NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.komotv.com/news/printstory.asp?id=39576


Ken Potts calls himself a patriot. That's what his front yard tells you too.

Metal American flags are staked in the ivy beside the driveway. A red, white, and blue pinwheel spins near the front sidewalk. One flagpole flies the American flag. A second flagpole carries the banner of the Army's 101st Airborne.

Even his mailbox on North 185th Street in Shoreline sports the image of the Airborne's screaming eagle.

But he says that in the last year the mailbox has been blown up twice with fireworks. The house has been egged. Paint has been thrown on the house too. The flags have been torn down and ripped up more than once.

And the 101st Airborne flag has had the word "murder" and a swastika written on it with a permanent marker.

"It's really difficult for me to see something like this and not feel sad," Potts told us of the vandalism that started around election day last year. Especially, he says, since the 101st led the charge in World War II to defeat Nazi Germany.

But the biggest insult to this house with a permanent Bush-Cheney placard attached to the second story and a collection of mostly Republican election signs in the side yard, is the spray paint someone left on his vinyl siding this past weekend.

In two-foot tall letters on the side of his house facing Meridian someone painted "Bush Nazis."

"Where do they get off calling the President of the United States a Nazi," he said.

This former soldier with three tours of Vietnam says he feels like his own freedom of speech is under attack.

"When you have someone or a group of people who want to take that away from you, who probably didn't do a thing to defend them in the first place, it's really sad."

But to fight back he always puts new flags back on those front yard flagpoles.

He installed a security camera that keeps watch over his front yard. And for his own political jab he put an electronic readerboard in a front window. 24 hours a day it says: "Liberalism - is a mental disorder."

"I want to make sure that they know I can't be pushed around."

And he says he'll leave the spray painted "Bush Nazis" on the side of his house for a while to show people on this busy corner what tolerance "doesn't" look like.

He also says he's turned the other cheek and doesn't want prosecution or revenge. He says he'd like to meet the vandal or vandals and have a friendly American debate instead.

"If we want to have disagreements in this country there's ways to have disagreements and there's ways to have a dialogue. If you've got a problem with me come up and talk about it. We may not even agree but we can agree to disagree."

Let see who's the more tolerant one here eh?

:rolleyes:

Serapindal trying to reproach others for lack of tolerance? Oh, the fascist hypocrisy. :rolleyes:

And that guy just seems to be an RL attention-whoring troll.

Proof it was 'leftists' and not just kids?

None.

Liberalism - is a mental disorder.
Ah yes...the tolerance...saying those who have differing political opinions to yours have a mental disorder.

And he says he'll leave the spray painted "Bush Nazis" on the side of his house for a while to show people on this busy corner what tolerance "doesn't" look like.
He would do a much better job by just leaving that sign of his up.

Oh, but Serapindal's pronouncements always make so much sense. :rolleyes:

Let see who's the more tolerant one here eh?

:rolleyes:
Perhaps you would have a point, if it weren't for the fact that the actions of vandals have nothing to do with the opinions of the entire left.
Good try, though.

Proof it was 'leftists' and not just kids?

None.proof is in the wording. I don't see just normal Kids out for a bit of normal(?) vandalism using "Bush Nazi" on a pro USA home. Or labeling the 101st airborne as "Murders" unless they were trying to make a political statement.

Oh, but Serapindal's pronouncements always make so much sense. :rolleyes:unless you know that Serapindal wrote the article, can you offer anything else to prove it's not Leftists (granted it might be young or fringe leftists, but leftists just the same.)

Perhaps you would have a point, if it weren't for the fact that the actions of vandals have nothing to do with the opinions of the entire left.
Good try, though.while I don't hold the few vandals as the "Mouthpiece" for the entire left, I do hope you do remember your posts when the next "it's Bushes/Republicans/Christians fault because of a few idiots" thread appears.

I think Thomas Paine had the best spin on tolerance:

"Toleration is not the opposite of intoleration, but is the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms. The one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, and the other of granting it."

Oh yes. Lets draw attention away from the real issue here, (the article.) and focus all the attention Seranpidal's (sp?) less than popular views. :rolleyes:

Serapindal has a point here. In my community, I have heard of people heving their property damaged or destroyed because of their Republican political views.

Intolerence is a problem in America, on both sides of the aisle.

Proof it was 'leftists' and not just kids?

None.

