NationStates Jolt Archive

So, who would win then? If you haven't seen Star Trek or haven't played StarCraft, you won't know what I'm talking about. Poll to come.

Borg over Zerg...but the Protoss kicks everyones butt!

I guess it depends on whether the Zerg are immune to the nanoprobes. If so, they'd infest the Borg, and the overmind would be in control. Otherwise, collective wins.

the Protoss kicks everyones butt!

True.

Now that I am thinking about it....what about Species 8472?

I guess it depends on whether the Zerg are immune to the nanoprobes. If so, they'd infest the Borg, and the overmind would be in control. Otherwise, collective wins.

That's about all you can say on that arguement.

Now that I am thinking about it....what about Species 8472?

They got pwned in the end though, since the doctor could apparently figure out in a few hours what had eluded the entire collective...

They got pwned in the end though, since the doctor could apparently figure out in a few hours what had eluded the entire collective...

Yes, but they adapted (in a startling Borg-like move) and even made a future cameo...posed to take over earth, thinking humanity was an ally of the Borg.

Now that I am thinking about it....what about Species 8472?

they'd cross breed with the zerg and make zerg 8472.who would own the collective
All your cube are belong to us

Yes, but they adapted (in a startling Borg-like move) and even made a future cameo...posed to take over earth, thinking humanity was an ally of the Borg.

Oh right. I knew about the taking over earth thing, but not the adaptation. Makes sense though.

I guess it depends on whether the Zerg are immune to the nanoprobes. If so, they'd infest the Borg, and the overmind would be in control. Otherwise, collective wins.

If the Zerg became part of the collective, they'd still win. The Overmind's a bodiless entity and thus cannot be controlled by the Borg. It'd just control the Zerg and the Borg.

Anyone know how long it takes for the Borg to assimilate something? It'd have to be pretty damn fast, otherwise the Zerg would overrun them.

zerg overrun the borg? with each cube carrying tens of thousands of drones and the borg able to assimilate entire planets in (seemingly) mere hours or days, i think the borg could put up a pretty good fight, and have the numbers (many hundereds of billions of drones) to throw at the zerg. quite probably an even match.

if the borg could adapt their shielding to withstand physical - and not just energy-based - attacks, then the borg would pwn without question.

otherwise i'd say the overmind would be hard to control, even if assimilated - resistance isn't futile if you're smart enough, and a giant brain such is the overmind probably qualifies. that said, the overmind controlling the a single borg through the collective link is certainly plausable, but the overmind trying to control the hive mind - now there's a real battle of wills :eek:
besides, who needs to control the overmind? why not just kill it if it poses such a potential threat? the borg are pretty rational, not to mention ruthless, when it comes to these things.


overall i say its a tough choice, and its gonna be an even tougher fight, but i'd say the borg just clinch it (assuming they can't simply 'adapt' that is)

I've said it before on numerous occasions: I don't care who the challenger is or what universe they're from, no-one but no-one can surmount the Daleks. Invading planets? Galaxies? Feh. The Daleks have loftier goals.

Say it with me, kids:

Total conquest of the entire universe.

You gotta think big when you're a genetically engineered lump of slimy green putresence wheeling around in an oversized pepper mill.

Neither!

The Necrons would fight both at the same time and kick ass and take names.

I've often thought about this. Two species, highly adaptable, able to assimilate other species, and numbers in the hundreds of billions, maybe trillions.

I'm not certain the Borg's personal shields can protect them from the bio-weapons of the Zerg, but they have proven to be highly resourceful in the past. They would just adapt physical armor to protect themselves.

One advantage the Zerg have is their highly viscious nature. But again, the Borg have gone up against highly hostile races before (Klingon anyone?), and brought them to thier knees.

It is a tough choice, but I think the Borg would eventually win out, but only after a very LONG conflict.

Resistance is futile bitches!

Are we talking post-overmind Zerg?
Because Kerrigan would be able to find a way to double cross their asses.

And the Zerg dont need logistics, all they need to do is cannbilise one another to sustain their hunger

The zerg. Lets look at the facts.

