NationStates Jolt Archive

9/11 Justification, I know there is no way to justifie that, but what about the help-less civilians that were gunned down in Vietnam? :mp5: What about whats happening in Sudan? :( All this stuff isn't justified and also, STOP FUCKIN' WHINGING I mean, yeah, over 1000 people died, but just look at the civilian causualties in Iraq? Its dwarfing compared to the 1500 or so that died. Just think about that. And don't get snitty with me, I'm friken tired its 4 am and I am liable to get really pissed off (more than usual) JUST FUCKING THINK ABOUT IT AND DON'T WHINGE TO ME THAT I AM A HEARTLESS DICKHEAD OKAY?!!! And if you don't listen to that I'll have to smother you with some :fluffle:

9/11 Justification, I know there is no way to justifie that, but what about the help-less civilians that were gunned down in Vietnam? :mp5: What about whats happening in Sudan? :( All this stuff isn't justified and also, STOP FUCKIN' WHINGING I mean, yeah, over 1000 people died, but just look at the civilian causualties in Iraq? Its dwarfing compared to the 1500 or so that died. Just think about that. And don't get snitty with me, I'm friken tired its 4 am and I am liable to get really pissed off (more than usual) JUST FUCKING THINK ABOUT IT AND DON'T WHINGE TO ME THAT I AM A HEARTLESS DICKHEAD OKAY?!!! And if you don't listen to that I'll have to smother you with some :fluffle:
1)If people are dying elsewhere, it doesn't mean the 9/11 should receive less attention.
2)What's happening in Sudan is awful- but how many of the "we-should-never-invade-anyone" crowd would approve on US invasion of Sudan in order to stop the slaughter?
3)Nothing of what you said above rules out the possibility of you being a heartless dickhead.

9/11 Justification, I know there is no way to justifie that, but what about the help-less civilians that were gunned down in Vietnam? :mp5: What about whats happening in Sudan? :( All this stuff isn't justified and also, STOP FUCKIN' WHINGING I mean, yeah, over 1000 people died, but just look at the civilian causualties in Iraq? Its dwarfing compared to the 1500 or so that died. Just think about that. And don't get snitty with me, I'm friken tired its 4 am and I am liable to get really pissed off (more than usual) JUST FUCKING THINK ABOUT IT AND DON'T WHINGE TO ME THAT I AM A HEARTLESS DICKHEAD OKAY?!!! And if you don't listen to that I'll have to smother you with some :fluffle:
Actually some 3000 people died on 9/11, which makes your estimation of over 1000 technically correct.

BTW, nobody's whining about it. We've invaded Afghanistan, and are pursuing Al Quaeda terrorists globally. There's a difference between whining and taking concrete steps to solve the problem.

You know what's funny? Within the state of VA, focus on the hurricane has almost COMPLETELY shifted to the story about the missing girl from VCU that recently turned up dead. THAT, friends, is the real tragedy.

Every death is equally a tragedy, no matter the circumstances. 2700 or so people dead in four plane crashes and the resulting chaos is no worse or less painful than the same number of people killed in any other battle, massacre, genocide, or whatever.

We damnyankees like to harp on it because we are primarily inward-looking, self-interested individuals. Probably true of the people of most or all other countries for that matter.

Actually some 3000 people died on 9/11, which makes your estimation of over 1000 technically correct.

BTW, nobody's whining about it. We've invaded Afghanistan, and are pursuing Al Quaeda terrorists globally. There's a difference between whining and taking concrete steps to solve the problem.
But youre not, you killed over 20 times as many Iraqi civillians in Iraq, and a million more with sancations than in 9/11.

The death of those who were murdered on 9/11 is neither more nor less tragic than the death of anyone else who died violently - including, indeed, civilians murdered by American forces in Vietnam or Iraq, for example. But your use of the word "justification" is clumsly, bordering on obscene.


1)If people are dying elsewhere, it doesn't mean the 9/11 should receive less attention.


Exactly. The problem is not the victims of 9/11 are receiving too much attention. The problem is that other victims of inexcusable violence are not receiving enough, by far. But that doesn't make 9/11 any less tragic.

1)If people are dying elsewhere, it doesn't mean the 9/11 should receive less attention.
2)What's happening in Sudan is awful- but how many of the "we-should-never-invade-anyone" crowd would approve on US invasion of Sudan in order to stop the slaughter?
3)Nothing of what you said above rules out the possibility of you being a heartless dickhead.

Well, firstly, I get told I'm a heartless dickhead alot, so that solves that problem and secondly, the 9/11 receiving less attention is, well its recieving TOO MUCH attention. I mean, more people are dying in Africa of famine that died in 9/11. But why should they recieve attention? They're a just a bunch of black bastards (sorry for the racial slur, but its part of what makes this reply up). I mean, well just, thats the probelm with humanity, they just can't get over what happens to them, they'll never get robbed, they'll never get shot, they'll never get murdered, no they're immortal and then they get hit by a car... sorry totally off the subject. I mean, one of the only reason there is no peace keeping forces in there is because France and China want to protect their "oil assets" remind you of any country???*smiles madly* and thirdly, the never-invade-anybody crowd can get screwed, I'm madly liberal, but really, you don't need to invade rather than get peace keeping forces in there (such as the New Zealand - Australia forces) but no, they have to deploy the African forces who can only deploy 3000 troops to a place the size of France... basically, if they fight, they're completely screwed

But youre not, you killed over 20 times as many Iraqi civillians in Iraq, and a million more with sancations than in 9/11.

Actually, estimates place it around 10 times as many people. Still, it's pretty unbalanced, and our American pride and 'patriotism' has blinded us to the reality of the matter. I say 'us' only because i am an american, and, as such, must count myself as part of the whole. At the same time, i try to make it apparent that i wholly disagree with my administration.

Anyway, 9/11 was a horrible day, and every day since has been equally tragic, because, out of anger and pain, we have lashed out at the world.

If you've got to know, I'm only thirteen years old, so, yeah. 9/11 happened when I was nine or something, and wow, all I can remember is OMG OMG OMG watching tv lots (as I used to) and repeadly the planes flying into the World Trade Centres (or is it centers because they were in the U.S.?) But now that I've told you my age you are probably going to be biased. Maybe its because I have very liberistic parentage that I am biased also (NO ONE can claim to be unbiased) but what I saw, was, just screwed up out of control that left everyone loopy. But DAMN IT I wish I could expain myself fully here... stupid english laugage, my view is that as a personage said, that America lashed out blindly in pain and anger, which is totally correct and right. As I said before, nothing justifies alot of stuff, but that stuff still happens. Nothing justifies rape, nothing justifies murder and it still happens, but the U.S. had a lot of hate towards it always, because, excuse my bastardness, but from my view on the outside its a bunch of white egoitisic bastards that rule over a country that has too much money. Its like eating too much of a good thing, thats exactly what Bush has done, and now the U.S. is in the process of spewing up the crap that will leave a stain on the carpet of the world for centurys such as the "Holy Invasions"

But youre not, you killed over 20 times as many Iraqi civillians in Iraq, and a million more with sancations than in 9/11.
We're not what?

