NationStates Jolt Archive

I was in Ancient History the other day and we were discussing religion in the ancient world and the topic of Rastafarianism came up. For those who don't know, Rastafarianism is a religion that believes that if you smoke marijuana it will bring you closer to God. In England, it is a viable defense if you're caught smoking marijuana to say that you are a practicing Rastafarian and they'll check with the local church and other Rastafarians to see if it pans out. One of the more devoutly Christian girls in the class said, "But you can't just smoke marijuana because your religion tells you to." And my teacher was being very diplomatic and said, "All right then, as a Christian girl, which do you hold higher in regard, the Australian government or God?" She said,

"I don't understand because I'm a stupid girl with no understandable logic."

....

All right, I may have exaggerated that last part...

But anyway...

My teacher put it in simpler terms and said, "If the Australian government passed a law that prohibited your practices as a Christian, would you obey the law or would you still continue to practice Christianity?" To which she said "I would continue practicing Christianity." To which my teacher said,
"It's exactly the same for the Rastafarians." Then, here's the really good argument she fired back at him. "But no, they're wrong."
"Who says they're wrong? You've been raised in a Judeo-Christian society that makes you judge it as wrong but that's not the case around the entire world." To which she returned to her original argument, "But, they're wrong. You can't just smoke it because it's your religion."

Don't you just love stories about Judeo-Christian logic? Share yours here.

Christians drink wine as part of their religion, even if they're underage. I think it's fine for Rastafarians to be able to smoke marijuana. Also, I think that girl obviously had no thinking skills whatsoever. I don't think she represents all Christians, though.

You could always have asked why and set a non-Christian reason as a condition since you can't apply one religion's standards to another.

Watch as her head swells and explodes as she tries to figure out an answer.

Critical thinking. Love it. Hate it. Makes use of that grey matter.

Christians drink wine as part of their religion, even if they're underage. I think it's fine for Rastafarians to be able to smoke marijuana. Also, I think that girl obviously had no thinking skills whatsoever. I don't think she represents all Christians, though.


It is definitely not true that all Christians drink wine as part of their religion. Being from the South Eastern US, people would look at you like you were nuts if you said that. Further, if by "drink wine as part of their religion" you mean Communion, then this sip hardly qualifies as anything worth even mentioning.


Stupid girls are stupid girls, no matter where they are or what their religion; they're just as likely to say something retarded about politics as religion.


On marijuana, the easily justifiable position is that, firstly, it is a state-altering drug, and secondly, it is just as or more harmful to use than cigarettes. Therefore from a Socialistic / health regulation viewpoint, the justification for regulation is quite easy to make. From an economic (conservative) standpoint, having people running around high all the time would be viewed to decrease production. etc...

Much of those same arguments may be, and have been, made against alcohol. From an effects standpoint, it is just as much a drug. But from a harm standpoint, when used in low amounts, there is a clear disparity.

In England, it is a viable defense if you're caught smoking marijuana to say that you are a practicing Rastafarian and they'll check with the local church and other Rastafarians to see if it pans out.

Nope. Incorrect. Religious practice is not taken as a viable defense when it comes to marijuana use or supply in the UK or England. The Lord Chancellor himself is on record as stating "The laws in our country apply to everyone equally. Rastafarians are subject to our cannabis laws as everyone else."

Was it your teacher/lecturer that brought this up?

....
"But, they're wrong. You can't just smoke it because it's your religion."


:headbang: * grumbles out incoherent evil thoughts * Propaganda + Church + No intelligence.. [ My guess ]


I had a christian post in an Intelligent Design thread I started that said something along the lines of * digs through email for notifier* " the wording they use makes it totally sound like theyre trying to make us beleieve that evolution is real... "<-- :rolleyes:

This bitch owes me a new keyboard, as the dr.pepper I unloaded on it after reading this post jacked it up [ j/p ]

*snip* The Lord Chancellor himself is on record as stating "The laws in our country apply to everyone equally. Rastafarians are subject to our cannabis laws as everyone else."



Sourcage, please.


Thank you :fluffle:

Sourcage, please.

Thank you :fluffle:

Source of quote:

http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/111/full.shtml#britain

BBC News discussing the issue:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1076641.stm

The Equal Treatment Bench Book

http://www.jsboard.co.uk/etac/etbb/benchbook/et_03/et_mf12.htm

- note how the use of marijuana is commented upon, but no special legal conditions are stated, unlike the note concerning employment and dreadlocks that follows a paragraph later.

It is definitely not true that all Christians drink wine as part of their religion. Being from the South Eastern US, people would look at you like you were nuts if you said that. Further, if by "drink wine as part of their religion" you mean Communion, then this sip hardly qualifies as anything worth even mentioning.


