NationStates Jolt Archive

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.

Any "choice" to enter WWI or not was an illusion madmen created for themselves. WWI was the first few years of the New World Order, and if anyone didn't participate, they risked certain death by isolation and stagnation.

To curb German Imperialism was the primary reason. I assume your American, the Germans were supposedly planning an anti American alliance with Mexico, the sinking of the Lusitania provided the US with the reason to confront there enemy.

You mean besides protecting our interests in the allies?

I don't know about him but I'm from the US and I think that we couold have stayed out of that one too. Probably would'nt have had to throw WWII.

Aside from the War for Independence, we should never have gotten involved in any of the wars we fought.

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.

The same goes for EVERYONE involved in WW1. Here in New Zealand, on the other side of the world, we lost a huge proportion of our adult males.

Aside from the War for Independence, we should never have gotten involved in any of the wars we fought.

That's a very strong position considering the Holocaust, the Yugoslav Wars etc etc

That's a very strong position considering the Holocaust, the Yugoslav Wars etc etc

Not our job to play world policeman. If other countries want to police the world, be my guest.

Yup. I think running around playing world police is the sort of thing to make folks upset enough to drive a plane into you. Yugoslavia is in Europe's back yard. Could'nt the EU handle it?

Yup. I think running around playing world police is the sort of thing to make folks upset enough to drive a plane into you. Yugoslavia is in Europe's back yard. Could'nt the EU handle it?

Exactly! If Europe wants to police the world, hey, knock yourselves out. Just don't expect our support.

The EU isn't a superpower.

As spiderman says great power comes with great responsiblity. Anyway the US took the job after WWII after Europe was left a smoldering heap and there were Reds under the bed.

All wars are pointless.

Yes, forget about Scellia, Amyntos, and Imperial Galactica for a moment. All of them.

The EU isn't a superpower.

As spiderman says great power comes with great responsiblity. Anyway the US took the job after WWII after Europe was left a smoldering heap and there were Reds under the bed.

Well, we should have just dropped a couple of a-bombs on Moscow, and retreated back into our own safe, snug, non-interventionist coccoon.

Which had already led to WWII, the Holocaust and the threat of world facism.

Not our job to play world policeman. If other countries want to police the world, be my guest.

That's a very isolationist point to take, which ignores the interdependency among nations in the modern world -- we rarely get involved out of some altruistic notion of policing -- we get involved to protect our own interests (whether it be directly or indirectly for us or our allies).

The EU isn't a superpower.

As spiderman says great power comes with great responsiblity. Anyway the US took the job after WWII after Europe was left a smoldering heap and there were Reds under the bed.

Exactly.....Wow, great use of that quote buddy. America stepping down as world policeman is totally out of the question, for a single obvious reason. No one else is stepping up to the job. The UN may as well be called the UP: United Pussies. The EU is too concerned with becoming an equal to America to keep the peace, and well, who else is there. lol. America, as a super power must police the world. The best thing anyone in Europe can wish for, is more people like Angela Merkel, and less like Shroeder (idiot).

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.
I agree!

Anyways, what a useless discussion. Britain and France survived the last onslought in 1918 pretty much before US Forces were up to scratch.
I don't know how many people realise what the defeat of the Ludendorff Offensive meant for the Imperial Army, but once that happened, the rest was inevitable, Yanks or no Yanks.

The best thing anyone in Europe can wish for, is more people like Angela Merkel, and less like Shroeder (idiot).
You're an idiot yourself. :D

And besides...Schröder might well be our next foreign minister. :)

Well, we should have just dropped a couple of a-bombs on Moscow, and retreated back into our own safe, snug, non-interventionist coccoon.

Ugh... don't know were to even begin with that one...

Aside from the War for Independence, we should never have gotten involved in any of the wars we fought.
Time for a history lesson? WW2? Would've been a HUGE mistake to not get involved, undisputably. At least, from America's standpoint.

Ugh... don't know were to even begin with that one...

I was semi-serious. I was joking about the a-bombs, serious about the rest.

Time for a history lesson? WW2? Would've been a HUGE mistake to not get involved, undisputably. At least, from America's standpoint.

Why not? Let the Nazis and Soviets duke it out, finish each other off.

I agree!

Anyways, what a useless discussion. Britain and France survived the last onslought in 1918 pretty much before US Forces were up to scratch.
I don't know how many people realise what the defeat of the Ludendorff Offensive meant for the Imperial Army, but once that happened, the rest was inevitable, Yanks or no Yanks.

YEAH OK. America saved the day....In WWI, and WWII. This is what I dont get. Americans dont go around talking shit about England, Australia, or Russias action and help in the world wars, so why do you guys do it to us? We saved the day, like it or not. And your are welcome....my grandparents all fought against their former countries (Germany and Austria) and for what, to be slanderd by the people THEY SAVED!!!??? This sickens me...have some respect....We praise Frances help agaisnt England in our war...start prasing are help for you guys.

I was semi-serious. I was joking about the a-bombs, serious about the rest.

Then the world would of gone Communist and the US would of been defeated and also turned Red, leading to a horrific global Stalinist USSR.

Not our job to play world policeman. If other countries want to police the world, be my guest.

Jeez, the US didn't exactly take on the "World policeman" role for humanitarian reasons. Stability is good for business, which is why the US has been happy to support charming guys like Saddam, Suharto and Pinochet as long as they don't get in the way of US corporations. That's not to say that its in the interests of the actual citizens of the US, since you're the ones who have to fund the military.

You're an idiot yourself. :D

And besides...Schröder might well be our next foreign minister. :)

I wasnt calling the poster and idiot...i was calling shroeder...I hate that guy. He basically ran on an anti American platform. He gives Germans a bad name.

Then the world would of gone Communist and the US would of been defeated and also turned Red, leading to a horrific global Stalinist USSR.

If it wasn't for the U.S., there wouldn't even have been a U.S.S.R., and communism would be an important footnote in a history book.

YEAH OK. America saved the day....In WWI, and WWII. This is what I dont get. Americans dont go around talking shit about England, Australia, or Russias action and help in the world wars, so why do you guys do it to us? We saved the day, like it or not. And your are welcome....my grandparents all fought against their former countries (Germany and Austria) and for what, to be slanderd by the people THEY SAVED!!!??? This sickens me...have some respect....We praise Frances help agaisnt England in our war...start prasing are help for you guys.