1. Shielding is not a problem to the Zerg. The Protoss have it, the Terrans can generate it. The zerg can take it out.

2. Have you seen the size of Starcraft Carriers, or even Battlecruisers? Huge. I would take a Protoss battle fleet over a starfleet fleet with crap-ass phasers any day. Looking at progression, Protoss > Starfleet. Starfleet sometimes > Borg. Zerg a decent amount of the time > Protoss. Zerg > Starfleet. Zerg has a chance against borg ships, seeing as they can take out protoss battle fleets(A couple tens of thousands of Devourers, Guardians, Scourges, and Mutalisks could damage a number of Cubes enough to land in land forces, and seeing as the borg have limited power other than space-power, especially having to get physical to assimilate people(which makes me wonder how the hell they assimilate entire species, maybe just by zerging them?), the zerg could easily overrun ships).

3. Again, ground power. If the borg ever had to face the zerg on land, they would get owned. They have never been seen to be resistant to physical attacks, and the zerg are kings at this. Lurkers would wipe out entire columns, not to mention ultralisks.

4. If we are really going to go into this, don't forget defilers. If the borg manage to bring cubes to fire on ground forces, mass dark swarm would protect them, and plague on their land forces wouldnt be fun either. Also, Spawn Broodlings from Queens simply pwns. Zerg ground forces would get mass broodling'd, from range.

5. Energy attacks aren't especially harmful to the Zerg. Thing Dragoon's, arbiters.

6. The Zerg infact overtook the Protoss, and Aiur. As it stands, they are the masters of the starcraft universe. Simply, Zerg > Terran/Humans > Borg.

7. The Borg might actually not be able to infect the zerg. One, the zerg for the most part have ultra-dense carapace, which can withstand very heavy attacks. I don't think a borg injector would just pierce through this. And Two, the Zerg are psionic. I don't know if the Borg would be able to overcome the psionic part of the Zerg.

8. Unlike the Borg, the Zerg discarded weaker races, and only assimilated those who were powerful.

9. The number of Zerg are incredible. Even with incredible speeds, the borg only bring a few ships to bear in each conflict. However, the Zerg are in such numbers that numerating them might as well be impossible.

10. I would take the protoss over the Borg, and the protoss lost to the zerg. Good enough reason for me.

I've often thought about this. Two species, highly adaptable, able to assimilate other species, and numbers in the hundreds of billions, maybe trillions.

I'm not certain the Borg's personal shields can protect them from the bio-weapons of the Zerg, but they have proven to be highly resourceful in the past. They would just adapt physical armor to protect themselves.

One advantage the Zerg have is their highly viscious nature. But again, the Borg have gone up against highly hostile races before (Klingon anyone?), and brought them to thier knees.

It is a tough choice, but I think the Borg would eventually win out, but only after a very LONG conflict.

Resistance is futile bitches!

Even before Mutalisks and Guardians, the zerg were able to obliterate the Xel'naga fleets in space. They can destroy starships with their acid. Personal armour will just slow the zerg down, slightly.

If you think the Klingon's are close to as vicious, you really have little clue about the zerg. And the klingons are humanoid, its an entirely different realm with the zerg, who can all fare in space. Every one of them.

Ah, the good old days of endless hours of StarCraft online *reminisces*


I vote Zerg... eventually they will win via attrition.

Even before Mutalisks and Guardians, the zerg were able to obliterate the Xel'naga fleets in space. They can destroy starships with their acid. Personal armour will just slow the zerg down, slightly.

If you think the Klingon's are close to as vicious, you really have little clue about the zerg. And the klingons are humanoid, its an entirely different realm with the zerg, who can all fare in space. Every one of them.

I've played both Starcraft and Brood War...I know how vicious these little bitches are.

I just think that the methodical nature of the Borg will win out in the end.

I'd take the Zerg.. can't stop the Zerg..

However, after the second coming of Adun, the Protoss will have total invincibility, I hear.

I don't know anything about StarTrek or the Borg for that matter. But I'm still positive that the Zerg woudl win.

1. The Zerg were created by the Xel'Naga (Creators of the Protoss also) as an experimental species. Well the Xel'Naga saw that the Zerg had the capabilities to quickly infest other species, and mutating them into vicious beings. The Zerg also coudl quickly infest planets. The Zerg finally found the Xel'Naga and the Xel'Naga left the Zerg marking the experiment as a failure.

2. The Zerg don't operate as individuals units, they operate as a whole, all controlled by a psinic link back to an overmind. The Zerg care nothing for individual loss and can rapidly reproduce, therefore they would come at you in never ending waves until you were finally completly destroyed. Also, they have very thick carpaces that can withstand huge amounts of damage before they finally are slain. Hell, a zergling can take mouthfulls of Gauss Rifle Uranium bullets before they are killed. Get them with support from a decent number of Lurkers and Hyrdalisks they would be unstoppable. Mix in some Ultralisks and Defilers, and you wouldn't last for over an hour. That's not even mentioning, the creature that they infest once they land on a planet. Or the suicide soldiers they have. Throw in the bloodlust they have, and their natural vicious nature and you have yourself a bloody problem. In my opinion, if you have the Zerg trying to attack you on land you will fail.

