NationStates Jolt Archive

I’m a big fan of body modifications: tattoos, piercings, branding, scarification, implants, you name it, but some people are grossed out by them.

What do you think about it?

Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?

Why is the guy with an eyebrow ring considered less professional then the guy without?

What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)

If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?

What's worse, a person with a whole lot of facial piercings or a person with really bad BO?

Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.

Just give me you general thoughts on these issues.

The Liberated Ones']I’m a big fan of body modifications: tattoos, piercings, branding, scarification, implants, you name it, but some people are grossed out by them.

What do you think about it?

Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?

Why is the guy with an eyebrow ring considered less professional then the guy without?

What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)

If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?

What's worse, a person with a whole lot of facial piercings or a person with really bad BO?

Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.

Just give me you general thoughts on these issues.


Call me when you do your own subincision without anesthetic, and use only a dirty razor blade, and web cam the whole thing on the Internet.

Oh, and don't expect me to pay for any subsequent medical attention you might need - showing up at the emergency room and expecting the public to pay for a mistake like that is inane.

People who do extreme body mod need to understand that the public should not be responsible for helping them in any way if they screw up.

So, if you nick an artery while splitting your penis, and you don't have insurance, and you don't have any money, I'm all for letting you bleed to death for being deliberately stupid.

of course you should do as you please. however, with the more edgy things, you may be shutting yourself out of certain jobs. even something as mild as a man with pierced ears can disqualify him from being hired by extremely conservative employers

even a tattoo that is impossible to see while wearing business clothing can backfire on you if you socialize with colleagues after work. one trip to the lockerroom after a tough company basketball game and everyone knows the name of your first love.

the more extreme things you mention are, to my mind, foolish but should always be up to the person and whoever is going to perform the modification. full disclosure by the practioner is essential as these things shouldnt be done lightly or as a "fashion statement"

Call me when you do your own subincision without anesthetic, and use only a dirty razor blade, and web cam the whole thing on the Internet.

Oh, and don't expect me to pay for any subsequent medical attention you might need - showing up at the emergency room and expecting the public to pay for a mistake like that is inane.

People who do extreme body mod need to understand that the public should not be responsible for helping them in any way if they screw up.

So, if you nick an artery while splitting your penis, and you don't have insurance, and you don't have any money, I'm all for letting you bleed to death for being deliberately stupid.Cool. I can relate to the attitude.

But people being idiotic in their body modification techniques wasn't really the point of this thread.

How do you feel about people who get their extreme mods done in safe situations (or at least as safe as they legally can)?

And what about people who do have insurance?

The Liberated Ones']Cool. I can relate to the attitude.

But people being idiotic in their body modification techniques wasn't really the point of this thread.

How do you feel about people who get their extreme mods done in safe situations (or at least as safe as they legally can)?

And what about people who do have insurance?

If insurance covers deliberate accidents, fine. If it doesn't, have cash ready.

I don't care what people do to themselves - I just don't want to pay for it.

Especially if they change their mind and say, "oh, I want my penis restored."

Sorry, I'm not paying for it.

You can do what you like to your own body - I would welcome more 'body modifiers' seeking to continually push the envelope and ending up decapitating themselves.


However, you can't whinge about then being excluded from society in some respects. It's your choice so don't even think about calling it discrimination.

of course you should do as you please. however, with the more edgy things, you may be shutting yourself out of certain jobs. even something as mild as a man with pierced ears can disqualify him from being hired by extremely conservative employersI agree 100%. These things will ruin you career in any sort of conservative arena. I have a couple of friends who are lawyers and they both have to be extremely careful to cover up the holes from their facial piercings with make-up.

But do you think this kind of discrimination is reasonable? Should these smart, hard working, professional girls have to cover up that they like to wear a little jewelry in their faces?

the more extreme things you mention are, to my mind, foolish but should always be up to the person and whoever is going to perform the modification. full disclosure by the practioner is essential as these things shouldnt be done lightly or as a "fashion statement"Why do you think they are foolish? Because they are permanent? Because they are so uncommon?

I also think it must be very rare for someone to go through the cost, pain, and social isolation of these kind of modifications purely for "fashion statement".

The Liberated Ones']But do you think this kind of discrimination is reasonable? Should these smart, hard working, professional girls have to cover up that they like to wear a little jewelry in their faces?

While I might not care, my clients might, and my sales might suffer. I can't sue clients for not buying my products because my sales staff looks like science fiction versions of the Matabele tribe.

On a smaller scale, if you drop your trousers, and the girl you just met sees that your penis looks like a split hot dog and she barfs and runs out of your apartment, don't you think that sort of discrimination is reasonable?

You can do what you like to your own body - I would welcome more 'body modifiers' seeking to continually push the envelope and ending up decapitating themselves.Why the hostility?

What about me doing weird things to my body makes you wish people would start killing themselves?

