NationStates Jolt Archive

One would think that a disaster of this magnitude will give a pause to the jihad.

But no. Terrorism is unabated and even worse, there are indications that terrorists are looking to hamper the relief efforts and use the diversion of the security forces to relief works as an opportunity to cause more mayhem.

I am disgusted.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshowbnews/1257980.cms
Terrorists kill 10 in Kashmir

JAMMU: Terrorists killed 10 people at three places in Rajouri district of Jammu and Kashmir on Sunday night, showing no change of heart despite a devastating earthquake having hit the state on Saturday.

While terrorists massacred five members of two Hindu families in Rajnagar in the Budhal area, four Hindus were killed in Gabbar village and one Muslim in Kulhar village.

Police said terrorists barged into two homes in Rajnagar village in Budhal, about 200 km north of Jammu, around 11 p.m. on Sunday, took hold of the inmates and killed them with sharp-edged weapons.

Budhal is the worst-hit area in Saturday's earthquake in which about 100 houses collapsed and 20 people sustained injuries.

Budhal, as noted above is much damaged in the earthquake.

What is more barbaric is the manner of the killing. They had their throat slit in halal fashion.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1514605,000900010002.htm
A group of terrorists entered the residence of one Munshi Ram in Kandi village of Bhudal tehsil, had food and then killed the inmates by slitting their throats, police said

More terrorists

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1515233,000900010002.htm
LeT terrorist among 3 killed in Jammu & Kashmir

Three persons, including a terrorist of Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba outfit and a young woman, were killed and another girl injured in Jammu and Kashmir since Sunday night, a police spokesman said on Monday.

Farooq Ahmad Piswal, a terrorist belonging to LeT, was killed in an encounter with security forces at village Mujpathri in Pulwama district of south Kashmir early today, the spokesman said.

He said an AK rifle, a magazine and 27 rounds were recovered from slain terrorist.

Terrorists intruded into the house of one Rashid Rather at Panzat village of Qazigund in Anantnag district and shot dead his 19-year-old daughter Jasi Jan on Sunday night, the spokesman said.

Another group of terrorists entered the house of one Ghulam Rasool Bhat at Aroo-Mohanpora in Kulgam area of Anantnag on Sunday night and resorted to indiscriminate firing on the inmates, the spokesman said.

Bhat's son Nissar Ahmad was killed and he himself alongwith daughter Rohi Jan was critically injured, he added.


Here they are sabotaging relief works

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1259113.cms
Militants sabotage relief works
NEW DELHI: There has been no letup in terrorist activity in Jammu and Kashmir despite the earthquake on Saturday. This was evident from the continued recoveries of piles of arms and ammunition on the one hand, and, the unabated violence by terrorists since Saturday when the tragedy struck people on both sides of the Line of Control.

"What is worse is that terrorists are trying to obstruct relief activities being carried out by the security forces and para-military forces in far flung areas of the state," a senior official said.

He said terrorists did not want security personnel to get popular with the people. Thus they were attacking local people whom they suspected of assisting security persons in the relief work.

The recovery of 100 kg of RDX from a truck carrying sheep is a clear indication of terrorist's determination on their ‘jehadi' agenda. This seizure was apart from the numerous other smaller recoveries by security personnel across the state.

When the truck driver B A Malik and co-driver, Mohammad Iqbal, were interrogated, they disclosed that they had been asked by an agent in Delhi to deliver the consignment of four "ghee" cans to one Gulam Mohammad Rather of Qazigund in J&K. The cans contained RDX.

On Monday morning, terrorists killed in cold blood ten members of two families by slitting their throats and decamping with food and other valuables in Rajouri district close to the border. The terrorists are reported to be from the Pakistan-based Hizbul Mujahideen.

Thereafter, terrorists targeted the house of one Kartar Singh of Mohra Gabbar village in the same tehsil. They killed at least five members of this family and injured others and decamped with valuables.

Before escaping they warned local residents against giving any clue to the security forces, sources said. Security experts said they did not expect any humanitarian concern from terrorist towards the common people of Jammu and Kashmir.

Attack on a political leader

http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1516241,000900010002.htm
Senior Congress leader escapes bid on life, driver killed

Senior Congress leader and municipal councillor from Shopian Mohd Shafi Bhandey on Tuesday escaped a bid on his life when terrorists attacked his motorcade in Pulwama district of Jammu and Kashmir killing his driver and seriously injuring his security guard, official sources said.

A group of terrorists fired indiscriminately on Bhandey's vehicle at Gaberpora village at around 12:15 hours when he was on his way to Srinagar, the sources said.

While Bhandey escaped unhurt, his driver Mohammad Iqbal and personal security officer Bashir Ahmad were critically injured in the attack, they said adding Iqbal later succumbed to injuries in hospital.

Security forces sealed the entire area soon after the firing and a hunt was launched to nab the terrorists involved in the attack.

No terrorist outfit has so far claimed responsibility for the attack.

Infiltration is still going on, using this diversion.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=328188


Infiltration bid foiled, eight Pak ultras killed
SRINAGAR, OCT 11 (PTI)

Eight Pakistani militants were killed by the army today as it foiled a second infiltration bid from across the border since the killer earthquake struck Jammu and Kashmir on October eight, a defence spokesman said.

The militants, trying to sneak into the valley, were killed in Nowgam sector of Kupwara district in a fierce gunbattle which erupted last night and was continuing till this morning, the spokesman said.

Five AK assault rifles, two pistols and a large quantity of ammunition and explosives were recovered from the killed ultras, the spokesman said.

He said the operation in the sector was still continuing and further details are awaited.

The spokesman said troops guarding the Line of Control (LOC) observed the infiltrating group last evening and reacting quickly laying several ambushes.

This was the second unsuccessful attempt by militants to sneak into the valley since the devastating earthquake struck the state four days ago.

Eight militants were killed by the troops in Gulmarg sector of Baramulla district on Saturday, the day the tremor struck Uri and Tangdhar sectors. A jawan also laid down his life and three others injured in the encounter.

The militants are apparently trying to take advantage of the current situation and push in as many militants as armed forces and civil administration are engaged in rescue and relief operations in the state, the defence sources said.

I make the same appeal again. Please be wary of whom you are giving charity to. Please donate only to international agencies like Redcross or Oxfam (which are doing relief work admirably in Pakistan) so as to avoid inadvertantly funding terrorism.

Many terrorist orgs were hard hit and they will be looking to capitalise on this occasion to make money through charity to rebuild and renew the jihad.

One would think that a disaster of this magnitude will give a pause to the jihad.

But no. Terrorism is unabated and even worse, there are indications that terrorists are looking to hamper the relief efforts and use the diversion of the security forces to relief works as an opportunity to cause more mayhem.


It's ok. Right now, while they're trying to lift concrete blocks off their relatives with their bare hands, the skies have opened up and they are now suffering from torrential rain and hailstorms.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051011/D8D5SRTO4.html

MUZAFFARABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Heavy rain and hail forced the cancellation of some relief flights to earthquake-stricken regions Tuesday and survivors scuffled over the badly needed food - the first large-scale aid to make it overland to this devastated city. Officials estimated that the death toll would surpass 35,000.

