NationStates Jolt Archive

Crossing America
By: The Gun Guy
January 19, 2003 02:56pm

The Challenge:

You have the opportunity to go back in time, arriving on the east coast of North America circa 1650, and your goal is to cross the North American continent, taking as much time as you need. When/if you reach the Pacific coastline, you?ll be transported back to the present day.

Your equipment for this journey will be as follows (taken back in the time capsule with you):
-- enough gold to buy provisions for the first five days? travel
-- a small backpack containing some clothing essentials
-- a winter coat, raincoat and boots
-- waterproof sleeping bag
-- ONE long gun (and 800 rounds, but no scope)
-- ONE handgun (and 1,000 rounds)
-- TWO knives
-- an axe
-- a box of 1,000 ?strike anywhere? waterproof matches
-- a topological map, binoculars and a compass
-- and a U.S. Army First Aid kit.

Once there, you?ll be given a horse, a mule and a dog?and apart from that, you?re on your own. Remember you?ll be traveling through deep woods, open prairie, desert and mountains. You may encounter hostile Indian tribes and dangerous animals en route, which should be considered when you answer the following questions :
1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
2. What handgun?
3. Which knives?

An AK-47 and a Glock 20, 100 of the rounds being hollowpoint.

The knives are unimportant.

I would simply sail to france, and give it information to make it a superpower(sure, it wouldn't immediatly fly up, but my knowledge in general would help them).

Nobody ever said we HAD to cross america ;)

Didn't Kim DuToit issue a bunch of these a couple of years ago? If I remember correctly the most popular pistol was chambered in .45 ACP and the rifle was chambered in the 7.62 x 54 NATO/Winchester .308.

Oh, and I'd take a M14 and a Colt Python with the 6" barrel.

For knives I'd grab a Kukri and some sort of small folding blade for intricate carving and cutting.

Didn't Kim DuToit issue a bunch of these a couple of years ago? If I remember correctly the most popular pistol was chambered in .45 ACP and the rifle was chambered in the 7.62 x 54 NATO/Winchester .308.

Yes. That's where I got this from. I'm a regular reader. He doesn't go by his name anymore because he's lost jobs due to Hoplophobes Googling his site. It's now the "Gun Guy" but still the "Nation of Riflemen".

As for me I'ld go for a

1)Marlin model 60 .22 bold action rifle
2) .22 revolver

Bushmaster Knife
Skinning knife

Yes. That's where I got this from. I'm a regular reader. He doesn't go by his name anymore because he's lost jobs due to Hoplophobes Googling his site. It's not the "Gun Guy".

As for me I'ld go for a

1)Marlin model 60 .22 bold action rifle
2) .22 revolver

Bushmaster Knife
Skinning knife

Two .22's? While its possible to kill larger animals with it, I would suggest against it heavily. With mad skill, you could get along for a while, but sooner or later, you would miss that headshot, or whatnot, and get trampled.

Gold, pah; guns, pah; knives, pah. All that's for children and little girls with pony tails and pink knickers. Try to cross the continent á la Cabeza de Vaca (though he didn't cross it, but still). That takes cojones.

Yes. That's where I got this from. I'm a regular reader. He doesn't go by his name anymore because he's lost jobs due to Hoplophobes Googling his site. It's now the "Gun Guy" but still the "Nation of Riflemen".

I was wondering what happened to that site. Thanks.

Two .22's? While its possible to kill larger animals with it, I would suggest against it heavily. With mad skill, you could get along for a while, but sooner or later, you would miss that headshot, or whatnot, and get trampled.

Here's my reasoning:

Small game(including fowl) is just as plentiful and much easier to maintain than preserving large animals on the march. I also am going w/ murphy's law that , at some time, one of the firearms is either going to break, get stolen, or lost. By using the same ammo in both, I continue to have a large stockpile of ammo no matter which is gone.

I would simply sail to france, and give it information to make it a superpower(sure, it wouldn't immediatly fly up, but my knowledge in general would help them).

Nobody ever said we HAD to cross america ;)

My thoughts prety much - an accurate topographical map of North America should be good enough to retire on and then some in 1650.

I was wondering what happened to that site. Thanks.

Here's the new address:

www.thenationofriflemen.com

Here's the new address:

www.thenationofriflemen.com
heh, already googled.

My thoughts prety much - an accurate topographical map of North America should be good enough to retire on and then some in 1650.

Assuming people don't just assume you pulled it out of your ass.

An AK-47 and a Glock 20, 100 of the rounds being hollowpoint.

The knives are unimportant.

I would simply sail to france, and give it information to make it a superpower(sure, it wouldn't immediatly fly up, but my knowledge in general would help them).

Nobody ever said we HAD to cross america ;)
Good plan. Imagine a world dominated by a people who don't believe ina full work week and love holidays, good wine, beautiful women and great food!

-- ONE long gun (and 800 rounds, but no scope)
-- ONE handgun (and 1,000 rounds)Does a bazooka count as a long gun?

Crossing America
By: The Gun Guy
January 19, 2003 02:56pm
Once there, you?ll be given a horse, a mule and a dog?and apart from that, you?re on your own. Remember you?ll be traveling through deep woods, open prairie, desert and mountains. You may encounter hostile Indian tribes and dangerous animals en route, which should be considered when you answer the following questions :

(A)=1st choice (assuming I must take handgun ammunition)
(B)=Alternate

1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
(A) Mossberg Mariner SS Pump 12 GA with supplemental .45cal (.457) BP ML barrel. and detachable box magazine (see brownells)
500 rds BB, 100 Rds 00, 100 Rds Upland fowl, 75 Remingtom Copper Slug, 25 incendiary/explosive.... and 2000 #209 magnum primers.

Reasoning. Superior defense/combat. All NA game capable, + I can make my own hunting/long range powder & ammo from available materials.

OR: (B) Ruger Red Label O/U shotgun chambered in 12Ga and .44Magnum Same Loadout.

Reasoning: If combat avoidable, superior game-getter with pistol bullet compatability.

2. What handgun?
(A) 5" Stainless Ruger Old Army 45 Cap and Ball with Ackley Express adjustable rear sight, 2 C&B cylinders and supplemental gate-loading .45Long Colt cylinder.... and 2000 #10 magnum percussion caps.

Reasoning: If it was good enough for Wild Bill Hickcock (OK, he used an1890 Army... sue me) It's good enough for me. .45 (.452) cylinder(s) compatible with ML barrel. 200gr LEE REAL cast & work amazingly well with a 6" gun producing over 1000 ftlbs using 45gr ffff. Bullets & Powder easily made.

(B) 6" Stainless Super Redhawk in .44 Mag + Speedloaders.

Reasoning: See Red Label. Nuff said.

EDIT: Assuming I could be allowed to trade the weight of pistol ammo for "ammunition stock" I could actually do this one today with what I have on hand.