The Iraq war was a dumb idea. I've been saying that since before the US attacked.

Anyway, I only said that we were taking steps to deal with Al Quaeda and not whining about 9/11. What does Iraq have to do with whining or destroying Al Quaeda?

Well, firstly, I get told I'm a heartless dickhead alot, so that solves that problem and secondly, the 9/11 receiving less attention is, well its recieving TOO MUCH attention. I mean, more people are dying in Africa of famine that died in 9/11. But why should they recieve attention? They're a just a bunch of black bastards (sorry for the racial slur, but its part of what makes this reply up). I mean, well just, thats the probelm with humanity, they just can't get over what happens to them, they'll never get robbed, they'll never get shot, they'll never get murdered, no they're immortal and then they get hit by a car... sorry totally off the subject. I mean, one of the only reason there is no peace keeping forces in there is because France and China want to protect their "oil assets" remind you of any country???*smiles madly* and thirdly, the never-invade-anybody crowd can get screwed, I'm madly liberal, but really, you don't need to invade rather than get peace keeping forces in there (such as the New Zealand - Australia forces) but no, they have to deploy the African forces who can only deploy 3000 troops to a place the size of France... basically, if they fight, they're completely screwed

I've got a solution for you. First of all, stop reading, watching, or listening to news programming. Second, start your own news organization that completely ignores 9/11. Third, quit trolling on the 9/11 subject and you'll limit how often you see it mentioned in NS.

Every death is equally a tragedy, no matter the circumstances. 2700 or so people dead in four plane crashes and the resulting chaos is no worse or less painful than the same number of people killed in any other battle, massacre, genocide, or whatever.

We damnyankees like to harp on it because we are primarily inward-looking, self-interested individuals. Probably true of the people of most or all other countries for that matter.this is good enough to be Quoted....

1) I'm American.

Ok, calm down. What are you complaining about anyway? that some dying people in another country aren't as popular as one's that died in the US? What would you have us do? huh? Go and invade those terrible atrocious countries? Or as you said, send a "peacekeeping force" that would in reality do nothing because as soon as they fired a shot the whole Afican/Sudan/whatever army would smash them. And People would just get more pissed off w/ the US for occupying another country. And furthermore, don't for one second think that all the Iraqi civilians have been killed by American Soliders. We're there to help them dumbass, not frickin' kill them. You have to take into account all the suicide bombings and shit that the crazy muslim terrorists pull off too. And finally, even though all human life is priceless, I care much less about what happens in a distant thirdworld country then what happens to my own brothers and sisters in my own country. There I'm done. Don't flame me back, cuz I won't reply...I'm just stating my opinion. Later.

I've got a solution for you. First of all, stop reading, watching, or listening to news programming. Second, start your own news organization that completely ignores 9/11. Third, quit trolling on the 9/11 subject and you'll limit how often you see it mentioned in NS. Wow, good idea, but the news programming I watch and listen too are freaky! They'll take over the known universe, Muwhahahahaha they say and then I say "Piss off" and then they do. Everyone :fluffle: time

Anyway, 9/11 was a horrible day, and every day since has been equally tragic, because, out of anger and pain, we have lashed out at the world.we lashed out at The world...as a result untold numbers of Iraqi civilians... men, women and children have died...

I do not see 911 as a justification for the death of Iraqi children.

we lashed out at The world...as a result untold numbers of Iraqi civilians... men, women and children have died...

I do not see 911 as a justification for the death of Iraqi children.

Unlike our opponents, we haven't gone out of our way to target children as the primary goal of our actions.

We're not what?

The Iraq war was a dumb idea. I've been saying that since before the US attacked.

Anyway, I only said that we were taking steps to deal with Al Quaeda and not whining about 9/11. What does Iraq have to do with whining or destroying Al Quaeda?

We're not taking steps to deal with Al Quaeda. It might look like we are, but in reality, the size and reach of the organization has not shrunk, if anything, it has expanded. Sure, we may kill some top Al Quaeda official here or there, but in the long run, will that really accomplish anything? Just like here in America, if a leader is killed, a new one is found within days. If we were really trying to squash all of Al Quaeda, the last thing we would've done was invade Iraq. Not only was the Iraq war a dumb idea, but it's counterproductive as well. It gave Osama and his crew even more reasons to persuade young Arabs to take up arms against America.

1) I'm American.

Ok, calm down. What are you complaining about anyway? that some dying people in another country aren't as popular as one's that died in the US? What would you have us do? huh? Go and invade those terrible atrocious countries? Or as you said, send a "peacekeeping force" that would in reality do nothing because as soon as they fired a shot the whole Afican/Sudan/whatever army would smash them. And People would just get more pissed off w/ the US for occupying another country. And furthermore, don't for one second think that all the Iraqi civilians have been killed by American Soliders. We're there to help them dumbass, not frickin' kill them. You have to take into account all the suicide bombings and shit that the crazy muslim terrorists pull off too. And finally, even though all human life is priceless, I care much less about what happens in a distant thirdworld country then what happens to my own brothers and sisters in my own country. There I'm done. Don't flame me back, cuz I won't reply...I'm just stating my opinion. Later.

Its flaming time - If the U.S. even tried and occupied another country I would terribly pissed out of my boots. I never said all Iraqi citizens have been killed by the U.S. Military, I'm merely stating the fact that the deaths of the Iraqi civilian population compared to 9/11 are so different its not funny, and all I see you as, a self-involved umempathepic dickhead.
I'm not saying the U.S. should occupie and even if they should try they'd probably be blocked immediatly and also all the stuff you have said yo have been vauge about the details, if you actually took in all the things I wrote you would know better than to write that.

We're not taking steps to deal with Al Quaeda. It might look like we are, but in reality, the size and reach of the organization has not shrunk, if anything, it has expanded. Sure, we may kill some top Al Quaeda official here or there, but in the long run, will that really accomplish anything? Just like here in America, if a leader is killed, a new one is found within days. If we were really trying to squash all of Al Quaeda, the last thing we would've done was invade Iraq. Not only was the Iraq war a dumb idea, but it's counterproductive as well. It gave Osama and his crew even more reasons to persuade young Arabs to take up arms against America.
That's one of the reasons I was against an invasion of Iraq.

We are seriously hurting Al Quaeda though. We've reduced their funding, eliminated their Afghan training camps, foiled many of their attacks, and forced them to rely on slower modes of communication that can less easily be intercepted by NSA and CIA.