(I know that wasn’t literally what you meant, but that is not a pleasant thing to say regardless).

However, you can't whinge about then being excluded from society in some respects. It's your choice so don't even think about calling it discrimination.Sure, it’s their own choice and people need to be aware of the consequences of their actions, but they aren’t the ones acting hostile towards people who’s only crime is deciding to look weird.

So in my case I am aware that people may treat me badly for being modified, I’m prepared to take that risk. BUT, they are the ones who make the choice to treat me badly, not me.

I don't care what people do to themselves - I just don't want to pay for it.Does this mean that the only thing you’re concerned about is whether it will cost you money? If so, cool, I see no reason why you should have to pay for someone’s mods any more then I should have to pay for you gym membership.

What do you think of people who get modified and don’t expect or need a cent from you?




(Just in case you guys miss-read my tone, I am not whining nor am I upset by your posts, I’m just curious about your thoughts)

The Liberated Ones']What do you think of people who get modified and don’t expect or need a cent from you?

Most mods I could care less about. I don't believe, however, that there's much of a case for forcing me to put someone heavily modded out in front of my sales force (unless I'm running a body modding clinic).

However, my wife and I were at a swing club, and we saw a man who whipped out what was left of his subincision. Several people involuntarily vomited on the spot, and that was my reaction as well.

So, for the really gross mods, I don't want to see them, either.

The Liberated Ones']I agree 100%. These things will ruin you career in any sort of conservative arena. I have a couple of friends who are lawyers and they both have to be extremely careful to cover up the holes from their facial piercings with make-up.

But do you think this kind of discrimination is reasonable? Should these smart, hard working, professional girls have to cover up that they like to wear a little jewelry in their faces?

in conservative fields where your face is exposed to the public (like lawyers) i think it is reasonable for an employer to take any (legal) thing into consideration when they hire or promote you.

in less conservative fields i think it is silly for an employer to discriminate against the less "freaky" looking people. piercings and tattoos have become fairly mainstream and most customers can deal with someone havnig a few holes in their face.


Why do you think they are foolish? Because they are permanent? Because they are so uncommon?

I also think it must be very rare for someone to go through the cost, pain, and social isolation of these kind of modifications purely for "fashion statement".
i think they are foolish because they are unnecessary, often dangerous, and may produce unintended results.

while i almost agree with you on the fashion statement thing, i can see no other reason to the "lizard man" thing besides it being the coolest thing you can imagine. tattoos, piercings, and genital modifications are not necessary so why DO them at all? why else but because you think its cool? (some people DO get "addicted" to piercings but thats a psychological problem now isnt it?)

i dont know why a man would split his penis. i assume its part of the search for the ultimate orgasm. but if it doesnt improve the experience, and you cant know if it will until you get it done, then what do you do? im my book, that makes it foolish.

However, my wife and I were at a swing club, and we saw a man who whipped out what was left of his subincision. Several people involuntarily vomited on the spot, and that was my reaction as well.

did he get any takers? are there women who are fascinated with men with such modifications?

did he get any takers? are there women who are fascinated with men with such modifications?

A few women and men were curious to examine it. But no one wanted to really touch it and give him any gratification.

I suppose he might have had better luck in a crowd of heavily modded people. As it was, at least six people vomited just looking at it.

The Liberated Ones']I’m a big fan of body modifications: tattoos, piercings, branding, scarification, implants, you name it, but some people are grossed out by them.

What do you think about it?

Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?

Why is the guy with an eyebrow ring considered less professional then the guy without?

What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)

If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?

What's worse, a person with a whole lot of facial piercings or a person with really bad BO?

Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.

Just give me you general thoughts on these issues.


They should be allowed to do as they please

They should NOT however be sheltered from the consequences of their freely chosen actions

And any medical issues issues also arising from these modifications should not be covered by public money

While I might not care, my clients might, and my sales might suffer. I can't sue clients for not buying my products because my sales staff looks like science fiction versions of the Matabele tribe.It is a tough one. But it really does seem that the only problem comes from people reacting badly to something because it’s unusual.

Is it really any different then one of you staff members wearing a turban, pentagram or cross?

Using that justification is it also okay to only hire very attractive people, because the bottom line is that you clients will appreciate that?

On a smaller scale, if you drop your trousers, and the girl you just met sees that your penis looks like a split hot dog and she barfs and runs out of your apartment, don't you think that sort of discrimination is reasonable?Well it’s her right to not sleep with someone. It's perfectly acceptable to not sleep with someone who through no fault of their own is just not attractive. So it's certainly alright to not touch someone because you don't like their mods.

In this situation it might have been in the guys best interest to warn her before giving her a Crying Game moment.

That way she can say "Umm, I really don’t think I’d be comfortable with that..." and they can both go their separate ways without horror, rejection and puking. There are some people out there who are majorly turned off by the wrong sort of underwear.

