NationStates Jolt Archive

It all seem somewhat of a fashion. Not religion, but now that I've mentioned it.. this whole religion bashing thing.. 's all good though!

But NO!
My main quibble (god I love that word!!), no matter what you say you can't deny it, your so called "God" can't play hide and seek! Omnipresence get's in the way! Why in hell should I worship a being who fails in such a way? eh!?

does anyone know how to get rid ofdouble posts?

does anyone know how to get rid ofdouble posts?
Can't you delete it?

It all seem somewhat of a fashion. Not religion, but now that I've mentioned it.. this whole religion bashing thing.. 's all good though!

But NO!
My main quibble (god I love that word!!), no matter what you say you can't deny it, your so called "God" can't play hide and seek! Omnipresence get's in the way! Why in hell should I worship a being who fails in such a way? eh!?

Ahem. Just for fun, I'd like to answer this.

Even if he knows all, sees all, and is everywhere, God can indeed play hide and seek (or perhaps peek-a-boo would be the modern equivalent):

When they heard the sound of the LORD God moving about in the garden at the breezy time of the day, the man and his wife hidthemselves from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. The LORD God then called to the man and asked him, "Where are you?"

The time is surely coming, says the Lord God, when I send a famine on the land . . . They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, seeking the word of the Lord, but they shall not find it.

And then, Jesus yells "Olly olly oxen free!"

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

So don't tell me that God cannot play hide-and-seek. :D

It all seem somewhat of a fashion. Not religion, but now that I've mentioned it.. this whole religion bashing thing.. 's all good though!

But NO!
My main quibble (god I love that word!!), no matter what you say you can't deny it, your so called "God" can't play hide and seek! Omnipresence get's in the way! Why in hell should I worship a being who fails in such a way? eh!?
I'd say God jolly well CAN play Hide and Seek.....you just don't want him Seeker, what with that omniscience and such.

I think the main problem here is God's ability to be both omnipresent, omniscient & omnipotent. Sure, it's omnipotent, so it can of course hide, but if it does, how can it be omnipresent at the same time? Makes no sense at all...

And if it's omniscient, how in hell can we have free will?

And if it's omniscient, how in hell can we have free will?

Traditional reply is that He doesn't exist in time in the same way we do. To Him, time is like the Bayeux Tapestry - it begins at the beginning of time and ends at the end of it, eternity notwithstanding. So although we freely made our decisions during our lives, going from right to left on the tapestry, He's looking at the right side and seeing what we decided to do.

And if it's omniscient, how in hell can we have free will?

We don't.

Zero, you made a thread with exactly the same thing a little while ago. Why make a new one?

i didn't.. I acidently posted it twice.. browser trouble and all.. hence:

does anyone know how to get rid ofdouble posts?

it should've died.. this reply isn't helping..

Considering this thread is about hide-and-seek and not about omniscience versus free will, I will stick to that subject (tee hee! This is fun!)

I think the main problem here is God's ability to be both omnipresent, omniscient & omnipotent. Sure, it's omnipotent, so it can of course hide, but if it does, how can it be omnipresent at the same time? Makes no sense at all...

Okay. Start with the premise that God does exist.

Now, factor in that so many people do not believe in Him. God is indeed omnipresent, but very many people still do not manage to find him.

Have you found Jesus yet? ;)

We don't.
Yes we do. Especially those of us who think God is a whole lot of cock and bull..

Of course... designed (along with the boogey man and all those other monsters under the bed things...) to scare us as children and obey our parents because we're little spineless brats! ;)

It all seem somewhat of a fashion. Not religion, but now that I've mentioned it.. this whole religion bashing thing.. 's all good though!

But NO!
My main quibble (god I love that word!!), no matter what you say you can't deny it, your so called "God" can't play hide and seek! Omnipresence get's in the way! Why in hell should I worship a being who fails in such a way? eh!?
and THAT is your main quibble with religion??? that you can make up a silly little paradox??

why does anyone care what the other believes, it doesnt matter if someone thinks god is there or not, its something to do with himself, its like discussing why people eat 3 times a day and others eat 2 and others dont eat at all, its there choice, so drop the God and religion bashing stuff..

It's hardly bashing.. I was actually taking the piss out of the antitheists.. 's just a joke..

Okay. Start with the premise that God does exist.

