NationStates Jolt Archive

Winne the Pooh and Piglet, too!

More P.C. run amok (http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=50464). I didn't realize looking at pigs was offensive to Muslims. That religion seems to be offended by damned near everything. They need to visit my little farm and find out how much fun Wilbur and Orville can be.

Why is it always Great Britain that bends over backwards to appease the Muslims? I figured it'd be the US looking silly in that department. But I guess we're too busy making sure no NCAA teams are named after American Indian tribes.

FFS they're complaining about little pieces of rubber shaped like pigs and images of pigs or piglet from winnie the pooh? They should have fired everyone who complained on the spot, arrested them and deported the fuckers. Anyone who takes their religion's condemnation of pork to that extreme is a terrorist waiting to happen.

What? I thought Islam was only opposed to eating pigs.

Then again, a man's rationality is completely unrelated to his religion. :(

Ummmm, I'm Muslim, and all I do is not eat pigs. I don't eat dogs or cats either, and I'm not offended by them. Pigs are just another animal. Big deal.

This whole thing sounds really weird to me.

Wow, your thread title was way off the mark. It was toy pigs in one office in one UK city.

Wow, your thread title was way off the mark. It was toy pigs in one office in one UK city.
Yeah, I thought that London had the British had banned the wandering herds of pigs that their cities have long been famous for.

Man ... we have really got ya'll scared. Anything we complain about and you'll bend over backwards to make sure it gets resolved. Got ya'll so terrified that we're gonna blow you up if you don't replace all the darjeeling with chai that I bet I can make someone go personally to India just to get the good stuff for me.

That was sarcasm ... well ... a little. Anyone with any lick of sense knows that Muslims aren't offended by pigs, we just don't eat them.

If ya'll would actually study us rather than cowering in fear of us, you might not have to read stories like this anymore. You can simply say to the Muslim, "Oh, you. Stop pullin' my leg." and laugh with us, rather than by being laughed at by us.

[note: the "you" in this post referrs to the general population and not to a specific individual.]

Wow, your thread title was way off the mark. It was toy pigs in one office in one UK city.
That's bad enough. Not even your government should be that ... I can't think of a good word ... arrogant, appeasing, complicit, stupid. Next thing will be bans on bacon and eggs in public places because the cooking utensils and silverware are shared.

That's bad enough. Not even your government should be that ... I can't think of a good word ... arrogant, appeasing, complicit, stupid. Next thing will be bans on bacon and eggs in public places because the cooking utensils and silverware are shared.
Yea, because the slippery slope is a proven and well respected argument.


And our government didn't do it...some bored div in a council office did.

Man ... we have really got ya'll scared. Anything we complain about and you'll bend over backwards to make sure it gets resolved. Got ya'll so terrified that we're gonna blow you up if you don't replace all the darjeeling with chai that I bet I can make someone go personally to India just to get the good stuff for me.

That was sarcasm ... well ... a little. Anyone with any lick of sense knows that Muslims aren't offended by pigs, we just don't eat them.

If ya'll would actually study us rather than cowering in fear of us, you might not have to read stories like this anymore. You can simply say to the Muslim, "Oh, you. Stop pullin' my leg." and laugh with us, rather than by being laughed at by us.

[note: the "you" in this post referrs to the general population and not to a specific individual.]
The way you put things is hilarious.

The way you put things is hilarious.

Well I try.

If ya'll would actually study us rather than cowering in fear of us, you might not have to read stories like this anymore. You can simply say to the Muslim, "Oh, you. Stop pullin' my leg." and laugh with us, rather than by being laughed at by us.

[note: the "you" in this post referrs to the general population and not to a specific individual.]

Exactly, there are always going to be idiots and people who just like causing trouble, but this council boss had to be pretty damn ignorant to take it seriously. And then other ignorant people attach this sort of stupidity to the whole religion...

the only thing wrong with piglet was that he eats ham which is just not right... :headbang:

the only thing wrong with piglet was that he eats ham which is just not right... :headbang:

LMAO! That's right. That is weird. But then again, my Conures (parrots) eat chicken eggs, which is really very healthy for them. Seems pretty wrong to me, but ah well, 'tis a strange world.

I agree lets get rid of all PC!

Let's start calling the disabled cripples, black people coloureds, gay men queers etc etc

Lets grow up.

The story was that a council member took down all pig toys without any consultation with the muslim community. He was an idiot.

Lets also get some context considering 40,000 muslims are currently dead in Pakistan.

If ya'll would actually study us rather than cowering in fear of us, you might not have to read stories like this anymore. You can simply say to the Muslim, "Oh, you. Stop pullin' my leg." and laugh with us, rather than by being laughed at by us.


Sorry, but we tend to be afraid of people who's molecular instability causes them to explode if they come too close to something jewish or if they are in crowded areas full of innocent people.

(yes, I know suicide bombers are only extremists, not all muslims, but extremist muslims don't wear klan hoods or wear T-shirts that say "beware- may explode)

But seriously, the problem is Americans/westerners are terrified of anyone willing to die for religion. Even the old IRA and Ulster Unionists (both of which I consider religious terrorists) didn't blow themselves up, just other people. It is this disregard for ones own life that we find so disturbing. I for one am completely incapable of seeing ANY philosophy or religion that condones suicide as anything but brainwashing. It is completely against human nature to kill oneself. That is why the Japanese were seen as such a terrible enemy in WWII. When Kamakaze attacks began, they were so disturbing to Americans that it was easy to make the decision to drop the bomb- no one wanted to invade an island of people who's culture/government had brainwashed them into believing suicide was a good thing. Terrorism of any kind is reprehensible, but killing yourself in the name of god or country makes Americans in particular very nervous.

~Eats a B.L.T. and shrugs~

Winne the Pooh and Piglet, too!

More P.C. run amok (http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=50464). I didn't realize looking at pigs was offensive to Muslims. That religion seems to be offended by damned near everything. They need to visit my little farm and find out how much fun Wilbur and Orville can be.

Why is it always Great Britain that bends over backwards to appease the Muslims? I figured it'd be the US looking silly in that department. But I guess we're too busy making sure no NCAA teams are named after American Indian tribes.
What, they're even against other people owning pig toys? This is ridiculous. They should be soaking effigies of the London bombers in pigs' blood.

All Britain has to do now is ban Jews, Wine, Women in public, haircuts and shaving and maybe, just maybe, Moslems will be kind enough to allow a few of them to live in slavery.