1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
Mossberg Mariner SS Pump 12 GA with supplemental .50cal BP ML barrel (from Mossberg) and detachable box magazine (see brownells)

Long Gun Ammo: 3" Magnum 12GA: 200 rds BB, 200 Rds 00, 200 Rds Upland fowl, 100 Remington Copper Slug, 100 incendiary/explosive

2. What handgun?
5" Stainless Ruger Old Army 45 Cap and Ball with Ackley Express adjustable rear sight, & 3 C&B cylinders (2 spare) 30 pre-cast 200gr REAL bullets & percussion caps. (15 pre-loaded over 40gr 3f 777)

Handgun Ammunition equivelant loadout (assuming 1000 ea 260gr Lead 45LC = aprox 75 lbs):
20lbs Hodgon 777 in fff. (5 ea 4lb sealed jugs)
30lbs hard lead shot in #00 #6BB & #9.
3 boxes (3,000) #209 Magnum Primers.
3 boxes (3,000) #10 Magnum Percussion Caps.
Dual Cavity 45 cal 200gr LEE REAL mould.
Dual Cavity 50 cal 360gr MINIE mould.
800gr capacity melt/pour ladle.
1 sq m rolled woven Brass Screen (.5mm).

With this loadout I am set for ammunition virtually forever.

3. Which knives?
Leatherman or Gerber multi-tool.
Ka-Bar.

Springfield 30.06 bolt action . dependable , accurate , will kill anything I need dead .
Ruger security six , revolver in stainless steel . 6 inch barrell .38 / 357 magnum cal . Dependable , accurate and can be used to kill what I need dead .
K- Bar .
Leave me there I am having a ball but send me more ammo .

-- an axe

1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
2. What handgun?
3. Which knives?

Why not which axe?

Why not which axe?

You need an Axe ? Take one or make one or hire one to work for you . Shoot a bear a deer or another animal and trade its pelt for an Axe .

You need an Axe ? Take one or make one or hire one to work for you . Shoot a bear a deer or another animal and trade its pelt for an Axe .
You get a modern steel axe. The question Vegas wants answered is "why no choice/explanation" for said axe.

Gerber hand/field axe?
Double-bitted felling axe?
Hunter's skinning axe?
Throwing axe?
Gimli's LoTR/Helm's Deep (R)(C)(TM) War Axe?

etc.

Crossing America
You have the opportunity to go back in time, arriving on the east coast of North America circa 1650, and your goal is to cross the North American continent, taking as much time as you need. When/if you reach the Pacific coastline, you?ll be transported back to the present day.
Do the Gold Fields of California count as "Auto Return Pacific Coastline"? I don't think the Spaniards are in Cali in 1650... If not, can I stay a while? I have a little panning to do before coming home... :D

Long gun: G36 assault rifle or the SL8 (the civilian sport converstion the damn thing is a out of box tack-driver). Built-in optics, selective fire, 5.56mm NATO SS109

Handgun: Custom semi-automatic pistol chambered for .224 BOZ (10mm)

Knives: Ka-bar (Marine issue, not Army) and a leatherman.

Axe: Gerber long axe (the one with the fiberglass handle)

Here's my reasoning:

Small game(including fowl) is just as plentiful and much easier to maintain than preserving large animals on the march. I also am going w/ murphy's law that , at some time, one of the firearms is either going to break, get stolen, or lost. By using the same ammo in both, I continue to have a large stockpile of ammo no matter which is gone.

Still, a heavier gun would allow you to take down bigger prey, which gives you more meat. If you're on 1k bullets, do you want to shoot rabbits and whatnot four times a day, or heavier prey once a day, using your pistol to get you other food maybe once or twice a day?

I would also rather have a heavier gun, incase of an attack by indians, etc. A revolver and a bolt action rifle? They could zerg you... I would want a semi-auto of some sort(hence my 20).

Can I swap one of the guns for something useful, like salt?

Wait, no gun oil or any cleaning kits for the firearms?

An AK-47 and a Glock 20, 100 of the rounds being hollowpoint.

The knives are unimportant.

I would simply sail to france, and give it information to make it a superpower(sure, it wouldn't immediatly fly up, but my knowledge in general would help them).

Nobody ever said we HAD to cross america ;)


I would sail back to France too. Would use my guns to take over (no bullets needed). Just pointing them in the general direction of its citizens will make them run. That way I can just walk in to the kings palace and set up shop. First order would be to rename France to its Roman name of Gaul. Sounds better. Then I would slap some sense into the population. Train them to not run at gunfire and loud explosions. Then show them how to aim and shoot properly. Then go on a rampage and take over mainland Europe. Wait.... I think this was done in Frances history once. Hmmm well maybe because of my height I can see whats going on better and not loose at waterloo.

1. British Enfield .303 Bolt Action Rifle;
2. Glock .40 S&W Semi-Auto pistol
3. Stainless Steel "Bowie Knife" equivalent

I am assuming I have all the ammo I might ever need for both guns.

Yo mama head so small she use a tea-bag as a pillow.

Wait, no gun oil or any cleaning kits for the firearms?

You noticed that too. An extra pair of boots and some other sundries wouldn't go amiss either.

You might as well can the mule and horse too. Pretty much everything on that list can be carried on the back, so it's just more shit to look after before the inevitable death.

The dog might be fun to play with.

1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
2. What handgun?
3. Which knives?

Hollow Points
1. M14
2. Glock 10mm
3. A) 1 Bowie B) One hunters fillet C) One of those curved arab ones

I would sail back to France too. Would use my guns to take over (no bullets needed). Just pointing them in the general direction of its citizens will make them run. That way I can just walk in to the kings palace and set up shop. First order would be to rename France to its Roman name of Gaul. Sounds better. Then I would slap some sense into the population. Train them to not run at gunfire and loud explosions. Then show them how to aim and shoot properly. Then go on a rampage and take over mainland Europe. Wait.... I think this was done in Frances history once. Hmmm well maybe because of my height I can see whats going on better and not loose at waterloo.

With no body armor aside from your t-shirt/jacket or backup, you would probably end up stopping an arrow or minnie ball before you got the palace. Murphy's law and all that.

1. An XM8

2. Heckler and Kock USP 2000

3. A katana.

Here's my reasoning:

Small game(including fowl) is just as plentiful and much easier to maintain than preserving large animals on the march. I also am going w/ murphy's law that , at some time, one of the firearms is either going to break, get stolen, or lost. By using the same ammo in both, I continue to have a large stockpile of ammo no matter which is gone.

You'd starve due to lack of fat in your diet, somewhere along the line.

Mosin/Nagant M44

Not sure about the pistol, but something in 10mm

Kuhkri and K-Bar(partialy serated)

No scope?