3. Every Zerg creature can survive in space. So if a fleet of ships were to attack them, not only do they have Scourges (I believe that's what they are called), that are basically suicidal bombers, that can fly right up into a ship and blow a good portion of it out of existance. A large army of scourges could quickly take out a fleet in my opinion. They also have the support of Mutalisks (which can attack multiple targets at a time) and Devours, you most likely don't have a chance. The Zerg took out both the Protoss and Terran fleets with ease.

I'll quit there, tho I could probably come up with more reasons why the zerg are most likely the most dominant species.

...especially having to get physical to assimilate people(which makes me wonder how the hell they assimilate.... That is the Key indeed....Borg need Physical contact to assimilate...

Clouds(the Zerg can generate overwhelming numbers) of Devourers, Guardians and Scourges would indeed destroy all the Cubes before the Borg can even get close enough attemp to try the assimilation thing...

Not even close....

I'd kind of have to put my money down on the Borg for this one...

Why?

Because, contrary to one poster, the Borg assimilate only those characteristics species that are good to inherit. Remember, the Borg build their own babies (ie iron-womb, etc). These babies have all of the genetic characteristics of the best genes availible to the Borg.

This being said, the Borg are well... Cyborgs. They incorporate the best of both Technology and Genetics while the Zerg only encompass the best of Genetics. This being said, were one zerg (say a zergling or hydralisk) assimilated and returned to the collective, the Borg would then immediatly incorporate this new genetic material into their breeding schemes.

You'd then have big bugs versus big huge naturally armored carapaced techonology carapaced 'Resistance is futile' humanoid style bugs... and I think the big huge naturally armored carapaced techonology carapaced 'Resistance is futile' humanoid style bugs would win.

If you have played WH40k, imagine a true Genestealer and then just put him in Space Marine Power Armor, give him a rosarius, and there you have it.

I'd kind of have to put my money down on the Borg for this one...

Why?

Because, contrary to one poster, the Borg assimilate only those characteristics species that are good to inherit. Remember, the Borg build their own babies (ie iron-womb, etc). These babies have all of the genetic characteristics of the best genes availible to the Borg.

This being said, the Borg are well... Cyborgs. They incorporate the best of both Technology and Genetics while the Zerg only encompass the best of Genetics. This being said, were one zerg (say a zergling or hydralisk) assimilated and returned to the collective, the Borg would then immediatly incorporate this new genetic material into their breeding schemes.

You'd then have big bugs versus big huge naturally armored carapaced techonology carapaced 'Resistance is futile' humanoid style bugs... and I think the big huge naturally armored carapaced techonology carapaced 'Resistance is futile' humanoid style bugs would win.

exactly - the borg adapt. they adapt at everything you can possibly throw at them, so the only way to win against them is to outsmart em... and i don't think the average zerg is going to do that.
though i may not agree with everything in your post, you're on the right lines there.


2. Have you seen the size of Starcraft Carriers, or even Battlecruisers? Huge. I would take a Protoss battle fleet over a starfleet fleet with crap-ass phasers any day. Looking at progression, Protoss > Starfleet. Starfleet sometimes > Borg. Zerg a decent amount of the time > Protoss. Zerg > Starfleet. Zerg has a chance against borg ships, seeing as they can take out protoss battle fleets(A couple tens of thousands of Devourers, Guardians, Scourges, and Mutalisks could damage a number of Cubes enough to land in land forces, and seeing as the borg have limited power other than space-power, especially having to get physical to assimilate people(which makes me wonder how the hell they assimilate entire species, maybe just by zerging them?), the zerg could easily overrun ships).
i'd like to see what a quantom torpedo does to any zerg in space... antimatter explosions are a little bigger than acid-bile based weaponary you know ;)

