NationStates Jolt Archive

It's been done before, and should be done again with other countries, but the threads about Bush being currently the best or worst [US] president of the 21st century brought it up to me to do it again.

But let's put a few rules on it, and see how the list shakes out. It occurs to me this might be a good way to determine who is truly thought to be the best or worst president, and why.

Rule #1: You must take the list as from the post above you.
Rule #2: You may make two switches between adjacent presidents. This may involve, for example, on the current list, switching Madison and Monroe, and also switching Tyler and Harrison. Alternately, you could switch Tyler with Harrison, and then Tyler with Van Buren.
Rule #2.5: If you want, you can make just one switch.
Rule #3: You can't post right after yourself.
Rule #4: Give a reason, please.
Rule #5: If two people both post at the same time, try to read up and take both of their switches into account on your list.

I will begin with the perhaps overly simplistic thesis that the leadership of the United States has steadily declined in quality since seceding from the British Empire, thus:

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )

The dates may provide you with reasons if you want to look at how prosperous or belligerent the US was at a particular time. Discuss.

40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )

That's nice, but I said two adjacent presidents. I believe you wished to do something like this? ^^^

That's nice, but I said two adjacent presidents. I believe you wished to do something like this? ^^^
My bad, I missed that little tidbit. Yeah, I go with that!

Doesn't this belong in another time zone?

Doesn't this belong in another time zone?What, are you of the beliefs that nobody outside of the United States ever has an opinion on United Statesian presidents AND that no United Statesians are awake yet?

What, are you of the beliefs that nobody outside of the United States ever has an opinion on United Statesian presidents AND that no United Statesians are awake yet?
No, Fass just makes a habit of bitching about anything that doesn't fit into Fass's idea of the "perfect" NS thread.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )

Do you want reasons? - if so i will edit...

(also go back to W@W :-) (if you want the address i think you still have my IM names... - or TG me)

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )

[QUOTE=Jello Biafra]1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )

I'm surprised I'd be the first to move Kennedy up the list.

I'm surprised I'd be the first to move Kennedy up the list.I was too busy trying to move Reagan to the bottom.

also i think you might have moved him a bit far down - he was kicked up 2 spots by the first user... so should be back to normal now...

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)There we go. Much better.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )


Reagan fixed to only moving two spots - move again now :-)

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )
Now begins the arduous task of moving FDR up.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

being that the rules ask for a reason....
Eisenhower was a great army leader but the scariest President i have read about... using simulated Air-raids at the USSR to plot the locations of their radars, with instructions that if the aircraft were fired apon they were to retailiate with full force (armed with Nukes...) The final test involved something like 5000 aircraft getting within 50km of the Soviet border. That is just insane.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

can we get some reasons in here please :-)

can we get some reasons in here please :-)Reasons for moving FDR up? For his New Deal plan.
Of course, moving John Adams down will be a huge problem. Anyone who says "[There is] freedom of religion, but not freedom from religion."

he really said that?
time to move down :-)

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )[/QUOTE]

Adams for the Alien and Sedition Acts. Wilson for the Espionage Act. Harding for leading the country into depression. And Reagan because I disagree with most of his neo-conservative policies.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Lincoln for the Emancipation Proclaimation. Kennedy for everything he did and died for.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Switch #1: Swap of Nixon and Clinton.... Due to Watergate Scandal.
Switch #2: Swap of Eisenhower and Ford... Eisenhower just handled conflicts during his term better.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )
Now begins the arduous task of moving FDR up.
Grant down; Hayes up. Grant had a really corrupt administration
Harding down; FDR up. Harding was the most corrupt ever. Even the man himself said he should never have been President.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

I just moved FDR down twice. Why? Because his policies were as lame as his legs. He started the degeneration of this country by becoming overly involved in foreign affairs, forcing his socialistic morality on the populace, though his lust for power, by his chronic withholding of information, his suspension of the constitution (which hasn’t ever been officially reinstated, by the way) and his friendly relations with Stalin, whom he called “Uncle Joe.” The worst president in American history. Polio was too good for him.

I just moved FDR down twice. Why? Because his policies were as lame as his legs. He started the degeneration of this country by becoming overly involved in foreign affairs, forcing his socialistic morality on the populace, though his lust for power, by his chronic withholding of information, his suspension of the constitution (which hasn’t ever been officially reinstated, by the way) and his friendly relations with Stalin, whom he called “Uncle Joe.” The worst president in American history. Polio was too good for him.I disagree. It's say to say, given all of the bad things that he did (some of which you mentioned), but he is one of, if not the best president the U.S. had (for other reasons you mentioned).