...the Iraq war a dumb idea...its our fault...

We elected a dumb President.

(NO ONE can claim to be unbiased)



I can, i don't care, it doesn't affect me so i honestly don;t care and am hence unbiased.


I was flying on a 737 during 9/11.... my parents got worried...badly... oh well.... lik ei said it doesnt affect me hence i dont care....

Unlike our opponents, we haven't gone out of our way to target children as the primary goal of our actions.
If you read up on your own country's history, you might find that we have indeed targeted civilians--women and children included--as the main strategy for trying to win war. Yes, America, the world's only superpower, capable of destroying the Earth ten times over, has deliberately targeted women and children in order to win World War Two.

Anyway, I'm not aware of our opponents ever killing any American children. Civilians yes, but not children.

And if you haven't heard, the total death toll in Iraq--civilian and not--is well over 23,000. Why don't we just nuke all of Iraq and get it over with?

Unlike our opponents, we haven't gone out of our way to target children as the primary goal of our actions.
Uh, wait just a minute, the thing is, didn't they attack major political building? Not schools and the so? I'm not saying the U.S. Army is. You just said you haven't gone out of your way...

Telling people you'll get pissed off on the internet isn't saying much...

9/11 was bad but I think that is dwarfed by other conflicts. America likes invading people and killing civilians. it aso loves itself so much it thinks anything that happens is the worst hing in the world and should be thought about and cried about. 9/11 what can I say maybe when you think of the near total anhialation of the jews with over 6million civilans being killed in the space of 4 years you will think twice about saying 9/11 was horrific.

I can, i don't care, it doesn't affect me so i honestly don;t care and am hence unbiased.


I was flying on a 737 during 9/11.... my parents got worried...badly... oh well.... lik ei said it doesnt affect me hence i dont care....
What scares me here is not your inability to care, but your claim of being unbiased when really, you aren't. Everyone is biased, even if you say you don't care.

I can, i don't care, it doesn't affect me so i honestly don;t care and am hence unbiased.


I was flying on a 737 during 9/11.... my parents got worried...badly... oh well.... lik ei said it doesnt affect me hence i dont care....

And why did you come to this thread and post?

sierra why dont you decide too kill millions of people just because you can. How bout we nuke america. It has caused more problems than most have in the last 50 years. You cant just nuke someone d*ckhead

Uh, wait just a minute, the thing is, didn't they attack major political building? Not schools and the so? I'm not saying the U.S. Army is. You just said you haven't gone out of your way...

We haven't targeted a civilian building in peacetime in the same manner as the World Trade Center - a building that also contained children in day care centers.

The World Trade Center is not a military target.

No but if you were going to try and kill as amny people as possible what would you fly into. A small town in texas

9/11 was bad but I think that is dwarfed by other conflicts. America likes invading people and killing civilians. it aso loves itself so much it thinks anything that happens is the worst hing in the world and should be thought about and cried about. 9/11 what can I say maybe when you think of the near total anhialation of the jews with over 6million civilans being killed in the space of 4 years you will think twice about saying 9/11 was horrific.
VERY much what I was trying to say plus Vietnam and the slaughter of a village just because the soilders were stressed, thats a wee bit extreme

sierra why dont you decide too kill millions of people just because you can. How bout we nuke america. It has caused more problems than most have in the last 50 years. You cant just nuke someone d*ckhead

Really? And no European nation has caused any problems in the last 50 years?

And yes, you can nuke someone and get away with it.

If you don't believe me, ask the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I don't see anyone invading us, nuking us, or placing us under economic embargo for dropping those bombs.

Unlike our opponents, we haven't gone out of our way to target children as the primary goal of our actions. It is NOT okay to justify yourself relative to the moral standards of your opponents. That's the exact same thing that Abu Hamza does.

And we stood by and watched by… well, our governments did… while the genocide was going on in Sudan. And, I know this is wrong, but what should I care if those governments who didn't care - what should I care if their wives are raped and murdered and they're hacked to death?
okay, end rant :eek:

Its been 4 years come on.....forget 9/11 anyway.

more people would have died if america hadnt nuked japan. Civilian casualties would have numbere billions as they would attack the ameicans. And no you cant get away with nuking someone that is why it has only hapned twice

9/11 was bad but I think that is dwarfed by other conflicts. America likes invading people and killing civilians. it aso loves itself so much it thinks anything that happens is the worst hing in the world and should be thought about and cried about. 9/11 what can I say maybe when you think of the near total anhialation of the jews with over 6million civilans being killed in the space of 4 years you will think twice about saying 9/11 was horrific.
Yep, we love invading other countries to kill their civilians. Where do you think the meat for McDonalds hamburgers comes from? In fact invasion and the massacre of civilians is our mission statement. It's why the USA was created. BTW, is that straightjacket a little too tight?

by the way what problems have we caused.

As I see it american governments have been completely stupid making a name for "The american dream"

more people would have died if america hadnt nuked japan. Civilian casualties would have numbere billions as they would attack the ameicans. And no you cant get away with nuking someone that is why it has only hapned twice

We only got away with the atomic bomb because no one else had them to attack back...now we got...what? 10 nations with ICBMs? 11, 12, 13?

more people would have died if america hadnt nuked japan. Civilian casualties would have numbere billions as they would attack the ameicans. And no you cant get away with nuking someone that is why it has only hapned twice

A lot of people don't buy that argument - some say that we should have taken the millions of casualties.

And yes, we did get away with nuking them.

We haven't targeted a civilian building in peacetime in the same manner as the World Trade Center - a building that also contained children in day care centers.

The World Trade Center is not a military target.
Wow, niether are major urban cities, but hey, we all screw up sometimes don't we? Now I think I'm going to listen to some R.E.M., Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Joni Mitchell, Peter, Paul and Mary and someother godd artists

america has consistantly targeted civillian targets.

mosques hospitals schools you name it america has bombed or shot it

You ot away with nuking them because it saved lots more lives than it killed. Look t the cuban missile crisis would russia have got away with destroying america and by god I wish it had no.

america has consistantly targeted civillian targets.

mosques hospitals schools you name it america has bombed or shot it


Its war...tough shit for the civilians that get killed it happens.

america has consistantly targeted civillian targets.

mosques hospitals schools you name it america has bombed or shot it

Only when the mosque contains people who are shooting at Americans.

Under the laws of war, it becomes a valid military target.

Same for the hospitals that the fighters in Fallujah shot from - well, it's obviously no longer being used as a hospital, eh?

All you Ward Churchills on this board need to realize something about the deaths "we" caused in Iraq.

If you really cared about the lives of "Iraqi children" (let's all cry big crocodile tears :rolleyes: ) then you would have supported an invasion.

Let's not forget who was previously in charge.