Now, factor in that so many people do not believe in Him. God is indeed omnipresent, but very many people still do not manage to find him.

Have you found Jesus yet? ;)

No, I looked behind the sofa and behind the clock, but he must be doing a bloody good job of hiding because I can't find him.

No, I looked behind the sofa and behind the clock, but he must be doing a bloody good job of hiding because I can't find him.
You're looking with your with your eyes. Let go of your senses. You can't miss something that's everywhere..

Traditional reply is that He doesn't exist in time in the same way we do. To Him, time is like the Bayeux Tapestry - it begins at the beginning of time and ends at the end of it, eternity notwithstanding. So although we freely made our decisions during our lives, going from right to left on the tapestry, He's looking at the right side and seeing what we decided to do.
But then he would not really know all he would know all the possibilities yes ... but he would lack the knoledge of which choice we make

Without being able to know that can we really say he is all knowing

You're looking with your with your eyes. Let go of your senses. You can't miss something that's everywhere..

And you can't find something that doesn't exist.

And how you can expect to find anything without using your senses is beyond me.

And you can't find something that doesn't exist.

And how you can expect to find anything without using your senses is beyond me.
It's quite easy. All you do is say "Found ya!". It doesn't matter where you are or where you're looking, God can't deny that he ain't there.

And you can't find something that doesn't exist.

And how you can expect to find anything without using your senses is beyond me.

Do you see, Zero Six Three? He's apparently VERY good at this hide-and-seek thing despite omnipresence; many have even stopped believing He exists! :D

Do you see, Zero Six Three? He's apparently VERY good at this hide-and-seek thing despite omnipresence; many have even stopped believing He exists! :D
Maybe ... then if christian dogma is right that makes him a major jackass
Playing hide and go seek with us then punishing all that dont find him

Specialy with all his supposed powers ... fucking nerf god

Do you see, Zero Six Three? He's apparently VERY good at this hide-and-seek thing despite omnipresence; many have even stopped believing He exists! :D
Yeah, only because they've stopped looking and why not ( I'm agnostic btw )? God cheats! When he seeks there is no hiding from him. What's the point? Would you enjoy such a game? Me neither..

Edit: Ha! That was already posted...

It's quite easy. All you do is say "Found ya!". It doesn't matter where you are or where you're looking, God can't deny that he ain't there.
So... He can't say that he isn't there? That's just bad grammar.

So... He can't say that he isn't there? That's just bad grammar.

Wrong. It's an effective use of the double negative. :)

It's quite easy. All you do is say "Found ya!". It doesn't matter where you are or where you're looking, God can't deny that he ain't there.

As he only exists in the imagination that is the only place he can do anything.

But NO!
My main quibble (god I love that word!!), no matter what you say you can't deny it, your so called "God" can't play hide and seek! Omnipresence get's in the way! Why in hell should I worship a being who fails in such a way? eh!?
So choose another image of god, one worthy of your worship, for heaven's sake. You don't have to look at only that one.

As he only exists in the imagination that is the only place he can do anything.
That's the only place he should do anything. That is where mountains get moved.

So choose another image of god, one worthy of your worship, for heaven's sake. You don't have to look at only that one.
I've yet to find one that satisfies my high standards. Could you offer any pointers?

I've yet to find one that satisfies my high standards. Could you offer any pointers?
What are your "high standards"? I have no idea what would meet them. Each existing image of god comes free with a set of associative stories, images and rituals that embrace an understanding not just the "other" but of ourselves. We humans are all representatives of god. I am a strong advocate of personal religions. Which ones of the existing images move you, stirs your soul? Is it the baby in the manger? Or the mother with the child at her breast? Or is it the shaman wearing a wolf's skull hide? Representatives of god. You can study all the images offered by all the religions of the world, but the best image of god is the one you invent, that fits you and suits your need, with mythic images that speak to you alone. Remember, the "truth" of god is not any of them; it is in all of them. I suppose it comes down to whether or not you need god in your life.

Considering this thread is about hide-and-seek and not about omniscience versus free will, I will stick to that subject (tee hee! This is fun!)

Okay. Start with the premise that God does exist.

Now, factor in that so many people do not believe in Him. God is indeed omnipresent, but very many people still do not manage to find him.

Have you found Jesus yet? ;)
But that's not the same thing... What you're doing is like comparing looking for Fat Bastard in a pastery store vs. Trying to find me in Sahara...

