NationStates Jolt Archive


A bit of insight into why some people enlist.

Eutrusca
07-10-2005, 19:23
COMMENTARY: At a time when recruiters are having problems reaching their enlistment quotas, and some schools are even denying access to students, San Antonio, Texas, has no such problem. This article gives insight into why this is true.


San Antonio Proudly Lines Up
Behind the Military Recruiter (http://www.military.com/earlybrief/0,,,00.html)


By DAMIEN CAVE
Published: October 7, 2005

SAN ANTONIO - This city has its critics of the war in Iraq and its angry mothers who try to shame recruiters into going home. More than anything, though, it has a powerful patriotism and a deep respect for the military life.

At a time when the divide is widening between the cities and regions that send their children to war and those that do not, San Antonio remains a ready source of what the military needs most: people.

This metropolis - the home of the Alamo and the site of an Army presence since 1845 - is a top recruiting market for every branch of the military. The Army, in particular, which has struggled to sign up new soldiers during the continuing violence in Iraq and Afghanistan, has found the San Antonio area to be a reliable and steady source of recruits.

Nationwide, every one of the Army's 41 recruiting battalions failed to meet its recruiting goal in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30, falling 7,000 soldiers short of the goal needed to refill the ranks, according to Army figures. Not since 1979 has the Army missed its annual quota by so many recruits. And yet San Antonio's recruiters, covering the city of 1.2 million people as well as the area stretching north to Austin and south to the Mexican border, ranked first among battalions by signing up 2,118 people for active duty, 86 percent of its goal.

Only Oklahoma City, which followed with 78 percent, and St. Louis, with 72 percent, came close, according to the Army figures.

"People always say, 'How can you be doing so good when we're at war?' said Sgt. First Class Jaime Gaitan, 40, a senior Army recruiter on San Antonio's east side, at an award ceremony for being the only battalion to exceed its recruiting quotas for August. "But here the war boosts morale."

San Antonio has long described itself as Military City, U.S.A., but other military cities, like Fayetteville, N.C., also yield a large numbers of recruits.

Here, the culture of support starts with the strong military presence. Kelly Air Force Base closed in the 1990's, but San Antonio is still ringed by three Air Force installations as well as Brooke Army Medical Center and Fort Sam Houston, the Army's largest base through World War II.

Census figures also show that there are more veterans here than in other American cities of San Antonio's size, including Dallas and San Diego.

Many of these veterans are retirees. And because of a Texas program that makes it easier for them to gain jobs as teachers, San Antonio's schools are filled with men and women who served in uniform for 20 years or more.

They are often eager, active links between the battalion's 200-plus recruiters and students, who even in San Antonio's relatively thriving economy - low unemployment and a new Toyota plant on the way - are willing to enlist. Many students see the military as not just a good career but as a prestigious path, one more valued by some than college. "We're strong like that," said Jonathan Garcia, 16, standing outside the Ingram Park Mall one summer day. "If I'm going to die, I might as well die for my country."

In the hallways and courtyards of places like Judson High School, on the city's northeastern edge, a breezy comfort with the military is clearly evident. Since October last year, at least 25 former Judson students have enlisted in the Army, according to recruiting officials, making it one of the military's most productive schools.

It is easy to see why.

When Staff Sgt. Ian E. Davis, a square-chinned infantryman back from Iraq, and Sgt. Adam D. Torres, his soft-spoken recruiting partner, strolled in on the first day of school in August, unannounced and carrying doughnuts, the receptionist, Donna McMillion, greeted them with hugs.

"I appreciate everything you guys do for us - everything," said Ms. McMillion, wearing a pin that said "Too blessed to be stressed."

On most Tuesdays, Sergeants Davis and Torres can be found in one of the school's cafeterias, chatting with students or handing out free Army calendars. In contrast to school districts in California, New York and Washington State that have started limiting recruiters to only a few visits a year, Judson's administrators allow Sergeants Davis and Torres to come and go as they please.

The access is valuable because the student body is of Texan proportions: more than 3,500 on two campuses.

And size is not Judson's only advantage. At the school's Gray Campus, a short drive from the Red Campus, Barbara Meade, a guidance counselor, promised to point students toward the Army. "I have a lot of kids who need to be talking to you," she said to Sergeant Davis. "It's their best option."

The student population is heavily Hispanic, coming from mostly lower- and middle-class families. About 470 students are enrolled in the Air Force Junior R.O.T.C. program. Their day begins with the Pledge of Allegiance to the American and Texan flags.

