NationStates Jolt Archive

So let me get this straight, it's ok to show videos or pictures of wounded and dead Americans or non-Muslim people being beheaded, but not pictures of insugents who got whacked.

I live in a world where it's OK to show bombs dropping on a city, children with limbs blown off, TV shows with people getting killed, reality TV shows with people eating feces, video games where the players are encouraged to kill cops and civilians...

But Janet Jackson's nappy nipple slips out on a device called the "boob tube" and people flip out.

And I can't post a link to a fairly tame incident of two Iraqis having sex with a donkey.

Do you have any similar contradictions in your life or your country?

I think you're talking more about hypocrisy, and yes I agree with you. It is stupid how people never see the reality of things like war, how images are sanitised as if we were all babies. If you can't handle it, don't watch it.

I saw a women in the grocery store spanking her kid the other day guess what for? hitting her little brother. as the mom is smacking the kid she says "we don't hit, hitting is wrong"

yeah like that isn't going to confuse the kid.

my parents used to spank me and then when I would cry they would say "shut up or I'll give you something to cry about!"

I'm sorry but didn't the fact that they just belted me count as something to cry about?!

I never did get it......

One the one hand we have mankind working what appears as miracles (sending a car to mars, heart surgery, cloning, etc.), and on the other hand we have mankind unable to live together in peace and prosperity. For the later you really don't have to go to the Middle East, assuming you live in a first world country, just read the local newspaper.

Folks who claim to support freedom... by abolishing capitalism and enforcing near-omnipotent rule by the state and ignoring or oppressing any who might happen to dissent.

People who are perfectly content to walk down a street past hundreds of cars belching auto pollution each and every day, but want to ban cigarettes for health reasons.

I like going over to my Mom's apartment.

Lately, she's on this kick to get me to buy water filters for all of my faucets. She says I am drinking germs and filth.

And when I go over to her apartment, I look at the stack of dirty dishes in her sink (several days worth), and count the flies buzzing in her kitchen.

Teachers that worry that the class doesn't respect them and then use the same tone they talk to the class with for the Prospero line "Foul thing as thou art".

Dare I mention Pope Benedict, who believes that the only way to avoid a totalitarian state is for everyone to follow the ideological teachings of the Catholic Church without question?

Or how about George W. Bush and friends, who tell us that the only way to protect our freedom is to submit to mandatory searches, conduct secret trials, and not question the president's judgement?

:rolleyes:

"To arrive at a contradiction is to confess an error in one's thinking; to maintain a contradiction is to abdicate one's mind and to evict oneself from the realm of reality" --Ayn Rand

People who are perfectly content to walk down a street past hundreds of cars belching auto pollution each and every day, but want to ban cigarettes for health reasons.
Beat me to it......

Though I can say, on this note, that there is one city in my area that's not failing miserably from it -- Lawrence banned smoking in restaurants and stuff a year or two ago, along with having lowered air pollution when the rest of the lazy college bastards discovered "Huh.....the main shopping area is maybe twelve blocks from camps. I could buy a bike".

So, one success, amongst the waves of failure, and on top of it all I can't smoke in Denny's.

"To arrive at a contradiction is to confess an error in one's thinking; to maintain a contradiction is to abdicate one's mind and to evict oneself from the realm of reality" --Ayn Rand

I've posted Randisms before on this forum (back in the summer), and was beaten up for it.

What's with the current popularity?

I've posted Randisms before on this forum (back in the summer), and was beaten up for it.

What's with the current popularity?

To be honest, I had not noticed before. I don't agree with everything Rand has ever said, but on this one, I think it's on the money.

I've posted Randisms before on this forum (back in the summer), and was beaten up for it.

What's with the current popularity?
Me.

The state is willing to allow a lethal injection to be given to a child molester and murderer,

but denies that same injection to a person who has lived a moral life and has contracted a painful debilitating ilness.

(So if you want assisted suicide, kill someone in the most brutal form imaginable.):confused:

Me.

Hahaha it's in your sig! Did you just do that now?

Hahaha it's in your sig! Did you just do that now?
No, it's been in there for a while; probably since July or August I think. I actually thought that's where you'd found it.

No, it's been in there for a while; probably since July or August I think. I actually thought that's where you'd found it.

Heh, kewl, no it's one of my favourite quotes. But kewl. :)

My favorite:
"The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles."

The state is willing to allow a lethal injection to be given to a child molester and murderer,

but denies that same injection to a person who has lived a moral life and has contracted a painful debilitating ilness.