You are part of a the "blame America first" crowd because you want to blame the sanctions for Iraqi deaths and not the guy who was quite literally killing, torturing, and starving them.
Most of them problems Muslims have especially in the middle east are caused by other muslims.

</rant>

Oh and the US is the most kick ass country on the planet. Get over it.

america has consistantly targeted civillian targets.

mosques hospitals schools you name it america has bombed or shot it
A mosque that has a mortar in the courtyard and is lobbing shells at US troops isn't a civilian target. The US hasn't targeted hospitals and schools unless the enemy was shooting at them from inside those buildings. At which point they cease to be civilian targets.

I want the rebels too take back Iraq. America should not have invaded. Regardless of what was happening. Look at guantanomo bay how bout we invade america, I'd be happy fighting the american dream

A lot of people don't buy that argument - some say that we should have taken the millions of casualties.

And yes, we did get away with nuking them.
Oh and don't worry over a 100,000 civilians got mutilated, MURDERED, burned, lost hair and got infertile and all the other things that come around with radiation. Don't worry, they're the enemy, we shouldn't care about whether we've fucked up a generations. Nah, no body cares about them.

I have some questions:
1. Why is blaming Iraqi deaths on the US and not terrorists trying to take over Iraq so popular with liberals?
2. Why are liberals still whining about the invasion?
3. 2500 people killed in just over an hour is horrendous. That many so fast is only comparable to battle deaths in both world wars and the holocaust. That's almost 60,000 deaths a day if that number was rate instead of total. Plus, 9-11 changed the world. It's even more gloomy and dangerous now than before 9-11. The US is pissed now. Never piss off the most powerful military on earth. Never go out of your way to piss off a nation with a few thousand nukes stockpiled during decades of fear. Japan pissed off the US just after the US created a good military. Look what happened. Heck, we even took out Germany and Italy with the help of a nation that was once on the brink of collapse not too long before then and a nation with a severely flawed economy and government while getting Japan to surrender for the first time. The US is pissed now. Iran better watch themselves. We invaded Iraq just because they violated a few treaties. I don't know whether France chose not to invade with us because they were really against it or because they still remember the whole "oil for food" ordeal. Why is downplaying the first truly major event this century so popular? This is one of the most important events since World War II took the US out of isolation(Yep. the axis powers are the reason the US is involved in world politics.)

America is not kick ass it is big ass
get over it america is a sh*t hole which everyone cept for americans hates

9/11 Justification, I know there is no way to justifie that, but what about the help-less civilians that were gunned down in Vietnam? :mp5: What about whats happening in Sudan? :( All this stuff isn't justified and also, STOP FUCKIN' WHINGING I mean, yeah, over 1000 people died, but just look at the civilian causualties in Iraq? Its dwarfing compared to the 1500 or so that died. Just think about that. And don't get snitty with me, I'm friken tired its 4 am and I am liable to get really pissed off (more than usual) JUST FUCKING THINK ABOUT IT AND DON'T WHINGE TO ME THAT I AM A HEARTLESS DICKHEAD OKAY?!!! And if you don't listen to that I'll have to smother you with some :fluffle:

You raise some interesting points. There was no discernable, blatant provocation for 9/11 and there is never a justification for the loss of innocent human life. NEVER! Not in Nazi Germany, The Twin Towers or Basra. There are however situations when it can be deemed explicable or an unfortunate bi-product. Not justification as such but explanations. Whether those explanations are valid and reasonable however is down to the motives behind the action which caused death. The motives for 9/11 were purely aggressive and inherrently violent, no escaping from it. On Iraq however, the picture is not quite so clear. The topic is up for debate and thus I will not comment on it.

You are part of a the "blame America first" crowd because you want to blame the sanctions for Iraqi deaths and not the guy who was quite literally killing, torturing, and starving them.
Most of them problems Muslims have especially in the middle east are caused by other muslims.

</rant>

Oh and the US is the most kick ass country on the planet. Get over it. Yeah, how about the sanctions were also responsible for deaths? Sanctions are stupid because in corrupt countries, they affect the weakest first and the leaders last.
My socialist country pwnz0rz your country.
Also, there are many other countries that could do with "sorting out" more than Iraq did. Like Sudan, for instance - it would be rather easier and less deaths would result if the entire Janjaweed force was sent to hell.
I want the rebels too take back Iraq. America should not have invaded. Regardless of what was happening. Look at guantanomo bay how bout we invade america, I'd be happy fighting the american dream Then you obviously know nothing about the American dream.

The most powerful military is probaly china or russia as rusian has 3 times more wmd's than you you stupid di*k

I want the rebels too take back Iraq. America should not have invaded. Regardless of what was happening. Look at guantanomo bay how bout we invade america, I'd be happy fighting the american dream

Good thing you aren't any good at it. And neither are they.

If we look at casualty ratios, the Viet Cong from the Vietnam War were many times more effective at killing and wounding Americans than the current Arab insurgents.

Today, the insurgents lose roughly 28 of their armed combatants for every American (as of July). And when they stand and fight, as they did at Fallujah, they get wiped out.

So, if you want to end up on the ash heap of history, go ahead and fight America.

And what's wrong with Guantanamo? Are you saying that we should never detain people who attack America?

Well, maybe you'll be there soon enough.

All you Ward Churchills on this board need to realize something about the deaths "we" caused in Iraq.

If you really cared about the lives of "Iraqi children" (let's all cry big crocodile tears :rolleyes: ) then you would have supported an invasion.

Let's not forget who was previously in charge.

You are part of a the "blame America first" crowd because you want to blame the sanctions for Iraqi deaths and not the guy who was quite literally killing, torturing, and starving them.
Most of them problems Muslims have especially in the middle east are caused by other muslims.

</rant>

Oh and the US is the most kick ass country on the planet. Get over it.

*ahemahem* Captain Planet hes our hero, gonna take polltuion down to zero! AND HES NOT FUCKING AMERICAN!!!*starts dancing*

I want the rebels too take back Iraq. America should not have invaded. Regardless of what was happening. Look at guantanomo bay how bout we invade America, I'd be happy fighting the American dream

I agree we should have never went to Iraq. I seen some awful shit there. I've even seen one of my own buddy's shoot a women's own kid just because he threw a small rock at one of our vehicles. I mean its war there is going be civilian deaths but it shouldn't happen like or because of this. BTW I don't talk to my buddy that did that to much any more...for obvious reasons.

Oh and don't worry over a 100,000 civilians got mutilated, MURDERED, burned, lost hair and got infertile and all the other things that come around with radiation. Don't worry, they're the enemy, we shouldn't care about whether we've fucked up a generations. Nah, no body cares about them. 100,000 < millions.