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

I moved Truman up, I think its pretty much given he was a better president than Hoover. I also moved up Wilson, who took the internal works of taft and did them better, not to mention his foreign policy(so-so).

I moved Truman up, I think its pretty much given he was a better president than Hoover. I also moved up Wilson, who took the internal works of taft and did them better, not to mention his foreign policy(so-so).Well, I have to say that I can't despise Wilson, as he did conceive of the League of Nations. But his cracking down on dissent during WWI means he should be in the bottom 10.

Your rules suck as much as me no longer being able to edit posts!

Taft was our best President and I defy anyone to prove otherwise!

If they can, well, then ... ummmm .... Teddy Roosevelt. There.

Good luck.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )


Nixon down for Watergate
Wilson up for international policies

Carter over Ford:

Ford was never elected; he was something of a placeholder president. Carter was elected resoundingly to sooth America's aching conscience after Watergate, and did a resounding job of it, continuing to do good long after he left office.

I can't think of a single president who did as much outside of office for the country.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Truman ahead of Harding, mainly due to Harding's corruption.

Moved Jefferson ahead of Washington, because I feel that Jefferson accomplished more while in office.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Dubya ahead because he's not as bad as all the leftists say. Moved Clinton back because theres NO WAY he's better than Reagan, and I blame him for not doing enough to deal with the U.S. Cole bombing and first Trade Center bombing.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )
41 George Bush (1989-1993)

- Moved Dubya back to the bottom
- Moved Teddy Roosevelt up for his efforts in helping to establish the national park system.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

reagan down, then clinton up

nice idea, btw (to the thread starter)

Great Idea, my ass. All the lefties will keep moving Bush to the worst, all the righties will move him back. It will just keep goin downhill. Heres how it should be, rules be damned!



40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)

Nope, it should be more like this:

32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)

The worst part is, FDR wasn't even that great of a President.

*Those of you who still want to play the game the way the thread starter envisioned be sure to not use this post.

The worst part is, FDR wasn't even that great of a President.

.Ya, I wish I could meet him so I could punch him right in the face! I hope all the old people spend my Social Security money well, cause I certainly am not gonna get any from the youth of tommorrow. Actually, to be fair, he did help start the March of Dimes, which helps alot of children.

Other than that though, he's worthless.

Ya, I wish I could meet him so I could punch him right in the face! I hope all the old people spend my Social Security money well, cause I certainly am not gonna get any from the youth of tommorrow. Actually, to be fair, he did help start the March of Dimes, which helps alot of children.

Other than that though, he's worthless.Social Security's (maybe) not being solvent isn't due to FDR. If the government would encourage more immigration, the "crisis" would be reduced, or even eliminated.

Ahem...back to the concept...

- Moved Bush the First up, cause I see a lot of names on the list above him that were worse.
- Moved Harrison down...come on, you beat Cleveland, then lose to him?!? Get your shit together man! :p

On a side note, I feel there should only be one entry for Grover Cleveland, so if the thread starter agrees, I'd be happy to do any necessary editing of the list on my next post. :)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

you know i think there has only been one immediate reversal...

you know i think there has only been one immediate reversal...

:confused:

Jello - you aren't thinking. You've got two big government guys at the top, followed by the most small government guy in third. Here's how it ought to go.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )


Like any rational person, I put W. at the bottom. Truman's next for nuking the japs unnecessarily. Nixon was a disgrace. Johnson was W. light. FDR was a disaster of centralized management, and big gov. Lincoln killed states rights. Taft was a robber baron. Wilson was a globalist. Grant was a drunken buffoon. Carter couldn't handle anything, but made the mistake of trying to. Clinton was alright, but big gov. Bush Sr loved war machines. etc.

Jefferson was our best by far. Our only truly wise president. WAshington was admirably hands off. Madison managed not to do much too. Polk was effective as hell - probably our most productive president, but didn't direct his energies at increasing federal power.

etc.

This list is mostly correct - a few in the middle may be off, but the gist of this is how it ought to be. Note that there is not the usual conservative/liberal bias? That's because this list is actually correct.




*Those of you who still want to play the game the way the thread starter envisioned be sure to not use this post.[/QUOTE]

Jello - you aren't thinking. You've got two big government guys at the top, followed by the most small government guy in third. Here's how it ought to go.
Given that there are benefits to both large governments and small governments, I figured I'd focus on what they did instead.

On a side note, I feel there should only be one entry for Grover Cleveland, so if the thread starter agrees, I'd be happy to do any necessary editing of the list on my next post. :)Well, if anybody wants to start dividing Cleveland back up, I wouldn't mind, but until then, let's lump him together.

