NationStates Jolt Archive

Jeff Cooper
NRA Board of Directors


On Inner-City Violence:
"…the consensus is that no more than five to ten people in a hundred who die by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society. These people fight small wars amongst themselves. It would seem a valid social service to keep them well-supplied with ammunition."
Cooper's Corner, Guns and Ammo

Ted Nugent
NRA Board of Directors

On Dating:
" I met a couple guys in line yesterday who go, 'Write something to my
girlfriend, she won't let me go hunting.' I wrote her something and I said,
'Drop dead, bitch.' What good is she, trade her in, get a Dalmatian. Who
needs the wench?"
--WRIF FM Radio, Detroit, Michigan

On South Africans:
"Apartheid isn't that cut and dry. All men are not created equal. The
preponderance of South Africa is a different breed of man. I mean that with
no disrespect. I say that with great respect. I love them because I'm one of
them. They are still people of the earth, but they are different. They still
put bones in their noses, they still walk around naked, they wipe their
butts with their hands … These are different people. You give 'em
toothpaste, they fucking eat it ... I hope they don't become civilized.
They're way ahead of the game."
--Detroit Free Press Magazine

Leroy Pyle
Former NRA Board Member

On Sarah Brady, wife of Jim Brady, paralyzed due to injuries he received during the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan:
"That ugly cackler. She pulls her husband around like a pulltoy on a string. My friends and I say that if that ever happened to one of us and our wife did that, somebody would slip into the house one night and slit her throat."
--Quoted in "Under Fire: The NRA and the Battle for Gun Control"


Rep. Barbara Cubin (R-WY)
NRA Board of Directors

On an amendment to a gun control bill that would have banned gun sales to drug addicts or people in drug treatment:

"My sons are 25 and 30. They are blond-haired and blue-eyed. One amendment today said we could not sell guns to anybody under drug treatment. So, does that mean if you go into a black community, you cannot sell a gun to any black person, or does that mean because my..."
[NOTE: her comments were interrupted at that point by Melvin Watt (D-N.C.)
who demanded that her words be stricken from the record as inappropriate.] --Washington Post

"You might think that Mrs. Cubin then would have realized she had equated
African Americans with drug addicts and apologized as profusely as
possible."
--From Washington Post editorial about Cubin's remarks

While rifles for hunting and home protection I believe can be argued for, there is no reason for hand guns or automatic assault rifles other than to kill someone. And Ted Nugent frightens the crap out of me.

**sits back with popcorn (behind bulletproof glass)**

There are only two comments listed there that I object to. The one about black South Africans and the one about all black people being drug addicts. The rest of the comments are just fine.

While rifles for hunting and home protection I believe can be argued for, there is no reason for hand guns or automatic assault rifles other than to kill someone. And Ted Nugent frightens the crap out of me.

And your source for these is...?

More legally owned handguns are used for the use of home protection than any other type of firearm.

Assault Rifles are already heavy regulated under the 1934 provisions. The only murder committed w/ a legally owned one was by a police officer. The NRA is not trying to repeal that law.

Ted Nugent lives a completely natural lifestyle, no drinking, smoking or drugs. He also runs a camp for troubled and disadvantaged youth. This scares you?

**sits back with popcorn (behind bulletproof glass)**

*Hands CT salt for popcorn*

While rifles for hunting and home protection I believe can be argued for, there is no reason for hand guns or automatic assault rifles other than to kill someone.That hardly squares with the quote in your sig about governments winning wars and people losing them.


Now, if anyone's interested in a gun rights organization whose leaders don't say foolish things, I recommend looking at JPFO (http://jpfo.org/).

<snip random quotes by some of the NRA's excitable side - counterable by random quotes from the Hopolophobe Excitable Front>
Thus the difference between Gun Choice supporters and Anti-Gun Choice Hopolophobes. I post a link to an international debate and ask to discuss it. You post post absurdisims by soome of the NRA's more radical side. Good one. :rolleyes:
While rifles for hunting and home protection I believe can be argued for, Rifles are lousy for home defense. Handguns are much better. there is no reason for hand guns see above. or automatic assault riflesMostly illegal anyway. other than to kill someone. except for Tazers - which are only good once, please tell me how a gun can be useful for "hunting" or "Home Protection" if it can't be used to kill? Ted Nugent frightens the crap out of me.Is that because he is a Rockstar who gets high on hunting rather than Heroin?

