NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

George W Bush claimed that God personally commanded him to invade Iraq. This either means that:

1. Bush is a dangerous fanatic living in a fantasy world, or

2. God is real, but he is a total idiot when it comes to military strategy.

------------------------------

President George W. Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

In Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, a major three-part series on BBC TWO (at 9.00pm on Monday 10, Monday 17 and Monday 24 October), Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

That is some scary and loony shit.

this is teh bush guy america put in office for a second term right, you Americans have just reached a new low in my book.

You forgot #3:

3. The article is total bs.

I assure you, I'm not protecting Bush in any way, but you can't trust everything you read.

That is some scary and loony shit.

^What he said.^

Well I don't put too much faith in hearsay (that's exactly what this is) but that is a bit scary. But I doubt it ever happened. Quite frankly, Bush isn't stupid enough to say something like that, even if he did think it.

That is some scary and loony shit.

if it works, though, it's not bad:

freedom (or more freedom, at least) for Iraqis and Afghanis (except the bad guys -- iraqi insurgents and afghani Taliban, of course) should be seen as a good thing overall.

a palestinian state would be exceptional...

I suppose Palestinian ministers are mainly (if not all) Muslims. Bush is just asking for dismissal.

Well I don't put too much faith in hearsay (that's exactly what this is) but that is a bit scary. But I doubt it ever happened. Quite frankly, Bush isn't stupid enough to say something like that, even if he did think it.

part of his charm is that he is not the most articulate person in the world (a la Emeril on the Food Network)... but it would be rash to underestimate his cognitive abilities.

Like I would believe what a Palestinian minister said.

Like I would believe what a Palestinian minister said.

Yeah, they really are no more credible than a US minister is nowadays. I concede.

it kinda puts the kibosh on the all knowing thing doesn't it

Yeah, they really are no more credible than a US minister is nowadays. I concede.
It would be far more credible if I saw it on video.

This is brilliant, it really is, and it explains an awful lot of Bush's legislation and policy since 2000 :p

That is some scary and loony shit.

:eek: Seconded

___________________
Damn, I wouldn't put it past bush to think it, but i doubt he said it. I dont know what to think, so while i bust my balls at school you guys can have it out, I'll read later :p

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

George W Bush claimed that God personally commanded him to invade Iraq. This either means that:

1. Bush is a dangerous fanatic living in a fantasy world, or

2. God is real, but he is a total idiot when it comes to military strategy.

------------------------------

President George W. Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

In Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, a major three-part series on BBC TWO (at 9.00pm on Monday 10, Monday 17 and Monday 24 October), Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

and number 3. god would be so much more of a strategist than you ever could hope to be, and thats why we dont understand his fool proof plan.

seriously if you people are going to even pretend god exists, give him alot more credit than you do, because its sickening.

I'm not an Arabic speaker, but couldn't this just be a mistranslation? Bush says one thing not involving God, and the nearest immediate translation involves God... hence couldn't Bush not have said it, but the Palestinians have heard it? Just seems that Bush isn't stupid enough to say that, and the Palestinians aren't stupid enough to claim something like that without some backing.

you know gartref i hate it when you post something that SHOULD be some crazy spoof of reality but instead is utterly true

for all you who think that this cant be true. didnt bush say this himself at some point?

I'm not an Arabic speaker, but couldn't this just be a mistranslation? Bush says one thing not involving God, and the nearest immediate translation involves God... hence couldn't Bush not have said it, but the Palestinians have heard it? Just seems that Bush isn't stupid enough to say that, and the Palestinians aren't stupid enough to claim something like that without some backing.

Er, so what would the orginal sentence be? "Dick Cheney told me to invade Iraq" "Oil executives.." "My wife..."?

you know gartref i hate it when you post something that SHOULD be some crazy spoof of reality but instead is utterly true

for all you who think that this cant be true. didnt bush say this himself at some point?

I’d love to see evidence of that. Something, you know, other than hearsay.

Confirmed by another source who was at the meeting.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

-----------------------------------------------

According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

Yeah, I heard that a year or 2 ago.

Scaaaaarrrry.


There's also some more freaky-scary (not sexy or fun) stuff out there....