This is unbelievable. :mad: The Paki army men refuse to rescue a trapped survivor despite pleas by the family members.

BBC's Nick Bryant was reporting live from Balakot, Pakistan, when this happened.

I am sure that for every dollar that goes into Pakistani army (the army IS the govt) not even a penny would go to the hapless victims. These heartless f***ers would swallow everything and give money to the jihadi orgs to reestablish.

listen to the audio file hosted here
http://rapidshare.de/files/6128565/NickBryant-BBC-AsiaToday2005-10-10.wav.html

I am disgusted.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshowbnews/1257980.cms

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1514605,000900010002.htm


More terrorists

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1515233,000900010002.htm


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1259113.cms

http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_1516241,000900010002.htm

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=328188

These Indian sources are Unbiased....95% of the time...except when they talk about Pakistan.The same way Pakistani sources are very Biased about this conflict...

The same way I used to avoid US or Arab sources for the Iraq...I shall dismiss any war parties "media" ....when they cover their struggle.

These Indian sources are Unbiased....95% of the time...except when they talk about Pakistan.The same way Pakistani sources are very Biased about this conflict...

The same way I used to avoid US or Arab sources for the Iraq...I shall dismiss any parties "media" regarding the India-Pakistan struggle.

Ocean, you'll notice my story was the AP.

IMHO, God is f-ing those jihadis really hard.

These Indian sources are Unbiased....95% of the time...except when they talk about Pakistan.The same way Pakistani sources are very Biased about this conflict...

The same way I used to avoid US or Arab sources for the Iraq...I shall dismiss any parties "media" regarding the India-Pakistan struggle.
I get the feeling that anything that doesn't portray any group of Muslim people as sinless and perfect long suffering victims is going to seem biased to you.

Ocean, you'll notice my story was the AP.

IMHO, God is f-ing those jihadis really hard.When its about the India-VS-Pakistan conflict...I trust more these sources

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=19189

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20051010-114247-2190r

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051010/ap_on_re_as/quake_kashmir

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2005-daily/11-10-2005/main/main10.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/south_asia/4327008.stm

then tell me what is wrong with this sources...

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=19189

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20051010-114247-2190r

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051010/ap_on_re_as/quake_kashmir

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2005-daily/11-10-2005/main/main10.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/south_asia/4327008.stm

You have a pakistan source in there. You said you wouldn't consider a source that was a party to the conflict. That rules out the Pakistan source.

The hailstorm was even news on the Weather Channel today. Kind of hard to say that a satellite radar image is biased.

So it's hailing on their jihadi asses - after the earthquake killed over 30,000 to 40,000 (or more) in their very location. Not a lot of argument over the casualties - they're bad. Even the Pak government says it doesn't have enough helicopters.

Go ahead - paint us a rosy picture of how Kashmir, the center of jihadi violence in the area, was unaffected by the earthquake.

I get the feeling that anything that doesn't portray any group of Muslim people as sinless and perfect long suffering victims is going to seem biased to you.In what part of your body do you get that feeling? :D :fluffle: :D :D

You have a pakistan source in there. You said you wouldn't consider a source that was a party to the conflict. That rules out the Pakistan source.My mistake ...count it out.

You still have 4/5 including the BBC and Yahoo.

BTW which one is Pakistani? (so I know better)

You have a pakistan source in there. You said you wouldn't consider a source that was a party to the conflict. That rules out the Pakistan source.

The hailstorm was even news on the Weather Channel today. Kind of hard to say that a satellite radar image is biased.

So it's hailing on their jihadi asses - after the earthquake killed over 30,000 to 40,000 (or more) in their very location. Not a lot of argument over the casualties - they're bad. Even the Pak government says it doesn't have enough helicopters.

Go ahead - paint us a rosy picture of how Kashmir, the center of jihadi violence in the area, was unaffected by the earthquake.I have difficulty understanding your post...

Are you trying to say "God stroke at the Muslim Activists"?

My mistake ...count it out.

You still have 4/5 including the BBC and Yahoo.

BTW which one is Pakistani? (so I know better)

The one with the domain name that ends in ".pk"

Still, you don't have any news stories that say there are no hailstorms. Nor do you have any stories that say that they haven't taken massive casualties.

It looks like the place where the jihadis live took tens of thousands of casualties.

I have difficulty understanding your post...

Are you trying to say "God stroke at the Muslim Activists"?

Nope. Just saying that if they are the kind of people who believe that nothing happens unless God wills it (and that's one of the defining beliefs of a Muslim, and the people in the Pakistan-controlled Kashmir area are Muslims), then they have to think that God is f-ing them hard right now.

Still, you don't have any news stories that say there are no hailstorms. Nor do you have any stories that say that they haven't taken massive casualties.

It looks like the place where the jihadis live took tens of thousands of casualties.WTF???

use the Quote function...and prove I ever negated the Quake and the resulting massive Human loss

If we are discounting media from parties involved in the country, then we should discount sources from UK and the US.

UK has been a party to the conflict. It was involved in the creation of Pakistan and the creation of the Kashmir conflict. That discounts BBC.

US is also a party to the conflict. It was involved in the sustenance of Pakistan as a state and the sustenance of the Kashmir conflict as a result. That discounts US media.

Let's talk about sources from..umm..say..Burkino Farso maybe?

.... then they have to think that God is f-ing them hard right now.unlike you I do NOT have mind reading powers...so I will not attempt to guess what are they "thinking" in these very moment.

Nope. Just saying that if they are the kind of people who believe that nothing happens unless God wills it (and that's one of the defining beliefs of a Muslim, and the people in the Pakistan-controlled Kashmir area are Muslims), then they have to think that God is f-ing them hard right now.
Which will only strengthen their resolve to remove Musharraf and install an islamist government in his place. "God is punishing us because Musharraf is helping the great satan"

If we are discounting media from parties involved in the country, then we should discount sources from UK and the US.

UK has been a party to the conflict. It was involved in the creation of Pakistan and the creation of the Kashmir conflict. That discounts BBC.

US is also a party to the conflict. It was involved in the sustenance of Pakistan as a state and the sustenance of the Kashmir conflict as a result. That discounts US media.

Let's talk about sources from..umm..say..Burkino Farso maybe?#1) Most of Coutries in the World have never been involved in the Kashemer...

#2)...UK and US are now very neutral...have been for decades. (so they say)

#1) Most of Coutries in the World have never been involved in the Kashemer...

#2)...UK and US are now very neutral...have been for decades. (so they say)

While they may be neutral on the idea of whose land it is, the US and UK are not neutral on the idea of Islamic militants in the Kashmir region.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42242
A Muslim Saudi professor says the earthquake and tsunami in south Asia were punishment from Allah for homosexuality and fornication committed by residents and visitors of affected countries at Christmastime.

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20050109-102911-9121r.htm
Saudi cleric Muhammad Al-Munajiid explained God's tsunami punishment of Christians stemmed from "the Christian holidays [that] are accompanied by forbidden things, by immorality, abomination, adultery, alcohol, drunken dancing and revelry. A belly dancer costs 2,500 pounds a minute and a singer costs 50,000 pounds an hour, and they hop from one hotel to another from night to dawn.
"Then they spend the entire night defying Allah. ... At the height of immorality, Allah took revenge on these criminals. ... Allah struck them with an earthquake. He finished off the Richter scale. All nine levels gone."
In the same vein, Sheikh Mudeiris, at a Palestinian Friday sermon in Gaza, said, "When oppression and corruption increase, the law of equilibrium applies. I can see in your eyes you are wondering what is the 'universal law of equilibrium.' This law is a divine law. If people are remiss in implementing God's law and in being zealous and vengeful for His sake, Allah unleashes his soldiers in action to take revenge."