(So if you want assisted suicide, kill someone in the most brutal form imaginable.):confused:


how true....and another odd bit on the same subject,they swab your arm with alcohol(to prevent infection)before they stick the needle of death in you..whew:confused:

The way the richest country in the world needs charity appeals on TV to deal with what in global terms turned out to be a minor disaster.

Steph probably thought this was my favorite Ayn Randism:
"A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims."

My favorite:
"The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles."

My favourite quote of all time is actually by Einstein, which I'm sure any one who's ever been to war or supported one will think vile..lol I even have the poster on my office wall. ;)

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable an ignorable war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -- Albert Einstein

I've never been impressed with Einstein philosophically. That's a good little quote, but it's coming from the same mouth who uttered the phrase: "Only a life lived for others is a life worth living."

To me, this implies that Einstein was marching to music in rank and file to begin with; only in a deeper philosophical sense as opposed to the obvious physical example. The collectivism he seems to be encouraging above is utterly irreconcileable with the quote Steph posted just now.

I've never been impressed with Einstein philosophically. That's a good little quote, but it's coming from the same mouth who uttered the phrase: "Only a life lived for others is a life worth living."

To me, this implies that Einstein was marching to music in rank and file to begin with; only in a deeper philosophical sense as opposed to the obvious physical example. The collectivism he seems to be encouraging above is utterly irreconcileable with the quote Steph posted just now.

As with Rand, I also don't believe everything Einstein ever said either. I know how society likes to put us all in neat little categories, I however don't fit any of them really. I get dubbed a liberal mostly because I seem to care and I am against the Iraq war... but in reality I've always been a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, some may say I fall more into libertarian ground, but again, I hate categories, none of us ever fall completely into just one, at least I don't believe. Except for the blind follower.

People who want to promote more freedoms and prevent the US from becoming a theocracy...by banning religion. I mean, that's just making the US an atheist theology.

The ACLU, or American Civil(more like Crinimal) Liberties Union is just trying to look liberal, which makes their name a contradiction when you look at some of the things that are liberal. They support laws protecting people who were in prison multiple times for child molestation. The fact that they humped another kid after getting out of jail should have been an indication that they shouldn't be near kids. They are also against people protesting illegal immigration. What parts of illegal and first amendment rights don't they understand? They are basicly against whatever conservatives, moderates, and some liberals are for. That's just what is said about them from former members. Politics shouldn't exist outside of politics. They should stop breathing since all the "evil conservatives" love breathing.

People who want to protect America by pulling out all troops out of Iraq now while the terrorists are watching. Maybe people shouldn't agree with Sheehan and her "you're either with me or with the conservatives" ideology, which basicly means that Kerry and Hilary are now conservative.

People who think that widening the highways will promote bad health, yet they like smoking.

First off, congestion also promotes bad health.

Secondly, what would someone who likes to pump tar, carbon dioxide, rat poison, and nicotine(which has a much lower lethal dose than arsenic) into his or her lungs know about good health? Show me that you really do know about good health practices and then we'll talk.

Thirdly, loud voices are annoying. Sheehan and those conservatives that talk loud down the street really prove this point.

This thread was made for me, wasn't it?


Humanity is full of contradictions. Wealthy evangelists preach a religion that calls for equality, antimaterialism, and brotherhood while cheating the poor out of their money. People value virtues such as truth, compassion, and honesty, without ever practicing them themselves. People seek freedom if they are among the ruled, but complete power if they are the rulers. People invent all these principles, but fail to live up to them.

Face it. We're all greedy, hypocritical, and self-centered. If you can't accept that and insist on creating your own set of morals and principles to avoid that, it just makes you more so. There's no way we can be virtuous. Live with it.

People who think that widening the highways will promote bad health, yet they like smoking.

First off, congestion also promotes bad health.

Secondly, what would someone who likes to pump tar, carbon dioxide, rat poison, and nicotine(which has a much lower lethal dose than arsenic) into his or her lungs know about good health? Show me that you really do know about good health practices and then we'll talk.

Thirdly, loud voices are annoying. Sheehan and those conservatives that talk loud down the street really prove this point.

Well, for these hypothetical people who love smoking but hate traffic, there are some big differences. Excluding second-hand smoke, which is avoidable, smoking just kills the person who chooses to smoke. More cars on the road causes pollution which harms everyone. And sure, traffic congestion is really bad pollution-wise, but when you increase road capacity you also increase the number of cars on the road, so you usually don't reduce congestion.

People who think that widening the highways will promote bad health, yet they like smoking.

Widening the highways WILL promote bad health. What's the contradiction? Does the fact that they like smoking mean they think smoking is healthful? No.