Long gun: AR-15
Handgun: Desert Eagle (not for looks. It IS a big game weapon which is useful in this scenario.)
Knives: Lightsaber. Ok, if not that a finely balanced and durable rapier, and a nodachi.

Preferably, if possible, I'd get a rapier with a very advanced alloy to be nigh unbreakable.

I would sail back to France too. Would use my guns to take over (no bullets needed). Just pointing them in the general direction of its citizens will make them run. That way I can just walk in to the kings palace and set up shop. First order would be to rename France to its Roman name of Gaul. Sounds better. Then I would slap some sense into the population. Train them to not run at gunfire and loud explosions. Then show them how to aim and shoot properly. Then go on a rampage and take over mainland Europe. Wait.... I think this was done in Frances history once. Hmmm well maybe because of my height I can see whats going on better and not loose at waterloo.

You are a troll, and are the newest addition to my ignore list. GJ.

Yes. That's where I got this from. I'm a regular reader. He doesn't go by his name anymore because he's lost jobs due to Hoplophobes Googling his site. It's now the "Gun Guy" but still the "Nation of Riflemen".

As for me I'ld go for a

1)Marlin model 60 .22 bold action rifle
2) .22 revolver

Bushmaster Knife
Skinning knife
I think you're on the right track with smaller calibers. During Desert Storm, I packed away as much ammo as I could. It was heavy. I think I'd use the small caliber stuff, too, but I wonder if the .17 HMR rounds wouldn't be a little better. They only give up a little mass, but have a higher muzzle velocity than the .22 stuff and speed does kill. I haven't seen one, but I have to think that there is a .17 caliber pistol out there.

What season do we start in, and why are we given nothing to hold water in?

Assuming people don't just assume you pulled it out of your ass.

Indeed, but the veracity of the map will speak for itself once you either explain its workings to a cartographer or redraft in an appropriate contemporary style and then start to show that it does indeed correctly show the topography in any direction people care to go.

You are a troll, and are the newest addition to my ignore list. GJ.

Only trolling for you. But truth hurts dont it.

What season do we start in, and why are we given nothing to hold water in?
I think you're going to winter over somewhere. The wagon trains out of Missouri that followed the Oregon trail would always leave in the Spring. I think they usually made it before Winter, but not always. Leaving from the Atlantic coast would double the time requried. You could head through the desert southwest, but then you'd have big water problems.

Crossing America
By: The Gun Guy
January 19, 2003 02:56pm

The Challenge:

You have the opportunity to go back in time, arriving on the east coast of North America circa 1650, and your goal is to cross the North American continent, taking as much time as you need. When/if you reach the Pacific coastline, you?ll be transported back to the present day.

Your equipment for this journey will be as follows (taken back in the time capsule with you):
-- enough gold to buy provisions for the first five days? travel
-- a small backpack containing some clothing essentials
-- a winter coat, raincoat and boots
-- waterproof sleeping bag
-- ONE long gun (and 800 rounds, but no scope)
-- ONE handgun (and 1,000 rounds)
-- TWO knives
-- an axe
-- a box of 1,000 ?strike anywhere? waterproof matches
-- a topological map, binoculars and a compass
-- and a U.S. Army First Aid kit.

Once there, you?ll be given a horse, a mule and a dog?and apart from that, you?re on your own. Remember you?ll be traveling through deep woods, open prairie, desert and mountains. You may encounter hostile Indian tribes and dangerous animals en route, which should be considered when you answer the following questions :
1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
2. What handgun?
3. Which knives?


My Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45-70 for the rifle.
My Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44 Magnum for the pistol.

It's far more important that I have a repeating rifle suitable for hunting any animal up to the size of buffalo. And that it be reliable under all weather conditions. The pistol is also far more rugged than any semiautomatic.

Ruggedness and reliability under extreme climate conditions is far more important than any other factor for me.

Knives:
Kershaw Majesty (skinning and caping knife)

Gransfors Bruks Scandanivian Forest Axe

You get a modern steel axe. The question Vegas wants answered is "why no choice/explanation" for said axe.

Gerber hand/field axe?
Double-bitted felling axe?
Hunter's skinning axe?
Throwing axe?
Gimli's LoTR/Helm's Deep (R)(C)(TM) War Axe?

etc.

Did you ever gut a deer and take off its pelt with an axe before ?

Did you ever gut a deer and take off its pelt with an axe before ?

I have several axes, and yes, one of them is a skinning axe, and I've used it.

It's far handier for some tasks than a knife. Especially when you want to section the animal for easy carrying.

I have several axes, and yes, one of them is a skinning axe, and I've used it.

It's far handier for some tasks than a knife. Especially when you want to section the animal for easy carrying.

Then I would have to have one or two .

I have several axes, and yes, one of them is a skinning axe, and I've used it.

It's far handier for some tasks than a knife. Especially when you want to section the animal for easy carrying.


I have a set of large/small Ulus with stag handles my Father brought me back from Alaska. Razor sharp and very effective for skinning, chopping.
Similar to an axe without a handle.

Then I would have to have one or two .

You have to make sure you get a decent, handmade Swedish axe. They sharpen up quite well.

Gransfors are the best.

You'll also need an axe if you plan on dealing with any firewood. Unless you plan on never making a fire with anything bigger than a few small branches.

You have to make sure you get a decent, handmade Swedish axe. They sharpen up quite well.

Gransfors are the best.

You'll also need an axe if you plan on dealing with any firewood. Unless you plan on never making a fire with anything bigger than a few small branches.

I kinda figured on comming accross an axe or two either by trading for it or as a spoil of combat . :D But having a nice custom axe in my kit ...especially if I am NOT paying for it ...cant be a bad thing .. ;)

Did you ever gut a deer and take off its pelt with an axe before ?
I've done lumbejacking competitions where I was required to shave wityh a double-bitted felling axe.

I think many of y'all are operating under a few misconceptions of the North American continent in 1650.

#1: Whites have not yet pissed-off most of the Amerind Tribes. Most tribes would NOT act hostile towards a lone traveler with a Dog, Mule & Horse - in fact, they would likely share meat.

Combat, if required, would be best served with "Shock and Awe". Here a pump shotgun is #1. Likewise, all firearms of the period are smoothbore, inaccurate and using bad powder. ANY modern firearm - including a shotgun - would be a "tack driver" in comparison. Six heavy .45 rounds and a bit of BB&buck work will terrify/destroy all but a trained Army... and even then, a 1650's Army might rout.

#2: Most Game in NA in the late 1600's are fat, stupid and unhabituated to humans. everything is in range of a shotgun/Black Powder. Decent Fowling requires a shotgun. Small game are snarable by the dozens. Big bullets mean fewer problems with Big Bears & other critters.

My Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45-70 for the rifle.
My Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44 Magnum for the pistol.

