NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4316698.stm


"The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia" - President Bush

I'd just like to hear everyone's take on this. When I read it the first thing I thought was, "Wait, where did he get this from?", but the article doesn't elaborate.

Presumably it's in reference to the desire of the terrorists to impose a new "caliphate" at the expense of the rights, freedoms, and even the lives of everyone else; this would certainly fall under a war against humanity. The terrorists want to embark on a wholesale slaughter of all that oppose them.

I cannot believe I'm saying this, but on this point, Bush is correct. That is their stated goal. He doesn't realize that he's playing into it, however.

Ridiculous.

The only one who has declared war on humanity is me, and I certainly don't pose too much of a threat. As usual, it's just more American propaganda reacting the wrong way with Islamic propaganda. :rolleyes:

Ridiculous.

The only one who has declared war on humanity is me, and I certainly don't pose too much of a threat. As usual, it's just more American propaganda reacting the wrong way with Islamic propaganda. :rolleyes:
I was talking about the caliphate proposition, which is what the quoted portion of Bush's speech references.

But what I understand him to be saying is, if we pull out of Iraq, this will happen which is just lunacy. An empire from Spain to Indonesia? That is a bit farfetched to say the least.

I wasn't aware that those were the militants actual goals. Hadn't heard that.

But what I understand him to be saying is, if we pull out of Iraq, this will happen which is just lunacy. An empire from Spain to Indonesia? That is a bit farfetched to say the least.

I wasn't aware that those were the militants actual goals. Hadn't heard that.
It's only the goal of a few militants. The majority of terrorists have no clearly stated goal, just broad, vague ones, or else they keep changing their goals. The exception to this is nationalistic terrorists who are just as wrong and evil as the internationalist kind, but have one stated goal and stick to a limited geographical area. This caliphate crap as just recruitment propaganda. What the leaders really want is personal political power (IRA, Hamas, al-Sadr?).

And of course, Bush uses their propaganda to sell his own propaganda which is to keep this war-on-whatever of his going forever, along with all the lush no-bid contracts that go with it. Arrogant asses, all of them, on both sides.

The extremests creating a caliphate from Indonesia to Spain.

Bush setting up a working democracy in Iraq.

Two goals that have absolutely no chance of being achieved.

Anyway, Czardas, no, you are not the only one. If you wish, we could join forces and seek out other like minded people. When our goals are largely accomplished, we just fight to the death for supreme overlord ubiquitous. :D

But what I understand him to be saying is, if we pull out of Iraq, this will happen which is just lunacy. An empire from Spain to Indonesia? That is a bit farfetched to say the least.

I wasn't aware that those were the militants actual goals. Hadn't heard that.
You hadn't listened, then.

From the official website (http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/english.html) of Hizb ut-Tahrir, the largest single party in the Islamic world:

The Party, as well, aims at the correct revival of the Ummah through enlightened thought. It also strives to bring her back to her previous might and glory such that she wrests the reins of initiative away from other states and nations, and returns to her rightful place as the first state in the world, as she was in the past, when she governs the world according to the laws of Islam.

It also aims to bring back the Islamic guidance for mankind and to lead the Ummah into a struggle with Kufr [infidel], its systems and its thoughts so that Islam encapsulates the world.

...The political struggle, which is represented by the following:

A struggle against the Kufr colonialist states which have domination and influence on the Islamic countries. The challenge against colonialism in all its intellectual, political, economic and military forms, involves exposing its plans, and revealing its conspiracies in order to deliver the Ummah from its control and to liberate it from any effect of its influence.

A struggle against the rulers in the Arab and Muslim countries, by exposing them, taking them to task, acting to change them whenever they denied the rights of the Ummah or neglected to perform their duty towards her, or ignored any of her affairs, and whenever they disagreed with the rules of Islam, and acting also to remove their regimes so as to establish the Islamic rule in its place.


From Abu Bakar Bashir of the Jemaah Islamiya (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=46), the group behind the Bali bombings:

SA: What can the West, especially the US, do to make the world more peaceful?
ABB: They have to stop fighting Islam. That's impossible because it is sunnatullah [destiny, a law of nature], as Allah has said in the Koran. If they want to have peace, they have to accept to be governed by Islam.