The Liberated Ones']It is a tough one. But it really does seem that the only problem comes from people reacting badly to something because it’s unusual.

Is it really any different then one of you staff members wearing a turban, pentagram or cross?

Using that justification is it also okay to only hire very attractive people, because the bottom line is that you clients will appreciate that?

Yes, and that's the way it usually works. Not that you "officially" write that down as the reason you hire them.

It's also why there are corporate dress codes, and why sales staff usually follow them better than the rest of the employees. They want to sell so they can get paid.

If I hire you on commission, then if you dress in a way that stifles your sales, I won't have to fire you - you'll get tired of working for no money.

If you want to do strange things to your body, go ahead as long as I'm not affected. That's my view.

However, my wife and I were at a swing club, and we saw a man who whipped out what was left of his subincision. Several people involuntarily vomited on the spot, and that was my reaction as well.Was it fresh? Was it all skanky and infected? Maybe I’m seriously desensitized but six people puking sounds like an overreaction to weird looking cock.

I guess that guy should have been looking up body-mod or BDSM swinger’s parties.

Or maybe he was the kind of asshole who gets off on grossing out people...

in conservative fields where your face is exposed to the public (like lawyers) i think it is reasonable for an employer to take any (legal) thing into consideration when they hire or promote you.I’m not disputing that it is both legal and economically sensible to discriminate based on body mods.

But I don’t think legality and economics are the ultimate arbiters of ethics.

I may be necessary to discriminate, but is it really a good thing? In a perfect world should it be okay?

Maybe it is? Maybe if people learn that there are serious social consequences to being abnormal, they will learn to suppress any urge that would take them too far away from the accepted norms... I don’t think so, but then I wouldn’t, would I? :)

while i almost agree with you on the fashion statement thing, i can see no other reason to the "lizard man" thing besides it being the coolest thing you can imagine. tattoos, piercings, and genital modifications are not necessary so why DO them at all? why else but because you think its cool? (some people DO get "addicted" to piercings but thats a psychological problem now isnt it?)Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, it’s fun. Yeah, I find it attractive. Is it unnecessary? I guess so.

But is having nice clothes aside from what you need for work necessary? Is going out for romantic dinners necessary? Is having gold and silver jewelry necessary? Is seeing movies necessary? Is having sex outside procreation necessary?

How about: mountain climbing; trail bike riding; scuba diving; sex with new people. These things are all unnecessary and have potential dangers attached to them.

Surely people could live without all these things, but why should they?

Personally, I really enjoy both the sensation of my mods and the look of them. I have made changes to my body, and I like it better for it. My body is my temple and I've had it renovated and modernized.

As for addiction... I guess it can be. But do you think people shouldn't ever drink alcohol? Alcohol can very addictive and I think a lot more insidiously destructive then a piercing addiction.

The Liberated Ones']Was it fresh? Was it all skanky and infected? Maybe I’m seriously desensitized but six people puking sounds like an overreaction to weird looking cock.

It had healed up, but it looked like chewed hamburger on the underside, and bore no real resemblance to a cock. You had to use your imagination to "reassemble" it in your mind.

Now they have a rule. If you have a body mod that is definitely gross, you're permanently banned.

The Liberated Ones']

I’m not disputing that it is both legal and economically sensible to discriminate based on body mods.

But I don’t think legality and economics are the ultimate arbiters of ethics.

I may be necessary to discriminate, but is it really a good thing? In a perfect world should it be okay?

in a PERFECT world, it would be ok to discriminate even against those situations where it is illegal to discriminate now. why? because my discrimination would have no effect on them in a perfect world.


Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, it’s fun. Yeah, I find it attractive. Is it unnecessary? I guess so.

But is having nice clothes aside from what you need for work necessary? Is going out for romantic dinners necessary? Is having gold and silver jewelry necessary? Is seeing movies necessary? Is having sex outside procreation necessary?

How about: mountain climbing; trail bike riding; scuba diving; sex with new people. These things are all unnecessary and have potential dangers attached to them.

Surely people could live without all these things, but why should they?

Personally, I really enjoy both the sensation of my mods and the look of them. I have made changes to my body, and I like it better for it. My body is my temple and I've had it renovated and modernized.

As for addiction... I guess it can be. But do you think people shouldn't ever drink alcohol? Alcohol can very addictive and I think a lot more insidiously destructive then a piercing addiction.
now my point was in response to you suggesting that no one would do an extreme procedure just for a "fashion statement". for most people that its the ONLY reason to do some of these things. they do it because its cool.

i only find the "because its cool" excuse to be foolish in extreme circumstances. AND i find "wanting to look like barbie" just as foolish as "becoming lizard man" the freakishness of it isnt really the point. the permanence, risk, and extreme nature of it, makes it foolish.

if alcohol becomes an addiction, id recommend you get treatment for it rather than indulging in more and more extreme drinking.