5. Energy attacks aren't especially harmful to the Zerg. Thing Dragoon's, arbiters.
adaptation

7. The Borg might actually not be able to infect the zerg. One, the zerg for the most part have ultra-dense carapace, which can withstand very heavy attacks. I don't think a borg injector would just pierce through this. And Two, the Zerg are psionic. I don't know if the Borg would be able to overcome the psionic part of the Zerg.
again, adaptation. at one point the borg were considering developing an airbourne assimilation virus for mass deployment. the zerg wouldn't know what hit em... and how the tables would turn once you had biomechanically altered zerg with borg implants fighting against their own mother species (as Empryia said)

which brings me onto another point: the borg can and will use all kinds of weapons - including biotechnology such as this - while the zerg can do little more than hurl their vast numbers against the borg. this is how and why the borg will adapt, and the zerg cannot

8. Unlike the Borg, the Zerg discarded weaker races, and only assimilated those who were powerful.
quite the opposite.

9. The number of Zerg are incredible. Even with incredible speeds, the borg only bring a few ships to bear in each conflict. However, the Zerg are in such numbers that numerating them might as well be impossible.
it'd be impossible to count the zerg because their numbers are vast indeed. but the borg do also hold - and have assimilated all the worlds in - almost a full quarter of the galaxy. assuming most planets have a similar population to earth (as thats the only possible measure to go on), at 6 billion drones per planet, thats a shitload of drones on tens of thousands of cubes (that latter part was said somewhere in voyager i think)



and another thing: the borg have transwarp capabilities. what do the zerg have? i think the borg would run circles round the zerg in speed terms and being able to effectively respond and adapt to new tactical and stategic situations

I'd kind of have to put my money down on the Borg for this one...

Why?

Because, contrary to one poster, the Borg assimilate only those characteristics species that are good to inherit. Remember, the Borg build their own babies (ie iron-womb, etc). These babies have all of the genetic characteristics of the best genes availible to the Borg.

This being said, the Borg are well... Cyborgs. They incorporate the best of both Technology and Genetics while the Zerg only encompass the best of Genetics. This being said, were one zerg (say a zergling or hydralisk) assimilated and returned to the collective, the Borg would then immediatly incorporate this new genetic material into their breeding schemes.

You'd then have big bugs versus big huge naturally armored carapaced techonology carapaced 'Resistance is futile' humanoid style bugs... and I think the big huge naturally armored carapaced techonology carapaced 'Resistance is futile' humanoid style bugs would win.

If you have played WH40k, imagine a true Genestealer and then just put him in Space Marine Power Armor, give him a rosarius, and there you have it.

My only problem with this idea is that, ultimatley, we have no idea just which "brain" will be controlling an assimilated Zerg, or a new Borg that incorporates Zerg genetics.

It's important to remember that a single Zerg (a Drone for example) is not, in and of itself, sentient. It relys entirely on the Overmind and it's chain of controlling entities (Cerebrates, Overlords) to function.

Would the Borg be able to exert the same kind of control over a non-sentient creature as they do a sentient one? Especially with a hive-mind mentality that rivals their own that controls that non-sentient creature?

I could very easily picture the Borg "assimilating" a Zergling, only to have the very concept blow up in their faces when the Zergling still obeys the Overmind.

On the whole, however, I'll take the Zerg. The Terrans and Protoss of the Starcraft Universe would wipe the floor with any race of the Star Trek Universe, and the Borg have had plenty of problems with the other denizens of their galaxy. The Zerg, on the other hand, handily defeated the Confederacy, the UED, AND the Protoss.

Zerg wins. All hail the Overmind! :p

Zerg >>> Borg

But, I am completely ignorant of Star Trek. I still stay with Zerg. They pwn.

Are we talking post-overmind Zerg?
Because Kerrigan would be able to find a way to double cross their asses.

I have to agree with you there. If anyone could beat the borg, Kerri could do it.

Live for the Swarm!

I've never understood how the Zerg manage to travel through space, let alone go at the faster-than-light speeds needed in order to infest new worlds. Mutalists travel by flapping their wings! I need hardly explain to you that such a method could not work in space.

Now, don't get me wrong I don't understand how a Borg starship's "transpace" technology works either, but it seems far more plausible to me then an organism physically travelling across the stars.

Therefore, I vote Borg.

PS: Tyranids beat both, they travelled from an entirely different galaxy to the Milky Way and have devoured everything in their path. ;)

PS: Tyranids beat both, they travelled from an entirely different galaxy to the Milky Way and have devoured everything in their path. ;)

Thats only becasue the orks don't have the brain boyz to unite them any more.
God i'm showing my age an geekiness by revisitng that old chestnut. BAh, darn you GW for your new shiny Tau necrons and ramblings of wars in heaven!


Anyway i say zerg becuase everything trekie is just weak rubbish compared to any other scifi universe bar btech....