It's far more important that I have a repeating rifle suitable for hunting any animal up to the size of buffalo. And that it be reliable under all weather conditions. The pistol is also far more rugged than any semiautomatic.

Ruggedness and reliability under extreme climate conditions is far more important than any other factor for me.Agreed, but see above. My Mossberg has very few parts. Ditto the Ruger. The problem in these scenerios will always be consumables. If allowed, I would even sacrifice another 10lb bag of Hard #00 Buck for 10lbs of #209 primers - the only (consumable) thing I can't make/buy in 1650 (besides shotgun hulls - but I'll recover them & reuse as long as possible). (I can make percussion caps, but its a PITA)

Do the Gold Fields of California count as "Auto Return Pacific Coastline"? I don't think the Spaniards are in Cali in 1650... If not, can I stay a while? I have a little panning to do before coming home... :D
It had been somewhat explored a century before, and there had been a couple of unsuccessful settlements in the peninsula. The real effort would start a few years later, but nothing too permanent would be there until the late 18th C.

This, of course, if you don't count the natives.

I kinda figured on comming accross an axe or two either by trading for it or as a spoil of combat . :D
Lousy, soft steel. Combat unlikely unless you start it.

1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
Ok, let's think logically. The possible scenarios for using this gun would be hunting or defensive shooting against opponents not armed with firearms.

For this kind of thing, I wouldn't need excessively long range, so high caliber rifles are an overkill. A high capacity magazine is desirable, but not overly necessery. I'm supposed to be on my own for a long time, so primary feature should be reliability. This rules out ALL semi-autos, even AK47. I'd only take the guns that can keep shooting even if an ammo round happened to not ignite. That leaves either pump or lever (bolt too slow for combat). The ammo should be as universal and possible, suitable for maximum hunting options. Which leaves me two options:

1)Mossberg 550 12-gauge shotgun (the 9-shot model)- can hunt fowl AND medium to big game.

2)A .357 Magnum carbine. Can hunt small and medium game. Preferably an IMI Timberwolf pump-action, but failing that, A Winchester 94 lever gun.

The choice of .357 Magnum over "true" rifle calibers is aimed mostly to simplify logistics- if my long gun and my handgun fire the same ammo, I will have 1800 rounds for EACH one of them, depending on which is more useful in the situation in question.


2. What handgun?
Definitely a .357 Magnum revolver. A Taurus Tracker from their Total Titanium series should be fine, failing that a Ruger GP100. Reliability trumps all. .357 Magnum is powerful enough for most dangerous animals except perhaps lions, tigers and the larger species of bears. And even for those, 6-7 Magnum bullets in rapid succession should do the job.


3. Which knives?
A machete and a Finnish ranger knife.

Another weapon I would add to the list is a good slingshot with some steel balls. Could well serve as a replacement for a .22LR gun as a small game hunting weapon.

Wait.... I think this was done in Frances history once. Hmmm well maybe because of my height I can see whats going on better and not loose at waterloo.
obviously a dig at Napolean for his height (or lack thereof), one problem with this is that he was not short, he was 5'7", which was above average height for France (and Europe in general) at the time (average height was 5'6").

1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
2. What handgun?
3. Which knives?
I'm not really a "gun nut" but I do like guns.

I'd bring an M-14
A taurus 8 shot .357 magnum*
A Ka Bar and a buck knife with a 3.5 inch blade

So what's the verdict? Do I survive?

*http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976307706.htm

Ok, let's think logically. The possible scenarios for using this gun would be hunting or defensive shooting against opponents not armed with firearms.

For this kind of thing, I wouldn't need excessively long range, so high caliber rifles are an overkill. A high capacity magazine is desirable, but not overly necessery. I'm supposed to be on my own for a long time, so primary feature should be reliability. This rules out ALL semi-autos, even AK47. I'd only take the guns that can keep shooting even if an ammo round happened to not ignite. That leaves either pump or lever (bolt too slow for combat). The ammo should be as universal and possible, suitable for maximum hunting options. Which leaves me two options:

1)Mossberg 550 12-gauge shotgun (the 9-shot model)- can hunt fowl AND medium to big game.
<snip>.YAY! Someone agrees with me! :D

YAY! Someone agrees with me! :D
Well of course. Reliable, versatile, fast-firing and plenty lethal. Lacks range somewhat, but you're not going there for a sniper job.

But what do people think of the .357 handgun+carbine idea?

Well of course. Reliable, versatile, fast-firing and plenty lethal. Lacks range somewhat, but you're not going there for a sniper job.

But what do people think of the .357 handgun+carbine idea?

You could get a lever action in 44 Mag, and a pistol in 44 Mag.

357 is marginal on deer. It's ok for smaller critters.

Well of course. Reliable, versatile, fast-firing and plenty lethal. Lacks range somewhat, but you're not going there for a sniper job.Oh, I dunno. A properly tuned Mossberg with Slug can do yomans duty at 200 yds. With the .50 Muzzle Loader barrel, It's even better.
But what do people think of the .357 handgun+carbine idea?
If you look at my original post I included such an option, though I opted for .44 and a O/U Double Ruger Red Label (such conversions exist).

I would still prefer to be able to cast & load my own. With Hull reuse and a Shotgun & massive #s of primers, I can do just that - even if I have to use field-dried Backpack Black. Consumables are a bitch.

You could get a lever action in 44 Mag, and a pistol in 44 Mag.

357 is marginal on deer. It's ok for smaller critters.
.357 is "marginal" for a "humane" instant kill demanded by the modern hunting laws, and out of a short revolver barrel. Out of a 20 inch carbine barrel, the .357 picks up so much velocity that it is more than enough for a deer out to 100 yards or so.

.44 Magnum is also an option. It's great for the carbine, but in a combat or close-up fight situation it is not as easy to control in a handgun. Rapid fire with a .44 is not the most pleasant of experiences ;)

Oh, I dunno. A properly tuned Mossberg with Slug can do yomans duty at 200 yds.
200 yards??? I can believe 100, 150 yards at most, with sabot slugs- but 200???


I would still prefer to be able to cast & load my own. With Hull reuse and a Shotgun & massive #s of primers, I can do just that - even if I have to use field-dried Backpack Black. Consumables are a bitch.
How about making your own gunpowder too? ;)

P.S. Do you think our Mossbergs could work with primitive black powder one could theoretically make if one happened upon some sulfur and potassium nitrate?

My Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45-70 for the rifle.

Use the Alaskan Variant from Wild West Guns in .457 Alaskan. http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot_And_Guide_Rifles/body_copilot_and_guide_rifles.html
Will shoot/feed .457 Alaskan Wildcat, .45-70 and .410 shot.

It at least gives you a little bird capability...

With the amount of ammunition given, if you're in a situationt that requires more rounds than that, you're in more trouble than your firearms will get you out of.

I wouldn't be planning on reloading. Besides, they didn't give us any reloading tools.