Are we talking self harm here?

It had healed up, but it looked like chewed hamburger on the underside, and bore no real resemblance to a cock. You had to use your imagination to "reassemble" it in your mind.

Now they have a rule. If you have a body mod that is definitely gross, you're permanently banned.Wacky. I wonder if he could even get it up?

So how strict are their rules? What constitutes gross? How about more 'normal' genital piercings? (I'd guess that as a swinger, you would've seen a few of them).

A friend of mine had a guy freak out and not want to be near her when he saw that she had both her nipples pierced. (And these were normal dainty nipple rings, not streached out to 2 gauge or anything).

Are we talking self harm here?

No, I think it's more "mutilating to modify" rather than "mutilating to self harm".

The Liberated Ones']Wacky. I wonder if he could even get it up?

So how strict are their rules? What constitutes gross? How about more 'normal' genital piercings? (I'd guess that as a swinger, you would've seen a few of them).

A friend of mine had a guy freak out and not want to be near her when he saw that she had both her nipples pierced. (And these were normal dainty nipple rings, not streached out to 2 gauge or anything).

If most people complain, or if it causes someone to vomit, that's the limit.

I think they already draw the line at "no subincision" or similar mutilations.

The Liberated Ones']Sure, it’s their own choice and people need to be aware of the consequences of their actions, but they aren’t the ones acting hostile towards people who’s only crime is deciding to look weird.

So in my case I am aware that people may treat me badly for being modified, I’m prepared to take that risk. BUT, they are the ones who make the choice to treat me badly, not me.
No, it was your choice. You started shoving bits of metal into yourself to get a reaction, right? Well guess what genii, (plural of genius) you all just got your reactions because no one wants to hire you for intellectually tasking work. And don't think that anyone is going to take you seriously on the discriminatio issue because, unlike women, blacks, or gays, you chose to do that. You started out in one way, and decided to flee he mainstream by stuffing metal through your nose, so you can hardly be surprised when the mainstream flees you.
Now, if you can cover all signs of the peircing and such, then no one should care, but most people don't want to look at it, ever how ignorant that may seem.
That said, however, I will point out that it is your body, and provided that you pay for it exculisively out of your own pocket and you keep your split penis in your pants when I'm around, then I don't care.

If you want to do strange things to your body, go ahead as long as I'm not affected. That's my view.
Mine too. I can't be bothered to go into any detail right now.

I personally don't have a problem with tattoos, piercings, and all that crap. However, many people don't want their food served by a guy who's face looks like a pin cushion, and many others won't take a stockbroker very seriously if he has a tatoo running across his forehead, so before getting such extreme modifications you should really give some thought to whether or not they'll interfere with your future plans.

I personally don't have a problem with tattoos, piercings, and all that crap. However, many people don't want their food served by a guy who's face looks like a pin cushion, and many others won't take a stockbroker very seriously if he has a tatoo running across his forehead, so before getting such extreme modifications you should really give some thought to whether or not they'll interfere with your future plans.
Exactly its freedom of choice not freedom from consequences

The Liberated Ones']Why the hostility?

What about me doing weird things to my body makes you wish people would start killing themselves?

(I know that wasn’t literally what you meant, but that is not a pleasant thing to say regardless).

Sure, it’s their own choice and people need to be aware of the consequences of their actions, but they aren’t the ones acting hostile towards people who’s only crime is deciding to look weird.

So in my case I am aware that people may treat me badly for being modified, I’m prepared to take that risk. BUT, they are the ones who make the choice to treat me badly, not me.

Does this mean that the only thing you’re concerned about is whether it will cost you money? If so, cool, I see no reason why you should have to pay for someone’s mods any more then I should have to pay for you gym membership.

What do you think of people who get modified and don’t expect or need a cent from you?




(Just in case you guys miss-read my tone, I am not whining nor am I upset by your posts, I’m just curious about your thoughts)



Yes that was a joke - that said, I do personally find tattoos a bit pathetic and piercings ugly. 'Mods' as a rule are, I believe, essentially fairly boring people who seem to confuse 'looking interesting' with 'being interesting' . On that level they're no better than fashion victims and all other sorts of people who value appearance above everything else. Hence, my slightly caustic remark.


People should also remember that they don't live in a vacuum and they can't expect to be treated ' like everyone else' if they don't act 'like everyone else.

in a PERFECT world, it would be ok to discriminate even against those situations where it is illegal to discriminate now. why? because my discrimination would have no effect on them in a perfect world.Okay, maybe I didn't phrase that very well. :)

Do you think it is okay to discriminate against the modified aside from financial and legal justifications?