Secondly, what would someone who likes to pump tar, carbon dioxide, rat poison, and nicotine(which has a much lower lethal dose than arsenic) into his or her lungs know about good health?

Hmm, that's a tough one.

Oh yeah, I know! Same things anyone else knows about good health.

Risk taking does not mean ignorance. It just means we have balls.

my favorite contradiction

a mother with a good career is a selfish bitch who is paying someone else to raise her kids

a mother who takes public assistance so she can stay home with her kids is a lazy bitch who should get a job.

Goths who say they don't want to conform or dress like everybody else and so they conform to another group where they all dress the same.

Salami is round and bread is square.

No prizes for knowing where I got that from (I know he says something else instead of salami, but Im not about to venture into spelling it.)

Face it. We're all greedy, hypocritical, and self-centered.
If you can't accept that and insist on creating your own set of morals and principles to avoid that, it just makes you more so. There's no way we can be virtuous. Live with it.
Bullshit. What if your morals don't avoid that [save for hypocrisy]? If there's no way we can be virtuous, what's the point of values or ethics at all? If there is no point to values, why shouldn't I grab a .45 and lodge a bullet into some random guy's spine?

Bullshit. What if your morals don't avoid that [save for hypocrisy]? If there's no way we can be virtuous, what's the point of values or ethics at all? If there is no point to values, why shouldn't I grab a .45 and lodge a bullet into some random guy's spine?

cos you'd go to jail.duh

lets start with the obvious,

We drive on parkways and park on Driveways
Cargos go by ship and Shipments go by cars.
Ever get sent to the Principal's office for "Being Smart" in school?
why is the word Big (3 Letters) smaller than the word Little (6 letters)
why do they call it, when two planes nearly collide in mid air a "Near Miss" wouldn't a collision be a Near Miss?
would you go and eat at the "Terminal Restraunt"?
we can go to A Fast Food Joint and sue them for making us Fat.
We can go to a Fast Food Joint and Order a Double Bacon Cheezeburger, Large Seasoned fries and a DIET cola.
We take the elevator down from our apartment, drive to the city, take the escalator up to the Gym to work out on a Stairmaster and Stationary bike.
WHY is ON and OFF written on a Light Switch... If it's on, you'll see the light. if it's off, it's do dam dark to read.
Why to people want to buy Sented Toilet Paper. It's gonna get a scent anyway... and chances are the new scent will be stronger than the one it came with.
Why is it Cusine when it's on the plate, but the moment it hits the sink (even one that was just sterilized) it's garbage?
why do we try to promote literacy but insists on using pictures on our crosswalks?
If PRO is for and CON is against, and Progress is going forward, then Congress...

I live in a world where it's OK to show bombs dropping on a city, children with limbs blown off, TV shows with people getting killed, reality TV shows with people eating feces, video games where the players are encouraged to kill cops and civilians...

But Janet Jackson's nappy nipple slips out on a device called the "boob tube" and people flip out.
You don't live in a "world" like that, you live in a country like that. In Europe TV is more sex-orientated. *cough* Germany *cough*

"To arrive at a contradiction is to confess an error in one's thinking; to maintain a contradiction is to abdicate one's mind and to evict oneself from the realm of reality" --Ayn Rand
She is no-one to talk about reality or pragmatism. All the justifications for her ideas are philosophical.

My favorite:
"The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles."
I can't believe that Rand is right!

I've never been impressed with Einstein philosophically. That's a good little quote, but it's coming from the same mouth who uttered the phrase: "Only a life lived for others is a life worth living."

To me, this implies that Einstein was marching to music in rank and file to begin with; only in a deeper philosophical sense as opposed to the obvious physical example. The collectivism he seems to be encouraging above is utterly irreconcileable with the quote Steph posted just now.
Einstein is so right!

Bullshit. What if your morals don't avoid that [save for hypocrisy]? If there's no way we can be virtuous, what's the point of values or ethics at all? If there is no point to values, why shouldn't I grab a .45 and lodge a bullet into some random guy's spine?
Exactly. There is no point to values.

And the only reason we don't do that is because we have the self-interest. The urge to avoid going to jail is stronger than the urge to go and shoot people. And when it isn't, that's when we have murder.

NOTE: If any of the below offends, then sorry, but these are my opinions and not necessarily 100% truth

Police legally kill every day, usually killing people that kill others.

Doctors will not allow people to die from euphanasia but can only reply with apologies if patients die.