Beat me to it. Reminds me of a similar story from a few months ago when there was a case of some "leftist vandals" who stole a bunch of Bush Cheney yard signs and set them on fire underneath a car. Turns out it was a couple of drunk dumbfucks who used what was handy as kindling.

blind patriotism isn't conservativism
hatred of your contry isn't liberalism

People have hated their country throughout time and the ways of showing it just change.

People have hated other people throughout time and the ways of showing it just change.

People are scared, people are angry, people are bored. Normally war fixes things like this, but you need a really GOOD war to rally the country, and this isn't it.

Both left and right are intolerant, it's called being extreme.

http://www.komotv.com/news/printstory.asp?id=39576
Let see who's the more tolerant one here eh?

:rolleyes:

There's no reason to assume a few people being pricks represent the common view of 'the left'. The people who vandalized that guy's house are pricks. But they're probably not 'left wing fanatics' they're most likely teenagers who think it's funny.

Rawr! The majority is being oppressed again! :(

Beat me to it. Reminds me of a similar story from a few months ago when there was a case of some "leftist vandals" who stole a bunch of Bush Cheney yard signs and set them on fire underneath a car. Turns out it was a couple of drunk dumbfucks who used what was handy as kindling.why did they set it afire under a car??? A well, chalk it up to the myterious workings of a Sauced mind.


but why "Murders" and "Bush Nazi" surely someone without a political agenda (personal that may be, but still a political Mindset) would use different sloagans...

Who only knows what exactly goes on in the mind of people who would willfully vandalise the property of a law abiding person. The only thing the artical indicates to me is that some people either have no notion of acceptable behaviour, or dont care to abide by that notion if they do have it.

Anyone who wants to pretend that such actions prove anything about anyone beyond those who directly perpetrated the actions, is only discrediting themselves. Plenty of non-leftest people have displayed obvious signs of a complete ignorance of or disregard for acceptable standards of behaviour. As an example I suggest flying a plane into a couple of buildings falls well short of acceptable behaviour, and I am very confident the people who did that on 9/11 were far from 'leftist' yet I am also confident that such an act doesnt prove anything about the non-tolerance of anyone and everyone or even the majority of persons who are 'non-leftist'.

I doubt there exists a political view point that doesnt have adherents who refuse or are unable to abide by the standards of acceptable behaviour that most people fortunately hold themselves to.

why did they set it afire under a car??? A well, chalk it up to the myterious workings of a Sauced mind.


but why "Murders" and "Bush Nazi" surely someone without a political agenda (personal that may be, but still a political Mindset) would use different sloagans...
And the assumption is that someone from the left would do that, because no one from the far right, who perhaps thinks that Bush hasn't been conservative enough, would ever do something like that, right? Perhaps an abortion extremist who is mad because Bush hasn't come through with a confirmed anti-abortion SC nominee? Or an anti-gay activist pissed about the lack of a federal marriage amendment? It's just as possible--you have to admit that. It's just easy for Serapindal to accuse the left because he's so closed-minded to any other possibility.

And the assumption is that someone from the left would do that, because no one from the far right, who perhaps thinks that Bush hasn't been conservative enough, would ever do something like that, right? Perhaps an abortion extremist who is mad because Bush hasn't come through with a confirmed anti-abortion SC nominee? Or an anti-gay activist pissed about the lack of a federal marriage amendment? It's just as possible--you have to admit that. It's just easy for Serapindal to accuse the left because he's so closed-minded to any other possibility.while that is... a very small possiblity, an abortion extremist, would not attack Bush using 101st Airborne nor egging, blowing up mailboxes repeatedly as well as the other stuff. neither would an Anti-gay person because such action won't further their cause even in the most extreme (on either end) case.

while I do grant that some of the actions do scream kids (egging and paint) you have to admit that the house is targetted because of it's seemingly pro government stance.

Unless someone can provide evidence that other Not so blatent homes, are being vandalized.

http://www.komotv.com/news/printstory.asp?id=39576




Let see who's the more tolerant one here eh?

:rolleyes:


While I agree that blind nationalism is disgusting, I have to say, these guys do a piss poor job of tormenting Na- I mean Republicans. The least they could manage is to regularly schedule protests, make him an image of public mockery, and kick his dog (which we all know he had because all redn- I mean southerners have dogs). [/sarcasm, to protect myself from the irony-deficient]

Is that what you wanted to hear.

More seriously, I'm not gonna play the "Well he was a bigot first" game, and I'm certainly not gonna defend screwing with his stuff, but I'm not sure I find him a particularly appealing person, or dissagree with their analysis of him.