I used to be Catholic, which was, last time I checked, a Christian religion. And so, yes, they do drink wine as part of the ceremony. And even if it is just a sip, it's still underage drinking.

Personally, I think people should be able to follow their religion as long as they're not harming others.

Thnx! :)

"Nothing in the book condones the use of illegal drugs or suggests that any section of the community should receive a lighter sentence for using them... These are totally inaccurate reports and are based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the book." - Lord Irvine

[ Just to drive it home ]

It's true, just like anyone else they are breaking the law, and what actions are taken depend entierly on who catches them at it, and whether they give a damn. Interesting point though...

To take this example to the extreme what about Religion's who practice Human Sacrifice.

I used to be Catholic, which was, last time I checked, a Christian religion. And so, yes, they do drink wine as part of the ceremony. And even if it is just a sip, it's still underage drinking.

Personally, I think people should be able to follow their religion as long as they're not harming others.


Missed that short but all-important little word of "ALL" in there didn't ya?

No sane person would argue that Communion is "underage drinking." Children get a higher dose of alcohol from common cough syrups than from that sip. Which is not to say that I agree with it myself.


Your last statement leaves you wide-open. If a rasta is really doped up, gets in his car, hits and kills someone, has his "religion" harmed someone else?

If a rasta is really doped up, gets in his car, hits and kills someone, has his "religion" harmed someone else?
Is he actually exercising his religion in the car, or is that his spare time, in which he falls under normal legislation?

What about Satanists, who like to disembowl things for the purposes of religion by the way?

I used to be Catholic, which was, last time I checked, a Christian religion. And so, yes, they do drink wine as part of the ceremony. And even if it is just a sip, it's still underage drinking.

Last I checked, the Catholics believe in the transubstantiation of the wine such that they are not drinking alcohol but instead blood...

If a rasta is really doped up, gets in his car, hits and kills someone, has his "religion" harmed someone else?

I would argue that it indeed traces back to him and his religions fault, they need some absurd[ call bush damnit! :: points cavalry sword up and horse neighs and stands on two legs ] law that strips their family of all possessions or something if that happened, what better ditterent?

What about Satanists, who like to disembowl things for the purposes of religion by the way?

Cant forget the Vodoo people and there ever entertaining slaughter of goats on the History channel.
_____
"The Rastafarian year is based on the Ethiopian calendar, which begins a new year on 11 September and has 13 months, the last of which has only six days."

Hah Hah.. Ironic

Your last statement leaves you wide-open. If a rasta is really doped up, gets in his car, hits and kills someone, has his "religion" harmed someone else?

No, he has, by being irresponsible. One shouldn't drive under the influence of any substance. Fucking duh.

Is he actually exercising his religion in the car, or is that his spare time, in which he falls under normal legislation?

What about Satanists, who like to disembowl things for the purposes of religion by the way?

Which Satanists? The ones I know do no such thing.

Last I checked, the Catholics believe in the transubstantiation of the wine such that they are not drinking alcohol but instead blood...

I used to be Catholic, I'm not anymore. Way too dogmatic for me.

Which Satanists? The ones I know do no such thing.
Sorry, I'm not well versed.
Just take it as a given that there are religions which require sacrifices, be they goats, cats or possibly even people.
Where does one draw the line in religious freedom?

GAHH!!!!!!!! Cathloc (Cant even spell it) whatever. Judo Chritians, whatever. Same thing as politics. In the midevil ages, they didn't have proper politics, they simply called it religon then. So some bright so-and-so comes up with the ol' Roman ider o' politics, and revives the following. BAH (scoffs)! It is truely silly the way people operate.

Same place I draw the line for all freedoms. What you do is your business, until you hurt someone. Then it's the public's business.

I think that a Religion should not be allowed to participate in anything that is against the law. Whether it be using illicit drugs, polygamy or sacrificing living things. Regardless, of freedom of religion or what not. That being said i'm not sure we can stop them if they think it is god's will that they do it.

Just legalize marajuana. Liquer is FAR worse. Who gives a *^%! what other people do with thier own bodies?!?!?! SHEESH!!!

Same place I draw the line for all freedoms. What you do is your business, until you hurt someone. Then it's the public's business.
Only someone, or also something?

just don't let them harm anyone else...that's all (am I raving?).

Just legalize marajuana. Liquer is FAR worse. Who gives a *^%! what other people do with thier own bodies?!?!?! SHEESH!!!

Agreed, though I don't think alcohol is worse, I think they're both bad. But I don't think it's any of my business if people want to do them.

Where does one draw the line in religious freedom?

When you start killing things with knifes that are bound at the legs and have a concious[ albeit we have no clue as to how well they reason ], and you dont need the meat you merely are offering the blood to a god in which you cannot prove exists.