“Extremists” are not the problem, neither are terrorists. The problem is a doctrine that mandates making the world, Islam.

“Moderate Moslems” only “Moderately” want to kill you.

I agree lets get rid of all PC!

Let's start calling the disabled cripples, black people coloureds, gay men queers etc etc

Lets grow up.

The story was that a council member took down all pig toys without any consultation with the muslim community. He was an idiot.

Lets also get some context considering 40,000 muslims are currently dead in Pakistan.


Thousands of Moslems would not be dead in Pakistan, if they had not driven all the Hindus and Zoroastrians out.

Sorry, but we tend to be afraid of people who's molecular instability causes them to explode if they come too close to something jewish or if they are in crowded areas full of innocent people.
Now here is where I could say: "Innocent Jews would really make them explode, fortunately there aren't any", but I won't. That joke would be really, really wrong, and not that funny. However, I had to preemptively make it and shoot myself down as a barrier against Nazis. Now I might just go and report myself to the mods.
Lets also get some context considering 40,000 muslims are currently dead in Pakistan.
Um, can you put the context in context? I mean, I am pretty sure that there are a lot of dead people currently hard at work being dead everywhere that they don't practice cermonial canabalism and cremation.
Or maybe that goddamn Pig Mafia struck again and killed all of the Muslims. In which case I understand why muslims don't want emblems of Piglet the Face around to remind him of his criminal enterprise.

I honestly can't believe some of the opinions I've seen expressed here. It makes me very sad, because I don't think anyone really understands anyone else here. Muslims are humans, just like anyone else. And everyone has their extremists. I can name terrorists in every country and religious group. Big deal.

If you really think Islam condones suicide and violence, read the Qur'an. (A full, accurate, unabridged translation, not one of the "cut and paste" types.) Better to get the information straight from the source, than to get it secondhand. (Or thirdhand, or fourthhand...)

Even the old IRA and Ulster Unionists (both of which I consider religious terrorists)LOL at this. Sorry to hijack the thread, but a person considering the Ulster Unionists terrorists, and then admitting to it, is one of the funniest things I've seen in ages.

Hides Crusader pig-head catapaults ...

All Britain has to do now is ban Jews, Wine, Women in public, haircuts and shaving and maybe, just maybe, Moslems will be kind enough to allow a few of them to live in slavery.

“Extremists” are not the problem, neither are terrorists. The problem is a doctrine that mandates making the world, Islam.

“Moderate Moslems” only “Moderately” want to kill you.

...wow. That's... possibly the most racist thing I've read here, not including sarcasm and/or satire. Moreover, try reading the thread, at least. It's already been established this is a massive media overreaction to the action of a petty, small-minded Office Bastard somewhere. It doesn't come close to Birmingham's temporary disastrous rechristening of Christmas to "the Midwinter Festival", so don't even try to portray it as some kind of move toward the voluntary assimilation of the West by militant extremists - sorry, you don't believe the problem is extremists, you just seem to think it's any Muslim.

It's already been established this is a massive media overreaction

Dude, It's two and a half paragraphs in the Sun. Hardly a massive media overreaction.

Dude, It's two and a half paragraphs in the Sun. Hardly a massive media overreaction.

I meant the terming of it as "Pigs removed from British cities to please Muslims".

I meant the terming of it as "Pigs removed from British cities to please Muslims".

So you're saying that it should have read:

"All symbols that could be interpreted as remotely being pigs (such as Piglet) are being removed from UK government offices and paperwork in order to please Muslims"

You want to be specific? How about a council office, like it actually says in the article? This isn't some government-wide decision, this is the PC fetish of some middle manager in Dudley, of all places, near the nominal home of British political correctness. Yes, it's ridiculous, but stop trying to make out like it's some kind of massive capitulation, like the British government telling its citizens it's now illegal to eat between sunrise and sunset for a month a year!

You want to be specific? How about *a* council office, like it actually says in the article?

It won't be the last one, I bet.

It won't be the last one, I bet.

No, it probably won't be, because pointy-haired management is an unfortunately self-replicating phenomenon. But eventually someone will complain loud enough about it that it'll reach big media attention, at which point there will be a court case and it will be thrown out. Because that's how these things work. Like fucking Creationism in the States, except the government supports that.

Well , it depends on the sensibiltiy of the person. I do not believe that it is offensive to see pig toys in Muslim tradition. And I believe he thread is a bit radical.

...wow. That's... possibly the most racist thing I've read here, not including sarcasm and/or satire. Moreover, try reading the thread, at least. It's already been established this is a massive media overreaction to the action of a petty, small-minded Office Bastard somewhere. It doesn't come close to Birmingham's temporary disastrous rechristening of Christmas to "the Midwinter Festival", so don't even try to portray it as some kind of move toward the voluntary assimilation of the West by militant extremists - sorry, you don't believe the problem is extremists, you just seem to think it's any Muslim.


I think it’s only the Moslems who practice, complying with the Koran by “Going forth in boldness”, “Smiting the infidels above their necks and all of their fingertips”, “putting their wealth and resources and lives towards the Jihad” and “Fighting until all bow down to Allah”.

Moslem extremists are not the problem, ideology is the problem. Just as Nazi extremists were not the problem and Ku Klux Klan extremists are not the problem. As I said before, moderate Moslems only Moderately want to kill you. So do moderate Nazis. Moderate Klan members only want to kill you if you are a free non-Caucasian.

Just wait awhile and that “Midwinter Festival” will be replaced with Ramadan.

Of course, it's typical of liberal people in this country. They're always obsessed with appeasing the followers of a religion that wants to destroy our way of life.

Yeah, I thought that London had the British had banned the wandering herds of pigs that their cities have long been famous for.

Those fiends! How can they expect the British to live without their pigs!

I think it’s only the Moslems who practice, complying with the Koran by “Going forth in boldness”, “Smiting the infidels above their necks and all of their fingertips”, “putting their wealth and resources and lives towards the Jihad” and “Fighting until all bow down to Allah”.

Moslem extremists are not the problem, ideology is the problem. Just as Nazi extremists were not the problem and Ku Klux Klan extremists are not the problem. As I said before, moderate Moslems only Moderately want to kill you. So do moderate Nazis. Moderate Klan members only want to kill you if you are a free non-Caucasian.

Just wait awhile and that “Midwinter Festival” will be replaced with Ramadan.