Moved LBJ down below Carter and Eisenhower on account of my largely blaming him for the mess that was the Vietnam War vs Carter and Eisenhower's somewhat less damaging foreign policies... well, largely as a comparison between Carter and LBJ. I'm not quite as sure on Ike, personally.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Truman's next for nuking the japs unnecessarily.
You need to learn your history. Unfortunate? Yes Unnecesary? Absolutely not!

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Washington back up to 1 because, damn it, "First in war, first in peace, and First in the hearts of his countrymen" should STILL mean SOMETHING! ;)

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

I like how people move Thomas Jefferson up and forget his social maladies. Or that our great founder George Washington was a hypochondriac with a penchant for the alcohol.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Eisenhower down - due to foreign policies
Wilson up for the same reason :-)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

- Jefferson back to first place...cause everytime he drops, I'm gonna bump him back up! :p

-Lincoln ahead of Taylor...I know a lot of people don't like many of the things that Lincoln did, but honestly...Taylor...I think we can put Lincoln ahead of him.

You need to learn your history. Unfortunate? Yes Unnecesary? Absolutely not!


Of course it was unnecessary. Japan was all alone against the entire world, and had just suffered a crushing defeat at the hands of the Ruski's. File the following under, "I learned something new today." Here:

"On Aug. 8, 1945 -- a week before Japan's surrender in World War II -- 1.5 million Soviet troops began a gigantic surprise attack against Japanese occupation forces in northern China and Korea, an area the size of Western Europe.

Within days, Tokyo's million-man army in the region had collapsed in one of the greatest military defeats in history.

"It was a massive campaign and a crushing blow for Japan, which was already in a bad way after fighting for almost four years in the Pacific War," said Nigel Steel, a World War II historian at the Imperial War Museum in London.

Historians say the now largely forgotten Red Army victory -- codenamed August Storm -- not only hastened the end of World War II but also set the stage for the Korean War and for the victory in 1949 of the Chinese communists in the civil war against the Nationalists.

Some Japanese historians believe it had a greater effect on the decision of the Japanese leadership to end the Pacific War than the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which came within days of the Soviet attack.

"The impact of atomic bombs [on the Japanese army's decision to surrender] is being overestimated," said Arai Shinichi, historian and professor emeritus of Ibaragi University and Surugadai University.


More important in persuading Tokyo to surrender were the Soviet decision to enter the war in the Far East, the Red Army's lighting advance through Manchuria, and the collapse of Japanese efforts to enlist the Soviets as peace intermediaries, Arai said.

Still, because August Storm came in the midst of the two atomic blasts, it has been largely neglected by Western historians.

"Cold War propaganda contributed to their being largely overlooked from the Anglo-American perspective," Steel said. "We always have focused on the atomic attacks, which for us represented the definitive blow."

In Russia, too, the far-off campaign was eclipsed by the bloody life-and-death struggle against Nazi Germany, dubbed the Great Patriotic War, said Alexander Koltyukov, director of Moscow's Institute of Military History.

Despite the unprecedented scale of the Soviet victory in the Far East, the relatively light casualties suffered by the Red Army in the Asia campaign also contributed to it being viewed as a sideshow, Koltyukov said.

Japan's forces in northeast Asia, known as the Kwantung Army, had already tangled with the Russians in 1939 when the Japanese tried to invade Mongolia. Their crushing defeat at the hands of General Georgy Zhukov -- an up-and-coming commander who later crafted the Soviet victory against the Nazis -- persuaded Tokyo to turn against U.S., British, French and Dutch forces in Southeast Asia instead.

Moscow and Tokyo eventually signed a neutrality pact that kept the Soviet Union out of the Pacific War that followed Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941. In fact, following the Nazi surrender on May 8, 1945, Tokyo looked to Moscow to mediate an end to the war in the Far East.

But unbeknown to the Japanese, Soviet leader Josef Stalin had promised Washington and London that he would attack Japanese forces within three months of Germany's defeat.

A force of 1.5 million Soviet troops under the command of Marshal Alexander Vasilevsky poured across the Manchurian frontier in a huge battle of encirclement on Aug. 8, catching the Kwantung Army completely off guard. Despite tenacious, often suicidal, resistance by the Japanese, within days the quick-moving Soviets had penetrated 900 kilometers into China, Korea and the Kuril Islands.

Up to that point -- although Japan had been weakened by defeats in Burma, the Philippines and a string of Pacific islands -- the Imperial Military Command believed it could still hold out against an Allied invasion of the home islands if it retained control of Manchuria and Korea, which provided Japan with the resources for war.

But then came the Soviet attack. After the death of 80,000 troops -- compared with about 8,200 Soviet casualties -- and the loss of the Kuril Islands, within striking distance of Japan's northernmost island of Hokkaido, Tokyo finally accepted the inevitability of defeat.

"The impact of the blow in Manchuria persuaded Japan's civilian and political leadership more than the atomic strikes to recognize they stood no chance at all of holding out even in the home islands," Steel said.

Although Moscow and Tokyo normalized diplomatic relations in 1956, Japan has refused to sign a peace treaty formally ending hostilities until the Soviet Union returns the "Northern Territories," four small islands off the coast of Hokkaido that Tokyo claims have always been Japanese territory."

from: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/08/08/016.html

[QUOTE=Delator]3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Polk up two slots. Jefferson had louisiana. Polk had Oregon and the Southwest.

You need to learn your history. Unfortunate? Yes Unnecesary? Absolutely not!


You need to understand what sick nightmares really look like:


Testimony of Yoshitaka Kawamoto

Mr. Yoshitaka Kawamoto was thirteen years old. He was in the classroom at Zakoba-cho, 0.8 kilometers away from the hypocenter. He is now working as the director of the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum, telling visitors from all over the world what the atomic bomb did to the people of Hiroshima.

KAWAMOTO: One of my classmates, I think his name is Fujimoto, he muttered something and pointed outside the window,saying, "A B-29 is coming." He pointed outside with his finger. So I began to get up from my chair and asked him, "Where is it?" Looking in the direction that he was pointing towards, I got up on my feet, but I was not yet in an upright position when it happened. All I can remember was a pale lightening flash for two or three seconds. Then, I collapsed. I don t know much time passed before I came to. It was awful, awful. The smoke was coming in from somewhere above the debris. Sandy dust was flying around. I was trapped under the debris and I was in terrible pain and that's probably why I came to. I couldn't move, not even an inch. Then, I heard about ten of my surviving classmates singing our school song. I remember that. I could hear sobs. Someone was calling his mother. But those who were still alive were singing the school song for as long as they could. I think I joined the chorus. We thought that someone would come and help us out. That's why we were singing a school song so loud. But nobody came to help, and we stopped singing one by one. In the end, I was singing alone. Then I started to feel fear creeping in. I started to feel my way out pushing the debris away little by little, using all my strength. Finally I cleared the things around my head. And with my head sticking our of the debris, I realized the scale of the damage. The sky over Hiroshima was dark. Something like a tornado or a big fire ball was storming throughout the city. I was only injured around my mouth and around my arms. But I lost a good deal of blood from my mouth, otherwise I was OK. I thought I could make my way out. But I was afraid at the thought of escaping alone. We had been going through military drills everyday, and they had told us that running away by oneself is an act of cowardice, so I thought I must take somebody along with me. I crawled over the debris, trying to find someone who were still alive. Then, I found one of my classmates lying alive. I held him up in my arms. It is hard to tell, his skull was cracked open, his flesh was dangling out from his head. He had only one eye left, and it was looking right at me. First, he was mumbling something but I couldn't understand him. He started to bite off his finger nail. I took his finger out from his mouth. And then, I held his hand, then he started to reach for his notebook in his chest pocket, so I asked him, I said, ``You want me to take this along to hand it over to your mother?'' He nodded. He was going to faint. But still I could hear him crying out, saying ``Mother, Mother'' I thought I could take him along. I guess that his body below the waist was crashed. The lower part of his body was trapped, buried inside of the debris. He just adhered to go, he told me to go away. And by that time, another wing of the school building, or what used to be the school building, had caught on fire. I tried to get to the playground. Smoke was filling in the air, but I could see the white sandy earth beneath. I thought this must be the playground, then I started to run in that direction. I turned back and I saw my classmates Wada looking at me. I still remember the situation and is still appears in my dreams. I felt sorry for him, but it was the last time I ever saw him. I, so, was running, hands were trying to grab my ankles, they were asking me to take them along. I was only a child then. And I was horrified at so many hands trying to grab me. I was in pain, too. So all I could do was to get rid of them, it s terrible to say, but I kicked their hands away. I still feel bad about that. I went to Miyuki Bridge to get some water. At the river bank, I saw so many people collapsed there. And the small steps to the river were jammed, filled with people pushing their way to the water. I was small, so I pushed on the river along the small steps. The water was dead people. I had to push the bodies aside to drink the muddy water. We didn't know anything about radioactivity that time. I stood up in the water and so many bodies were floating away along the stream. I can t find the words to describe it. It was horrible. I felt fear. Instead of going into the water, I climbed up the river bank. I couldn't move. I couldn't find my shadow. I looked up. I saw the cloud, the mushroom cloud growing in the sky. It was very bright. It had so much heat inside. It caught the light and it showed every color of the rainbow. Reflecting on the past, it s strange, but I could say that it was beautiful. Looking at the cloud, I thought I would never be able to see my mother again, I wouldn't be able to see my younger brother again. And then, I lost consciousness. When I came to, it was about seven in the evening. I was the transportation bureau at Ujina. I found myself lying on the floor of the warehouse. And an old soldier was looking in my face. He gave me a light slap on the cheek and he said, "You are a lucky boy." He told me that he had gone with one of the few trucks left to collect the dead bodies at Miyuki Bridge. They were loading bodies, treating them like sacks. They picked me up from the river bank and then, threw me on top of the pile. My body slid off and when they grabbed my by the arm to put me back onto the truck, they felt that my pulse was still beating, so they reloaded me onto the truck, carrying the survivors. I was really lucky. But I couldn't stand for about a year. I was so weak. My hair came off, even the hair in my nose fell out. My hair, it started to come off about two weeks later. I became completely bald. My eyes, I lost my eye sight, probably not because of the radioactivity, but because I became so weak. I couldn`t see for about three months. But I was only thirteen, I was still young, and I was still growing when I was hit by the A-bomb. So about one year later. I regained my health. I recovered good health. Today I am still working as you can see. As the director of the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum, today, I am handing my message over to the children who visit. I want them to learn about Hiroshima. And when they grow up, I want them to hand down the message to the next generation with accurate information. I'd like to see him conveying the right sense of judgment so that we will not lead mankind to annihilation. That is our responsibility.

You need to understand what sick nightmares really look like
Wrong thread. Create yet another Hiroshima thread and I'll be glad to enter it and debate you on the value and wisdom of the bombs as there are a few things you missed.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Jackson (for his native american policy) and Grant (for being an anti-semite) both down one.

By the way, president #12 is David Rice Atchinson, not Zachary Taylor ;)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

switched Filmore and Lincoln---easy choice.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved up Polk (my #1) and down Adams (he needs to go WAAAAAAAY down)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved FDR up because as much as I liked Teddy, FDR goes first.
Moved Jackson down for ruining relations with Native Americans and being on the 20 when there are so many other more deserving presidents.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

- Moved Truman ahead of Coolidge (fairly obvious in my mind)
- Moved McKinley ahead of Harrison, only because McKinley was assassinated.

Someone wanna help me out on how Nixon got to the bottom? I didn't see that many downward switches for him. Someone missed the word "adjacent," maybe? It may have been the guy that switched Nixon and Clinton, I don't think they were adjacent when he did that. I guess I'll make a post while I'm here.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Put Nixon and Reagan up a rank each. Reagan was massively responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union and allowed the 90's boom to happen in the first place. Nixon got the U.S. out of Vietnam, bombed the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Cambodia, and strengthened our relationship with China.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Lincoln down (*massive* superceeding of the Constitution)
Polk up (he actually fufilled every last campaign promise of his)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Martin Van Buren for not protecting the LDS in Missouri from the Extermination Order of Gov Boggs - hundreds died due to attacks by mobs and freezing to death while fleeing the persecution.

John F. Kennedy for setting us up for the Vietnam War, the Coup that killed the Vietnamese president Diem, for the Bay of Pigs Invasion, for being wishy-washy on the Cuban Missile Crisis, for nepotism with the appointment of his brother as US Attorney General, for being stupid for stepping out on his wife - one of the most intelligent women who ever walked into the White House.

Someone wanna help me out on how Nixon got to the bottom? I didn't see that many downward switches for him. Someone missed the word "adjacent," maybe? It may have been the guy that switched Nixon and Clinton, I don't think they were adjacent when he did that. I guess I'll make a post while I'm here.Well, as a fairly recent president, he started out near the bottom, and then people moved Reagan, Clinton, and Carter past him. Nobody else has really wanted to move him up any.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Kennedy goes back up for handling the Cuban Missile Crisis without getting us killed and for pushing the Civil Rights Act.

Grant goes down for being drunk constantly and for relying on corrupt advisors.

Well, as a fairly recent president, he started out near the bottom, and then people moved Reagan, Clinton, and Carter past him. Nobody else has really wanted to move him up any.

I understand that, but he wasn't that recent... there have been 6 presidents since him, I've seen him bumped up twice, so that means he would have to be knocked seven times to make it to where he was... I don't think I say that many drops for him.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Here's my list. Washington gets the top spot for rather obvious reasons (as the template for the evolution of the office). Lincoln gets the number two spot for leading the United States during the most difficult period in our country's history.

Surprisingly high on my list is Gerald Ford, who gets that nod because of the extraordinarily difficult circumstances he faced upon taking the oath of office (following Nixon's resignation). Surprisingly low on my list is Thomas Jefferson, who does not gain favour from me for advocating the worthless gunboats in lieu of a proper navy. Bill Clinton gets relatively low marks from me since he seemed to swing too heavily toward being a populist President. Reagan gets relatively high marks in my book for advocating a strong national defence and for his "encouragement" to Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Adams and Eisenhower, reasons as above...

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
32 Franklin D. Roose
****SNIP****
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )


supposed to swap neighbours only...

1 George...[butcher]...Wall.

You're not supposed to make your own list, you're supposed to edit the most recent list by switching two pairs of presidents.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved up Washington and Eisenhower.

Washington for not taking over as dictator when the people would've let him, for setting a precedent of backing down gracefully after two terms, and for generally setting the standard for non-activist Presidents.

Eisenhower for being probably the least activist of modern Presidents, and the few things he did do were pretty good, his foreign policy DID end the Korean War, he built the Federal highways and St. Lawrence Sea Way, and he DIDN'T repeal Social Security and other FDR institutions (he was the first Republican President after FDR, and had a Republican Congress, so he very well could've repealed everything FDR ever did).

Moved Carter over Hoover and Harding, as they set everything up for the Great Depression. Although Harding wasn't too bad, and was in some fashions progressive.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Madison down for being an elitist.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

So many i dont know about...
oh well moved adams down 2.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Jackson down for his genocide against the Native Americans.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved adams down so he isnt in the top 10
moved clinton up cause i dont think he is in the bottom ten (current is 8 last)

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Moved Lincoln up for the Emancipation Proclamation.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)

17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)

25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)

And what I'd like to call the dumbass brigade. Still best to worst order.
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
24 Grover Cleveland (1893-1897)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
42 George W. Bush (2001- )

Americai clearly didn't read the directions, so I will skip his post.
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Polk goes up, Carter goes down. Nuff said.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Harding down.

Americai clearly didn't read the directions, so I will skip his post.

Oh, I read them, but I doubt I'll be visiting this thread much with two jobs and all. So I just posted what I felt my final decision would be.

Anyway just bring nixon down if anything.

1 George Washington (1789-1797)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Teddy and FDR up.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Jefferson and Polk up

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

FDR and Wilson up, due to foreign policies

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001- )

Polk up, Carter down. You know, Reagan, Clinton, and the Bushes shouldn't be included. They are too recent, and people spend too much time thinking present day politics for them to be objective about those presidents.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Lincoln up Tyler down.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Adams and Carter down. Should be self-explainatory

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Am I really the first one to do this? All right...Polk down for the Mexican-American War.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Jackson--Van Buren

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

FDR up (x2)

I have to say, this was an interesting premise but it deteriorated quickly.

why? most people have followed the rules set out...
A number of trends seem to have begun emerging... a number of Presidents have moved 50 years in time (on a scale of best to worst...)

why? most people have followed the rules set out...
A number of trends seem to have begun emerging... a number of Presidents have moved 50 years in time (on a scale of best to worst...)
From what I understood of the format it was encouraged that people give reasons for moving them around; and most of what I've seen so far has been a copy/paste of the list with the desired changes made--no notes, no comparative analysis, etc. Basically this contest is proceeding in such a fashion so as the most persistent person or persons win.

I suppose it's just that in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't take an internet-generated list of the USA's best presidents--as formulated by the most persistent person on the subject--very seriously.

From what I understood of the format it was encouraged that people give reasons for moving them around; and most of what I've seen so far has been a copy/paste of the list with the desired changes made--no notes, no comparative analysis, etc. Basically this contest is proceeding in such a fashion so as the most persistent person or persons win.

I suppose it's just that in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't take an internet-generated list of the USA's best presidents--as formulated by the most persistent person on the subject--very seriously.

well i have provided a reason when i moved someone the first time... and when i move them again its generally for the same reason(s)

i agree a 100-200 word explination would be better, but i dont bother because no-one else has... and i dont really know enough (anything) about many of the presidents to make those sort of claims, is also why i am restricting my movements to the better known ones...

furthermore a general explination for my movements would be a "good" leader in the context of the rest of the world, helping allies where needed, and avoiding issues that could have been too volatile... This has led me to dropping Eisenhower, and raising Wilson and FDR. Other movements have been based on what others have said, after a quick check to make sure it isnt entirely BS.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

William Harrison and Van Buren down Lincoln up. Harrison did nothing, Van Buren not much more. Lincoln needs to be above them with no explanation and I doubt if anyone could debate the issue.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Grover Cleveland up 1, Millard Fillmore up 1: They both have cool names.

I'm happy to see Jefferson on top. I wonder how long it will be til someone like Abe Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt climbs the ladder and bumps him off.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Polk up- expansionist
Adams down- federalist scum!

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Moved Lincoln up ahead of Jackson
Moved Nixon down below Bush

well i have provided a reason when i moved someone the first time... and when i move them again its generally for the same reason(s)
Again, I'd like to point out the complete lack of comparative analysis. Besides, I think it was encouraged that we keep repeat voting to a minimum, even if that's not explicityl stated in the opening post.

i agree a 100-200 word explination would be better, but i dont bother because no-one else has... and i dont really know enough (anything) about many of the presidents to make those sort of claims, is also why i am restricting my movements to the better known ones...
Now what sense does that make? If you "dont really know enough (anything) about many of the presidents," then on what basis are you moving the ones you do know past the ones you don't know?

furthermore a general explination for my movements would be a "good" leader in the context of the rest of the world, helping allies where needed, and avoiding issues that could have been too volatile... This has led me to dropping Eisenhower, and raising Wilson and FDR. Other movements have been based on what others have said, after a quick check to make sure it isnt entirely BS.
Err.. I don't think FDR or Wilson [especially Wilson] did a very good job of "avoiding" volatile issues [Pearl Harbor? WWI?]. Wilson was the son of a bitch who got us into WW1, ushering in [to date] 88 years of Foreign Policy incompetence. Why you would bump up the President who got us involved in the most utterly ridiculous conlict in the history of mankind, I'll never know. And don't even get me started on that son of a bitch FDR.

Anyway, time for my votes:

29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
I switched Reagan with LBJ because there's no way on either side of hell that LBJ wasn't the worst president of the 20th century. I honestly can't fathom why anyone would rank LBJ above any other president except possibly our current one. Say what you will about Reagan [those who know my politics should have a good general opinion of where I stand with him] but there is no way his Administration [and his Presedency] was worse than Johnson's.

Second switch:
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
Moved FDR down for a number of reasons: Pearl Harbor, WW2 in general, and seeking a third term, not to mention his horribly leftist policies. Cleveland and Grant were not great presidents by comparison either [especially Grant] but given the political maneuvering that's likely to take place over FDR's spot [I imagine some leftist somewhere--probably Jello Biafra--will spend most of their time at next login moving him up] I have to say 'Fuck FDR.'

Here's the List as it stands now for easy copying:

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

T Roosevelt up----We have a problem because there is a large group (on this list, between WH Harrison and FDR) that need to drop to the bottom as a unit. Just before the Civil war and Just after the civil war we had a large group or presidents that were worthless. Because they started in the middle they have remained there. There are several after 1900 that need to be moved up to take their place in the middle.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Moved JFK down twice, once on virtue of Truman ending WW2 very quickly and once more on virtue of the fact that JFK was, in fact, not much of a president and was likely one of the most corrupt presidents to take office in the latter half of the 20th century. The man had no political virtue to speak of, aside from being [from what I'm told from people who can judge male appearance] easy on the eyes and fairly approachable. He had little or no diplomatic skills to speak of, and his policies were pretty much garbage across the board. If this list is anywhere near accurate, JFK will end up down there among the likes of LBJ, Nixon, and GW Bush.

5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)

---
3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797) to below JFK, both were useless presidents (George washington's second term especially), 2 John Adams (1797-1801) to the bottom for the alien and sedation acts, removing 43 George W. Bush (2001-2008) because history has not had enough time to judge him, moved LBJ down, WHH moved to the bottom for uselessness, 18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877) below Nixon for corruptness.

history hasn't had enough time to judge George W. Bush? bullshit. notice only one person didnt have GWB right down the bottom. he is the most idiotic dumb ass president to ever have been voted in. thank god he cant run again after this term...

and btw this whole idea is dumb, you can only change the person who started this thread's opinions.

CSW, you can't move them more than two lines in either direction. Read the first post.

If we could, this excersize would be more pointless than it already is, especially with all the repeat voting--which I have, admittedly, indulged in myself.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Moved Lincoln and Grant down coz of the many reasons I hate Lincoln and Grant for being a corrupt SOB

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Moved John Adams down. To my mind, the Alien & Sedition acts were probably worse than anything James Buchanan did (and I don't think he did all too much of note).

Moved Grant down for corruption.

Moved Reagan down because I disagree with almost all of his economic and social policies.

CSW, you can't move them more than two lines in either direction. Read the first post.

If we could, this excersize would be more pointless than it already is, especially with all the repeat voting--which I have, admittedly, indulged in myself.
Pish. Foolish laws and restrictions. George Washington and John Adams belong at the bottom, not the top, they were both horrid presidents.

Czardas, I dont care if you want to move Reagan down, but at least have the decency to move LBJ down too. I'd like to see someone try to make a convincing case that Reagan was in any way worse than LBJ.

You're right, LBJ wasn't all too good himself. Consider them tied.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

Czardas, I dont care if you want to move Reagan down, but at least have the decency to move LBJ down too. I'd like to see someone try to make a convincing case that Reagan was in any way worse than LBJ.

Reagan committed TREASON. He sold arms to the enemy, then gave the money to a group that Congress specifically voted not to fund. Congress has the right under the constitution to spend money NOT the president. BOTH would have been enough to bring treason charges and impeachment but he was at the end of his term and those in the know knew his mind was going and so felt it was the lesser option to ignore his actions.

Which enemy was that?

The "repeat voting" phenomenon is being limited somewhat by the "not vote twice in a row" rule. That's been slowing people down enough to not put their favorites right on top, actually - there hasn't been that much movement of controversial figures.

What's of particular importance is that you have a good idea of both presidents that you're switching. It's hard to say which one is better if you draw a complete blank on one. That said, I'm going to weigh in yet again here...

I'm switching Harding and Hoover. While both ended up contributing some policy-wise to the crash of 1929, Hoover's choices ended up making things worse during the crisis. Contrastingly, Harding was exceptionally progressive in terms of combating racism for his era.

I'm also switching Lincoln and William Henry Harrison. His complete failure to at least survive long enough to make it through office was entirely due to his own foolishness, managing to cheat the electorate out of its choice. He may also be blamed by the superstitious for bringing "Tecumsah's curse" upon the presidency for his very real inhumane activities against the natives of what is now the midwest. Meanwhile, Lincoln at least accomplished that much - however controversial his actions after the secession of the South may be, it is unlikely that Harrison would have performed any better, and his eventual outlawing of slavery stands as one of the better moves in US history.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

I am switching Lyndon B. Johnson and George W. Bush. Where Johnson increased federal bureaucracy manyfold, creating the legal basis to the DEA and ATFE as we know them today, Bush has reduced the power of the ATF and reduced taxes. Also, Vietnam was worse than Iraq by an order of magnitude or two.

Equally I am switching FDR and Garfield. NFA. Marijuana Tax Act. Bans on gold. Threats to the independence of the courts. Enough?

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)


I moved FDR and Clinton up one spot each. For me they would both be in the top 3.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

Same two changes as before... why?
Because I can. :)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

Clinton +2. Having him under Harding is an insult.

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Switched Dubya and Ford. Sure, Ford was an awful president, and he wasn't even elected, but George W.'s failures were worse.

Switched Dubya and Johnson. At least LBJ did some useful things, like starting the Great Society...

Switched Dubya and his papa. Bush I only served one term, after all.

...And, what the hell, switched Dubya and Nixon, if only because Nixon did us all the honor of resigning. (Of course, he left us Ford, so the merit of his action is debatable.)

3 Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
1 George Washington (1789-1797)
7 Andrew Jackson (1829-1837
5 James Monroe (1817-1825)
11 James K. Polk (1845-1849)
6 John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
4 James Madison (1809-1817)
16 Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
9 William Henry Harrison (1841)
8 Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
13 Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
10 John Tyler (1841-1845)
12 Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
14 Franklin Pierce (1853-1857)
15 James Buchanan (1857-1861)
2 John Adams (1797-1801)
32 Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
17 Andrew Johnson (1865-1869)
19 Rutherford B. Hayes (1877-1881)
22&24 Grover Cleveland (1885-1889,1893-1897)
26 Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
20 James A. Garfield (1881)
18 Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
21 Chester Arthur (1881-1885)
25 William McKinley (1897-1901)
23 Benjamin Harrison (1889-1893)
28 Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
27 William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
30 Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
33 Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
35 John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
42 Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
29 Warren G. Harding (1921-1923)
40 Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
31 Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
39 Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
34 Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
38 Gerald Ford (1974-1977)
36 Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
41 George Bush (1989-1993)
37 Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
43 George W. Bush (2001-2008)

Switched Dubya and Ford. Sure, Ford was an awful president, and he wasn't even elected, but George W.'s failures were worse.

Switched Dubya and Johnson. At least LBJ did some useful things, like starting the Great Society...

Switched Dubya and his papa. Bush I only served one term, after all.

...And, what the hell, switched Dubya and Nixon, if only because Nixon did us all the honor of resigning. (Of course, he left us Ford, so the merit of his action is debatable.)
You've made 3 changes. Only two are permitted.

Heading back and reviewing the collective list made, I think it's safe to say that almost no individual would have spat out that same ranking on their own.