NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1112442,00.html


Chinese workers in Israel sign no-sex contract

Conal Urquhart in Tel Aviv
Wednesday December 24, 2003
The Guardian

Chinese workers at a company in Israel have been forced to agree not to have sex with or marry Israelis as a condition of getting a job.

According to a contact they are required to sign, male workers may not have any contact with Israeli women - including prostitutes, a police spokesman, Rafi Yaffe, said.



Say...didn't Germany try that in 1935? Didn't work out well as I remember...

Ain't that a kick in the nuts.

That doesn't surprise me. The one Israeli I knew was racist... though not against the group you mentioned, but even still... racism is all the same; just takes a different form.

However, from what I knew from what he had said to me (despite being racist towards me, I did have to communicate with the assbag... Yes, I had to talk to him! A prof stuck us in the same group for 2 assignments), in Judiasm, in order for the child to be considered Jewish, the mother and not the father must be Jewish.

Seeing how Israel is a Jewish theocracy, and they have a need to preserve it, even if it is racist, it does make logical sense based on the nature of their religion. However, if they didn't force it the law in, the nature in their religion still dictates that a Jewish boy must marry a Jewish girl in order for his children to be Jewish.

If he doesn't, his children aren't Jewish. However, if the Jewish girl marries any other kind of boy, her children are still Jewish... Of course, that is not always a given if she converts and then bapstises her children in another religion.

You grammar good do.

wow that is weird what with most Israelis coming from Europe after WWII

But I guess history will repeat itself :(

wow that is weird what with most Israelis coming from Europe after WWII

But I guess history will repeat itself :(
And ironically by those who don't want the holocaust repeated... :rolleyes:

Ok, let's break this story down.

1) It's not the Israeli people, or the government that the Israeli people voted for that forced Chinese workers to sign this contract, it was one company. One may say that the company's racist, but to extend that to the Israeli people as a whole is a bigoted generalization in itself.

2) It's not legal under Israeli law. A person quoted in the interview said that the courts would throw this contract out if it's challenged.

3) It's from the Guardian, which is decidedly anti-Israel, and publishes tabloidesque stories about armed killer dolphins.

I noticed that in the interest of fair, balance, and unbiased news coverage the Guardian did not name the company or any of the individuals involved. Makes one wonder.

Drunk Commies got across what I was going to say, but stilll...

Read the damn article before you post a part of it out of context and slander an entire nation and possibly religion. If I said "all Europeans are anti-Semitic" and cited one of the numerous incidents of anti-Semitism in Europe, wouldn't people be screaming down my throat, and rightly so? Saying that there is racism in a particular society is fine. Saying the society is racist is a whole different ballpark.

I'm still debating whether this is something I should report or not. I probably won't, but regardless...Come on.

Seeing how Israel is a Jewish theocracy,...It's not a theocracy. It is a state for those of the Jewish Faith, but it isn't run exclusively by the "believers".

Exactly. It's democratic. Israel even has Arab Muslims in the Knesset.

Exactly. It's democratic. Israel even has Arab Muslims in the Knesset.

However, it's laws still do favor Jews.

However, it's laws still do favor Jews.
Because it's supposed to be the Jewish homeland. Still, you can't call them undemocratic or theocratic. Want to see a truly racist government with heavy theocratic overtones? Go visit Saudi Arabia. None but Muslims are allowed to practice their religion, foreign guest workers are often beaten, denied food, and held as virtual slaves, kids are imported from places like Bangladesh to be camel jockeys, kept underweight, and discarded as trash when they grow too big for the job.

However, it's laws still do favor Jews.Laws? What laws?
An Israeli lawyer who did not want to be named said while the contract might appear legal, it would be rejected if challenged in court.

Anti-Semitism lives! I say that because well, some misinformed individuals (say, the first 6 posters here) jumped on the "bash Israel bandwagon" a little too easily.

You grammar good do.
Kinda along the lines of AYB-style grammar, ain't it?

*Enter anarchocapitalism* :D
Well the Chinese weren't coerced into signing the contract, were they? It's a mutual agreement (albeit a racist one) between two parties.
*End anarchocapitalism* :D (and if you couldn't tell this was a joke)

And Serapindal, weren't you just banned for trolling like this?

Anti-Semitism lives! I say that because well, some misinformed individuals (say, the first 6 posters here) jumped on the "bash Israel bandwagon" a little too easily.

Oh christ...

When will people learn that criticising Israel is NOT criticising Judaism as a whole - some Jews don't even agree with the Israeli policies.