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Tsunami_Disaster/0,,2-10-1777_1645055,00.html
Colombo - God signed His name in the tsunami that battered Sri Lanka and other countries on December 26, and sent it as punishment because humans have been ignoring His laws, Sri Lankan Muslims say.

Proof, according to Mohamed Faizeen, manager of the Centre for Islamic Studies in Colombo, is a satellite picture taken seconds after the tsunami smashed into Sri Lanka's west coast near the town of Kalutara and as it was receding.

"This clearly spells out the name 'Allah' in Arabic," Faizeen said, pointing to the shape of the waves - a gigantic "E" complete with whorls and sidewaves that do indeed appear to combine to resemble the Arabic script for the name "Allah".

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/1/205639.shtml
In reaction to Hurricane Katrina and the destruction in its wake, a high-ranking Kuwaiti official, Muhammad Yousef Al-Mlaifi, who is director of the Kuwaiti Ministry of Endowment's research center, published an article titled "The Terrorist Katrina is One of the Soldiers of Allah, But Not an Adherent of Al-Qaeda."

#1) Most of Coutries in the World have never been involved in the Kashemer...

#2)...UK and US are now very neutral...have been for decades. (so they say)

Like I said, UK and US have definitely been not neutral.

US called it terrorism just after they were hit in 9/11. Before that they were the "freedom fighters".

UK now calls the orgs operating in Kashmir as terrorists, after a Lashkar-e-Toiba trained terrorist, Shehzad Tanweer, bombed their asses in London.

Why the eff should I take the media from those countries as "neutral" over the sources from media of India who I quoted above, who I know have been professional in their reporting all my life ?

How come somebody who sits in NY and mouths off, using unverified sources, is more credible from an Indian reported who reports from the ground, whose news outlet, I know have been very professional?

Indian media is way more independant than the much touted US media.

Like I said, UK and US have definitely been not neutral.

US called it terrorism just after they were hit in 9/11. Before that they were the "freedom fighters".

UK now calls the orgs operating in Kashmir as terrorists, after a Lashkar-e-Toiba trained terrorist, Shehzad Tanweer, bombed their asses in London.

Why the eff should I take the media from those countries as "neutral" over the sources from media of India who I quoted above, who I know have been professional in their reporting all my life ?

How come somebody who sits in NY and mouths off, using unverified sources, is more credible from an Indian reported who reports from the ground, whose news outlet, I know have been very professional?

Indian media is way more independant than the much touted US media.


Indian media is also much closer to the source (Kashmir), and has more correspondents who speak local languages.

Indian media is way more independant than the much touted US media.depends on the conflict...

US-vs-Iraq conflict?......or India-VS-Pakistan conflict?

Let's see what the foreign-oh-so-neutral media reports

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-10-10-voa47.cfm

It claims this "A trusted source of news
and information since 1942" at the website.

But let's see what they are reporting.

By Patricia Nunan
Srinigar, India


Now this Nunan lady has not left her hotel in Delhi but she and the paper has no shame in adding the byline as "Srinigar" (btw, that's Srinagar, they did not even check the spelling, such is the urgency to do psyops).

She reports that the Indian govt has done nothing while the photo in the report shows an army bulldozer clearing the road. The reporter does not realise that all the bulldozers is from BRO - an Indian Army outfit.

To realise that she would have to get off her behind from Delhi and go to the area to report.

http://www.voanews.com/english/images/Nunan-Bulldozers_Clearing_Access_to_Blocked_Villages_in_Quake_Zone.jpg

Overall BS.

The fact is that the Indian army has performed admirably.

http://www.ndtv.com/environment/Earthquake.asp?id=79831&callid=1
No time to mourn

The men don't even have the time to grieve for the 12 soldiers believed to have died after an army post collapsed in Tangdhar, just one kilometer from the Line of Control.

Soldiers just race to save the women and children being brought down from the upper villages. But as the days pass, their own dead ironically may never be retrieved or returned to families.

A helicopter lands with an injured villager almost every 10 minutes in Tangdhar.

But with the focus of the army being firmly on rescuing lives, in many cases the body of soldiers who have died cannot be recovered or ferried back to their home.

When asked if there was chance of soldiers surviving at the forward post in Tangdhar, Brigade Commander Brigadier S S Jog said, "We've got no positive news. But we are still hoping."

First priority

And it is clear that even in a state where the local population does not always like them, they are still priority number one.

"The civilians are our number one priority," said Air Marshal A K Singh, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief.

But from 200 km away in Uri comes the tale of survival. Thirty-five-year-old soldier Ratan Mukhia was able to make his way down from a forward post 48 hours after the quake.

But his wife and eight-year-old son back home in Darjeeling still do not know that he is alive. He has not even been able to speak with them on the phone.

"I had asked my friend to call home and inform my family. I don't even know if they are aware that I am alive or not," said Mukhia.

In a state where the relationship between the armed forces and the ordinary Kashmiri has often been hostile, this could be the turning point with relief operations having fallen entirely on the shoulders of the IAF and the army.

Perhaps this tragedy will help in breaking down the proverbial war between civilians and the military in the Kashmiri Valley.

It makes my blood boil to see the "neutral" foreign media mouthing off inanities and doing the usual psyops.

Neutral, my foot.

depends on the conflict...

US-vs-Iraq conflict?......or India-VS-Pakistan conflict?

Both.

There is absolutely no govt control over the media in India. This is a huge country with a billion plus population with numerous media outlets. There are more new media outlets in India than any other country. It would be impossible to control them, even if the govt attempted to.

Comparisions to Pakistani media and saying that just like their media, the Indian media must also be biased is very stupid.

Comparisions to Pakistani media and saying that just like their media, the Indian media must also be biased is very stupid.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Oh, btw, she also uses these terms

"Indian-held Kashmir" and "Pakistani city of Muzaffarabad"

Let me explain. For her, the state of Kashmir is "Indian-held".

But the city of Muzaffarabad, which is in Pakistani occupied Kashmir, is already a Pakistani city !

Like I said, distance does not automatically mean neutrality while being a party does not mean bias.

Often times it is the opposite and it is your own conditioning that makes you think like that.

Gee, what a surprise. Widespread damage, loss of life and the disruption of order and people continue to act like dicks.

Ah humanity. You've got to hand it to us. We keep being us.

IMHO, God is f-ing those jihadis really hard.:rolleyes:

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story1%2Etxt&counter_img=1?headline=Jihadis~make~most~of~redeployed~Army
Jihadis make most of redeployed Army

Even as lakhs of earthquake-hit people in Jammu & Kashmir are trying to get back to normal life, the terrorists are taking advantage of the situation to infiltrate into the Valley.