Among Judson's faculty, connections to the military are as common as master's degrees in education. Its principal, Brad Williams, said 70 percent of the 280-member faculty served in the military, have family members who served, or also work in jobs connected to local bases. The concentrated military presence puts people like Richard McCarson, an assistant principal with a broad chest and a slight Texas drawl, in close contact with teenagers looking for a career. He tells a simple tale in a gruff voice: He was drafted at 19, and, he says, it was the best thing that ever happened to him.

"I was the first person in my family to go to college, and my entire education was paid for by the military," he said, standing in Mr. Williams's office.

Mr. McCarson met Sergeant Davis back when the recruiter was a mischievous teenager at a high school a few hours north. These days they are partners on a common mission.

"He's a combat veteran now," Mr. McCarson said of Sergeant Davis. "I got chills when I found out. That's how excited I was for him."

At the Ingram Park Mall across town, teenagers gathered near the food court on a recent afternoon and strolled between J. C. Penney and E. B. Games, where a shoulder-height display out front promoted a new video combat game called "Far Cry Instincts."

The young people hanging out and shopping did not necessarily look to be military material. Miguel Romo, 20, with his scruffy facial hair, backward baseball hat and T-shirt down to his knees, seemed more in tune with hip-hop than Huah, the Army chant.

But in fact, Mr. Romo - like a handful of other young shoppers - said he planned to enlist. He said his grandfather served in the Air Force for 30 years. "At some point, everything he said just started to make sense," Mr. Romo said. "It just clicked."

Mr. Romo said part of what made the military attractive was the money. Like many people here, he said he thought of military pay as a step up, and the money goes further here since San Antonio is one of the country's most affordable cities, with cheap gas prices and new homes and condominiums starting as low as $80,000.

"I'm just going by what my grandfather told me," Mr. Romo said. "He's got five houses, nine cars; he's got it all worked out."

For many young men, like Ronald Ecklund, 18, the war in Iraq is an even more powerful draw.

A Judson graduate of medium build, with a soft blond mustache, Mr. Ecklund signed up a month ago for an Army infantry unit without being approached by recruiters. Standing in Sergeant Davis's air-conditioned recruiting station after a run, a few weeks before starting basic training, he said that he had known he wanted to join the Army two years ago, after getting goosebumps while watching the movie "Black Hawk Down."

"I wanted to get up and go right then," he said, wiping a sweaty hand on his Army shorts, "but I couldn't because I was only a sophomore."

Sergeant Torres said Mr. Ecklund was so determined to enlist that he took the military's aptitude test four times before passing. Mr. Ecklund said he could not wait to be involved in a war that he believes will make the country safer.

"It's just one big fire, and we're there to put it out," said Mr. Ecklund, who also persuaded his best friend, Arlyn Hales, 19, to sign up. "We're there to prevent terrorism from coming over here."

Parents here are often only slightly less gung-ho. Military mothers, in particular, are actively involved in efforts to gain recognition for those who serve.

On a recent Friday night at a Lutheran church in one of the city's wealthier neighborhoods, several mothers and a father gathered, over sugar cookies stamped with the seals of the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines, to frame pictures of local servicemen and servicewomen for a public display. At one point, Chris Peché-Schulz, the group's founder, a dark-haired single mother who works as a test proctor at a nearby university, pulled out a calendar she created with pictures of herself and those she called "my celebrities" - recognized heroes, from World War II to the battle of Tikrit.

"These are the people to me who are worthy of more attention and prayer," Ms. Peché-Schulz said. "They have a higher calling."

The other parents in the room nodded. They are united in support of the men and women in uniform, even though they do not all agree on the merits of the war. Political talk is banned at their meetings.

Not that the war's dangers can ever be fully suppressed. Members of the parents' group attended four military funerals in June. Since 2003, 17 men and women from San Antonio have been killed in Iraq. Only Los Angeles, which has a population three times as large as San Antonio's, has suffered more deaths, with 20.

One parent, Emma Bedoy-Piña, said she sometimes struggled with whether to recommend the military to her youngest son, Jacob, who graduated from high school last year. Noting that her older son, an airman second class, is stationed in Alaska and unlikely to be sent into combat, she said, "What if he's not as lucky as his brother?"

This summer, Sergeant Davis said, two mothers paid a call on his recruiting office to denounce the war and the recruiters' efforts. Still, for many people here, the war's needs outweigh political opposition, fear and ambivalence. Many said they believed that those who oppose recruitment are ignorant about the value that military service holds for the individual and the country.

At the Lutheran church, pride trumped all other emotions. Holding snapshots of young men and women in uniform, the parents there described their sons' decision to serve as inherently noble and brave.

