NationStates Jolt Archive

SOSDD

http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/archdiocesesaysitdidntshieldkidsfrompriests

"Last year, the Diocese of Orange settled 90 cases for $100 million. Parties to the current suits have estimated that suits against the Los Angeles Archdiocese, which involve alleged abuse by more than 200 priests, could cost $1 billion."

One billion? Wow. I read a month or two ago that as a whole they paid 1 billion across the land.

The new "tactic" seems to be that they were trying to solve it on their own but they won't be able to answer the "Why do you place them near children again and again and....."

I still smirk over the Panzer Pope saying the American Press has blown this out of proportion......

The Catholic Church has always been corupt but now in modern times it is too easy to have your dirty laundry aired for the world to see. The Church isn't used to having it's crimes exposed. Perhaps they will clean up their act when they see they can't get away with things easy anymore.

SOSDD

http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/archdiocesesaysitdidntshieldkidsfrompriests

"Last year, the Diocese of Orange settled 90 cases for $100 million. Parties to the current suits have estimated that suits against the Los Angeles Archdiocese, which involve alleged abuse by more than 200 priests, could cost $1 billion."

One billion? Wow. I read a month or two ago that as a whole they paid 1 billion across the land.

The new "tactic" seems to be that they were trying to solve it on their own but they won't be able to answer the "Why do you place them near children again and again and....."

I still smirk over the Panzer Pope saying the American Press has blown this out of proportion......


Celibacy is not natural for humans.

SOSDD

http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/archdiocesesaysitdidntshieldkidsfrompriests

"Last year, the Diocese of Orange settled 90 cases for $100 million. Parties to the current suits have estimated that suits against the Los Angeles Archdiocese, which involve alleged abuse by more than 200 priests, could cost $1 billion."

One billion? Wow. I read a month or two ago that as a whole they paid 1 billion across the land.

The new "tactic" seems to be that they were trying to solve it on their own but they won't be able to answer the "Why do you place them near children again and again and....."

I still smirk over the Panzer Pope saying the American Press has blown this out of proportion......

And I still cry over the panzer pope's hypocrisy in condemning gays and lesbians as "immoral" while his church organizes a cover-up for "en masse" child molestation.

Seems to me the catholic church is more immoral than any gay, lesbian, aborted mother, and condom-using teenagers will ever be.

And I still cry over the panzer pope's hypocrisy in condemning gays and lesbians as "immoral" while his church organizes a cover-up for "en masse" child molestation.

Seems to me the catholic church is more immoral than any gay, lesbian, aborted mother, and condom-using teenagers will ever be.
Hey guys. Hey. Hey. Let's not assume that it's the "Catholic Church" as a whole that's doing this. Do the Catholics in Europe or anywhere else in the world have this problem? Does the average father of a Catholic household have this problem? Am I, as a lifelong Catholic, apt to develop this problem?

Didn't think so. The actions of a MINORITY of AMERICAN priests should not speak for the entirety of the Church.

"Yet more pedophile priests. LA this time"

Well ... it is LA, after all! :rolleyes:

Celibacy is not natural for humans.
Jesus, Ghandi, and Buddha did it.

And the Dalai Lama's doing it today.

I don't think a vow of celibacy explains why they're molesting kids. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many pedophiles who are married.

Simonist']Hey guys. Hey. Hey. Let's not assume that it's the "Catholic Church" as a whole that's doing this. Do the Catholics in Europe or anywhere else in the world have this problem? Does the average father of a Catholic household have this problem? Am I, as a lifelong Catholic, apt to develop this problem?

Didn't think so. The actions of a MINORITY of AMERICAN priests should not speak for the entirety of the Church.

True, though on the other hand the fact that the problem is concentrated specifically in Catholic authority figures should receive at least a little consideration. You're right that this appears to be mostly a US thing at the moment, perhaps because Europe is more tolerant of gays and therefore ones in the priesthood don't feel they must resort to pederasty. Back in the middle ages, however, pedophilia and pederasty were mainstays of the Catholic higher-ups.

Jesus, Ghandi, and Buddha did it.

And the Dalai Lama's doing it today.

I don't think a vow of celibacy explains why they're molesting kids. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many pedophiles who are married.

Little sidenote: was JC actually celibate? I've heard a number of semiofficial legends involving Mary Magdalene, etc. That idea dates back to long before the Da Vinci Code.

True, though on the other hand the fact that the problem is concentrated specifically in Catholic authority figures should receive at least a little consideration. You're right that this appears to be mostly a US thing at the moment, perhaps because Europe is more tolerant of gays and therefore ones in the priesthood don't feel they must resort to pederasty. Back in the middle ages, however, pedophilia and pederasty were mainstays of the Catholic higher-ups.
But back in the Middle Ages, priests and monks were also encouraged to sleep with nuns in order to ensure that they could keep their vows, which are more intended to keep a priest focused on congregation over family. It's similar to the reason that they discourage older women from becoming Sisters after their husbands die -- if you have a family, you can't focus wholeheartedly on God's work.

Little sidenote: was JC actually celibate? I've heard a number of semiofficial legends involving Mary Magdalene, etc. That idea dates back to long before the Da Vinci Code.
It's been disputed for eternity. It probably WILL be disputed for eternity. The fact is, until we find a verifyable source (which won't happen, because the opposition to either side will always fire back) or can go back in time to see for sure (which risks screwing with the entire contiuum), it really is a matter of opinion. I don't believe Jesus was celibate, and neither did my priest try to teach me otherwise, because he didn't know any better than I.

Ah, once agian the evils of the Roman Catholic Church are shown to the world.

One Christian Church exposed as a hypocritial, explotive organization.

A billion to go.

Ah, once agian the evils of the Roman Catholic Church are shown to the world.

One Christian Church exposed as a hypocritial, explotive organization.

A billion to go.
Oh really? There are a BILLION Christian denominations? So what, like, one per person, right?

So then clearly the "evils" of the Roman Catholic Church are minor in comparison, wouldn't you think?

Could've worded that more clearly....

Simonist']Oh really? There are a BILLION Christian denominations? So what, like, one per person, right?
No, that should read "7 billion".

Think about it. It's people. All people are hypocritical, exploitive organizations after all. (A centralized organization of cells, so to speak.) Can't you see that? :rolleyes:

No, that should read "7 billion".

Think about it. It's people. All people are hypocritical, exploitive organizations after all. (A centralized organization of cells, so to speak.) Can't you see that? :rolleyes:
I dunno, I was willing to give the credit of 1 billion = 7 people per church....

Awwww, you found me. My wireless internet connection has been found out.

Does that mean I can now legitimately re-claim ownership of my own imaginary self?

Simonist']I dunno, I was willing to give the credit of 1 billion = 7 people per church....

Awwww, you found me. My wireless internet connection has been found out.

Does that mean I can now legitimately re-claim ownership of my own imaginary self?
No. My delusions have no rights. I deliberately oppress them so they eventually come to accept the Great Truth of Chaotic Chthonically-Oriented Socialistic Proactivism, as in the immortal words of our great leader Bernard X. Quetzall, "War is for logical purposes a theoretical inconsistency caused by a lack of oppression and a desire for peace." If you disagree call 1-800-KILL-SIMONIST and give your name and address so that our snipers can shoot you through the window while our operator detains you unavoidably on the other end with incoherent rambling!

. . . You're right that this appears to be mostly a US thing at the moment, perhaps because Europe is more tolerant of gays and therefore ones in the priesthood don't feel they must resort to pederasty. . .

I think it's dangerous, and wrong, to confuse homosexuality with pedophilia.

People don't molest children because they're gay -- they molest children because they're friggen messed up.

It's true you probably see a higher rate of homosexuality in the priesthood than in other jobs, but this is because, as devout Catholics, they know they cannot have relations with other men and instead choose to live a life of celibacy. This doesn't mean they're going to turn around and rape kids.

True, though on the other hand the fact that the problem is concentrated specifically in Catholic authority figures should receive at least a little consideration.

Actually, Protestant churches have similar problems. The Catholic ones are just more prominent, and the scandal magnifies with the higher-ups moving the offenders around.

True, though on the other hand the fact that the problem is concentrated specifically in Catholic authority figures should receive at least a little consideration. You're right that this appears to be mostly a US thing at the moment, perhaps because Europe is more tolerant of gays and therefore ones in the priesthood don't feel they must resort to pederasty. Back in the middle ages, however, pedophilia and pederasty were mainstays of the Catholic higher-ups.

For one thing, homosexuality and pedophillia are two different things.

Europe isn't clean from this. Just hasn't had as many cases. A coworker told a story of a relation to her husband that was kidnapped by the Priest, taken out in the middle of nowhere, tortured and assaulted.

End result; the Priest was moved to Canada.....

Repressing your sexuality through guilt and shame to appease a deity and your surroudings fucks you up so much you become a child molester? Imagine that!

No wonder the Catholic Church wants to cover this up.

/Colour me unsurprised.

Simonist']Hey guys. Hey. Hey. Let's not assume that it's the "Catholic Church" as a whole that's doing this. Do the Catholics in Europe or anywhere else in the world have this problem? Does the average father of a Catholic household have this problem? Am I, as a lifelong Catholic, apt to develop this problem?

Didn't think so. The actions of a MINORITY of AMERICAN priests should not speak for the entirety of the Church.

I'm sorry if I didn't state my idea quite clearly enough: I didn't equate being catholic to being a pedophile.

What I do condemn, is the Catholic Church, as an organization, working to cover up those scandals and protecting their pedophile priests instead of being scandalized like the rest of us and shoving those molesters out of Church.

It's the Church's authorities who are failing us, here, not the common believer. The pope and his cardinals judge homosexual adults' expressing their love for each other in a private and with consent as "sinful", while they do nothing to condemn the acts of the men who represent them and God(acts which, unlike mundane gays and lesbians, have nothing to do with love, are without the consent of the victims, and leave children scarred for life). Not only do they NOT condemn them, they give them a sort of tacit approval by trying to hide their deeds and protect those men.

That doesn't say anything about your average, run-of-the-mill Catholic or Christian, nor does it imply your local priest must be a pedophile: I'm simply stating that the Church authorities, by their reaction, are both hypocritical and in my not so humble opinion almost endorsing the situation. And this has to stop.

/rant

sexual molestation of children happens all over the place, not just in the catholic church. wherever an adult has great authority over a child and esp if he has authority over the childs parents too, it happens and goes unreported.

where the church is in error is in not immediatly turning these cases over to the police. child molestation and rape is a CRIME not just a sin. it is not in the authority of the bishop, archbishop, cardinal or pope to sweep this crime under the rug. any of these men who knew that a crime was committed, and who learned this outside of the confessional, had a public duty to report the crime to the police and those who didnt should be prosecuted for it. when the church does its OWN investigation without bringing in the police it is engaging in a criminal conspiracy to protect the perpetrators.

It's the Church's authorities who are failing us, here, not the common believer. The pope and his cardinals judge homosexual adults' expressing their love for each other in a private and with consent as "sinful", while they do nothing to condemn the acts of the men who represent them and God(acts which, unlike mundane gays and lesbians, have nothing to do with love, are without the consent of the victims, and leave children scarred for life). Not only do they NOT condemn them, they give them a sort of tacit approval by trying to hide their deeds and protect those men.
Okay, I see your very valid points, in a hypothetical light, but the AVERAGE bishop, archbishop, cardinal, and especially the Pope likely has no idea whether Father Schmuck from Sintown Indiana has touched a little child. It's not the kind of thing that a priest, or ANY offender, is going to go around talking about outside of Confession, and I'm sure you all have heard the reports of the children who not only were too afraid to talk about it, but also repressed it until years down the road. Yes, the Church is to blame in instances that the priests are relocated and the new congregation not informed, but that's not always the case. At St. Patrick's, my grandparents' congregation, they just got a new priest who was acquitted of sexual abuse charges in the northern part of the USA, and the Dioces sent along a letter beforehand for the priest to read to the congregation (and then post) so they were all aware of the situation. The Church, in my opinion, is not to blame for "not reporting" the abuse if the only way they know about it is Confessional (like I said, common and likely), and in that case it's not even the responsibility of the Pope or, most of the time, the cardinals. At best, I'm pretty sure an Archbishop can request a change of location for a disgraced Father, as I know that's the case of requesting change of location for a Father who chooses to leave his current congregation.

Furthermore, how can you say that the Church doesn't condemn them? I'm not sure where you live, but in America there have been, to my knowledge, 67 defrockings to-date in coordination with this issue, at least 2 of which were before the trial even ended. When you compare those actions to the number of priests who actually stand accused, and the investigative process involved therein, I'd say Church officials aren't just standing around with their thumbs up their bums.

Lastly, don't think I'm trying to defend the actions of the few priests that have done this to children. I think it's disgusting and reprehensible. As a matter of fact, I went to court because one of the priests from my congregation (whom I've known all my life) was accused, and it turns out the accuser had done it for attention and admitted to that after wasting several thousand dollars and several days in court. I just hope that you guys can have a more tolerant understanding of the way it actually WORKS in the Church, rather than just continually spouting things like "The Pope is a jerk to let this continue!" when the Pope's certainly got more secretive, pressing issues on his reeeeeally old mind.[/rant]

"Yet more pedophile priests. LA this time"

Well ... it is LA, after all! :rolleyes:
That excuse only works for cheating on one's spouse, being hooked on cocaine, or getting drunk and crashing an expensive car into a tree.

In 1993, Democrat Mark Kramer, homosexual member of the Oregon Legislative Assembly, introduced a bill that would have allowed the state to take children from competent parents to award them to non-familial adults. The Oregon legislation did not require that parents be unfit, and would give children to anyone

"who has maintained an ongoing personal relationship with substantial continuity for at least one year, through interaction, companionship, interplay and mutuality. ... (Anyone) who has established emotional ties creating a child-parent relationship with a child may petition or file a motion for intervention with the court having jurisdiction over the custody, placement, guardianship or wardship of that child. ..."

Legalized pedophilia? Befriend the kid you want, and then have the state take the kid from their parents and give them to you?

Democrat?

I know! I would have guessed Republican too. :p

Jesus

That's debatable.