The Indian Army has foiled two major bids in the last four days since the earthquake and killed 16 infiltrators and recovered a huge quantity of RDX [100 kilos as per another report]being smuggled in to blow convoys carrying relief materials on the Jammu-Srinagar highway.

Operational commanders are a worried lot as terrorists are making efforts to escalate violence while the attention of the security forces remains diverted on two fronts - setting its own devastated house in order and offering relief in the region to the affected people.

The Army has got only a month or so to rebuild its bunkers and pickets on the Line of Control (LOC) which were flattened by the earthquake. Any delay will hamper the reconstruction work owing to heavy snows that begin to pile up from November-end.

The apprehensions of the Army commanders over terrorists' activities are supported by events on ground. Eight militants were killed on Tuesday when they were tried to sneak into the Nowgam sector of Kupwara district. Five AK assault rifles, two pistols and a large quantity of ammunition and explosives were recovered from the killed terrorists, a defence spokesperson said, adding the operation in the sector was still continuing.

This was the second unsuccessful attempt by militants to sneak into the Valley since the devastating earthquake struck the state four days ago. Eight militants were killed by the troops in Gulmarg sector of Baramulla district on Saturday, the day the earthquake struck the adjacent Uri and Tangdhar sectors.

Officials feel the militants are apparently trying to take advantage of the current situation and are trying to push in as many militants taking advantage of the fact that the armed forces and the civil administration are engaged in rescue and relief operations.

Given this background, the commanders are keen to repair the damaged bunkers and pickets as most of the infrastructure is located along the 150-km-long LOC stretch between Uri and Tangdhar.

Moreover, reports indicate that anti-infiltration fencing along the LOC is also partially damaged though officials denied it. It may be mentioned here the installation of fence, backed by thermal imagers and detection sensors a year back, has brought down the rate of infiltration by about 80 per cent.

Oh Oceandrive, btw, Pioneer is one of the oldest news institutions in India and was the stomping grounds of Rudyard Kipling.

CNN's "Situation Room" right now is showing India, Pakistan and Kashmir on the map as three different nations.

neutral...lol..

Let's examine another case.

Mattew Rosenberg, Associated Press Writer, writes.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/11/D8D5KBE81.html

One Indian civilian official said the military _ which has between 500,000 and 700,000 troops in Kashmir to quell a Muslim separatist insurgency _ was focusing on caring for its own.

The official, who asked not to be identified for fear of retribution, said that in one army hospital in Uri, soldiers and their families were getting priority over civilian victims.


Utter BS. Every other report indicates that the Army is doing a stellar job. One particular report I quoted above tells us that an injured soldier walked his way back from his destroyed post while his command knew that the post was affected but were involved in rescuing civilians instead of rescuing their comrades and colleagues.

The reason for this can be found here.

Associated Press reporter Mujtaba Ali Ahmad in Srinagar, India, contributed to this report.

Shall we discount this report by the AP because a muslim (who is a part to the dispute) is involved in this?

That seems to be what you are advocating.

The correct way would be in seeing how his claims stand up with other reports. What is the past history of Mathew Rosenberg's reporting. What is past history of Mujtaba Ali. What is the angle that they are projecting here. What are the sources that they are claiming and how reputable and verifiable the claimed sources are.

In this case, Mujtaba Ali is a known JKLF sympathiser and indeed there is a positive psyops piece projecting Yasin Malik , the chief of JKLF, in a positive way and not as the terrorist scumbag that he is.

Mathew Rosenberg has been known to write pieces of the same, highlighting anti-Indian (specifically anti-hindu) pieces, in a non-professional way.

The point I wish to make is that just because the news is Indian does not automatically make it false (or true for that matter). One has to go by past history of the media, the past history of the reporter, how other news pieces report the same event, etc.

Your claiming that because US/UK is not involved in the conflict and hence somehow they are neutral is stupid. US/UK administration are indeed parties to the conflict.

Simply painting everything with a broad stroke does not cut it.

CNN's "Situation Room" right now is showing India, Pakistan and Kashmir on the map as three different nations.

neutral...lol..

Let's examine another case.

Mattew Rosenberg, Associated Press Writer, writes.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/11/D8D5KBE81.html

Shall we discount this report by the AP because a muslim (who is a part to the dispute) is involved in this?
Yes you should take into account...if he is a Muslim...

I know I do take it into account...If he is a Muslim...

BTW...how can you tell he is a Muslim?

Mujtaba Ali Ahmad, the guy who "contributed" to this report is a muslim and is known to be sympathetic to JKLF, a former terrorist org (now a political party but they cannot contest election..it's a long story. will tell their pathetic story some other time)

Mathew Rosenberg, the AP reporter, is not in the area at all, but lends his name to the article which is essentially written by Mujtaba Ali Ahmad.

But somehow this report becomes credible because it is carried by AP with a christian reporter name attached to it while the news from an Indian reporter (who might be a hindu or muslim or whatever) who is reporting from the scene is automatically biased.

Let me show you another report which runs totally contrary to Mathew Rosenberg's report slandering the army's relief effort

This is from Indian express, a very credible and reputable newspaper, which famously and defiantly ran reports against Indira Gandhi herself exposing her corruption during the emergency period of India leading to her downfall in the ensuing elections.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=79840
All in an Army’s day: watching friends die, reaching out to living

72 hrs & waiting

QUAKE: Army works overtime but rain & snow now strike back

MUZAMIL JALEEL

Hav Yoginder Malik found his way out 48 hrs after bunker collapseNear KAMAN POST (LoC), OCTOBER 11

Express spends the day with soldiers near Kaman post

Havaldar Yoginder Malik is injured everywhere. One foot is fractured, another has a deep wound and a large bloodstain is visible through several layers of bandage. A platoon commander of Border Security Force’s Dullanja post right at the Line of Control, it took Malik two days to claw through the earth and the stones to emerge alive.

He says the quake turned the bunker into a death trap. Then he starts crying. ‘‘I saw two of my colleagues die. I thought this is the end. The faces of my two children were in front of my eyes.’’

Those eyes are now counting themselves lucky. For, perched on a hilltop not far from the devastated Dullanja post across the Jhelum is a Gurkha Rifles post. Along with its 20 soldiers, it fell 2000 feet down, straight into the river. Until this afternoon, not one of the dead have been recovered. No one’s looking—there is simply no time.

Preoccupied by a massive rescue and relief effort, the Army here has just one priority: saving lives. And survivors in at least a dozen villages, stranded and devastated, have countless anecdotes to tell.

Of how choppers are making dozens of sorties to the helipad at Udoosa—the last village on the Line of Control—to transport the seriously injured to Uri and Srinagar.

Of how an Army doctor, Lt Bidhan Chandar, treks for an hour every morning up in the hills to Guvalta, a severely hit village. How he has set up a medical camp and has treated more than 500 villagers in the last two days. ‘‘There is such a rush that it seems no villager has escaped unhurt,’’ Chander says. He has to walk down to stay in a small hut at Udoosa because ‘‘there is nowhere to spend nights in Guvalta.’’

The 7 Dogra, a regiment deployed along the LoC, has suffered huge losses. Their bunkers lie in ruins. But the soldiers say they have no time to mourn. ‘‘There is so much sadness here. And helping the villagers has kept us so busy that we can’t even think of who we have lost,’’ says a jawan, who introduced himself as Yogesh. ‘‘Our company lost four. There were 15 injured.’’

