as you allow business to continue as usual you won't get much flack from the populous they're conditioned to obey authority and keep their heads down.

Your in a foreign land you abide by the foreign laws. Just how it is.
unless you are powerful enough to force them to use your laws not theirs in dealing with you... like the us military in most of its foriegn deployments.

Poor guy. If I had superpowers, I'd save him. He's just trying to make some money...

unless you are powerful enough to force them to use your laws not theirs in dealing with you... like the us military in most of its foriegn deployments.

Go get caught for drugs in Mexico as a US citizen. Then let me know how the US rescue mission goes.

Go get caught for drugs in Mexico as a US citizen. Then let me know how the US rescue mission goes.
try to prosecute and american soldier serving in a foriegn country under that countries laws, might happen ocasionally in japan or europe for particularly heinous crimes like rape-murder ect, but rarely anything else.

Poor guy. If I had superpowers, I'd save him. He's just trying to make some money...
the australian government has superpowers(... well minor powers), its military. they could save him if they had the balls.

the australian government has superpowers(... well minor powers), its military. they could save him if they had the balls.

That would be a nice change of pace.

the australian government has superpowers(... well minor powers), its military. they could save him if they had the balls.
... because invading a police state with alliances with most of the world powers would be such a good idea, wouldn't it?

try to prosecute and american soldier serving in a foriegn country under that countries laws, might happen ocasionally in japan or europe for particularly heinous crimes like rape-murder ect, but rarely anything else.

I specifically remember that service men were turned over to japan because of rape. Anything else such as petty crimes is dealt with in the military. Often times the military punishment far exceeded the country of orgins penalty. So justice does get served.

... because invading a police state with alliances with most of the world powers would be such a good idea, wouldn't it?

well maybe not... if australia is a nation of pussies who like having their citizens butchered in foriegn lands... how about just strategic airstrikes against singapore governmental and military sites... how about a naval blockade... or at least some riots and pograms against the singapore expatriot community in australia magor cities.

Your in a foreign land you abide by the foreign laws. Just how it is.If it was up to me...he would not get a long sentence..I dont think he is a big time Drug trafikker...

But like he says thier Land >>> their laws.

I share my view with many of these posters. Essentially, their nation, their laws, but the government of the foreigner should at least plead with the host government for a sentence lighter than death. The unique nature of death penalty means there is no meaningful means of vindication.

Asides from generally disagreeing with death penalty, capital punishment or whatever name you would like to give to it, it is really considered a bad (!!!!) idea to go travelling to most southasian countries with an intent on drug trafficking...like walking in a children day care center with a gun and hoping to get out alive. The states adjacent to or belonging to the golden triangle have long sensed their need for harsh anti-drug-laws...either to protect their own business (no offense) or to enhance their own security.

And yes, always a good idea to invade a foreign country and UN-Member to retrieve a sentenced criminal, greatly enhances your international standing...wait, I just send out a warning to the german police forces not to arrest any australian, whatsoever he´s commited :rolleyes:

well maybe not... if australia is a nation of pussies who like having their citizens butchered in foriegn lands... how about just strategic airstrikes against singapore governmental and military sites... how about a naval blockade... or at least some riots and pograms against the singapore expatriot community in australia magor cities.
1) Singapore is one of the most densely populated nations in the world. It is effectively one city. You cannot have airstrikes without causing serious damage to civilian areas.

2) How the hell could Australian ships and aircraft get there? That would involve sending forces through Indonesia and Malaysia, both of whom are far more militaristic than Australia, and are closely allied to Singapore. It would be tantamount to declaring war. Australia simply could not survive an all-out war with Indonesia, especially if other nations became involved. And I really don't think many nations would be helping us out in this case. If anything, America would simply close up Pine Gap and ship out, leaving us to deal with our own problem.

3) Ah, don't riots and pogroms always work. Not. Australia is a multicultural society and proud of it. Plus there's the slight problem of the 'Singaporean expat community', as you put it. Who are you talking about? Most people who declare themselves as Singaporean will also refer to another nationality, commonly Chinese. Do you want us pissing off China too?

4) Butchering? This is capital punishment, as also occurs in America, Indonesia, and many other nations. Singapore is famous for having very tough sentences for, well, anything. I don't agree with capital punishment, but referring to it as butchering really is going over the top.