Please Britain and France won WWI. The US with its allies most importantly RUSSIA who to quote Churchill "Tore the heart out of the Wehrmacht" defeated the Nazis. What do you want us to kiss your arse for rest of time? Never have an opinon of our own? Life moves on. I won't begin on the negatives the US has inflicted on the UK.

Then the world would of gone Communist and the US would of been defeated and also turned Red, leading to a horrific global Stalinist USSR.

I'm not so sure...Without the threat of a western invasion....Deutschland could have focused all of its power on the eastern front...it would have been a totally different ball game...Not saying they would have won...but I'm also not saying they would have lost...anyway its irelevant, a World Riech or World USSR both arnt too appealing to me lol

Please Britain and France won WWI. The US with its allies most importantly RUSSIA who to quote Churchill "Tore the heart out of the Wehrmacht" defeated the Nazis. What do you want us to kiss your arse for rest of time? Never have an opinon of our own? Life moves on. I won't begin on the negatives the US has inflicted on the UK.

Germany faked the shit out of France and France had to have its military rushed back to Paris in TAXIS!!!..Without England and America, France would be speaking German, like it or not.

As for WWII...England was begging US to come and help...they were trapped on their island getting the shit bombed out of them by germany, france was done, and Russia was getting destroyed. America saved the day in the west, and Russia saved it in the east...as for in Asia...well America saved the day on its own. No one is dirtying russias name in WWII, they are however, dirtying America's

Germany faked the shit out of France and France had to have its military rushed back to Paris in TAXIS!!!..Without England and America, France would be speaking German, like it or not.

The German army already had its back broken by 1918. Once again America was late and had missed the party. The rush back to Paris was in 1914 the lines froze shortly after.

WWII Britain held out two years before the Yanks arrived and always maintained a parity of armed forces. We may of needed you, but you needed us! The USSR would have won the war without both of us any how.

YEAH OK. America saved the day....In WWI, and WWII. This is what I dont get. Americans dont go around talking shit about England, Australia, or Russias action and help in the world wars, so why do you guys do it to us? We saved the day, like it or not. And your are welcome....my grandparents all fought against their former countries (Germany and Austria) and for what, to be slanderd by the people THEY SAVED!!!??? This sickens me...have some respect....We praise Frances help agaisnt England in our war...start prasing are help for you guys.

I'm American. I don't feel that we really saved the day in WWI. We came a little late for that. Germany was already on the way to defeat. Besides, we didn't join for the allies benefit, we decided to join because it was in our self-interest and we were attacked.

Likewise in WWII, we sat by while the Holocaust was happening. George W's grandfather, Prescot Bush, was doing business with the Nazis. We only joined because the Japanese attacked us and then Germany declared war on us. So it's not like we were in the war out of good will towards our European friends. If that were the fact, we wouldn't have waited till 1941.

On the other hand, our presence most likely did end the war sooner. I still think the Nazis would have lost without our intervention. Hitler was imploding.

Why not? Let the Nazis and Soviets duke it out, finish each other off.
Well, let's see. Most likely, neither nation would've finished the other off. Peace would bring a long occupation of France/maybe Britain, Germany would recoup, with its fascism advantage. Afterwards, they would finish off Europe, become a superpower. They would race the Russians with nukes, then cause a nuclear holocaust (or maybe just pwn Russia). I doubt Hitler would mind using nukes.

If either wins outright, skip a bunch of that and jump right to superpower. Then, we'd have a huge Europe/Asian country united under fascism/communism. Interesting times, indeed. But I don't think either was in a position to dominate the other.

And all of this doesn't take into accout the Great Depression, which WW2 largely cured. Besides, WW2 greatly contributed to rock music. How do you argue with that? But seriously, the US didn't want the Reds nor Hitler to gain ground (and neither did Poland et all.). WW2 greatly added to the US becoming a superpower.

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.

Well... during the war the German leader (whose name has slipped my mind) feared the Americans attacking so he gave Vladmir Lenin (who was in Germany at the time) a safe route back to Russia where he could take power and pull Russia out of the war. So in a way, WW1 lead to the USSR. Although I guess the birth of the USSR is a bad thing, depending on your view. Also without WW1, there would be no Treaty of Versailles, which led to Hitler's rise to power and WW2. After WW2, because of the hell of the Jewish people had gone the UN (another invention after WW2) established the country of Israel.

But I guess you can argue if those reasons justify it.

But seriously, the US didn't want the Reds nor Hitler to gain ground (and neither did Poland et all.). WW2 greatly added to the US becoming a superpower.

The U.S. did want the Reds to gain ground. Remember Lend-Lease? Also, at the end of WWII, Roosevelt gave the Reds Manchuria and Eastern Europe on a platter.

The U.S. did want the Reds to gain ground. Remember Lend-Lease? Also, at the end of WWII, Roosevelt gave the Reds Manchuria and Eastern Europe on a platter.

Roosevelt was a LOT more pro Russian than Churchill or DeGaulle (Churchill actually told Field Marshal Montgomery to prepare for war with the USSR)

America saved the day....In WWI...
We've seen that this isn't the case. For early offensive operations, or even as reserve for defence, US Commanders refused to have their men moved to the front until well into 1918.
As I said, the Ludendorff offensive was halted primarily by the French and British troops (and might I add a few very brave Aussie Regiments...), who were there in vastly greater quantities than the Americans.

...and WWII.
A much better case. Nonetheless, a little bit of realism needs to be applied here too.
Germany lost the war in Stalingrad, in 1942 (in my opinion it was more 1941 at Moscow), before D-Day was even being considered.
There were tens of millions of men on the Eastern Front, three, four, maybe even more times as many as in the West. The strategic bombing has not been shown to have shortened the war significantly, indeed German industrial production was on a high level during much of the time. Lost resources through trade and the advancing Soviet army was probably to blame for the following collapse moreso than Allied bombing (which, might I add, concentrated on civilian areas to a great extent).

This is what I dont get. Americans dont go around talking shit about England, Australia, or Russias action and help in the world wars, so why do you guys do it to us?
Really? How often were British, Canadian, Australian, Russian or indeed anyone else than Americans mentioned in "Saving Private Ryan"?
Think about what I'm trying to say with that.