200 yards??? I can believe 100, 150 yards at most, with sabot slugs- but 200???I have an article where one was tuned by a PD as a sniper "rifle". I'm not saying I would want to do that in this case, but it is possible.
How about making your own gunpowder too? ;)Been there done that. Actually make my own variant of "golden" powder. slightly less fouling and a bit more pressure but harder to ignite. Works great in modern inline guns (like the Mossberg black-powder barrel (http://mossberg.com/pcatalog/muzzleload.htm)).
P.S. Do you think our Mossbergs could work with primitive black powder one could theoretically make if one happened upon some sulfur and potassium nitrate?Absolutely. Nitrates come from the white crystals found under dried bovine (buffalo) dung. Sulfer, while needing a bit of refining, is not too hard to find. - but that is why I asked for 20lbs of 777. :D

Before leaving I would mark my topo with historical "first finds" (surface deposits) of needed minerals/materials like Sulfer & lead.

With the amount of ammunition given, if you're in a situationt that requires more rounds than that, you're in more trouble than your firearms will get you out of.

I wouldn't be planning on reloading. Besides, they didn't give us any reloading tools.The scenerio did not give a time limit on the trip. It could conceivably be many many years. Many small incidents and hunting = lots of ammo needed.

But, I don't need tools for BP pistols & Shotguns. All you need is a decapper. (and moulds) :D

I like the flexibility I have with modern black powder guns. Besides, look at my loadout.

Don't need tools for BP & Shotguns. All you need is a decapper. :D

I like the flexibility I have with modern black powder guns. Besides, look at my loadout.

Don't you need a crimping tool and a powder measure for shotguns? And new wads?

Don't you need a crimping tool and a powder measure for shotguns? And new wads?
Wads can be improvised. Powder measure unnecessary with Black. Consistency of volume is all that matters. Crimping with your thumb is a pain, but can be done.

I have an article where one was tuned by a PD as a sniper "rifle". I'm not saying I would want to do that in this case, but it is possible.
Hmm, now when you mention it, I do recall that the Israeli army EOD teams use a bolt-action Mossberg 695 shotgun with rifled barrel and sabot slugs as a short-range (100-130 meter) EOD destroying tool.


Been there done that. Actually make my own variant of "golden" powder. slightly less fouling and a bit more pressure but harder to ignite. Works great in modern inline guns (like the Mossberg black-powder barrel (http://mossberg.com/pcatalog/muzzleload.htm)).
Absolutely. Nitrates come from the white crystals found under dried bovine (buffalo) dung. Sulfer, while needing a bit of refining, is not too hard to find. - but that is why I asked for 20lbs of 777. :D
Sweet. I'll need that black-powder barrel too, then. :)

Another idea: what about packing a modern, disassembling compound bow?

<snip>
Another idea: what about packing a modern, disassembling compound bow?
Consumables problem again. Any arrow you could make/fletch in the field in 1650 would explode under Compound Bow acceleration. A good recurve crossbow OTOH...

Consumables problem again. Any arrow you could make/fletch in the field in 1650 would explode under Compound Bow acceleration. A good recurve crossbow OTOH...
Ah, didn't think about that. But I suppose a decent bow wouldn't be difficult to make- or better yet, to buy from the tribes.

Speaking of which: the one thing no one here has put into their luggage yet is items for trade. Come on people, this is an inhabited place we're talking about. If you happen upon a tribe, you'll need to win their favor with some presents, perhaps barter with them for food and stuff, maybe even hire helpers or buy a slave (to release him, of course, so he would follow you as a free companion)- and who knows, maybe even a little something for that beautiful tribal girl who will be willing to host you for a night ;)

Ah, didn't think about that. But I suppose a decent bow wouldn't be difficult to make- or better yet, to buy from the tribes.

Speaking of which: the one thing no one here has put into their luggage yet is items for trade. Come on people, this is an inhabited place we're talking about. If you happen upon a tribe, you'll need to win their favor with some presents, perhaps barter with them for food and stuff, maybe even hire helpers or buy a slave (to release him, of course, so he would follow you as a free companion)- and who knows, maybe even a little something for that beautiful tribal girl who will be willing to host you for a night ;)
You trade furs - #1 comodity. You will be the biggest bad-ass hunter around - bar none. When in white areas you trade knowledge (info on topo, for starters). Most white/future knowledge would be useless/senseless to the Amerinds but a little bit could make you quite wealthy (in terms of gear) before leaving a white settlement. Buy a pissload cheap (to modern eyes) steel knives/axes and trade them to the Amerinds.

Pack a couple of simple chemistry texts, along with texts on how to produce things like sulfuric acid and stainless steel. For that matter, knowledge on how to make a simple power plant would be invaluable.

Sweet. I'll need that black-powder barrel too, then. :)
It works amazingly well, and at less than $200 it's quite a bargain.

My fav. load is a 360gr MINIE from Black Jack Hill casters in Florida (http://blackjackhill.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=28) pushed by 80-100gr 3f 777. Snap-shoot accurate to 100yds, rested to 200, iron sights. Reloads fast.

Biggest problem is buying one. They are made in small batches and usually have a wait time. Best bet is Mavrick Arms (link from Mossberg).

There is actually a custom 5-shot conversion for the Ruger Old Army (http://www.clementscustomguns.com/handguns/ruger.htm) that makes it into a .50. If I had that, I would probably shoot 320gr REALs (http://blackjackhill.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=26) in both - that way I would need only one mould.

You trade furs - #1 comodity. You will be the biggest bad-ass hunter around - bar none. When in white areas you trade knowledge (info on topo, for starters). Most white/future knowledge would be useless/senseless to the Amerinds but a little bit could make you quite wealthy (in terms of gear) before leaving a white settlement. Buy a pissload cheap (to modern eyes) steel knives/axes and trade them to the Amerinds.
I don't think knowledge of this kind would have been much of a commodity. Don't forget the arrogance of the settlers, and them not knowing that you are from the future. They were superstitious and not particularly educated lot.

Perhaps tradeable useful items not avaliable back then would have been a good choice. Common magnifying glass, for instance, would cost insane amount of valuables and be in high demand by both the craftsmen, the educated nobles and the common hunter (starting fires and what not). Medicaments against preventable common diseases would cost even more. Mechanical flashlights, wrist watches- hey, just IMAGINE how well porn pics would sell back then! :D

Pack a couple of simple chemistry texts, along with texts on how to produce things like sulfuric acid and stainless steel. For that matter, knowledge on how to make a simple power plant would be invaluable.
Read 1632 (and the rest of the series) by Eric Flint (available HERE (http://www.baen.com/library/0671319728/0671319728.htm) at the baen free library (http://www.baen.com/library/).)