There is not one single ounce of truth to anything in this post. First of all, nowhere in Qur'an is the word "infidel" used. Second, going forth boldly and smiting the enemy, etc, is during war ... not just on general principle.

Maybe you should read Qur'an sometime instead of just picking two or three words here and there.

Also, Ramadan is in early Autumn, not Winter, so it could never replace any form of "mid-Winter" anything.

appeasing the followers of a religion that wants to destroy our way of life.

What part of my religion wants to destroy your way of life?

What have I ever done to in any way express that I want to destroy your way of life?

Where in Qur'an am I commanded to destroy your way of life?

"Confound not truth with falsehood, nor knowingly conceal the truth." Quran 2:42

So, enlighten me. Speak the truth and I shall listen. Truth stands out clearly from error, so you should have no problem backing up that which you claim.

I am a Muslim. Please, show the forum how it is my job to destroy *anything*.

What part of my religion wants to destroy your way of life?

What have I ever done to in any way express that I want to destroy your way of life?

Where in Qur'an am I commanded to destroy your way of life?

"Confound not truth with falsehood, nor knowingly conceal the truth." Quran 2:42

So, enlighten me. Speak the truth and I shall listen. Truth stands out clearly from error, so you should have no problem backing up that which you claim.

I am a Muslim. Please, show the forum how it is my job to destroy *anything*.
Actions speak louder than words. Previous experience has shown me the true colours of muslims. I've seen what you're all like. I grew up in a town full of muslims. The more muslims came into the town the worse it got. No-go areas were set up where no white person would dare to go. Crime was disproportionately commited by muslims. Trust me, my father's a police officer. So far he's spent his career arresting them and even tackled one of them as he was burgling our house. Rapes were disproportionately committed by guess who. But it serves the infidels right I suppose? And finally when people started getting sick of the shit that was being thrown at them, the muslims went on a riotous rampage and destroyed half the town.

That's why I hate muslims.

What part of my religion wants to destroy your way of life?

What have I ever done to in any way express that I want to destroy your way of life?

Where in Qur'an am I commanded to destroy your way of life?

"Confound not truth with falsehood, nor knowingly conceal the truth." Quran 2:42

So, enlighten me. Speak the truth and I shall listen. Truth stands out clearly from error, so you should have no problem backing up that which you claim.

I am a Muslim. Please, show the forum how it is my job to destroy *anything*.

Alright, you realise he is talking about the UK don't you?

Actions speak louder than words. Previous experience has shown me the true colours of muslims. I've seen what you're all like. I grew up in a town full of muslims. The more muslims came into the town the worse it got. No-go areas were set up where no white person would dare to go.

Well ... aren't we ignorant and bigoted ....

Actions speak louder than words, eh? So what have my actions been? What have I done that you would hold against me something for which I was not a part?

Oh, and guess what .... I AM WHITE! I'm an Irish Jew by birth.

Muslims come in all colors, nationalities, and backgrounds.

I'm sorry that you've been given this impression, and I'm even sorrier that you will probably take it with you to your grave. I will pray for you.

Incidently, you didn't answer my challenge ...

Alright, you realise he is talking about the UK don't you?

*shrug* .... Ignorance abounds the world over ... it's not uniquely American. ;)

*shrug* .... Ignorance abounds the world over ... it's not uniquely American. ;)

You don't think that the original inhabitants have the right to preserve their culture and traditions then? Or is it only native peoples and muslims that should be allowed to defend their cultural institutions and freedoms?

You don't think that the original inhabitants have the right to preserve their culture and traditions then? Or is it only native peoples and muslims that should be allowed to defend their cultural institutions and freedoms?

Would said original inhabitants you're referring to be the Jutes, Angles, Saxons, or perhaps the Neanderthal? I'm all for Neanderthal rights.

I simply asked him to show me where it says that I, as a Muslim, am supposed to try to destroy things. He's not done it yet.

He did, however, admit that it's from his own person experience and preconceived notions and, thus, is not based in fact. I can only pray that he strives to overcome his ignorance.

You don't think that the original inhabitants have the right to preserve their culture and traditions then? Or is it only native peoples and muslims that should be allowed to defend their cultural institutions and freedoms?
Of course they don't. They won't be happy until we have beards like santa claus and our women wear tents.

And Keruvalia, to answer you question about how muslims want to destroy our way of life, I'm not particularly concerned with what's written in the koran. I've seen so many cases where muslims want to extinguish the local culture and turn their area into somewhere identical to back home. When they spread, this is what will keep happening. Until eventually muslims become a majority and turn Britain into a taliban state. Maybe you haven't done anything directly to me, but that's only because we live far away enough from each other.

Of course they don't. They won't be happy until we have beards like santa claus and our women wear tents.

Strange .... my wife wears shorts in public and never covers her hair and even shakes men's hands and hugs her male friends! Your stereotyping is almost comical ... you must be someone's puppet.

I'm not particularly concerned with what's written in the koran.

Maybe you should be.

I've seen so many cases where muslims want to extinguish the local culture and turn their area into somewhere identical to back home.

What is "back home"?!

I was born and raised in Texas. "Back home" for me is Texas. I don't think I'll be coming to the UK to try and make it more like Texas ....

You do realise that less than 13% of the world's Muslims are Arabs, do you not?

That's bad enough. Not even your government should be that ... I can't think of a good word ... arrogant, appeasing, complicit, stupid. Next thing will be bans on bacon and eggs in public places because the cooking utensils and silverware are shared.
You might want to take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Strange .... my wife wears shorts in public and never covers her hair and even shakes men's hands and hugs her male friends! Your stereotyping is almost comical ... you must be someone's puppet.
It was tongue-in-cheek.

What is "back home"?!

I was born and raised in Texas. "Back home" for me is Texas. I don't think I'll be coming to the UK to try and make it more like Texas ....

You do realise that less than 13% of the world's Muslims are Arabs, do you not?
I realise that most muslims aren't arabs, and that you do get white muslims. It's just that the vast majority of muslims are either foreign or of foreign descent. The amount of white muslims is currently far too tiny to constitute a serious threat.

Actions speak louder than words. Previous experience has shown me the true colours of muslims. I've seen what you're all like. I grew up in a town full of muslims. The more muslims came into the town the worse it got. No-go areas were set up where no white person would dare to go. Crime was disproportionately commited by muslims. Trust me, my father's a police officer. So far he's spent his career arresting them and even tackled one of them as he was burgling our house. Rapes were disproportionately committed by guess who. But it serves the infidels right I suppose? And finally when people started getting sick of the shit that was being thrown at them, the muslims went on a riotous rampage and destroyed half the town.