He recalls how an injured woman was crying in pain. ‘‘She asked for water. There was none. So I took her to the stream and put a few drops into her mouth but she died,’’ says Yogesh. ‘‘When I returned to the bunker, my colleagues were writhing in pain.’’

Barely a metre away, Captain A S Alok is giving details of the day’s relief work and there’s not a single mention of help going to a colleague. It’s all about blankets and rations for the villagers.

Capt. Alok’s expression has a deceptive calm given that he had two near-miracle escapes. ‘‘I can’t even express what happened. I was on my way to Chakus village up in the hills. Suddenly, the mountains trembled. It was as if our vehicle was being tossed on a springboard...I saw Guvalta village crumble in front of my eyes. I saw our own bunkers getting crushed under mounds of earth. It was hell.’’

Standing next to him is another officer, Major Rajesh R of 56 Rashtriya Rifles. ‘‘The mountains began to move and there was a storm of dust. For half hour, I could see nothing, not even the man next to me,’’ he recalls. ‘‘We don’t think of anything now. We are just thankful that the earth beneath our feet is not moving.’’

Captain Alok had another close shave when he went on an impossible trek to reach his colleagues trapped beneath the rubble in Kaman Post that stands right next to the Aman Setu. ‘‘There were landslides everywhere as I walked. But I had to go and see my boys,’’ he says. ‘‘Kaman Post is in shambles. Everything is shambles.’’

He doesn’t talk of how many of his men have perished there but he constantly mentions Shabir, a local porter, who was buried alive near the post. ‘‘I have no words to console his (Shabir’s) mother. She came twice looking for her son,’’ he says. ‘‘She can’t believe her son is dead and I don’t know how to tell her.’’ The troops call Capt. Alok as the ‘‘Tiger of Kaman’’—he was the one who walked to the post as the rocks rained around him.

‘‘The post of 1/9 GR (Garhwal Rifles) came down in front of my eyes,’’ he recalls, looking ahead where the bodies of Border Road labourers are still being dug out.

The report is by a muslim. I can tell it is not biased because of the past history of the paper and the reporter and I can corroborate it with the reports coming in from other news outlets and the anecdotes from a couple of friends in the area and blogs etc. The story of the soldier who walked with an injured leg for two days was quoted earlier by me in this thread by another news media. The fact that the army is not looking out for its own, even those who might have survived, and is working only for civilian relief is very clear from many sources.

Mathew Rosenberg of the western media, OTOH, is assumed to be neutral, when in fact, it is his report that is biased and politically motivated.

In fact, very few of the western media call the situation for what it is. It is always written as "2 people dead, India claims Pakistani backed infiltration while Pakistan claims that it is only providing moral and diplomatic support..blah blah..India accuses Pakistan of running terrorist training camps while Pakistan strongle denies presence of any camps blah blah.."

It is this same BS over and over again in the "neutral" western media.

It is very amusing for the same media to be reporting destruction of these non-existant training camps.

Allah sure has a sense of humor.

Here's another piece of the so-called neutrality of western media regarding Kashmir..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/naturaldisasters/story/0,7369,1589652,00.html
Muzaffarabad, the ruined capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir

Indian-controlled Kashmir

Bismillah !

Pakistan administers while India controls.

It makes my blood boil to see the "neutral" foreign media mouthing off inanities and doing the usual psyops.your Indian blood is boiling?

its called Nationalism.

dont worry about it...It happens in the best families...

News from a Pakistani newspaper

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005\10\12\story_12-10-2005_pg7_48
70 Lashkar militants killed in quake

KARACHI: Approximately 70 militants of the outlawed group Lashkar-e-Tayyaba died in the massive earthquake which struck Pakistan and part of Kashmir on October 8, a party leader said on Tuesday.

The guerrillas from the Pakistan-based Lashkar, now known as the Jamaat-ud-Daawa, died in Muzaffarabad after the 7.6-scale quake struck the region.

A leader of the underground outfit, Maulana Abdul Aziz Alvi, said that the group had taken a severe blow. “This casualty figure may cross 100 and even more, as we have no information about those killed in other areas of Muzaffarabad,” he said.

The group members who survived the earthquake were attending funerals after every two to three hours, he said, while the Jamaat’s religious schools and mosques had been razed to the ground. More than a dozen members died when the roof of the party office collapsed during a meeting, he said. “People are in desperate need of tents, blankets, medicine and water,” he said, criticising the government its slow response. A Jamaat spokesman in Lahore said that party chief Hafiz Saeed was not in the region at the time of the quake and was still alive. “The Jamaat has a strong following in all the earthquake-hit areas. Saeed is safe and well,” spokesman Yahya Mujahid said. “It’s time to do jihad (holy war) of a different nature, by helping people in this hour of need. The Jamaat teams are working day and night,” he said. afp

But, according to Musharraf, there are no camps in Pakistan, right?

How can non-existant terrorists die due to the destruction of the non-existant camps?

Btw, note the jihad call. By calling people for another nature of jihad now (helping people) he essentially says what he and his people were doing before. Killing hindus and muslims who are not muslim enough.

your Indian blood is boiling?

its called Nationalism.

dont worry about it...It happens in the best families...

No, it boils when I see innocents (of any religion/race/nation/color/creed/whatever) die anywhere.

No, it boils when I see innocents (of any religion/race/nation/color/creed/whatever) die anywhere.Riiiiigth....

I can tell by the way you created this Thread...to share your Grief about the Tens-of-Thousands innocents that just died in Kashmir...[/sarcasm]

your thread cannot be seen as nationalistic Propaganda [/sarcasm]

your Indian blood is boiling?

its called Nationalism.

dont worry about it...It happens in the best families...Riiiiigth....

I can tell by the way you created this Thread...to share your Grief about the Tens-of-Thousands innocents that just died in Kashmir...[/sarcasm]

your thread cannot be seen as nationalistic Propaganda [/sarcasm]

Translation...
(Nationalist posts)
I can understand your Nationalism...I don't like it but I can tolerate it...

(your last post)
BUT... I despise...I hate Hypocrisy.

Meh. The thread started out as a note to the many who would be thinking of donating to the relief effort.

FYI, I have donated to the relief effort, both on the Indian side and the Paki side, fully well knowing that a good portion of the survivors on the paki side suport killing me in their jihad.

You are thinking too much of yourself and your supposed neutrality which somehow makes you think you are better than many here.

nationalistic Propaganda


Propoganda means spreading falsehood.

You are accusing me of a liar.

Prove it.

Meh. The thread started out as a note to the many who would be thinking of donating to the relief effort.I guess your message is to discourage us to donate...cos the Pakistani Gov is Corrupted...

BTW I do think the Pakistan Gov is indeed more corrupted than the Indian Gov..

But somehow this report becomes credible because it is carried by AP with a christian reporter name attached to it while the news from an Indian reporter (who might be a hindu or muslim or whatever) who is reporting from the scene is automatically biased.


I hate to nitpick here, but "Rosenberg" isn't exactly a traditional Christian name. :p

Why don't they just hold a plebecite, and decide who it belongs to that way?