That sorta thing isn't so uncommon in the Seattle area. We've had issues like this on both sides of the fence (Bush signs were actively destroyed, vandalized and the like, and some signs that were Anti-Eyeman-initiative were destroyed as well.). While I've got no problemwith having some fun at the sake of the other guy's propoganda (I never claimed to not be a bit vindictive myself), they really need to be more creative... I mean... "Bush Nazi"... It's practically old-news... Why not "Anti-DDT Farm-hater" (since he loves eagles so much) or "Stop corrupting the art of Betsy Ross. Put back the 13 stars!"

while that is... a very small possiblity, an abortion extremist, would not attack Bush using 101st Airborne nor egging, blowing up mailboxes repeatedly as well as the other stuff. neither would an Anti-gay person because such action won't further their cause even in the most extreme (on either end) case.

while I do grant that some of the actions do scream kids (egging and paint) you have to admit that the house is targetted because of it's seemingly pro government stance.

Unless someone can provide evidence that other Not so blatent homes, are being vandalized.A xenophobe who thinks Pat Robertson or Pat Buchanan is the second coming of Christ might attack Bush using the 101st Airborne.

Face it, JuNii--it is possible, no matter how unlikely you think it is. The important point here is that this sort of attack is done by an extremist, not your garden variety political type. So Serapindal's slam on leftists is bullshit, as is, quite frankly, your defense of his slam.

Well it's got to be from a leftist. After all, people who think the 101st (who the article distinctly points out 'led the charge' to defeat Hitler) is a bunch of murderers must be leftists and not, perhaps, skinheads themselves.

A xenophobe who thinks Pat Robertson or Pat Buchanan is the second coming of Christ might attack Bush using the 101st Airborne.

Face it, JuNii--it is possible, no matter how unlikely you think it is. The important point here is that this sort of attack is done by an extremist, not your garden variety political type. So Serapindal's slam on leftists is bullshit, as is, quite frankly, your defense of his slam.A much as I said there is a slight possiblitiy of all your scenarios, the bigger posiblity is that it is Leftesits. Extremist, (I've never said it was mainstream) but it's still the bigger possiblity until more evidence is brought up. As for Serapindal's slam on Leftists, is that any way different than other threads SLAM on Religion, Bush, or America?

instead of condeming the extremists who are doing this, you are actually trying to find ways of saying the person(s) doing this are not leftists at all.

Serapindal has a right to his opinions as do we all (yet people condem him for his views without even thinking about what is being presented.) I condem all Extremists. left or right (is there a centralist Extemist?) and I condem such actions weither it be to a home or to an abortion clinic or an anti/pro gay event.

You know, I was really kind of torn when I first read this. Those of you who happen to be familiar with my previous handling of this thread [note the time gap in early postings] will find this statement doubly hilarious.

At any rate, I'm definately not a Bush republican, and I don't really have any lost love for the left. I'm only twenty and I'm becoming alarmed with the traditional reactionary's edict of them being 'young punks'--mostly because it is to some degree true. It's not generally disputed that people tend to vandalize things more when they're younger--and in point of fact a lot of us happen to sit on the left. A household like this is prime real estate for a good old American politically motivated crime.

I was on the fence until I read this:

Face it, JuNii--it is possible, no matter how unlikely you think it is. The important point here is that this sort of attack is done by an extremist, not your garden variety political type. So Serapindal's slam on leftists is bullshit, as is, quite frankly, your defense of his slam.
Excellent point. I think the property damage alone defines them as "extremists" regardless of how mainstream their views might happen to be.

I'm not going to say I was debating whther or not to categorize the Left on virtue of these actions, at least not in the wide-reaching sort of sense Serapindal seems to be implying. I suppose I was wondering if this should make me any angrier at the Left, but thanks to The Nazz, that hasn't happened.

But I'm still pissed at y'all, just so you know.

But I'm still pissed at y'all, just so you know.

Meh, what else is new?

Just because someone's liberal doesn't mean they are some sort of super passive machine. We're all human and have breaking points somewhere. Heck, even I get pissed off sometimes...like now...about this dumb thread.

A much as I said there is a slight possiblitiy of all your scenarios, the bigger posiblity is that it is Leftesits. Extremist, (I've never said it was mainstream) but it's still the bigger possiblity until more evidence is brought up. As for Serapindal's slam on Leftists, is that any way different than other threads SLAM on Religion, Bush, or America?

In this case, JuNii, there's a huge difference. An attack on Bush for his policies or his statements is an attack on, sadly enough, the mainstream, inasmuch as he was elected by a majority of Americans. Now we can argue all night long whether or not Bush actually represents mainstream America (I don't think he does), but when the votes were counted, enough people said he did.

