NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's consider this scenario.

A just born baby dies due to some illness.

What happens to the soul of the baby?

Does it go to heaven/jannat because the baby is sinless/masoom?

If yes, then why does the baby's soul deserve such a reward when it has done nothing to deserve it?

If everything is God's will, then what is the purpose of the baby taking birth?

Why cannot a soul enter a body again, when it can enter it once?

The questions are primarily to theists/believers in God/Supreme soul/Godhead. Atheists can argue from a theists POV but please don't make this a theism Vs athiesm or worse ..into a creation ID Vs evolution thing.

And theists, please no "Lord works in mysterious ways" stuff either ;)

Let's consider this scenario.

A just born baby dies due to some illness.

What happens to the soul of the baby?


That would depend on his parents. From a Christian perspective, the baby never reached the age of accountability, therefore it is through his parents that he will be saved or not.


Does it go to heaven/jannat because the baby is sinless/masoom?


Humans are born sinful.


If everything is God's will, then what is the purpose of the baby taking birth?


First of all, there is a slight misconception here. When you say "everything is God's will" this isnt exactly true. It is God's will in the sense that he is willing to allow it to happen, but it may not be what he preffered to have happened. For example, if I decide to grab my gun and go on a killing rampage, I will only be successful if God allows me to, therefore it can be considered to be in his will, but chances are that he wouldve preffered I hadnt done that. It is important to understand that.

Now, on to the real question. There is no answer to this because there could be many reasons why God allowed it to happen and in each case you would find a different reason. There is no universal reason, there can be many reasons. In some cases, God may have allowed that to happen (or even caused it) because he wanted to bring the child's parents into the fold and he knew that such a traumatic event was what was required for them to seek him out. Perhaps he allows it to happen in other cases so that the parents will be prepared to help others who lose children. Perhaps he allows it to happen because he wants to spare the child a terrible life that awaited him/her. Perhaps he allows it to happen because he wants the parents to face the consequences of their actions (in cases where the parents were drug addicts and this caused the child's death for example). There are as many possible reasons as there are different life stories.


Why cannot a soul enter a body again, when it can enter it once?


The idea that a human being is an embodied soul is a newer concept to Christianity. According to traditional Jewish and Christian beliefs, a human being is not an embodied soul (a soul that inhabits a body), but rather a human being is an animated body (a body kept alive by a soul). You cant enter another body because you ARE your body. Your body is just as much a part of who you are as your soul. If your soul was to enter another body, that person would not be you, they would be an entirely different person animated by the same life force that animated you. This is why the bible speaks of taking care of your body because it is the temple of the holy spirit. This is also why the bible speaks of the dead rising in the final judgement rather than just the souls. This is also why Jesus' body was gone from the grave when he resurrected. Also, when Elijah was taken to heaven (one of the few people spoken of in the bible who did not die), he was taken with his body and all. The idea that a human being is a soul that lives inside a body is a new idea and one alien to Christianity. Thus reincarnation is incompatible with Christianity because in biblical Christianity you ARE your body as much as you are your mind and your soul.

A just born baby dies due to some illness.

What happens to the soul of the baby? it goes to heaven

Does it go to heaven/jannat because the baby is sinless/masoom?no, it goes to heaven because the child has not reached the age of accountablility

If yes, then why does the baby's soul deserve such a reward when it has done nothing to deserve it?nobody deserves to go to heaven, that is why it is called Grace.

If everything is God's will, then what is the purpose of the baby taking birth? I don't pretend to understand God's will, I don't even understand why things happen to me sometimes, I just have faith that it will all work out in the end.

Why cannot a soul enter a body again, when it can enter it once?I don't know, I haven't really found any scriptural reference pertaining to re-incarnation so I don't believe it exists, I can't really see what the point of it would be.

what an odd question. one does not add a new theological tenet to ones faith because they decide its "logical"

either it is a part of ones belief or it isnt.

That would depend on his parents. From a Christian perspective, the baby never reached the age of accountability, therefore it is through his parents that he will be saved or not.

Does the sins of the parents affect the children?



First of all, there is a slight misconception here. When you say "everything is God's will" this isnt exactly true. It is God's will in the sense that he is willing to allow it to happen, but it may not be what he preffered to have happened.


The baby did not decide to die in its free will. If you are a theist, then it IS God's will that the baby died.


In some cases, God may have allowed that to happen (or even caused it) because he wanted to bring the child's parents into the fold and he knew that such a traumatic event was what was required for them to seek him out.


You are talking from the parent's POV.

What about the child's POV?


Perhaps he allows it to happen because he wants to spare the child a terrible life that awaited him/her.