"I have cards made up that I give to recruiters for them to pass out to parents," said Beverly Rosen, 42, the mother of Lance Cpl. Ryan Visket, who returned from Iraq in February. "That way, they can talk to someone who has walked in their shoes."
Skyfork
07-10-2005, 19:30
I don't like recruiters. There was always a telemarketer vibe they gave off to me to ever like them. If you're going to enlist, ask someone who is currently enlisted if possible and get the full poop.
Eutrusca
07-10-2005, 19:32
I don't like recruiters. There was always a telemarketer vibe they gave off to me to ever like them. If you're going to enlist, ask someone who is currently enlisted if possible and get the full poop.
Good suggestion. :)
Vegas-Rex
07-10-2005, 19:40
Maybe I'm missing something, but is the article basically saying they get recruits by brainwashing students and preying on the impoverished?
Tactical Grace
07-10-2005, 20:04
Maybe I'm missing something, but is the article basically saying they get recruits by brainwashing students and preying on the impoverished?
Not exactly. You will notice references to a few cases where people had already been brainwashed, most likely by the media. The guy who watched Blackhawk Down, for example.

I can't really bitch about this article, because I did briefly consider the UK armed forces as a career, though not out of a sense of misguided patriotism or poverty. More out of a sense of alienation and liking of physical activity in bad weather.

I'm not really sure if there is ever a 'right' reason to join a military organisation. If not poverty, brainwashing, a need to legally satisfy instincts of aggression, or jingoistic/nationalistic feelings, then it will be something equally sad - a feeling of profound isolation from the society at peace, a liking of the outdoors and the adrenaline rush associated with danger, etc.
Free United States
08-10-2005, 03:36
yay! my hometown's on NS!

okay, seriously, though. i come from a long line of warriors, all of whom i admire, respect, and love. because of my feeling of honor (call it giri, if you want) i will enlist. this isn't out of some blind thoughtless following of the bush administration (or any administration for that matter). no matter who runs the country, i will be citizen of it, and it is the duty and privilege of every citizen to provide for the defense of the Motherland( Rodina).

quote time!

"Also, I heard the voice of the Lord asking, "Whom shall We send, and who will go for Us. And said I, "I will go, send me!"
CanuckHeaven
08-10-2005, 03:49
"If I'm going to die, I might as well die for my country."
Too bad that many of them are dying for the oil barons and their price gouging retailers. :(
Rotovia-
08-10-2005, 03:55
I enlisted because the Army needs liberals. :D
Freeunitedstates
08-10-2005, 05:21
Too bad that many of them are dying for the oil barons and their price gouging retailers. :(

"To hate injustice and stand on righteousness is a difficult thing. Furthermore, to think that being righteous is the best one can do one's utmost to be righteous will, on the contrary, bring many mistakes. The Way is in a higher place than righteousness. This is very difficult to discover, but it is the highest wisdom. When seen from this standpoint, things like righteousness are rather shallow. If one does not understand this on his own, it cannot be known..."
Hagakure, Yamamoto Tsunetomo

Uesugi Kenshin
1530-1578
(Death Poem)
Even a life-long prosperity is but one cup of sake;
A life of forty-nine years is passed in a dream;
I know not what life is, nor death.
Year in year out-all but a dream.
Both Heaven and Hell are left behind;
I stand in the moonlit dawn,
Free from clouds of attachment.

Fate is in Heaven, the armor is on the breast, success is with the legs. Go to the battlefield firmly confident of victory, and you will come home with no wounds whatever. Engage in combat fully determined to die and you will be alive; wish to survive in the battle and you will surely meet death. When you leave the house determined not to see it again you will come home safely; when you have any thought of returning you will not return. You may not be in the wrong to think that the world is always subject to change, but the warrior must not entertain this way of thinking, for his fate is always determined.


Uesugi Kenshin (1530-1578)
Undelia
08-10-2005, 05:26
The people around here are largely poor, ignorant and they like to shoot things. The perfect targets for politicians who need bodies to carry out their self gratifying schemes of violating national sovereignty, and wasting billions of tax dollars.
Bleenie
08-10-2005, 05:38
before i read that huuuuge article..yeah yeah you inlist because you feel you owe your country the.. [/loss of words] duty? but others might do it because its the only good option they have.

did that make sense? im kinda well.. drunk
CanuckHeaven
08-10-2005, 05:48
"To hate injustice and stand on righteousness is a difficult thing. Furthermore, to think that being righteous is the best one can do one's utmost to be righteous will, on the contrary, bring many mistakes. The Way is in a higher place than righteousness. This is very difficult to discover, but it is the highest wisdom. When seen from this standpoint, things like righteousness are rather shallow. If one does not understand this on his own, it cannot be known..."
Hagakure, Yamamoto Tsunetomo
"The Way" = war?

