NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear gun nuts,

I've just stumbled upon a pretty damn surprising claim from the RIA Novosti (http://military-en.rian.ru/article.html?art_id=35266):

The AK101’s flat-trajectory range against a head-and-shoulders target is quite impressive, matching that of the longer-barreled M16A2 barrel (450 meters); the same can be said of its single-fire accuracy. Meanwhile, the Russian assault rifle outgunned its US equivalent in firing at a target with a bulletproof vest; this can be explained by the RS101 bullet’s improved design. The Russian weapon also delivers more effective automatic fire, particularly from unstable positions.
The AK101 is lighter than the M16A2, and it takes 0.5 seconds less to aim the weapon. In the meantime, both assault rifles have more or less the same combat rate of fire. However, the AK is much more dependable than any other assault rifle in the world. No one needs highly accurate but unreliable weapons. That’s why those who value their lives prefer the AKs.
Such weapons boast a substantial energy potential. The M16A2 and AK74 gas pistons are very different: The M16A2 piston has a much smaller diameter than that of the AK74, thus transmitting less energy. The M16A2 misfires time and again when filled with sand or soil; this is no good because automatic weapons are not a shooting-gallery attraction. But the AK gas piston’s far greater energy ensures the smooth operation of all of its parts even when they are seriously jammed. Peter Cocalis, a leading US firearms authority, told Soldier of Fortune magazine that he had once found a ruptured cartridge case inside the AKM barrel, but the rifle kept firing without respite. No other small firearm can fire with any objects inside.

Can anyone with REAL expertise in assault rifles comment on whether or not it sounds believable? Can the AK system be tuned up to achieve such high accuracy levels? Or is this purely a Russian self-advertising?

There is no gas piston in the M-16 series of weapons.

The M-16 family is much more reliable than the unreliable versions of the 1960s.

If you tune up an AK to get accuracy, you lose all the extra reliability - this is because you are making the parts fit tightly, and to closer tolerances. Close fitting parts means dirt can cause problems.

Gas piston weapons are not as accurate as non-gas piston weapons. With the new free float tubes on the M-16 series, and a heavier barrel, most M-16s are very accurate. Combine this with the fact that most are now used with either ACOG or EOTech sights, and they are even more accurate.

I've heard the claims about penetrating vests before. It's been debunked. There isn't an assault rifle on the market today that will penetrate the armor plate inserts on the current US vest.

There is no gas piston in the M-16 series of weapons.
Yes, that part sounded odd to me as well.


If you tune up an AK to get accuracy, you lose all the extra reliability - this is because you are making the parts fit tightly, and to closer tolerances. Close fitting parts means dirt can cause problems.
Only to a limit. An AK with tight tolerances will still have a significant edge over an M16 in reliability, even if simply because of the gas system nature.


Gas piston weapons are not as accurate as non-gas piston weapons.
Not sure about that. It's been said that the new AR180, for example, is on par with the AR15 series as far as accuracy goes. The British SA80, all other drawbacks notwithstanding, is believed by many to be the most accurate assault rifle today, and it's a gas piston AR 18 derivative.

Yes, that part sounded odd to me as well.

Only to a limit. An AK with tight tolerances will still have a significant edge over an M16 in reliability, even if simply because of the gas system nature.

Not sure about that. It's been said that the new AR180, for example, is on par with the AR15 series as far as accuracy goes. The British SA80, all other drawbacks notwithstanding, is believed by many to be the most accurate assault rifle today, and it's a gas piston AR 18 derivative.

Take a look at what rules the shooting line at CMP competition.

Other than carefully accurized M-14 series rifles, no gas piston weapon can be as consistent as the M-16 series. The M-16 series rules the shooting line.

I've seen many other assault rifles on the shooting line, and none comes close in terms of accuracy.

The typical M-16 as purchased as a civilian semi-automatic, with a free float handguard and a heavy barrel (a barrel no heavier than the one on the standard M-4 or M-16 today) will easily group into less than an inch at 100 yards - out of the box with no modifications.

For most gas piston weapons, you have to either buy a custom weapon that has been tweaked at the factory, or do the customizations yourself - and like the customized M-14 and M-1A rifles, you'll be doing a rebuild every 500 to 1000 rounds to keep it that accurate.

Take a look at what rules the shooting line at CMP competition.

Other than carefully accurized M-14 series rifles, no gas piston weapon can be as consistent as the M-16 series. The M-16 series rules the shooting line.

I've seen many other assault rifles on the shooting line, and none comes close in terms of accuracy.

The typical M-16 as purchased as a civilian semi-automatic, with a free float handguard and a heavy barrel (a barrel no heavier than the one on the standard M-4 or M-16 today) will easily group into less than an inch at 100 yards - out of the box with no modifications.

For most gas piston weapons, you have to either buy a custom weapon that has been tweaked at the factory, or do the customizations yourself - and like the customized M-14 and M-1A rifles, you'll be doing a rebuild every 500 to 1000 rounds to keep it that accurate.

Frankly, I am not sure how representative it is. The AR15s used in such competitions are, as a rule, also customized, and there are other factors in play- such as costs, limits on imports and so on. Now, I know from my own army service that a stock M16 is by far more accurate than a stock Galil, but there are some other excellent systems out there. The SIG rifles, I hear, are exceptionally accurate, but one could probably afford a really tricked out AR15 for the cost of a stock SIG.