NationStates Jolt Archive

The lyrics are shallow, especially compared to bands like Jethro Tull or Yes! The instrumentation is primitive, and the people listening to it are SHITHEADS.
Yes, for those Greenday and emo-rock fans, this is a big fuck you to all of you.

Go Therion, champions of grandeur and harmonious blending of orchestra and metal.
Go Dimmu Borgir, neo-Wagner inverted glory merchants.
Go Nightwish… make me so sad…

I hate that song "Smile Like You Mean It". Give me "Ginnungagap" or "Ghost Love Score".

So yeah, I mostly agree with the OP's violent sentiment. :)

How can you say that, when we have groups like Portishead, Massive Attack, Garbage, Deftones and Nightwish? :mad:

There are still some good bands... just none in north america.

Go Therion, champions of grandeur and harmonious blending of orchestra and metal.
Go Dimmu Borgir, neo-Wagner inverted glory merchants.
Go Nightwish… make me so sad…

I hate that song "Smile Like You Mean It". Give me "Ginnungagap" or "Ghost Love Score".

So yeah, I mostly agree with the OP's violent sentiment. :)

I have only heard the names, I am not a huge fan of metal myself. I love the originators: Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Cream. But I'm not fond of the genere itself.
I have heard Dimmu though, I did enjoy his song. I suppose I should go buy a CD of his.

By the same reasoning, of course, I could argue that all '70s music is shit because people bought Dana records back then.

Go Therion, champions of grandeur and harmonious blending of orchestra and metal.
Go Dimmu Borgir, neo-Wagner inverted glory merchants.
Go Nightwish… make me so sad…

I hate that song "Smile Like You Mean It". Give me "Ginnungagap" or "Ghost Love Score".

So yeah, I mostly agree with the OP's violent sentiment. :)


"To Mega Therion" and "Desert of Seth", now that's good. ;) And, yeah, I agree, "Ginnungagap" is awesome.

Although, Dimmu Borgir..., nah, and Nightwish, bleh. O_o

I'm sure somebody has said that in every generation. About music, plays, books, movies, and et cetera ad infinitum.

By the same reasoning, of course, I could argue that all '70s music is shit because people bought Dana records back then.

The seventies was when progressive rock was born. Jethro Tull(Thick as a Brick is a masterpiece, poetically and instrumentally.) Yes!, King Crimson, dozens of others. And let us not forget that many bands debuted in the early seventies, most notably, Black Sabbath.

I'm sure every person has said that in every generation. About music, plays, books, movies, and et cetera ad infinitum.

You are absolutely right, but examine the lyrics of music today. Then compare that to "Revolver" or "Paranoid"(the albums.) Or "It's alright ma"( song by Bob Dylan), to Usher's "Yeah."
How can you even look at both of them as the same sort of thing. One of euphonious melody, the other is trash.

American music might suck, but European music, especially (symphonic) metal, seems to be flourishing.

American music might suck, but European music, especially (symphonic) metal, seems to be flourishing.

Symphonic metal is still lacking. The occult themes(which have become the inane babblings of a someone who doesn't even understand the basic tenents of Satanism) are beginning to become very trite. Real occult music starts with Black Widow(a British progressive rock band.)
On top of that ABBA came out of Europe, you have defiled music forever, just for producing them.

The seventies was when progressive rock was born. Jethro Tull (Thick as a Brick is a masterpiece, poetically and instrumentally.) Yes!, King Crimson, dozens of others. And let us not forget that many bands debuted in the early seventies, most notably, Black Sabbath.
Black Sabbath debuted in the late '60s, as did King Crimson and Jethro Tull.
A lot of progressive rock was horseshit: for every Amon Duul 2 or Van Der Graaf Generator there were a half dozen ghastly little joke bands like Yes or The Cockney Rebel.

On top of that ABBA came out of Europe, you have defiled music forever, just for producing them.
Oh please. ABBA was a necessary sacrifice so we could have Ace of Base.

The lyrics are shallow, especially compared to bands like Jethro Tull or Yes! The instrumentation is primitive, and the people listening to it are SHITHEADS.
Yes, for those Greenday and emo-rock fans, this is a big fuck you to all of you.
These are shallow lyrics?


Cruxshadows - "Winterborn"

"Dry your eyes and quietly bear this pain with pride
For heaven shall remember the silent and the brave
And promise me they will never see, the fear within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
We will give strength to those who still remain

So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate

(I've waited all day in the pouring rain, but nobody came, no, nobody came)

And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be your light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winter born
Without denying, a faith is come
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winter born

Hold your head up high-for there is no greater love
Think of the faces of the people you defend
(you defend)
And promise me, they will never see the tears within our eyes
(my eyes are closed)
Although we are men, with mortal sins, angels never cry

So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate

And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be your light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winter born
Without denying, a faith in God
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winter born

And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winter born
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)
And in our Dying, we're more alive-than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter born

And in the fury of this darkest hour
We will be the light
You've asked me for my sacrifice
And I am Winter born
Without denying, a faith in man
That I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
And I am Winter born

Within this moment now
I am for you, though better men have failed
I will give my life for love
For I am Winter born
And in my dying
I'm more alive, than I have ever been
I will make this sacrifice
For I am Winter born"


As an aside, properly used violins kick ass.

The lyrics are shallow, especially compared to bands like Jethro Tull or Yes! The instrumentation is primitive, and the people listening to it are SHITHEADS.
Yes, for those Greenday and emo-rock fans, this is a big fuck you to all of you.
Man... you need to get out more. There's plenty of good music out there, you've got to learn to OPEN YOUR GOD DAMN MIND... sorry, overcome by random urge TO KILL YOU there... but seriously, open your mind. I agree, most music today leaves a lot to be desired BUT people listening to it doesn't make them shit-heads. It just makes them different. I'm 16, but I listen to almost everything out there, so I think I'm allowed to voice an opinion on this.

Symphonic metal is still lacking. The occult themes(which have become the inane babblings of a someone who doesn't even understand the basic tenents of Satanism) are beginning to become very trite. Real occult music starts with Black Widow(a British progressive rock band.)
A metal band, in fact. There is a fruitful overlap between prog and metal, but Black Widow were definitely on the metal side of that one.

On top of that ABBA came out of Europe, you have defiled music forever, just for producing them.
When America apologises for the Carpenters and the Chipmonks, maybe you can expect to have that sort of nonsense taken seriously.

Black Sabbath debuted in the late '60s, as did King Crimson and Jethro Tull.
A lot of progressive rock was horseshit: for every Amon Duul 2 or Van Der Graaf Generator there were a half dozen ghastly little joke bands like Yes or The Cockney Rebel.

Black Sabbath's debut album was in 1970, as was their most famous piece of work "Paranoid." As for Jethro Tull, I always consider Aqualung to be their debut, just a strange habit of mine.
Are you dissing Yes? Yes! sometimes had an odd sound, but for the most part they were a fine prog rock band.

Symphonic metal is still lacking. The occult themes(which have become the inane babblings of a someone who doesn't even understand the basic tenents of Satanism)

I agree - Satanism is for kids, the real old religions of Europe are where it's at. Hence the growing genre of pagan metal, a mixture of both traditional folk music and black metal together with lyrics concerning pre-kristjian mythology and spirituality. Other than the probably more well known fenno-scandinavian groups such as Finntroll or Moonsorrow in this grouping, a lot of great new bands in this genre are coming out of the former Soviet Union. Latvia's Skyforger are a superb example. There is still good music being made, you just have to know what to look for.