The Iraq issue is becoming very critical now. War, or the kind of organized fighting, is something that came with the development of human civilization. It seems to have become part and parcel of human history or human temperament. At the same time, the world is changing dramatically. We have seen that we cannot solve human problems by fighting. Problems resulting from differences in opinion must be resolved through the gradual process of dialogue. Undoubtedly, wars produce victors and losers; but only temporarily. Victory or defeat resulting from wars cannot be long-lasting. Secondly, our world has become so interdependent that the defeat of one country must impact the rest of the word, or cause all of us to suffer losses either directly or indirectly.

~~Dalai Lama~~


1530-1578
(Death Poem)
Even a life-long prosperity is but one cup of sake;
A life of forty-nine years is passed in a dream;
I know not what life is, nor death.
Year in year out-all but a dream.
Both Heaven and Hell are left behind;
I stand in the moonlit dawn,
Free from clouds of attachment.

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth"

Matthew 5:5


Fate is in Heaven, the armor is on the breast, success is with the legs. Go to the battlefield firmly confident of victory, and you will come home with no wounds whatever. Engage in combat fully determined to die and you will be alive; wish to survive in the battle and you will surely meet death. When you leave the house determined not to see it again you will come home safely; when you have any thought of returning you will not return. You may not be in the wrong to think that the world is always subject to change, but the warrior must not entertain this way of thinking, for his fate is always determined.


Uesugi Kenshin (1530-1578)

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness. for they shall be filled"

Matthew 5:6
Rotovia-
08-10-2005, 06:19
<snip>
"He who quotes the Bible yet does not listen to God is a fool indeed. For this man listens to words for other men, written by men, yet ignores the very command -today- of his creator and there can be no greater fool then this man"
CanuckHeaven
08-10-2005, 06:36
"He who quotes the Bible yet does not listen to God is a fool indeed. For this man listens to words for other men, written by men, yet ignores the very command -today- of his creator and there can be no greater fool then this man"
"We so need to learn that we are here to listen to God even though He has chosen to use human instruments to communicate with us."
Freeunitedstates
08-10-2005, 07:10
The Way of the Warrior is fulfilled in Death. When it comes to either/or, there is only the quick choice of death. It is not particularly difficult, be determined and advance. To say that to die without reaching one's aim is to die a dogs death is the frivolous way of sophisticates. When pressed with the choice of life or death, it is not necessary to gain one's aim.
We all want to live, and in large part we make our logic according to what we like. But not having atained our aim and continuing to live is cowardice. This is a thin dangerous line. To die without gaining one's aim is a dog's death and fanaticism. But there is no shame in this. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai.If by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able as if his body were already dead, he gains freedom in the Way. His whole life will be without blame, and he will succeed in his calling.

Though it may be said that the gods dislike impurity, if one thinks a bit, he will see that he has not been negligent in his daily worship. Thus, one's previous faithfulness has been exactly for the sake of good fortune in such times as when one is bathed in blood and climbing over the dead. At such a time, if it is a god that turns back when one is defiled, then one should know clearly that praying in ineffective and should worship regardless of defilement.

It is bad when one thing becomes two.One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. It is the same as anything that is called a Way. Therefore, it is inconsistent to hear something of the Way of Confucius or the Way of the Buddha, and say that this is the Way of the Samurai. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all Ways and be more and more in accord with his own.

Hagakure, Yamamoto Tsunetomo
Rotovia-
08-10-2005, 07:27
"We so need to learn that we are here to listen to God even though He has chosen to use human instruments to communicate with us."
"...I speak to God, but cannot bring mysel to commune with a Preist.... I choose to speak to those who donot lie, deceive or flaunt with wickedness"
-Dr Jane Hansen
Beer and Guns
08-10-2005, 08:22
Too bad that many of them are dying for the oil barons and their price gouging retailers. :(

Honor and duty seem a foriegn concept to you canuck ?

"... I intend to fight hard for I have reason to come home. If you are reading this, then you know I have failed at my task. Only life threw me a curve, a man seldom has a choice in the manner of his death. It is only the manner in which he lives that is a mark of a true warrior,” U.S. Army Cpl. Glenn Watkins, from a letter written before his death
Beer and Guns
08-10-2005, 08:50
Its anonymous....

I Am A Soldier

I am a soldier.
My blood permeates the soil of many countries.

I have gasped my last breath on many a desolate
stretch of beach. For you...all of you, the children
who play in the parks, the mothers who watch over them,
the fathers who struggle to sustain them.

There are those here who have belittled and reviled me,
who have made a mockery of me and what I stand for.
You, also, have I suffered and died for.
I withstood heat, insects and disease
So the right to dissent would be yours.

I endured the pain and terror of battle and the maiming
of my body to ensure that you might worship as
you please. I died in agony in order that you,
no matter who or what you are,
Have the freedom to choose your own destinies.