For example, you are hiring for a job where the employee won't have contact with your customers, both applicants have reasonable references and skills. One has 2 years experience and looks normal while the other has 2 and a half years of experience and looks like a freak. Which would you hire?

now my point was in response to you suggesting that no one would do an extreme procedure just for a "fashion statement". for most people that its the ONLY reason to do some of these things. they do it because its cool.

i only find the "because its cool" excuse to be foolish in extreme circumstances. AND i find "wanting to look like barbie" just as foolish as "becoming lizard man" the freakishness of it isnt really the point. the permanence, risk, and extreme nature of it, makes it foolish.Ahh, my bad, sorry.

I can see your point that it is a very extreme procedure to go through for vanity or fashion. However there is the attitude that people can be dissatisfied with what their body is like, and have an ideal they would like to change it to. I feel that as long as their reasons are healthy it's a good thing.

If someone has modified their body to please someone else then that's unhealthy. Or if they are modifying themselves to scare or horrify people then that's unhealthy. If they have considered deeply, and are certain they can deal with the consequences, and they deeply want to be a lizard person, then good luck to them.

No, it was your choice. You started shoving bits of metal into yourself to get a reaction, right? Well guess what genii, (plural of genius) you all just got your reactions because no one wants to hire you for intellectually tasking work. And don't think that anyone is going to take you seriously on the discriminatio issue because, unlike women, blacks, or gays, you chose to do that. You started out in one way, and decided to flee he mainstream by stuffing metal through your nose, so you can hardly be surprised when the mainstream flees you.
Now, if you can cover all signs of the peircing and such, then no one should care, but most people don't want to look at it, ever how ignorant that may seem.
That said, however, I will point out that it is your body, and provided that you pay for it exculisively out of your own pocket and you keep your split penis in your pants when I'm around, then I don't care.My, my, aren't you the obnoxious one.

So I'm "Asking for it", am I?

For starters I didn't shove bits of metal through myself to "get a reaction", I did it because I enjoy it and I like the way it makes me look.

And for your information I have a reasonable job; I'm a Web Developer at a major university. I may not be a CEO or a lawyer, but I certainly don't have any serious money problems.

Yes. I chose not be completely mainstream, which means I also chose to deal with any fallout I get, but it is still your choice if you want to treat me differently because I have some weird earrings. It's my problem, but I refuse to meekly say you are justified in miss-treating someone just because you disapprove of their fashion or forms of personal self-expression.

Do your attitudes to how the non-mainstream gets treated extend to religious garb? What if I was a Sikh who wore a turban? That would be my choice surely.

Should people with body mods be discriminated against? No. Are they going to be? Yes. Is there anything you can do about it? Not a thing.

The fact is, people judge a lot about other people by first impressions, and the first thing you usually look at when you see a new person is their face. Depending on your particular tastes, you might react favourably to someone with a lot of mods, you might react unfavourably, or you might be pretty indifferent.

Unfortunately, most people will react unfavourably, and this is sometimes what people who go in for a lot of facial jewelry or obvious body mods are aiming for. Even if it's not, it's still a conscious decision being made to have the stuff done, so you have to be prepared to accept the consequences of your choice. I think its pretty reasonable to be leery of having a salesman with lots of obvious piercings or tattoos, simply because it will affect their performance as a salesman, because most people won't react well to it. For jobs where they won't really be having a great deal of contact with the public/customers, I think it's pretty stupid to discriminate on the bases of body mods, but I imagine many employers will do it anyway, and they are within their legal rights to do so (as far as I know.) With stuff that is hidden by everyday clothes, I see no reason why that is any of an employer's business (or, indeed, anyone else's, unless you choose to show it to them.)

Personally, I'm usually pretty indifferent to fairly mundane body mods, and curious about more extreme ones. Though there are some that I simply find very unappealing, like nose studs or rings that don't go through the centre, navel piercings (which I see many of, what with young women my age seemingly obsessing over exposing their midriff and parading around) and probably a few others I can't think of right at the moment.

I do find some attractive, though I have no desire to have any modification done to my body at the present time.

Oh, and the lizard man rocks. Hopefully one day I'll be able to have sex with someone like that, heh heh.