Are there not people who lead "terrible life" ? Aren't everybody leading a "terrible life" ? Why the child has to be spared what I have to endure?

a human being is not an embodied soul (a soul that inhabits a body), but rather a human being is an animated body (a body kept alive by a soul).


Then why cannot animals have souls?

Correct me if I am wrong, but is that not Christianity's view?

You cant enter another body because you ARE your body.

So, do I die when my body dies?

Does the sins of the parents affect the children?
there are different denominations of Christianity that believe different things.
I do not agree with Lazy Hippies that the child would be 'saved' or 'not saved' depending on who thier parents are and what thier walk with God was like.

People are born with a sin nature, children are not sinless, but God is full of grace and in my belief would not send a baby or even a small child to hell because they aren't able to comprehend things like that yet.

Does the sins of the parents affect the children?


Some sins affect not only your children but your children's children for generations to come. This is a sound biblical principle.


The baby did not decide to die in its free will. If you are a theist, then it IS God's will that the baby died.


That depends. It is in God's will in the sense that he allowed it to happen. But it may or may not be in God's will in the sense that he preffered that things happen that way. I thought I explained this pretty clearly.


You are talking from the parent's POV.

What about the child's POV?

What about it?


Are there not people who lead "terrible life" ? Aren't everybody leading a "terrible life" ? Why the child has to be spared what I have to endure?


No, not everyone is leading a terrible life. God may want you to live a terrible life for a certain reason (again, there are as many reasons as there are life stories). He may not want someone else to live a terrible life for another reason.

You are asking questions that have many correct answers but are expecting to receive only one answer that fits all scenarios. That simply isn't going to happen. There isnt one answer, there are many answers which may be correct and it all depends on the individual circumstances. In mathematical terms, you are asking for a solution to a problem without providing every possible variable. What is x(y) + 32c - 14/u + 17c +52z - 3.16j + 42? The answer depends entirely on the values of x, y, c, u, and z.


Then why cannot animals have souls?

Correct me if I am wrong, but is that not Christianity's view?


No, it is not. There is no Christian view on whether animals have souls or not because different branches of Christianity disagree on the topic. However the bible provides for this in various places such as:

Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.


So, do I die when my body dies?

Yes, until Jesus returns and the dead rise again for the final judgement.

A just born baby dies due to some illness.

What happens to the soul of the baby?

It goes to Allah in Paradise where it is raised and then returned to the world, reborn, but with a little something extra. Mystics say that's where Prophets come from.

Does it go to heaven/jannat because the baby is sinless/masoom?

Yes. All except the truly evil go to Paradise. It is where we are all from.

If yes, then why does the baby's soul deserve such a reward when it has done nothing to deserve it?

Just by having a soul means you deserve it. What you do with that soul in this world is what takes away from it.

If everything is God's will, then what is the purpose of the baby taking birth?

That's not for us to know, though again, the Prophets ... etc etc.

Why cannot a soul enter a body again, when it can enter it once?

If Allah wills it, it can. Sorry, but that's the only answer I can give you.

It goes to Allah in Paradise where it is raised and then returned to the world, reborn, but with a little something extra. Mystics say that's where Prophets come from.

I thought Muhammad was supposed to be the last prophet god would send?

Let's consider this scenario.

A just born baby dies due to some illness.

What happens to the soul of the baby?

Does it go to heaven/jannat because the baby is sinless/masoom?

If yes, then why does the baby's soul deserve such a reward when it has done nothing to deserve it?

If everything is God's will, then what is the purpose of the baby taking birth?

Why cannot a soul enter a body again, when it can enter it once?

The questions are primarily to theists/believers in God/Supreme soul/Godhead. Atheists can argue from a theists POV but please don't make this a theism Vs athiesm or worse ..into a creation ID Vs evolution thing.

And theists, please no "Lord works in mysterious ways" stuff either ;)

I don't object to reincarnation; I simply just don't believe it.

"What happens to the soul of the baby?"

- Since I believe the soul is immortal, I believe it goes to the same place all other souls would go, either to heaven or hell. Though, I cannot absolutely say which; though I feel it enters heaven, returning to God.

"Does it go to heaven/jannat because the baby is sinless/masoom?"

- No man is sinless... not even the children. Though, in my belief, it is possible the child is covered by Christ's sacrifice and enteres heaven. But this is mere speculation.

"If yes, then why does the baby's soul deserve such a reward when it has done nothing to deserve it?"

- To me, as a christian; no one is deserving of heaven [salvation for that matter]. It's a grace (a free gift) and not a reward. So the question is pointless. Within my theological framework everyone is deserving of hell.