It's like me saying that Drunken Commies Deleted is a complete islamaphobe for criticising Saudi Arabia just because it's an islamic country.

And Serapindal, weren't you just banned for trolling like this?

So criticizing Israel is now "trolling."?

From what I've learned, all workers that come to Israel were at one time legal, under temorary visas of work. The 50% of illegal workers mentioned in the article are illegally overstaying their visas.

The fact that Israel allowed this tide of foreign workers in the fist place is a sign of something lacking in the nation's work ethic. Despite high uneployment, Israelis don't see fit to undertake jobs that have to get done, like cleaning and farming and whatnot. This is probably (in part) due to a very generous and ill-applied social security safetynet that essentially made it more worthwhile to stay unemployed. Anyway, that system has been reformed, and there's a harsher crackdown on illegal foreign workers. Which is as it should be.

Clearly, this contract will be struck down in courts, as it's obviously illegal. The Article itself didn't give any details. It (in its last paragraph) grossly oversimplified very complex social issues that exist in Israel, between orthodox and secular, arab and jew, sabra and immigrant, etc. Not very trustworthy.

So criticizing Israel is now "trolling."?


No, but starting a thread called " Israel is sickenly racist" is.

No, but starting a thread called " Israel is sickenly racist" is.Only if he didn't support the claim properly...:p

Everybody just give Serapindal a break. If anybody is an expert on sickening racism, it's him. Respect his authorita.

That doesn't surprise me. The one Israeli I knew was racist... though not against the group you mentioned, but even still... racism is all the same; just takes a different form.

However, from what I knew from what he had said to me (despite being racist towards me, I did have to communicate with the assbag... Yes, I had to talk to him! A prof stuck us in the same group for 2 assignments), in Judiasm, in order for the child to be considered Jewish, the mother and not the father must be Jewish.

Seeing how Israel is a Jewish theocracy, and they have a need to preserve it, even if it is racist, it does make logical sense based on the nature of their religion. However, if they didn't force it the law in, the nature in their religion still dictates that a Jewish boy must marry a Jewish girl in order for his children to be Jewish.

If he doesn't, his children aren't Jewish. However, if the Jewish girl marries any other kind of boy, her children are still Jewish... Of course, that is not always a given if she converts and then bapstises her children in another religion.

Not all Jews are Israeli's, not all Israeli's are Jews, and not all Jews support Israel. Also, I think generalizing a view about Jews based on one you have met is a bit stereotypical and just plain wrong: If I picked the worst Christian I've ever met that guy wouldn't even compare. Finally, don't judge a government based on one action, if you did the United States would be considered racist as hell (Japaneese Internment camps, Native American persecutions, Slavery...) Also, don't judge a whole country on the actions of a few officials.

wow that is weird what with most Israelis coming from Europe after WWII

But I guess history will repeat itself :(

Many times, oppressed people who are liberated will turn around and oppress others.

Examples:

1.Freed American slaves who settled in Liberia (Americo-Liberians)
2.Boers (who were put in concentration camps by the British during the Second Boer War)

Oh christ...

When will people learn that criticising Israel is NOT criticising Judaism as a whole - some Jews don't even agree with the Israeli policies.

It's like me saying that Drunken Commies Deleted is a complete islamaphobe for criticising Saudi Arabia just because it's an islamic country.

EXACTLY!

Hell, even being anti-Zionist doesn't make one anti-Semitic. Some of the staunchest foes of Zionism I have ever met were deeply religious Jews.

EXACTLY!

Hell, even being anti-Zionist doesn't make one anti-Semitic. Some of the staunchest foes of Zionism I have ever met were deeply religious Jews.Oh, don't get so excited. we know.

Anyway, this issue of immigrant workers is just another side of Israel's war against demographics. And I honestly don't know how it wll turn out.

EXACTLY!

Hell, even being anti-Zionist doesn't make one anti-Semitic. Some of the staunchest foes of Zionism I have ever met were deeply religious Jews.
Let's put it this way: not all anti-Zionists are anti-Semites- but all anti-Semites ae anti-Zionists.

My views on the article have pretty much been said already by other posters: the workers were hired by a not very sane employer, and if someone was to challenge the contract in court it would have been deemed illegal. The Guardian's reporting is biased to a ridiculous point.

My view on the thread headline and the one who wrote it would be too rude to post.

My view on the thread headline and the one who wrote it would be too rude to post.

Come on, post it! Post it! I want to know what all the fuss is about.

So criticizing Israel is now "trolling."?Well you got something against jewish people do you? And you called Israel racist? Ridiculous! Well you are a racist, this thread and the post you made from another thread is proven enough: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9799923&postcount=10

Yes, the company maybe racist against the Chinese but the company doesn't represent all of Israelis.

Well you got something against jewish people do you? And you called Israel racist? Ridiculous! Well you are a racist, this thread and the post you made from another thread is proven enough: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9799923&postcount=10

To the modmobile!!:p

To the modmobile!!:p lol

I thought he had been reported already.

Oh well, you can be Batman and I'll be Robin. Let's go fight some evil villians!!!:D

Considering the US had a LAW to the same effect...

Ah the joys of institutionalized bigotry.

Still, I'd like more info than a vague paragraph news article from The Guardian before I'd make any claimes.

lol

I thought he had been reported already.

Oh well, you can be Batman and I'll be Robin. Let's go fight some evil villians!!!:D

Excellent. But first lets buy vodka and hit on women.

or I guess, if you really want to do the "Robin thing", you can hit on men. Your choice.

Considering the US had a LAW to the same effect...

Ah the joys of institutionalized bigotry.

Still, I'd like more info than a vague paragraph news article from The Guardian before I'd make any claimes.

Somehow, I just don't think you'll be getting that from Serapindal.

If criticising a country in any way was a form of racism, then there'd be a hell of a lot of people exceedingly racist against the French, and a lot against Americans, on here.

What I find strange is that it is usually the same people who moan on about 'political correctness' that scream anti-semitism whenever anyone ever says Israel is not some kind of perfect utopia and not all Israelis are the best people on the planet. I don't understand what is going through their head. Do they want people to be encouraged to go around using slurs like "******", "paki", "gook", "rag head" and all the rest but the moment anyone says something about Israel in general they are hung?

Excellent. But first lets buy vodka and hit on women.Haha, sure:D

or I guess, if you really want to do the "Robin thing", you can hit on men. Your choice.Ummm.... sure!:D Do my tighties looked attractive to gay men?:D :D :D

*FYI, im not gay:D

If criticising a country in any way was a form of racism, then there'd be a hell of a lot of people exceedingly racist against the French, and a lot against Americans, on here.

What I find strange is that it is usually the same people who moan on about 'political correctness' that scream anti-semitism whenever anyone ever says Israel is not some kind of perfect utopia and not all Israelis are the best people on the planet. I don't understand what is going through their head. Do they want people to be encouraged to go around using slurs like "******", "paki", "gook", "rag head" and all the rest but the moment anyone says something about Israel in general they are hung?

Have you actually read the article? Or Drunk Commies particularly succinct post on page 1 showing how the thread title is total bullshit?

Ummm.... sure!:D Do my tighties looked attractive to gay men?:D :D :D

*FYI, im not gay:D

I have no idea what is attractive to gay men.

So, back to the vodka and women plan? Excellent.:cool:

Somehow, I just don't think you'll be getting that from Serapindal.
I have a feeling you're right.

Have you actually read the article? Or Drunk Commies particularly succinct post on page 1 showing how the thread title is total bullshit?

That doesn't change anything - just because someone wrongly criticises a country don't make them racist. Hell, a lot of Americans insult France and Europe in general without knowing jack shit about the place and never having visited there, making all kinds of crazy ass assumptions that are patently false. Doesn't make them racist, just ill informed. Racism is suggesting that a race of people are somehow inferiour to another - criticising another country's policies is not being racist.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1112442,00.html





Say...didn't Germany try that in 1935? Didn't work out well as I remember...

Man, as long as Israel gets their goddamned special intrest groups and tenticals out of OUR Congress, they can hate as many people as they want.

Goddamnit am I tired of the US covering their ass. Its sickening.

That doesn't change anything - just because someone wrongly criticises a country don't make them racist. Hell, a lot of Americans insult France and Europe in general without knowing jack shit about the place and never having visited there, making all kinds of crazy ass assumptions that are patently false. Doesn't make them racist, just ill informed.

No, but they're basically the same race.

Racism is suggesting that a race of people are somehow inferiour to another - criticising another country's policies is not being racist.

Read the fucking article, man. It's not the Israelis as a nation, it's one specific company. Then read the thread title, claiming all Israelis are racist. That's the racist part.

Oh, and it's serapindal, who has a history of trolling of this nature. But you would rather ignore that fact, it seems.