Thats only becasue the orks don't have the brain boyz to unite them any more.
God i'm showing my age an geekiness by revisitng that old chestnut. BAh, darn you GW for your new shiny Tau necrons and ramblings of wars in heaven!


Anyway i say zerg becuase everything trekie is just weak rubbish compared to any other scifi universe bar btech....

Here's one for you: The C'tan gods, Chaos Undivided, the Emperor at his zenith and Old Ones (if I missed out any other Wh40k gods, forgive me ;) ) versus the Q-Continuum. Who wins?

I vote Wh40k gods. They have one crucial advantage: coolness.

Here's one for you: The C'tan gods, Chaos Undivided, the Emperor at his zenith and Old Ones (if I missed out any other Wh40k gods, forgive me ;) ) versus the Q-Continuum. Who wins?

I vote Wh40k gods. They have one crucial advantage: coolness.

La la la , no such thigns as C'tan, old ones or anythign like that, only vague mentions of eldar gods, the squats are still with us! *cuddles his land train and colussus*

Actually who needs of them, Mork and Gork would kick the Q's behinds without breaking a sweat and be rather funny while doing it (yes i am a closet Ork player who yearns for the old days of the Funny ork army with all its sheer randomness).

La la la , no such thigns as C'tan, old ones or anythign like that, only vague mentions of eldar gods, the squats are still with us! *cuddles his land train and colussus*

Nothing like a good old Tyranid swarm to ruin a squat's day. ;)

The Borg is highly resourceful, able to adapt to virtually anything. They have the numbers as well, and they won't give up until assimilation is complete.

The Borg would win.

Kerrigan would kill the Borg Queen and take over the Collective; then she'd unite the two species and go on to conquer the Multiverse. Duh.

The Borg is highly resourceful, able to adapt to virtually anything. They have the numbers as well, and they won't give up until assimilation is complete.

The Borg would win.

The ironic thing is the zerg are basically the same thing. This fight is almost putting borg v borg/zerg v zerg. They both can adapt at frightning speeds, have huge numbers, and are generally things that you don't want to be fighting.

They both end getting beaten by the Cybermen

you know the zerg's physical (1-on-1) attacks are similar to that of species 8472... and the borg managed to fight them for quite some time without losing (and eventually won... with the help of captain janeway of course)

I wonder if the Borg might be able to discover a way to sever the telepathic link between the Overmind and it's various minions.

I suppose Cerebrates could still act independently, but Overlords sure couldn't, so if the Borg could block that communication, then they win.

Still, we don't know the reaction this might draw from the Overmind...perhaps it could adapt, perhaps not.

This is probably the hardest VS I've ever seen posted on here...:)

I wonder if the Borg might be able to discover a way to sever the telepathic link between the Overmind and it's various minions.
a good point. seeing how the borg have assimilated many species with biological telepathy, and use a form of technological telepathy themselves, i wouldn't be suprised if the borg could come up with some kind of blocker like that. i'm pretty damn sure they could if they were able to capture or assimilate a zerg and give it a good examination in this area

also interesting to wonder which 'link' is stonger: that of the overmind and its minions, or the hive mind and its drones...

This is probably the hardest VS I've ever seen posted on here...:)
lol indeed!

exactly - the borg adapt. they adapt at everything you can possibly throw at them, so the only way to win against them is to outsmart em... and i don't think the average zerg is going to do that.
though i may not agree with everything in your post, you're on the right lines there.

The Zerg also adapt against the species they are fightight. Also, a typical Zergling and other basic forces would definatly not be able to outsmart the Borg. But an Overmind might be able to.



this is how and why the borg will adapt, and the zerg cannot


Once again, the Zerg can adapt at rapid speeds too.

And if the overlords and overmind and Kerrigan truly perish for good it wont stop the zerg. In fact it will give them a new oppurtunity to receive a personality of sorts and thus be able to develop new things like living armor (Powerful alloys melded with zerg bodies to improve in density and strengh as it grows stronger).

This has become quite a popular thread :)

I think some people are failing to realise that both the Borg and the Zerg have the adaptability, etc. As for how Zerg travel long distances, I think that some of them must have the capability to generate wormholes or something (it certainly looked like that in one of the StarCraft cinematics).

One point about the Zerg:
If Data could defeat a drone by twisting its neck, and Picard could defeat a couple using a machine gun, think what a fully upgraded Zergling could do (after all, they can take quite a few hits from a gauss gun, and regenerate quickly).