There are only two comments listed there that I object to. The one about black South Africans and the one about all black people being drug addicts. The rest of the comments are just fine.
Ditto. I especially like this one:
" I met a couple guys in line yesterday who go, 'Write something to my girlfriend, she won't let me go hunting.' I wrote her something and I said,
'Drop dead, bitch.' What good is she, trade her in, get a Dalmatian. Who
needs the wench?"
Sounds like something I would say.:D

That hardly squares with the quote in your sig about governments winning wars and people losing them.


Now, if anyone's interested in a gun rights organization whose leaders don't say foolish things, I recommend looking at JPFO (http://jpfo.org/).
Nah, Zellman says some pretty foolish things too. While I can sympathize with much of his data, his rhetoric of Cops/Feds = Jack-Booted-Thugs/proto-Nazis is a little too Godwinish for me.

Is that because he is a Rockstar who gets high on hunting rather than Heroin?

... at least not anymore. He's admitted to marijuana and cocaine use in the past. Although now he brags about beating people up merely for using the same drugs. :headbang:

... at least not anymore. He's admitted to marijuana and cocaine use in the past. Although now he brags about beating people up merely for using the same drugs. :headbang:
What? He's admitted using drugs? I thought he was always bragging about how when all the other rock stars were too wasted he was out chasing pussy.

What? He's admitted using drugs? I thought he was always bragging about how when all the other rock stars were too wasted he was out chasing pussy.

According to Wikipedia, it was in a 1977 PEOPLE interview. About 50 joints and Coke once back in the 60's.

What? He's admitted using drugs? I thought he was always bragging about how when all the other rock stars were too wasted he was out chasing pussy.

Check Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nugent):
In a 1977 interview with People magazine, Nugent admitted smoking "50 joints and the '60s" and having tried cocaine "once."

(I've seen this discussed elsewhere but Wiki is handy.)

EDIT: Nugent's stories vary.

http://www.creemmagazine.com/BeatGoesOn/TedNugent/CrimeAndPunishment001.html:

CREEM: Are you still a hard case on drugs?

NUGENT: Real hard. I have never done a drug in my life. I have never smoked a joint in my life. I took two tokes off a joint with the MC5 one night and almost gagged and thought it was stupid. And that's it. I took two tokes off a joint once. I snorted one line of cocaine. And one line of crystal methedrine before my draft physical—but God, that was worth it because I wanted to see the look on the Sergeant's face. That's it for drugs.

http://www.classicrockrevisited.com/Interviews05/TedNugent05.htm

Jeb: I want to address the topic of being clean and sober. I have had people in the industry and even ex-band mates tell me that I am full of it when I say Ted Nugent is clean and sober. How do you respond?

Ted: I have been clean and sober my entire life. I did get a little bit of a buzz on when I was 15. I drank some Pabst Blue Ribbon beers at a fraternity party at the University of Detroit with my band The Lourdes. In fact, I believe it was just before we called ourselves the Lourdes; I believe we were The Royal High Boys. I drank some beers but I didn’t really get pukey. I was pretty close for a kid, though.

I am a damn human being. I am a perfect human being because I am fallible. I am so fallible that I am perfect. I am perfectly capable of making stupid mistakes. I have never touched any drugs. I used to go the MC5’s house to try to penetrate their stupidity, even though I had enormous respect for them as men and virtuosos. I would do everything I could to get Wayne, Fred, Dennis, Michael and Rob to quit destroying themselves because I watched them lose it. I watched so many people lose it with the marijuana, the hashish and god knows what other logic destroying chemicals they were ingesting. I put an occasional hashish pipe in my mouth but I would blow on it till the damn thing glowed and little flames came out of it. I would blow on joints until they glowed. I have never even smoked a cigarette in my life.

That hardly squares with the quote in your sig about governments winning wars and people losing them.


Now, if anyone's interested in a gun rights organization whose leaders don't say foolish things, I recommend looking at JPFO (http://jpfo.org/).
What do you mean about my quote?

There are only two comments listed there that I object to. The one about black South Africans and the one about all black people being drug addicts. The rest of the comments are just fine.
The one where he advised the guy to shoot his g/f for not letting him engage in hunting, a potentially dangerous activity...? You agree with it?

And your source for these is...?

More legally owned handguns are used for the use of home protection than any other type of firearm.

Assault Rifles are already heavy regulated under the 1934 provisions. The only murder committed w/ a legally owned one was by a police officer. The NRA is not trying to repeal that law.