5) And that international community thing... Singapore is one of the world's leading centres of business. Most international corporations have their Asian headquarters located there. Singapore is one of two places which announce the world oil price (the other being Texas). A blockade would hurt us, and much of the world. Airstrikes would hurt us, and much of the world. Riots and pogroms would hurt us, and much of the world.

Get it yet? Attacking Singapore over a single incident of drug smuggling would go far beyond shooting ourselves in the collective foot. It would be suicide.

try to prosecute and american soldier serving in a foriegn country under that countries laws, might happen ocasionally in japan or europe for particularly heinous crimes like rape-murder ect, but rarely anything else.
The gentleman in question isn't a member of the Australian military. Non-military personel are subject to the laws of the host country and there's nothing the country of citizenship can do about it. I got all sorts of nice warnings about how Japanese jails are really uncomfortable and how the US Embassy will not do anything should I violate Japanese laws (And that's why I cam suffering from a damn cold because I cannot import any US cold medications. Stupid Japanese anti-stimulants laws!).

I know I'm gonna go straight to hell for violating Godwin's Law, but am I the only one who thinks Aryan Einherjers is really living up to the "aryan" half of his name? Strategic airstrikes against a foreign country that's executing an Australian on drug charges? A naval blockade against the biggest economic power in southeast asia because we're pissy at one guy being executed? Advocating riots and lynching of people from Singapore? Pro tip dude: in Romper Stomper the big tragedy was the main characters were all messed up in the head, not that they didn't manage to drive the yellow peril from our shores or anything :D

If it was up to me...he would not get a long sentence..I dont think he is a big time Drug trafikker...

But like he says thier Land >>> their laws.

Maybe Singapore thinks that if you kill the little traffickers, they won't grow up to be big ones.

Or, they're protecting the local traffickers.

Who knows. In any case, he knew the place had the death penalty for drugs.

While it pains me to see this, I really can't get too choked up about it. I have no love for heroin dealers (or crack for that matter)

Ive seen what it does to peoples lives, and if the dealers went out and got real jobs, there would be alot less lives ruined.

And please don't give me the dumbass excuse that dealers wouldn't exist without a market. Cops wouldn't exist if criminals didn't break the law. Only drug dealers I feel bad for are pot dealers, and only if they don't use violence.

the australian government has superpowers(... well minor powers), its military. they could save him if they had the balls.
Australia? Balls? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:D

If this were some obscure law or unusual case I might have some sympathy. However, Singapore's laws are part of thier tourist attractions. I bought a T-Shirt there showing all sorts of severe penalties for different crimes. Drug trafficking is on it clearly showing death.

I think Singapore is actually proud of it's extreme penalties(as the previously mentioned t-shirt would indicate). Most nations have rather extreme drug trafficking laws. Whether it be the death penalty, or 30 years in a hole of a prison, you don't want to be caught.

Here's an interesting tidbit: Most of the countries that drugs are trafficked FROM have much more severe laws than the countries they are trafficked TO.

Funny old world, ain't it? :D

Wasn't Singapore the place that caned those Americans for setting fire to a car a few years ago. I think that they have always been the UberHard Asses when it comes to foriegn crime, and I suppose local crime as well, but no one ever cares about the locals.
I think they caned an American teenager for spraypainting some grafitti. They've executed people for possesion of Hashish. They even arrest people for possesion of pornography (normal adult variety, not the evil stuff). I wouldn't want to visit there. I'm not sure why anyone would.

I think Singapore is actually proud of it's extreme penalties(as the previously mentioned t-shirt would indicate). Most nations have rather extreme drug trafficking laws. Whether it be the death penalty, or 30 years in a hole of a prison, you don't want to be caught.

Here's an interesting tidbit: Most of the countries that drugs are trafficked FROM have much more severe laws than the countries they are trafficked TO.

Funny old world, ain't it? :D

That's generally because the closer they are to the source, the more drastic the social and political consequences are. Staggering rates of drug addiction, HIV infection through the roof if it's an injectable drug, warlords and drug barons running around destabilising the government, that sorta thing. Plus of course there's just so much of the drugs around that nothing but the harshest measures is gonna put anything even remotely resembling a dent into the trade.