I guess your message is to discourage us to donate...cos the Pakistani Gov is Corrupted...

BTW I do think the Pakistan Gov is indeed more corrupted than the Indian Gov..

Donate to Oxfam or Redcross. That way the money won't end up routed to the jihadis.

Any money given to the Pakistani army (the army is the govt), will surely end up killing civilians.

Lacadaemon,

It is not so simple. Nehru did promise plebiscite to the Kashmiris. UN resolutions also recommend that.

But plebsicite is to be held for the whole of J&K and Pakistan was to vacate the area. Pakistan was never interested in plebiscite since it thought it can wrest the area away militarily. They did have military parity with India in those days. The 1965 war was for that purpose.

The window of the plebiscite is gone. Demographics have changed now. The Pandit hindu community (about 100,000) have been driven away from their ancestral homes in Kashmir. Pakistan has also settled punjabis (their punjab) in Kashmir.

Simply put, plebiscite was promised to that generation of Kashmiris. They are no more. Many have been driven out. Many have been killed. Many non-Kashmiris have been settled there in Pakistani side.

There are just too many factions. The Jammu hindus and muslims want to stay with India. The Ladakhi Buddhist want to stay with India. The Kashmiri Gujjars want to stay with India. The sunni Mirpuris want to be with Pakistan. A minority of kashmir valley sunnis want independance and another minority wants to be with Pakistan. The Gilgiti and Baltistani Shias are a persecuted lot in Pakistan and would probably like to be with a secular unified state of J&K rather than a sunni theocratic state of Pakistan.

It is impossible to have a solution that will satisfy all the above parties.

Making the defacto border as dejure with increased autonomy and a soft border arrangement (free travel and trade..etc) is the best possible solution.

Propoganda means spreading falsehood.

You are accusing me of a liar.

Prove it.

Arya, you have to understand that Ocean believes that any criticism or negative news about any Islamic militants anywhere is false. Even if it's true, he won't believe it.

He believed al-Jazeera when they were repeating what the Iraqi Information Minister was saying when Baghdad fell. I'm sure that Ocean was quite shocked and thought the videos of the fall of Baghdad were faked.

The terrorists are pissed off that the army is doing exemplary relief work..this time they use a woman suicide bomber..a first in Kashmir.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=328591
Woman suicide bomber blown to pieces in Pulwama
SRINAGAR, OCT 13 (PTI)

In the first incident of its kind since the eruption of militancy in Jammu and Kashmir, a woman was blown to pieces when the Improvised Explosive Device (IED) she was carrying went off in Pulwama district today.

The IED exploded in the compound of the house of one Ghulam Mohammad Bhat at Awantipora on the Srinagar-Jammu national highway at around 1130 hours killing the burqa-clad woman instantly, a police spokesman said.

The main target of the suicide attack seemed to be the national highway which is generally crowded with relief convoys heading towards quake-hit areas these days, official sources said.

Several residential houses, including that of Bhat, a former special secretary in the government, were damaged in the deafening explosion.

Four rifle grenades, a hand grenade and Rs 500 were were recovered from the scene.

In a phone call to a local news agency, a person claiming to be a spokesman of the Pak-based Jaish-e-Mohammad, a militant outfit, said the woman, whom he identified as Hafsa, had blown up an army vehicle in the attack.

However, official sources said none of the security vehicles were passing through the area when the explosion occurred.

Jaish-e-Mohammed (and Lashkar-e-toiba) are the biggest jihadi orgs of Pakistan that are active in Kashmir. Jaish also has pan-islamist ambitions like LeT (though not to the extent of LeT which has cells everywhere). Omar Sheikh (of the Daniel Pearl affair) is a Jaish guy.

Ocean .. believed al-Jazeera when they were repeating what the Iraqi Information Minister was saying when Baghdad fell.prove it with the Quote function.

You cant...the same way you cant prove your 65% "fact"...

prove it with the Quote function.

You cant...the same way you cant prove your 65% "fact"...

Hard to do with Ocean constantly editing his posts. But, it's true - he'll believe al-Jazeera over anyone.

Oceandrive,

Here is a piece from NYT, the supposedly neutral media from a supposedly neutral country (neutral because it is not a party to the conflict as per your logic)..

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/14/international/asia/14cnd-india.html?hp&ex=1129348800&en=60244fd6e3a1cf84&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Needs of Quake Survivors Overwhelm India and Pakistan
By SOMINI SENGUPTA
and SALMAN MASOOD

India faced an acute shortage of tents, leaving earthquake survivors in villages of Kashmir to spend their seventh night outdoors.
..

The state government of Indian-controlled Kashmir has come under criticism for what many survivors call its slow response, as has the central government in Delhi for its insistence that it needs no foreign intervention in relief operations.
..

"If the Indian government doesn't have tents, why is there hesitance in accepting international aid?" asked Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, the leader of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, a coalition of Kashmiri separatist groups
..

Indian police confirmed today that a suspected suicide bomber was killed Thursday as she tried to attack an Army convoy on the road from Srinagar to Jammu
..

In addition to the suspected suicide bomber, 16 suspected militants were killed this week


Now first off, there is no shortage of tents in India. Because, we are actually giving tents (obviously surplus) to Pakistan.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/oct/15quake19.htm
Pak allows import of tents from India

This is a Paki paper
http://www.dawn.com/2005/10/15/top11.htm
LAHORE, Oct 14: A train carrying blankets, tents and medicines arrived here on Friday night from India. This is the second consignment of relief goods from the country in three days.

The Indian side had informed the Pakistan Railways on Friday morning that one wagon carrying tents and blankets would cross Wagah late night. Later, they increased the number to five, said a railways official. But finally four wagons crossed the border carrying 12 tons of medicines, 370 tents and 500 blankets.


Secondly about the criticism of the Govt of India for a "slow response". This criticism is only in certain segments of western media by the usual suspects who prop up the self proclaimed leaders of kashmir of the seperatist kind. Somini Sengupta is well known for that.

Sure enough she does not dissappoint by showing Mirwaiz Farooq, a seperatist leader, in a positive light. Farooq is now pushing this line in many outlets. See here

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/DEL24681.htm
India's tepid response to the tragedy has also reinforced a sense of alienation among many ordinary Kashmiris living on its side of the divided Himalayan territory, said Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, chairman of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference.

Of course, one would take him seriously, if he had not been doing this
Sitting in the garden of his home in Srinagar after several days on the road bringing relief to earthquake victims
This idiot has not moved his ass anywhere for relief.All the relief work is being done by the army soldiers and this ass sits on his ass in his garden and his propoganda is carried in both reuters and NYT - both supposedly neutral media.

And about the accusation that India is not allowing foreign relief workers...it is false..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051015/ap_on_re_as/quake_india_1;_ylt=AuA647l.QG3gg5Mijm8i5r7Ge50v;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
SRINAGAR, India - India is letting international relief agencies operate in militarized — and formerly forbidden — parts of
Kashmir

Heck, we are even allowing Paki helicopters into no-fly zones..
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005%5C10%5C16%5Cstory_16-10-2005_pg1_3
India allows Pakistani choppers to fly near LoC

NEW DELHI: India granted permission to Pakistan on Saturday to fly its helicopters inside one kilometre of the airspace above the LoC to access remote areas affected by the earthquake in Kashmir.