Man... you need to get out more. There's plenty of good music out there, you've got to learn to OPEN YOUR GOD DAMN MIND... sorry, overcome by random urge TO KILL YOU there... but seriously, open your mind. I agree, most music today leaves a lot to be desired BUT people listening to it doesn't make them shit-heads. It just makes them different. I'm 16, but I listen to almost everything out there, so I think I'm allowed to voice an opinion on this.

I have over 200 hours of music on my playlist, do I need to say more? And, no it doesn't make them different. If I were to take a corporolite and a vial of urine, then mix them together and eat them, I would be different, but I'd also be an idiot.
When songs repeat the chorus a dozen times, and have three verses throughout the entire number, that is not a work of art.

I have only heard the names, I am not a huge fan of metal myself. I love the originators: Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Cream. But I'm not fond of the genere itself.
I have heard Dimmu though, I did enjoy his song. I suppose I should go buy a CD of his.

Dimmu Borgir is a "they" not a "he," ;)

If you like them get the last album by a band called Emperor. The CD is called Prometheus: The Discipline of Fire and Demise. The music is very demanding to listen to. It really requires your full attention. The lyrics are pretty awesome, too.

You are absolutely right, but examine the lyrics of music today. Then compare that to "Revolver" or "Paranoid"(the albums.) Or "It's alright ma"( song by Bob Dylan), to Usher's "Yeah."
How can you even look at both of them as the same sort of thing. One of euphonious melody, the other is trash.

you're selectively picking things, though, and shall I say, comparing apples to oranges.

Why don't I compare the lyrics of 1960's The Monkees to today's Mason Jennings? The former being trite and the latter being incredible, of course.

Your argument has absolutely no merit or basis in fact so it's impossible to discuss without just prefacing everything with, "my opinion is . . . "

I agree - Satanism is for kids, the real old religions of Europe are where it's at. Hence the growing genre of pagan metal, a mixture of both traditional folk music and black metal together with lyrics concerning pre-kristjian mythology and spirituality. Other than the probably more well known fenno-scandinavian groups such as Finntroll or Moonsorrow in this grouping, a lot of great new bands in this genre are coming out of the former Soviet Union. Latvia's Skyforger are a superb example. There is still good music being made, you just have to know what to look for.

Well, what most people don't seem to understand is Satanism is not the worship of the Devil. Satanism is a philosophy, more than a religion. And yes, pagan rock is one of the few good things being produced nowadays.

you're selectively picking things, though, and shall I say, comparing apples to oranges.

Why don't I compare the lyrics of 1960's The Monkees to today's Mason Jennings? The former being trite and the latter being incredible, of course.

Your argument has absolutely no merit or basis in fact so it's impossible to discuss without just prefacing everything with, "my opinion is . . . "

You're right, I am. Now tell me, the Beatles wrote some pretty impressive pieces in the later parts of their career, and they enjoyed commercial sucess. Why can't complex music today, enjoy the same acclaim, in leiu of this constant bombardment of rap, pop, and pseudo-rock?

A metal band, in fact. There is a fruitful overlap between prog and metal, but Black Widow were definitely on the metal side of that one.


When America apologises for the Carpenters and the Chipmonks, maybe you can expect to have that sort of nonsense taken seriously.

Black Widow was not a metal band at all. If you listen to "Come to the Sabbat"(their first album). Their instrumentation is similair to likes of Jefferson Airplane, and some of the numbers are very hippie sounding.

Enslaved is a really good band of today. So is Type O Negative.

The best, by far, I still think is Emperor. But it's a matter of opinion. Borknagar is awesome as well.

I have over 200 hours of music on my playlist, do I need to say more? And, no it doesn't make them different. If I were to take a corporolite and a vial of urine, then mix them together and eat them, I would be different, but I'd also be an idiot.
When songs repeat the chorus a dozen times, and have three verses throughout the entire number, that is not a work of art.

Alright, let me give you a run down of the CD rack in front of me: Green Day, Audioslave, Rage Against the Machine, Metallica, Eric Clapton, Kill Bill Vol. I Soundtrack, Ronan Keating, Johnny Cash, Nirvana, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Queen, Eminem, and the list continues across wide swaths of music.

Of course you'd be an idiot. You are an idiot. You are sitting there thinking,'Oh yeah, anyone who listens to <insert name of someone you don't like in the music industry> is an idiot'... you, my friend, are closed-minded. People can like what they want... it's called freedom of expression. You are entitled to say that you think that a particular genre isn't great, and that's fine. But saying everyone who listens to that type of music is a 'shithead', as you so eloquently put it, is being stupid, sterotypical, and, quite honestly, a shithead yourself.

You're right, I am. Now tell me, the Beatles wrote some pretty impressive pieces in the later parts of their career, and they enjoyed commercial sucess. Why can't complex music today, enjoy the same acclaim, in leiu of this constant bombardment of rap, pop, and pseudo-rock?
Because you're asking a hell of a lot of people to pull their heads out of their asses, where they seem to be permanently lodged.

Enslaved is a really good band of today. So is Type O Negative.

The best, by far, I still think is Emperor. But it's a matter of opinion. Borknagar is awesome as well.

I'll remember those names ;)

Black Sabbath's debut album was in 1970, as was their most famous piece of work "Paranoid." As for Jethro Tull, I always consider Aqualung to be their debut, just a strange habit of mine.
Are you dissing Yes? Yes! sometimes had an odd sound, but for the most part they were a fine prog rock band.
Black Sabbath formed in 1967. You were talking about the formation of bands, not the release dates on records. I also don't see what they had to do with prog rock, apart from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
Bloody right I'm dissing Yes. They were truly appalling. High flown claims of intellectual superiority over lumpen pop music don't hold a lot of water when your test case for them ends up with one of the Buggles as its lead singer.
I mean prog did a lot better than that. (You're a lot better off with King Crimson.) Have you heard any Amon Duul 2 or Van Der Graaf Generator? How about Quatermass?

Because you're asking a hell of a lot of people to pull their heads out of their asses, where they seem to be permanently lodged.

Hahaha
This statement is very true, although I am not asking anything. I am just venting my rage against all the foul, idiotic music there is floating around.

You are absolutely right, but examine the lyrics of music today. Then compare that to "Revolver" or "Paranoid"(the albums.) Or "It's alright ma"( song by Bob Dylan), to Usher's "Yeah."
How can you even look at both of them as the same sort of thing. One of euphonious melody, the other is trash.
Usher is forgettable. Do you really think that there was no shitty forgettable music in the 1960s? We will remember the good stuff from today.

Black Sabbath formed in 1967. You were talking about the formation of bands, not the release dates on records. I also don't see what they had to do with prog rock, apart from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
Bloody right I'm dissing Yes. They were truly appalling. High flown claims of intellectual superiority over lumpen pop music don't hold a lot of water when your test case for them ends up with one of the Buggles as its lead singer.
I mean prog did a lot better than that. (You're a lot better off with King Crimson.) Have you heard any Amon Duul 2 or Van Der Graaf Generator? How about Quatermass?

Listened to Amon Duul, but not the other two. I only listed Sabbath becuase many of the forumites here seem to like metal(and they were the inventors)

Black Widow was not a metal band at all. If you listen to "Come to the Sabbat"(their first album). Their instrumentation is similair to likes of Jefferson Airplane, and some of the numbers are very hippie sounding.
And most Sabbath albums have Ozzy whining his way through some ghastly ballad like a man straining to piss out a gallstone...