Ted Nugent lives a completely natural lifestyle, no drinking, smoking or drugs. He also runs a camp for troubled and disadvantaged youth. This scares you?
I don't need a source for my opinion on handguns and automatic rifles.

According to Wikipedia, it was in a 1977 PEOPLE interview. About 50 joints and Coke once back in the 60's.
But he grew up. If hypocricy about drug use were fatal, there would be a lot of dead Boomers today... :rolleyes:

Point is, he DID give it up - and he feels it improved his life & music tremendously, and he HAS seen what abuse did to his peer group. So for at least the last 28 years he's been clean and living a natural hunter/gatherer lifestyle - while still touring as a rockstar.

The one where he advised the guy to shoot his g/f for not letting him engage in hunting, a potentially dangerous activity...? You agree with it?
He also agrees with killing Sarah Brady.

The one where he advised the guy to shoot his g/f for not letting him engage in hunting, a potentially dangerous activity...? You agree with it?

And exactly which quote said that?

The one where he advised the guy to shoot his g/f for not letting him engage in hunting, a potentially dangerous activity...? You agree with it?
Writing a note that says "drop dead" and telling the guy to "trade her in" is hardly advising him to shoot her.

Stop making things up.

The one where he advised the guy to shoot his g/f for not letting him engage in hunting, a potentially dangerous activity...? You agree with it?
He never said to shoot the girlfriend. He just said "Drop dead bitch". It can't even be interpreted as a threat. Oh, and hunting isn't all that dangerous. I've got friends and family members who hunt. None of them has ever come back from hunting wounded or killed.

Oh, by the way, yes I do agree with the statement. His girlfriend doesn't get a say in whether or not he goes hunting, only in whether or not he can bang other girls.

I don't need a source for my opinion on handguns and automatic rifles.

I didn't ask for that. I asked for the source of the quotes.

While rifles for hunting and home protection I believe can be argued for, there is no reason for hand guns or automatic assault rifles other than to kill someone. And Ted Nugent frightens the crap out of me.

Home protection is okay, but handguns aren't? Handguns are usually your best bet for home protection, so...

But he grew up. If hypocricy about drug use were fatal, there would be a lot of dead Boomers today... :rolleyes:

Point is, he DID give it up - and he feels it improved his life & music tremendously, and he HAS seen what abuse did to his peer group. So for at least the last 28 years he's been clean and living a natural hunter/gatherer lifestyle - while still touring as a rockstar.

I'm not critisizing him. Just stating where he admitted to some early drug use.

He never said to shoot the girlfriend. He just said "Drop dead bitch". It can't even be interpreted as a threat. Oh, and hunting isn't all that dangerous. I've got friends and family members who hunt. None of them has ever come back from hunting wounded or killed.I have... he tripped on a rock and busted his nose. 'course he also broke a leg rock climbing once... I guess it's ROCKS that are dangerous.

I'm not critisizing him. Just stating where he admitted to some early drug use.
I know. Wasn't :rolleyes: at you specifically in this case... ;)

He also agrees with killing Sarah Brady.
Where in the quote does he say to kill Sarah Brady? She's an annoying, opportunist moron, but he never says to kill her. He does say that if he were in her husband's place he'd want one of his friends to slit her throat, but he doesn't come out and say "Kill Sarah Brady". It's a small difference, but an important one.

He also agrees with killing Sarah Brady.
Source - or Slander?

But he grew up. If hypocricy about drug use were fatal, there would be a lot of dead Boomers today... :rolleyes:

Point is, he DID give it up - and he feels it improved his life & music tremendously, and he HAS seen what abuse did to his peer group. So for at least the last 28 years he's been clean and living a natural hunter/gatherer lifestyle - while still touring as a rockstar.

I agree -- but he lies about it on a regular basis.

He sometimes claims to have smoked joints but not inhaled. He sometimes admits to using various drugs.

He usually claims he never did any drugs. He claims he beat people up for offering him drugs.

This is all a minor part of the many ways Ted Nugent is both an asshole and good guy.

He does some good stuff for kids (including his work with DARE) and wildlife. He also is a draft-dodger and adulterer with some downright disgusting opinions.

The one where he advised the guy to shoot his g/f for not letting him engage in hunting, a potentially dangerous activity...? You agree with it?

Sports safety:

A study of sports injuries conducted by American Sports Data, Inc., ranked hunting 29th out of 100 sports in the number of reported injuries per capita. The injury rate for hunters was just 1.3 per hundred, compared to 1.7 for aerobics, 1.8 for horseback riding, 9.0 for cheerleading and 9.3 for soccer. Football was the most dangerous, with 18.8 injuries per 100 participants.