Which is why a country like Iran for example, which happens to be right next to Afghanistan and is the first stop for a staggering amount of the heroin that's eventually sold in Europe and North America. Iran confiscates and burns dozens or hundreds of tons of high-grade heroin every year, and even the Iranian government admits that it's maybe managing to seize 10 or 20% of the total amount that passes through the country on it's way to other markets. It's got a rate of heroin addiction that's staggering compared to western countries, and a burgeoning HIV epidemic that epidemiologists generally agree managed to take root and flourish so succesfully mainly because of intravenous drug use. Which of course is why they've got punishments for dealers and smugglers that are every bit as draconian as Singapore, and in some cases harsher (I doubt the police in Singapore get shoot to kill authorization very often). It's also why just about the entire length of the Afhanistan/Iran border apart from a few checkpoints has an anti-vehicle trench running along it, to stop smugglers taking off-road vehicles and just cruising along the badlands into Iran, and why the Iranian police have frickin' machineguns mounted on their patrol jeeps.

well maybe not... if australia is a nation of pussies who like having their citizens butchered in foriegn lands... how about just strategic airstrikes against singapore governmental and military sites... how about a naval blockade... or at least some riots and pograms against the singapore expatriot community in australia magor cities.

Singapore doesn't have any military sites, because Singapore does not have a military to speak of. However, China has a rather large military, and they would not be pleased if Australia or any other nation were to attack Singapore, with whom they enjoy close cultural and political ties.

Singapore doesn't have any military sites, because Singapore does not have a military to speak of. However, China has a rather large military, and they would not be pleased if Australia or any other nation were to attack Singapore, with whom they enjoy close cultural and political ties.

That's not actually correct. In Singapore, the police and the military are the same and it's in fact quite sizable - they use conscription to keep the figure at 100,000 men, not counting reserves.

That's actually bigger than Australia's army.

That's not actually correct. In Singapore, the police and the military are the same and it's in fact quite sizable - they use conscription to keep the figure at 100,000 men, not counting reserves.

That's actually bigger than Australia's army.

well then it would be a fair fight, but lean towards the aussies if they can strike fast... as for china, of course its fond of singapore which is ruled by ethnic chinese minority oligarchs, but it hasn't much ability to project military power beyond nations it directly borders... i'd be more worried about indonesia or even malaysia diectly adding the singapore government than china. that's why some bullhooie about liberating the oppressed south asian magority in singapore would probably be a good propaganda tool to use in the area.

well then it would be a fair fight, but lean towards the aussies if they can strike fast... as for china, of course its fond of singapore which is ruled by ethnic chinese minority oligarchs, but it hasn't much ability to project military power beyond nations it directly borders... i'd be more worried about indonesia or even malaysia diectly adding the singapore government than china. that's why some bullhooie about liberating the oppressed south asian magority in singapore would probably be a good propaganda tool to use in the area.

Over three fourths of Singaporeans are ethnic Chinese. Hardly a minority.

That's not actually correct. In Singapore, the police and the military are the same and it's in fact quite sizable - they use conscription to keep the figure at 100,000 men, not counting reserves.

That's actually bigger than Australia's army.

Ah. I was unaware that they were one and the same. Thank you.

well then it would be a fair fight, but lean towards the aussies if they can strike fast... as for china, of course its fond of singapore which is ruled by ethnic chinese minority oligarchs, but it hasn't much ability to project military power beyond nations it directly borders... i'd be more worried about indonesia or even malaysia diectly adding the singapore government than china. that's why some bullhooie about liberating the oppressed south asian magority in singapore would probably be a good propaganda tool to use in the area.

They're quite happy as they are from what I gather and don't feel oppressed. I know a lot of Singaporean students; the Singaporean government pays through their nose to send people to our universities.

Ah. I was unaware that they were one and the same. Thank you.

Everyone who visits there always comments on the cops with M-16's on every street corner. :p

Well, he was in posession of drugs, so there is little sympathy for him. Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

I have to agree here. You are carrying drugs through a country with such harsh laws and get caught then deal with it. "Cant do the time dont do the crime" Well then he did, he gets to stand before their courts. He was found guilty in their system.

Over three fourths of Singaporeans are ethnic Chinese. Hardly a minority.only if you don't count the 5 million maylay singapori living in refugee camps in the occupied territories.

I have to agree here. You are carrying drugs through a country with such harsh laws and get caught then deal with it. "Cant do the time dont do the crime" Well then he did, he gets to stand before their courts. He was found guilty in their system.
just like the iraqi kurds... ya defy the supreme leader, your villiages get gassed, what did you expect flowers and a kiss on the cheek.

just like the iraqi kurds... ya defy the supreme leader, your villiages get gassed, what did you expect flowers and a kiss on the cheek.
That is completely irrelavent. Besides, do you really think waging a war in which thousands, if not millions, would undoubtedly die, over the execution of a criminal? Think about it.

Attempting to feel sympathy toward heroin smuggler... failure.

only if you don't count the 5 million maylay singapori living in refugee camps in the occupied territories.

Which occupied territories would those be?

only if you don't count the 5 million maylay singapori living in refugee camps in the occupied territories.huh?

Yet another casualty to the war on drugs.

*moment of silence*

Of course everyone should know not to fuck with Singapore. They WILL kill or cane you if you mess around. Look up Singapore in a Merriam-Websters and it will tell you to see 'draconian' and 'police state.'

try to prosecute and american soldier serving in a foriegn country under that countries laws, might happen ocasionally in japan or europe for particularly heinous crimes like rape-murder ect, but rarely anything else.
Wrong-o Buddy! I was stationed in Japan several times during my Marine Corps career. I had one of my Marines put in jail for DUI and another put in jail for setting off one of the railroad crossing flares after a trip to town. The military commands that are deployed are very sensitive to host nation laws and customs.

I don't know where you get your information, but things aren't like they were in the good old post WW2 years.

Of course everyone should know not to fuck with Singapore. They WILL kill or cane you if you mess around.You are rigth...Do not mess with Texas :D Look up Singapore in a Merriam-Websters and it will tell you to see 'draconian' and 'police state.'You are kidding rigth? or is that sarcasm? Singapore has a great Governement...and their Laws are tough but fair.

1 island Malay Archipelago in S. China Sea off S end of Malay Peninsula; formerly a British crown colony, from 1963 to 1965 a state of Malaysia (federation), an independent republic in the Commonwealth of Nations since 1965, area 255 square miles (660 square kilometers), population 2,685,400
2 city & port, its capital, on Singapore Strait population 206,500
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=singapore&x=0&y=0

Also...
Form of government: unitary multiparty republic with one legislative house (Parliament [90]).
Chief of state: President.
Head of state government: Prime Minister.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/nytmaps.pl?singapore

Indeed, Singapore sounds like hell on earth.

I think they caned an American teenager for spraypainting some grafitti. They've executed people for possesion of Hashish. They even arrest people for possesion of pornography (normal adult variety, not the evil stuff). I wouldn't want to visit there. I'm not sure why anyone would.

It's a very clean place. Hell, you can be fined just for not flushing a toilet! While that is pretty extreme, I love cleanliness, so Singapore is definitely a place I'd want to be. Most First World countries are filthy garbage heaps, with litter as far as the eye can see.

You are rigth...Do not mess with Texas :D

*messes with Texas*
Muwahahaha I'm messing with Texas... and there's NOTHING you can do about it!

You are dead wrong

1 island Malay Archipelago in S. China Sea off S end of Malay Peninsula; formerly a British crown colony, from 1963 to 1965 a state of Malaysia (federation), an independent republic in the Commonwealth of Nations since 1965, area 255 square miles (660 square kilometers), population 2,685,400
2 city & port, its capital, on Singapore Strait population 206,500
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=singapore&x=0&y=0

Also...
Form of government: unitary multiparty republic with one legislative house (Parliament [90]).
Chief of state: President.
Head of state government: Prime Minister.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/nytmaps.pl?singapore

Never in my life did I think somebody might actually trouble themselves to look up 'Singapore' in a Merriam-Webster dictionary and post thier findings just to prove my common turn of phrase incorrect in the literal sense. I am dumbfounded.

It's a very clean place. Hell, you can be fined just for not flushing a toilet! While that is pretty extreme, I love cleanliness, so Singapore is definitely a place I'd want to be. Most First World countries are filthy garbage heaps, with litter as far as the eye can see.
I thought you were a libertarian? A place like that would drive a libertarian insane!

I thought you were a libertarian? A place like that would drive a libertarian insane!