AND I WOULD DO IT AGAIN
because I believe in the ideals that made this country
what it is today... FREE.
I love her with a deep and abiding love
that transcends mere physical pain.

I AM A SOLDIER.
Pray that I will always be there,
for if I disappear from this country, so will you.

~ Anonymous ~
Leonstein
08-10-2005, 09:00
Its anonymous....
That's because it comes from the mind of some 19th century romantic novelist somewhere in the hills in Wisconsin and was gladly used by the US Government to justify going to WWI.....

Don't ask for a source, but this seriously doesn't sound like anything an actual soldier would write. I've got three soldiers in my family (only one of them ever actually fought though) - and none of them felt like he had to pronounce his heroism out for all the world to hear.
Beer and Guns
08-10-2005, 09:22
His words
THE MARINE





We all came together,
Both young and old.
To fight for our freedom,
To stand and be bold.

In the midst of all evil,
We stand our ground,
And we protect our country
From all terror around.

Peace and not war,
Is what some people say.
But I'll give my life,
So you can live the American way.

I give you the right
To talk of your peace.
To stand in your groups,
and protest in our streets.
But still I fight on,
I don't bitch, I don't whine.
I'm just one of the people
Who is doing your time.

I'm harder than nails,
Stronger than any machine.
I'm the immortal soldier,
I'm a US MARINE!

So stand in my shoes,
And leave from your home.
Fight for the people who hate you,
With the protests they've shown.

Fight for the stranger,
Fight for the young.
So they all may have,
The greatest freedom you've won.

Fight for the sick,
Fight for the poor.
Fight for the cripple,
Who lives next door.

But when your time comes,
Do what I've done.
For if you stand up for freedom,
You'll stand when the fight's done.

By: Corporal Aaron M. Gilbert
US Marine
USS SAIPAN, PERSIAN GULF



March 23, 2003

Hey Dad!

Do me a favor and label this "The Marine" and send it to everybody on your email list. Even leave this letter in it. I want this rolling all over the US I want every home reading it. Every eye seeing it. And every heart to feel it can you please send this for me? I would but my email time isn't that long and I don't have much time anyway. You know what Dad? I
wondered what it would be like to truly understand what JFK said in his inaugural speech. "When the time comes to lay down my life for my country, I do not cower from this responsibility. I welcome it."

Well, now I know. And I do. Dad, I welcome the opportunity to do what I do. Even though I have left behind a beautiful wife, and I will miss the birth of our first born child, I would do it 70 times over to fight for the place that God has made for my home.

I love you all and I miss you very much. I wish I could be there when Sandi has our baby, but tell her that I love her, and Lord willing, I will be coming home soon. Give Mom a great big hug from me and give one to yourself too.

Aaron
Beer and Guns
08-10-2005, 09:25
That's because it comes from the mind of some 19th century romantic novelist somewhere in the hills in Wisconsin and was gladly used by the US Government to justify going to WWI.....

Don't ask for a source, but this seriously doesn't sound like anything an actual soldier would write. I've got three soldiers in my family (only one of them ever actually fought though) - and none of them felt like he had to pronounce his heroism out for all the world to hear.

Wrong it was written after Vietnam . This is the United states. You want insight then believe what you read . This is from the heart . Its also why we will never lose .

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
Beer and Guns
08-10-2005, 09:35
This is why our best enlist . Let them speak for themselves .

COMMENTARY
A Soldier's Plea: Honor Our Sacrifice in Iraq
When Sgt. 1st Class James Martin deployed to Iraq, he had firm, negative opinions
about the Iraqi people. Now, the Army National Guard soldier's perspective has changed.

By U.S. Army Sgt. 1st Class James Martin
230th Forward Support Battalion

BAGHDAD, Iraq — Today I was sitting in the foyer of the clinic in Iraq. It had been a fairly busy day: a couple of cases of pink-eye, a few upper respiratory infections, many muscle strains, a broken leg. We treated about 50 soldiers and one Iraqi civilian who was trying to get something out of a car just before it exploded. I am not convinced he was not a bad guy.

One thing is for certain, he would be dead by now if not for our medics, who gave immediate care to his injuries, and our providers who had given subsequent care for weeks now.

When he was first brought in, I thought he would lose his hands, but today it appears he will be all right. The look in his eyes tells me that he knows it too. He may have been a bad guy, but now he is a thankful man, happy that he met American soldiers.

Two men, Iraqi nationals — one a soldier and the other, his brother, in the typical white robe — came rushing up to the entrance of our hospital. As the platoon sergeant, it is one of my jobs to explain to Iraqis that they cannot be seen in our clinic unless it is a matter of life, limb or eyesight.