You're right, I am. Now tell me, the Beatles wrote some pretty impressive pieces in the later parts of their career, and they enjoyed commercial sucess. Why can't complex music today, enjoy the same acclaim, in leiu of this constant bombardment of rap, pop, and pseudo-rock?

Well, I don't think any band will ever top the beatles in terms of popularity. And I agree that they were amazing -- but I think there are plenty of bands today who do deserve their commercial success and popularity. U2, Radiohead, and Sigur Ros for example (of course Sigur Ros is not as popular as the first two, but still has managed to sell hundreds of thousands of albums in the US and sell out every concert).

And most Sabbath albums have Ozzy whining his way through some ghastly ballad like a man straining to piss out a gallstone...

Alright, don't confuse Black Widow with Black Sabbath. People did that a lot, this is what I have to say to you. At least Ozzy's voice was unique, not like the "ideal voice" epitomized by Green Day.

Just a quick question -- am I to assume that you're single-handedly slamming all contemporary music, or is the statement of crappy lyrics meant to suggest that you're just against songs with words? Because I was immediately going to ask if you'd heard Sigur Ros (though, from the other things that were brought up, I'm guessing they're not exactly the genre that most of you'd go for), which I find mostly mind-blowing. AT the very least, I think most everybody I know who I've persuaded to listen to it has rated it far above "mediocre", even if they're generally not into that kind of music.

Just something to think about, I suppose. The new album, Takk, is a total delight the whole way through, and apparently the first album of the band that they've spoken their native language (Icelandic) rather than the language the lead singer made up (a sure way to see that you never get caught in the temptation of writing easy, vapid lyrics).

Listened to Amon Duul, but not the other two. I only listed Sabbath becuase many of the forumites here seem to like metal(and they were the inventors)
They weren't, in fact. Led Zeppelin were doing this stuff long before Sabbath appeared. I've even heard Jimmi Hendrix mentioned in connection with this.

All the way brother.

CREED FOREVER!

You're right, I am. Now tell me, the Beatles wrote some pretty impressive pieces in the later parts of their career, and they enjoyed commercial sucess. Why can't complex music today, enjoy the same acclaim, in leiu of this constant bombardment of rap, pop, and pseudo-rock?
I hate to say it, but there is almost no rock that can truly be considered complex music. Four, five parts max (except symhonic rock), as compared to 15-20 in a Big band jazz, and occasionally upwards of 40-50 in Romantic era music. There is some rock that is complex in comparision to other rock(and yes, most of it is older), but very little that truly qualifies as complex music. JMHO.

Also, I belive almost all music has it's place. My play list is wicked huge and contains everything from grogorian chants, to Good Charrolette, to all 9 )and a half) of Beethoven's symphonies. The three styles that have the least on there are probably Country, Rap, and Barouqe, in that order. My favorites? Big band Jazz (don't have nearly enough), Classic rock (as a very broad category, have loads, want more), and Romantic-Modern Classical (Woot)

Alright, don't confuse Black Widow with Black Sabbath. People did that a lot, this is what I have to say to you. At least Ozzy's voice was unique, not like the "ideal voice" epitomized by Green Day.
I wasn't. Just pointing out that a few crap Jefferson Airplane pastiches do not disqualify Black Widow as metal.

They weren't, in fact. Led Zeppelin were doing this stuff long before Sabbath appeared. I've even heard Jimmi Hendrix mentioned in connection with this.
Sabbath was doing stuff long before they were known as Sabbath, and realesing big name albums. My father used to write his own magazine on rock, and still is a nationally syndicated columist. After much research his opinion on the inventors of metal as we know it (I agree with his opionins on this one) Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and Led Zeppelin (even though I despise the third band, I will give them credit where it is due).

They weren't, in fact. Led Zeppelin were doing this stuff long before Sabbath appeared. I've even heard Jimmi Hendrix mentioned in connection with this.

Cream, Hendrix, Deep Purple, and Zeppelin(Hendrix is slightly overrated and martyrized becuase of his early death.) Were all early influences on metal.

what the fuck is emo, anyway? Long Live Led Zeppelin!

Music today is shit? Lyrics are drab? Psshaw! Listen to something other than radio, please! I'm not going to name some band I'm sure most of you haven't heard of (Liquid Tension Experiment) to prove to you that music today is still excellent, or a song that has absolutely beautiful lyrics("And Then There Was Silence" by Blind Guardian) because that would sound biased.

Cream, Hendrix, Deep Purple, and Zeppelin(Hendrix is slightly overrated and martyrized becuase of his early death.) Were all early influences on metal.

Hendrix isn't overrated, but I agree that his early death was certainley a cause of his still immense popularity.

I hate to say it, but there is almost no rock that can truly be considered complex music. Four, five parts max (except symhonic rock), as compared to 15-20 in a Big band jazz, and occasionally upwards of 40-50 in Romantic era music. There is some rock that is complex in comparision to other rock(and yes, most of it is older), but very little that truly qualifies as complex music. JMHO.

Also, I belive almost all music has it's place. My play list is wicked huge and contains everything from grogorian chants, to Good Charrolette, to all 9 )and a half) of Beethoven's symphonies. The three styles that have the least on there are probably Country, Rap, and Barouqe, in that order. My favorites? Big band Jazz (don't have nearly enough), Classic rock (as a very broad category, have loads, want more), and Romantic-Modern Classical (Woot)
King Crimson did a lot of odd time signatures, though.

what the fuck is emo, anyway? Long Live Led Zeppelin!
Muse and stuff like that... that's emo.

All the way brother.

CREED FOREVER!

Creedence Clearwater Revival is another nice group, although some of their songs are painfully simple.

No, I am bashing modern American music. I am not entirely sure what the scene is like over in Europe, but from what I have seen and read, I am asssuming it is about the same.
Look at Dylan's "Jokerman." Bibilical allusions, allegory, metaphors, it is beautiful. The same goes for Thick as a Brick. Then look at any rap song, or any song by Greenday or My chemical Romance.

Music today is shit? Lyrics are drab? Psshaw! Listen to something other than radio, please! I'm not going to name some band I'm sure most of you haven't heard of (Liquid Tension Experiment) to prove to you that music today is still excellent, or a song that has absolutely beautiful lyrics("And Then There Was Silence" by Blind Guardian) because that would sound biased.
Yay for Liquid Tension.

Alright, don't confuse Black Widow with Black Sabbath. People did that a lot, this is what I have to say to you. At least Ozzy's voice was unique, not like the "ideal voice" epitomized by Green Day.

I actually think "Black Sabbath" sounds much darker (and perhaps better) as covered by Type O Negative.

I mean, I'm not dissing Black Sabbath, they're one of my favorite bands, but Ozzy's vocals were not the best, though they were certainly unique and in most cases enjoyable (in my opinion). I was always much more into the instruments of Black Sabbath than the vocals, but that's how I am with most bands.

How can you say that, when we have groups like Portishead, Massive Attack, Garbage, Deftones and Nightwish? :mad:

Mike Jones!

No, I am bashing modern American music. I am not entirely sure what the scene is like over in Europe, but from what I have seen and read, I am asssuming it is about the same.
Look at Dylan's "Jokerman." Bibilical allusions, allegory, metaphors, it is beautiful. The same goes for Thick as a Brick. Then look at any rap song, or any song by Greenday or My chemical Romance.
Sorry, but have you heard 'When September Ends' by Green Day? Sure, not qutie up to scratch of the greats like Dylan, but still a damn fine song.

Hendrix isn't overrated, but I agree that his early death was certainley a cause of his still immense popularity.
I'm more inclined to think that it's because the stuff he recorded was so astonishing (some of it is alarming now: what the hell did people make of it back then?). Whatever his faults were, he was a long way from being the Lisa Minelli impersonator out of the Manic Street Preachers of Jeff Buckley.

Branin: I'd forgotten about Deep Purple, but they have a better claim than Sabbath, you're right.

You folks obviously spend way too much time, effort, and emotional energy contemplating and reading meaning, depth, and importance into modern music as a whole.

The majority of people alive at any given time are possessed of no more than average intelligence, wit, wisdom, depth, or spiritual profundity... Thus, naturally, the music that is most popular at any given time is most likely to cater to... Shall we say... Less than the most ideal qualities of human sensibility.

Of course some artists in any given genre will be more skilled, more dedicated, more original, or inspired by more substantial stuff than will be others. Social trends being what they are and have been, those few will be less successful than many of those who cater to a more broad appetite. Such is life.

If we examine their work... Study their meaning or absorb their beauty, discuss their methods and learn what small lessons we can from them, that is one thing...

But there isn't a much more meaningless way to firmly establish oneself as the insignificant spectator than to start off with vulgar, strident protestations as to the comparative superiority in terms of artistry, originality, soul, beauty, and (especially) meaning of a bunch of stupid bands.

It's like a buch of ants arguing over which spider is the supreme being of the universe. You stand barely one step above those mental midgets who spend hours arguing over which well paid stranger is a better and more noble human being based on how well he plays some stupid game.

No, I am bashing modern American music. I am not entirely sure what the scene is like over in Europe, but from what I have seen and read, I am asssuming it is about the same.
Look at Dylan's "Jokerman." Bibilical allusions, allegory, metaphors, it is beautiful. The same goes for Thick as a Brick. Then look at any rap song, or any song by Greenday or My chemical Romance.
Jokerman was recorded in the late '80s. You're talking up Kylie Minogue and Bros, there.

Sorry, but have you heard 'When September Ends' by Green Day? Sure, not qutie up to scratch of the greats like Dylan, but still a damn fine song.

Yeah, I listened to it. And I kept begging God for the bloody chorus to end, and for that wretched generic voice to stop.

G. Love and Special Sauce will rock your socks. Awesome, melodious lyics/vocal, big standing bass, and a harmonica on a rack. You can't go wrong. But yes, most MAINSTREAM music blows the big one.

I'm more inclined to think that it's because the stuff he recorded was so astonishing (some of it is alarming now: what the hell did people make of it back then?). Whatever his faults were, he was a long way from being the Lisa Minelli impersonator out of the Manic Street Preachers of Jeff Buckley.

Branin: I'd forgotten about Deep Purple, but they have a better claim than Sabbath, you're right.

Another great guitarist who is often overlooked - Joe Satriani. The man is a guitar genius...

Hendrix isn't overrated, but I agree that his early death was certainley a cause of his still immense popularity.

I love Hendrix, but the only reason why people still like him today is becuase he was martyized by an early death.

Yeah, I listened to it. And I kept begging God for the bloody chorus to end, and for that wretched generic voice to stop.

The voice is generic, but it's not so much the way in which it's sung as the message behind it. That's the beauty of music... it can say what you want it to say, if you look at it right.

Music from today:
Scotland: Arab Strap and Belle and Sebastian (among others)
England: The Futureheads, Tricky, Fatboy Slim, The Fall
United States: Wilco (there are certainly others, I just can't think of them at the moment)

I love Hendrix, but the only reason why people still like him today is becuase he was martyized by an early death.

...I just said that, right?

Another great guitarist who is often overlooked - Joe Satriani. The man is a guitar genius...

They're plenty of people like that. Incredible musicians, but completly unknown.

Mike Jones' "Back Then" video

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2670554?htv=12

The voice is generic, but it's not so much the way in which it's sung as the message behind it. That's the beauty of music... it can say what you want it to say, if you look at it right.

Anything can be made to sound a certain way! Charles Manson thought "Helter Skelter" was a message for race war. Any song can be interpeted in a certain way, that does not make it special or unique.

For incredible over looked people, look at the G3 tour. Joe Sattrani, John Pettrucci, and Steve Vai, all on tour, together. (and on the other side of the continent from me :( )

i hae those dang people! them and thier music!
:( :mp5:

Anything can be made to sound a certain way! Charles Manson thought "Helter Skelter" was a message for race war. Any song can be interpeted in a certain way, that does not make it special or unique.
I never said it did! Quit blowing things out of context, it's a very bad habit. I'm just saying, that whilst it's not on par with the greats, it's still a good song. Sure, it's not unique, but it's a damn sight better than something like Usher or 'Fiddy'... whatever that means (btw, I do know, I'm just taking the piss)

I'm more inclined to think that it's because the stuff he recorded was so astonishing (some of it is alarming now: what the hell did people make of it back then?). Whatever his faults were, he was a long way from being the Lisa Minelli impersonator out of the Manic Street Preachers of Jeff Buckley.

Branin: I'd forgotten about Deep Purple, but they have a better claim than Sabbath, you're right.

As being skilled musicians or inventing metal? As far as being better musicians, I couldn't say. I don't listen to Deep Purple much because in a lot of what I've heard by them, the lyrics are not especially good and the music isn't quite what I like. But when it comes to 'inventing' heavy metal, I'd say that no one has as good a claim as Black Sabbath.

Muse and stuff like that... that's emo.


Who the hell is Muse?

MESA MUSIC CRITIC
MESA JAR JAR BINKS!!!
http://musicalcritic.blogspot.com/

Who the hell is Muse?

Feed your dog prune juice, wait about an hour. Then you will see Muse in its true form.

As being skilled musicians or inventing metal? As far as being better musicians, I couldn't say. I don't listen to Deep Purple much because in a lot of what I've heard by them, the lyrics are not especially good and the music isn't quite what I like. But when it comes to 'inventing' heavy metal, I'd say that no one has as good a claim as Black Sabbath.
Inventing metal. These are the guys who did Smoke On The Water, after all.

Look, there's bad music in every decade.

We had horrible Rockabilly back in the 1950's, what I call "ShitPop" in the 1960's, brain-melting Disco in the 1970's, ear-busting Hair "Metal" in the 1980's (don't forget a lot of the bad Synth Pop), infinitely stupid "Alternative" Rock in the 1990's, and now we have Emo.

Don't forget the good stuff, which heavily out-weighs the bad: The original Rock 'n' Roll in the 1950's, Psychedelic Rock in the 1960's (not to mention Black Sabbath and Deep Purple), Punk Rock in the 1970's, Hardcore Punk Rock and Metal in the 1980's, a revival of melodic Rock in the 1990's, and a resurgeance of the underground in this decade.

When we reach 2010, look back and reflect. The good will outweigh the bad, even if most of the good stuff isn't very well-known.

Actually the term "heavy metal" itself comes from the lyrics of "Born to be Wild" by Steppenwolf, considered by many to be the first heavy metal band.

What gets me about today's music scene is that great new music from "classic" artists hardly ever gets played on radio unless there's some kind of gimmic going on. I can think of several of those kinds of songs that would be well-known if radio were anything like it was when I was growing up, but they don't even get heard very often these days unless you happen to run into people who happen to be a fan of a particular group and they play that music.

Inventing metal. These are the guys who did Smoke On The Water, after all.

Yeah, but Black Sabbath did the song of the same name, and The Wizard, and Children of the Grave, and such. Black Sabbath was a metal band, whereas Deep Purple was a hard rock band that played metallish stuff sometimes.