I want the rebels too take back Iraq. America should not have invaded. Regardless of what was happening. Look at guantanomo bay how bout we invade america, I'd be happy fighting the american dream
Which rebels? The al quaeda faction that would turn Iran into the new taliban style hellhole? The Sunni bathist faction that would put Saddam back in power then brutally slaughter Shiites and Kurds in reprisal for trying to pass a constitution? The Shiite faction under Al Sadr that would turn Iraq into an extension of Iran and destabilize the region? Be specific.

Please commense fighting. Come on, invade already. Bring all your friends. That way we can kill off all our enemies without being unjustly accused of targeting their civilians.

Oh and don't worry over a 100,000 civilians got mutilated, MURDERED, burned, lost hair and got infertile and all the other things that come around with radiation. Don't worry, they're the enemy, we shouldn't care about whether we've fucked up a generations. Nah, no body cares about them.


Obviously, no one of importance cares.

Any world coalition of nations that attacked the US to hold them accountable?

Any world coalition of nations that put the US under economic embargo to hold them accountable?

Any US leaders tried for war crimes for dropping the bombs?

No?

Get over it. We got away with it.

I have some questions:
1. Why is blaming Iraqi deaths on the US and not terrorists trying to take over Iraq so popular with liberals?
2. Why are liberals still whining about the invasion?
3. 2500 people killed in just over an hour is horrendous. That many so fast is only comparable to battle deaths in both world wars and the holocaust. That's almost 60,000 deaths a day if that number was rate instead of total. Plus, 9-11 changed the world. It's even more gloomy and dangerous now than before 9-11. The US is pissed now. Never piss off the most powerful military on earth. Never go out of your way to piss off a nation with a few thousand nukes stockpiled during decades of fear. Japan pissed off the US just after the US created a good military. Look what happened. Heck, we even took out Germany and Italy with the help of a nation that was once on the brink of collapse not too long before then and a nation with a severely flawed economy and government while getting Japan to surrender for the first time. The US is pissed now. Iran better watch themselves. We invaded Iraq just because they violated a few treaties. I don't know whether France chose not to invade with us because they were really against it or because they still remember the whole "oil for food" ordeal. Why is downplaying the first truly major event this century so popular? This is one of the most important events since World War II took the US out of isolation(Yep. the axis powers are the reason the US is involved in world politics.)

Oh yeah, I'm the U.S. I'll just step in at the last moment on what just happens to be the winning side... and Italy WTF? They switched

Guantanomo bay alsao hosues innocents mate would you like too be tortured. Even if you did do something wrong would you like having ayour dick electrified.

Oh and don't worry over a 100,000 civilians got mutilated, MURDERED, burned, lost hair and got infertile and all the other things that come around with radiation. Don't worry, they're the enemy, we shouldn't care about whether we've fucked up a generations. Nah, no body cares about them.
Shit happens. Don't forget that Japan was getting ready to use germ warfare against the US mainland and that could have killed millions at a time when antibiotics were new and in short supply. The atomic bombs just meant that we beat them to the punch when it came to WMD.

Obviously, no one of importance cares.

Any world coalition of nations that attacked the US to hold them accountable?

Any world coalition of nations that put the US under economic embargo to hold them accountable?

Any US leaders tried for war crimes for dropping the bombs?

No?

Get over it. We got away with it. Er… careful there. Getting away with doesn't mean it's right… after all, the Hutus got away with genocide. (incidentally, I think nuking was the best option)

I have some questions:
1. Why is blaming Iraqi deaths on the US and not terrorists trying to take over Iraq so popular with liberals?
2. Why are liberals still whining about the invasion?
3. 2500 people killed in just over an hour is horrendous. That many so fast is only comparable to battle deaths in both world wars and the holocaust. That's almost 60,000 deaths a day if that number was rate instead of total. Plus, 9-11 changed the world. It's even more gloomy and dangerous now than before 9-11. The US is pissed now. Never piss off the most powerful military on earth. Never go out of your way to piss off a nation with a few thousand nukes stockpiled during decades of fear. Japan pissed off the US just after the US created a good military. Look what happened. Heck, we even took out Germany and Italy with the help of a nation that was once on the brink of collapse not too long before then and a nation with a severely flawed economy and government while getting Japan to surrender for the first time. The US is pissed now. Iran better watch themselves. We invaded Iraq just because they violated a few treaties. I don't know whether France chose not to invade with us because they were really against it or because they still remember the whole "oil for food" ordeal. Why is downplaying the first truly major event this century so popular? This is one of the most important events since World War II took the US out of isolation(Yep. the axis powers are the reason the US is involved in world politics.)

Oh yeah, I'm the U.S. I'll just step in at the last moment on what just happens to be the winning side... and Italy WTF? They switched, most major event? Oh yeah, we don't care about the holocaust because they were Jews adn they are money-job-stealing bastards

100,000 < millions.

It's a zero sum question.

Killing a lot of people = killing a lot of people.

Yes, it's immoral to nuke people. Yes, it's immoral to invade them and have them fight to the death.

Which immoral do you choose? Which is why morality rarely plays a part in realpolitik.

Its war...tough shit for the civilians that get killed it happens.
__________________
Tyler Lee-Curtis Hunter, Jr.
MASTER SGT, USMC, USA ( Deployed ) Iraq, NOV02-NOV03
spoken like a true US soldier ?

Er… careful there. Getting away with doesn't mean it's right… after all, the Hutus got away with genocide. (incidentally, I think nuking was the best option)

I'm not saying it was right. I'm saying that we got away with it.

It *is* possible to get away with nuking someone.

mate sierra you got away with it yes we all know that i said that a few psits back. It saved more than it killed. But you are still a dickhead american who sucks g.w.bushes small dick and wants the world too be shitter than it already is

It's a zero sum question.

Killing a lot of people = killing a lot of people.

Yes, it's immoral to nuke people. Yes, it's immoral to invade them and have them fight to the death.

Which immoral do you choose? Which is why morality rarely plays a part in realpolitik. The decision to nuke was partly moral (less US soldiers and Jap civilians killed) and also to scare the Soviets (also a legitimate tactic, given their vindictiveness and Stalin).

Its flaming time - If the U.S. even tried and occupied another country I would terribly pissed out of my boots. I never said all Iraqi citizens have been killed by the U.S. Military, I'm merely stating the fact that the deaths of the Iraqi civilian population compared to 9/11 are so different its not funny, and all I see you as, a self-involved umempathepic dickhead.
I'm not saying the U.S. should occupie and even if they should try they'd probably be blocked immediatly and also all the stuff you have said yo have been vauge about the details, if you actually took in all the things I wrote you would know better than to write that.

Can you really lay all the blame for Iraqi civilian deaths at the doorstep of the United States military? From what I've seen, many of the civilian deaths have been at the hands of rebels and terrorists who are targeting "collaborators."
I was against the invasion of Iraq, but, now that it's a done deal, I feel that we are obliged to help the Iraqis get their house back in order before leaving. The alternative would be to leave Iraq in chaos and disorder, and many more people would end up dead as a result of that, through combat, disease, or starvation. Yeah, sure, we could do better, but it's easy for armchair politicians like me (and you) to say that.

Also, please explain to me how the deaths of Iraqi civilians diminishes in any way the World Trade Center attacks.

mate sierra you got away with it yes we all know that i said that a few psits back. It saved more than it killed. But you are still a dickhead american who sucks g.w.bushes small dick and wants the world too be shitter than it already is He got 51%. That's not much dick-sucking. Now learn something and try not to be a runty troll.

spoken like a true US soldier ?

I get what your saying but you need to go over there and see how it really is...if we are being shot at from a civilian structure we don't fuck around.

spoken like a true US soldier ?

I remember a time when several Iraqi soldiers (back in Gulf War 1) shot at me from too far away to hit me (their inexperience showed).

I pondered whether to shoot or not - I was not in any real danger that I could see.

But, I figured since they shot first, and they wanted to fight, I would oblige them.

They never really had a chance. Even though they had rifles.

Ocean, US soldiers don't go out of their way as a matter of policy to shoot civilians - the area in question has to be a source of hostile fire, or a known location for armed enemy.

We don't have people who drag civilian women onto television, frighten them with death threats, and then slit their throats. We're at least TRYING to be different. They aren't TRYING at all.

100,000 < millions.
Sorry, I jsut didn't wanna over estimate which I often do, and incedentally under-estimate

mate sierra you got away with it yes we all know that i said that a few psits back. It saved more than it killed. But you are still a dickhead american who sucks g.w.bushes small dick and wants the world too be shitter than it already is

Hardly. I don't believe that Bush is doing enough, or for the right reasons. So I'm hardly a Bush supporter.

I've posted before that had I been President on 9-11, I would have used a tailored fallout nuclear weapon to depopulate Afghanistan.

No US troops deployed overseas. And an immediate hush. People who had been thinking about screwing us some more would have crapped themselves.

I get what your saying but you need to go over there and.....I would never get involved with stupid wars like "the Iraq war"

I would never get involved with stupid wars like "the Iraq war"

War has a way of finding people. Just hang on long enough, and the wheel of history will bring it to you.

Wel, in a way we're all right and all wrong, so screw it, lets go all join Amnesty International and Red Cross, and then we can have a :fluffle: party

I would never get involved with stupid wars like "the Iraq war"


That is just making you sound stupid...I'm in the armed forces I don't have a choice to fight in the wars. I don't decide if I want to go or not the government does.

Ocean, US soldiers don't go out of their way as a matter of policy to shoot civilians - not as matter of policy?...how'bout as a matter of "i don't care if I kill a few civie rag-heads"....

...how about as a matter of "Its war...tough shit for the civilians that get killed it happens."

unless you mean to say that..Hamanistan is not what he says he is...a US soldier.
Its war...tough shit for the civilians that get killed it happens.
__________________
Tyler Lee-Curtis Hunter, Jr.
MASTER SGT, USMC, USA ( Deployed ) Iraq, NOV02-NOV03

Hardly. I don't believe that Bush is doing enough, or for the right reasons. So I'm hardly a Bush supporter.

I've posted before that had I been President on 9-11, I would have used a tailored fallout nuclear weapon to depopulate Afghanistan.

No US troops deployed overseas. And an immediate hush. People who had been thinking about screwing us some more would have crapped themselves.

No, I'm not saying you should have shut-up its just you're blowing it out of proportion and "depopulating" Afghanistan would have done you real well on the world stage. FLUFFLE TIME :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

not as matter of policy?...how'bout as a matter of "i don't care if I kill a few civie rag-heads"....

...how about as a matter of "Its war...tough shit for the civilians that get killed it happens."

unless you mean to say that..Hamanistan is not what he says he is...a US soldier.

If you were a soldier I'm sure you'd be killed. If there were people inside a civilian building shooting at you I can picture you just standing there waving...

not as matter of policy?...how'bout as a matter of "i don't care if I kill a few civie rag-heads"....

...how about as a matter of "Its war...tough shit for the civilians that get killed it happens."

unless you mean to say that..Hamanistan is not what he says he is...a US soldier.

Yes, Ocean. It's tough shit that some idiot fedayeen holed up in a building and shot at US troops - and that some innocent civilians just happen to be trapped in the building with them.

Oh, and I don't see any news reports of US troops using women and children as human shields, but the insurgents sure do.

So, what are we supposed to do, Ocean. Just let them kill us?

From the New York Post:
April 19, 2004 -- Bloody fighting in Iraq over the weekend killed at least 10 U.S. soldiers, including five Marines slain in the first 90 minutes of a brutal battle with guerrillas on the Syrian border.

The most fierce fight erupted in the northern Iraqi town of Husaybah next to Syria, where several hundred rebels launched deadly assaults on Marines throughout Saturday with rocket-propelled grenades and machine guns, U.S. Army officials and witnesses said.

The guerrillas first lured Marines from their nearby base to the former Ba'ath Party headquarters in town by detonating a roadside bomb there, said one witness, St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter Ron Harris. The rebels then opened fire on the Marines.

For hours, the guerrillas then played cat-and-mouse with the soldiers by ducking in and out of empty buildings and strafing those Marines who followed them with gunfire.

The five fallen Marines all died when they were ambushed by Iraqis hiding inside what the soldiers had thought was an abandoned house, Harris said.

The U.S. forces eventually quashed the rebel insurrection hours later after calling in reinforcements.

Marine officials said the rebels were so desperate at one point during the fighting that they grabbed women and children to use as human shields around their gunners.

"We're trying to get the snipers in position for a shot . . . some are using children to shield themselves!" one commander could be heard warning other officers via radio, according to Harris.

[b]"We will not take shots in which we could possibly hit children," the commander said.

In addition to the dead Marines, at least nine more soldiers were wounded in the battle. Up to 30 guerrillas also were killed.

If you were a soldier I'm sure you'd be killed. If there were people inside a civilian building shooting at you I can picture you just standing there waving...

If he's not going to shoot, you can always use him to draw fire. Just put him in a US uniform, and have him walk down the street some distance in front of you.

If you were a soldier I'm sure you'd be killed. If there were people inside a civilian building shooting at you I can picture .....I can-not picture myself as buying stuff form the local Colombian Cartel Pusher...or signing with the local Army Pusher (Recruiter)....

So, what are we supposed to do, Ocean.
#1) Allow Blix to finish his damn Job.
#2) Do not...I repeat...do not elect dumb-asses to run the Country.

#1) Allow Blix to finish his damn Job.
#2) Do not...I repeat...do not elect dumb-asses to run the Country.
Blix wasn't getting anywhere. UNSCOM reported the missing 9 tons of anthrax (that in reality had been destroyed and buried by Dr. Taha, but not even Saddam knew that). Iraq refused to account for the 9 tons.

9 tons of anthrax is enough to kill everyone on the planet. It's missing. Blix isn't having any luck finding it. The Iraqis are stonewalling. Dr. Taha can't say because she knows Saddam will kill her for getting rid of it. Saddam thinks he still has 9 tons of anthrax.

So, should we just wait, and wait, and wait to find out where 9 tons of anthrax is?

If you consider his academic performance, Bush makes Gore look like an idiot. So I think we didn't elect a dumb ass.

If you were a soldier I'm sure you'd be killed. If there were people inside a civilian building shooting at you I can picture you just standing there waving...
well if the "civilians" were shooting at you, they wouldn't really be "civilians" would they?

well if the "civilians" were shooting at you, they wouldn't really be "civilians" would they?

There might be (and have been) other unarmed civilians in a building that is being used as a shooting platform.

The hospitals and mosques in Iraq have been used by fighters as shooting positions. That doesn't mean the civilians who are ordinarily there aren't still inside.

Some manage to get out, yes. But some are inevitably stuck there with the assholes doing the shooting.

In some cases, the insurgents use women and children as shields, especially against snipers.

If you consider hi messs academic performance, Bush makes Gore look like an idiot. So I think we didn't elect a dumb ass.Iraqgate...Katrinagate...

Gore was not in charge....Bush was.

...at this point in time (after 4 years of Bushisms) ...I have to wonder about how reliable are those Bush-academic-grades

1) I'm American.

Ok, calm down. What are you complaining about anyway? that some dying people in another country aren't as popular as one's that died in the US? What would you have us do? huh? Go and invade those terrible atrocious countries? Or as you said, send a "peacekeeping force" that would in reality do nothing because as soon as they fired a shot the whole Afican/Sudan/whatever army would smash them. And People would just get more pissed off w/ the US for occupying another country. And furthermore, don't for one second think that all the Iraqi civilians have been killed by American Soliders. We're there to help them dumbass, not frickin' kill them. You have to take into account all the suicide bombings and shit that the crazy muslim terrorists pull off too. And finally, even though all human life is priceless, I care much less about what happens in a distant thirdworld country then what happens to my own brothers and sisters in my own country. There I'm done. Don't flame me back, cuz I won't reply...I'm just stating my opinion. Later.


As liberal as I am, I hate to say I agree with you, I also care MORE about what happens to AMERICANS than what happens to a bunch of Third-World folk who want to kill us! Does that make me bad? To care more about people OF MY OWN KIND more than people of a different kind? Especially when those others have repeatedly broadcasted about how they want to target and kill even more of my innocent brothers and sisters, because they cannot kill us on the battlefield, so they target innocent civilians instead?

As liberal as I am, I hate to say I agree with you, I also care MORE about what happens to AMERICANS than what happens to a bunch of Third-World folk who want to kill us! Does that make me bad? To care more about people OF MY OWN KIND more than people of a different kind? Especially when those others have repeatedly broadcasted about how they want to target and kill even more of my innocent brothers and sisters, because they cannot kill us on the battlefield, so they target innocent civilians instead?

One might add that if you think you've had a problem with fundamentalist Christians, you haven't met the Taliban yet.

Their vision of how the world would be run under al-Qaeda's rule.

I'm quite sure they would kill you Lyric. Quite sure the radical militant Islamic types would be looking for you in order to kill you in public.

Could someone please tell me why people get so upset that sept11th is STILL getting loads of media coverage? I mean, it's not coz we're obsessed about the terrible tradgedy, we all know there's much worse stuff happening ALL THE TIME everywhere, from third world countries that, aparrantly, noone gives a sh*t about to your good old fashioned backyard murders. No, sept11th is still in people's minds because it was such a bloody horrible shock.
Not just for Americans, who had to deal with the sudden realization that, hey, you're not invulnerable just because you act like you're the only country in the goddamn world, but for every person in another country with half a brain, who was thinking oh crapola what the hell have they been and gone and done. Everybody keeps a close eye on what America does, it's only common sense.

Oh, and I'm sure you know this already, but it's common opinion amoungst practically anyone who isn't american (plus one heck of a lot of people who are) that Bush is a complete and total arsehole who couldn't find his arse with both hands and a detailed map. Yeah, Republicans always put their 'associates' into the Supreme COurt, but for crying out loud they do at least usually pick qualified JUDGES. SHeesh.

I'm quite sure they would kill you Lyric. Quite sure the radical militant Islamic types would be looking for you in order to kill you in public.why?

just curious.

why?

just curious.

You should ask Lyric about her transgender status. Sexual orientation. Birth physiology.

The Taliban routinely shot every homosexual they found. If you were born a man, and weren't wearing a beard, you were beaten severely.

They take a dim, dim view of transsexual and transgendered people.

One might add that if you think you've had a problem with fundamentalist Christians, you haven't met the Taliban yet.

Their vision of how the world would be run under al-Qaeda's rule.

I'm quite sure they would kill you Lyric. Quite sure the radical militant Islamic types would be looking for you in order to kill you in public.
Abu Sayaf. In places where the Philippines muslim villages are, they are some of most fucked-up ass backwards places in the entire country. Yet for some reason they want to secede so bad that they have to resort to terrorism. I've seen it. I've been there, these hut villages under Sharia law. There are curfews, women are not allowed to attend free schools provided by the government (if available). If you go there as a catholic you better go there armed or else chances are high you'll be butchered by men with machetes and bolo knives. And these are underdeveloped villages. In the others, the men are trained guerillas, armed and ready.

Oh, and I'm sure you know this already, but it's common opinion amoungst practically anyone who isn't american (plus one heck of a lot of people who are) that Bush is a complete and total arsehole who couldn't find his arse with both hands and a detailed map. Yeah, Republicans always put their 'associates' into the Supreme COurt, but for crying out loud they do at least usually pick qualified JUDGES. SHeesh.The First Quality on a Judge is his UNBIASED JUDGMENT...

if he does not have that...then any other qualities he may have are totally worthless.

Ocean, here's what they would do to Lyric:

On March 22, 1998, 18-year-old Abdul Sami and another young man, a 22-year-old named Bismillah, were buried alive—put beside a mud wall that was bulldozed upon them—inside a stadium in the Afghan city of Herat.

The gruesome public execution was the young men's sentence, under Taliban law, of having been found guilty of engaging in sodomy. They were hardly the first to receive that kind of punishment for same-sex sexual transgressions: Just a month earlier three men found guilty of the same infraction had a stone wall collapsed on them in public just outside the city of Kandahar (purported to have had a large homosexual community before the Taliban seized power in 1996). Amazingly, all three survived and were taken to the hospital with fractures to most of the bones in their bodies; they were later given their freedom. (According to the Taliban's interpretation of Islamic law, if you survive such a punishment, you're free to go).

After the Herat executions, the official Taliban Radio Voice of Shari'a, clearly intent on sending a message to would-be sexual deviants throughout the land, proudly announced the heinous accomplishment: "Shari'a-prescribed punishment has been administered to two sodomites [in] Herat Province. The cases of the accused were investigated by the public prosecution office of Herat Province, where the accused confessed to their crimes without duress or torture."

The Taliban offer what is perhaps the most extreme manifestation of discrimination against women. As has been reported in the media, women in Afghanistan are beaten to death, according to Amnesty International, for walking in public with a man who is not a relative. Women are also beaten and executed for walking alone at night, or having their ankles or wrists exposed.

.. of having been found guilty of engaging in sodomy.and what do they do to you in Texas...if you engage in sodomy?

You should ask Lyric about her transgender status. Sexual orientation. Birth physiology.Thats a bit too personal...isnt it?

and what do they do to you in Texas...if you engage in sodomy?

They certainly don't kill you in a gruesome fashion.

They certainly don't kill you in a gruesome fashion.you are not answering the question.

Thats a bit too personal...isnt it?

Everyone has their own reasons in life for not liking one side or another.

you are not answering the question.
As of June 30, 2003, the Supreme Court of Texas ruled that sodomy is not a crime.

So, to answer your question - nothing. :)

and what do they do to you in Texas...if you engage in sodomy?
Absolutely nothing. According to Keruvalia's post in my thread on sodomy laws they've been struck down nationwide.

Everyone has their own reasons in life for not liking one side or another.I do not have any personal issues...

and If you have any personal or sexual issues...Its none of my bussiness

Absolutely nothing. According to Keruvalia's post in my thread on sodomy laws they've been struck down nationwide.I prefer someone like Sierra or Lyric to tell me...whether they do not suffer under US laws....

I do not have any personal issues...

and If you have any personal or sexual issues...Its none of my bussiness

No, but people's personal issues often affect their political issues.

Take gays and transgendered people. None of them are sympathetic to any Islamic militant group that murders people for their homosexuality or transgendered status. In fact, they fear anyone who wants to kill them for who they are.

So you see, a homosexual is not committing any crime in Texas - so says the law and the courts. But to an al-Qaeda member, or the Taliban, just being a homosexual or transgendered person is enough to warrant death.

and what do they do to you in Texas...if you engage in sodomy?

Nothing. It's legal.
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=15233

Wow Ocean. Here we have an example of

Islamic militants - doing brutality beyond imagining
Texas people - live and let live - not doing evil

Screws with your world view, doesn't it?

Ocean is trying to figure out how sodomy has been legal in Texas since June 2003.

Nothing. It's legal.
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=15233

Wow Ocean. Here we have an example of

Islamic militants - doing brutality beyond imagining
Texas people - live and let live - not doing evil

Screws with your world view, doesn't it?Nah...not really...

BTW...I like that web site...Thx for the link :D

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/services/webgraphics/wald/140x140rovejail.GIF
https://www.workingforchange.com/karlrove/index.cfm?mktcode=WFC003&atid=27174946

no really...

BTW...I like that web site...

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/services/webgraphics/wald/140x140rovejail.GIF
https://www.workingforchange.com/karlrove/index.cfm?mktcode=WFC003&atid=27174946

But you believe that the US = EVIL and Islamic Militants = GOOD, unless al-Jazeera tells you so (and they never do).

Here we have Islamic militants burying people alive = EVIL
and Texas live and let live = GOOD.

But you believe that the US = EVIL and Islamic Militants = GOOD, unless al-Jazeera tells you so (and they never do).

Here we have Islamic militants burying people alive = EVIL
and Texas live and let live = GOOD.
No, you don't understand. The taliban were just abiding by their culture. To condem them for that is cultural imperialism. Plus the gays did confess without torture and after their punishment they were allowed to go free. Our legal system might take a lesson from the taliban.

No, you don't understand. The taliban were just abiding by their culture. To condem them for that is cultural imperialism. Plus the gays did confess without torture and after their punishment they were allowed to go free. Our legal system might take a lesson from the taliban.

Well, the Taliban execution rule is, if you survive the execution attempt (for some reason the bullet doesn't kill you, the flames don't burn you to death, or the wall falling on you doesn't crush the life out of you promptly), they let you go free.

But you believe that the US = EVIL and Islamic Militants = GOOD, unless al-Jazeera tells you so ...still playing the Ocean-Lottery?...good sport...Play again. :D

2)What's happening in Sudan is awful- but how many of the "we-should-never-invade-anyone" crowd would approve on US invasion of Sudan in order to stop the slaughter?
That's the kind of foreign policy I approve of in the States. I don't want them setting up puppet governments after, but I'd like to see the States take on more of a role like that, like with Serbia, than see them invading a country with a waning dictatorship or overthrowing South American governments.

One might add that if you think you've had a problem with fundamentalist Christians, you haven't met the Taliban yet.

Their vision of how the world would be run under al-Qaeda's rule.

I'm quite sure they would kill you Lyric. Quite sure the radical militant Islamic types would be looking for you in order to kill you in public.

I'm quite sure you are right. But, then again, at least a beheading would be quick and clean...unlike the slow death being imposed on me currently, by economic deprivation. And "Christians" are the reason why. And beofre anyone starts going off on me again, you should note that when I use quotation marks around the word Christians...I'm referring to those who SAY they are Christian, yet do not ACT Christian...and not ALL CHRISTIANS. My mom and my cousin are both Christians, and are good people. It's just that the vast majority of people who call themselves Christian are not, in my experience, good people. They're hateful, mean-spirited, bigoted, selfish morons.

Ocean is trying to figure out how sodomy has been legal in Texas since June 2003.

Hmmm...ask him if "Lawrence vs. Texas" means anything to him.

No, you don't understand. The taliban were just abiding by their culture. To condem them for that is cultural imperialism. Plus the gays did confess without torture and after their punishment they were allowed to go free. Our legal system might take a lesson from the taliban.
Yeah, and you might take a lesson from having a stone wall collapsed upon you for a character trait over which you have no control! You might do well to have a stone wall collapsed upon you for some character trait that you possess that the majority happens to frown upon!

Yeah, and you might take a lesson from having a stone wall collapsed upon you for a character trait over which you have no control! You might do well to have a stone wall collapsed upon you for some character trait that you possess that the majority happens to frown upon!
I wasn't being serious.