When I started toward the door to issue my explanation for about the fifth or sixth time this week, I noticed a small boy about 7 years old in tow of the man in the robe. In the arms of the soldier was a crying baby wrapped in pieces of cloth. Neither man spoke English more than a few words, "Baby, no good. Please."

I unwrapped the baby to expose a terribly distended belly, feet and legs that looked like filled water balloons ready to explode. His cry was pitiful. I told a medic to call for a physician and the surgical team. I escorted the two men and two children to our exam room. It was evident that there was a serious problem with this tiny baby.

After assuring the men we would try our best to help, I was able to ascertain that the baby was 3 months old and that the civilian hospital in Baghdad had sent the soldier away, telling him they could not help.

I saw a man who very much loved his son begging us to save his baby. He frantically tried to soothe his cry, gently kissing his cheek. My heart went out to him. I took the baby's vital signs as the physician assistant examined him. He determined that we needed to get the baby to Baghdad to our larger military hospital as soon as possible.

We had the father get out of his uniform and put on a scrub top so he would be a little less conspicuous — Iraqi soldiers are often targeted in Baghdad. The baby and his father were on their way to hope.

I came to this country hating Iraqi people. I did not want to be here. I have a 14-year-old son that I have raised alone. He needs me more than this country does. I have a 21-year-old daughter who has been having problems, and I want to be there to help her.

Just over a year ago I married my true soul mate. I did not want to put my life on hold and come to this God-forsaken desert, full of people who have been suppressed for thousands of years and, in my opinion, would never be able to run their


own government because they had been told what to do for too long. Their spirits are broken beyond hope.

As the sole custodian of my son, I was told I could get out of the deployment. And I had been denied the re-enlistment bonus offered to medics because I was in a non-deployable unit. "Non-deployable" meant I would never have to leave my son and wife.

But non-deployable unit does not mean non-deployable soldier. I thought about it. If I did not go and my replacement was killed, I would never be able to forgive myself. And I have the peace of knowing God has a plan for me. If this is where He leads, He will protect me or bring me to His presence. I remember as a kid learning about freedom and the sacrifices our forefathers made to grant us that freedom. Now it was my turn to do my part.

Today, I sit in Iraq, my family and loved ones in America. But I have new friends and loved ones here who serve with me. I think of the look in that soldier's eyes as we helped his baby. The look in the eyes of the children as we provide medical attention and toys. The smile from a mother who knows that there is truly hope for a better life for her children.

This road we are on is long and by no means without pain. I have had friends killed. I have seen children blown to pieces. We are here fighting for their freedom while some of their own set bombs in front of schools, knowing we would be less likely to suspect danger in these areas.

Many times I wonder if it is worth it. Then I think of the 3-year-old boy dressed in a suit watching his daddy graduate as a new Iraqi soldier. As he runs toward me, I am in battle uniform and ballistic armor, with weapon at high ready. He smiles big, waves and says, "I love you, American!" Yeah, it's worth it.

Many would have you believe this operation is a failure. Easy to say when they are sitting in their air-conditioned office, speculating about something they know nothing about. There are many awful things about war.

Many parents will not be returning to their children. Many husbands will not return to their wives. Sons and daughters will not return home. Don't let their ultimate sacrifice be for naught.

If you hear someone talking about the senselessness of this war, politely remind them of the price. I cannot think of anything worse for a child than to hear that his or her father died without purpose in a land of no importance. Do not allow others to forget or lessen the heroism of our fallen soldiers and those who have sacrificed a part of their lives to help our brothers and sisters in God.

My heart has softened for the Iraqi people, and my resolve to rid our world of bad guys has increased. Do not allow politicians to convince you that we need to leave before the mission is complete. I do not want my son here in 10 years starting over.

Sgt. 1st Class James Martin of China Grove, N.C., is a medic and platoon sergeant with Charlie Company of the 230th Forward Support Battalion, Army National Guard, out of Goldsboro, N.C.




Better to fight for something than live for nothing.
George S. Patton

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.
George S. Patton
The Bloated Goat
08-10-2005, 10:00
I can't bring myself to feel pride or even pity for soldier. Veterans who were drafted into a war maybe, but not those who join voluntarily. If I were in charge, we wouldn't have soldiers. Surely, we have enough missiles and things to defend our borders.
The Bloated Goat
08-10-2005, 10:03
And another thing. Some soldiers are heroes. But just serving in the military does not make you an instant American hero.
Leonstein
08-10-2005, 11:34
Wrong it was written after Vietnam . This is the United states. You want insight then believe what you read . This is from the heart . Its also why we will never lose .
I know some other country who said that of itself....
CanuckHeaven
08-10-2005, 14:06
Honor and duty seem a foriegn concept to you canuck ?
I do not see the war in Iraq as honourable, nor do I see it as a defence of the people of the US. How many ill conceived wars will have to be fought before man realizes that they are unnecessary?