That's why I hate muslims.

You are from Bradford?

You are from Bradford?
Burnley.

I realise that most muslims aren't arabs, and that you do get white muslims. It's just that the vast majority of muslims are either foreign or of foreign descent. The amount of white muslims is currently far too tiny to constitute a serious threat.

Might want to rethink that ...

http://www.geocities.com/jrhalver/famous.html

That's just the famous White Muslims. There are actually hundreds of thousands of us. Incidenly, there are more White Muslims in the world than there are members of al-Qaeda.

If we wanted to be dangerous, we could be. Easily.

Of course they don't. They won't be happy until we have beards like santa claus and our women wear tents.

And Keruvalia, to answer you question about how muslims want to destroy our way of life, I'm not particularly concerned with what's written in the koran. I've seen so many cases where muslims want to extinguish the local culture and turn their area into somewhere identical to back home. When they spread, this is what will keep happening. Until eventually muslims become a majority and turn Britain into a taliban state. Maybe you haven't done anything directly to me, but that's only because we live far away enough from each other.

Your textbook ignorance is beginning to annoy me. Listen to yourself man. It's pitiful, just pitiful. That you'd blindly judge someone who you've never even laid eyes on, just based on their religion, is totally inexplicable.

Work on your logic. Same goes for the rest of you guys insulting Keruvalia too. Get your minds out of the gutter.

Would said original inhabitants you're referring to be the Jutes, Angles, Saxons, or perhaps the Neanderthal? I'm all for Neanderthal rights.

I simply asked him to show me where it says that I, as a Muslim, am supposed to try to destroy things. He's not done it yet.

He did, however, admit that it's from his own person experience and preconceived notions and, thus, is not based in fact. I can only pray that he strives to overcome his ignorance.

Most people in the UK are in fact desended from Angles, Saxons, Celts and Scandinavians. There never were neanderthals as far as I know, settlement there occured rather late, what with it being so far north (Around 8000 BC, later than the US for example).

In any case, all he's advocating is the preservation of british cultural integrity, - something I have noticed that you have no problem with Saudi Arabia doing - not actually personally accusing you of destroying things. Mostly because you are in texas and not the UK.

They're always obsessed with appeasing the followers of a religion that wants to destroy our way of life.

Which is not an altogether inaccurate characterization. Muslims in england (not all of them but the ones with a voice) have demanded and suceeded in have christianity removed from the schools, christmas renamed, and the introduction of silly hate crime laws amongst other things. I would say that is a fairly sucessful effort in respect of erroding British culture.

What galls me most is, if you want to practice islam, why the fuck do it in england? English people want no part of it. Do it somewhere else.

Somewhere,

The incidents you said..did they happen during what is known as the Bradford riots?

Most people in the UK are in fact desended from Angles, Saxons, Celts and Scandinavians. There never were neanderthals as far as I know, settlement there occured rather late, what with it being so far north (Around 8000 BC, later than the US for example).

Well I guess it would be difficult for Neanderthals to get there ... no boats and all that. All that is well and good, but from what I've read, Saxons and Celts weren't exactly great with women and human rights either.

Anything anyone can accuse Muslims of doing will never compare to the brutal Saxons. Do ya'll really want that culture preserved?

In any case, all he's advocating is the preservation of british cultural integrity, - something I have noticed that you have no problem with Saudi Arabia doing - not actually personally accusing you of destroying things.

True ... I do advocate Saudi staying an Islamic nation. However, you'll also notice that I constantly call out the Saud family on their human rights violations and treatment of women as these things are not Qur'an, are not Islamic, and not proper Muslim behaviour. Saudi can stay Muslim, yes, but Qur'an speaks of elections and democracy. A Kingdom should not be any part of any nation proclaiming itself "Muslim".

I would say that is a fairly sucessful effort in respect of erroding British culture.

Meh ... how far back do you want to go? There've been Muslims in England since before the Crusades. That's a long time. Can they not be considered part of the "cultural heritage"?

What galls me most is, if you want to practice islam, why the fuck do it in england? English people want no part of it. Do it somewhere else.

The millions of Muslim English citizens (subjects?) probably disagree with you.

Might want to rethink that ...

http://www.geocities.com/jrhalver/famous.html

That's just the famous White Muslims. There are actually hundreds of thousands of us. Incidenly, there are more White Muslims in the world than there are members of al-Qaeda.

If we wanted to be dangerous, we could be. Easily.
True, but most white muslims are isolated in slavic countries where they don't pose a threat. A foreign threat is easier to deal with than a domestic one. And if white muslims in the UK started to pose a serious threat to the pysical safety of the general population, they would be sufficiently small in numbers to eliminate.

Which is not an altogether inaccurate characterization. Muslims in england (not all of them but the ones with a voice) have demanded and suceeded in have christianity removed from the schools, christmas renamed, and the introduction of silly hate crime laws amongst other things. I would say that is a fairly sucessful effort in respect of erroding British culture.

What galls me most is, if you want to practice islam, why the fuck do it in england? English people want no part of it. Do it somewhere else.
Exactly. Muslims in the UK demand that we change our ways for their sake, and our pathetic, weak-kneed establishment surrenders. That's how muslims threaten our culture and way of life.

Somewhere,

The incidents you said..did they happen during what is known as the Bradford riots?
The destruction of Burnley in the summer of 2001 was part of the race riots that were in the three northern towns - Burnley, Bradford and Oldham. But the social situation Burnley was in is something that existed long before.

1) It's from the SUN for pete's sake -- the UK equivalent of the US's National Enquirer.

2) It's in one office, for pete's sake. The British Way of Life is not being changed wholesale.

3) The office manager is a wimp and a fool for not laughing out loud and then saying, "Wait... you're not actually serious, are you?"

4) Office etiquette: don't look into other people's cubes to find something to be offended about -- and don't put anything into other people's cubes that might offend them.

There never were neanderthals as far as I know, settlement there occured rather late, what with it being so far north (Around 8000 BC, later than the US for example).

IIRC, Neanderthals went extinct and modern human species does not have any descendents from neanderthals.


Keruvalia,

There've been Muslims in England since before the Crusades. That's a long time. Can they not be considered part of the "cultural heritage"?

British who practice Islam - I don't think there is any problem there.

Muslims in Britain demanding and enforcing what they say is part of their religion and that other non-muslim British have to abide by it - now that's a problem.