Teachers often break the rules they impose on their students (i.e. taking food out of the canteen, being late with (marking) homework, being late for class etc)

Religions bash the heck out of other religions that are in effect worshipping the SAME GOD (usually Christians, Muslims and Jews)

Doctors will not allow people to die from euphanasia but can only reply with apologies if patients die.
I am continually amused by the fact that the same groups who support abortion up to the last second and euthanasia oppose the death penalty. Personally, I support all of the above (well, with rational restraint) before someone brands me as a "pro-lifer".
Religions bash the heck out of other religions that are in effect worshipping the SAME GOD (usually Christians, Muslims and Jews)
Actually, Christians are very definite in their difference from Muslims and Jews. If you follow either the Koran or tthe Torah, then Christians are a bunch of polytheistic, pervert cultists for worshipping a man who was either insane (Jews) or a good egg (Muslims).

The most annoying contradiction I have seen is in those certain atheist who demand that we outlaw religion because it causes strife, holy wars, preaching to those who don't want it and oppression. Well, lets see. If I outlaw something, then I must enforce the law, that would mean a war on religious groups that turn violent, strife among the religious and the areligious, and imprisoning those religious people for their personal beliefs (rather oppressive, no?) Oh yeah, and why have you just spent the last 5 minutes preaching to me?
No, I think that I won't be joining your social group, and will probably not adapt my lifestyle to your philosophical teachings today.

She is no-one to talk about reality or pragmatism. All the justifications for her ideas are philosophical.
Um.... yeah, that's why it's a philosophy.

Einstein is so right!
Stunning argument.

cos you'd go to jail.duh
And there we have the only complete and infallible form of moral philosophy.

Exactly. There is no point to values.

And the only reason we don't do that is because we have the self-interest. The urge to avoid going to jail is stronger than the urge to go and shoot people. And when it isn't, that's when we have murder.

I disagree, although there is no inherent morality, I do not believe everything is motivated by self interest. A great deal of human behavior is absurd and emotions play just a great a role as rationalism.

I also see no reason why values have no point just because they are human created and not inherent. Human beings seek pleasure and fullfillment, and can aqquire both through alturism (or malevolence, it depends on the person).

(Also, just to nitpick, is not self-interest a value of sorts. There is the natural human drive to survive, and then there is the value of self-interest used in interaction with human society. Just because it is not reguraly praised except by neo-liberals and Objectavists does not make it any less of a human created moral value.)

Maybe this is a little controversial (Will it result in thread-jacking? I hope not), but the biggest contradiction that I see on the news everyday is:

You're about a million times more likely to get killed by a car than by a terrorist.
Every year Malaria kills 1.3 million people. Terrorism might kill 10,000 - and that only because Iraq is in such a state right now.

We're allocating resources in a slightly distorted way, don't you think?
Maybe this is the number one argument for saying that humans are not rational decisionmakers.

Maybe this is the number one argument for saying that humans are not rational decisionmakers.
In groups? Of course not. That's what I've been trying to tell you people.

In groups? Of course not. That's what I've been trying to tell you people. Hahaha, "K" from Men in Black was right!

"A person is smart, people are dumb, panicky, paranoid creatures."

In groups? Of course not. That's what I've been trying to tell you people.
Hmm..
How does individual decisionmaking differ from group decisionmaking?

Even in a democracy every heroic individual still makes a decision - and it seems that the vast majority of them have chosen to concentrate on terrorism, even though it should be clear to all of them that malaria and car accidents kill more people than terrorists.

Hmm..
How does individual decisionmaking differ from group decisionmaking?


1.
http://learning.cc.hccs.edu/Members/cschweitzer/images/thinker.jpg

2.
http://aarons.cc/i/japan-riot.jpg

-pics-
Funny pictures, but they prove nothing.
Those dudes (and chicks) in No. 2 are all individuals. They all made individual decisions about what to do.
They all decided individually that it would be a good idea to bash each other (except those that are caught in the middle of course).
The stupidity and irrationality is not in the group, it is in the people that make it up.

Funny pictures, but they prove nothing.
Those dudes (and chicks) in No. 2 are all individuals. They all made individual decisions about what to do.
They all decided individually that it would be a good idea to bash each other (except those that are caught in the middle of course).
The stupidity and irrationality is not in the group, it is in the people that make it up.

Yes they are all individuals. But they act as a group. And that is the problem.

Have you never heard of groupthink? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink)

But they act as a group. And that is the problem.
If anything these guys act as individuals more than anything, there is no cooperation here - they are competing quite drastically.
This particular picture shows that people's emotions sometimes kill off rational thinking.