And finally, what the eff is "suspected suicide bomber" and "suspected militants". What is there to suspect in a suicide bombing? Is there any suspicion on the part of NYT that the Indian army/police forcibly dragged the woman and put a bomb on her and exploded it?

How about this?

Suspected militants reportedly hijacked planes and are suspected to have parked them into the World Trade centres, says American officials.

Sounds stupid and politically motivated right?

The idea that the US/UK media (including BBC et al) are neutral in foreign conflicts is false. Media can be bought. Media can be made to run psyops. It can be done and it has been done and is being done.

Translation...
(Nationalist posts)
I can understand your Nationalism...I don't like it but I can tolerate it...

(your last post)
BUT... I despise...I hate Hypocrisy.
It says a lot about you that you have to translate your own rants from English to English:rolleyes:

The idea that the US/UK media (including BBC et al) are neutral in foreign conflicts is false. Media can be bought. Media can be made to run psyops. It can be done and it has been done and is being done.
Actually, it is even more simple than you think it is.

From The Second Draft (http://www.seconddraft.org/):

Access Journalism
Access journalism refers to the compromises journalists must make in order to have access to sources and places that would be denied them, were they to offend those who control access. When Eason Jordan admitted in 2003 at the invasion of Iraq, that CNN had systematically avoided reporting negative things about Sadam for the previous 12 years, in order to be allowed to stay in Iraq, he essentially revealed how deeply CNN had compromised journalistic values for the sake of being able to continue reporting from a given place. The history of Stalinism as reported in the Western press is a classic product of access journalism, closely controlled by Soviet officials.

Oh and speaking of the "suspected militants":

PREVAILING PARADIGM

Journalists, like all groups of people, are subject to a “herd” mentality, in which one looks around for the dominant “take” on matters and places subsequent information within that framework as a way to avoid saying something so “off base” that it is embarrassing. This is especially true of foreign reporters who do not know much of the past and present of their assigned subjects. As a result, much news tends to replicate itself, and offer the reader a minimum of “alternative” takes. Much of this lies hidden behind a kind of neutral language that, nonetheless, reflects such conventions and consensual approaches.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/15/AR2005101501392_pf.html
Extremists Fill Aid Chasm After Quake
Group Banned In Pakistan Dispenses Relief

By John Lancaster and Kamran Khan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, October 16, 2005; A19

MUZAFFARABAD, Pakistan, Oct. 15 -- The army was slow to respond, and international aid agencies are in some ways just getting started. But here amid the rubble and the rain at the heart of Pakistan's earthquake zone, the zealous foot soldiers of Jamaat ul-Dawa, one of the country's most prominent Islamic extremist groups, are very much in evidence.

On a sloping muddy field near the rushing Neelum River, the group has established a large field hospital complete with X-ray equipment, dental department, makeshift operating theater, and even a tent for visiting journalists. Dispensaries are piled high with donated stocks of antibiotics, painkillers and other medical supplies.

"Even the army people have come over here to get first aid," said Mohammed Ayub, a long-bearded urologist from Lahore who is volunteering at the field hospital. "The casualties and destruction are so much that they are unable to cope."

Jamaat ul-Dawa is no ordinary charity. Founded in 1989 under a different name, it is the parent organization of Lashkar-i-Taiba, one of the largest and best-trained groups fighting Indian forces in the disputed Himalayan province of Kashmir. Lashkar-i-Taiba has been linked by U.S. authorities to al Qaeda and in 2002 was banned by Pakistan's government as a terrorist organization.

Jamaat ul-Dawa is one of several hard-line Islamic groups that have assumed a prominent role in relief operations following the devastating Oct. 8 earthquake in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir and adjacent areas.

Other groups with a visible presence on Saturday in Muzaffarabad, the largest town in the area, were the charitable wing of Jamiat-i-Islami, an Islamic political party with ideological links to the Palestinian militant group Hamas; and the Al-Rasheed Trust, a Karachi-based charity whose U.S. assets were frozen by the Bush administration in 2003 on grounds that it channeled funds to al Qaeda. The group has denied the charge and says it is focused purely on social welfare.

The groups' effective and visible relief work, analysts say, has bolstered their prestige, possibly at the expense of Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's president, and the army, whose initial response was widely criticized as slow and disorganized.

"Definitely they will gain," Ershad Mahmud, an analyst on Kashmir at the Institute for Policy Studies in Islamabad, said of Jamaat ul-Dawa. "They have diverted their whole network toward the relief operation."

Pakistani officials say the army has performed admirably given its own devastating losses in the quake, which killed about 450 soldiers. But in an interview Saturday, Interior Minister Aftab Khan Sherpao acknowledged the vital role of Jamaat ul-Dawa and other such groups, calling them "the lifeline of our rescue and relief work."

Jamaat ul-Dawa, he added, "is only involved in extensive charity work, and their footprint now covers almost the entire quake-affected zone in the country." Pakistan placed Jamaat ul-Dawa on its "terrorism watch list" in late 2003.

The government on Saturday raised its estimate of the death toll from the quake to 38,000, with 62,000 injured. The worst damage was in the part of Kashmir controlled by Pakistan; about 1,400 are thought to have died on the Indian side of the province.

With a chilly rain falling on much of the earthquake zone and early snows dusting nearby mountaintops, aid officials voiced growing concern about the welfare of an estimated 2 million people made homeless by the quake. Already there are signs of disease, with 80 cases of diarrhea reported Saturday in the heavily damaged town of Balakot, up tenfold from the day before. Relief officials estimate that 600,000 toilets will be needed to provide adequate sanitation for survivors.

The Jamaat ul-Dawa camp is one of the most visible relief operations in Muzaffarabad, a city of about 70,000 that was largely destroyed by the earthquake and is roughly 50 miles northeast of Islamabad. Situated on the edge of town, the camp is marked with a large hand-painted banner and consists of about 35 canvas tents -- many bearing the name of Jamaat ul-Dawa -- housing medical facilities and more than 100 patients. U.S. helicopters, carrying supplies and the injured, regularly fly over the area.

Equipment and medicine for the camp were salvaged from the group's wrecked hospital in Muzaffarabad and supplemented with donations from across the country, camp officials said.

Besides volunteer doctors and other medical staff, personnel at the camp Saturday included about 20 bearded young men, some wearing camouflage jackets and white headbands emblazoned with the group's name. Ammar Ahmad, an engineering student from Lahore who is volunteering at the camp, said the men were on hand as protection "against ruffians" and were armed with 9mm pistols.

Qazi Kashif, who edits Jamaat ul-Dawa's national magazine and was visiting the camp Saturday, said that the organization no longer had any connection to Lashkar-i-Taiba and that the insurgent group now operates purely on the Indian side of Kashmir. Jamaat ul-Dawa, he said, is "for preaching and public welfare.";)

But he added, in reference to the Kashmir insurgency, "We are in favor of jihad, no doubt.":rolleyes:

Lashkar-i-Taiba operated for years with the blessing of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence Agency, which provided the group with arms and training and helped launch its fighters across the cease-fire line separating Pakistani and Indian forces in Kashmir. It was founded by Hafiz Sayeed, a former Punjab University engineering professor who also started Jamaat ul-Dawa. The two groups shared the same headquarters in the town of Muridke near Lahore.