The Liberated Ones']My, my, aren't you the obnoxious one.
Yes, quite.
The Liberated Ones']So I'm "Asking for it", am I?
Lets look at it logically:
If I do A, then B will most likely happen.
I do A, B happens.
Is the Proper Response: ZOMGZ!!1!! T3H M4N I5 0PPR3551NG M3!1!1!
Or is it: Well, that sucks, but then I did do A.
The Liberated Ones']For starters I didn't shove bits of metal through myself to "get a reaction", I did it because I enjoy it and I like the way it makes me look.
(Emphasis mine) Hence, you wanted a reaction. There are three possible reasons to mutilate oneself:
A) Masochism (I like the pain)
B) Peircing Addiction (The feel of metal against my skin is posively orgasmic)
C) Appearance (This makes me look in a way that I desire others to see me)
You are quite definitely within the realm of C. You wanted other people to see you a certain way, and the only reason someone would want them to do that is so that they would then react a certain way. I'm not saying that it was because of shock value, maybe you think it makes you look cool or pretty or fabulous or whatever.
The Liberated Ones']And for your information I have a reasonable job; I'm a Web Developer at a major university. I may not be a CEO or a lawyer, but I certainly don't have any serious money problems.
Er, congratulations? What difference should this make, unless you are trying to guilt trip me for not sending you flowers on your promotion.
I didn't say that The Peirced should form a new Shudra caste in the U.S., merely that you can't be surprised when people stare at you, throw up, or don't hire you.
The Liberated Ones']Yes. I chose not be completely mainstream, which means I also chose to deal with any fallout I get, but it is still your choice if you want to treat me differently because I have some weird earrings. It's my problem, but I refuse to meekly say you are justified in miss-treating someone just because you disapprove of their fashion or forms of personal self-expression.
See my comment on logic, but also remember that if you are hired to meet important customers, you are hired in a large part because of your presentability. It ties back to the central flaw in Devil's Advocate if Keanu Reeves says that he will be defending me before a jury, I am going to run like Hell to get another lawyer. The same goes for someone who has split their tongue, covered themselves in tattoos to look like a lizard, or built a mask out of peircings.
The Liberated Ones']Do your attitudes to how the non-mainstream gets treated extend to religious garb? What if I was a Sikh who wore a turban? That would be my choice surely.
Ah, but it wouldn't. The Turban was commanded by your god. With rare exception, the genuinely religious don't shop around, they actually believe that the turban is rendered onto them by divine commandment.
So, if you join some religious sect that demands that you get nipple rings, go right on ahead and complain about prejudices, but until you are doing it for a reason that isn't purely cosmetic, quit'cher bitching.

Lets look at it logically:
If I do A, then B will most likely happen.
I do A, B happens.
Is the Proper Response: ZOMGZ!!1!! T3H M4N I5 0PPR3551NG M3!1!1!
Or is it: Well, that sucks, but then I did do A.Can't it be both?

I accept that I may be treated differently. I accept that there is a general negative attitude of society towards people with modifications. I accept that none of this is likely to change much any time soon.

That doesn't mean I have to like or respect attitudes that are based on stereotypes and fear of that which looks different.

(Emphasis mine) Hence, you wanted a reaction. There are three possible reasons to mutilate oneself:
A) Masochism (I like the pain)
B) Peircing Addiction (The feel of metal against my skin is posively orgasmic)
C) Appearance (This makes me look in a way that I desire others to see me)
You are quite definitely within the realm of C. You wanted other people to see you a certain way, and the only reason someone would want them to do that is so that they would then react a certain way. I'm not saying that it was because of shock value, maybe you think it makes you look cool or pretty or fabulous or whatever.You have a point, but I disagree.

While I would appreciate a positive reaction, the primary audience is my self. I got these things because I like them. Society (or at least the bit that affect me) is a concern, but a greater concern is that they make me happy.

Er, congratulations? What difference should this make, unless you are trying to guilt trip me for not sending you flowers on your promotion.
I didn't say that The Peirced should form a new Shudra caste in the U.S., merely that you can't be surprised when people stare at you, throw up, or don't hire you.I was responding to this comment:

Well guess what genii, (plural of genius) you all just got your reactions because no one wants to hire you for intellectually tasking work.I guess that was overly defensive of me.

Yes that was a joke - that said, I do personally find tattoos a bit pathetic and piercings ugly. 'Mods' as a rule are, I believe, essentially fairly boring people who seem to confuse 'looking interesting' with 'being interesting' . On that level they're no better than fashion victims and all other sorts of people who value appearance above everything else. Hence, my slightly caustic remark.Dude! Did you just call me an ugly, pathetic fashion victim? :)

I don't think it's a fair generalization to make, people are more then just their mods. (Well, some people are, others are just as bad as you describe).

I know the type you're talking about: "I used to like nipple rings, but now everyone has them, and they're not cool anymore." Wankers. Getting a nice haircut, or a dye job doesn't make you "obsessed with your hair" and getting a piercing doesn't make you a pathetic fashion victim.


Okay, I need to sleep now. I'll check for responses later...

The Liberated Ones'] Should people be allowed to mutilate themselves?

Absolutely.

The Liberated Ones'] I’m a big fan of body modifications: tattoos, piercings, branding, scarification, implants, you name it, but some people are grossed out by them. What do you think about it?

Personally, I wonder why you've under gone so many body mods. You say it's not for the reaction. OK fine, then why?

The Liberated Ones'] Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?

Absolutely. At least it's something real to discriminate against, unlike false race concepts. The fact that you voluntarily did it makes it even more acceptable.

The Liberated Ones'] Why is the guy with an eyebrow ring considered less professional then the guy without?