Where in the quote does he say to kill Sarah Brady? She's an annoying, opportunist moron, but he never says to kill her. He does say that if he were in her husband's place he'd want one of his friends to slit her throat, but he doesn't come out and say "Kill Sarah Brady". It's a small difference, but an important one.
Actually, that was Leroy Pyle.

I agree -- but he lies about it on a regular basis.

He sometimes claims to have smoked joints but not inhaled. He sometimes admits to using various drugs.

He usually claims he never did any drugs. He claims he beat people up for offering him drugs.

This is all a minor part of the many ways Ted Nugent is both an asshole and good guy.

He does some good stuff for kids (including his work with DARE) and wildlife. He also is a draft-dodger and adulterer with some downright disgusting opinions.

Agreed. Youhave to give him credit for how he got his defferment though. :)

I agree -- but he lies about it on a regular basis.

He sometimes claims to have smoked joints but not inhaled. He sometimes admits to using various drugs.

He usually claims he never did any drugs. He claims he beat people up for offering him drugs.

This is all a minor part of the many ways Ted Nugent is both an asshole and good guy.

He does some good stuff for kids (including his work with DARE) and wildlife. He also is a draft-dodger and adulterer with some downright disgusting opinions.No real issues with any of your points. The common tie that binds all Boomers are some to all of what you cite about Nugent. Is it any wonder Hippy/Yuppie/Boomers are only appreciated by themselves?

Actually, that was Leroy Pyle.
What was Leroy Pyle?

What was Leroy Pyle?
from OP:

Leroy Pyle
Former NRA Board Member

On Sarah Brady, wife of Jim Brady, paralyzed due to injuries he received during the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan:
"That ugly cackler. She pulls her husband around like a pulltoy on a string. My friends and I say that if that ever happened to one of us and our wife did that, somebody would slip into the house one night and slit her throat." --Quoted in "Under Fire: The NRA and the Battle for Gun Control"

from OP:

Leroy Pyle
Former NRA Board Member

On Sarah Brady, wife of Jim Brady, paralyzed due to injuries he received during the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan:
"That ugly cackler. She pulls her husband around like a pulltoy on a string. My friends and I say that if that ever happened to one of us and our wife did that, somebody would slip into the house one night and slit her throat." --Quoted in "Under Fire: The NRA and the Battle for Gun Control"
Oh, ok.

With the risk of steering the topic back on course, I think that the quote about South Africans was made entirely in jest. Would anyone really say that they wipe their ass with their hands, and then say that such a person was ahead of the game (as far as being civilized)?

With the risk of steering the topic back on course, I think that the quote about South Africans was made entirely in jest. Would anyone really say that they wipe their ass with their hands, and then say that such a person was ahead of the game (as far as being civilized)?
The 'they' refers to the people who were institutionalizing apartheid.

The 'they' refers to the people who were institutionalizing apartheid.
"I hope they don't become civilized. They're way ahead of the game." seems to be implying that the uncivilzed (tooth-paste eating is uncivilized) are way ahead of the game.
Unless you can prove otherwise, that statement is going firmly into the off the ccuff sarcasm drawer, and all those people who are offended by it can print their names on my list of "Easily Offended And/Or Slightly Daft".

The 'they' refers to the people who were institutionalizing apartheid.

No, it doesnt.

They still put bones in their noses, they still walk around naked, they wipe their butts with their hands … These are different people. You give 'em
toothpaste, they fucking eat it ... I hope they don't become civilized.
They're way ahead of the game.

They stays consistent. Unless he is claiming those who institutionalize apartheid do things like wipe their butts with their hands, Its obviously not meant at them.

While rifles for hunting and home protection I believe can be argued for, there is no reason for hand guns or automatic assault rifles other than to kill someone. And Ted Nugent frightens the crap out of me.

Ted Nugent is breaking no laws.

If you go to the site http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/wuvc01.htm

you will find that nearly half of all firearm murders are committed by African-Americans - and the victims of those murders are African-Americans.

An African-American is far, far more likely to use a firearm to commit murder, and far more likely to be murdered by firearm. They are also more likely to live in an urban area where firearms are illegal.

If guns caused the risk of murder and death equally, then the firearms murder rate for whites would be higher, as they have a much higher firearms possession rate. However, we note that this is not the case - far from it.