"If everything is God's will, then what is the purpose of the baby taking birth?

- You answered it yourself, it was God's will... The precise purpose (or purposes), however, I will not even try to fathom.

"Why cannot a soul enter a body again, when it can enter it once?"

- Why does a soul have to go back into a body; when it was already in one? It's just a rhetorical question.

I thought Muhammad was supposed to be the last prophet god would send?

When we say "last Prophet", we mean "most recent". It doesn't preclude others that may be sent in the future. We do not know the will of Allah. All we know is that when the message becomes corrupted by men, Allah sends a new Prophet to remind us of the message.

It goes to Allah in Paradise where it is raised and then returned to the world, reborn, but with a little something extra. Mystics say that's where Prophets come from.


Do you have any reference to any mainstream scholar?

Sufis ain't mainstream :p

Perhaps there is not an answer that can be logically measured by us. We tend to try and make things seem more logical, and albeit more believable, but that is all based upon society's views. Perhaps there is a different in the afterlife, and it could entirely different with entirely different reasons than what we believe may be right.

That depends. It is in God's will in the sense that he allowed it to happen. But it may or may not be in God's will in the sense that he preffered that things happen that way. I thought I explained this pretty clearly.

Please humor me. I have trouble understanding this point.

If indeed God is omnipotent, then how can stuff happen which God does not prefer? How can God not prefer a baby to die, but still allow it to happen?



Yes, until Jesus returns and the dead rise again for the final judgement.

What happens in the meantime?

Do you have any reference to any mainstream scholar?

Sufis ain't mainstream :p

There's no such thing as a mainstream Muslim scholar anymore. Since the dissolution of the Caliphate, any educated Muslim man becomes a leader - kinda like Jewish Rabbis.

There's no such thing as a mainstream Muslim scholar anymore. Since the dissolution of the Caliphate, any educated Muslim man becomes a leader - kinda like Jewish Rabbis.

Mainstream meaning among the recognised schools of ahlul bayt or ahle hadith schools of barelvi, deobandi, etc..

Please humor me. I have trouble understanding this point.

If indeed God is omnipotent, then how can stuff happen which God does not prefer? How can God not prefer a baby to die, but still allow it to happen?


Although God could be in control of everything, he chooses to let us have free will, and the way I understand it He doesn't really step in unless specifically asked to do so, and then sometimes you don't get what you asked for because God can see the big picture and we can't. I can't understand why God would let a baby die, unless it is part of a much larger more complicated plan that I can't even begin to understand, and that is what I have faith is true.

There are many things that happen that are not God's will, just because God lets it happen doesn't mean He wanted it to happen.

What happens in the meantime?

Broadway musicals. :p

Mainstream meaning among the recognised schools of ahlul bayt or ahle hadith schools of barelvi, deobandi, etc..

Ooooh ... nah. The Sufis are kinda seen like the Baha'i ... not too kindly looked upon in more orthodox Muslim circles.

I think, for what it is worth, that re-incarnation is a damn sight more probable than a spiritual entity such as heaven or hell.

Please humor me. I have trouble understanding this point.

If indeed God is omnipotent, then how can stuff happen which God does not prefer? How can God not prefer a baby to die, but still allow it to happen?

is it your belief that when a baby dies it was "god's" active will that the baby die?

is it your belief that when a baby dies it was "god's" active will that the baby die?

It is mine.

To OP:

I believe that Heaven is where souls naturally go, and that Hell is used as a punishment for the blatantly evil. To put it in simple terms, I think that unless you "screw up", you are sent to Heaven. So I believe that the baby would simply go to Heaven.

is it your belief that when a baby dies it was "god's" active will that the baby die?
Just curious: are you using "will" as synomymous with "want"? or by "active will" are you suggesting god willed the baby to death? Or something else?

is it your belief that when a baby dies it was "god's" active will that the baby die?

Karma. Not God's active will.

Just curious: are you using "will" as synomymous with "want"? or by "active will" are you suggesting god willed the baby to death? Or something else?
he was disputing the notion that god lets stuff happen without actively wanting it to. so im asking if he thinks that every dead baby is a result of the express will of "god".

Karma. Not God's active will.
Are you using Karma as synonymous with Fate? suggesting it caused the baby's death? Or something else?

Karma. Not God's active will.

and that is exactly my problem with reincarnation. we are punished for things we never did. over and over again through as many lifetimes as it might take to shake off the curse of karma.

no thanks.

Are you using Karma as synonymous with Fate? suggesting it caused the baby's death? Or something else?

Dude, I'm tellin' ya ... that baby had it comin'!