Because the guy without has shown foresight into the reactions of others.

The Liberated Ones'] What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)

Again, that persdon has shown forsesight towards how others react to his appearance. In fact, I'd say of the non-mod, obvious mod
, and hidden-mod; the hidden-mod will probably have the most respect from me.

The Liberated Ones'] If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?



The Liberated Ones'] What's worse, a person with a whole lot of facial piercings or a person with really bad BO?

The pierced one. If a person has serious BO, it's quite possibly a medical issue. But it's highly unlikely that a large number of facial piercings could be.

The Liberated Ones'] Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.

Again, absolutely. Just beaware of the consequences, and quit whining if people (including poterntial employers) react negatively. And if you find an employer who's OK with it, consider yourself lucky.

The Liberated Ones'] Just give me you general thoughts on these issues.

Personally, I tend to view them as personal freedom and responsibility issues. No one forced them on you, so don't try to force others to accept them.

The Liberated Ones']
Dude! Did you just call me an ugly, pathetic fashion victim? :)

I don't think it's a fair generalization to make, people are more then just their mods. (Well, some people are, others are just as bad as you describe).

I know the type you're talking about: "I used to like nipple rings, but now everyone has them, and they're not cool anymore." Wankers. Getting a nice haircut, or a dye job doesn't make you "obsessed with your hair" and getting a piercing doesn't make you a pathetic fashion victim.


Okay, I need to sleep now. I'll check for responses later...
to be fair, so is the 20 year old woman who pays $300 for her jeans because she saw tara reid wearing them on TV. especially if she gets her hair bleached blonde and has collagen injected into her lips so theyll look like angelina jolies lips.

when my son was in highschool he had to obey a rigid dress code of all black but not goth clothing with no logos on them. it didnt make any difference that he was in a clique of ONE, he was still victim to his own fashion rules.

The Liberated Ones']Okay, maybe I didn't phrase that very well. :)

Do you think it is okay to discriminate against the modified aside from financial and legal justifications?

For example, you are hiring for a job where the employee won't have contact with your customers, both applicants have reasonable references and skills. One has 2 years experience and looks normal while the other has 2 and a half years of experience and looks like a freak. Which would you hire?

in such a competitive business world it would be stupid of anyone to reject an excellent employee just for looking different.

besides i like freaky people.

The Liberated Ones']
What do you think about it?

My body, my choice. Don't pass laws on my body, etc etc.

The Liberated Ones']Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?

No.

The Liberated Ones']Why is the guy with an eyebrow ring considered less professional then the guy without?

Because people are retarded.

The Liberated Ones']What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)

See answer to first question.

The Liberated Ones']If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?

Everybody has the inalienable right to be a circus freak. I would fight for that right.

The Liberated Ones']What's worse, a person with a whole lot of facial piercings or a person with really bad BO?

Smelling good is important, but people have the right to stink, too.

The Liberated Ones']Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.

Yes, of course. It's their body. What they choose to do with it is none of my business.

The Liberated Ones']Just give me you general thoughts on these issues.

Ok.

Because the guy without has shown foresight into the reactions of others.


Anyone who gives one iota what others think would get eaten alive in the business world. Just ask Donald Trump.

Anyone who gives one iota what others think would get eaten alive in the business world. Just ask Donald Trump.
Bull. The idea is to use your image to manipulate what others think. The guy with the loony idea can get rich off of it, but only if the potential investors see him as a born winner. His image, clothing, haircut, body language, etc. must show him to be someone who can turn shit into gold. One gets that impression from guys like Trump, but not from people like this.
http://xo.typepad.com/blog/images/piercings.jpg

Wow, I would lose my erection so fast....

Let them do what they want, but when they turn up in casualty, don't expect me to pay for it. and i don't want them practising their.... things.... on anyone else either, whether the other person is willing or not, carry out your own deeds.

on anyone else either, whether the other person is willing or not, carry out your own deeds.
? they were talking about things like tatoo's

Are you proposing a ban on tatoo artists and or shops that pierce (anything such as ears)

? they were talking about things like tatoo's

Are you proposing a ban on tatoo artists and or shops that pierce (anything such as ears)

i thought mutilation was slitting your wrists... etc.

http://www.joy.it/gallery/albums/userpics/normal_many-piercings-l.jpg

http://breedband.telenet.be/cmimages/filmnieuws3/piercings.jpg

http://www.gonad.org/upload/images/pier1.jpg

Some of those people look like, "oh, I was hideous anyway, so what the fuck..."

Some of those people look like, "oh, I was hideous anyway, so what the fuck..."

LMAO!

You are so right, Sierra!

And those type piercings on a woman would keep me from getting an erection in the first place...yuck!