Only someone, or also something?

What current religions practice the violent sacrifice of animals? I've heard the lame "Satanists do this" arguments thousands of times, and it's just stupid bullshit. I know some Satanists, and while their religion is incredibly strange, they don't disembowel animals.

I'd be interested to hear what religions do.

I think alcohol is definetely more harmful than cannabis. Still a very good drug though, especially in nicely tripel fermented Trappist beer.

All should be allowed to use the substance of their preference while not participating in traffic.

Butchering animals for religious entertainment is not more barbaric/cruel than industrial farming. At least the Muslim knows that an animal kicks, squeels and bleeds when you kill it.

What current religions practice the violent sacrifice of animals? I've heard the lame "Satanists do this" arguments thousands of times, and it's just stupid bullshit. I know some Satanists, and while their religion is incredibly strange, they don't disembowel animals.

I'd be interested to hear what religions do.

!Warning! ** Graphic Picture









http://www.wehaitians.com/voodoo_4.jpg
^source:http://www.wehaitians.com/voodoo_4.jpg
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/photogalleries/voodoo/photo6.html
Bam! :p

I see. It would be much more prudent of them to eat it, as they look poor. What religion is that, though? I'm sure the link says, but it's late and suffer from being hypoactive (lazy).

I see. It would be much more prudent of them to eat it, as they look poor. What religion is that, though?

Indeed it would be, as for Hatians being poor? fuck if I can remember.. :confused: That is Voodoo hich national geographic ^ link says is a religion and wiki would agree im betting but my brains dieing on me, as those who saw me post " vodoo " will have observed.

Christians drink wine as part of their religion, even if they're underage. I think it's fine for Rastafarians to be able to smoke marijuana. Also, I think that girl obviously had no thinking skills whatsoever. I don't think she represents all Christians, though.


Eh while kids can drink the 'blood of christ' ie the wine..no western country actually gives kids wine..its coloured water or blessed ribina....I am being serious.

Eh while kids can drink the 'blood of christ' ie the wine..no western country actually gives kids wine..its coloured water or blessed ribina....I am being serious.

That's not actually true. At least here in Finland the wine used is in fact real wine. And yes we are a western country :P

Last I checked, the Catholics believe in the transubstantiation of the wine such that they are not drinking alcohol but instead blood...

100% true.

But we still acknowledge that the physical "accidents" (I forget what the Greek word is) of the bread and wine remain. It is literally, wholly, and totally the body and blood of Christ, but it still has physical characteristics of bread and wine.

"That in this sacrament are the true Body of Christ and his true Blood is something that 'cannot be apprehended by the senses,' says St. Thomas, 'but only by faith, which relies on divine authority.' For this reason, in a commentary on Luke 22:19 ('This is my body which is given for you.'), St. Cyril says: 'Do not doubt whether this is true, but rather receive the words of the Savior in faith, for since he is the truth, he cannot lie.'"

And we don't substitute grape juice or anything of that nature generally even in the American South (though I have heard that it's possible if the priest is a struggling alcoholic... I'm not sure). The "wine" part of it is optional, though, as we believe each part of the eucharist contains the full body and blood of Christ. You can therefore take just a bit of the "bread" and be just as filled.

It is definitely not true that all Christians drink wine as part of their religion. Being from the South Eastern US, people would look at you like you were nuts if you said that. Further, if by "drink wine as part of their religion" you mean Communion, then this sip hardly qualifies as anything worth even mentioning.


As he said they drink wine

Eh while kids can drink the 'blood of christ' ie the wine..no western country actually gives kids wine..its coloured water or blessed ribina....I am being serious.
We use wine in the US (at least minnesota)

may be a bit off the topic of this thread, but, as illegal drugs are well...
illegal doesn't that say to you that governments don't believe that their people are smart enough to make their own choices?? so here in the UK and in many other places around the world the governments could be said to believe that their people are too stupid to think for themselves? hmm


the sad thing is that most people are too stupid to think for themselves.

(To OP) I could have easily answered that. "Religious people may follow any tenets of their religion unless they directly contradict the law." Since smoking marijuana is against the law, the Rastafarians can't do it - just as you can't sacrifice someone "for religion".

Incidentally, it's never illegal to drink wine, only to buy it.

(To OP) I could have easily answered that. "Religious people may follow any tenets of their religion unless they directly contradict the law." Since smoking marijuana is against the law, the Rastafarians can't do it - just as you can't sacrifice someone "for religion".

Incidentally, it's never illegal to drink wine, only to buy it.
It is in the US … consumption of alcohol by a minor IS illegal. As well as anyone providing alcohol can be charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors