NationStates Jolt Archive

This guy is turning into a regular class clown. Getting a little paranoid down in Venezuela I see. However I think this is absolute propaganda and no truth behind this dillusion. What do you all think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4635187.stm

He'll say whatever he can to make himself look like a victim.

If he's truly against the administration, at least he should be the bigger man.

Is he getting paranoid, or merely strengthening his political base? A populace that feels threatened is going to line up behind their leadership...especially in south america where machismo among males is the rule. Takes the voter's minds off the poor economy and their weakening civil rights, doesn't it:-)

Is he getting paranoid, or merely strengthening his political base? A populace that feels threatened is going to line up behind their leadership...especially in south america where machismo among males is the rule. Takes the voter's minds off the poor economy and their weakening civil rights, doesn't it:-)

Yes this is how Uncle Fidel works. So there is no suprise that Chavez is taking one from his handbook.

He's trying to solidify his base. He's more worried about internal affairs than the US.

How did he find out.... dang interns leaking out military plans!

A populace that feels threatened is going to line up behind their leadership... ...Takes the voter's minds off the poor economy and their weakening civil rights, doesn't it:-)

Yea, I think he took that one out of George Bush's book. Must have been inspired by talk of WMD, links between Saddam and Osama, etc. Left or right, politicians are always playing the same game at the end of the day.

But at least Chavez is doing it for all the right reasons. Even though the US could never succesfully invade Venezuela (Chavez enjoys overwhelming support from the population while Bush's approval rating is plummeting). I'm sure the White House would be more than willing to lend it support to any fascist coup designed to overthrow Chavez (they did in 2002). So I support Chavez in this, it's not about Bush vs Chavez, it's about democracy and human rights.

This guy is turning into a regular class clown. Getting a little paranoid down in Venezuela I see. However I think this is absolute propaganda and no truth behind this dillusion. What do you all think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4635187.stm
Marrakech..Your whinning about chavez is getting Old...

Marrakech..Your whinning about chavez is getting Old...
OceanDrive, your whining about people whining is getting old.
Chavez needs to be talked about, because the man is completely insane, and he also seems to attract the attention of insane people (such as glorious Pat Roberston) who say things that will attract the attention of other insane people (like those who have been brainwashed against assasinations).
The man is like a walking asylum, and we need more people like him in the world.

OceanDrive, your whining about people whining is getting old.Prove it with the Quote function.

This is the first time I call him for his repeating OLD-news...Marrakech is a Broken-record with legs.

Prove it with the Quote function.
Fine then, I have seen two posts of yours in the last five minutes, and these are it:
This is the first tim I call him for his repeating OLDnews...Marrakech is a Brken-record with legs
whining, and:
Marrakech..Your whinning about chavez is getting Old...
Whining again, I see.
On this thread you have done 100% whining, and I see no reason not to believe that one isolated incidence isn't indicative of a greater scheme of things.
Anyway, I fail to see why bringing up some crack pot dictator all the time is any worse then bringing up George Bush, Religion, the USSR, or Abortion all the time like everyone else does.
We need things we can agree on, and Chavez being bat-shit insane is something that we can agree on, so we need to whale on that dead horse until everyone feels the same revulsion toward it that I feel toward Abortion debates.

From the article linked to in the OP:

They have been suspicious ever since Washington rushed to endorse the April 2002 coup which briefly unseated the president.

Hmm...having a coup d'etat against you is a fairly good reason for a leader to be paranoid. Especially when the United States endorsed said coup.

No, I don't think the US will invade Venezuela (Syria and/or Iran will come first). But what's to stop the CIA from another coup or assassination attempt? Chavez has every reason to be paranoid, even if it only makes him look like a loon.

How many times did we try to assassinate Castro before we finally gave up?

We need things we can agree on, and Chavez being bat-shit insane is something that we can agree on, so we need to whale on that dead horse until everyone feels the same revulsion toward it that I feel toward Abortion debates.LOL...
"Chavez is something we can agree on" WTF???

I challenge you to Post a poll about Chaves...I bet most people wont agree with you and Makarech

Hmm... I don't think even Bush is stupid enough to invade Venezuela; the populace supports him, Venezuela's jungles are death for Americans (just ask Vietnam vets), and there is absolutely no way that Bush can survive another unjustified war, even one invoking the idiotic Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine.

However, I don't think that Chavez (who, might I add, was democratically elected) is completely off-base to think that Bush is out to get him. Attempted coup in 2002, the fact that the US has been taking down unfriendly, democratically elected presidents in the Americas for years, Venezuela's oil supplies, Chavez's leftism in the face of Bush's rightism, Pat Robertson's comments... Yeah, I'd say that the guy has a right to be paranoid.

Prove it with the Quote function.

This is the first time I call him for his repeating OLD-news...Marrakech is a Broken-record with legs.

This is a fresh story. The old news would be you... sorry to break it to you...

From the article linked to in the OPMarrakch uses old newspaper articles...Because he cant find new ones he likes about Chavez...

He is OldNEWS in every single way :D :D :p :D

This guy is turning into a regular class clown. Getting a little paranoid down in Venezuela I see. However I think this is absolute propaganda and no truth behind this dillusion. What do you all think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4635187.stmThis is a fresh story. The old news would be you... sorry to break it to you...
Fresh... really?

Marrakch uses old newspaper articles...Because he cant find new ones he likes about Chavez...

He is OldNEWS in every single way :D :D :p :D

ROFL

The story is dated 1 July:D

This is a fresh story. The old news would be you... sorry to break it to you...Its dated Friday, 1 July, 2005,
If you call that fresh news...I have a truckload of discount "Fresh" letuce to sell you :D

Fresh... really?


Yes it was on CNN yesterday. The BBC link was just a quick google search.

Here is the CNN story:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/10/20/venezuela.chavez.ap/index.html

Still trying to defend your leftist buddies comrade Oceandrive.

Yes it was on CNN yesterday. The BBC link was just a quick google search.

Here is the CNN story:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/10/20/venezuela.chavez.ap/index.html

Still trying to defend your leftist buddies comrade Oceandrive.They are 2 completely different articles...The first one is much more alarmist and dramatic...The second is more balanced...It gives bits of Chaves POV..and mentions Pat Roberstson(No wonder you used the Old-Article)

from the first one...Alarmist & Dramatic...(not saying its not accurate)
During recent months, Venezuela has been buying 100,000 AK-47 rifles and military helicopters from Russia, as well as ships and planes from Brazil and Spain. The arms-buying spree worries Colombian leaders, while US officials have asked why Venezuela bought more rifles than it has soldiers. Those officials have suggested that excess rifles might be smuggled to illegal armed groups in Colombia.

"What in the world [is the threat] that Venezuela sees that makes them want to have all those weapons?" US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld told the Miami Herald recently.

Mr Chavez's warnings that the US, which buys most of Venezuela's oil, might invade, have resonated with his supporters. They have been suspicious ever since Washington rushed to endorse the April 2002 coup which briefly unseated the president.

Venezuelan officials assert that the arms and the citizen reserve are for purely defensive purposes and that Washington resents the fact that Venezuela did not buy US-made weapons.
...from the last one...the bits of the Chaves POV

...Robertson, the U.S. religious broadcaster, said in August that Chavez should be killed, then later apologized.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Chavez's suspicions were unfounded.

"I've stated many times before, the United States is prepared to work with any government in the region: left of center, center, right of center. Our issue is with states that don't govern in a democratic manner," McCormack said.

The Venezuelan leader used his news conference to trumpet what he called his "alternative" vision of a world that works for the poor rather than corporations seeking profits.

Chavez reiterated longtime claims that the United States finances his opponents, seeks his ouster and sabotages efforts to move his country forward.

"Venezuela is used to defending itself ... and fighting imperialism," Chavez said, speaking in Spanish with a French translator.

"We must be ready for an aggression," said Chavez, who previously said Venezuela is organizing an expanded military reserve and civilian defense units.

In an interview with the British Broadcasting Corp. radio aired earlier Thursday, Chavez said he had evidence to prove the U.S. government was planning an invasion.

Just if your counting there Oceandrive. I have posted about chavez 3 times before today. The dates are as follows 4-4-05,5-1-05,8-6-05. Hardly beating a dead horse I would think. All in response to Chavez saying something stupid about the US. So get off your rant. Your just looking like a ***.

Just if your counting there Oceandrive. I have posted about chavez 3 times. The dates are as follows 4-4-05,5-1-05,8-6-05,10-21-05. Hardly beating a dead horse I would think. All in response to Chavez saying something stupid about the US. So get off your rant. Your just looking like a ***.Nah..Im not counting...

and you posted 4 dates BTW... ;)

And again, I don't think that Chavez is right, but I also don't think that he's being crazy or stupid. Egotistical and paranoid, definitely, but not crazy. After all, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Also went to draw attention to Ocean Drives Thread starter counts since we are counting.

Chavez:

10-17,9-4

Bush:

10-19,10-8,9-12,9-5,8-27,8-7,8-3

Hmmmmm..... Pot calling the kettle black?

Chavez needs to be talked about......we need to whale on that dead horse until everyone feels the same revulsion toward it that I feel toward Abortion debates.repeating nonsense....AKA beating on imaginary dead horses..does only work on weak minds...

Also went to draw attention to Ocean Drives Thread starter counts since we are counting.

Chavez:

10-17,9-4

Bush:

10-19,10-8,9-12,9-5,8-27,8-7,8-3

Hmmmmm..... Pot calling the kettle black?Yes... but I only use Fresh Letuce...If you know what i mean ;)

And again, I don't think that Chavez is right, but I also don't think that he's being crazy or stupid. Egotistical and paranoid, definitely, but not crazy. After all, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Well you dont ascend to power being 100% crazy. Thats not how it works. But after you get there it is very possible to lose your head. Power can corrupt ones mind. Not saying he is crazy. I just think he is trying to pick up the mantel of Fidel myself. Fidel on the way out leaves room for one Latin American leftist anti-US rable rouser. Chavez seems to fit that just fine. Now I highly doubt that the US would bother with the guy. Far more pressing issues in the world. Like finishing what we are doing now. However his status could quickly change if it were found he was helping terrorist. Now I dont think thats a likely scenerio either. But that would bring a possible demise at American hands.

Yes... but I only use Fresh Letuce...If you know what i mean ;)


But its brown on the edges... Try lemon juice, its a sour bite. But still appears to look good. ;)

Well you dont ascend to power being 100% crazy. Thats not how it works. But after you get there it is very possible to lose your head. Power can corrupt ones mind. Not saying he is crazy. I just think he is trying to pick up the mantel of Fidel myself. Fidel on the way out leaves room for one Latin American leftist anti-US rable rouser. Chavez seems to fit that just fine. Now I highly doubt that the US would bother with the guy. Far more pressing issues in the world. Like finishing what we are doing now. However his status could quickly change if it were found he was helping terrorist. Now I dont think thats a likely scenerio either. But that would bring a possible demise at American hands.But its brown on the edges... Try lemon juice, its a sour bite. But still appears to look good. ;)You know what i would do if I was Chavez?

You know what i would do if I was Chavez?

Before you answer your own question, I'd like to remind you that uttering death threats against another forumer is against the rules and may result in forumban, so if your first act upon becoming Chavez would have anything to do with harming Marrakech II, I'd suggest you keep that to yourself.

Before you answer your own question, I'd like to remind you that uttering death threats against another forumer is against the rules and may result in forumban, so if your first act upon becoming Chavez would have anything to do with harming Marrakech II, I'd suggest you keep that to yourself.


Chavez doesn't have to worry about me... or does he?

Before you answer your own question, I'd like to remind you that uttering death threats against another forumer is against the rules and may result in forumban, so if your first act upon becoming Chavez would have anything to do with harming Marrakech II, I'd suggest you keep that to yourself.Chavez doesn't have to worry about me... or does he?LOL...

Lets play some Nationstates...I am Chavez and you(any of you) are Rice(US state Dept)...

Here is my first 2 moves...

#1) The Gov of Venezuela officially send a Request that Pat Robertson be extradited to Venezuela for Terrorism (calling for the assassination of a head of state)...just to make the US gov uncomfortable...to piss you off.. :D

#2) I convince most SA countries to make a joint declaration that we are leaving the Non-proliferation-Treaty.

...Your move

gtg...Ill be back ...

1) Announce to the world that Chavez is Osama Bin Laden with plastic surgery. Then demand the government of Venezuela to turn him over. Then bomb Venezuela into oblivion. With help of right wing forces I would "capture" Venezuela. Install a new "El Presidente" then invite him to the white house for tea with the wife.

Or...

2) Send Pat Robertson on an all expenses one way trip to Venezuela. Then go and "rescue" him when for some odd reason he gets thrown in jail. While rescuing "Pat" some how Chavez goes "missing". Pat might somehow be involved in a friendly fire accident. Everything returns to normal. Venezuela lives happily ever after. Of course after we disarm Chavez's private thugs.

Or...

3) Just ignore the idiot and hope he goes away. While of course sending messages to his intelligence officers saying that "we are going to get you".

That damn dirty socialist! Never mind the fact that the US has often supported far right dictators, so keen are they to stop anyone left wing having any power in South America - he's just crazy to think they might do it again!

Ah if only it could be like the good old days in the backyard of uncle sam, when capitalism brought prosperity to everyone and people were happy it about it. Well, apart from the majority of people who lived in poverty, fear and opression - but you should only judge society by how it treats it's rich, and the rich had it pretty sweet before that damn thing called "democracy" got involved.

Ah if only it could be like the good old days in the backyard of uncle sam, when capitalism brought prosperity to everyone and people were happy it about it. Well, apart from the majority of people who lived in poverty, fear and opression - but you should only judge society by how it treats it's rich, and the rich had it pretty sweet before that damn thing called "democracy" got involved.


This is straight from a TROPICO scenerio isnt it!

After threats of Pat "Armageddon Preacher" Robertson, an Right so called Christian with good ties to the White House, I would get worried too.

A part of me wants Chavez to be assassinated. Remember kids, killing is wrong and not to be condoned unless it's the party line. You have to admit, after all Chavez's accusations, it would be interesting to see what happens if he was murdered. The knee-jerk reaction would be to blame America and that's where the fun would start. Would Chavez be considered a martyr? Would there be a backlash against capitalism? Would Bush decide to get his own television show?

I'm going on holiday to Venezuela next year. Good bye cruel world....

I'll just have get a big "EU" T-shirt or somthing

That damn dirty socialist! Never mind the fact that the US has often supported far right dictators, so keen are they to stop anyone left wing having any power in South America - he's just crazy to think they might do it again!

Ah if only it could be like the good old days in the backyard of uncle sam, when capitalism brought prosperity to everyone and people were happy it about it. Well, apart from the majority of people who lived in poverty, fear and opression - but you should only judge society by how it treats it's rich, and the rich had it pretty sweet before that damn thing called "democracy" got involved.


What I find funny is that Americans scream their love for Democracy to the winds, but when someone that isn't in their paycheck is democratically elected, they forget all about that, and start moving against democracy.

They supported Pinochet against the democratically elected Allende, they supported a coup against Chavez in the past, though the idea of an invasion is not very plausible, it is only logical that he takes steps to defend himself.

Oh, and by the way, some of you might consider that perhaps people in Venezuela like Chavez because currently venezuela is growing at 5% a year.

What I find funny is that Americans scream their love for Democracy to the winds, but when someone that isn't in their paycheck is democratically elected, they forget all about that, and start moving against democracy.

They supported Pinochet against the democratically elected Allende, they supported a coup against Chavez in the past, though the idea of an invasion is not very plausible, it is only logical that he takes steps to defend himself.

Oh, and by the way, some of you might consider that perhaps people in Venezuela like Chavez because currently venezuela is growing at 5% a year.

Perhaps you should consider that the US has no intention of invading Venezuela.
Chavez is only saying these sorts of things to keep the attention of the people of Venezuela.

It's almost the same tactic that Bush is using concerning the War on Terror. Keep people distracted.

I am sure Bush will want to invade. Bush wants to rule the wold.

This guy is turning into a regular class clown. Getting a little paranoid down in Venezuela I see. However I think this is absolute propaganda and no truth behind this dillusion. What do you all think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4635187.stm
One of my friends is married to a Venezuelan girl. He told me that when Chavez addresses his people and mentions Bush he sometimes has a little guy in a devil costume (who apparently is meant to represent Bush) come out on stage and do a little dance.

A part of me wants Chavez to be assassinated. Remember kids, killing is wrong and not to be condoned unless it's the party line. You have to admit, after all Chavez's accusations, it would be interesting to see what happens if he was murdered. The knee-jerk reaction would be to blame America and that's where the fun would start. Would Chavez be considered a martyr? Would there be a backlash against capitalism? Would Bush decide to get his own television show?
And a part of me wants to see America balkanized. For the good of the rest of us all.

Kids.

I'm going on holiday to Venezuela next year. Good bye cruel world....

I'll just have get a big "EU" T-shirt or somthing


An EU shirt wont suffice to say. I would get one of those "Che Guerrera" shirts. Have a Habana hanging out of your mouth and you will fit right in. In fact they may let you meet Chavez!

I'm going to make a long ass quoting post, I think. First off, I'm Venezuelan myself, I live here.

First quote:

But at least Chavez is doing it for all the right reasons. Even though the US could never succesfully invade Venezuela (Chavez enjoys overwhelming support from the population while Bush's approval rating is plummeting). I'm sure the White House would be more than willing to lend it support to any fascist coup designed to overthrow Chavez (they did in 2002). So I support Chavez in this, it's not about Bush vs Chavez, it's about democracy and human rights.

Chávez does not enjoy overwhelming suppoert for the people, he has about 50% at best, and more than half of them are bought-off. The thing in 2002 wasn't a coup, Chávez made that up to generate propaganda, what really happened:
Around those early days in April, 2002, there were HUGE demonstrations all over the capital city, Caracas, violent response by Chávez supporters and fear of an all-out conflict made Chávez take a decition, to resign. He was carried away to military camps for detention or something, and Pedro Carmona was chosen as temporary leader...he screwed up, started taking down everything Chávez had done in one single day, annuled the Constitution, generally crazy stuff. So the military thought they may have made a mistake, and, 48 hours later, returned Chávez to office. The day of National Humiliation, I call it.
Though I agree, Chávez is moved by the right reasons.

Is he getting paranoid, or merely strengthening his political base? A populace that feels threatened is going to line up behind their leadership...especially in south america where machismo among males is the rule. Takes the voter's minds off the poor economy and their weakening civil rights, doesn't it:-)

We Venezuelan people aren't like that, this isn't Cuba, the only ones who might be affected by this propaganda are the die-hard fanatics, who are ALREADY fanatics, what's the point in pissing them off more?
Ridiculous, I say...the oposition know the US isn't going to invade, so we don't care what dear Comandante says.

Hmm... I don't think even Bush is stupid enough to invade Venezuela; the populace supports him, Venezuela's jungles are death for Americans (just ask Vietnam vets), and there is absolutely no way that Bush can survive another unjustified war, even one invoking the idiotic Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine.

Most of Venezuela ISN'T in the Jungle, only the south, unlike Vietnam, and, as I said before, not that much of the population support him.

However, I don't think that Chavez (who, might I add, was democratically elected) is completely off-base to think that Bush is out to get him. Attempted coup in 2002, the fact that the US has been taking down unfriendly, democratically elected presidents in the Americas for years, Venezuela's oil supplies, Chavez's leftism in the face of Bush's rightism, Pat Robertson's comments... Yeah, I'd say that the guy has a right to be paranoid.

Chávez was democratically elected IN 1998! Not August, 2004, with the referundum, and NOT in the coming elections of 2006. And yes, given the US' history, Chávez has MORE than enough right to be concerned.


During recent months, Venezuela has been buying 100,000 AK-47 rifles and military helicopters from Russia, as well as ships and planes from Brazil and Spain. The arms-buying spree worries Colombian leaders, while US officials have asked why Venezuela bought more rifles than it has soldiers. Those officials have suggested that excess rifles might be smuggled to illegal armed groups in Colombia.

"What in the world [is the threat] that Venezuela sees that makes them want to have all those weapons?" US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld told the Miami Herald recently.

As a little corrector, they are AK-103 rifles. Why does Chávez buy more rifles than Venezuela has soldiers? I doubt the US have one rifle-per-soldier and nothing more, we need replacements, that's why! Stupid question, first, backup to the in-use 80,000 or so rifles, second, do they think the Venezuelan military is going to be the same size all the time? We have recruits, new components, it's NECESARY to have more rifles than soldiers. Stupid. Now, what's the threat we see? The US, first hand, or at least Chávez does...since when is it necesary to explain one's modernization of military forces? Especially considering most of that equipment is around 20-30 years old, hell, our old assault rifles, the FALs have been in service for 53 years! We were the first country in the world to accquire them and adopt them, and that includes Belgium. I don't know, but I doubt anyone gives the US the bad-eye when they develop those Strykers, or when they modernized and improved their military back i nthe '80s.

Oh, and by the way, some of you might consider that perhaps people in Venezuela like Chavez because currently venezuela is growing at 5% a year.

5% a year? Where the hell did you hear that? Even if it was true, it would be 5% yearly, after falling about 50% or something, so it wouldn't be that much. And YOU might consider we don't like him because we're STILL poor, in fact, we're POORER. Also, because he's a hypocrite, etc., etc.

Chavez is only saying these sorts of things to keep the attention of the people of Venezuela.

Nah, we just laugh at him and continue our work...except, as I have stated, his die-hards.

An EU shirt wont suffice to say. I would get one of those "Che Guerrera" shirts. Have a Habana hanging out of your mouth and you will fit right in. In fact they may let you meet Chavez!

Ja-Ja-Ja. And it's Che Guevara.

This guy is turning into a regular class clown. Getting a little paranoid down in Venezuela I see. However I think this is absolute propaganda and no truth behind this dillusion. What do you all think.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4635187.stm


Ah but I understand why he is paranoid. You have a spiritual advisor to Bush, call for his assassination. And also recently the US made israel cut off selling war planes to venezuela..Now why would the US stop the production of arms of a seemingly unhostile nation, unless there was a darker motive behind it...like..invasion

Ja-Ja-Ja. And it's Che Guevara.


Yeah my bad, I realised after I posted that. Must have been thinking of the Mexican joint down the road with that name. Anyway good post, thanks for the information. Time to go get some carne asada down at "Che's"

Ah but I understand why he is paranoid. You have a spiritual advisor to Bush, call for his assassination. And also recently the US made israel cut off selling war planes to venezuela..Now why would the US stop the production of arms of a seemingly unhostile nation, unless there was a darker motive behind it...like..invasion

Robertson is far from a spirtual advisor. Maybe for the 3 people that still listen to him. But the president? I don't think so.

Why would the US allow an allow to upgrade them when they can stop them from doing so. You always try and keep an edge on any opponent. That includes arms sales to all nations. Sell them the economy model instead of the sport model. Only makes sense. Especially to one that seems to be so paranoid of you.

Robertson is far from a spirtual advisor. Maybe for the 3 people that still listen to him. But the president? I don't think so.

Why would the US allow an allow to upgrade them when they can stop them from doing so. You always try and keep an edge on any opponent. That includes arms sales to all nations. Sell them the economy model instead of the sport model. Only makes sense. Especially to one that seems to be so paranoid of you.

Yet we seem to be pretty good at selling arms to potential enemies ourselves...

Iran/Iraq war in the 1980's anyone? Oh, and we were also funding Osama bin Laden around the same time...:rolleyes:

5% a year? Where the hell did you hear that? Even if it was true, it would be 5% yearly, after falling about 50% or something, so it wouldn't be that much. And YOU might consider we don't like him because we're STILL poor, in fact, we're POORER. Also, because he's a hypocrite, etc., etc.




16% last year, actually.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html

Oh so that why your delegation came here last month for some weapons evaluations, tactics and know-how.Anyways i hear they were impressed....

16% last year, actually.

Hmmph...doesn't seem right...hell, even if it did grow that much, it still doesn't go to the people, so what's the point?

Hmmph...doesn't seem right...hell, even if it did grow that much...Looks to me that you are not aware about your own country...If it is really your country.

A classic tactic of totalitarians, identify an outside threat and exploit it to rally the people behind the government. Hitler did it with the Reichstag, Bush (not actually a totalitarian, but not to concerned with personal freedoms) did it with 9/11, and now Chavez can do it with Bush.