I understand the concept of "honour and duty". My father and his three brothers all volunteered the moment Canada declared war on Germany. If my country was attacked and the lives of my family and friends were endangered, I would do my duty, out of love and respect and not for any honour.

What I cannot understand is the American that is willing to die to give an Iraqi "freedom" (which is just window dressing as I see it), yet has such bitter hatred, and contempt for many of his fellow Americans. The paradox boggles my mind.
Eutrusca
08-10-2005, 14:11
yay! my hometown's on NS!

okay, seriously, though. i come from a long line of warriors, all of whom i admire, respect, and love. because of my feeling of honor (call it giri, if you want) i will enlist. this isn't out of some blind thoughtless following of the bush administration (or any administration for that matter). no matter who runs the country, i will be citizen of it, and it is the duty and privilege of every citizen to provide for the defense of the Motherland( Rodina).

quote time!

"Also, I heard the voice of the Lord asking, "Whom shall We send, and who will go for Us. And said I, "I will go, send me!"
Yayyy! Somebody understands! [ cheers wildly, stamps feet, whistles ] :D
Eutrusca
08-10-2005, 14:12
I enlisted because the Army needs liberals. :D
Yup! My bros need someone to add a bit of humor! :D
Eutrusca
08-10-2005, 14:16
Uesugi Kenshin
1530-1578
(Death Poem)
Even a life-long prosperity is but one cup of sake;
A life of sixty-two years is passed in a dream;
I know not what life is, nor death.
Year in year out-all but a dream.
Both Heaven and Hell are left behind;
I stand in the moonlit dawn,
Free from clouds of attachment.
Hope you don't mind my having made one minor change. [ With apologies to Uesugi Kenshin. ] ;)



"Fate is in Heaven, the armor is on the breast, success is with the legs. Go to the battlefield firmly confident of victory, and you will come home with no wounds whatever. Engage in combat fully determined to die and you will be alive; wish to survive in the battle and you will surely meet death. When you leave the house determined not to see it again you will come home safely; when you have any thought of returning you will not return. You may not be in the wrong to think that the world is always subject to change, but the warrior must not entertain this way of thinking, for his fate is always determined." Uesugi Kenshin (1530-1578)
Good quote. Ever read a book called "Way of the Warrior?" :)
Eutrusca
08-10-2005, 14:22
The Iraq issue is becoming very critical now. War, or the kind of organized fighting, is something that came with the development of human civilization. It seems to have become part and parcel of human history or human temperament. At the same time, the world is changing dramatically. We have seen that we cannot solve human problems by fighting. Problems resulting from differences in opinion must be resolved through the gradual process of dialogue. Undoubtedly, wars produce victors and losers; but only temporarily. Victory or defeat resulting from wars cannot be long-lasting. Secondly, our world has become so interdependent that the defeat of one country must impact the rest of the word, or cause all of us to suffer losses either directly or indirectly. ~~Dalai Lama~~
Perhaps surprisingly enough, I agree with the statement made by the Dalai Lama. Too bad there are others who scorn such an approach. As long as there are people who do, there will be a need for warriors. :(

Psalms 144:1
NERVUN
08-10-2005, 14:38
I have a sneaky suspission that only a few enlist for the chance to serve their country, honor, glory, or what have you. That might be the reason they give, but I actually wonder if they are not just words they read at the recruiting office and their real reasons for joining are more pragmatic.

Having said that though, I also have a sneaky suspission (that I can't confirm for obvious reasons) that during the course of their service, their reasons change till it matches those words they orginally gave.

At least for the ones who stay in the service.
Jeruselem
08-10-2005, 15:16
Many reasons why people join the armed forces
(1) Conscription - No choice that it
(2) Patriotism - Some believe it's the ultimate form of Patriotism, dying for you nation
(3) Desperation - If you live in poverty, can't get good education, can't find a good paying job - what do you do. Join the armed forces, they pay you and clothe you.
(4) Adventure - War is a great adventure for some until reality hits them
(5) Family tradition - Some families are basically tethered to the military system
(6) Skilling up - Some use military training to skill up before leaving for a similar civilian job
Foecker
08-10-2005, 15:21
Many reasons why people join the armed forces
(1) Conscription - No choice that it
(2) Patriotism - Some believe it's the ultimate form of Patriotism, dying for you nation
(3) Desperation - If you live in poverty, can't get good education, can't find a good paying job - what do you do. Join the armed forces, they pay you and clothe you.
(4) Adventure - War is a great adventure for some until reality hits them
(5) Family tradition - Some families are basically tethered to the military system
(6) Skilling up - Some use military training to skill up before leaving for a similar civilian job

You forgot #7

(7) Rum - "Welcome to the navy, lad! Bwhahahaha" Thats how they used to enlist in the good ol' days in Britain. Allrighty, you got a point if you say that those guys didn't actually sign up on their own free will, but lets face, neither are those who are poverty driven or because of social pressure.