Of course I haven't found Jesus, I'm halfway across the globe, and much, much too young.

Also, I don't buy that omniscience answer. If God's capable of veiwing our actions before they happen - and he must be, if he's omniscient - then that alone is enough to undermine our free will.
Exactly how he goes about gathering knowledge, and whether he's part of the universe or outside time doesn't really matter here, as far as I can imagine.

But that's not the same thing... What you're doing is like comparing looking for Fat Bastard in a pastery store vs. Trying to find me in Sahara...

Of course I haven't found Jesus, I'm halfway across the globe, and much, much too young.

Also, I don't buy that omniscience answer. If God's capable of veiwing our actions before they happen - and he must be, if he's omniscient - then that alone is enough to undermine our free will.
Exactly how he goes about gathering knowledge, and whether he's part of the universe or outside time doesn't really matter here, as far as I can imagine.
I don't really care about free will but I do care about your opinion on the word "Quibble". I think it's great! What about you?

I don't really care about free will but I do care about your opinion on the word "Quibble". I think it's great! What about you?
I think it's hillarious. It's one of those words I'm always struggeling to find a use for in every-day situations :p

Too bad that without semi-serious posts, bad things happens to little innocent threads ;)

I don't really care about free will but I do care about your opinion on the word "Quibble". I think it's great! What about you?

Good, but not quite as good as scrumdiddlyumptious though :)

Good, but not quite as good as scrumdiddlyumptious though :)
I disagree. Truely great words are ones that no longer see common use, sound idiotic, and can spin a situation. scrumdiddlyumptious fails all those criteria.

I disagree. Truely great words are ones that no longer see common use, sound idiotic, and can spin a situation. scrumdiddlyumptious fails all those criteria.
Oh I don't know, it works quite well in sarcasm.

I appear to have hijacked my own post.:)

But then he would not really know all he would know all the possibilities yes ... but he would lack the knoledge of which choice we make

Without being able to know that can we really say he is all knowing

The analogy was meant to describe someone able to see the whole thing (time) at once. If you were outside of the complete space-time continuum (beyond all 11 dimensions), then you could look at any part of it, gaze at it for as long as you wished, just like holding a transparent ball in your hand.

And you would see me typing these words, watch me deciding what to type, and if you wish, you could look and see the answer I get back, while I am still typing, and then you could look and see what I did when I was two years old, and what happened 10,000 years ago, and you could take 1000 years to do it, examine each particle of each atom of every event, at your own pace.

And you could look at what to us is 10,000 years in the future if you wish.

That is omniscience. He sees you when you are sleeping, he sees you on the toilet, he sees you eating that nasty thing, he knows your thoughts if he chooses, and records all your words, to be played back to you at a later date (judgement day).:eek:

The analogy was meant to describe someone able to see the whole thing (time) at once. If you were outside of the complete space-time continuum (beyond all 11 dimensions), then you could look at any part of it, gaze at it for as long as you wished, just like holding a transparent ball in your hand.

And you would see me typing these words, watch me deciding what to type, and if you wish, you could look and see the answer I get back, while I am still typing, and then you could look and see what I did when I was two years old, and what happened 10,000 years ago, and you could take 1000 years to do it, examine each particle of each atom of every event, at your own pace.

And you could look at what to us is 10,000 years in the future if you wish.

That is omniscience. He sees you when you are sleeping, he sees you on the toilet, he sees you eating that nasty thing, he knows your thoughts if he chooses, and records all your words, to be played back to you at a later date (judgement day).:eek:
It's easy to throw around phrases like, "outside the space-time continuum," but ...that doesn't actually mean anything. And for those who say, "well, it's incomprehensible to us," that is exactly the same as saying, "it's nonsense (not sensible)." And when you throw in the consideration that the idea of the omnipotent god arose in an era long before "space-time" theories, you have to dismiss such explanations and not representative of what "omniscience" really means.

Omniscience means god sees through your eyes, metaphorically speaking. He knows all you know, because he knows you, intimately, the same way he knows each of us. He knows what is in our hearts, on our minds, and our intentions. From Wikipedia: "Omniscience is the capacity to know everything, or at least everything that can be known about a character/s including thoughts, feelings, etc."

It has nothing to do with god external to us.