Have you never heard of groupthink? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink)
I'm a management student, they tell me all the time. :D
It does exist, yes. But it doesn't happen often enough to blame it for every time a suboptimal outcome occurs.
Are you saying the "War on Terror" (not the policy in the white house, but the culture pervasive in modern society) is merely groupthink on a scale of billions?

If anything these guys act as individuals more than anything, there is no cooperation here - they are competing quite drastically.
This particular picture shows that people's emotions sometimes kill off rational thinking.

Group=/=cooperation. Individuality=/=competition.

That said, you're right - and the fact that people in groups tend to act dumber than individually worsens the irrationality.


I'm a management student, they tell me all the time. :D
It does exist, yes. But it doesn't happen often enough to blame it for every time a suboptimal outcome occurs.

I don't blame it every time a suboptimal outcome occurs.

But riots? Socialism? Oh yes. It's all a classic case of subsuming the individual to the group dynamic. Responsibility, or blame - both get shunted to the 'group' instead of the individual (in the individuals minds).

Are you saying the "War on Terror" (not the policy in the white house, but the culture pervasive in modern society) is merely groupthink on a scale of billions?

Well, you could say that, yes. The media tends to make that easy by stating and reinforcing the prevailing dynamic. Whether intentionally or not. Same with the notion that anyone who criticizes, supports terrorism. (That was a prevailing dynamic for up to a year after 9/11, and it still exists but not overwhelmingly anymore.) It's the same story - the group is right, the minority or dissenting individual is to be attacked. In some cases literally. Most of the time, just verbally and politically.

Humanity is full of contradictions. Wealthy evangelists preach a religion that calls for equality, antimaterialism, and brotherhood while cheating the poor out of their money. People value virtues such as truth, compassion, and honesty, without ever practicing them themselves. People seek freedom if they are among the ruled, but complete power if they are the rulers. People invent all these principles, but fail to live up to them.

Face it. We're all greedy, hypocritical, and self-centered. If you can't accept that and insist on creating your own set of morals and principles to avoid that, it just makes you more so. There's no way we can be virtuous. Live with it.

I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see this statement come from someone else. I have been saying this for years, and have yet to truly find anything that contradicts it in any meaningful way. I can sleep now knowing that all hope is not lost on this pile of dog crap we call the human race.

My favourite quote of all time is actually by Einstein, which I'm sure any one who's ever been to war or supported one will think vile..lol I even have the poster on my office wall. ;)
-quote-
I prefer
Which weapons will be used in World War Three, I do not know. I can tell you that World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones.
-Albert Einstein

Why is 'Dyslexia' such a hard word?
Why are cigaretts sold at gasstations when it's forbidden to smoke there?
How does the guy who drives the snowplough get to work in the morning?
If 7/11 is open all day round, every day-why are there locks on the doors?
If it's illegal to drink and drive, why to bars have parking lots and why are you asked to ahow your drivers license when buying alcohol?
Why isn't palindrome spelled the same way backwards?
Why doesn't sheep shrink when it rains?

And the most stupid word in the english language:
Lisp. Why is there a friggin' 's' in lisp!?

So let me get this straight, it's ok to show videos or pictures of wounded and dead Americans or non-Muslim people being beheaded, but not pictures of insugents who got whacked.It isn't ok to show videos or pictures of wounded and dead Americans or non-Muslim people being beheaded where I live...

Group=/=cooperation.
How can you live in a group if you don't cooperate with each other?

Individuality=/=competition.
Well, as an individual you can only
a) stay completely alone
b) work together with others in a group (ie cooperate - which you say eliminates the individual decisionmaking process)

It isn't ok to show videos or pictures of wounded and dead Americans or non-Muslim people being beheaded where I live...

Hell, if I'm buying a plastic model kit of WW II German equipment, I can't get one that has any swastika decals, or even SS flashes on the little plastic men, if I buy the kit in Germany.

Hell, if I'm buying a plastic model kit of WW II German equipment, I can't get one that has any swastika decals, or even SS flashes on the little plastic men, if I buy the kit in Germany.Nope. I prefer WWI and 1/72 scale models myself, so it doesn't really bother me.;)

Nope. I prefer WWI and 1/72 scale models myself, so it doesn't really bother me.;)

It really messes things up when you're trying to build a Stuka, and you're forced to paint the swastika on the tail yourself.

I mean, it's not like I'm trying to do anything more than a historical recreation (to go with the various Allied fighters I've built).

People who want to protect America by pulling out all troops out of Iraq now while the terrorists are watching. Maybe people shouldn't agree with Sheehan and her "you're either with me or with the conservatives" ideology, which basicly means that Kerry and Hilary are now conservative."Now" conservative?