NationStates Jolt Archive

Or do Christianity and Islam have way more in common than most people think?

I mean, both Christianity and Islam agree that Jesus was the Messiah, where as Judaism doesn't, so why the hatred?

Or do Christianity and Islam have way more in common than most people think?

I mean, both Christianity and Islam agree that Jesus was the Messiah, where as Judaism doesn't, so why the hatred?

There is no Messiah in Islam. Jesus was a prophet, not worthy of worship. Nothing more. Islam, in practice, is much closer to Judaism.

Or do Christianity and Islam have way more in common than most people think?

Yes, they are both from the same origin. But the christian and muslim fundamentalist leaders tell their followers that the other is the evil enemy that will bring the apocalypse to justify their hostilities.

You are quite correct.


Interesting story, my Youth Group did a little study unit on other religions, and we had an Imam come to our church and speak to us. Christianity and Islam are basically the same religion, minus Christianity believing that Jesus was the Messiah , and Islam beleiving he was only a prophet.

Very enlightening.

There is no Messiah in Islam. Jesus was a prophet, not worthy of worship. Nothing more. Islam, in practice, is much closer to Judaism.

Really?

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary, Allah gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him; his name will be the Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.



I should point out right now that in no way am I religious.

minus Christianity believing that Jesus was the Messiah

That and the whole pork/hallal thing.

Or do Christianity and Islam have way more in common than most people think?

In order to answer that question we first have to determine if 'most people' know that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all faiths of the Book and their adherents are all (metaphorical) sons and daughters of Abraham.

Or do Christianity and Islam have way more in common than most people think?

I mean, both Christianity and Islam agree that Jesus was the Messiah, where as Judaism doesn't, so why the hatred?

Christianity and Islam do have a lot in common, but there is a pretty big difference between "Jesus the Prophet" and "Jesus the Son of God". Also, Christians get to drink wine and eat bacon. Hallelujah!

There's no issue between Roman Catholicism and Islam. Only Protestants and Islam.
The religion of Islam is inspired the words of God himself... and there can be no wrong in this.

Here's another:
To deny the truth of Islam is to deny the word of God

That and the whole pork/hallal thing.

In basic ideology, I mean.

There's no issue between Roman Catholicism and Islam. Only Protestants and Islam.

Oh I have absolutely no doubt that Christianity and Islam are essentially the same in their basics, but for the Christian belief that Jesus is the son of God.

Really?


Yes, really. It does say "his name shall be Messiah Jesus", but that doesn't make him any sort of saviour, just annointed.

There is no saviour in Islam. Masi'h means "annointed" (Greek: Christos). Kings and Priests were annointed to symbolize consecration into their offices.

In Islam, there is only Allah. No partner, no son, none other worthy of worship, none other can bring us salvation. We believe in the Virgin Birth and believe that Jesus's particulars made him "Muqarrabi" or a Prophet.

But, in the end, he was just a man.

Really?





I should point out right now that in no way am I religious.

The distinction here is that Messiah =/= son of God necessarily. A Messiah could be a prophet. All Messiah means is "savior" in the broader sense, though in Christianity, it specifically referrs to Jesus alone.

Also, Christians get to drink wine and eat bacon. Hallelujah!

That's ok ... we get to smoke pot. Allah Akhbar!!

Yes, really. It does say "his name shall be Messiah Jesus", but that doesn't make him any sort of saviour, just annointed.

There is no saviour in Islam. Masi'h means "annointed" (Greek: Christos). Kings and Priests were annointed to symbolize consecration into their offices.

In Islam, there is only Allah. No partner, no son, none other worthy of worship, none other can bring us salvation. We believe in the Virgin Birth and believe that Jesus's particulars made him "Muqarrabi" or a Prophet.

But, in the end, he was just a man.

Yup, he was just a man, and at no point does the Qur'an say he was the son of God, but the Qur'an does explicitly states that he was the Messiah, the saviour of the Jews. Not necessarily the son of God. My point is that Islam is far closer to Christianity than most people realise; both believe he was born of a virgin, and both believe he was the Jewish Messiah.

The distinction here is that Messiah =/= son of God necessarily.
I never said son of God. I said Messiah.

From what I can tell, the only difference between Islam and Christainity is Jesus's divinity.

Oh I have absolutely no doubt that Christianity and Islam are essentially the same in their basics, but for the Christian belief that Jesus is the son of God.
The main affinity is the belief in the "God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob". In which Judaism and Catholicism can agree as well.