We saved the day, like it or not. And your are welcome....my grandparents all fought against their former countries (Germany and Austria) and for what, to be slanderd by the people THEY SAVED!!!??? This sickens me...have some respect....We praise Frances help agaisnt England in our war...start prasing are help for you guys.
Me? Excuse me, but my great-grand uncle lies in France somewhere, killed in the last week of WWI. My grandfather had half his leg blown off in Stalingrad.

Just because you were formally involved in the last few months WWI, hardly means we have to pay respect (!) to you. But the self-righteousness with which you claim the achievements of your grandparents for yourself - and require me to pay allegiance to your expansionism - that is what sickens me. Show some respect to your own grandparents, please.

And besides, the respect and praise you show for France has been decidedly underwhelming the last few years...

Likewise in WWII, we sat by while the Holocaust was happening. George W's grandfather, Prescot Bush, was doing business with the Nazis. We only joined because the Japanese attacked us and then Germany declared war on us. So it's not like we were in the war out of good will towards our European friends. If that were the fact, we wouldn't have waited till 1941.

Dude...Why did you have to bring Bush into this. First of all...the holocaust wasnt public information...sure some officials in our government knew about it, but most people didnt...Even in Germany it wasnt made public. Our government was doing bussiness was the Nazis too...are we nazi sympathisers? The Nazis were considered EVIL until after the holocaust was discovered...before that they were just considered the enemy of England...and then later us...no different than the Kaiser in WWI...but you would hardly call the Kaiser evil. After all they had disney movies portaying Donald Duck as a freaking Nazi lol. Your right about joining because the Japs attacked us...we obviously went into the war for ourselves...but and this is a big BUT when the fog cleared...it was America savign the day...in the West of Europe...and in the East of Asia...France was done...England was drived off the mainland...Russia was getting destroyed but slowly turning the tides..and Japan was dominating Asia.

The EU isn't a superpower.

As spiderman says great power comes with great responsiblity. Anyway the US took the job after WWII after Europe was left a smoldering heap and there were Reds under the bed.

Sorry you're all big kids now and we expect you to take care of yourselves.

Roosevelt was a LOT more pro Russian than Churchill or DeGaulle (Churchill actually told Field Marshal Montgomery to prepare for war with the USSR)

I know, that's what I just said. He showered the Reds with billions of dollars' worth of aid.

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.
Other than Germany sinking a cruise ship of ours...

For someone as bloodthirsty as you, that should be sufficient reason.

Our involvement in WWI was debateable. Wilson was doing a fine good job of keeping us out, but then the whole controversy over the Lusitania and the Zimmerman Telegraph creates a whole new ballgame.

Dude...Why did you have to bring Bush into this. First of all...the holocaust wasnt public information...sure some officials in our government knew about it, but most people didnt...Even in Germany it wasnt made public. Our government was doing bussiness was the Nazis too...are we nazi sympathisers? The Nazis were considered EVIL until after the holocaust was discovered...before that they were just considered the enemy of England...and then later us...no different than the Kaiser in WWI...but you would hardly call the Kaiser evil. After all they had disney movies portaying Donald Duck as a freaking Nazi lol. Your right about joining because the Japs attacked us...we obviously went into the war for ourselves...but and this is a big BUT when the fog cleared...it was America savign the day...in the West of Europe...and in the East of Asia...France was done...England was drived off the mainland...Russia was getting destroyed but slowly turning the tides..and Japan was dominating Asia.

The British were at D-Day, we had defended France , Belgium and Norway. We fought the battle of Britain. We fought in Asia in Burma and India, we fought the Japanese in the Pacific the Germans in North Africa, we shipped war materials to the Russians. We did JUST AS MUCH AS THE US!

Aside from the War for Independence, we should never have gotten involved in any of the wars we fought.

Does that include the Civil War?

We've seen that this isn't the case. For early offensive operations, or even as reserve for defence, US Commanders refused to have their men moved to the front until well into 1918.
As I said, the Ludendorff offensive was halted primarily by the French and British troops (and might I add a few very brave Aussie Regiments...), who were there in vastly greater quantities than the Americans.


A much better case. Nonetheless, a little bit of realism needs to be applied here too.
Germany lost the war in Stalingrad, in 1942 (in my opinion it was more 1941 at Moscow), before D-Day was even being considered.
There were tens of millions of men on the Eastern Front, three, four, maybe even more times as many as in the West. The strategic bombing has not been shown to have shortened the war significantly, indeed German industrial production was on a high level during much of the time. Lost resources through trade and the advancing Soviet army was probably to blame for the following collapse moreso than Allied bombing (which, might I add, concentrated on civilian areas to a great extent).


Really? How often were British, Canadian, Australian, Russian or indeed anyone else than Americans mentioned in "Saving Private Ryan"?
Think about what I'm trying to say with that.


Me? Excuse me, but my great-grand uncle lies in France somewhere, killed in the last week of WWI. My grandfather had half his leg blown off in Stalingrad.

Just because you were formally involved in the last few months WWI, hardly means we have to pay respect (!) to you. But the self-righteousness with which you claim the achievements of your grandparents for yourself - and require me to pay allegiance to your expansionism - that is what sickens me. Show some respect to your own grandparents, please.

And besides, the respect and praise you show for France has been decidedly underwhelming the last few years...

As for Saving Private Ryan...dude Its a freaking hollywood movie...lol they are a bunch of crazy commies up there...Theres no way in hell I'm speaking for them.

As for when I was talking about my grandparents...I was talking about then in WWII sorry about the misunderstanding...

And finally...Americas respect for PRESENT France is at about zero....Because of their anti American stance. However...that view does not go to include France back in the day, nor does it include the people outside Paris...its mainly Parisians and the French government. The same goes for Germany...I have no bad views towards Germany...Just Shroder and his cabinet...the amount of people who voted for Merkel...an outspoken pro American makes me very happy with Germany and its people.

Exactly.....Wow, great use of that quote buddy. America stepping down as world policeman is totally out of the question, for a single obvious reason. No one else is stepping up to the job. The UN may as well be called the UP: United Pussies. The EU is too concerned with becoming an equal to America to keep the peace, and well, who else is there. lol. America, as a super power must police the world. The best thing anyone in Europe can wish for, is more people like Angela Merkel, and less like Shroeder (idiot).

Right a whole continent of countries that want us to do the fighting for them and PAY for all those damn planes and guns while they work on their economy?!?! We've already GOT frickin Canada the boat is full the ride is over. I say we take our ball and go home.