It is not racist to point directly at statistics and note that guns are not the problem. The firearm murder rate amongst African-Americans is appalling - and no one is stepping up to the plate to say why - most of you would rather blame the inanimate object - the firearm - rather than blame the people who are victimizing themselves.

It is not racist to point directly at statistics and note that guns are not the problem. The firearm murder rate amongst African-Americans is appalling - and no one is stepping up to the plate to say why - most of you would rather blame the inanimate object - the firearm - rather than blame the people who are victimizing themselves.
But, but, they can't handle themselves without our rules and guidance. Why, if they can't blame republican whitey for their problems, where would that leave the democrats?

But, but, they can't handle themselves without our rules and guidance. Why, if they can't blame republican whitey for their problems, where would that leave the democrats?

A politician of any ilk that actually cared about what was happenning to African-Americans would look to the causes - it's not the firearms.

Even if you don't count firearm murder - and only count violent crime committed without firearms, African-Americans are grossly overrepresented. They are in the middle of a major crisis and none of their leaders (nor any of the Democrats, and none of the Republicans) are willing to step up and address the problems.

If whites were killing blacks at this rate, it would be called genocide.

Unfortunately, political correctness prevents anyone from saying what the real problems are - no one is allowed to criticize the African-American culture that has caused half of the problem, and no one is allowed to criticize the War on Drugs that is causing the other half of the problem.

I guarantee that if whites were dying at this rate, someone would do something about it.

I find it appalling that no major African-American leader stands up and admits the nature of the problem.

People find it easier to say, "the guns did it" - it's easier because the guns can't argue with you. It's very, very easy not to take responsibility for the problem.

Ted Nugent is breaking no laws.

If you go to the site http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/wuvc01.htm

you will find that nearly half of all firearm murders are committed by African-Americans - and the victims of those murders are African-Americans.

An African-American is far, far more likely to use a firearm to commit murder, and far more likely to be murdered by firearm. They are also more likely to live in an urban area where firearms are illegal.

If guns caused the risk of murder and death equally, then the firearms murder rate for whites would be higher, as they have a much higher firearms possession rate. However, we note that this is not the case - far from it.

It is not racist to point directly at statistics and note that guns are not the problem. The firearm murder rate amongst African-Americans is appalling - and no one is stepping up to the plate to say why - most of you would rather blame the inanimate object - the firearm - rather than blame the people who are victimizing themselves.
What you are talking about is a different subject. Mine is the NRA. We can talk about African Americans shooting each other in a different forum.
A semi or fully automatic weapon is not needed in hunting or home defense. That's one of the arguments I have against the NRA.

What you are talking about is a different subject. Mine is the NRA. We can talk about African Americans shooting each other in a different forum.
A semi or fully automatic weapon is not needed in hunting or home defense. That's one of the arguments I have against the NRA.

All of the women I've trained to defend themselves against their stalkers are using semiautomatic handguns.

They carry them all the time. Unlike other women in my jurisdiction in similar circumstances, none of these women have come to any harm.

Women who are under threat of death who don't carry guns eventually get killed. The women I've trained do not.

Would you deprive them of their only means of effective defense?

Really? I have class Wednesday night - I'll be sure to tell them that you think they should be disarmed.

What you are talking about is a different subject. Mine is the NRA. We can talk about African Americans shooting each other in a different forum.
A semi or fully automatic weapon is not needed in hunting or home defense. That's one of the arguments I have against the NRA.

You're also the one who brought up the various statements about African-Americans.

Your ignorance of US firearms laws is appalling.

Fully automatic weapons have been illegal since 1934 - only a handful of collectors can own them. Interestingly, since 1934, NO FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPON REGISTERED UNDER THE NFA PROGRAM HAS EVER BEEN USED IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME.

Every "fully automatic weapon" you've ever heard about in a crime was NEVER owned by a collector. Not one.

All of the women I've trained to defend themselves against their stalkers are using semiautomatic handguns.

They carry them all the time. Unlike other women in my jurisdiction in similar circumstances, none of these women have come to any harm.

Women who are under threat of death who don't carry guns eventually get killed. The women I've trained do not.

Would you deprive them of their only means of effective defense?

Really? I have class Wednesday night - I'll be sure to tell them that you think they should be disarmed.
Heh heh, concerning women with guns:
http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20050923-083928-8729r

Kashmiri women take up arms for self-protection
Prakriiti Gupta
Middle East Times
September 23, 2005


MARAH, Jammu and Kashmir -- Women in Jammu and Kashmir have now picked up guns against Islamic militants to protect their homes.

