NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051006/NEWS16/510060396

Members of the National Socialist Movement's Toledo-area unit are planning the march in response to crimes and threats allegedly committed against whites by the Dexter [Street] Boyz and Stickney 33 gangs, said Bill White, a national spokesman for the group and leader of its Roanoke, Va., unit. He said a few dozen members of what the movement claims is the largest socialist group in the United States are expected.

Mr. White said members plan to wear their uniforms of brown shirts, black pants, and red swastika armbands.

"We will be directed to events in that [North Toledo] neighborhood and Toledo's black crime problem in general," Mr. White said. "We want to let white people know that other white people are defending them ... "

Police Chief Mike Navarre and other city officials, who learned of the event yesterday, are re-searching the group and planning for its arrival.

"Our job is to protect these protesters," the chief said. "We'll be prepared to do that."

Lucas County Sheriff James Telb has offered to assist city police with additional law enforcement support.

Mayor Jack Ford said officials are not going to allow groups to "spread hate and unrest in our city."

He said police will maintain control at the march and address any acts of civil disobedience.

The best way for the general public to respond to the movement's presence that day is to ignore it, Mayor Ford said. Carty Finkbeiner, former strong mayor who is challenging Mr. Ford on the Nov. 8 ballot, did not return calls seeking comment.

Mayor Ford said he plans to meet formally and informally with neighbors in the neighborhood before the march.

He said he is appealing to adults, ministers, and community leaders to educate the youth in the neighborhood about the harmful effects of taking up the movement's challenge and to keep the groups from clashing.

Chief Navarre said the group will have to apply for a parade permit if it wants to close a street. He said the marchers may not walk down the street and obstruct the free passage of pedestrians or vehicles, but they may walk on the sidewalk.

Mr. White said the movement is not asking for special accommodations - including police protection - or to close down streets. If city officials try to ban the march, he said the group will take them to court.

Police said the problem in North Toledo apparently began over a dispute between Bronson Avenue resident Thomas Szych, who is white, and his neighbor, who is black, about a fence.

Mr. Szych was named in the socialist movement's press release because of his problems with gang members. Mr. Szych received a threatening flyer that indicated it was from the Dexter gang and he said he has had vandalism to his property.

Chief Navarre said Mr. Szych, his brother, and his father have made many complaints and reports about gang activity in the neighborhood. Officials aren't receiving complaints and reports from other residents, he said.

Mr. Szych said the police response to his complaints has been poor. Chief Navarre said police have devoted a large amount of resources to Mr. Szych's concerns.

"The officers following up on the complaints find them to be exaggerated," the chief said.
Mr. Ford said Mr. Szych's father made derogatory comments about two African-American officers, describing them as "gorillas with guns."

Mr. Szych, who bought a handgun for protection but had it taken for safekeeping by police after he allegedly waved it at youths, said he is not a part of the socialist movement and did not ask for the group's help.

Mr. White confirmed other local residents contacted the group, but would not identify them.

"I'm not against what they're doing," Mr. Szych said, "but I think what they're doing will create more havoc for the residents in the neighborhood."

WilliAnn Moore, president of the Toledo Branch of the NAACP, said she doesn't believe the socialist group is sincere about solving gang problems in Toledo. "It's sounds like they are looking for trouble," she said.

Ms. Moore said the NAACP is urging black youths to not even dignify the group's event.

"I have already talked with some of the members of the religious community and the regional director of the Ohio Civil Rights Commission and we will be doing something proactive so this doesn't turn into some kind of race war," she said.

Chief Navarre said authorities will work with the FBI and other officials to gather information about the socialist group and its activities. The group has held marches, rallies, and events in Valley Forge, Pa., Lincoln, Neb., and Yorktown, Va.

Hmm...really don't know who cheer for. Street Gangs or Nazis. It's a tough choice.

But still, does anyone think how the Nazi leader's name is "Mr. White" hilarious?

Let's just lock them all in a huge football dome and line the walls with melee weapons and let them fight it out.

Both are just mobs of thugs. One claiming to preserve law and order (for whites) and the other because of economic circumstances.

{snip}
Hmm...really don't know who cheer for. Street Gangs or Nazis. It's a tough choice.
{snip}
I'll cheer for the street gangs. At least they are Americans.

"Martha, fetch me my shotgun out 'ere on the porch will ya please, those there ne’er-do-wells are coming up the street again."

Let them do battle, it would make for a day for the whole family!

I'll probably have to cheer for the Nazis, because technically, they aren't breaking the law...

Let's just lock them all in a huge football dome and line the walls with melee weapons and let them fight it out.

Works for me. :p

I'm fully expecting the KKK to turn up as backup for the Nazis.

I'll probably have to cheer for the Nazis, because technically, they aren't breaking the law...

Word.

I'm fully expecting the KKK to turn up as backup for the Nazis.
Hmm, that may make thigns worse for the Nazis.
Nazi: Look what we have here, ghosts!
KKK: What, at least I'm not wearing some out-of-date arm band. That's so 1940s.
Nazi: Oh no you didn't!
KKK: Come on Hitler Jugend, I'll kick your ass!
Nazi: Ahhh!!!

Man thatd be a cool fight, the gangs would win cus probably some of the nazi's are like 40909707089879756432543.97898 years old

But still, does anyone think how the Nazi leader's name is "Mr. White" hilarious?It would be far more ironic if his name was "Mr. Black".

LOL I say we just let the Nazis exercize their right to assemble, and the Street Gangs exercize their right to bear arms. We'll be finished with em both :D

What really worries me is that they keep using Socialist rather than National Socialist to describe them. I rather think they're doing us nice humanitarian lefties a bad name and including us with a buch of gun toting racists.

They'd be called Sozies if it weren't for the National at the front.

It would be far more ironic if his name was "Mr. Black".

I wonder if this name is Barry White - whose's namesake is Black :p

LOL I say we just let the Nazis exercize their right to assemble, and the Street Gangs exercize their right to bear arms. We'll be finished with em both :D

That right only applies to overthrowing a a dictatorial government.

well I would support the nazis, they are just staging a demonstration, if they start shooting take them out, but otherwise leave them to their business

Hmm, that may make thigns worse for the Nazis.
Nazi: Look what we have here, ghosts!
KKK: What, at least I'm not wearing some out-of-date arm band. That's so 1940s.
Nazi: Oh no you didn't!
KKK: Come on Hitler Jugend, I'll kick your ass!
Nazi: Ahhh!!!


:D :p

I remember watching two college age guys carrying an American Flag on a pole at an anti-war rally out on the street in front of where I was working and their ‘parade’ went by (they were protesting the first gulf war)...

The first guy says: We should light the flag on fire to protest the bombing of the civilians.
Second guy:, Oh no! Everyone would get mad about the burning flag instead of the War!
First guy: Let them get mad, that's why we're here, to start a fight!
Second guy: No, we're here to show them what their government is doing in our name!
First Guy: Ah, forget it then, you're just a pacifist pansy...
Second guy: Pacifist? I'll show you Pacifist *Then proceeds to knock the first guy down by hitting him over the head with the flag pole!*


:p (true story)

What really worries me is that they keep using Socialist rather than National Socialist to describe them. I rather think they're doing us nice humanitarian lefties a bad name and including us with a buch of gun toting racists.

Indeed, haven't they heard of the [sic] thing you're supposed to use in quotes after incorrect things.

What really worries me is that they keep using Socialist rather than National Socialist to describe them. I rather think they're doing us nice humanitarian lefties a bad name and including us with a buch of gun toting racists.

They'd be called Sozies if it weren't for the National at the front.
Technically National Socialism's economic systesm was considred Socialism.

At least the girls are hot.

http://s1.simpload.com/080342f19315ba5fa.jpg

I'll probably have to cheer for the Nazis, because technically, they aren't breaking the law...

I hate both groups, but i hate the street gangs more.

I hate both groups, but i hate the street gangs more.

I agree completely, at elast the nazis maintained order :p

I agree completely, at elast the nazis maintained order :p

At least the Naxies made Croatia a satellite and promised them the whole Yugoslavia.

At least the Naxies made Croatia a satellite and promised them the whole Yugoslavia.

What are you actually implying?

I used to think my social studies teacher was a Nazi.

My sister had a crush on Hitler until she was eight because she always saw him on the History Channel and she thought it was awesome that everyone had to shout "Heil, Hitler!" at him.

At least the girls are hot.

http://s1.simpload.com/080342f19315ba5fa.jpg

By golly, they are! :eek:

If Hitler didn't attack Russia in the winter, than he could have took over Europe and Israel too probably.

What are you actually implying?

My great- grampa fought for a guerilla army for Croatia and Bosnia, they were a Nazi satellite. :D

If Hitler didn't attack Russia in the winter, than he could have took over Europe and Israel too probably.

True, he did though, thank god...

If Hitler didn't attack Russia in the winter, than he could have took over Europe and Israel too probably.

Except that there was no Israel at the time. ;)

Except that there was no Israel at the time. ;)

He could have taken over the Jews living there.

Let 'em protest, what harm are they doing? If every other bleeding heart cause can protest, why can't they?

We wouldn't get all bent out of shape over some group calling for "Land rights for gay whales" so leave these poor deluded saps to their goose-stepping protest. ;)

I'll cheer for the street gangs. At least they are Americans.

Yeah, distributing drugs, murdering, corrupting the nation's youth. Yeah, that's the American way.

Mr. White said members plan to wear their uniforms of brown shirts, black pants, and red swastika armbands.
Does anyone else find this color combination horrid? I mean red and black together are fine, but not with brown...<shudder>.

I'll cheer for the street gangs. At least they are Americans.

Street gangs fucked up entire neighborhoods, ruined the economic opportunity of blacks and other minorities, ruined their schools, help enslave millions to drugs every year, murder and rape and rob the innocent in their community, and overall destroy the chance of revitalizing America's inner cities. If anything, they're the real Nazis here.

Yeah, distributing drugs, murdering, corrupting the nation's youth. Yeah, that's the American way.

And it's been that way since the 70s...

Street gangs fucked up entire neighborhoods, ruined the economic opportunity of blacks and other minorities, ruined their schools, help enslave millions to drugs every year, murder and rape and rob the innocent in their community, and overall destroy the chance of revitalizing America's inner cities. If anything, they're the real Nazis here.

Or maybe the neighborhoods were fucked up and thus developed gangs.

Who says the economic opportunity of blacks is ruined? Or that the chance of "revitalizing" inner cities is "destroyed?" I think those are cop outs to justify your unwillingness to even try to solve the problem, allowing you to self righteously blame idiot children while you yourself take the moral high ground of nonaction.

Using drugs is being enslaved? Interesting take. I guess you do not believe in personal responsibility?

And your comparison of street criminals to Nazis is laughable at best. I think the people who goose step, worship Adolph Hitler, and call themselves nazis are a bit more nazi-like than some gang member, but then I also think blue is more like blue than yellow is.

At least the girls are hot.

*image snipped*
Is that Parra?!

Or maybe the neighborhoods were fucked up and thus developed gangs.

Who says the economic opportunity of blacks is ruined? Or that the chance of "revitalizing" inner cities is "destroyed?" I think those are cop outs to justify your unwillingness to even try to solve the problem, allowing you to self righteously blame idiot children while you yourself take the moral high ground of nonaction.

Using drugs is being enslaved? Interesting take. I guess you do not believe in personal responsibility?

And your comparison of street criminals to Nazis is laughable at best. I think the people who goose step, worship Adolph Hitler, and call themselves nazis are a bit more nazi-like than some gang member, but then I also think blue is more like blue than yellow is.


No, I think he hit it right on the head. They both deal in fear, they are both extremly ignorant and tribalistic. They are dependent upon the "party" or "gang." There are a number of similarities, and personally of the two, I think I'll be rooting for the Nesos. At least they have JOBS

Or maybe the neighborhoods were fucked up and thus developed gangs.

Gangs arose in force almost simultaneously with the devastation of the neighborhoods as a result of gross government incompetence during the 1960's.

Who says the economic opportunity of blacks is ruined? Or that the chance of "revitalizing" inner cities is "destroyed?" I think those are cop outs to justify your unwillingness to even try to solve the problem, allowing you to self righteously blame idiot children while you yourself take the moral high ground of nonaction.

Inner cities are dead; poverty rates for African Americans are almost unchanged since the implementation of the Great Society, urban unemployment reaches as high as 25%, unwed pregnancies have soared the governments turn a blind eye to the staggering corruption, crime and incompetence in the schools, and nobody in power wants to change this, so the situation is effectively dead.

Using drugs is being enslaved? Interesting take. I guess you do not believe in personal responsibility?

Not everyone who uses drugs did it voluntarily, and many children lack the parental instruction necessary to know better. These people, along with the family of those addicted to drugs, are enslaved to them.

And your comparison of street criminals to Nazis is laughable at best. I think the people who goose step, worship Adolph Hitler, and call themselves nazis are a bit more nazi-like than some gang member, but then I also think blue is more like blue than yellow is.

Of course they don't share the same ideals as Nazis, but their effects are more or less the same: they are directly involved in stomping out much of the opportunity for blacks and other minorities to succeed, and so are effectively debasing minorities to a level akin to that which the Nazis wanted.

The Nazis are also a lot fewer in number and much less dangerous.

No, I think he hit it right on the head. They both deal in fear, they are both extremly ignorant and tribalistic. They are dependent upon the "party" or "gang." There are a number of similarities, and personally of the two, I think I'll be rooting for the Nesos. At least they have JOBS

Everyone deals in fear. For example, by pointing out how the NAZIS have jobs, you are trying to play on most people's inherent fear of the homeless or unemployed. And most people are ignorant. Most people are 'tribalistic.' If you are going to say a Party is the same sort of "tribe" as a gang, thats loose enough you could say that hey, NationStates players are just the same as nazis too, since we are all dependent to some extent on the "game" or "party."

Of course there are a number of similarities, but so what? The Nazis are the nazi's here, the gangs are the gangs. Why the silly emphasis that gangs are somehow nazis? Is a "gang" not bad enough in your mind, that it needs to be likened to nazis to make it's evil-ness stand out? Or is it just trying to wrap Godwin's Law to yet another, oh-the-black-people-are-evil-and-hopeless, let's-sympathize-with-nazis-who-at-least-have-jobs type of thing?

Gangs arose in force almost simultaneously with the devastation of the neighborhoods as a result of gross government incompetence during the 1960's.

Okay, but you'd be hard-pressed to really say that gangs are the cause, no? Sounds like a chicken-egg problem. As you say, government incompetence is to blame. No?


Inner cities are dead; poverty rates for African Americans are almost unchanged since the implementation of the Great Society, urban unemployment reaches as high as 25%, unwed pregnancies have soared the governments turn a blind eye to the staggering corruption, crime and incompetence in the schools, and nobody in power wants to change this, so the situation is effectively dead.

Yeah, so because nobody in power wants to change things or cannot change things, its somehow a fault of the gangs themselves? They are clearly the symptom, not the cause. Besides, I think you're going a bit far blaming incompetence in schools on gangs, even. Jeez just look at this crap with people - mostly white people with jobs, I might add - trying to get "Intelligent Design" into the science class, or evolution out of school. And yeah, they're mostly rural, but when they seem to wield more political power it has more than a chance of ruining shit in schools all over the state.


Not everyone who uses drugs did it voluntarily, and many children lack the parental instruction necessary to know better. These people, along with the family of those addicted to drugs, are enslaved to them.

I doubt there are millions who would qualify as either not having done drugs voluntarily, or not 'knowing better.' Who doesn't "know" just to "say no?" Everyone knows that. But you're right about the problem of parental instruction lacking. But again, is that the fault of the gangs, or a widespread prevailing ignorance?


Of course they don't share the same ideals as Nazis, but their effects are more or less the same: they are directly involved in stomping out much of the opportunity for blacks and other minorities to succeed, and so are effectively debasing minorities to a level akin to that which the Nazis wanted.

I see your point, but I just don't agree that this debases minorities. Thinking that it does is kind of a slippery slope. Does terrorism debase Islam to a level which the Neocons want? Or do the latter simply state the connection themselves and emphasize it? If thats the case then it wouldn't matter how few gangs there are in reality, there will always be people who can point at a black person or an incidence of crime and say, "Aha! Look! Black people suck!" Just like people can take phrases from the Koran to condemn all Islam as barbaric terrorism.


The Nazis are also a lot fewer in number and much less dangerous.

I dunno. Their idealogy was far more successful, taking hold of one of the most advanced civilizations and forming it into a machine of conquest and death. Just because there are fewer of them today doesn't mean there will be tomorrow. Whereas street criminals per se have never taken love of the ghetto brotherhood to usurp a whole nation or start a world war. Just basing on precedent alone... I am against both nazis and gangs. But they are their own separate phenomena.

What strikes me is that Nazis exist outside of Germany. Don't they know that the Nazis wanted to enslave all non-Germans?

What strikes me is that Nazis exist outside of Germany. Don't they know that the Nazis wanted to enslave all non-Germans?

Yeah they just take the nationalism bit, and the racial purity bits, and apply them to themselves. So american nazis want to enslave non-americans, and think our hick-like slang version of English is the Master Speech.

Yeah they just take the nationalism bit, and the racial purity bits, and apply them to themselves. So american nazis want to enslave non-americans, and think our hick-like slang version of English is the Master Speech.
I fail to understand what "race" is an American, exactly. Very few Americans are not a mix of a few different ethnic groups. I, for example, am half Italian and half Lebanese.

LOL I say we just let the Nazis exercize their right to assemble, and the Street Gangs exercize their right to bear arms. We'll be finished with em both :D

Now that's the best idea I've heard all day, kill two birds with one stone.

Okay, but you'd be hard-pressed to really say that gangs are the cause, no? Sounds like a chicken-egg problem. As you say, government incompetence is to blame. No?

It's a chicken-egg problem that was sparked by blatant government incompetence during the 1960's. The programs put in place effectively encouraged the rapid rise of these gangs, which increased poverty, which led to more gangs, and so on. In fact, most of the powerful gangs in the US arose in these housing projects.

Yeah, so because nobody in power wants to change things or cannot change things, its somehow a fault of the gangs themselves? They are clearly the symptom, not the cause. Besides, I think you're going a bit far blaming incompetence in schools on gangs, even. Jeez just look at this crap with people - mostly white people with jobs, I might add - trying to get "Intelligent Design" into the science class, or evolution out of school. And yeah, they're mostly rural, but when they seem to wield more political power it has more than a chance of ruining shit in schools all over the state.

Too many politicians are afraid of being labeled "racist" for trying to take on crime in the inner city; I've heard it all the time in Cleveland and Cincinnati, and unfortunately the gangs make it difficult for anything else to improve. The politicians are afraid to take action, allowing the gangs to act with a too large degree of impunity, thereby worsening the problem and making the gangs stronger.

The schools are incompetent because the insanely large amounts of bureaucracy and administrative oversight make it hard for the teachers and others who interact with the students to provide them with what they need to educate the students, including taking on gangs.

The gangs make the environment in these schools brutal, effectively reducing the quality of education for everyone and exacerbating the crisis in an already problematic system.

The fundie-right war on science is nothing more than a waste of resources that could be better spent on actual teaching; instead, even poor or debt ridden schools must waste millions on fighting off their ridiculous claims, thereby making the situation worse.

I doubt there are millions who would qualify as either not having done drugs voluntarily, or not 'knowing better.' Who doesn't "know" just to "say no?" Everyone knows that. But you're right about the problem of parental instruction lacking. But again, is that the fault of the gangs, or a widespread prevailing ignorance?

The gangs help ruin the schools, which removes another source of instruction for these kids, and so they won't know enough about drugs' consequences to say "no" (if they don't know they're bad, and a lot of others are doing it, peer pressure will likely do the rest). Gangs ruin schools and crush economic opportunity, thereby leading to a cycle of ignorance that increases the problem of drug use. And these kids will likely have children themselves, and the cycle will continue.



I see your point, but I just don't agree that this debases minorities. Thinking that it does is kind of a slippery slope. Does terrorism debase Islam to a level which the Neocons want? Or do the latter simply state the connection themselves and emphasize it? If thats the case then it wouldn't matter how few gangs there are in reality, there will always be people who can point at a black person or an incidence of crime and say, "Aha! Look! Black people suck!" Just like people can take phrases from the Koran to condemn all Islam as barbaric terrorism.

I don't know for sure. Racists already use crime and drugs in the inner city as proof of the inferiority of black people, so I don't really know if stating this would actually encourage such thoughts anymore than the current situation.

I dunno. Their idealogy was far more successful, taking hold of one of the most advanced civilizations and forming it into a machine of conquest and death. Just because there are fewer of them today doesn't mean there will be tomorrow. Whereas street criminals per se have never taken love of the ghetto brotherhood to usurp a whole nation or start a world war. Just basing on precedent alone... I am against both nazis and gangs. But they are their own separate phenomena.

I'd say the "Nazi=Gangs" is more hyperbole than anything; obviously there are major differences between the two, and gangs are much more economically motivated than anything else. Still, they both posed, and pose, a threat to the wellbeing of their mutual victims.

Meh. Nazis are crazy, but they're pretty much harmless, so I'll be rooting for them against the Street Gangs.

Come on, say with me, SIEG HEIL!

I'll cheer for the street gangs. At least they are Americans.
Sigh.

My comment was just about over the top & may have ignited some intense commentary. I freely admit:

a) Poor attempt at "lesser-of-two-evils,"

and

b) False dichotomy.

However; Outside of an invasion of vile gonad chomping space invaders, I cannot see myself siding with anyone calling themselves Nazis - whatever past, present, or future variant they claim to be.

Hmm...really don't know who cheer for. Street Gangs or Nazis. It's a tough choice.

But still, does anyone think how the Nazi leader's name is "Mr. White" hilarious?


Difficult choice. :(

:mp5: Nazis or Gangsters. :mp5:

I'll support the local police and see who they attack with riot control and SWAT.....

What strikes me is that Nazis exist outside of Germany. Don't they know that the Nazis wanted to enslave all non-Germans?
Well, there were two reasons why it existed outside germany in the 1930's and today [one per time period.]

1930s - Outwardly nazism looked just like Fascism, nationalistic dictatorship with a slightly socialist attitude, only difference was they blamed the lesser races. So, like Fascism the idea behind it seemed to be exportable, and it moved to other areas.

Today - Now we know the germans wanted all non-Aryans to be killed or somesuch, but Aryan has been expanded to incude all white males. So weather you are an Italian, a german, a Russian or a Brit, you can by a Aryan Nazi.

~~~

*sigh* Things like this remind me of how many racist asses there are left in the U.S....I';ve known there was a semi-strong nazi party in the U.S., but I never like to think about it.

What strikes me is that Nazis exist outside of Germany. Don't they know that the Nazis wanted to enslave all non-Germans?
Well, there were two reasons why it existed outside germany in the 1930's and today [one per time period.]

1930s - Outwardly nazism looked just like Fascism, nationalistic dictatorship with a slightly socialist attitude, only difference was they blamed the lesser races. So, like Fascism the idea behind it seemed to be exportable, and it moved to other areas.

Today - Now we know the germans wanted all non-Aryans to be killed or somesuch, but Aryan has been expanded to incude all white males. So weather you are an Italian, a german, a Russian or a Brit, you can by a Aryan Nazi.

~~~

*sigh* Things like this remind me of how many racist asses there are left in the U.S....I';ve known there was a semi-strong nazi party in the U.S., but I never like to think about it.

If Hitler didn't attack Russia in the winter, than he could have took over Europe and Israel too probably.

True, he did though, thank god...
Since when 22 June is a winter day in the Northern Hemisphere?

Since when 22 June is a winter day in the Northern Hemisphere?

Never, but most people dont know what happened on June 22nd 1941.

I'm thinking it's time for an impotant scene from an important movie to be reenacted in Toledo...

And it involves the Bluesmobile. And sunglasses. And a bridge.

I'm thinking it's time for an impotant scene from an important movie to be reenacted in Toledo...

And it involves the Bluesmobile. And sunglasses. And a bridge.
Toledo Nazis? I hate Toledo Nazis!

I'm thinking it's time for an impotant scene from an important movie to be reenacted in Toledo...

And it involves the Bluesmobile. And sunglasses. And a bridge.

maybe it'll be more like Greensboro in 79

I'm thinking it's time for an impotant scene from an important movie to be reenacted in Toledo...

And it involves the Bluesmobile. And sunglasses. And a bridge.
"We're on a mission from Goering."

Mmmm. I dunno.