IIRC, Neanderthals went extinct and modern human species does not have any descendents from neanderthals.

I dunno .... sometimes I look at some people and think .... what if ....

British who practice Islam - I don't think there is any problem there.

I would hope not.

Muslims in Britain demanding and enforcing what they say is part of their religion and that other non-muslim British have to abide by it - now that's a problem.

Yes, I agree ... that's a problem. It is against Islam for a Muslim to force his way on anyone. It even says in Qur'an that it is Allah who guides or leads astray whom Allah chooses. It's not up to us.

As I said earlier in this thread, if people would study us rather than make assumptions, they'd have a hell of a lot easier time dealing with us. Just pointing out the above paragraph would give any Muslim trying to force his way on someone a moment of pause. However, the going thing is "I don't care what Qur'an says" ....

Well ... if you did .... *coff* ....

Anything anyone can accuse Muslims of doing will never compare to the brutal Saxons. Do ya'll really want that culture preserved?

I don't think the saxons were all that brutal for the time, they had courts and juries before anyone else.

But I wasn't discussing the relative merits of dark age culture. My question was whether or not you believe that the original inhabitants of a place have the right to defend their culture - whether you believe it is worthwhile or not - and if that choice should be respected. I mean if you think it is just part and parcel of immigration patterns, and that over time new groups will arrive and sometimes replace the older culture with a foreign one fine: But then there is no point in getting angry at christians in the US, or christians that go to islamic nations and hand out bibles. It's just two sides of the same coin.


True ... I do advocate Saudi staying an Islamic nation. However, you'll also notice that I constantly call out the Saud family on their human rights violations and treatment of women as these things are not Qur'an, are not Islamic, and not proper Muslim behaviour. Saudi can stay Muslim, yes, but Qur'an speaks of elections and democracy. A Kingdom should not be any part of any nation proclaiming itself "Muslim".

And there are people in england, whose families have been there for thousand of years that advocate it staying a christian nation. They have just as much right to offhandedly reject islam as saudi does christainity. You cannot support one, and on the other condemn people in england that wish islam to be curtailed. Again two sides of the same coin.

Meh ... how far back do you want to go? There've been Muslims in England since before the Crusades. That's a long time. Can they not be considered part of the "cultural heritage"?

What muslims were these? For a large part of english history just being a catholic was enough for a heavy fine, if not a trip to the fires. Of course, as a trading nation there have been contacts with islam, but it is not part of the cultural heritage of the island at all. (Jews on the other hand do have a place after 1650 or so, and before Edward the I). In any case, there are significant stretches where the number of muslims was probably zero and no-one even knew what it was. The majority of muslims in the UK today chose to emigrate there, and mostly in the past forty years. If they are so offended by christmas and being made to say prayers to jesus they probably shouldn't have come.


The millions of Muslim English citizens (subjects?) probably disagree with you.

Immigrants, who knew the set up when they came. Like I said, if being a muslim is that important, they probably should have gone somewhere else, like the US where religious freedom is guaranteed.

1) It's from the SUN for pete's sake -- the UK equivalent of the US's National Enquirer.

It's not, actually.

IIRC, Neanderthals went extinct and modern human species does not have any descendents from neanderthals.


I know, but I am fairly sure that they also never settled in the British Isles.

Immigrants, who knew the set up when they came. Like I said, if being a muslim is that important, they probably should have gone somewhere else, like the US where religious freedom is guaranteed.

Meh ... you're probably right. Seems a little pompous and obnoxious (heh ... but it is Brits we're talking about ;) ) an attitude, but it makes sense.

I do say the same to Christians who complain about restrictions in Saudi. Not the smartest place to go if you want to be openly Christian.

Here would be fine. We'll take them if ya'll want to ship them out. We can remind them of the Davidians and such as to how we deal swiftly and violently with cult groups that get out of hand so they'd better at least be on good behaviour.

Meh ... you're probably right. Seems a little pompous and obnoxious (heh ... but it is Brits we're talking about ;) ) an attitude, but it makes sense.

I do say the same to Christians who complain about restrictions in Saudi. Not the smartest place to go if you want to be openly Christian.

Here would be fine. We'll take them if ya'll want to ship them out. We can remind them of the Davidians and such as to how we deal swiftly and violently with cult groups that get out of hand so they'd better at least be on good behaviour.
That doesn't sound too unreasonable. I don't have much time for westerners who complain about the way muslim countries like Saudi Arabia act. If we're not living there then how they treat their own people isn't our problem. And if westerners move there they know what they're getting themselves in for when they go. All I want is for our authorities to stop treating this country as a doormat for muslims to wipe their feet on.

Meh ... you're probably right. Seems a little pompous and obnoxious (heh ... but it is Brits we're talking about ;) ) an attitude, but it makes sense.

I do say the same to Christians who complain about restrictions in Saudi. Not the smartest place to go if you want to be openly Christian.

Here would be fine. We'll take them if ya'll want to ship them out. We can remind them of the Davidians and such as to how we deal swiftly and violently with cult groups that get out of hand so they'd better at least be on good behaviour.

It's actually an interesting comparison with Saudi. Both countries wanted economic immigrants (people to do low cost work), and both accepted immigrants with vastly different religious convictions. I don't get it. You'd think that the Fillipinas would make more sense in the UK, and the Pakistanis in Saudi.

Yeah, I thought that London had the British had banned the wandering herds of pigs that their cities have long been famous for.

Those fiends! How can they expect the British to live without their pigs!

Don't worry, I am sure we will replace the American tourists somehow....

What part of my religion wants to destroy your way of life?

Hmm, how about that part that crashed airliners into the twin towers and the pentagon and would have hit someplace else but for the passengers taking a stand?

Oh, yeah, and that part that blew up trains in Spain.

Oh, wait, I forgot, the part that blew up trains and a bus in London

Oh, and that part that killed children in a school building in the former Soviet Union,

Oh, yeah, and that part that blew up a night club in Bali,

Oh, yeah, that part that continues to terrorize Israel and say they have no right to exist,

Oh, and that part in Saudi Arabia that funds terrorist organizations and refuses women the right to drive, get an education, etc.

Oh, and that part created an atmosphere requiring britishers in a certain to be afraid to display even a cartoon representation of a pig for fear of reprisal and condemnation.

Is that enough "parts" for you?