The Liberated Ones,

You have to admit discovering the guy you went home with has a Bisected Penis once your clothes are off can make a person react strongly.
Expecting someone to act as if it were an everyday thing isn't reasonable.
And comparing them to a guy wearing silk paisley boxers with an elephant head isn't the same thing. I believe everyone has a kink and westerners push the envelope a lot more then where these practices came from. I know of no tribe that does bi-section. While sub incision is done around the world I have found no tribe that goes to the extent westerns will.
While discrimination is wrong you can not blame people for reacting to what isn't the norm. When you do something extreme to yourself and people react you can't blame them. As long as the reacting person isn't verbal or physically abusive move on. Everyone has their Kink and your kink may not be my kink and that is okay as my friend Lady MJ says.

Regards

JMayo

The Liberated Ones']I’m a big fan of body modifications: tattoos, piercings, branding, scarification, implants, you name it, but some people are grossed out by them.

What do you think about it?

Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?

Why is the guy with an eyebrow ring considered less professional then the guy without?

What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)

If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?

What's worse, a person with a whole lot of facial piercings or a person with really bad BO?

Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.

Just give me you general thoughts on these issues.

I think it is your body and you should be allowed to do whatever you want to "modify" it.
as far as the 'less professional' thing, I live in a pretty conservative state, and there are people who will literally stop doing business somewhere that hires people with tats or peircings, I never understood why though. I don't have any tats or peircings and don't see myself getting any, but I don't see what is wrong with them either. (although some people go to far, like this guy I saw once with stupid tatooed on his forhead and a ham sandwich with a bite taken out of it on the side of his head, to be fair though, he was searching for a job with the circus, so I guess he thought it through beforehand)

I did have a lot of problems finding a job around here as a teen because my hair was blue,pink,turquois,black, green, red and orange, but there is a taco place where the people who are "creative" can work and a few other places have become more lax with thier policies.

If I ever do get my own office I will not discriminate against people based on their modifications, although I don't think I would want a person with stupid tattooed on their head representing my business......

What do you think about it?
It sickens me, but do what you want with your own body.
Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?
I don't know if its as much about "okay" as much as it is their right to do so.
What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)
If I can't see it I can't complain.
If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?
Do what you want with your body, but be prepared to deal with the consequences, or not, you’ll get them anyway.
Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.
Yes, but see above comment about consequences.

I've become desensitized to moderate amounts of piercing, tattoos, etc. because of the crowd I hang with. I actually find a couple piercings/tattoos to be quite attractive in members of the opposite sex. It's all a matter of taste.

While I find drastic changes disconcerting, I know that this reaction is not a thinking one.

As for discriminating in job hiring, the sad reality is that customers may be disgusted by piercings, tattoos, etc. However, I've never been in a position to hire anyone, so I don't know.

As for a warehouse grunt (like I was over the summer), it wouldn't make much difference.

As for wanting a split penis, or wanting to be a lizard.... I can't imagine why someone would want that for themselves, but people should be able to do what they want with their bodies.

The Liberated Ones']I’m a big fan of body modifications: tattoos, piercings, branding, scarification, implants, you name it, but some people are grossed out by them.

What do you think about it?

Do you think it's okay to discriminate against someone because they've done something weird to their body?

Why is the guy with an eyebrow ring considered less professional then the guy without?

What about people who have a whole host mods under their clothes? (I used to have 7 that you couldn’t see while I was dressed)

If you are okay with relatively acceptable mods like an eyebrow bar or an earring... does it make a difference if they have something weird like a facial tattoo or they have had themselves surgically altered to look like a lizard?

What's worse, a person with a whole lot of facial piercings or a person with really bad BO?

Should people even be allowed to make drastic changes to themselves? For example the lizard man, or removing your little fingers, or castrating yourself, or even splitting your penis.

Just give me you general thoughts on these issues.

People ought to be able to do whatever they want, but if it makes them horrifying enough to interfere with customers it might make sense for them to not be hired.

On the other hand, I've been looking to get a tatoo for a while, (have to wait until I don't depend on my parents for money though) and I think people can be amazingly small-minded about tatoos and peircings.

Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. Just don't expect society to treat you like a 'normal' human being if you go against what is generally accepted. People will discriminate. If you go to a job interview and have a bunch of piercings all over your face, expect to fall into whatever stereotype the interviewer has in mind, which is probably a negative one. If you can't accept being judged by how you appear, I suggest following the herd or living life as a hermit.

Anyone who gives one iota what others think would get eaten alive in the business world. Just ask Donald Trump.

Yes? So that's why the extreme examples posted above are all CEOs of Fortune 500 corporations? Is that why Trump has so many facial piercings?

Like any sort of rebellious fashion statement, the idea is to alienate everyone you do not want to associate with and attract the people that you do want to associate with. Nothing amazes me more than someone with a pink and purple mohawk, multiple body piercings, and studded leather jacket rebuking stares by yelling "what the @#$% are you looking at?"

I'm sure if they could make up their mind, then they would stop staring.