During the height of the insurgency in the 1990s, Lashkar-i-Taiba fighters assembled openly in Muzaffarabad and nearby training camps. In early 2002, under intense pressure from the United States, Musharraf banned the group and froze its assets. Sayeed was subsequently arrested, although a Pakistani court later ordered his release.

The State Department, in its annual terrorism report, asserts that a top al Qaeda lieutenant was captured at a Lashkar-i-Taiba safe house in March 2002.

Notwithstanding recent progress in peace negotiations with Pakistan, Indian officials have questioned the sincerity of Musharraf's ban and said that Pakistan has yet to dismantle the infrastructure used by insurgent groups on its territory.

Some Pakistani officials seemed to acknowledge as much in the days after the quake. Sikander Hayat Khan, the senior elected official in Pakistani Kashmir, told the private Geo television network that "jihadi organizations had to face massive destruction" near the town of Bagh because of the quake.

And a senior police official from Pakistani Kashmir said that Lashkar-i-Taiba and another prominent separatist group, Hizb-ul-Mujaheddin, "have lost significant assets both in men and material." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic.

At the Jamaat ul-Dawa field hospital Saturday, Abdul Majid said he did not know whether the group was involved in violence, nor did he care. A 35-year-old construction worker, he was lying in a leaky tent with a broken leg and back injuries from the earthquake, which killed two of his children, ages 2 and 4.

"Every 10 minutes a doctor or medical attendant comes in to check on me," he said from beneath a heap of blankets. "I have a very high opinion about this organization."

Khan reported from Karachi.

It is now certain that the Paki army has conceded the whole relief work to the jihadis. One has to wonder how a professional army (that too around half a million strong army) can put up a poor show compared to the jihadi network.

Of course, it is very amusing to recall what Musharraf said in Australia in an interview there..

http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/index.php?page=archive&daysum=2004-04-07#
MARK DAVIS: Yes, but what they are specifically saying on the banned groups, they're saying, "Well, you have banned them, but you haven't done much else. " That they have been renamed, they have been reformed, very few arrests, very few serious crackdowns - so they are just challenging the perception that you re actually doing anything, fairly or unfairly. One of the groups you have banned is Lashkar-e-Tayiba. One of their graduates is of interest in Australia - Willie Brigitte was recently discovered in Australia, allegedly with plans to blow something up, again it's widely believed and according to that ICG report, that Lashkar-e-Tayiba is still functioning in Pakistan. Now, you may say these groups aren't threatening Pakistan, but they are threatening other countries. Is it acceptable that they can survive in any form?

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Lashkar-e-Tayiba has not been banned, this has not been banned. Lashkar-e-Tayiba is not threatening anybody. Who has told you that they are threatening anybody? It is Jaish-e-Muhammed which threatens and Jaish-e-Muhammed is banned.

MARK DAVIS: Willie Brigitte, who is now in French custody, allegedly had plans to. . .

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Who?:rolleyes:

MARK DAVIS: A man named Willie Brigitte, he's now in French custody. He said he was trained by Lashkar-e-Tayiba in Pakistan, he was discovered in Australia, apparently with plans to blow something up. There's another Australian, David Hicks, who is now in Guantanamo Bay. He trained with Lashkar-e-Tayiba. He says that he was given training by the Pakistani army in Kashmir. So these groups do seem to be growing rather beyond any Kashmiri or any Pakistani issues.

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: It is very clear as far as we are concerned. Let's leave Kashmir aside. In Kashmir there is a freedom struggle going on and the people of Pakistan are emotionally involved with it. This is a 50-year-old dispute and we better resolve it politically. Let's leave that aside. We don't think there is any terrorism going on there. Now if anybody is carrying out terrorism around the world, we certainly are against it and we would like to act against it. Now the name that you are taking, frankly I don't know about that.

MARK DAVIS: I might just clarify that - it might be a pronunciation problem of mine - Lashkar-e-Tayiba - I mean this is not a banned group?

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, no, no, this is certainly not a banned group.

MARK DAVIS: They are on a watch list, though, you've put them on a watch list have you?

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: Yes, yes.

MARK DAVIS: So they are on a watch list but they are not banned?

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No.

MARK DAVIS: The American have just taken into custody a group of them in Iraq, outside of Baghdad, that they say, were operating. . .

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: No, I think we are mistaken there. I don't think Lashkar-e-Tayiba has come out anywhere. That is not the reality, I don't think so. Maybe you are talking of Jaish-e-Muhammad, which is the main troublesome organisation which has been. . .

MARK DAVIS: Now, it's now known as JD, so is JD still. . .

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: JD is Jaish-e-Muhammad.:rolleyes:

MARK DAVIS: Yeah.

PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARRAF: JD? I don't know. Jaish-e-Muhammad is the one which an extreme organisation and the leader is underground. We will get hold of him at any time, we are trying to look for him.

Every misery has a silver lining. Here is one...it does appear that the initial reports that the terrorist infrastructures were hard hit are true. Knowing how the jihadis claim to be fighting for Allah, I am very confused as to why Allah let this happen to his soldiers.;)
http://www.hindu.com/2005/10/16/stories/2005101610140100.htm
NEW DELHI: Two militant organisations operating from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir have suffered major losses in the October 8 earthquake, the Army's Director-General of Military Operations (DGMO), Madan Gopal, told newspersons here on Saturday.

The Hizb-ul Mujahideen (HM) and the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) have lost several activists but both the organisations continue to be active in Jammu and Kashmir. The security forces have gunned down 29 militants since the quake struck, he added.

The officer declined to estimate the militant casualties due to the earthquake, saying it would take time to get complete information. However, messages intercepted indicate that the HM seemed to have lost more men than the LeT. This could affect their operations in Jammu and Kashmir.

The first publicly revealed assessment by the Army tallied with that by other intelligence agencies. As is the case with the Army, other agencies are not stating the number of terrorists killed by the quake but assert that several of the 50 permanent terrorist training and communication camps in Pakistan had been damaged with HM being the worst hit. They claimed that the communication centres of HM (near Muzaffarabad) and Tehrik-e-Mujahiddin (Tohit) were among those which suffered severe damage.

Though the security forces are involved in relief operations there has been no let-up in operations.

The forces are "carrying out a happy balance of relief operations and are also not letting their guard down in anti-militancy operations," Lt. Gen. Gopal said at a briefing organised by the Union Home Ministry. In fact, the terrorist organisations attempted two major infiltrations soon after the quake struck in an effort to capitalise on the disruption caused by the natural disaster. But these were detected and neutralised by the security forces. Apart from the effect of losses suffered due to the earthquake, militancy in the State tends to decline during this period due to snow in the higher reaches, the DGMO added.

But the jihad must go on..
http://www.hindu.com/2005/10/16/stories/2005101614010100.htm
Two jawans killed

JAMMU: : Two jawans of the Territorial Army were killed and seven others injured as two Lashkar-e-Taiba ultras opened fire at a garrison in Kathua district of Jammu and Kashmir on Saturday. — PTI

But in the words of Musharraf...Who said LeT is threatening anybody?:rolleyes: