NationStates Jolt Archive

If Bush is the new Nero, then Islam is clearly the new Christianity.
Discuss, Debate.

I don't know about that but I've heard anorexia is the new black.

That's like asking if meth is the new coke.

That's like asking if meth is the new coke.

How so?

or is Christianity the New Islam?

or is Christianity the New Islam?

Explain.

I don't think that CAN be explained. In my humble opinion, I believe Islam and Christianity to be very different. On the outside, they seem similar. Why? Well, they each worship one god, value good morals, and try to lead a righteous life. But the core beliefs of both are very different and if you examine ther religious texts, you will find that they differ in many areas!

Both Christianity and Islam need to be smashed into the dirt and forgotton, for look at the chaos, hatred, homophobia, racism, and evil that both faiths have spread (more so than any other religion combined) in the name of God.

At least this is my view.

Both Christianity and Islam need to be smashed into the dirt and forgotton, for look at the chaos, hatred, homophobia, racism, and evil that both faiths have spread (more so than any other religion combined) in the name of God.

At least this is my view.
I'd like to see an end to both religions too.

Both Christianity and Islam need to be smashed into the dirt and forgotton, for look at the chaos, hatred, homophobia, racism, and evil that both faiths have spread (more so than any other religion combined) in the name of God.

At least this is my view.


Amen, brother.

Both Christianity and Islam need to be smashed into the dirt and forgotton, for look at the chaos, hatred, homophobia, racism, and evil that both faiths have spread (more so than any other religion combined) in the name of God.

At least this is my view.
Wow, 8 posts and already over 1.5-ish billion people have had their beliefs stomped on, shaken, and spat on.

Gee, with that attitude...

To clarify, I was not referring to the beliefs of the religions, but, rather, to the general opinion about the religion, and the governments persecution of followers.
Nero persecuted christians, and Bush now persecutes Muslims, though not to the same degree.

Both Christianity and Islam need to be smashed into the dirt and forgotton, for look at the chaos, hatred, homophobia, racism, and evil that both faiths have spread (more so than any other religion combined) in the name of God.

At least this is my view.

Christianity has had nothing to do with the spread of the fear of homosexuality.

Many Southerners in the United States felt that the Bible supported their racist attitudes toward African Americans (and slavery)... but this must be hidden somewhere in the Old Testament (and required quite a leap of abstraction to apply it to African Americans...), because Jesus taught to love and treat everyone equally, to treat others like you would want to be treated.

Jesus did not spread evil. Jesus taught us to treat others well/fairly, to live good/decent lives, etc.

Wars have been fought to allow Christians rights to hang out in the Middle East (Crusades), yes, and the Catholics did have the Inquisition(s)... but that's on the Catholics, not on the faith.

Wow, 8 posts and already over 1.5-ish billion people have had their beliefs stomped on, shaken, and spat on.

Gee, with that attitude...
Probably closer to 3.5 or 4 billion. Remember, we've included Christianity along with Islam.

I don't think that CAN be explained. In my humble opinion, I believe Islam and Christianity to be very different. On the outside, they seem similar. Why? Well, they each worship one god, value good morals, and try to lead a righteous life. But the core beliefs of both are very different and if you examine ther religious texts, you will find that they differ in many areas!

It seems to me that the core beliefs are very similiar, what differs are the social laws. Please explain to me how they differ in core beliefs.

Khallayne, go to hell with your statement. Islam & Christianity are totally different. You are the one who in head got devils mind like bush. :mad:

Is Fox News the new Comedy Network?

Both Christianity and Islam need to be smashed into the dirt and forgotton, for look at the chaos, hatred, homophobia, racism, and evil that both faiths have spread (more so than any other religion combined) in the name of God.

At least this is my view.

Don't forget Hinduism. Though not as widespread, they still have a huge system of inequality. Nevertheless, I agree.

And Frangland, whether or not Jesus spread evil, he spoke in vague terms that have been used to spread evil. And, in my personal experience, he doesn't wash his hair often enough.

It seems to me that the core beliefs are very similiar, what differs are the social laws. Please explain to me how they differ in core beliefs.

well the core belief of Christianity is that Jesus is God incarnate and died on the cross to account for the sins of the world, so that if people believe in him, their immortal souls would be saved.

I'm not certain, but i think that Islam is about following the teaching of Muhammad (or Mohammed). He had a dream, and in the dream God told him the texts to write to serve as a guide for living.

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 2)

If Bush is the new Nero, then Islam is clearly the new Christianity.
Discuss, Debate.

That is inane logic.

It's easy, I'll explain the similarities and differences.

I.
Christians believe that only Christians are correct about God, and everyone else is going to hell.

Muslims believe that only Muslims are correct about God, and everyone else is going to hell.

II.
Most Christian denominations believe that they are the only ones correct, and all other Christians are going to hell too.

Most Muslim denominations believe that they are the only ones correct, and all other Muslims are going to hell too.

III.

Extremist Christians believe they are justified in killing others in the name of God, because everyone else is wrong and they must save their children from the heathens, etc.

Extremist Muslims believe they are justified in killing others in the name of God, because everyone else is wrong and they must save their children from the heathens, etc.

See? :D

That is inane logic.

I disagree. It's basic logic.
Nero persecuted Christians, Bush persecutes Muslims. Therefore, if we are to liken Bush to Nero, we are to liken Christianity to Islam.

Im Muslim and ive done some religous studies and so i can say.we believe in mostly the same things as Christians but like Protestants and Catholics Christians are different from each other and just like Sunni and Shiite Muslims are
different from each other so are the Muslims and Christians different from each other.

If you would, allow me to explain the differences in some areas.

Islam: God - There is only one God, Allah, who has no equals. Jesus - He was a very esteemed messenger of Allah. Jesus was a great prophet, but he was not God. Allah saved Jesus from the crossby raising him to himself before death. Human Beings - Humans were created by Allah to be basically good. They are destined for heaven unless they disobey Allah. Sin - Allah gives humans the choice to obey or disobey his laws. Disobedience is sin. The Afterlife - Muslims who perform all of the essential obligations in worship with the proper attitude of total submission to Allah will go to paradise (heaven). All others will go to hell, a place of everlasting torment.

Christianity: God - God is the ruler of all and exists as one God in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is the eternal creator of the universe in which we live. God reveals himself to human beings through the Bible and through creation. Jesus - Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. He is God's Son and part of the Trinity. Jesus died on a cross and was resurrected for the forgiveness of sins. Human Beings - Humans were created by God for a relationship with him. Each person is separated from God by sin but can find forgiveness and a restored relationship with God through faith in Jesus. Sin - All human beings are sinful and that sin separates them from God. The Afterlife - Human beings who have a faith relationship with Jesus will go to heaven when they die and spend eternity with God. Those who do not place their faith in Jesus will be separated from God in hell.

To clarify, I was not referring to the beliefs of the religions, but, rather, to the general opinion about the religion, and the governments persecution of followers.
Nero persecuted christians, and Bush now persecutes Muslims, though not to the same degree.

Ah yes because lining streets with the skinned and immolated bodies of Christians nailed to poles by the hundreds of thousands can obviously be compared to...... what exactly? :rolleyes:

Honestly, a lot of people judge others offhandedly based on nothing but ignorance but damn... the more I encounter Canadians the more I'm convinced that your damn country is a fairytale-esque vacation from reality. Perhaps in your soddened mind the word "persecution" rings a bell but dude, your ignorance is showing. Get the hell out of the north and maybe visit one of the less savory corners of the world where you can be tortured or killed for being different.

Both Christianity and Islam need to be smashed into the dirt and forgotton, for look at the chaos, hatred, homophobia, racism, and evil that both faiths have spread (more so than any other religion combined) in the name of God.

At least this is my view.Unfortunately for you, the US was founded on religious freedom, and so long as I do not break the law in doing so, I am allowed to practice my religion. =)

If you would, allow me to explain the differences in some areas.

Islam: God - There is only one God, Allah, who has no equals. Jesus - He was a very esteemed messenger of Allah. Jesus was a great prophet, but he was not God. Allah saved Jesus from the crossby raising him to himself before death. Human Beings - Humans were created by Allah to be basically good. They are destined for heaven unless they disobey Allah. Sin - Allah gives humans the choice to obey or disobey his laws. Disobedience is sin. The Afterlife - Muslims who perform all of the essential obligations in worship with the proper attitude of total submission to Allah will go to paradise (heaven). All others will go to hell, a place of everlasting torment.

Christianity: God - God is the ruler of all and exists as one God in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is the eternal creator of the universe in which we live. God reveals himself to human beings through the Bible and through creation. Jesus - Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. He is God's Son and part of the Trinity. Jesus died on a cross and was resurrected for the forgiveness of sins. Human Beings - Humans were created by God for a relationship with him. Each person is separated from God by sin but can find forgiveness and a restored relationship with God through faith in Jesus. Sin - All human beings are sinful and that sin separates them from God. The Afterlife - Human beings who have a faith relationship with Jesus will go to heaven when they die and spend eternity with God. Those who do not place their faith in Jesus will be separated from God in hell.

As I have already pointed out, the question is not regarding the beliefs of Christians versus the beliefs of muslims. Read the original post, and research the issue of you do not understand. Please DO NOT vote in the poll based on the christian/muslim concepts of god, heavan, etc. Vote only based on whether or not the persecution of Muslims is the same as that of Christians 2000 years ago.

And Frangland, whether or not Jesus spread evil, he spoke in vague terms that have been used to spread evil. And, in my personal experience, he doesn't wash his hair often enough.
Then let's ban Marxism, nationalism, science, and many, many more things. They've all been indirectly or directly linked to evil.

As I have already pointed out, the question is not regarding the beliefs of Christians versus the beliefs of muslims. Read the original post, and research the issue of you do not understand. Please DO NOT vote in the poll based on the christian/muslim concepts of god, heavan, etc. Vote only based on whether or not the persecution of Muslims is the same as that of Christians 2000 years ago.
Well, perhaps it's just me, but I fail to see any Muslim's being crucified, fed to lions, hunted by soldiers and executed for their beliefs or the rest. To claim that the acts of Nero are anywhere similar to the current behaviors of the Bush administration are not only inaccurate, but quite silly as well.

well the core belief of Christianity is that Jesus is God incarnate and died on the cross to account for the sins of the world, so that if people believe in him, their immortal souls would be saved.

I'm not certain, but i think that Islam is about following the teaching of Muhammad (or Mohammed). He had a dream, and in the dream God told him the texts to write to serve as a guide for living.

I think that the beliefs of some Christians and the core Teaching of the Christ are two very different fruits. What did Christ teach and what did Muhammed teach? Those are the core beliefs.

Then let's ban Marxism, nationalism, science, and many, many more things. They've all been indirectly or directly linked to evil.
Yes, but science and to a lesser extent, nationalism are actually usefull for something.

Unfortunately for you, the US was founded on religious freedom, and so long as I do not break the law in doing so, I am allowed to practice my religion. =)

No one is saying that you can't. We're just stating our belief that organized religions are the single most destructive force in the history of the world. And should be destroyed in the interests of mankind. See, we are utilizing OUR first amendment rights to free speech.


But, wow, a Christian citing freedom of religion. I don't think it has ever happened before on this forum. Usually it is us atheists, agnostics, and pagans who have to.

Yes, but science and to a lesser extent, nationalism are actually usefull for something.
Yet religion has also proven to have many uses. Throughout human history religious scholars have developed complex philosophies, artists inspired by religion have created some of the greatest works of art, and in north-central Europe and Great Britain has proven to have had a liberalizing effect. To say that religion has no use is patently false.

I don't like organized religion in general. However I have been raised as a Christian, so I guess that Christianity is my religion. Yet I feel that Islam, Judaism(sp?) and Christianity are all corrupt and have fallen from the true words of God.

I believe in God, but not in organized religion, yet I am more Christian than anything else.

If Bush is the new Nero, then Islam is clearly the new Christianity.
Discuss, Debate.
The EU is the new USA ;)

Ah yes because lining streets with the skinned and immolated bodies of Christians nailed to poles by the hundreds of thousands can obviously be compared to...... what exactly? :rolleyes:

Honestly, a lot of people judge others offhandedly based on nothing but ignorance but damn... the more I encounter Canadians the more I'm convinced that your damn country is a fairytale-esque vacation from reality. Perhaps in your soddened mind the word "persecution" rings a bell but dude, your ignorance is showing. Get the hell out of the north and maybe visit one of the less savory corners of the world where you can be tortured or killed for being different.

Excuse me? Just because my country values peace and human rights DOES NOT mean that I deserve to be killed or tortured.
I am fully aware that the extent of persecution of Christians in ancient Rome was much more extreme then the contemporary prejudices against Muslims. However, one must understand that society's evolution since Ancient Roman times means that it would be rare for the most powerful country's streets to be places of horric torture. In comparison to the generally accepted beliefs of today in the western world, Bush's assumption that all Muslims are terrorists could be seen as rather Nero-esque.
I made this poll after reading discussions of Bush's similarity to Roman leaders such as Nero and Calligula. I meant to take a public inventory of whether or not people agree with that idea; I did not mean to offend anyone, and I apologise to any living Christians that were nailed to a cross two thousand years ago.
EDIT: In addition, you have the right to object to my beliefs, but you do not have the right to tell me that I need to leave my country and experience torture. That would be making the debate personal, which it shouldn't be.

If Islam is the new Christianity, what's the new Islam?

No one is saying that you can't. We're just stating our belief that organized religions are the single most destructive force in the history of the world. And should be destroyed in the interests of mankind. See, we are utilizing OUR first amendment rights to free speech.


But, wow, a Christian citing freedom of religion. I don't think it has ever happened before on this forum. Usually it is us atheists, agnostics, and pagans who have to.
Actually fanaticism of all sorts is the single most destructive force in the history of the world. Fanatical nationalists drove Europe to destruction in the middle of the last century. Fanatical communists killed tens of millions in the USSR and PRC. Moderacy in religion has never harmed anyone.

Then let's ban Marxism, nationalism, science, and many, many more things. They've all been indirectly or directly linked to evil.
*OR* let's ban people for being linked to evil! (just joking obviously ;) )

If Islam is the new Christianity, what's the new Islam?

Nothing, for a few years.

Excuse me? Just because my country values peace and human rights DOES NOT mean that I deserve to be killed or tortured.
I am fully aware that the extent of persecution of Christians in ancient Rome was much more extreme then the contemporary prejudices against Muslims. I believe that he was not saying that you should be killed or tortured.However, one must understand that society's evolution since Ancient Roman times means that it would be rare for the most powerful country's streets to be places of horric torture. In comparison to the generally accepted beliefs of today in the western world, Bush's assumption that all Muslims are terrorists could be seen as rather Nero-esque.
Where, might I ask, did this one come from? Bush has never charged that Muslims are all terrorists. In fact, after the September 11th attacks he explicity said that they weren't. If Muslims were viewed universally as terrorists, they'd have been rounded up all across the country in a scene reminisicent of the move "The Siege" but no such situation has developed. In a short period of time I expect to help a student from Saudi Arabia attending my university with his conversational English. If the US viewed all Muslims as terrorists, then he certainly wouldn't be coming here.

I believe that he was not saying that you should be killed or tortured.
Where, might I ask, did this one come from? Bush has never charged that Muslims are all terrorists. In fact, after the September 11th attacks he explicity said that they weren't. If Muslims were viewed universally as terrorists, they'd have been rounded up all across the country in a scene reminisicent of the move "The Siege" but no such situation has developed. In a short period of time I expect to help a student from Saudi Arabia attending my university with his conversational English. If the US viewed all Muslims as terrorists, then he certainly wouldn't be coming here.

Perhaps that was an exaggeration, but the Patriot Act is living proof that Bush has an unfounded prejudice against muslims.

I don't think that CAN be explained. In my humble opinion, I believe Islam and Christianity to be very different. On the outside, they seem similar. Why? Well, they each worship one god, value good morals, and try to lead a righteous life. But the core beliefs of both are very different and if you examine ther religious texts, you will find that they differ in many areas!

They are very similar. Islam even has Jesus and Moses in their religious texts. They aren't as different as people might want to believe.

If you mean in the sense that its driving people to be evil, then yes. Otherwise no.

Perhaps that was an exaggeration, but the Patriot Act is living proof that Bush has an unfounded prejudice against muslims.
Actually the Patriot Act is proof that Bush has no idea how to deal with terrorism, it does not specifically target Muslims, and is by and large a copy-and-paste version of currently existing drug laws. Which, we can see have been so effective...

I think a better question is "Is Christianity the new Islam?" Islamic countries used to be the at the hight of scientific and culture. WTF happened?

I think a better question is "Is Christianity the new Islam?" Islamic countries used to be the at the hight of scientific and culture. WTF happened?

the same thing that happened to Christianity, Judiasm you name. They drifted away from the spirit of the religion and followed the form only.

If Islam is the new Christianity, what's the new Islam?

The Revelation after Islam is the Baha'i Faith.

As I have already pointed out, the question is not regarding the beliefs of Christians versus the beliefs of muslims. Read the original post, and research the issue of you do not understand. Please DO NOT vote in the poll based on the christian/muslim concepts of god, heavan, etc. Vote only based on whether or not the persecution of Muslims is the same as that of Christians 2000 years ago.

It's too late, the poll results have already been hopelessly marred by the vagueness of the poll question. Next time you must elaborate your stipulations in the opening post if you want people to make informed votes. For instance in the first post write "please base your vote on the comparison of the persecution of Muslims today to that of Christians two millenia ago". Or better yet make that the poll question.

It's too late, the poll results have already been hopelessly marred by the vagueness of the poll question. Next time you must elaborate your stipulations in the opening post if you want people to make informed votes. For instance in the first post write "please base your vote on the comparison of the persecution of Muslims today to that of Christians two millenia ago". Or better yet make that the poll question.

It was my supposition that including the reference to Nero in the original post was enough to suggest the topic. I'm a poet, and I hate to be blunt about my meanings, but I really did include enough information for any educated poster to figure out the essential question. I must have over-estimated the level of intelligence of those who visit this board. Please forgive me.

Well, I got it as soon as I read the thread title.

Well, I got it as soon as I read the thread title.

Finally! Thank you!

Then let's ban Marxism, nationalism, science, and many, many more things. They've all been indirectly or directly linked to evil.

I'm not saying we ban Jesus, I'm saying we ban evil that has come under his banner. In the same way, ban evil founded on Marxism, nationalism, science, and many more things.

Christians believe that only Christians are correct about God, and everyone else is going to hell.

Incorrect, at least in the way I see it.

I believe that anyone good can go to heaven, regardless of their beliefs. For example, I don't think god would deny entry to an atheist that died saving a child from a burning building. In general, I reckon that anyone who tries to lead a good life & is kind to others, they can go to heaven.

It was my supposition that including the reference to Nero in the original post was enough to suggest the topic. I'm a poet, and I hate to be blunt about my meanings, but I really did include enough information for any educated poster to figure out the essential question. I must have over-estimated the level of intelligence of those who visit this board. Please forgive me.


This is NationStates give us a topic, any topic and we will take it wherever we want to. Haven't you noticed that before?

I think a better question is "Is Christianity the new Islam?" Islamic countries used to be the at the hight of scientific and culture. WTF happened?
They were so complacent in their thinking that their way of life was obviously the best, after all they were the most advanced, that they stopped trying to porgress. Meanwhile Europe experimented with new ideas and invented new forms of government, new ways of thinking, and new technologies that left the Muslim world far behind. Basically Islam's success led to arrogance which led to it's fall.

I think that religions have a maturing period myself. You could almost say its a cycle that most religions have gone through. If you look at Islam and Christianity lets say. Islams birth is roughly the 7th century. About 700 years younger than Christiananity. Now if you were to subtract 700 years from the Christian life span you would have the 14th Century. There are alot of simularities between some of the radical Islams doings and teachings compared to radical Christians of that era. Of course you have to adjust for the modern age. But in my opinion its just a process by which alot of religions have gone through. I believe that Islam will come through this rough period in its existance. Most likely alot faster than previous religions before due to the information age. Now this is just my opinion as a layman. You may or may not agree with this.

They were so complacent in their thinking that their way of life was obviously the best, after all they were the most advanced, that they stopped trying to porgress. Meanwhile Europe experimented with new ideas and invented new forms of government, new ways of thinking, and new technologies that left the Muslim world far behind. Basically Islam's success led to arrogance which led to it's fall.

This explains part of what happened to Islam. But it doesn't explain how a religion and a region that was open and welcoming to all became by the middle of the 19th Century the most corrupt and backward. How a religion that was more understanding and tolerant towards Jews than Europe and Christianity was became filled with hate and intolerance. That can only be explained by the religion being hijacked by fundementalist and strict literalist. Hijacked by those who refused to look at the spirit of the Quran and believed in only the letter of the law. Just like Judiasm when Christ warned the Priests and Rabbai's about those who followed the letter of the law.

This explains part of what happened to Islam. But it doesn't explain how a religion and a region that was open and welcoming to all became by the middle of the 19th Century the most corrupt and backward. How a religion that was more understanding and tolerant towards Jews than Europe and Christianity was became filled with hate and intolerance. That can only be explained by the religion being hijacked by fundementalist and strict literalist. Hijacked by those who refused to look at the spirit of the Quran and believed in only the letter of the law. Just like Judiasm when Christ warned the Priests and Rabbai's about those who followed the letter of the law.
Personally I think Islam only seemed liberal, open and welcoming to all because it's compared to christianity at that time, which was rigid, brutal, and oppressive. There were also quite a few hardliners in Islam even in the old days. There were places where the strictest forms of Sharia were in place. Where Jews and Christians had to wear special clothing identifying them, where they weren't allowed to build churches or synogogs, where they were subject to execution if any Muslim accused them of speaking ill of the prophet.

It's easy, I'll explain the similarities and differences.

I.
Christians believe that only Christians are correct about God, and everyone else is going to hell.

Muslims believe that only Muslims are correct about God, and everyone else is going to hell.

II.
Most Christian denominations believe that they are the only ones correct, and all other Christians are going to hell too.

Most Muslim denominations believe that they are the only ones correct, and all other Muslims are going to hell too.

III.

Extremist Christians believe they are justified in killing others in the name of God, because everyone else is wrong and they must save their children from the heathens, etc.

Extremist Muslims believe they are justified in killing others in the name of God, because everyone else is wrong and they must save their children from the heathens, etc.

See? :D

Bzzzt! Most Muslims belive Muslims, Jews, Christians and Sabians will go to heaven.

No, no, no. Just... no.

You know what the difference between Christianity and islam is?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008478.php

It really depends upon what time period we are talking about. Certainly the things you speak of happened. But for the first few centuries Islam was the flower of creativity, education, commerce and human rights. Jews were welcomed into the cities and countries and allowed to contribute to the society. Later as the rulers both religious and secular drifted further away from the teaching of the Prophet the Islamic nations became less and less open and tolerant.

People have, and do, kill, burn books, prejudge and opress in the name of Christianity and Islam. And pretty much every other religion and ideology.

Saying one religion is 'nicer' or 'better' than another is totally naive. However, it's totally stupid to base a religion based on its hardliners.

The problem is that a very large number of muslims are radical. Something along the lines of... the whole Middle East?

Whereas there is no nation where a there is a conservative Christian majority, and certainly no nation where they coudl come to power. Well, except the Vatican, but... look at the tinyness!

If Bush is the new Nero, then Islam is clearly the new Christianity.
Discuss, Debate.
Bush IS the new Nero, and may God help us! But, if Islam is the new Christianity, then we are beyond God's help!
As bad as some fundamentalist Christians are, I would rather DIE than live under the law of the Sharia!

'Course, the likes of me probably wouldn't live long under the Sharia, anyway, They'd kill me at their first chance! Then again, so would a lot of so-called Christians, if they thought they could get away with it!

Wow, 8 posts and already over 1.5-ish billion people have had their beliefs stomped on, shaken, and spat on.

Gee, with that attitude...


when they stop killing people over whos god is better then maybe you'd have a point

Wow, 8 posts and already over 1.5-ish billion people have had their beliefs stomped on, shaken, and spat on.

Gee, with that attitude...
Wow...only 8 centuries, and 1.5 billion-ish people have been denied their rights, their dignity, and their lives...1.5 billion-ish people have been figuratively stomped on, shaken, spat on, and stoned to death, literally...and some have also been burned at the stake!

Take a look at your hateful fundamentalists, and you will understand why many have this attitude towards religion!