We did JUST AS MUCH AS THE US!
And if you consider how much smaller Britain and its economy was, it did probably more.

Which had already led to WWII, the Holocaust and the threat of world facism.
Fascism would have existed as it did, Nazism probably would not have existed though.

Which is why I agree...we never should have gotten involved. Besides, look how grateful those countries we helped are...

Does that include the Civil War?

There was no Civil War. A civil war is a war fought between different factions for the control of one country. The South was fighting for its independence, whereas the North was fighting to keep the country unified. Regardless of whichever side was right or wrong, calling it a civil war is wholly inaccurate. If the North and South had both been fighting for control of the central government of the whole country, then it would have been a civil war.

The US needs to stop feeling so sorry for its self and grow up. This isn't the school yard, you can't bully people to agree with you, you can't expect respect for something you did 50 years ago, when many nations disagree with what you are doing now!

Dude...Why did you have to bring Bush into this. First of all...the holocaust wasnt public information...sure some officials in our government knew about it, but most people didnt...Even in Germany it wasnt made public. Our government was doing bussiness was the Nazis too...are we nazi sympathisers? The Nazis were considered EVIL until after the holocaust was discovered...before that they were just considered the enemy of England...and then later us...no different than the Kaiser in WWI...but you would hardly call the Kaiser evil. After all they had disney movies portaying Donald Duck as a freaking Nazi lol. Your right about joining because the Japs attacked us...we obviously went into the war for ourselves...but and this is a big BUT when the fog cleared...it was America savign the day...in the West of Europe...and in the East of Asia...France was done...England was drived off the mainland...Russia was getting destroyed but slowly turning the tides..and Japan was dominating Asia.

I used Prescott Bush as simply an example that our government wasn't on a war footing with Germany until later. My point is that America did not enter the war for England or France's sake. We entered for our own reasons later. Pure and simple. If we had entered the war from the get-go, THEN we could puff out our chests and say, "We saved your asses!"

And to be honest about it, without England's air force and radar, there wouldn't have been a war to enter in 1941...it would have been over except maybe for an English and French reistance...well, probably Russia and Germany would still be fighting.

Right a whole continent of countries that want us to do the fighting for them and PAY for all those damn planes and guns while they work on their economy?!?! We've already GOT frickin Canada the boat is full the ride is over. I say we take our ball and go home.

I have no problem with America helping the world...All I want is a little damn respect. Just a Thank you for helping re build Europe...bring Germany up as a Power from the rubble...liberate France..defeat Europe...capture terrorits...jsut a damn thank you. Thats all. But I am starting to agree with you because we ARNT getting any respect. I shudder to think what would happen to the world if America just withdrew troops and interests from the whole world and just turned a blind eye to the rest of the world.

Fascism would have existed as it did, Nazism probably would not have existed though.

Which is why I agree...we never should have gotten involved. Besides, look how grateful those countries we helped are...

I thank the 25,000,000 Russians that died, not the 79,000 US troops thank you very much.

I used Prescott Bush as simply an example that our government wasn't on a war footing with Germany until later. My point is that America did not enter the war for England or France's sake. We entered for our own reasons later. Pure and simple. If we had entered the war from the get-go, THEN we could puff out our chests and say, "We saved your asses!"

And to be honest about it, without England's air force and radar, there wouldn't have been a war to enter in 1941...it would have been over except maybe for an English and French reistance...well, probably Russia and Germany would still be fighting.

That may be true...And I am very praising of England during WWII because they survived against the monster that was Germany...No one is putting England down...EVERYONE is putting America down...I give my respect to England for surving and fighting alongside America, Russia for sacrificing so many lives at the cost of destroying Germany, and Switzerland for staying nuetral lol. All I ask for is some respect for America. I give no respect for any part of France that was included in Vichy France, as most of them collaborted with the Nazis. However, the ones outside Vichy France I respect as much as America...now please..all I ask is our respect.

That may be true...And I am very praising of England during WWII because they survived against the monster that was Germany...No one is putting England down...EVERYONE is putting America down...I give my respect to England for surving and fighting alongside America, Russia for sacrificing so many lives at the cost of destroying Germany, and Switzerland for staying nuetral lol. All I ask for is some respect for America. I give no respect for any part of France that was included in Vichy France, as most of them collaborted with the Nazis. However, the ones outside Vichy France I respect as much as America...now please..all I ask is our respect.

You don't want respect you want everyone to agree with you and stop criticising. That's not the same thing!

As for Saving Private Ryan...dude Its a freaking hollywood movie...lol they are a bunch of crazy commies up there...Theres no way in hell I'm speaking for them.
Hollywood movies represent what Americans want to see - unless you don't think the free market works that is...
They are also the way many, especially young, people learn about things like WWII. Go into the average school: It's not considered cool to watch documentaries and inform yourself - entertainment is the only way Americans (and kiddies all over the world) learn about things not in the curriculum.
And considering the little bit I do know about how history is tought in the US, I think that the Eastern Front is not covered in any sufficient way at all.

And finally...Americas respect for PRESENT France is at about zero....Because of their anti American stance.
You mean DeGaulle wanting to build an independent France, rather than an American appendix?
You can't mean Iraq, because we've heard from both sides plenty of times that this wasn't about anti-americanism, but merely about differences of opinions among friends. Unless you watch FoxNews, that is.

The same goes for Germany...I have no bad views towards Germany...Just Shroder and his cabinet...the amount of people who voted for Merkel...an outspoken pro American makes me very happy with Germany and its people.
It might make you happy to hear that I voted for Merkel.
It might make you very unhappy that I think Schröder's foreign policy was the best the BRD ever had. It was only after Merkel agreed that she would never approve of military action against Iran that I felt comfortable voting for her.
The majority of Germans think the same way, if you look at the stats for why people voted the way they did.
It's the economy, stupid. Merkel had the better economic policy to get the country out of the trouble it's in. She had the will and the power (the CDU/CSU controls the upper house) to further the reforms done by Schröder.

And now there's going to be a grand coalition between left and right, and Schröder is thus candidate number one for the foreign minister post. It's the best possible way this could've turned out.

Hmm, well our presence in World War One was certainly unneeded, though it most definitely ended the war sooner.

World War Two though, I suppose we weren’t needed then either. But I am still glad we got involved. The idea of a Soviet Europe and a Japanese Pacific does not exactly appeal to me.

If the US didn't enter WWI, it would have been a complete stalemate. Both sides suffered extreme losses. If the US didn't enter, the war would be still going on until both sides ran out of people. So in a way (a very sad way), WWI wasn't completely pointless, the war in Iraq is pointless, not WWI.

...I give no respect for any part of France that was included in Vichy France, as most of them collaborted with the Nazis...
You need to start using paragraphs instead of hiding such ridiculous notions under a heap of text.
Vichy France was the best France could do when it was defeated. The alternative would have been to be completely occupied.
Some politicians in Vichy France were pro-German. Most weren't. You can't think that old man Petain was a Nazi sympathiser. Of all people!

Most French people liked the Germans even less. Some joined the resistance, others tried to live their lives as best they could. That doesn't mean collaboration, that means trying to ignore the politics and concentrate on the important stuff, like feeding your kids.
Americans have done no different when areas of theirs were conquered in the various British, Canadian and Civil Wars.

If the US didn't enter WWI, it would have been a complete stalemate.
That's not exactly true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Michael

I have no problem with America helping the world...All I want is a little damn respect. Just a Thank you for helping re build Europe...bring Germany up as a Power from the rubble...liberate France..defeat Europe...capture terrorits...jsut a damn thank you. Thats all. But I am starting to agree with you because we ARNT getting any respect. I shudder to think what would happen to the world if America just withdrew troops and interests from the whole world and just turned a blind eye to the rest of the world.

Your economy would collapse, which is why the US isn't going to do that...

You need to start using paragraphs instead of hiding such ridiculous notions under a heap of text.
Vichy France was the best France could do when it was defeated. The alternative would have been to be completely occupied.
Some politicians in Vichy France were pro-German. Most weren't. You can't think that old man Petain was a Nazi sympathiser. Of all people!

Most French people liked the Germans even less. Some joined the resistance, others tried to live their lives as best they could. That doesn't mean collaboration, that means trying to ignore the politics and concentrate on the important stuff, like feeding your kids.
Americans have done no different when areas of theirs were conquered in the various British, Canadian and Civil Wars.

Vichy France was Fascist. It rounded up Jews and other 'undesirables' and handed them over to the Germans. Its secret police were as bad as the Gestapo, torturing and murdering political opponents. Vichy military units fought against the British and Americans in North Africa. Petain may not have been pro-German but he was a fascist. The only true representation of France to survive the fall of Paris was DeGaulle and the Free French!

Vichy France was Fascist. It rounded up Jews and other 'undesirables' and handed them over to the Germans. Its secret police were as bad as the Gestapo, torturing and murdering political opponents.
As I said, the alternative was complete occupation, with the same stuff happening, just with even more intensity.

Vichy military units fought against the British and Americans in North Africa.
Well, that is because they invaded Franch territory, and Vichy France had been too slow to get to a decision and tell the local commanders.
You'll note that they didn't fight very hard, and they soon left the Allies alone, despite Mers-El-Kebir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_French_Fleet_at_Mers-el-Kebir). Read it if you haven't heard of it. It is pretty important if you want to understand the mindset of the people then!

Petain may not have been pro-German but he was a fascist. The only true representation of France to survive the fall of Paris was DeGaulle and the Free French!
I agree, but deGaulle didn't have to worry about millions of civilians and their necessities. All he had to worry about was not to seem to weak in front of Churchill. It's easy to be tough on Nazis if they're not walking down your street with big rifles in their hands...

Hey guys I gotta go do homework and go to bed...I am very tired from basketball practice...I am in no way backing out....but i gotta hit my sack soon, sorry guys.

To the German guy...(my German is pretty rusty but I will try my best)

Ich bin glucklich sie wie Merkel. Shroeder ist homosexuell, lol.

Norway, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslavkia al managed it!.

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.
True, but with it's after-effects (WWII), MANY things would have not happened because of that WW. Like the many heroes of WWII, and WWI, the creation of the UN, alliances with Japan, etcetera.

Norway, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Yugoslavia, Czechoslavkia al managed it!.

Norway=resistance movement
Belgium=eh?
Holland=resistance movement
Poland=resistance movement
Yugoslavia=resistance movement
Czech=resistance movement...

and France=resistance movemnet (Maquis)

What's your point?

Norway=resistance movement
Belgium=eh?
Holland=resistance movement
Poland=resistance movement
Yugoslavia=resistance movement
Czech=resistance movement...

and France=resistance movemnet (Maquis)

What's your point?

If you had read. It was that none collaberated like the Vichy government. All had to be occupied and have pro German governments inforced.

If you had read. It was that none collaberated like the Vichy government. All had to be occupied and have pro German governments inforced.

France was occupied. And a pro German govt was installed and enforced. No different from Norway for instance. Vichy was a pro Nazi govt that was born out of necessity - as was the Norwegian collaboraters and their govts.

I have no problem with America helping the world...All I want is a little damn respect. Just a Thank you for helping re build Europe...bring Germany up as a Power from the rubble...liberate France..defeat Europe...capture terrorits...jsut a damn thank you. Thats all. But I am starting to agree with you because we ARNT getting any respect. I shudder to think what would happen to the world if America just withdrew troops and interests from the whole world and just turned a blind eye to the rest of the world.

I don't. I say the next time the world goes genocidal we sit back and watch it on CNN. As most of the posts in this thread prove their not going to say thanks or show any grace in the situation. They got along fine killing each other for centuries we should let'em alone.

If you had read. It was that none collaberated like the Vichy government. All had to be occupied and have pro German governments inforced.
Well in reality, the way the Vichy Government was working it was controlled by the Germans. Especially little man Laval and the like were always quick to run to the Germans whenever Petain or others proposed non-German policies.

Nonetheless, if you look at the countries you mentioned, all had the same totalitarianism forced on them - there wasn't much of a difference.
And if you look at the statistics of how many percent of Jews in the country were killed, you see that for whatever reason France still was a better place to be for a Jew than for example Belgium, or Yugoslavia etc
http://cghs.dade.k12.fl.us/holocaust/fsolution.htm

There was no Civil War. A civil war is a war fought between different factions for the control of one country. The South was fighting for its independence, whereas the North was fighting to keep the country unified. Regardless of whichever side was right or wrong, calling it a civil war is wholly inaccurate. If the North and South had both been fighting for control of the central government of the whole country, then it would have been a civil war.

Geez, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were rewriting the whole US history here. Ok, what about the war between the states, should have gotten into that war?

There was no Civil War. A civil war is a war fought between different factions for the control of one country. The South was fighting for its independence, whereas the North was fighting to keep the country unified. Regardless of whichever side was right or wrong, calling it a civil war is wholly inaccurate. If the North and South had both been fighting for control of the central government of the whole country, then it would have been a civil war.


Does that include the war between the North and the South, then?
You never answered the question.

we needed to assure that uk would win. that is that. also we didnt want mexico going all crazy, even though history had assured us that we could handle them :p

That's not exactly true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Michael



The 1918 Spring Offensive or Kaiserschlacht was a series of German attacks along the Western Front during the First World War, which marked the deepest advance by either side since 1914. The German authorities had realised that their one realistic chance of victory was to defeat the Allies before the overwhelming human and matériel resources of the United States could be deployed

By the way can you resourse something besides Wikki? Ever see that silly gameshow where the objective is not to get the right answer but the answer most of the people surveyed responded with? Yeah that's wikki...

Ever see that silly gameshow where the objective is not to get the right answer but the answer most of the people surveyed responded with? Yeah that's wikki...
siged

The German authorities had realised that their one realistic chance of victory was to defeat the Allies before the overwhelming human and matériel resources of the United States could be deployed
See: note the "before".
So I guess you guys won by proxy... :p

By the way can you resourse something besides Wikki? Ever see that silly gameshow where the objective is not to get the right answer but the answer most of the people surveyed responded with? Yeah that's wikki...
What?
Either you believe in libertarianism and that if everyone is free to do what they want, it will turn out right, or you don't. And in that case, this is merely a micro-example of your socialist tendencies...

At any rate, Wiki gives a good overview of stuff, as well as links if you want more info. I have yet to see an article on there that actually contained wrong information.

EDIT: That, and I'm also lazy.

See: note the "before".
So I guess you guys won by proxy... :p
Right as in that entire offensive occured because the Germans knew that they could'nt win the war with the US involved. Which would also mean they had a chance of winning without us.

What?
Either you believe in libertarianism and that if everyone is free to do what they want, it will turn out right, or you don't. And in that case, this is merely a micro-example of your socialist tendencies...

At any rate, Wiki gives a good overview of stuff, as well as links if you want more info. I have yet to see an article on there that actually contained wrong information.

EDIT: That, and I'm also lazy.
There are TONS trust me. Are you in College? No matter what you do don't try to turn in a paper usinf Wikki. Try google scholar. It's interesting because it's open sourse. But it's innacurate because it's open sourse

WWI was concocted by the powers of Europe in order to stifle socialism by encouraging nationalism and killing off much of the working class!!!

SO THERE!!!!


:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

Right it was part of their pact with thte aliens in area 51. And the evil jews!




Author's note: I am not responsible for your inability to comprehend sarcasm.

Right as in that entire offensive occured because the Germans knew that they could'nt win the war with the US involved. Which would also mean they had a chance of winning without us.
They started it quicker than they might have. They would have done it anyways. Those troops they used came straight from Russia, which had just been defeated.
The idea was to now finally use all of Germany's strength to crush them, before the Americans could cancel that out again.

There are TONS trust me. Are you in College? No matter what you do don't try to turn in a paper usinf Wikki. Try google scholar.
Show me one.
Yes I am, but I use academic papers for referencing...and most of those are not accessible easily for others on a forum like this, because they don't have a password for the various databases.

Hmm. You are right about one thing, WW1 was a war that US shouldnt have gotten into. It wasnt pointless, just not worth the time. WW2 wasnt pointless either, but justifiable to an extent. We didnt want world fascism because eventually, Nazi Germany wouldve invaded America. They wouldve had to have done it. We are capitalist, they dont agree with those ideals. They wanted everyone to capitulate to Hitlers way of thinking. If we hadnt gone into WW2, it would have succeded. It is just like what is going on in Iraq. The Muslim world doesnt agree with our ideals. They think we are infidels who need to die because we dont follow their god. Total BS. Religion, politics, and war are words that should NEVER go together. Im sorry if anyone is Muslim here, but those are my ideals. You just need to understand, by attacking America, the only thing you have done is, in the words of the Japanese, "Awaken a sleeping giant with terrible resolve." They attacked us at Pearl Harbor, we vaporized Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Terrorists, quit fighting us now before we get so sick of your crap we just decide to nuke or carpet napalm bomb you guys.

Terrorists, quit fighting us now before we get so sick of your crap we just decide to nuke or carpet napalm bomb you guys.

So now there's a specific place terrorists are coming from?

Or should we just nuke the places we think they're coming from, killing all the citzens that might be there, to make sure? It's not terrorism if we do it, right?

:rolleyes:

Try Googl Scholar it only links to peer-reveiwed published sourses. None of them are restricted by passwords. And no I am not going to dig arround for wikki mistakes. One was posted here as a threada about the American Legion recently. It's probably not past page three.

Hmm. You are right about one thing, WW1 was a war that US shouldnt have gotten into. It wasnt pointless, just not worth the time. WW2 wasnt pointless either, but justifiable to an extent. We didnt want world fascism because eventually, Nazi Germany wouldve invaded America. They wouldve had to have done it. We are capitalist, they dont agree with those ideals. They wanted everyone to capitulate to Hitlers way of thinking. If we hadnt gone into WW2, it would have succeded. It is just like what is going on in Iraq. The Muslim world doesnt agree with our ideals. They think we are infidels who need to die because we dont follow their god. Total BS. Religion, politics, and war are words that should NEVER go together. Im sorry if anyone is Muslim here, but those are my ideals. You just need to understand, by attacking America, the only thing you have done is, in the words of the Japanese, "Awaken a sleeping giant with terrible resolve." They attacked us at Pearl Harbor, we vaporized Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Terrorists, quit fighting us now before we get so sick of your crap we just decide to nuke or carpet napalm bomb you guys.

Where did you get the idea that WWII Germany was anti-capitalist? You realize that Hitler hated "commies" too.

I also wonder where you got the idea that Iraq attacked us?

Guess what? Nuking or carpet napalming a country would make us (America,) the most murderous country in the history of the world. Rationalizing such actions because we're "the good guys," has been the justification for just about every attrocity in history.

Where did you get the idea that WWII Germany was anti-capitalist?
!3 pillars of National Socialism maybe. Advocated state control of industry. Maybe something like that?

Aside from the War for Independence, we should never have gotten involved in any of the wars we fought.

You're kidding, right? Ever heard of Pearl Harbor? Seems like perfect justification for the US entering WW2 to me..... And nevermind that Germany declared war on us too....

You're kidding, right? Ever heard of Pearl Harbor? Seems like perfect justification for the US entering WW2 to me..... And nevermind that Germany declared war on us too....
FDR goaded on the Japanese. He REALLY wanted to be in it, probably to help his good friend “Uncle Joe”

FDR goaded on the Japanese. He REALLY wanted to be in it, probably to help his good friend “Uncle Joe”

Nobody could have made the Japanese engage in a first strike attack on America except the Japanese. Trying to say that FDR was responsible for 'goading' the attack at Pearl Harbor is a sad attempt to shift the blame. The Japanese knew full well what they were doing.

Nobody could have made the Japanese engage in a first strike attack on America except the Japanese. Trying to say that FDR was responsible for 'goading' the attack at Pearl Harbor is a sad attempt to shift the blame. The Japanese knew full well what they were doing.

Yes, they did.

However, that does not change the fact that FDR did everything in his power to narrow their range of choices. Automagfreek is quite right... From the Japanese perspective, the only choice consistent with their reasonable goals in the Pacific was a pre-emptive attack on the United States' fleet. FDR really did goad them into it.

This is not a matter of "shifting" the blame so much as it is a recognition of reciprocal blame. Engaging in WWII was a very rational course for FDR... and attacking Pearl Harbor was an equally (if not more) rational course for the Japanese. Deciding who is to "blame" is beside the point.

!3 pillars of National Socialism maybe. Advocated state control of industry. Maybe something like that?

Socialism =/= anti-capitalism.

Also, even though the Nazis incorporated the word Socialist into their party name, they were NOT socialists anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_in_relation_to_other_concepts#Nazism_and_socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Economic_practice

Socialism =/= anti-capitalism.
Well I'dsay nationalising Industry = Anti-capitalism. Or are you talking about some other capitalism that does'nt have private enterprise?

Well I'dsay nationalising Industry = Anti-capitalism. Or are you talking about some other capitalism that does'nt have private enterprise?

But that's not what they did. See above. Corporations and private enterprise were in effect in Nazi Germany. Labor unions were outlawed.

Try Googl Scholar it only links to peer-reveiwed published sourses. None of them are restricted by passwords.
Thanks. I'll see when I can use it. But use a peer-reviewed academic article to tell someone what Operation Michael was? Isn't that a bit much?
And besides, who ever reads through the entire article (wiki or otherwise) anyways?

And no I am not going to dig arround for wikki mistakes. One was posted here as a threada about the American Legion recently. It's probably not past page three.
And it's probably gone already. That's the beauty of open-source software.

Maybe. There are overt and covert errors. IF I write a history of Germany and covering the 40's say Hitler came to power and stabalized the country and made it productive and profitable. That he was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize and was the subject of the famous 'Peace in our Day' spech. Then I cover that he was involved in a European War with several continental nations and that he was successful in that as well Untill his treaty with Russia expired and America declared war on him it would be more or less accurate in that there would be no blatantly false statements made. Of course a lot of true statements are left out. That's another big problem with the Wikki....

Maybe. There are overt and covert errors. IF I write a history of Germany and covering the 40's say Hitler came to power and stabalized the country and made it productive and profitable. That he was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize and was the subject of the famous 'Peace in our Day' spech. Then I cover that he was involved in a European War with several continental nations and that he was successful in that as well Untill his treaty with Russia expired and America declared war on him it would be more or less accurate in that there would be no blatantly false statements made. Of course a lot of true statements are left out. That's another big problem with the Wikki....

True, but everyone's got to start somewhere.

Oh right Wikki's great if you like me often stumble upon some area of information and want an overveiw. But it's useless and misleading as a sourse. If I fing something interesting on WIKKI my first responsse is to search it elsewhere and see if it's real....

Maybe. There are overt and covert errors. IF I write a history of Germany and covering the 40's say Hitler came to power and stabalized the country and made it productive and profitable.
That's true. Sadly enough, his regime was a stable one.

That he was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize and was the subject of the famous 'Peace in our Day' spech.
I think he was only nominated for it, I think the only German of the time who actually got it was in 1935 Carl von Ossietzky - who was anti-Nazi and to my knowledge was killed by them.
So here you're saying wrong things.

Then I cover that he was involved in a European War with several continental nations and that he was successful in that as well Untill his treaty with Russia expired and America declared war on him it would be more or less accurate in that there would be no blatantly false statements made.
I don't think the Hitler-Stalin Pact actually expired. It was simply broken. Just like Stalin broke his non-aggression treaty with Japan a few years later.

Of course a lot of true statements are left out. That's another big problem with the Wikki....
But still, as soon as someone sees that article, they're gonna be outraged, and
a) there will be a message saying that the article is in dispute and
b) people will add the necessary bits and pieces.
If you have people from all kinds of backgrounds adding to it, their biases cancel each other out, and you're left with an accurate and complete bit of info.
I love Wiki, and I don't see how you can say that open-source software can't work, but free market libertarianism can. It's the same principle of people doing what they consider correct and the end product being a good thing.

I'm not saying Wikki does'nt work at all. It'a a good starting place for general overveiw. And I generally don't cite it as a primary sourse becuase that's not it's utility.

I'm not saying Wikki does'nt work at all. It'a a good starting place for general overveiw. And I generally don't cite it as a primary sourse becuase that's not it's utility.
Hey, if I have to I can reference stuff in full academic Harvard Business School style out of the top of my head.
But I thought this was merely a forum for people to have a bit of fun on. Generally I don't use wiki to really argue a point, but simply to level the playing field as far as everyone's knowledge on an issue is concerned.
This person now obviously wasn't aware of the details of how the war was conducted in 1918, and so I thought I'd find a nice wiki-article to bring him/her up to speed.
No more, no less. :)

I can't be ****ed going through this topic, so I'll just state my opinion.

The Central Powers should have won WWI. They were the good guys there. Face it, America, for once, you were the bad guys. The world would be a much better place if the Powers had won. I'm not going to justify the Holocaust, but when the good guys lose, ****ed up stuff happens.

Also, Europe should be kissing Germany's feet for taking the fall for them in WWII. If Germany hadn't rebuilt after WWI, the Soviets would have invaded and we'd all be speaking Russian now, because not even America could have held back the Soviets.

Also, Europe should be kissing Germany's feet for taking the fall for them in WWII. If Germany hadn't rebuilt after WWI, the Soviets would have invaded and we'd all be speaking Russian now, because not even America could have held back the Soviets.
That is assuming that the Red Army would have rebuilt itself after the great cleansings without the dire need to do so.
I think it is precisely because WWII that the Soviet Union turned out the way it did.

That is assuming that the Red Army would have rebuilt itself after the great cleansings without the dire need to do so.
I think it is precisely because WWII that the Soviet Union turned out the way it did.

Even without rebuilding, the Soviets could take at least Europe with sheer manpower. Let's compare.

Germany: Armed forces non-existant. Overrun by Soviets in a few days.

France: Same as WWII, Maginot Line useless against Soviet armour.

Britain: The only real challenge, with the RAF. Would still fall eventually.

Even without rebuilding, the Soviets could take at least Europe with sheer manpower. Let's compare.
Fair enough.
Remains the question whether Stalin was a man who naturally would've attacked other nations even before the experience of the "great patriotic war".

Fair enough.
Remains the question whether Stalin was a man who naturally would've attacked other nations even before the experience of the "great patriotic war".

Of course he would. Finland and Poland?

Of course he would. Finland and Poland?
Hmmm. Granted. :)

Not that I think this has any more value than the idea that the US saved the world from totalitarianism...they didn't do it for anything other than base self-interest.
But true, I'll try that next time the Americans claim to have saved us from speaking German, or Russian, or Chinese or Martian or whatever the topic of the day is. :D

I would like to randomly throw in German was almost the official language of America.

And now...it was necessary for the US to intervine in WWI, or our stock prices would have taken a hit. Look at practically every war America has been in, its been about money.

OI! If your not in the fight from the start, your not in the fight at all.

I'll try that next time the Americans claim to have saved us from speaking German, or Russian, or Chinese or Martian or whatever the topic of the day is. :D
That is a really annoying tendancy...bitch, moan and whine :"We saved your asses in [insert war here]"...
:rolleyes: Its getting old people!

Stop bringing up the past and we'll stop bringing up France's help in your War of Independence, deal?: :p

I would like to randomly throw in German was almost the official language of America.

No, no it wasn't. It's a common rumour, but never happened. What actually happened was a referendum about whether or not to print laws in German as well as English as to help German immigrants.

Hey Leonstein, I just noticed. You're a German living in Brisbane? I'm a German living in Melbourne.

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.


Both Britain and Germany owed large sums to the US, but the loser wouldnt be able to pay it.

Britain owed alot more money than Germany, so it HAD to win. Therefore, you supported Britain. Besides, it was a good way of getting rid of surplus manpower :)

No, no it wasn't. It's a common rumour, but never happened. What actually happened was a referendum about whether or not to print laws in German as well as English as to help German immigrants.
I heard the Continental Congress barely chose English over German as its official language (the US itself have no official language, so there wasn't a decision on it).

Yup. I think running around playing world police is the sort of thing to make folks upset enough to drive a plane into you. Yugoslavia is in Europe's back yard. Could'nt the EU handle it?

In short, no, the EU possesses no standing military force, since NATO is intended to fufill such a vocation.

In short, no, the EU possesses no standing military force, since NATO is intended to fufill such a vocation.Yes it does. There's been a bit of friction with NATO about it, but former Yugoslavia is currently being policed by forces under the EU flag.

Yes it does. There's been a bit of friction with NATO about it, but former Yugoslavia is currently being policed by forces under the EU flag.

Not a standing force, only a contributory force assembled at necessity.

Not a standing force, only a contributory force assembled at necessity.
Now why would that be unable to handle Yugoslavia?

Hey Leonstein, I just noticed. You're a German living in Brisbane? I'm a German living in Melbourne.
:)

Now why would that be unable to handle Yugoslavia?

I lack sufficient knowledge of the conflict to discern why, but it may feasibly be due to the Eu's members being unwilling to commit forces to a conflict wherin their own interests are likely to be effected, and to fight racially similar nations and people.

I heard the Continental Congress barely chose English over German as its official language (the US itself have no official language, so there wasn't a decision on it).

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/onevote.htm

That's probably what you're thinking of.

Besides, it's illogical. Why would a nation that was formed from English colonies use the German language?

I lack sufficient knowledge of the conflict to discern why, but it may feasibly be due to the Eu's members being unwilling to commit forces to a conflict wherin their own interests are likely to be effected, and to fight racially similar nations and people.How can you make such a statement if you lack the knowledge on the topic? Anyway, there aren't a lot of EU member nations that are "racially similar" to the peoples of former Yugoslavia...

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/onevote.htm

That's probably what you're thinking of.I said Continental Congress and not America, didn't I?

How can you make such a statement if you lack the knowledge on the topic? Anyway, there aren't a lot of EU member nations that are "racially similar" to the peoples of former Yugoslavia...

Not any more anyway :p

Sorry about the above, I was grasping at straws.

I said Continental Congress and not America, didn't I?

I still pretty sure that you're thinking of a story similar to the one I posted. If German was ever considered to be any kind of official language in America, I'd be very surprised.

I still pretty sure that you're thinking of a story similar to the one I posted. If German was ever considered to be any kind of official language in America, I'd be very surprised.Why? Pennsylvania was a rather German-speaking state. German wasn't that uncommon back then.

It's interesting that many of the American contributers are annoyed that the EU doesn't send troops in "to it's own back yard".
The Americans were dead against the setting up of a European Rapid Reaction force, saying that it would lead to the breakup of NATO:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,400394,00.html

Aside from the War for Independence, we should never have gotten involved in any of the wars we fought.


Even After being attacked by an military dictatorship? Even After half of the country left the country? Even after ....ahhh i got nothing else..lol

It was a totally useless war. There isn't a single justifiable reason for us entering it.

We had no reason to enter in my opinion.