I wouldn't want to live there, just visit. It would drive me bonkers if I had to live there, though! :D

Never in my life did I think somebody might actually trouble themselves to look up 'Singapore' in a Merriam-Webster dictionary and post thier findings just to prove my common turn of phrase incorrect in the literal sense. I am dumbfounded.Oh...so you were not kidding...

All I can say now is... WTF were you thinking dumbfounded errr....dude :p

Most NS veterans are aware that I am some kind of Quality-Control freak...
I will double check all your "Facts"...
and FYI.. I do triple check my "Facts".

*messes with Texas*
Muwahahaha I'm messing with Texas... and there's NOTHING you can do about it!You are too late...i messed all over the place...Yesterday
:p

Indeed, Singapore sounds like hell on earth.

Heh, want to here the scariest thing? A friend who went there told me that on the trains, there are regular advertisments telling you things like "SMILE! You are a happy person!" and "You are well protected and safe!"

Despite all that though, he loves the place. Meh.

Indeed, Singapore sounds like hell on earth.

As a place to live, yeah. As a place to visit, maybe or maybe not. Never been to the place, so I can't judge. But as I said, I do like cleanliness, so I'd at least want to give the place a look. The place I live (Minneapolis) is filthy as hell, garbage everywhere, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/08/03/corby.appeal/index.html

Draconian punishments are all fine and dandy when the true culprit is caught, but has the nasty tendancy to create *really* awkward moments when authoraties realize they got the wrong person after the fact.

Of course, I make it a policy never to travel to a country that could possibly detain me and my own country can do nothing about it. I want to go on vacation, I will go to Britain - not Zimbabwe. So in some ways, I lose a little sympathy for those caught in such delimmas.

Attempting to feel sympathy toward heroin smuggler... failure.

Keep in mind that the men and women who try and physically take large quantities of drugs through airports aren't cynical dealers making a profit selling harmful drugs, and they're not millionaire drug barons enjoying the spoils of their drug empires. They're almost always desperate people who find themselves being made an offer that they can't really afford to turn down. And considering that this dude was caught trying to get drugs through the airport in Singapore (a country notorious for it's harsh drug laws and honest customs agents), I think we can safely assume that the dude in question got made the mother of all offers he couldn't refuse, probably something along the lines of "take a package to Singapore or we start cutting up your family". After all, nobody _wants_ to be a mule, it's a job where you're just asking to be caught.

As a place to live, yeah. As a place to visit, maybe or maybe not. Never been to the place, so I can't judge. But as I said, I do like cleanliness, so I'd at least want to give the place a look. The place I live (Minneapolis) is filthy as hell, garbage everywhere, etc.

The "clean" part is the inner city, which is the face Singapore shows to the world. The suburban areas where all of the poorer workers live are not up to that standard.

My friend that I mentioned above has pictures, but unfortunately I don't have copies so I can't scan them.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/08/03/corby.appeal/index.html
Interesting...
I have a question...

CNN article: "...but that person will not testify without a guarantee of immunity from prosecution by the Australian government."

How the hell can a Foreign Gov guarantee Immunity for a criminal-court-trial in your Country...

Scenario: Lets say someone is being tried in England for drug trafficking...can the Japanese Gov send a witness and guarantee him immunity?

Oh...so you were not kidding...

All I can say now is... WTF were you thinking dumb girl :p

Most NS veterans are aware that I im some kind of Quality-Control freak...
I will double check all your "Facts"...
and FYI.. I do triple check my "Facts".

Me--->:) <---Not a Girl.

Just so we're clear.

Unless you were lambasting yourself as a dumb girl. In that case... make it clearer next time... dummy:p

Me--->:) <---Not a Girl.
my mistake...I will edit

Interesting...
I have a question...

CNN article: "...but that person will not testify without a guarantee of immunity from prosecution by the Australian government."

How the hell can a Foreign Gov guarantee Immunity for a criminal-court-trial in your Country...

Scenario: Lets say someone is being tried in England for drug trafficking...can the Japanese Gov send a witness and guarantee him immunity?

What that means is that he wants immunity from being prosecuted by the Australian government, not the Singaporean one. For example, by telling all he knows in order to get the other person off the hook, he doesn't want to be punished by the Australian government when he returns home.