When you get to more amorphous subjects like religion, America, the left or the right, then you're in similar territory to this slam by Serapindal, because you're talking about groups so large and varied that any generalization is bound to be faulty, which is precisely why I'm offering up so many plausible scenarios as to why this wasn't necessarily leftists who did it. I'm as guilty as anyone of making sweeping generalizations, but I try to be as specific as I can because I know it's an issue.

And Melkor, you're right about the assumption that it's young people being an issue. As for being pissed at us, well, can't help that. Different world view and all. Although I still say that when it comes to personal liberty, you'd be more at home with us than with the right. :D

And Melkor, you're right about the assumption that it's young people being an issue. As for being pissed at us, well, can't help that. Different world view and all. Although I still say that when it comes to personal liberty, you'd be more at home with us than with the right. :D
You're damn right about that. I can't stand conventional right wing social politics. That shit drives me nuts.

Is it just me or has Seripindal made a name for himself for exactly the wrong reasons?

I'm quite a tolerant guy but his views are just way TOOOOOOOO extreme... :)

One right wing man does not represent the entire right.
One, or one group of, leftist/s does not represent the entire left.

Thread = ridiculous.

You're damn right about that. I can't stand conventional right wing social politics. That shit drives me nuts.
I know you'll disagree with me on this, but I can live with that--the desire for personal social liberty is what drives me to the left politically, even though there are parts of the general philosophy that I disagree with. I look at it as a trade-off--in order to get the personal liberty I desire, I'm willing to sacrifice some stuff, most notably in the realm of taxation and the military (by which I mean I wish we had a less activist military policy, and I'll sacrifice that in favor of personal liberty).

but why "Murders" and "Bush Nazi" surely someone without a political agenda (personal that may be, but still a political Mindset) would use different sloagans...Maybe they're Nazis and support Bush? And of course, Nazis do tend to enjoy murder.

Please, please, please can people stop creating threads and/or replying to them saying "Look at this appalling action by a few people - they must be representative of the Left/Right/terrorists/warriors of freedom and democracy/French/Americans/Chinese/(whoever) and it would be unconscionable for any human being of intelligence to support them!!!" It is not a way to begin reasonable discussion; it's just low-level flaming; "toasting", perhaps?

What happened here, strongly-worded news articles aside, is a man's house was vandalised. Anyone who knows the mentality of sub-gang groups of kids knows that vandalisation is not something they do because of a cause - it's something they do anyway, to bus stops, to phone booths and to walls everywhere, but just like they will choose to bully the kid at school who stands out because of his red hair, glasses or muscular dystrophy they'll zero in on the place in their neighbourhood that stands out. I'm willing to bet it's become a test of manhood to these kids to tear down the flags. I'm willing to bet they dare each other into it, which is why it's kept happening. They don't have a political agenda; they just think, like all teenagers, that rebellion against symbols of authority is big and manly.

Or, alternatively, this might be full-grown anti-Right idiots whose organisation and ambition are both so pathetic that the best they can do is vandalise someone's house. Please.

Well it's got to be from a leftist. After all, people who think the 101st (who the article distinctly points out 'led the charge' to defeat Hitler) is a bunch of murderers must be leftists and not, perhaps, skinheads themselves.
Yeah, um....just wondering if this is, like, sarcasm or something. Because part of me SO BADLY wishes to correct you, but if you're not serious, I'd rather hate to make a mockery of this post.

Unless someone can provide evidence that other Not so blatent homes, are being vandalized......
Wish I could cite specific articles, but alas, our hometown newspaper doesn't archive. We've had a lot of juvenile fuckheads running around torching American flags, spray painting (sadly misproportioned) Anarchy signs on houses that have Republican signs in the front, egging cars in front of said houses (even the ones with the anti-Bush bumper stickers, just to prove a point). You know who it turned out to be when they got caught two weeks ago? Three twelve year old boys. No real political statement, but they'd got the impression from their older, cooler friends that Bush was a prick and that the only people that supported him were uneducated slobs or so disgustingly rich that they couldn't be touched. Of course, in our community, it was only these "rich" people who were being punished, so to speak, but still. You think these kids can be marked as leftist extremists? I know one of 'em (younger cousin of my friend; we used to babysit him) and I can say, he's got all the makings of the very Republican stereotype he thought he was breaking down.

The point is, if it IS kids (which I'm more inclined to believe), you can't even rely on the possibility that they're at all well-informed on anything relating to this crap.