And hey, seeing how they are in need of troops this might mean a booming time ahead for the rum salesman.
Jeruselem
08-10-2005, 15:23
You forgot #7

(7) Rum - "Welcome to the navy, lad! Bwhahahaha" Thats how they used to enlist in the good ol' days in Britain. Allrighty, you got a point if you say that those guys didn't actually sign up on their own free will, but lets face, neither are those who are poverty driven or because of social pressure.

And hey, seeing how they are in need of troops this might mean a booming time ahead for the rum salesman.

Oh yes! Except that doesn't apply anymore. Can't drink too much in a modern navy when working. :)

Might work in the Russian navy still.
Non-violent Adults
08-10-2005, 15:28
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed78.html
Demented Hamsters
08-10-2005, 15:37
Wrong it was written after Vietnam. This is the United states. You want insight then believe what you read. This is from the heart. Its also why we will never lose.
Vietnam? Hmmm....sounds familar. Oh yes, isn't that the war you LOST?
Demented Hamsters
08-10-2005, 15:39
Hope you don't mind my having made one minor change. [ With apologies to Uesugi Kenshin. ] ;)

You sure you want to just put down 62? That means you haven't got much longer! Surely 82 would be better. That way, you'll be around on NS a bit longer. ;)
Jeruselem
08-10-2005, 15:42
Vietnam? Hmmm....sounds familar. Oh yes, isn't that the war you LOST?

Well, technically the US and Vietnam were never "at war" - more like a military intervention. So they didn't lose a war, technically.
Demented Hamsters
08-10-2005, 15:45
Well, technically the US and Vietnam were never "at war" - more like a military intervention. So they didn't lose a war, technically.
Ok, good call. It was a military intervention that was lost. Not a war.
Foecker
08-10-2005, 15:56
Ok, good call. It was a military intervention that was lost. Not a war.

Yeah, but thats just the Gov hiding behind syntax. Iraq too isn't an official war, at least not according to the US Gov, but it sure as hell is for anyone with at least two living braincells to work with, for obvious reasons gov personal are excluded from this group due to the fact that they are one braincell short of reaching this criteria. :)
Adlersburg-Niddaigle
08-10-2005, 16:13
Maybe I'm missing something, but is the article basically saying they get recruits by brainwashing students and preying on the impoverished?
Actually, I think that you haven't missed a thing. That is exactly how the recruiter operates.
As a parent, I would never permit my son to enter the military unless our homeland were under attack. I didn't raise him, educate him, spend time with him so that some idiot could send him out on a mission of 'empire building' where he might be maimed or killed. Besides, he has a personality that I find really engaging: he is kind, friendly, respects other peoples, and he's intelligent. Why would I want to deprive him of that by sending him into an organization whose purpose is to depersonalize him so that he can become a mindless killer?
Call to power
08-10-2005, 16:27
I'm joining the marines out of patriotism and the fact that I can shout it in public or on the internet for no real reason :D

also it is an exciting life were I can get loads of story's to tell at party's

SNIP

but isn't it his choice?
Freeunitedstates
08-10-2005, 16:54
Hope you don't mind my having made one minor change. [ With apologies to Uesugi Kenshin. ] ;)




Good quote. Ever read a book called "Way of the Warrior?" :)

actually, i have not. the book i have read is Hagakure, though i feel it is more than adequate.

quote time!
So tell thee Spartans that passeth by,
That loyal to her precepts, here we lie.
-Epitaph to the 300 Spartans under King Leonidas who held off a superior force of the Assyrian army under King Xerxes. All 300 men died at the small pass near Thermopylae, giving the Greek army time to withdraw and ultimately fend off the invading force.
Leonstein
09-10-2005, 13:06
So tell thee Spartans that passeth by,
That loyal to her precepts, here we lie.
-Epitaph to the 300 Spartans under King Leonidas who held off a superior force of the Assyrian army under King Xerxes. All 300 men died at the small pass near Thermopylae, giving the Greek army time to withdraw and ultimately fend off the invading force.
Xerxes was from Persia...

Anyways, do you know what we would have called Sparta if it had existed today?
The Soviet Union.
Shester
09-10-2005, 13:15
I enlisted to travel and attend college.