At least 30 Muslim women in the disputed region to the north of India and Pakistan have constituted a separate all-women Village Defense Committee (VDC) and are operating with the Indian army in the forested mountains of Surankote in the Poonch district bordering the Pakistani side of Kashmir to fight militants.

"Now militants do not dare enter our village," said 18-year-old Nishat Bee, the youngest member of the group. Her companion, however, corrects her by saying, "In fact militants have not been this way since we picked up guns against them."

On a visit to the twin villages of Marah and Kulali, one finds tall, slender Muslim women sporting rifles on their shoulders while grazing cattle alone in deep forests or standing on top of the roofs of their homes to keep a watch on militants.

"I am proud to fight a Jihad [holy war] against marauders who have cheated us of our dignity and honor," says Shamima Akhter, the 30-year-old commander of this particular women's group.

"Militants who would force us to provide them shelter, food and at times to entertain them physically were harassing us physically and mentally. If we opposed them they would commit rapes or kill our family members. We wanted to confront them and the only way to do it was to acquaint ourselves with the basic functioning of guns and grenades," she added.

The majority of the men of this border belt work in Gulf countries leaving their women, children and elderly back in remote mountainous villages, the access to majority of which is through hours of rough walks that make the women soft targets.

It is common practice for the militants to seek shelter, food or seek sexual favors from these women, and in case of refusal, it is not unusual to rape or even kill them, using locals to work as porters on gunpoint in villages.

The Kashmir conflict traces its roots to 1947, when India and Pakistan simultaneously gained their independence from Britain. Pakistan was formed from the majority Muslim part of British territory, and India from the majority Hindu part.

The state of Jammu-Kashmir, with a majority Muslim population but a Hindu ruler, chose to be a part of India in a process that many believed to be illegal. Since then, India and Pakistan have fought three major wars over Kashmir, and close to 1 million have died in the violence. In 1989 the Kashmiri independence movement turned militant and began to promote the independence of Kashmir from India through violent means.

The VDCs were set up in Jammu and Kashmir in the mid-nineties following a number of massacres of the innocent inhabitants of the troubled region's far-flung villages. As there were no police or army pickets near these inaccessible villages, the Indian security forces provided military training to locals, and equipped them with weapons and wireless sets to counter militant attacks. At least 450 such VDCs are now functional in Jammu and Kashmir.

The foundation of this first women's VDC goes back to March 2003, when local Muslim priest Mir Hussain was killed by a group of mainly foreign Lashkar E-Tayyaba militants when he tried to stop the rape of his wife.

The priest's brother, Fazal Hussain, returned from the Gulf where he had been working, and with the help of the Indian army constituted the first ever-Muslim village committee in the border district of Poonch.

This group helped the Indian army destroy the biggest militant hideout in the famous Hill Kaka bowl in the mountains of Surankote in July 2003. At least 150 foreign militants were killed in the operation.

To avenge those killings, a Lashkar group in April 2004 attacked Kulali village and killed 14 women and children while the men were out on an operation.

Later, in June 2004, the militants executed another attack, which was repulsed by a woman, Khatoon Begum, who had learned to use a 303 Rifle from her son. Although she died in the attack her act helped save at least a dozen members of her family from Islamic guerrillas.

"Khatoon Begum's daring act lead to the foundation of all Muslim women VDC. We were supported by our husbands and fathers and thus trained ourselves in the operation of 303 rifles, SLRs, grenade throwing and other military aspects of how to react and repulse a militant attack", stated another women fighter, Shahnaz.

Tahira Begum, wife of VDC member Tahir Hussain Choudhary and mother of three says, "we want to live with honor and dignity and [for that] we have waged a war against these gun trotters [who are] a blot on the name of Islam.

"It is an amazing feeling to hold a gun in one's hand for a noble cause," Begum added. "On several occasions in the past eight months I have come across jihadis in the forests who are scared and who go into hiding. I am proud to be fighting a jihad against these marauders who cheated us of our dignity and honor."

Trained in the firing, basic handling and cleaning of weapons, as well as in battle craft and field craft drills, nearly every month these women go to nearby army camps to polish up on their shooting skills and to update their knowledge of weapons used commonly by terrorists.

"They have an extraordinary learning zest," said Indian army Public Relations Officer R.K Chhibber.

"We check on their fire ranges and other technical aspects almost every month. They also assist us in vital operations."

Heh, gotta love people who stand up for themselves.