What gets me about today's music scene is that great new music from "classic" artists hardly ever gets played on radio unless there's some kind of gimmic going on. I can think of several of those kinds of songs that would be well-known if radio were anything like it was when I was growing up, but they don't even get heard very often these days unless you happen to run into people who happen to be a fan of a particular group and they play that music.

It doesn't just "happen". The payola scheme... Ugh.

Basically, radio stations get paid shitloads of money by the big record companies to play their Shit (note the capital 'P') on their stations. This knocks out the really good bands in favor of the shitty bands, simply because they have a bigger market. Just look at Good Charlotte...

Look, there's bad music in every decade.

We had horrible Rockabilly back in the 1950's, what I call "ShitPop" in the 1960's, brain-melting Disco in the 1970's, ear-busting Hair "Metal" in the 1980's (don't forget a lot of the bad Synth Pop), infinitely stupid "Alternative" Rock in the 1990's, and now we have Emo.

Don't forget the good stuff, which heavily out-weighs the bad: The original Rock 'n' Roll in the 1950's, Psychedelic Rock in the 1960's (not to mention Black Sabbath and Deep Purple), Punk Rock in the 1970's, Hardcore Punk Rock and Metal in the 1980's, a revival of melodic Rock in the 1990's, and a resurgeance of the underground in this decade.

When we reach 2010, look back and reflect. The good will outweigh the bad, even if most of the good stuff isn't very well-known.
You're missing the point: Musicea wishes to argue that all pop music (apart from a couple of shitty prog bands he happens to like) is worthless shit.
He certainly won't allow any facts to stand in his way.

Inventing metal. These are the guys who did Smoke On The Water, after all.

Yeah, but Black Sabbath did the song of the same name, and The Wizard, and Children of the Grave, and such. Black Sabbath was a metal band, whereas Deep Purple was a hard rock band that played metallish stuff sometimes. Also, Black Sabbath was way darker, which to me, is pretty fundamental to metal.

Yeah, but Black Sabbath did the song of the same name, and The Wizard, and Children of the Grave, and such. Black Sabbath was a metal band, whereas Deep Purple was a hard rock band that played metallish stuff sometimes.
As are most metal bands who are any good. I'd sooner Alice Cooper's '70s stuff to Venom, put it that way.

You're missing the point: Musicea wishes to argue that all pop music (apart from a couple of shitty prog bands he happens to like) is worthless shit.
He certainly won't allow any facts to stand in his way.

People like that are funny, really. They just toss aside the fact that all great music, be it mainstream or underground, has been derived from Pop melodies.

And Pop in itself isn't bad, so long as it's good. Heh, that always sounds strange...

Well, I haven't read all this thread, because quite frankly I can't be bothered. But unless you can define some objective criteria by which the shittiness of music can measured, then we'll just have a lot of people giving their subjective judgments about it all, and subjective is subjective. You might think its shit, others might think its worse than that or maybe sounds of the gods. Either way its just opinions that can't be argued with.

The lyrics are shallow, especially compared to bands like Jethro Tull or Yes! The instrumentation is primitive, and the people listening to it are SHITHEADS.
Yes, for those Greenday and emo-rock fans, this is a big fuck you to all of you.

Music is subjective, as is most art. It can be debated only to an extent. I personally am a fan of Coldplay, Athlete and the Editors of late. People can say that they are not as artisitcly good as bands, but its impossible to prove certianly. There are certian genere's that are distasteful (RnB the prime example) but few that can be objectively said to be rubbish

Well, I haven't read all this thread, because quite frankly I can't be bothered. But unless you can define some objective criteria by which the shittiness of music can measured, then we'll just have a lot of people giving their subjective judgments about it all, and subjective is subjective. You might think its shit, others might think its worse than that or maybe sounds of the gods. Either way its just opinions that can't be argued with.
A healthy and mature attitude, that does you great credit.
It isn't as much fun as a row, though...

Deep Purple was a hard rock band that played metallish stuff sometimes.The same is true of Led Zeppelin.

I have over 200 hours of music on my playlist, do I need to say more? And, no it doesn't make them different. If I were to take a corporolite and a vial of urine, then mix them together and eat them, I would be different, but I'd also be an idiot.
When songs repeat the chorus a dozen times, and have three verses throughout the entire number, that is not a work of art.
wow...okay...we'll start with the chorus verse thing. A major classical form is the rondeau (lowercase letters=same music, different words) ABaAabAB. Just because something repetes a theme does not make it shit. Observe Beethovens 5th, where the same basic theme (short short short long) of the horns is echoed not only in the first movement, but throughout four movements within different bass lines and mirrored in different themes and modes. And lets face it, the original theme is not complex or particularly original. The entire first movement simply revolves around 2 notes modulated several times. Just because something is simplistic or repetitive does not make it bad.

Your definition of "art" is very closed. Is a can of soup art? According to Andy Warhol it is. Schoenberg and Stravinsky all nearly had people walk out of their concerts because what they wrote was not "music" according to the people of the age. Yet these are some of the most important masters of classical work. So you have 200 hours of music on your playlist. I have about the same, have listened to all of it, and it ranges from gregorian chants and the assorted styles lumped into classical right up to classic rock and the many divisions of rock there are today. You could easily have 200 hours of music, and STILL be very closed about what is music

over the past, say. six months?, i've heard six to seven remakes. not all of them okay or even decent. and don't even get me started on that akon SOB, completely ruined mr. lonely, and jimmy buffet should kill him for what he did to margaritaville. and even 'original' songs seem like crap. that's why i generally listen to the 'classic' rock and oldies radio stations. love songs are generally about desperation for boinking and such, and not about love. bnands like greend day get all politicla, which makes me hate them even more. i especially hate the video to that 'september' song. the acting part in the middle is stupid and serves no purpose, andi n the end they glorify cowardice. i'm sorry, but if your buddy is dying, and you cower and think only of yourself, you're not a good person in my book.

over the past, say. six months?, i've heard six to seven remakes. not all of them okay or even decent. and don't even get me started on that akon SOB, completely ruined mr. lonely, and jimmy buffet should kill him for what he did to margaritaville. and even 'original' songs seem like crap. that's why i generally listen to the 'classic' rock and oldies radio stations. love songs are generally about desperation for boinking and such, and not about love. bnands like greend day get all politicla, which makes me hate them even more. i especially hate the video to that 'september' song. the acting part in the middle is stupid and serves no purpose, andi n the end they glorify cowardice. i'm sorry, but if your buddy is dying, and you cower and think only of yourself, you're not a good person in my book.

Jimmmy Buffet is nice, relaxing music. Do you suppose you could learn some proper puncation and capitalization, so I don't feel like killing myself after reading your post?

Your definition of "art" is very closed. Is a can of soup art? According to Andy Warhol it is. Schoenberg and Stravinsky all nearly had people walk out of their concerts because what they wrote was not "music" according to the people of the age. Yet these are some of the most important masters of classical work. So you have 200 hours of music on your playlist. I have about the same, have listened to all of it, and it ranges from gregorian chants and the assorted styles lumped into classical right up to classic rock and the many divisions of rock there are today. You could easily have 200 hours of music, and STILL be very closed about what is music

What if I had 500 hours? :)

My playlist usually includes...

PINK FLOYD--The Wall/Dark Side of the Moon
GREEN DAY--American Idiot
ALAN PARSONS PROJECT--Any of it
FRANZ FERDINAND--For shits & giggles
TOSHIO MASUDA--Hyperness!
THE KAISER CHIEFS--Employment
80's MUSIC--For the workout
THE SCISSOR SISTERS--When I get really bored
EUROSHIT--To feel good

Yup.

Dude you are right. Music nowadays is pathetic there are no bands or artists that stand out above the rest, there is no energy left in rock, and roll. My type of rock and roll is gone. A time when The Sex Pistols meant something to someone they were loud, brash, obnoxious, angry, talentless, but somehow they made good music with a message that rallied the youth in the U.K. and changed something, not like the so called punk bands nowadays that only use politics so they can get back to being an A-list band, yes I am calling out you Greenday...

My playlist usually includes...

PINK FLOYD--The Wall/Dark Side of the Moon
GREEN DAY--American Idiot
ALAN PARSONS PROJECT--Any of it
FRANZ FERDINAND--For shits & giggles
TOSHIO MASUDA--Hyperness!
THE KAISER CHIEFS--Employment
80's MUSIC--For the workout
THE SCISSOR SISTERS--When I get really bored
EUROSHIT--To feel good

Yup.

Hmmm, only one that is any good is Pink Floyd. The Kaiser Chiefs are tolerable, and the rest I've never listened to.

Hmmm, only one that is any good is Pink Floyd. The Kaiser Chiefs are tolerable, and the rest I've never listened to.

Well, Pink Floyd is the best. That's why it's at the top, though the order really besides that is unintentional at best.


Dude you are right. Music nowadays is pathetic there are no bands or artists that stand out above the rest, there is no energy left in rock, and roll. My type of rock and roll is gone. A time when The Sex Pistols meant something to someone they were loud, brash, obnoxious, angry, talentless, but somehow they made good music with a message that rallied the youth in the U.K. and changed something, not like the so called punk bands nowadays that only use politics so they can get back to being an A-list band, yes I am calling out you Greenday...


Listen to their album, dipshit. It's good. American Idiot and a few singles is probably all you've heard, from what I can tell. And those are the worst. There are several long tracks that are like rock operas: there's a whole bunch of smaller songs that tell a story. The whole album tells a story. You can't judge it based on what you've heard on the radio. The sum of its tracks is much greater than what you can grasp based on the crap they play on Top 40 radio that is Green Day's hits.

*sigh* Yes, the corporate music machine is pumping out crap right now. Is that all that different from usual? The best music came from the pioneers on ground level and moved up. If you want good music by modern groups don't buy albums produced by major labels, go to ground and look at local music and independant (no... Not 'indie' just bands that don't sell(out) through major labels)music, rather than watching the crap that floats to the surface.

And... Prog-rock could be the dullest music I've ever listened to (after suffering through all of "In The Hall of the Crimson King" I've sworn off of it forever).

And... Prog-rock could be the dullest music I've ever listened to (after suffering through all of "In The Hall of the Crimson King" I've sworn off of it forever).

Some of it is really, really, great, and you will listen to it until somebody else smashes the CD. Some of it is, yes, sucky and/or boring. It's that way with any genre, except maybe rap (for me anyway). Hip-hop, rap, and R&B I cannot tolerate. It's okay if I'm out dancing or something, and there IS no other option, but I don't have any of it here at my house because I just don't like it.

Jimmmy Buffet is nice, relaxing music. Do you suppose you could learn some proper puncation and capitalization, so I don't feel like killing myself after reading your post?

soorie, aye wuz beaing lazee, sew ae didnt really notice wat aye wuz doing.

ps. I was saying nice things about Mr. Buffet. Did you just mean to insult my grammatical errors, or did you feel I was insulting him instead?

Be well, and may our next meeting be even more fortuitous!

I agree. Most music today is shit. However there is enough good out there for me to continue to listen.

Personal Favs:
Ozzy Osbourne- One of the last of the greats IMO.
The Offspring- Great music. That's it. Catchy songs. Good vocals.
Mudvayne- I just like the vocals and the guitar sounds.
Avenged Sevenfold- Dual guitar band. 'nuff said.
Trivium- I listened to these guys once and my head exploded it was so friggin great.

Children of Bodom- See above.

Slayer- Aging, but still badass.
Audioslave- Members from two bands that have left their mark permanently.
Slipknot- Heavy ass nu-metal.

Basically today's music is shitty compared to the music of old. However most of the people that I've seen on here are old (in comparison to me.) Believe me...most of your parents thought the same thing...Hell, my grandparents thought Led Zeppelin was literally Satan possessing four guys.

Whenever I turn on the radio, I cringe. It makes me stick to my computer library.

Bands I like:
Led Zeppelin
Hendrix
Grateful Dead
The Band
Cream/Clapton by himself
Steppenwolf
The Who
The Beatles (later in their career)
Sublime
The Stones
Fleetwood Mac

It's all rap music today. Rap music sucks. There is so many rappers. It seems like they just pull black people from the streets and tell them to rap.

It's all rap music today. Rap music sucks. There is so many rappers. It seems like they just pull black people from the streets and tell them to rap.

It doesn't seem like that, that's how it is. :(

It doesn't seem like that, that's how it is. :(

I remember you. Your that very hot chick from North Dakota, that likes Japenese animi. You told us your problems once. They were interesting.

I remember you. Your that very hot chick from North Dakota, that likes Japenese animi. You told us your problems once. They were interesting.

Oh? I think you're maybe talking about me, but I don't think my problems are very interesting.

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=535

You should listen to Muse. They rawk.

hahaha.. muse.. listen to some Rufio or anything in the electronic genre

As are most metal bands who are any good. I'd sooner Alice Cooper's '70s stuff to Venom, put it that way.

Yeah, but Venom is just lame. I don't know why a lot of the early black metal bands liked their stuff so much, but then again, early black metal, aside from a couple bands, isn't too great either.

The same is true of Led Zeppelin.

Yes. Neither was a metal band. Black Sabbath was. Led Zeppelin (I actually do love this band, except for the vocals) and Deep Purple contributed, but Black Sabbath's song of the same name, in my opinion, was the first real heavy metal song. Also, Black Sabbath had a much bigger influence on the heavy metal bands that followed. The good ones, anyway (excluding the crappy glam rock/hair metal bands like Poison, etc.).

Anyway, all music is, ultimately, a matter of opinion/taste.

Go Therion, champions of grandeur and harmonious blending of orchestra and metal.
Go Dimmu Borgir, neo-Wagner inverted glory merchants.
Go Nightwish… make me so sad…

I hate that song "Smile Like You Mean It". Give me "Ginnungagap" or "Ghost Love Score".

So yeah, I mostly agree with the OP's violent sentiment. :)

Therion is nice, the rest is brainless too me, especially Wightwish. It's just a load of melodies put together without thinking if they'd match each other, Tarja sings like a swine and the structures are disasterous.

But to the topic starter, it depends what music you are refering to, yes popmusic is shitty noways with the exception of a few.[t.A.T.u., Queen.] But that's why it's popmusic in the first place, it's a psychologic fact I dare to say that popmusic is average music, it's aways the more simple music that becomes popular.

I think personally music is on it's way to becoming great again, after the invention of Rock & Roll, music became cheap, it was no longer quality that was important but chatchyness.

But in the late 90's of the last century some new music genres emerged which have an enourmous potential, some of those genres even go past most classical music if it comes to the complexity and depth of the melodies.

Music is to me now in it's best it has been in a century.

The whole term of 'Classical is heavy music, all other music is light.' Well needs to redefined there are a lot of genres today that have far more depth than that commercial light Mozart everyone thinking the createst composer ever.

I like classical by the way, just not Mozart/Bach/Beethoven.. commercial crap.

i have to say music today is the best it has been for years, yes there is loads of purely commercial crap like that stupid frog, but if you look far enough in you will find some purely great bands.

The thread creator needs to discover stoner rock.

:cool:

American music might suck, but European music, especially (symphonic) metal, seems to be flourishing.

Also New Zealand rock is going through a time of awesomnity

Music is subjective, as is most art. It can be debated only to an extent. There are certian genere's that are distasteful (RnB the prime example) but few that can be objectively said to be rubbish

I agree.

The thread creator needs to discover stoner rock.

:cool:

A lot of people do, for that matter...

Also New Zealand rock is going through a time of awesomnity

Agreed.

We had horrible Rockabilly back in the 1950's,...

Don't forget the good stuff, which heavily out-weighs the bad: The original Rock 'n' Roll in the 1950's...

Huh? Rockabilly was the original rock'n'roll (just played by white kids though). Why is one horrible ad the other the 'good stuff'?

Yeah, but Black Sabbath did the song of the same name, and The Wizard, and Children of the Grave, and such. Black Sabbath was a metal band, whereas Deep Purple was a hard rock band that played metallish stuff sometimes. Also, Black Sabbath was way darker, which to me, is pretty fundamental to metal.

Ho come nobody has mentioned Coven yet with their 1969 Witchcraft - Destroys Minds And Reaps Souls LP? Almost certainly the first Satanist LP... heck, track one, side one was even called 'Black Sabbath'...

Ho come nobody has mentioned Coven yet with their 1969 Witchcraft - Destroys Minds And Reaps Souls LP? Almost certainly the first Satanist LP... heck, track one, side one was even called 'Black Sabbath'...


Thats becuase Coven, while interesting, never really achieved the success and respect that Sabbath earned.
Frankly, thats because Sabbath, were simply better musicians that any member of Coven.

I'd also like to point out, that anyone who actually thinks Sabbath's lyrics were "satanic", never really paid attention to them.
A song might discuss death and despair or the supernatural , but ultimately, most of them had positive endings.

An example of this would be the song "Into the Void", off the album "Master of Reality."
The song is about abandoning earth after the apocalypse, and finding a new planet to make into a parasdise.

"Make a home where love is there to stay, peace and happiness in every way."

Or "Electric Funeral", of their second album "Paranoid".

"Supernatural being, takes Earth under its wing. Heaven's golden chorus sings, Hell's angels flap thier wings."

Thats becuase Coven, while interesting, never really achieved the success and respect that Sabbath earned.
Frankly, thats because Sabbath, were simply better musicians that any member of Coven.

Agreed, but any discussion which touches on claims to 'the earliest satanist LP' is incomplete without a mention of them. Now, however, it is easy to say that they were merely using the imagery of horror movies and novels as a selling point, rather than being real satanists, but in fact the tradition of Hammer horror and Denis Wheatley has a much better claim to being 'real' Satanism than LaVey and his banal cronies.

Agreed, but any discussion which touches on claims to 'the earliest satanist LP' is incomplete without a mention of them.

Agreed.
My explantion only serves to show why they get overlooked.



Now, however, it is easy to say that they were merely using the imagery of horror movies and novels as a selling point, rather than being real satanists, but in fact the tradition of Hammer horror and Denis Wheatley has a much better claim to being 'real' Satanism than LaVey and his banal cronies.

Again agreed.
Even LeVey would tell you that the only reason he called his church what he did, was because of the notoriety that came with it.

The thread creator needs to discover stoner rock.

:cool:

I have, although I am still slightly confused on what is categorized as "stoner rock."

Thats becuase Coven, while interesting, never really achieved the success and respect that Sabbath earned.
Frankly, thats because Sabbath, were simply better musicians that any member of Coven.

I'd also like to point out, that anyone who actually thinks Sabbath's lyrics were "satanic", never really paid attention to them.
A song might discuss death and despair or the supernatural , but ultimately, most of them had positive endings.

An example of this would be the song "Into the Void", off the album "Master of Reality."
The song is about abandoning earth after the apocalypse, and finding a new planet to make into a parasdise.

"Make a home where love is there to stay, peace and happiness in every way."

Or "Electric Funeral", of their second album "Paranoid".

"Supernatural being, takes Earth under its wing. Heaven's golden chorus sings, Hell's angels flap thier wings."

If you ever listened to their debut album, you would think otherwise. NIB, one of my all time favorites, contains the line "my name is lucifer, please take my hand."
After their first album, they wrote about more progressive themes.

:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:
Its all about da Kano, Lady SOV, and London grime scene, fuck all your black metal shit especially the freaks into nightwish

:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:
Its all about da Kano, Lady SOV, and London grime scene, fuck all your black metal shit especially the freaks into nightwish

And it's all about learning to put sentences together, so they are understandable. Black metal isn't anything special, doom metal sometimes is deeper than the rest of the generes though.

I skipped most of this thread as I knew exactly how it would go. People's perception of depth is entirely subjective. For some, a few spooky references to Poe is really profound. I don't think anyone is debating whether Nelly is a philosophic wonder or not, but I personally find nearly all the majority of music is lyrically lacking in any depth. That's not necessarily to it's detriment however, I rather enjoy Iron Maiden despite their rather shallow and unconvincing occult and mythological reference points, they're simply good fun, and so, for that matter, are Aha.

However if we are going to talk about depth in lyrics, mock satanism and occult is the 70's equivalent of today's wannabe gangsta's, though with slighty less credibility as there isn't really a devil and there is really a South Central and a large number of caps to insert in someone's gluteus maximus. It's just people trying to be scary and weird (well not weird in the gangsta example obviously).

I think that genuine gangsta rap has a great deal to say about the society in which it is bred, and that is surely the only relevance of profundity. I am not overly fond of it's sound and don't like it, but that is not to say it is all to be labelled blankly as dross. I am a great fan of Billy Bragg and The The, both of whom say a great deal about living in England in the 80's.

Don't forget that being profound and interesting is not necessarily being obscure. Whilst it can be nice to have a little bit of veil over what you say, but just being obtuse and using spooky words is actually less relevant than the musings of the Spice Girls. Profundity has to have depth and not be a lot of flowery bollox covering up vacuousness.

Bit of a rant really, I am sure it has been said a number of times more than I bothered to read it, but every era has it's Disco, it's Emerson Lake and Palmer et al, overblown commercial tat that the mojority enjoy, and every era has more underground interesting music. This day and age of global corps owing all the record labels has hampered the underground scene as it stays well underground or sells out badly, so I think we do have more of an issue than previously, but has it ever occured to anyone that there are not many songs left to write? There aren't that amny chords and rhythms to match up and not too many different types of love, angst and rebellion.

It's an inconclusive rant as I am not that au fait with todays music, but I don't thinkit's any worse than ten years ago, or 20 when we had Toto Coelho singing "I eat Cannibals".

That's it.

For some, a few spooky references to Poe is really profound.

cf. "These are the stories of Edgar Allen Poe/Not exactly the boy next door" - Edgar Allen Poe - Lou Reed.

I know exactly what you mean. I don't expect them to be the next Beethoven, but they could at least try. I'm taking up music myself so I can give anarchism some decent music instead of the crap associated with the Left today.

I know exactly what you mean. I don't expect them to be the next Beethoven, but they could at least try. I'm taking up music myself so I can give anarchism some decent music instead of the crap associated with the Left today.

Now that's the answer. It's never been easier to write music than it os today. If you think you can do better....

I know I can't, I am crap at it, I shall stick to writing I think.

Sometimes, there's a reason why underground bands stay underground and popular bands become popular. I wonder sometimes if anyone else realizes that.

Sometimes, there's a reason why underground bands stay underground and popular bands become popular. I wonder sometimes if anyone else realizes that.

There's two ways to look at it really, it's either because the majority of people, whilst intelligent, are not interested in worrying about important issues as long as they get paid enough to get pi$$ed at the weekends and dance and mate etc. then they don't give a stuff about anything that they don't perceive as affecting them (while it probably does in reality).

The other school of thought is that the masses are stupid :)

There's two ways to look at it really, it's either because the majority of people, whilst intelligent, are not interested in worrying about important issues as long as they get paid enough to get pi$$ed at the weekends and dance and mate etc. then they don't give a stuff about anything that they don't perceive as affecting them (while it probably does in reality).

The other school of thought is that the masses are stupid :)

Or, sometimes the reason that someone's favorite underground bands aren't more popular is because they're actually not very good.

I know exactly what you mean. I don't expect them to be the next Beethoven, but they could at least try. I'm taking up music myself so I can give anarchism some decent music instead of the crap associated with the Left today.

Let's think, why does all anarcho-punk music suck? Oh, I have a reasonable explaination, becuase its followers are stupid, angsty teenagers. Who probably have no real experinence in life, but reject authority. So they turn to "anarchism" which is the political ideology of cry-baby, attention whore teens everywhere.

The lyrics are shallow, especially compared to bands like Jethro Tull or Yes! The instrumentation is primitive, and the people listening to it are SHITHEADS.
Yes, for those Greenday and emo-rock fans, this is a big fuck you to all of you.


You sound like an idiot

You sound like an idiot

I was forced to use that crude language to attract attention to the thread. The collective deafness of the posters is outstanding. Only through shock can a thread rise to prominence.
And to use such a trite word as "idiot" you must be slightly defecient yourself.

Let's think, why does all anarcho-punk music suck? Oh, I have a reasonable explaination, becuase its followers are stupid, angsty teenagers. Who probably have no real experinence in life, but reject authority. So they turn to "anarchism" which is the political ideology of cry-baby, attention whore teens everywhere.

Brilliant. You have absolutely no idea on the origins of the music you yourself enjoy.

I was forced to use that crude language to attract attention to the thread. The collective deafness of the posters is outstanding. Only through shock can a thread rise to prominence.
And to use such a trite word as "idiot" you must be slightly defecient yourself.

Now you sound like a prententious asshole.

Let's think, why does all anarcho-punk music suck? Oh, I have a reasonable explaination, becuase its followers are stupid, angsty teenagers. Who probably have no real experinence in life, but reject authority. So they turn to "anarchism" which is the political ideology of cry-baby, attention whore teens everywhere.



Stupid: possibly, but able to feign intelligence enough to have an MA.
Angsty: no more than the next person.
Teenager: at 33 I left that bracket behind a long time ago.
Experience of life: plenty.

Fan of certain anarcho-punk: yup.

Looks like you might want to put forward another thesis, darling Musciea.

I don't think contemporary music is odious. In fact, I rather like some of the later works of Messiaen, Stockhausen, Cage, Ives...








....Er........













....Does anyone even know, or care, what I'm talking about?

The lyrics are shallow, especially compared to bands like Jethro Tull or Yes! The instrumentation is primitive, and the people listening to it are SHITHEADS.
Yes, for those Greenday and emo-rock fans, this is a big fuck you to all of you.
And you are a rather sad, if very stupid and careless person. I personally don't like very much of the modern music, but I at least respect the right of others to like it.
Also I would like to know something. I took my godson to the hospital the other day (he had broken his leg) and he pointed out several different people and called them "emo" or "goth". What is this obsession with classing people by the music they listen to?

The lyrics are shallow, especially compared to bands like Jethro Tull or Yes! The instrumentation is primitive, and the people listening to it are SHITHEADS.
Yes, for those Greenday and emo-rock fans, this is a big fuck you to all of you.

And when was the last time you saw the light of day sweetie?

Greenday are awful, granted, however, beyond the generically cliched emo such as MCR, groups such as Thrice, The Junior Varsity and FFAF actually possess musical talent and a capacity to write lyrics implicit of something beyond quintissentially depressed emotions.

Moreover, in comparison to the bilge the myriad or rap artists extoll perenially, emo is actually tolerable.

Brilliant. You have absolutely no idea on the origins of the music you yourself enjoy.

Bob Dylan, Black Sabbath, The Who, The Band, Rolling Stones, Genesis, Journey, Eric Clapton(and his many bands), Neil Young, Jethro Tull, Yes!, Jimi Hendrix, Ozzy Osbourne, Mc5, Styx, Jimmy Buffet, Jim Croce, Cat Stevens, Dio, Eddie Money, Led Zepplin, Grand Funk Railroad, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Deep Purple, Elo, Tom Petty, the Eagles, The Animals, Rush, King Crimson, REO Speedwagon, Frank Zappa, more that I can't think of right now.

None of them are "anarcho-punk" by any stretch of the word(with the exception of the Mc5.)

Let's think, why does all anarcho-punk music suck? Oh, I have a reasonable explaination, becuase its followers are stupid, angsty teenagers. Who probably have no real experinence in life, but reject authority. So they turn to "anarchism" which is the political ideology of cry-baby, attention whore teens everywhere.

Nonsense, the problem with anarcho-punk is the punk, not the anarchy. You can only get so far with angry shouting and mocking social conventions. Nietzsche was criticizing conventional morality 100 years before they were born and they simply aren't groundbreaking or defiant.

I for one intend to take up classical music rather than pop, punk, metal, etc., which in most cases really aren't that great.

Some music today is utterly awful, but that's true of any age. Sufjan Stevens & Ted Leo prove that modern music can be as beautiful (both musically and lyricaly) and meaningful as any other time. If you think modern music is terrible, you haven't been listening to the right stuff

I don't think contemporary music is odious. In fact, I rather like some of the later works of Messiaen, Stockhausen, Cage, Ives.......Does anyone even know, or care, what I'm talking about?
mmm...Ives...huge fan. Actually, Mvt 2 of Three Places In New England is about the place where I used to camp and Ives himself is from my state. Doesn't compare to Gorecki tho. There is one brilliant (and very sad) man.

Oh, and MUSICEA, you claim that a problem with music today is that the instrumentation is "primitive"...I have several arguments to that.
First of all, Gregorian chants. No instrumentation, still amazing.
Baroque. Very primitive instrumentation, from the instruments themselves to the use of Baso Continuo. Still amazing.
Hell, lets look at Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd...bands I think we can agree are great, but I could find more if you don't like these choices. Lets look at some songs by them...particulaly Going To California and Wish You Were Here...both songs are very simplistic. That is part of their amazing beauty. Are there songs like Bohemian Rhapsody which are inanely complex and beautiful? yes. Is it a requirement to make a beautiful song? no. You get out of music what you choose. I personally find it to be demeaning of yourself to state that if people don't like your taste in music, they must be stupid. All you accomplish is to make yourself seem very close minded and pretentious. Do I like all of todays music? No. Do I think people who have different taste from me are stupid for liking what they do? fuck no (I believe they are stupid for other reasons ;) )

Anyway, I know that I posted something along these lines before, so sorry if it is repetitive. Just a new argument that popped into my head.