Sorry, I have no doubt that many, maybe even most, Muslims are good, decent, hardworking people. However, I see that the bulk of terrorist attacks around the world and criticism of American policies, coupled with an intent to end those policies by killing civilians, is being carried out by Muslims.

To the best of my knowledge, Christians haven't carried out "holy wars" in centuries. Muslims, on the other hand, have never stoppped and Buddhists, Druids, Taoists, Hindues, etc. never really ever started. You may be a "religion of peace" but until you reign in the radicals, you'll never be a people deserving of trust.

There is not one single ounce of truth to anything in this post. First of all, nowhere in Qur'an is the word "infidel" used. Second, going forth boldly and smiting the enemy, etc, is during war ... not just on general principle.

Maybe you should read Qur'an sometime instead of just picking two or three words here and there.

Also, Ramadan is in early Autumn, not Winter, so it could never replace any form of "mid-Winter" anything.


It is dated according to a lunar calendar that can shift around quite a bit.

The word “Infidel”, well that would depend on whether or not and how you translate the word “Non-Believer” wouldn’t it? Now, as Moslems are commanded to go to war “Until all Christians bow down and say Jesus is the Prophet of Allah and all Jews bow down and say Moses is the Prophet of Allah” and there are no longer Polytheists or Atheists anywhere in the world; then when exactly will Moslems not be at war?

Recall, that “If your enemy sues for peace”, you should accept that as an admission of weakness and inferiority and move in for the kill. Well I want no piece of peace.

You might want to take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope


Talking about the slippery slope is for those who do not understand Sorite’s/Sorties Paradox.

I am sure plenty of good and decent Moslems come here and do their part for the Jihad, proving the pen is mightier than the sword by making excuses for the mass murderers, mad clerics and dictators.


Hmm, how about that part that crashed airliners into the twin towers and the pentagon and would have hit someplace else but for the passengers taking a stand?

Oh, yeah, and that part that blew up trains in Spain.

Oh, wait, I forgot, the part that blew up trains and a bus in London

Oh, and that part that killed children in a school building in the former Soviet Union,

Oh, yeah, and that part that blew up a night club in Bali,

Oh, yeah, that part that continues to terrorize Israel and say they have no right to exist,

Oh, and that part in Saudi Arabia that funds terrorist organizations and refuses women the right to drive, get an education, etc.

Oh, and that part created an atmosphere requiring britishers in a certain to be afraid to display even a cartoon representation of a pig for fear of reprisal and condemnation.

Is that enough "parts" for you?

Sorry, I have no doubt that many, maybe even most, Muslims are good, decent, hardworking people. However, I see that the bulk of terrorist attacks around the world and criticism of American policies, coupled with an intent to end those policies by killing civilians, is being carried out by Muslims.

To the best of my knowledge, Christians haven't carried out "holy wars" in centuries. Muslims, on the other hand, have never stoppped and Buddhists, Druids, Taoists, Hindues, etc. never really ever started. You may be a "religion of peace" but until you reign in the radicals, you'll never be a people deserving of trust.

Hmm, how about that part that crashed airliners into the twin towers and the pentagon and would have hit someplace else but for the passengers taking a stand?

Oh, yeah, and that part that blew up trains in Spain.

Oh, wait, I forgot, the part that blew up trains and a bus in London

Oh, and that part that killed children in a school building in the former Soviet Union,

Oh, yeah, and that part that blew up a night club in Bali,

Oh, yeah, that part that continues to terrorize Israel and say they have no right to exist,

Oh, and that part in Saudi Arabia that funds terrorist organizations and refuses women the right to drive, get an education, etc.

Oh, and that part created an atmosphere requiring britishers in a certain to be afraid to display even a cartoon representation of a pig for fear of reprisal and condemnation.

Is that enough "parts" for you?


None of those parts are in Qur'an and, thus, are not part of the Muslim religion. Try again.

None of those parts are in Qur'an and, thus, are not part of the Muslim religion. Try again.

That is now officially called a "Sierraism"

Where you become an apologist by stating that "The people who did <insert insane act here> are not really <insert name of group they belonged to>".

That is now officially called a "Sierraism"

Where you become an apologist by stating that "The people who did <insert insane act here> are not really <insert name of group they belonged to>".

If someone claims to be Christian and then goes and murders people, denounces Jesus, and rapes little girls .... they are not Christian.

An apologist is a person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.

I'm not arguing a justification for any of the acts stated. There is no justification. All I am saying is that nothing in Islam allows such actions. I am further saying that just because someone claims themselves to be something, doesn't make it so.

To claim Islam allows you to kill the innocent is a lie. Debunking the lie doesn't make me an apologist.

If someone claims to be Christian and then goes and murders people, denounces Jesus, and rapes little girls .... they are not Christian.

An apologist is a person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.

I'm not arguing a justification for any of the acts stated. There is no justification. All I am saying is that nothing in Islam allows such actions. I am further saying that just because someone claims themselves to be something, doesn't make it so.

To claim Islam allows you to kill the innocent is a lie. Debunking the lie doesn't make me an apologist.

That's why we have a consolidated thread for apologists - for people who make these statements.

It would make more sense to say, "Islam is a fine religion, but it, like other religions, has a violent streak amongst its more radical adherents. Occasionally, these people take it upon themselves in a fundamentalist rage to do terrible things. For this, we are truly sorry - and we will educate our youth to avoid acting like that in the future."

Anything else is being an apologist.

It would make more sense to say, "Islam is a fine religion, but it, like other religions, has a violent streak amongst its more radical adherents. Occasionally, these people take it upon themselves in a fundamentalist rage to do terrible things. For this, we are truly sorry - and we will educate our youth to avoid acting like that in the future."

But that is a false statement and I will not buy into it. I will also never apologize for something I didn't do and have never been a part of.

Do you?

I am sure plenty of good and decent Moslems come here and do their part for the Jihad, proving the pen is mightier than the sword by making excuses for the mass murderers, mad clerics and dictators.

Wouldn't it be funny if I converted to Islam tomorrow, instantly becoming one of the evil warmongering creatures and earning your everlasting scorn? Then the next day I'd convert back and just like that I'd be on your good side again.

It would go a long way towards illustrating how ridiculous your notions are.

Why is it always Great Britain that bends over backwards to appease the Muslims? I figured it'd be the US looking silly in that department. But I guess we're too busy making sure no NCAA teams are named after American Indian tribes.

Muslims intergrate better in the US, so they don't get so nit-picky with their religion in regions of the country most don't end up in because they are focused on making a living. Most stay in the cities unless they are muslims that actually WANT to farm.

Wouldn't it be funny if I converted to Islam tomorrow, instantly becoming one of the evil warmongering creatures and earning your everlasting scorn? Then the next day I'd convert back and just like that I'd be on your good side again.

It would go a long way towards illustrating how ridiculous your notions are.

It wasn't so easy for John Walker Lindh to switch back, was it?

It wasn't so easy for John Walker Lindh to switch back, was it?

I wasn't aware he'd tried to switch back to Christianity. Did you get that from a diary entry of his?

I wasn't aware he'd tried to switch back to Christianity. Did you get that from a diary entry of his?

He pled guilty in front of a judge.

"I plead guilty," he said. "I provided my services as a soldier to the Taliban last year from about August to December. In the course of doing so, I carried a rifle and two grenades. I did so knowingly and willingly knowing that it was illegal."

He's doing 17 years in prison at a minimum. That's plenty of time to change his mind.

You don't think that the original inhabitants have the right to preserve their culture and traditions then? Or is it only native peoples and muslims that should be allowed to defend their cultural institutions and freedoms?
"Muslim freedoms"? Sounds like a paradox.

Strange .... my wife wears shorts in public and never covers her hair and even shakes men's hands and hugs her male friends! Your stereotyping is almost comical ... you must be someone's puppet.
Congratulations, you're part of the liberal Muslim minority (in the world). You're on the right (left?) side.

You do realise that less than 13% of the world's Muslims are Arabs, do you not?
I imagine that he was referring not only to Muslims from Arabia, but also those from all over the Middle East, North Africa and South East Asia.

That's not to say that I'm with Somewhere on everything. He's something of a hateful troll who unfairly stereotypes all Muslims, but his comments do have some basis in truth.

Well I guess it would be difficult for Neanderthals to get there ... no boats and all that. All that is well and good, but from what I've read, Saxons and Celts weren't exactly great with women and human rights either.
It's pitiful if modern Muslims can be compared at all to British people of 1,500 years ago.

Anything anyone can accuse Muslims of doing will never compare to the brutal Saxons. Do ya'll really want that culture preserved?
The Saxon culture no longer exists. The modern British culture has been developing since the 18th century.

True ... I do advocate Saudi staying an Islamic nation. However, you'll also notice that I constantly call out the Saud family on their human rights violations and treatment of women as these things are not Qur'an, are not Islamic, and not proper Muslim behaviour.

So you agree that Christians should not be allowed into Saudi Arabia, but you think that conservative Muslims should be allowed into the UK?

But that is a false statement and I will not buy into it. I will also never apologize for something I didn't do and have never been a part of.
Will, since you have volunteered to be part of this Muslim global collective, you cannot utterly sever yourself from the reality of the fundamentalist terrorism.

Winne the Pooh and Piglet, too!

More P.C. run amok (http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=50464). They need to visit my little farm and find out how much fun Wilbur and Orville can be.


You have pigs called orville and wilbur.

They even sound cute.

*runs off*

'Mum, I want a piglet!'

(Isnt wilbur in the film charlotte's web?)

You have pigs called orville and wilbur.

They even sound cute.

No, it sounds like our friend Myrmidonisia has named his pigs after Orville and Wilbur Wright, who first flew a plane in 1903.

None of those parts are in Qur'an and, thus, are not part of the Muslim religion. Try again.

Sorry, but this is where you are wrong.

Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. are all various sects of Christianity and all look to the Bible for authority. However, they all interpret the bible in different ways. Just as Christianity has various sects and divisions based on differing interpretations of the bible, the Muslim religion also has various sects based on differing interpretations of the Qur'an and sadly, on sect has interpreted it to call for their terrorist activities. They may not be members of your particular sect of Muslimism, but they are Muslim's nonetheless. Your saying they are not, doesn't make it so.

I don't ask you to apologize for what these whacko muslims have done. I do ask you as a Muslim yourself though to denounce what they have done in the name of your religion and help "reign them in." If these are a small lunatic fringe, then why aren't the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims denouncing them and calling on them to stop? I know some are and have, but most have not. I'll admit I've not read everything you've posted here on this subject, but what I have read seems to me to be an attempt at distancing yourself and disowning the whack jobs, but no effort and denouncing them or how they have co-opted your religion.

but no effort and denouncing them or how they have co-opted your religion.

I already did that about 4,000 posts ago. Trouble is, people want me to do it every waking moment of every day.

Once is enough.

No, it sounds like our friend Myrmidonisia has named his pigs after Orville and Wilbur Wright, who first flew a plane in 1903.
It's a hobby. We have enough land for some animals and pigs seemed easier to keep than cows. The first was named Wilbur, after the pig in Charlotte's Web. When we got the second one, Orville was just a natural choice. Unwittingly, we tried Spike for a while, but it just didn't fit. I liked the allusion to Lewis Carroll and the Walrus, too.

They aren't cute anymore, they're hogs. Berkshire Boars, to be precise. And it's getting to be smoking and curing time...Nah, maybe next year.

Wouldn't it be funny if I converted to Islam tomorrow, instantly becoming one of the evil warmongering creatures and earning your everlasting scorn? Then the next day I'd convert back and just like that I'd be on your good side again.

It would go a long way towards illustrating how ridiculous your notions are.


If you convert back from Islam they are obligated to kill you. As opposed to other religions which at the worst, just shun you.

I already did that about 4,000 posts ago. Trouble is, people want me to do it every waking moment of every day.

Once is enough.
I don't give a flying fuck if you denounce them on NS. Denounce them in your community and in your family where it matters.

If you convert back from Islam they are obligated to kill you.

Liar.

Murder is a sin.

Apostates are to be left in Allah's hands. Only one death penalty is given in Qur'an and that is for unrepented murder.

Why must you constantly lie?

Sorry, but this is where you are wrong.

Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. are all various sects of Christianity and all look to the Bible for authority. However, they all interpret the bible in different ways. Just as Christianity has various sects and divisions based on differing interpretations of the bible, the Muslim religion also has various sects based on differing interpretations of the Qur'an and sadly, on sect has interpreted it to call for their terrorist activities. They may not be members of your particular sect of Muslimism, but they are Muslim's nonetheless. Your saying they are not, doesn't make it so.

I don't ask you to apologize for what these whacko muslims have done. I do ask you as a Muslim yourself though to denounce what they have done in the name of your religion and help "reign them in." If these are a small lunatic fringe, then why aren't the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims denouncing them and calling on them to stop? I know some are and have, but most have not. I'll admit I've not read everything you've posted here on this subject, but what I have read seems to me to be an attempt at distancing yourself and disowning the whack jobs, but no effort and denouncing them or how they have co-opted your religion.


How would you Interpret the following.

“Smite them above their necks and on all of their fingertips”.

Note that you are not obligated to this if they are another “People of the book” who consent to slavery. At least not until “The last days”.

Christians generally differ in interpretation based on which parts of the same Bible they favor. The Catholics sorted out many versions of the Bible, locked up most of them and let a few of their favorites circulate around and these are all pretty much the same and mostly filled with niceties. Some Southern Baptists may not care for that Squishy Catholic Addition preferring fire and brimstone, Mormons even tacked on their own frequently changing segments, but pretty much all of it is still cheek turning and love. The Koran is distinctly different, both in flavor and in technical function. I would prefer Moslems not practice the Koran correctly myself. It is safer for us all that way.

How would you Interpret the following.

“Smite them above their necks and on all of their fingertips”.


One part of a sentence within one part of a paragraph that requires the entire rest of the chapter to understand is not truth.

You're not only a liar, but a deliberate asshole, and I'm sick of it.

Liar.

Murder is a sin.

Apostates are to be left in Allah's hands. Only one death penalty is given in Qur'an and that is for unrepented murder.

Why must you constantly lie?


Murder, or Apostasy or Spreading Mischief or Disorder in the land. Wait, Apostasy is in this case spreading Mischief and Disorder in the land. Of course, you may not have to kill them, like a thief you could just cut off all of their limbs and leave them for “Allah”. Read your own Koran, it is shameful when a Jew has to lecture a Moslem on the contents of his own religion. Be glad we are not like Moslems, True Moslems would never have let you convert.

Read your own Koran, it is shameful when a Jew has to lecture a Moslem on the contents of his own religion. Be glad we are not like Moslems, True Moslems would never have let you convert.

I am a Jew. Raised Orthodox. Studied Torah from age 3 and I am a bar mitzvah.

You do not lecture. You do not cite sources except for a single sentence. I can do the same with Torah, pull out a sentence, but anyone who can think would know that a single sentence out of an entire book is meaningless.

You, sir, are no Jew. You are a troll and have been reported.

I am a Jew. Raised Orthodox. Studied Torah from age 3 and I am a bar mitzvah.

You do not lecture. You do not cite sources except for a single sentence. I can do the same with Torah, pull out a sentence, but anyone who can think would know that a single sentence out of an entire book is meaningless.

You, sir, are no Jew. You are a troll and have been reported.


Censorship again? That is OK I am used to people who can support their position in debate resorting to such things. I can quote from the Koran and I can quote from Al Jazeera and I can post here in Turkish and Arabic, but why?

You ever seen that film, “The Believer”. It is about a Jewish boy, who falls in with Neonazi Skinheads.

I can quote from the Koran and I can quote from Al Jazeera and I can post here in Turkish and Arabic, but why?


First of all, you don't. You don't quote Qur'an, you don't source anything, you don't even answer direct questions. That makes you a troll.

As for why, well, because those are the rules. Not only of debate, but of the forum. You make a claim, you'd better be prepared to back it up. You refuse to back it up.

I hate to tell you this, but you've come to troll on a forum that does not take kindly to trolls and which the greatest mantra of this forum is "source please".

You're also going up against a person who has proven his quality on this forum as a peaceful, live and let live, doesn't even crush spiders hippie who happens to be a Muslim Jew.

You're trying to tell this entire forum that I, Keruvalia, am more than willing to blow up, destroy, or smite in the name of Allah, any and every poster on this forum who is not Muslim. You have not one iota of proof to back up that claim.

We shall see what the mods decide, but from this point on, regardless of that outcome, you will be on my ignore list. I will no longer see posts that you make. Good day.

Wow, your thread title was way off the mark. It was toy pigs in one office in one UK city.

I don't think the thread is off the mark, I think the stupidity of trying to be PC and not offend anyone is way off the mark. There are some things in life I don't like or agree with but I'm not about to whine, cry, and demand those things be removed from my presence. :headbang: end of rant.

If ya'll would actually study us rather than cowering in fear of us, you might not have to read stories like this anymore. You can simply say to the Muslim, "Oh, you. Stop pullin' my leg." and laugh with us, rather than by being laughed at by us.

I don't think the Muslim person who complained nor her Muslim boss who ordered the "pigs" removed thought it was a laughing matter.

That's bad enough. Not even your government should be that ... I can't think of a good word ... arrogant, appeasing, complicit, stupid. Next thing will be bans on bacon and eggs in public places because the cooking utensils and silverware are shared.

Please don't give anyone any ideas. :D

Exactly, there are always going to be idiots and people who just like causing trouble, but this council boss had to be pretty damn ignorant to take it seriously. snip

This council boss was:
"Councillor Mahburbur Rahman backed the plan saying “It’s a tolerance of people’s beliefs.” The councillor is also a practising Muslim."

LOL at this. Sorry to hijack the thread, but a person considering the Ulster Unionists terrorists, and then admitting to it, is one of the funniest things I've seen in ages.

So, you don't consider the Ulster Unionists terrorists?

...going forth boldly and smiting the enemy, etc, is during war ... not just on general principle...

And jihad doesn't mean war. Oh, and the extremests are not fighting a jihad because they aren't Muslims. :eek:

All that is well and good, but from what I've read, Saxons and Celts weren't exactly great with women and human rights either.

Obviously you know little or nothing of Celtic history. Not only did the women have rights, but some of them were even the head of some tribes and clans.

And jihad doesn't mean war.

It doesn't. It means struggle. Trying to quit smoking cigarettes is a jihad.

what the fuc* why the fuc* should we get rid of pigs! they are a natural thing (i know this is about the little toy ones, but i am having a rant!) why the hell would someone want to get rid of winnie the pooh, if you believe a pig is sacred, or it will eat you or whatever, just dont play with them, eat them, displease them by standing on them or whatever, dont make others suffer by banning winnie the pooh and other novelty pig shaped items!!!!!!!

We cant ban Pigs, cant get rid of Pork Scratchings or good Old Lincolnshire sausages or Stuffed Chine

I belive its time to reissue the Magna Carta again

I think it time i lobby for everything with in my County to be in English, Anglo-Saxon, Danish and for it be renamed the Lindisware