Apparently, unlike most people, Bush has been taking notice.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4316698.stm


"The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia" - President Bush

I'd just like to hear everyone's take on this. When I read it the first thing I thought was, "Wait, where did he get this from?", but the article doesn't elaborate.Meh. I doubt anything of the sort would happen...

I think the Caliphate will be built sooner or latre, because the Muslims will outbreed all the non Muslims. Muslims everywhere from China to the USA to Europe have enormous litters of offspring who will eventually eat up the welfare systems of the world and successfully establish the unified Ummah. Even rich Muslims reproduce wildly, whilst rich people of other ethnic groups tend to have small families.

I think the Caliphate will be built sooner or latre, because the Muslims will outbreed all the non Muslims.
The Chinese would disagree.

The Chinese would disagree.
In China Muslims are totally exempt from the one child policy by virtue of their "minority status" while there are severe taxes and penalty on Han Chinese who wish to have more than one child. Which I think is ridiculous, since the booming Muslim population will just ruin the country.

In China Muslims are allowed to have more than one kid by virtue of their "minority status" while there are severe taxes and penalty on Han Chinese who wish to have more than one child. Which I think is ridiculous, since the booming Muslim population will just ruin the country.
Emphasis mine. 'Cos it's such a wonderful, flawless state right now, eh? Progressing to a shiny, golden utopian future, no doubt.

Yes, perhaps a number of Islamist groups have the stated goal of instituting a Eurasian Caliphate. That doesn't mean we should flock to Bush's side. It's quite possible to find both 'sides' loathsome. 'With us or against us' was bollocks when first stated and it's still bollocks now.

Who says I am a pro Bush neo conservative? Bush is a horrible monster, I also loath Allah, the Koran, Mohammed spit on him, and the general backward attitude of Muslim societies and their disruptive behavior. Also, China is doing somewhat well, governed by the Confucian work ethic. Modern Liberal Democracy will come to China within 50 years. China will experience the same transition from police state to democracy that the similar Confucian cultures of Taiwan and South Korea have experienced. While Muslims such as the Uighur minority in China, waste national resources on their barren desert wasteland of a province, and contribute to the general tensions of the nation with their separatist violence.

Who says I am a pro Bush neo conservative? Bush is a horrible monster, I also loath Allah, the Koran, Mohammed spit on him, and the general backward attitude of Muslim societies and their disruptive behavior. Also, China is doing somewhat well, governed by the Confucian work ethic. Modern Liberal Democracy will come to China within 50 years.While Muslims such as the Uighur minority in China, waste national resources on their barren desert of a province, and contribute to the general tensions of the nation with their separatist violence.
Sorry, my second comment wasn't specifically addressed to you; I should have made this clearer.

I disagree with you over China, but that's another discussion for another time.

:eek: Run for the hills :eek:

Islam....taking over a country near you!

China definitely shows the same trends as its culturally similar neighbors, Taiwan and Soth Korea which both transitioned from brutal police state to modern democracy in the 1980s. Grassroots activism is huge in China, gay rights and environmentalism which have been viewd as Deviant for decades are now very high profile and successfully confrontational with the government. However in nations that evolve into more open minded socieites Muslims repeatedly agitate to repeal the liberalism and disrupt the harmony and tolerance that the rest of the population has worked hard to achieve. Why is it that Muslims burn the Bible with impunity in the Gulf States, but they cause huge riots when a rumor flies around that some US troops pissed on the Koran, or when Salman Rushdie published his Satanic Verses why did crazed MUslims around the world feel compelled to assassinate Rushdie's Norwegian and Japanese publishers among others involved in Rushdie's right to free speech. Even Japan one of the worlds most unique and pure societies is being corrupted by this foreign, lazy Muslim element. Homogenization of the world's precious cultures by MTV is bad but homogenization by the over-populating, hypocritical Islam, a disrespectful religion that is insensitive to any local culture, may be worse. IN China he one child policy needs to be strictly enforced not only on ethnic Chinese but also on the Muslims.