The premise is that an entire apalacian town gets teleported to 1632 Thurngia just before Gustav Adolphus appears. Very interesting. Coal-mining, Union Hillbillies fighting the 30 years War on the side of Gustav Adolphus II...

I don't think knowledge of this kind would have been much of a commodity. Don't forget the arrogance of the settlers, and them not knowing that you are from the future. They were superstitious and not particularly educated lot.

Perhaps tradeable useful items not avaliable back then would have been a good choice. Common magnifying glass, for instance, would cost insane amount of valuables and be in high demand by both the craftsmen, the educated nobles and the common hunter (starting fires and what not). Medicaments against preventable common diseases would cost even more. Mechanical flashlights, wrist watches- hey, just IMAGINE how well porn pics would sell back then! :D
The settlements of the 1650s were not particularly "wealthy" in the terms of money. They WOULD, however love to know where useful mineral deposits were - like the coal & iron bands in Pennsylvania - where a large percentage of settelers were in 1650. Likewise, black powder tech was still pretty rancid. Corning hadn't really come into vogue, and people hadn't learned how to make good clean sulfer & nitrates.

Basic Medical skills would make you a God - or get you burned as a Witch. You would certainly be burned for having Porn.

USMC M40A1 (.308 Win) wood stock replaced with McMillan fiberglass stock
Colt M-1911 A1 (.45 ACP)

Ka-bar U.S.M.C. (ka1217)
Ka-bar Game Hook Hunter (ka1441)(have to have one with a gut hook)

Zippo, zippo fluid and flints for it.
And if I could, I would also take a HK MP-5A3s (9mm)


Candy and unlined paper for trade.

The settlements of the 1650s were not particularly "wealthy" in the terms of money.
But you don't come to them for money. You come to them for horses, smithing jobs and materials.


They WOULD, however love to know where useful mineral deposits were - like the coal & iron bands in Pennsylvania - where a large percentage of settelers were in 1650.
They certainly would, yes. But what would they say about your mysterious foreknowledge of such things? ;)


Likewise, black powder tech was still pretty rancid. Corning hadn't really come into vogue, and people hadn't learned how to make good clean sulfer & nitrates.
Yep, true.


Basic Medical skills would make you a God - or get you burned as a Witch. You would certainly be burned for having Porn.
You would risk getting burned for an awful lot of stuff you carry with you and on you, for that matter. Personally, I would do my best to keep to the Indians rather than to the whites- the Indians wouldn't be surprised by any wonder coming from a white man, those of them familiar with the white men were accustomed to the whites having or knowing all kind of strange stuff.

<snip>They certainly would, yes. But what would they say about your mysterious foreknowledge of such things? ;)I would just sell them a hand-drawn map to a place I "discovered".
You would risk getting burned for an awful lot of stuff you carry with you and on you, for that matter. Most of which could be concealed in your pack train until leaving white areas. Just look & dress the part. (edit - oh, and a shotgun could be explained away as a new Continental Style blunderbus... until you have to kill a mob with it.) Personally, I would do my best to keep to the Indians rather than to the whites- the Indians wouldn't be surprised by any wonder coming from a white man, those of them familiar with the white men were accustomed to the whites having or knowing all kind of strange stuff.You have to start somewhere, and you have to provision before heading out into the unknown. Personally, I would be buying more processed lead shot (1650s=soft lead), probably in #00 equivilent to be used in BB/Buck loads and as casting fodder.

Long gun, M14, handgun, in between the .357 Desert Eagle or .45 Colt 1911, knife, it's going to be a decent Bowie (Not one of the saw backed stainless steel jokes they sell all over these days) and maybe an Arkansas toothpick, both well sharpened.

Als, I'd probably, just probably want a decent map of a few of the places I'd be going through. I'm not Lewis or Clark, after all.

Long gun, M14, handgun, in between the .357 Desert Eagle or .45 Colt 1911, knife, it's going to be a decent Bowie (Not one of the saw backed stainless steel jokes they sell all over these days) and maybe an Arkansas toothpick, both well sharpened.

Als, I'd probably, just probably want a decent map of a few of the places I'd be going through. I'm not Lewis or Clark, after all.

In that case, I want the GPS satellites brought back in time with me, and I get a GPS and plenty of batteries.

Long gun, M14, handgun, in between the .357 Desert Eagle or .45 Colt 1911, knife, it's going to be a decent Bowie (Not one of the saw backed stainless steel jokes they sell all over these days) and maybe an Arkansas toothpick, both well sharpened.

Als, I'd probably, just probably want a decent map of a few of the places I'd be going through. I'm not Lewis or Clark, after all.
You have a good topo & compass. Beyond that, most modern maps will be relatively useless.

I'm really interested in why so many people think military arms would be the best choice. In all likelyhood, you would be more apt to need to fight off crazed Euro settlers trying to run you out of town/burn you at the stake than Amerinds, and in either case a scattergun is the better choice.

Hunting will be brutally simple from high, unhunted population and little fear of Euros/lone mounted hunters. (as late as the 1880s it was not unheard of for a lone hunter to get within snap-shooting range with a Winchester 1876 and drop 4 Bull Elk as fast as he could shoot. Somthing not physically possible today)

With a box-fed pump shotgun (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=21571&title=SIDEWINDER+MAGAZINE+CONVERSION+KIT) you would so out-gun everything in the world that anything else more specialized would be pointless.

With a box-fed pump shotgun (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=21571&title=SIDEWINDER+MAGAZINE+CONVERSION+KIT) you would so out-gun everything in the world that anything else more specialized would be pointless.
Sidewinder... Wouldn't it upset the shotgun's balance? It seems to be mounted a bit sideways...

I'd take the normal Mossberg with a 9 shot underbarrel tube magazine. In this kind of long-term lone survival scenario, a detachable magazine is just another thing to go wrong on a weapon. With nine shots and rapid fire you will outgun anything and everything in the 17th century anyway. Just don't challenge whole armies or whole tribes for a firefight.

handgun, in between the .357 Desert Eagle or .45 Colt 1911
What's the deal with picking the Desert Eagle? If you want a revolver caliber gun, take a revolver, for crying out loud. Desert Eagle sucks in the reliability department, is too heavy to carry and a pain to maintain. A good revolver will withstand lots of abuse and neglect and will still shoot every time.

Sidewinder... Wouldn't it upset the shotgun's balance? It seems to be mounted a bit sideways...

I'd take the normal Mossberg with a 9 shot underbarrel tube magazine. In this kind of long-term lone survival scenario, a detachable magazine is just another thing to go wrong on a weapon. With nine shots and rapid fire you will outgun anything and everything in the 17th century anyway. Just don't challenge whole armies or whole tribes for a firefight.
Yeah, I suppose. I was thinking about it, and unloading 6-9 shells into a mob would terrify them plenty long to refill the tube. I do like the 6rd box tho. Doesn't upset the ballance and lets me hot-swap loads as needed.

First off, forget the handgun. A rifle is effective out to a much farther range, and for close-up, a rifle is just as good, plus it’s better to smack someone with the butt of a rifle than to pistol-whip them. Just give me the extra ammo, and speaking of which, I don’t care what kind of round you’re packing, that’s a helluva lot of weight in ammo.

You’ve got the clothing covered, but I’d choose a military-style rucksack instead of the backpack.

By waterproof sleeping bag, I assume you mean a bivvy sack. Rather than that, a poncho and a regular sleeping bag with which to make a hooch would be preferable. However, you could conceivably make it with just a blanket or two.

An axe? I’ll take a hatchet, thanks, with a metal rather than wooden haft.

Only a pussy needs matches to start a fire. A large flint and steel will do if you know anything about woodsmanship.

A compass and binocular would be great, but I doubt a map would do you much good.

An Army First aid kid doesn’t include much, unless you’re talking about that bag field medics carry. I’d take my own.

As to the rifle, I’ll take a SOCOM 16, chambered in 7.62 NATO, with a few 10-round magazines. A pistol would be superfluous.

In the knife department, I’d take a Ka-bar and a skinning knife. However, I’d gladly trade the skinning knife for a whetstone.

Heh heh, so many people have selected Ka-Bars. What's everyone's favorite model? Serrated or unserated? :)

Heh heh, so many people have selected Ka-Bars. What's everyone's favorite model? Serrated or unserated? :)
I've never owned a serrated Ka bar. I prefer non-serrated knives as a rule though. While they may not be as sharp out of the box as serrated blades they're easier for me to keep sharpen.

First off, forget the handgun. A rifle is effective out to a much farther range, and for close-up, a rifle is just as good, plus it’s better to smack someone with the butt of a rifle than to pistol-whip them. <snip>Except that carrying a long gun to a parlez or into the town hall could cause a bit of consternation. Handguns can are at least be unobtrusive. Also, there are times where a handgun is particularly usefull... like when you need to shoot the bear that has dragged your sleeping bag just out of reach of your long gun. :eek: (mmm tasty human burrito)

Yeah, I suppose. I was thinking about it, and unloading 6-9 shells into a mob would terrify them plenty long to refill the tube. I do like the 6rd box tho. Doesn't upset the ballance and lets me hot-swap loads as needed.

Why not just choose a Valtro PM5 then? 7 round mags, top folding stock?

Why not just choose a Valtro PM5 then? 7 round mags, top folding stock?
'cause I couldn't use my my Mossberg muzzleloading barrel...

Statistics:

1. Responses: There were a total of 192 total usable responses, very few of which observed the 100-word per-choice limit. Thanks, guys.

2. Categories: There were several major groups of response, broadly speaking:
-- medium-caliber rifle, small-caliber handgun
-- large-caliber rifle, small-caliber handgun
-- shotgun/drilling long gun, small-caliber handgun
-- small-caliber rifle, large-caliber handgun
-- medium-caliber rifle, medium-caliber handgun (sharing the same ammo type)

3. Not that old-fashioned: only a few people (6%) chose either a blackpowder musket/rifle, or a single-shot rifle/handgun.

4. Rifle types: we had the following major breakdowns:
-- 34% chose a bolt-action rifle, Springfield ?03 (.30-06) and SMLE (.303) being the most popular
-- 22% picked a lever action, the preferred option by far being either a large-caliber handgun cartridge (.44 Mag) or the .45-70 Govt
-- 16% decided on a semi-auto rifle, the M1 Garand being the overwhelming preference
-- 16% thought a shotgun would be the best long-gun choice, all giving the variety of ammo (buckshot, birdshot, slugs etc.) as giving them the most flexibility.5. Rifle calibers were fairly decisive:
-- 60% picked a medium caliber (.30-cal, like .30-06, .303, .308, 7.62x39mm or the handgun .357Mag)
-- Even the 27% who picked ?large? calibers, chose calibers that weren?t that large: .44 Mag or .45-70 Govt. were the most popular.6. Long gun surprises:
-- the .30-30 garnered only two supporters
-- only eleven people picked ?modern? rifle types, like Winchester 70, Remington 700 and Savage
-- most bolt-action supporters picked older rifle types: Mauser 98, SMLE, Springfield ?03
-- NOBODY picked a magnumthumpenblitzenboomer caliber (.300 Win Mag, .338 Win Mag, .460 Weatherby etc) except for one maniac who chose: ?One of those WWII African survival (Luftwaffe?) drillings (9.3x74mm?almost H&H ballistics!?under two 12 ga. barrels!)?
-- lever-action brands were overwhelmingly Winchester, and one Marlin
-- only 6% picked a ?drilling? (one rifle barrel under a double-barrel shotgun).7. Handgun types: People had little doubt about this one:
-- 71% picked a revolver: S&W was easily #1 (although I probably influenced the response with my pick of the 10-shot 617), Ruger gave a good account of themselves with the Single-Six and Vaquero, and Colt was almost nowhere to be found
-- 25% chose a semi-auto (with the Ruger Mk II .22LR being the near-unanimous choice in small-caliber)
-- The rest picked a single-shot handgun, of the Thompson/Center Contender type.
-- A few people said they didn?t need a handgun, and would just take more rifle ammo instead.8. Handgun caliber options::
-- 46% picked a large-caliber (.40 or larger) handgun, with revolvers like the Ruger Vaquero beating out semi-autos like the Glock/H&K/1911 handsomely
-- 39% decided that a .22LR handgun would do the job, split about 60:40 for revolver/semi-auto
-- 14% thought a medium caliber like .38/.357 would do the job, and most of these people chose a lever-action rifle of identical caliber as a companion piece.9. Knives: Most people picked two kinds of knife: a large skinning knife, and a ?toolkit? knife (Swiss Army or Leatherman). A couple of people compromised on the large knife (arguing that the axe could perform all the heavy jobs), and chose instead their favorite folding knife and a toolkit knife. Only a few people eschewed the toolkit knife altogether, settling for a machete- or kukri-style knife and a smaller skinner. The favorite knives were, in order: Cold Steel kukri, Puma Waidblatt (doubtless because of my endorsement) and the K-Bar USMC fighting knife.



For those that seriously replied, at first glance it looks as if the figures are pretty close to the original.

Oh, I dunno. A properly tuned Mossberg with Slug can do yomans duty at 200 yds. With the .50 Muzzle Loader barrel, It's even better.

If you look at my original post I included such an option, though I opted for .44 and a O/U Double Ruger Red Label (such conversions exist).

I would still prefer to be able to cast & load my own. With Hull reuse and a Shotgun & massive #s of primers, I can do just that - even if I have to use field-dried Backpack Black. Consumables are a bitch.

Give me a couple months with a decent gunsmith from the era and I'll have a fine weapon or weapons and a friend for life . I'll also be quite wealthy if I deide to stay for a couple years and be able to afford a decent crew to keep me company accross the continent .

I would like to change from an AK-47 to an HK69. I would pick the XM25, but there are no scopes allowed for long guns...

The ammo will be heavy as hell, but once I make it to France, I can put most of it in a safe place.

ak-47 and a colt .45. no, scratch that, a .454 hellsing armoury semi-auto casull. get to the georgias, find my tribal roots, and teach them how to route the white devil from our shores!

"ho-ka hey! it is a good day to die! brave hearts, strong hearts to the front. cowards and weak hearts to the rear."
-Crazy Horse, Lokota Sioux, Battle of the Greasy Grass

For those that seriously replied, at first glance it looks as if the figures are pretty close to the original.
No they weren't. I think only one person here chose a .22LR handgun. Choosing revolvers was relatively rare, most went for semi-autos, sometimes even when choosing revolver calibers (at least two people chose Desert Eagles :rolleyes: ), and more people opted for a semi-auto rifle than for a bolt action one.

No they weren't. I think only one person here chose a .22LR handgun. Choosing revolvers was relatively rare, most went for semi-autos, sometimes even when choosing revolver calibers (at least two people chose Desert Eagles :rolleyes: ), and more people opted for a semi-auto rifle than for a bolt action one.
Well, for the record, I did choose (as my "B" choice) the US equivilent of a Drilling with the Red Label Over/Under dual caliber conversion...

Crossing America
By: The Gun Guy
January 19, 2003 02:56pm


1. What long gun would you take back in time with you?
2. What handgun?
3. Which knives?


I am not a gun nut, and actually I am strongly for gun control, but this is good fun, so I'll answer.

1. An AK-101 with grenade launcher attachment (I don't know if that could be done...maybe)
2. A Sig Sauer p293 with 150 hollowpoint rounds.
3. A switchblade and a U.S. army knife.

Rifle: Military Model M107 Semi Automatic Ten Round .50 Caliber Rifle from Barrett Arms (http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifles.htm).

Handgun: .45 cal, M1911a1 (http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/systems/dvic529.jpg)

Knives:

1. Bowie BO-547 (http://knivesknivesknives.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_98&products_id=623&osCsid=a78c45b474d7996abdce208c925d54d6) 12 5/8" overall. 7 3/4" 420 stainless steel blade is 1/4" thick. European walnut handle with brass "S" style guard and lanyard hole. Full tang construction. Western style leather sheath.

2. SwissChamp XLT (http://www.victorinox.com/newsite/en/produkte/index.htm) 1.6795.XLT with 50 features

:D

Rifle: Military Model M107 Semi Automatic Ten Round .50 Caliber Rifle from Barrett Arms (http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifles.htm).:D
I take it you like your meat tar-tar? ;)

Give me a couple months with a decent gunsmith from the era and I'll have a fine weapon or weapons and a friend for life . I'll also be quite wealthy if I deide to stay for a couple years and be able to afford a decent crew to keep me company accross the continent .
#1: Steel of the era is shit. Barrels are most often welded or damascus - if not brass.

Assuming you could make a good caplock or inline, you won't have a "fine" weapon until you upgrade the steel production capability significantly - even then you would still only have a muzzle-loader since turning/drawing brass cartridges takes good steel machinery.

#2: Powder is shit. There is only so much you can do with Black. Golden takestoo much fire to ignite with even a magnum percussion cap. You need at least a magnum #209 to set it off consistently. Also, see #1. Any powder generating decent pressures will kill the shooter.

#3: Bullet Casting is shit. Iron moulds for round ball. You will have to turn into a steel block with a few hardened steel bits to get a good conical - that or develop the aluminium industry.

Change that to 10 Years and you might be able to make a falling block or break over double breechloader that uses hand-turned brass cartridges. Maybe.

I would say a pump 12 ga of any sort (bird and bear), a Dan Wesson revolver (pretty sturdy, and their grips are larger than those tiny things on Rugers) in either .44mag (.44 sp) or .357 mag (.38 sp). Just for reliability all around.

Knives? Not so knowledgable about those. :( Pocket and a longer belt knife, probably (one that has those saw teeth on the back).

#1: Steel of the era is shit. Barrels are most often welded or damascus - if not brass.

Assuming you could make a good caplock or inline, you won't have a "fine" weapon until you upgrade the steel production capability significantly - even then you would still only have a muzzle-loader since turning/drawing brass cartridges takes good steel machinery.

#2: Powder is shit. There is only so much you can do with Black. Golden takestoo much fire to ignite with even a magnum percussion cap. You need at least a magnum #209 to set it off consistently. Also, see #1. Any powder generating decent pressures will kill the shooter.

#3: Bullet Casting is shit. Iron moulds for round ball. You will have to turn into a steel block with a few hardened steel bits to get a good conical - that or develop the aluminium industry.

Change that to 10 Years and you might be able to make a falling block or break over double breechloader that uses hand-turned brass cartridges. Maybe.

I can have a good kentucky long rifle or three and I know how to make mini ball's so I can reload that rifle faster than or just as fast as a smooth bore musket . I know about percussion caps and if I have a REALLY good gunsmith I will soon have a black powder cap revolver . I can survive just as well with the same rifles as pistols as they did in that era . Even if I make only small improvements on existing technology .And I'll always have my Springfield and my Ruger as a template along with the ammo to work alongside someone with the smarts to copy them or backwards engineer .
I'm set I'll stay around for years having a ball ..all the hunting fishing and wenching I can ask for ! :D

I take it you like your meat tar-tar? ;)
More or less! LOL!

Actually, I like my meat dead, D E A D ( and my opponents as well )! :D

What??? No more contributions? :(

I would say that if I could sneak another rifle along (like one of those nice collapsable survival rifles), it would be a .22. Squirrels and rabbits are easier to find and take down.

I can have a good kentucky long rifle or three and I know how to make mini ball's so I can reload that rifle faster than or just as fast as a smooth bore musket . I know about percussion caps and if I have a REALLY good gunsmith I will soon have a black powder cap revolver . I can survive just as well with the same rifles as pistols as they did in that era .
Which is largely why I chose the ROA & a Mossberg with aux .50 inline barrel...
Even if I make only small improvements on existing technology .And I'll always have my Springfield and my Ruger as a template along with the ammo to work alongside someone with the smarts to copy them or backwards engineer .
I'm set I'll stay around for years having a ball ..all the hunting fishing and wenching I can ask for ! :D
The problem will still be producing decent steel. The difference between 1650 steel and 1750 steel is huge. By 1850 it's almost a quantum leap. Percussion caps aren't too big a deal as long as you have sheet brass & the knowhow to make fulminates, but it still comes back to steel.