That's ok ... we get to smoke pot. Allah Akhbar!!
Hell... I'm thinking of converting now...

Does all this matter?

All three religions are "of the Book".

The main affinity is the belief in the "God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob". In which Judaism and Catholicism can agree as well.
Yea, but the belief that Jesus was the Messiah is a pretty important part of Christianity, whereas Jews would deny that completely, and Islam would accept that. I am not talking about Jesus's divinity, merely his status as the Messiah.

Does all this matter?

All three religions are "of the Book".
Well, yea. In the vast scheme of things it matters a bit. The crazyness surrounding Christian fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism is a major problem.

Hell... I'm thinking of converting now...

Bacon and booze is a fair trade for pot. See ... we listened when Allah said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." (Gen 1:29)

Bacon and booze is a fair trade for pot. See ... we listened when Allah said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." (Gen 1:29)
WooooooooooooooooaH! No booze? This si tough one...

Yea, but the belief that Jesus was the Messiah is a pretty important part of Christianity, whereas Jews would deny that completely, and Islam would accept that. I am not talking about Jesus's divinity, merely his status as the Messiah.

True ... but the definition of "Messiah" is very different for all three.

The Jewish Messiah is not a divine creature, but a man who comes and unites, under the guidance of God, all of Israel.

The Christian Messiah is the one, true Son of God who could perform miracles and cast out devils and whatnot, sent by the Almighty to die for our sins.

The Muslim idea of any sort of Messiah follows in line with the Judaic ideaology, but isn't something we concern ourselves with.

WooooooooooooooooaH! No booze? This si tough one...

Yep ... if it doesn't come naturally from the earth, no touchy. In short, marijuana good, booze not good.

True ... but the definition of "Messiah" is very different for all three.

The Jewish Messiah is not a divine creature, but a man who comes and unites, under the guidance of God, all of Israel.

The Christian Messiah is the one, true Son of God who could perform miracles and cast out devils and whatnot, sent by the Almighty to die for our sins.

The Muslim idea of any sort of Messiah follows in line with the Judaic ideaology, but isn't something we concern ourselves with.

The orignial Christian idea of a Messiah was exactly the Jew idea; one who has come to unite and lead the Jews. All three agree on that. I had to go to a Methodist church for about 15 years, I went through confirmation etc., all I was taught was that Jesus was the Messiah and the son of God, born of a virgin, not that both the Messiah and the son of God were the same position, just that Jesus himself was both.

From what I can see, the main difference between Christianity and Islam is the difference in Jesus's divinity. Christians believe he was the son of God and born of a virgin and the Messiah, Muslims believe he was the Messiah and born of a virgin, but not the son of Allah.

Yep ... if it doesn't come naturally from the earth, no touchy. In short, marijuana good, booze not good.
I my mind, both = good ;)

I my mind, both = good ;)

Meh ... look at how many people are killed by drunk drivers, how many wives are beaten by drunken husbands, how many husbands are shot by drunken wives, how many children are beaten by drunken fathers ...

Worst a pot smoker ever did was murder a bag of chips. :D

Meh ... look at how many people are killed by drunk drivers, how many wives are beaten by drunken husbands, how many husbands are shot by drunken wives, how many children are beaten by drunken fathers ...

Worst a pot smoker ever did was murder a bag of chips. :D
Ok both in moderation are good ;)

Yep ... if it doesn't come naturally from the earth, no touchy. In short, marijuana good, booze not good.
Hmmmmm... that's a pickle of dilly. Where does Allyah stand on capicous amounts of chocolate?

From what I can see, the main difference between Christianity and Islam is the difference in Jesus's divinity.

Yep ... and from what I can see, we're in agreement. But, still, it's a nice conversation.

Methodist, eh? Not bad ... could've been worse. I find Methodists to be among the more pleasant and tolerant of the groups. The UMC near me had an "Islam and Christianity" Sunday recently.

I was the only Muslim who showed up, but to be fair, I'm the only Muslim in my town. I go to Mosque in another town. It was a lot of fun. They even made sure not to have any ham and whatnot and I had a lot of fun discussing the differences in how we view Jesus.

Only one small argument erupted and it was because someone pointed out several passages in the NT to me concerning Jesus's divinity and I pointed out that those were not Jesus's words, but the words of men, who are fallable and prone to exaggerate (especially if you know any Jews ... great story tellers ... hyperbole is not lost on them). It was a short lived little spat and we all agreed that the words of Paul or Peter did not carry the weight of the words of Jesus.

We also compared the stories of Jesus in Qur'an and the Gospels. Neat stuff.

Hmmmmm... that's a pickle of dilly. Where does Allyah stand on capicous amounts of chocolate?

Chocolate is ok, but remember, gluttony is still a no-no. So try to limit yourself to 5 lbs. a day. (you can do the metric conversion ... I'm lazy)

Chocolate is ok, but remember, gluttony is still a no-no. So try to limit yourself to 5 lbs. a day. (you can do the metric conversion ... I'm lazy)
lol. Well I get around the fact I'm the worst catholic on earth through weekly confessions. Is there a quick fix in Islam?

Chocolate is ok, but remember, gluttony is still a no-no. So try to limit yourself to 5 lbs. a day. (you can do the metric conversion ... I'm lazy)

Wondering... what makes alcohol more artificial than chocolate?

Yep ... if it doesn't come naturally from the earth, no touchy. In short, marijuana good, booze not good.
So would opium be okay, but not morphine or heroin? :p What about hashish vs. weed? And how about mead? Does that count as a no-no?

But you know Keruvalia... I just can't put down the pig. Oh, I just love eating pork. Ham. Bacon. It'll probably help shorten my lifespan, but I can't put it down, man. I like my pig.:D

lol. Well I get around the fact I'm the worst catholic on earth through weekly confessions. Is there a quick fix in Islam?

Every moment of every day is ample time for confession to Allah. Allah forgives, or doesn't. It's up to Allah. Just do your best and remember that Hell is reserved only for the truly evil.

Even lapsed Muslims have a place in Paradise.

Wondering... what makes alcohol more artificial than chocolate?

Distilled spirits is specifically mentioned in Qur'an. It also has to do with fermentation.

I've had some Muslims tell me that more natural brews like Mead and sanctified wines, such as Kosher wine, are ok in moderation. I suppose it all depends on how you look at it.

So would opium be okay, but not morphine or heroin? :p What about hashish vs. weed? And how about mead? Does that count as a no-no?

Well "hash" is Arabic, so it must be ok. ;) See above about Mead (though, personally, I don't like the stuff).

I like my pig.:D

Well that's ok. You're allowed to. :)

Distilled spirits is specifically mentioned in Qur'an. It also has to do with fermentation.

I've had some Muslims tell me that more natural brews like Mead and sanctified wines, such as Kosher wine, are ok in moderation. I suppose it all depends on how you look at it.

Hmm... well if you're not allowed to eat artificial stuff don't go to McDonalds.

Hmm... well if you're not allowed to eat artificial stuff don't go to McDonalds.

I don't.

Well "hash" is Arabic, so it must be ok.

Yeah, isn't it the source of the word "assassin"? (hashashiyun or something)

Yeah, isn't it the source of the word "assassin"? (hashashiyun or something)

Yep.

And your sig is wrong ... I have a damn fine understanding of science. :p Even graduated college and everything!

Yep ... and from what I can see, we're in agreement. But, still, it's a nice conversation.
Oh, ok, cool. I just wish most of the rest of the world would realise.

Methodist, eh? Not bad ... could've been worse. I find Methodists to be among the more pleasant and tolerant of the groups. The UMC near me had an "Islam and Christianity" Sunday recently.
Yea, my church had a weekly service between all the faiths (the Christian ones, Islam and Judiasm) purely worshiping God, and not mentioning Jesus. A pretty good thing considering NI's past.

I was the only Muslim who showed up, but to be fair, I'm the only Muslim in my town. I go to Mosque in another town. It was a lot of fun. They even made sure not to have any ham and whatnot and I had a lot of fun discussing the differences in how we view Jesus.

Only one small argument erupted and it was because someone pointed out several passages in the NT to me concerning Jesus's divinity and I pointed out that those were not Jesus's words, but the words of men, who are fallable and prone to exaggerate (especially if you know any Jews ... great story tellers ... hyperbole is not lost on them). It was a short lived little spat and we all agreed that the words of Paul or Peter did not carry the weight of the words of Jesus.

We also compared the stories of Jesus in Qur'an and the Gospels. Neat stuff.
That sounds pretty cool, I'm not religious at all, I'm an atheist, but it's always great when people of differing faiths can get along nicely.

Yep.

And your sig is wrong ... I have a damn fine understanding of science. :p Even graduated college and everything!

Hmm... but at some points you have to say "science is wrong" or "religion is wrong". And if you say that science is wrong, you are mistaking it for something that attempts to present truth. It's actually a means of finding the most accurate model for the universe as is possible. Of course, if you say the method is wrong, then fair enough, you're not misunderstanding it, just rejecting it. But if you say it is right, then you can't arbitrarily reject the model and say that your rejection is scientifically valid.

Hmm... but at some points you have to say "science is wrong" or "religion is wrong".

Not really. Yes, sometimes science is wrong. It happens. Data gets skewed or experiments become tainted, etc.

Religion, as interpreted by men, is also sometimes wrong.

Allah is never wrong. As we learn more and more about the Universe, we learn more and more about Allah's creation. We learn more and more about how Allah did it and more and more about how to repeat Allah's experiment.

It's what we were told to do. Why do you think all those Muslims were busy advancing leaps and bounds in medicine, astronomy, and physics while the Christian Europeans were warding their houses against goblins because two of their daughters got "the pox"?

Science and Allah are not mutually exclusive.

Hmm... but at some points you have to say "science is wrong" or "religion is wrong". And if you say that science is wrong, you are mistaking it for something that attempts to present truth. It's actually a means of finding the most accurate model for the universe as is possible. Of course, if you say the method is wrong, then fair enough, you're not misunderstanding it, just rejecting it. But if you say it is right, then you can't arbitrarily reject the model and say that your rejection is scientifically valid.
Not really true, science can fit round religion and vice versa.

Not really. Yes, sometimes science is wrong. It happens. Data gets skewed or experiments become tainted, etc.

Religion, as interpreted by men, is also sometimes wrong.

Allah is never wrong. As we learn more and more about the Universe, we learn more and more about Allah's creation. We learn more and more about how Allah did it and more and more about how to repeat Allah's experiment.

It's what we were told to do. Why do you think all those Muslims were busy advancing leaps and bounds in medicine, astronomy, and physics while the Christian Europeans were warding their houses against goblins because two of their daughters got "the pox"?

Science and Allah are not mutually exclusive.

OK, I'm not here to get into a religion vs. science or existence of God type debate, but one small point - religion involves believing things without having reason or evidence to back them up. That's not to say that the beliefs are wrong, but they are unscientific. Anyway, I've changed my signature to more accurately reflect what I was trying to convey. It was meant to be more of a trend than a rule.

Not really true, science can fit round religion and vice versa.

You basically have to have a cut off point for each to allow them to coincide. You have to say "no, science isn't allowed to theorise about that, it's religion territory. any scientific findings that contradict religion are automatically to be discarded".

That's not to say that the beliefs are wrong, but they are unscientific.

How do you know? 150 years ago, science could not have told you about DNA or atomic theory. It took time and progress.

What if, just on a maybe, the only reason belief in Allah doesn't look scientific yet is because it's still in the experimentation phase? We haven't reached true theory yet. Give it time. Maybe millions of years.

Or ... just go ask Deep Thought. :D

How do you know? 150 years ago, science could not have told you about DNA or atomic theory. It took time and progress.
Yes, and so 150 years ago, scientists just said "I don't know", not "I believe with certainty that traits are passed on by the soul" (or something).

What if, just on a maybe, the only reason belief in Allah doesn't look scientific yet is because it's still in the experimentation phase? We haven't reached true theory yet. Give it time. Maybe millions of years.

Or ... just go ask Deep Thought. :D

Well, it would at least be unscientific for me to claim that God exists, because I have not observed any phenomena for which the existence of God is the most logical explanation.

Yes, and so 150 years ago, scientists just said "I don't know", not "I believe with certainty that traits are passed on by the soul" (or something).

Ah ... maybe you need to brush up on Eugenics. Wildly popular and time tested scientific theory. ;)

Well, it would at least be unscientific for me to claim that God exists, because I have not observed any phenomena for which the existence of God is the most logical explanation.

Nod ... and that's ok. You're probably not meant to.

Ah ... maybe you need to brush up on Eugenics. Wildly popular and time tested scientific theory. ;)
All I know about eugenics is the idea of managing who should be allowed to breed; I didn't know it made any claims about how parents pass on traits to their children.

Nod ... and that's ok. You're probably not meant to.
Well, if there is a being incapable of mistakes, and capable of accomplishing any feat, I think its safe to say that it deliberately didnt reveal itself to me.

I think its safe to say that it deliberately didnt reveal itself to me.

That bastard!