Have you actually read the article? Or Drunk Commies particularly succinct post on page 1 showing how the thread title is total bullshit?
the title makes a broad generalization and then supports it with a specific example, whether the generalization is true may be debatable but the example does support the assumption if not prove it. perhaps a better thread tile would be "there is sickening racism in isreal" o r"an example of sickening isreali racism" but its not out of context with the content of the article, just perhaps to strong or broad a statement.

the title makes a broad generalization and then supports it with a specific example, whether the generalization is true may be debatable but the example does support the assumption if not prove it. perhaps a better thread tile would be "there is sickening racism in isreal" o r"an example of sickening isreali racism" but its not out of context with the content of the article, just perhaps to strong or broad a statement.

Holy shit, why did I become the retarded thread title police?

Assuming I can read the poor grammar, it states explicitly that the whole of Israel is racist. That is wrong, it is inflammatory, and it is most likely trolling. Just because there is evidence of racism in Israel does not make the thread title any less ridiculous. Or can I claim all Americans are black because Morgan Freeman is?

Read the fucking article, man. It's not the Israelis as a nation, it's one specific company. Then read the thread title, claiming all Israelis are racist. That's the racist part.

Oh, and it's serapindal, who has a history of trolling of this nature. But you would rather ignore that fact, it seems.

The thread title doesn't read like that to me - it reads to me that there is is institutionalised racism in Israel because companies are allowed to get away with that sort of stuff. "Israel is sickeningly racist", not "Israelis are sickeningly racist" - the difference is significant. Obviously it's wrong, because it probably WON'T be allowed, especially since legal action is being taken. However, if it WERE allowed for companies to discriminate based on race then I would say that it's a pretty racist country - not that all Israelis are racist, that is a different claim, but that it is racist in the sense that some races are openly treated far worse than others and the government does nothing to intervene.

Like I say, would you call Drunken Commies Deleted a racist for criticising Saudi Arabia for it's institutionalised racism?

The thread title doesn't read like that to me - it reads to me that there is is institutionalised racism in Israel because companies are allowed to get away with that sort of stuff. "Israel is sickeningly racist", not "Israelis are sickeningly racist" - the difference is significant. Obviously it's wrong, because it probably WON'T be allowed, especially since legal action is being taken. However, if it WERE allowed for companies to discriminate based on race then I would say that it's a pretty racist country - not that all Israelis are racist, that is a different claim, but that it is racist in the sense that some races are openly treated far worse than others and the government does nothing to intervene.

Whatever, the point is the same. The thread title is misleading anti-semitic tripe.

And how exactly could Israel be racist if the Israelis weren't? Hmmm?

Like I say, would you call Drunken Commies Deleted a racist for criticising Saudi Arabia for it's institutionalised racism?

Depends. I've never seen Drunk Commies make a claim like that without actual evidence. If he did, then yes. So, you lose.

Holy shit, why did I become the retarded thread title police?

Assuming I can read the poor grammar, it states explicitly that the whole of Israel is racist. That is wrong, it is inflammatory, and it is most likely trolling. Just because there is evidence of racism in Israel does not make the thread title any less ridiculous. Or can I claim all Americans are black because Morgan Freeman is?
well it would be a reseasonable assumption if you didn't have any counter evidence. if the only american whose racial identity you could identify was mr. freeman you could reasonably form a hypothesis that all american were black. it would be based on very limited information, but it would accurately fit what information you had.

well it would be a reseasonable assumption if you didn't have any counter evidence. if the only american whose racial identity you could identify was mr. freeman you could reasonably form a hypothesis that all american were black. it would be based on very limited information, but it would accurately fit what information you had.

Okay, but if the only American I had ever known to exist was Morgan Freeman and you supported my belief that all Americans are black, wouldn't that make you an immoral dipshit?

Okay, but if the only American I had ever known to exist was Morgan Freeman and you supported my belief that all Americans are black, wouldn't that make you an immoral dipshit?
what, if i didn't clue you in on the wonderful racial and ethnic diversity of america i'm both evil and dumb?

i don't know, am i morally compelled to educate you on american culture, and i stupid if i don't?

maybe, but i kinda doubt it, within the context of my morality.

what, if i didn't clue you in on the wonderful racial and ethnic diversity of america i'm both evil and dumb?

i don't know, am i morally compelled to educate you on american culture, and i stupid if i don't?

maybe, but i kinda doubt it, within the context of my morality.

Okay, if you perpetuate the false impression I have, that is wrong. Say you show me a picture of Samuel L Jackson, further reinforcing my retarded hypothetical belief, that would be wrong, because you know it isn't true.

Or, to bring it back to the point at hand, I don't believe Serapindal is actually dense enough to believe his little article is the proof of his statement, but I'm damn sure he's trying to convince me all Americans are black.