_______

It calls to mind an interesting observation that an unnamed "senior advisor" to President Bush made to a New York Times Magazine reporter last fall:

The aide said that guys like me [i.e., reporters and commentators] were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

See Ron Suskind, "Without a Doubt," The New York Times Magazine, October 17, 2004.

_______
the above from excerpted from this page
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18034#fnr6

:confused: :( :eek:

"God commanded Bush to invade Iraq."

Hey! I GOT something you can command! :p

Hey! I GOT something you can command! :p

I doubt God himself could command that shriveled old soldier to stand at attention again. :p

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

See Ron Suskind, "Without a Doubt," The New York Times Magazine, October 17, 2004.


Not this "American Empire" crap again. If there is anyone I am LESS likely to believe than a palestinian minister, it is the New York Times. These people make tabloids seem like reliable, credible sources. A supposed conversation, from an unknown, unnamed advisor?

Hey, here you go...I, myself, am a secret military advisor to President Bush. He told me last night over dinner, where he routinely eats black aborted babies, that God told him that he must destroy anyone in the world who does not go to Bob Jones University. Furthermore, he revealed that aliens are real, but they are, in fact, angels. The crashed UFO at Area 51 is really a heavenly charriot, which God had to strike down because the angel pilot in question had an impure thought about Brittney Spears.


Not, who wants to bet me that doesn't appear in the New York Times, or on some Al Jazeera webcast as "secret insider information"? Puh-leez.

Come off it: God couldn't even convince the guy to stay sober for longer than twenty years.

I doubt God himself could command that shriveled old soldier to stand at attention again. :p
Uh huh. Riiiiight!

Of course, all that may change after the 17th! :headbang:

Oh how I hope this isn't true.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was, though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

George W Bush claimed that God personally commanded him to invade Iraq.
I did NOT do such thing!!!

All I did was casually saying something like "Wouldn't it be nice if you could get a decent hamburguer in Baghdad." But it was just an innocent remark, nothing meant by it.

But you know George, always willing to bend over backwards to please...

Not this "American Empire" crap again. If there is anyone I am LESS likely to believe than a palestinian minister, it is the New York Times. These people make tabloids seem like reliable, credible sources. A supposed conversation, from an unknown, unnamed advisor?


(it's not like it's Bush saying he heard one of his aids say it. tHAT would
be the single least trustworthy source today.)


NYTimes Magazine, not the NYTimes.
That said, maybe we're in the same club....


"14 Per cent of Americans belive almost nothing of what they read in the New York Times."
http://www.counterpunch.org/14percenttshirts.html
CounterPunch's 14 Percent Club T-shirts!

Personally, I am glad it was God that told him and not the Allah of radical Islamists or our military would be in a wide-spread campaign from Europe down to the Mid East and over to Indonesia to wipe out Muslims and I am not only talking about radical Islamic men, but women, children, the elderly, the handicapped (anyone praying towards Mecca). You name it, no one would be safe. So, all I can say is pray for the President to do what is God's will...

Personally, I am glad it was God that told him and not the Allah of radical Islamists
They're one and the same.

im gonna believe the article.why?cos its hilarious to think of george bush listening to the voices in his head and calling it god

I dont think anyone is crazy enough to make that up.. it *has* to be true.. omg...

im gonna believe the article.why?cos its hilarious to think of george bush listening to the voices in his head and calling it god
I saw an interview where he admitted that this was why he gave up cocaine. Sounds like amphetamine psychosis to me: Phillip K Dick had a similar experience once.

They're one and the same.

Of course, Allah is just another word for the english word, God, that is the reason I stated that the "Allah of radical Islamists". It's all about perception. The God of the Bible I know or the Allah of the Bible I know is very different from the radical Islamic ideas of Allah that the terrorist know...my perception is that if I commit suicide to kill Muslim innocents (for example) is not that I will go to a heavenly paradise where I will be rewarded with georgeous virgin men...I will go to hell. It's all about perception.

They're one and the same.



Nadkor's right,


God and Allah are but 2 names for the same.

(and no i'm not Muslim)


(my god's bigger than your god)
(ever hear of Missile Envy?, could be revised to 'god envy')
(tuff-guy wankerism. ha. grow up.)

Of course, Allah is just another word for the english word, God, that is the reason I stated that the "Allah of radical Islamists". It's all about perception. The God of the Bible I know or the Allah of the Bible I know is very different from the radical Islamic ideas of Allah that the terrorist know...my perception is that if I commit suicide to kill Muslim innocents (for example) is not that I will go to a heavenly paradise where I will be rewarded with georgeous virgin men...I will go to hell. It's all about perception.
So your Christian God is different from the Christian God of the Crusaders?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

George W Bush claimed that God personally commanded him to invade Iraq. This either means that:

1. Bush is a dangerous fanatic living in a fantasy world, or

2. God is real, but he is a total idiot when it comes to military strategy.

------------------------------

President George W. Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

In Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, a major three-part series on BBC TWO (at 9.00pm on Monday 10, Monday 17 and Monday 24 October), Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Oh Dear God...a fucking fundamentalist is running the most powerful country in the world...does that worry the Americans here??

So your Christian God is different from the Christian God of the Crusaders?


Sort-of. The Crusaders corrupted the word of God, just how Al-Quaida does.

if it works, though, it's not bad:

freedom (or more freedom, at least) for Iraqis and Afghanis (except the bad guys -- iraqi insurgents and afghani Taliban, of course) should be seen as a good thing overall.

a palestinian state would be exceptional...

Are they really free though? Free means being able to venture outdoors without the fear of being blown to shreds.

Oh Dear God...a fucking fundamentalist is running the most powerful country in the world...does that worry the Americans here??
They're used to it by now, I'd imagine.

Sort-of. The Crusaders corrupted the word of God, just how Al-Quaida does.
So what Christian churches version of God would you identify with?

That article is bs.

That article is bs.
You have a link to a debunking of its assertions?

That article is bs.
Prove.

So what Christian churches version of God would you identify with?

Well, technically, I wouldn't agree with any church version of God because I am a Catholic Atheist. A Catholic Atheist is a newer title refering to people born and raised Catholic but have since become anti-Church/anti-religion because of various factors. (having to go to private Catholic school/abuse/etc.) CA's, however, have usually studied religion significantly because of forced religion classes theough middle/high school, and normally study other religions and philosophy in college. So, you might say that many CA's are religion scholars who happen to dislike most religion.

What I am saying is that just like most Muslims say that Al-Quaida are not real Muslims, most Christians acknowledge that the Crusades were a misguided mistake. (as well as the Inquisition, the silent consent of the slave trade, the platform of non-involvement during the Holocaust...etc.)

Dubya believes in the Rapture!
Fire and Brimstone ending to the world, four hoursemen riding across the sky kinda thing and he's in charge, so did his dad. That worrying

I suppose Palestinian ministers are mainly (if not all) Muslims. Bush is just asking for dismissal.
In theory, it's the same god, just a different prophet.

But seriously, folks. They're going to dismiss him not because he invokes religion, but because he's clearly nuts - to say nothing of not really interested in their cause. This article, whether it is real or not, serves to illustrate the lengths he'll go to in order to get people on his side.

If someone came to me and told me he was going to help me earn a million dollars, because God told him to, I'd be pretty happy - unless I also happened to know that he was a master swindler. See where I'm going with this?

If someone came to me and told me he was going to help me earn a million dollars, because God told him to, I'd be pretty happy - unless I also happened to know that he was a master swindler. See where I'm going with this?

Sure do. That boxers are preferable to briefs, right?

Sure do. That boxers are preferable to briefs, right?
They sure are, damn straight. God told me s-- wait. Er.

No, that wasn't my point, but it'll do.

Oh Dear God...a fucking fundamentalist is running the most powerful country in the world...does that worry the Americans here??
Interesting and ironic isn't it... something he has in common with the leadership of Al-Qaeda.

You know, if we are going to go to battle based on God's plan - can we pick another God? This God has a horrible track-record in war. How about we use a plan by Thor or Mars? These guys know how to fight!

Well, as the war was starting, Bush was asked if he had consulted his father. Which would have been a sensible thing to do, seeing as he was involved in the last war. But instead, Bush replied to the effect that he had consulted a higher Father.

And some US Army General, addressing some Christian fundamentalists, said that America will win the war in Iraq because his God was the real one, while theirs was an idol.

Well you know what, even if this particular article is BS, the truth of the matter is, it makes no difference whether a rogue state is Christian or Muslim, it is still screwed up when the leaders allow religion to cloud their judgement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

George W Bush claimed that God personally commanded him to invade Iraq. This either means that:

1. Bush is a dangerous fanatic living in a fantasy world, or

2. God is real, but he is a total idiot when it comes to military strategy.

------------------------------

President George W. Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

In Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, a major three-part series on BBC TWO (at 9.00pm on Monday 10, Monday 17 and Monday 24 October), Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Why do you believe this happened ? That Bush actually told a group of Palestinians this ? :D

Prove.


How about if the people who claim Bush said this actually prove he did or that they are not high on mushrooms ?
Arafat , before he died , told me that he wishes nothing but the best for Israel and that God told him he was going to hell for being a terrorist . Then I woke up .

Why do you believe this happened ? That Bush actually told a group of Palestinians this ? :D
Meh, like I said, whether it really happened or not does not matter. What is important is that this is the sort of guy he really is.

And if the above sounds unfair, I am only applying conservative logic to the situation.

Meh, like I said, whether it really happened or not does not matter. What is important is that this is the sort of guy he really is.

And if the above sounds unfair, I am only applying conservative logic to the situation.

ConservatiVe logic , Whats that ? The whole thing is silly and those falling for the bullshit really should examine the way they digest " news " .
Shouldnt it bother you to be so " gullible " ? :D

ConservatiVe logic , Whats that ? The whole thing is silly and those falling for the bullshit really should examine the way they digest "news".
Shouldnt it bother you to be so " gullible " ? :D
Well, conservatives say, "It doesn't matter that the WMDs never existed, Iraq was bad." And "It does not matter that Iran doesn't actually have a nuclear weapon, Iran is bad."

So I say, "It doesn't matter that the whole story looks invented, Bush is so bad, it may as well be true."

How about if the people who claim Bush said this actually prove he did or that they are not high on mushrooms ?
Arafat , before he died , told me that he wishes nothing but the best for Israel and that God told him he was going to hell for being a terrorist . Then I woke up .
Nah, that doesn't prove it's BS. Try again.

Well I don't put too much faith in hearsay (that's exactly what this is) but that is a bit scary. But I doubt it ever happened. Quite frankly, Bush isn't stupid enough to say something like that, even if he did think it.

Bush is most definately stupid to say something like that, if he thinks its true.

You forgot #3:

3. The article is total bs.

I assure you, I'm not protecting Bush in any way, but you can't trust everything you read.
It would fit a few other public quotes he's made - here's one! :)
"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job."
--Dubya: Mouthpiece of God.
Statement made during capaign visit to Amish community in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, Jul. 9, 2004

The least God could have done is chosen someone with brains. Like... ME! Just kidding.

But seriously. Bush doesn't have a sensible bone in his old whithered body.

Confirmed by another source who was at the meeting.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

-----------------------------------------------

According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
Abbas, who is a palestinian minister. Not exacly the most trustworthy source. I'd sooner trust a story from the national enquirer than anything of import that comes out of Abbas' mouth. Especially as Bush has been less than acommodating to Abbas' latest thinly veiled demands.

George W Bush claimed that God personally commanded him to invade Iraq.

What's the problem? I don't see anything wrong with that.

Well, it was front-page news in most of the British newspapers, and it certainly looks more credible than the internet article suggested. Just goes to show that all the BS about the Iranian theocracy being inherently dangerous was indeed BS.

Interesting article. Glad I'm not living there.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article317805.ece

Fuck... merge this.

Sure. Provided you believe what a Palestinian says happened behind closed doors.

Show it to me on video, and I'll believe it.

Sure. Provided you believe what a Palestinian says happened behind closed doors.

Show it to me on video, and I'll believe it.
Well, can we believe what an American says happened behind closed doors? We are asked to take so much on trust these days, reports from this-or-that intelligence agency on theats to whatever, etc.

Well, can we believe what an American says happened behind closed doors? We are asked to take so much on trust these days, reports from this-or-that intelligence agency on theats to whatever, etc.

I generally don't believe most of what I read in the news, if only for that fact that it's spun.

I certainly don't take at face value anything I hear from a politician, especially a foreign one with an axe to grind.

Sure. Provided you believe what a Palestinian says happened behind closed doors.

Show it to me on video, and I'll believe it.
Well, if you're not going to believe a Palestinian, how about what Bob Woodward wrote in his 2004 book Plan of Attack, viewed by many as the definitive account of the road to war in Iraq:
After giving the order to invade, he (Bush) walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". He told Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will. I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."

Well, if you're not going to believe a Palestinian, how about what Bob Woodward wrote in his 2004 book Plan of Attack, viewed by many as the definitive account of the road to war in Iraq:
After giving the order to invade, he (Bush) walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". He told Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will. I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."

It's a very different statement from saying God told him to do the war.

"I'm surely not going to justify the war based upon God."

That seems to be completely different from what the Palestinian reported.

It's a very different statement from saying God told him to do the war.

"I'm surely not going to justify the war based upon God."

That seems to be completely different from what the Palestinian reported.
Well, yes but only if one ignores (as you seem to have done) the line immediately preceding that part ("I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will") and the one immediately after it ("I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible"). How can that not be construed to mean Bush thought God's will was for him to invade?
Great set of blinkers you have on there.

Well, yes but only if one ignores (as you seem to have done) the line immediately preceding that part ("I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will") and the one immediately after it ("I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible"). How can that not be construed to mean Bush thought God's will was for him to invade?
Great set of blinkers you have on there.

I pray for strength to do God's will, too. But I don't think that my decisions are God's will. They may or may not be - I'd like them to be good decisions, and doing good things, but they are my decisions, not God's.

If you were a Christian, you might be familiar with the concept of "free will". Yes, we hope the Lord guides our decisions, but we have free will.

It's our responsibility - our decisions.

Not a set of blinkers.

It's just about as rediculous as the reasons given for going to war! Gotta balance out your extremist news, you know. (Fox)

I could just as easily misconstrue what an Arab says everyday.

Inshallah. Or, "God willing". They have the idea that NOTHING in this world happens except that God wills it.

If it rains today, God willed it.

If we lose the battle, it's not our fault - God willed it. Same for if we win.

So, in common talk, Arabs say "inshallah" many times. Should I then conclude that they are mindless idiots who can't do anything without saying it was God's will?

What's the problem? I don't see anything wrong with that.
at first I thought this was sarcastic. Then I looked at your political compass score. Now I'm scared.

With no other explanation for your stupidity...blame it on god. :rolleyes:

God really needs to have words with His intelligence advisors.

Bush is on a mission from God? I thought it was the Blues Brothers who had the assignment? "We're on a mission from God." -Elwood Blues :D

I pray for strength to do God's will, too. But I don't think that my decisions are God's will. They may or may not be - I'd like them to be good decisions, and doing good things, but they are my decisions, not God's.

That's an interesting reading of it.

I think the second sentence is more telling though: "I pray for the strength to be as good a messenger of God's will as possible."

It sounds to me like he's simply acknowledging that it'd be political suicide for him to justify going to war based on God's will while in the midst of saying that he believes it's actually God's will that he does go to war.

I've heard numerous quotes from the President, including in Barbara Walters interviews, that seem to indicate this is the case. That Mr. Bush has a firm belief that God is specifically directing him to do the things he's been doing. It's an interesting twist on the whole "the devil made me do it" mantra.

Are they really free though? Free means being able to venture outdoors without the fear of being blown to shreds.
Well in that case the Afghans are certainly more free; Iraqis, it's more arguable.

God really needs to have words with His intelligence advisors.

I thnk a celestial inquest into personel is necessary at this juncture.... :p

But in all sincerity, the war itself was a farce, granted, its justification fraudulent and as transparent as glass, however, if he is compelled to resort to legitimising the war through divine intercession, then he truly is the political equivalent of Barney...

Does not the bible say 'thou shalt not kill'? I wonder if God wispers that to President Bush? I do not seek to shame his beliefs, but I just cant take him seriously. I dont think he's stupid neither. You dont get to the Whitehouse by being stupid. So it only leaves a few resons for his remarks.
1) God likes killing.
2) Bush likes killing and lies to misguided public.
3) Bush is a puppet, who gets told what to do/say.
4) Bush is turning Schizo!
5) God has a plan. In which case, Bush is a puppet.
6) The moneymen have a plan, In which case, Bush is a puppet.

It's an interesting twist on the whole "the devil made me do it" mantra.
# Her? Him? Was it you, was it them? Wasn't me, Slim Shady told me to do it again! #

at first I thought this was sarcastic. Then I looked at your political compass score. Now I'm scared.

What's wrong with my PC score? A lot of people have stuff like 10,10 and what not. Now, that's scary.

Bush wont take the blame for his errors (Iraq war), wont blame Rumsfield (for allowing smaller troops into Iraq against the wishes of Colin Powell and several other generals), wont blame Wolfowitz (for coming up with war strategy for Iraq) but he will bring God as an escape goat and yet he claims to be an religous man. Once God is used to justify your means (war, mass killings, inciting hate, racism), whether you are Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Budhist, and so on, you are considered a fanatic, an extremist. What's funny, if this report is true, that Bush goes and visit Muslim diplomats only to tell them that his God told him to get in between their people (Muslims & Jews) and solve their problems for them. Past history proves that every time Western nations stick their noses at other people's problems, it seems they tend to make the situation more worse than better, for example the creation of Israel, India/Pakistan situation, North/South Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, I mean, the list just go on.

this is teh bush guy america put in office for a second term right, you Americans have just reached a new low in my book.

1) Not all of us like him
2) This is the first time he actually won

That said, I agree, we are going to a new low...err I mean we are continuing the war against terror...*doh* err...struggle against extremism.

I'm not surprised to see some crap like this. Bush is a religious fanatic. God did not tell him to invade Iraq. His little toy soldiers on his desk in the White House told him to.

Bush=Jackass
God=Owns All

2) This is the first time he actually won

Given the Diebold factor, even that's debatable.

Well I don't put too much faith in hearsay (that's exactly what this is) but that is a bit scary. But I doubt it ever happened. Quite frankly, Bush isn't stupid enough to say something like that, even if he did think it.

oh I think you'll find he is

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/abbas-denies-bushs-mission-from-god-remark/2005/10/08/1128563027485.html

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has denied an account by another Palestinian official of a meeting with US President George Bush in which Bush is cited as saying he believed that God told him to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

A statement in Abbas's name released by his office said an excerpt from an interview with Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Shaath due to be broadcast by the BBC in which Shaath described a meeting with Bush in June 2003 gave a "completely false" account.

In the interview for the series, Israel and the Arabs, Shaath described the meeting, at which he said Abbas was present.

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did. And then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.' And I did,'" Shaath said.

"This report is not true," the Abbas statement said today. "I have never heard President Bush talking about religion as a reason behind the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush has never mentioned that in front of me on any occasion and specifically not during my visit in 2003."

What's the problem? I don't see anything wrong with that.
"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature... (in) the formation of the American governments... it will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of heaven... These governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
-John Adams

-
And BTW, it should be of note to the dipf*cks out there who think the U.S. is a "christian nation founded on christian ideals", they should check out something else involving John Adams...
Treaty of Tripoli, 1796 -
Ratified UNANIMOUSLY by Congress of the U.S. and signed by the president.
To wit:
Article 11
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the christian religion. "

oh I think you'll find he is
Seconded, sadly.
Doesn't he have another precious pseudo-pious quote regarding the Katrina/Rita incidences?
Someone might post that - it would seem to fit here nicely.

lots of people use religion as an excuse to do crazy and stupid things that they think are good but find out not many people agree with them

Looks like Bush "didn't" say anything about God now - according to Palestinians. Wonder which way the Palestinians think the story should go. Can't make up their minds on what happened.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/abbas-denies-bushs-mission-from-god-remark/2005/10/08/1128563027485.html

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has denied an account by another Palestinian official of a meeting with US President George Bush in which Bush is cited as saying he believed that God told him to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

A statement in Abbas's name released by his office said an excerpt from an interview with Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Shaath due to be broadcast by the BBC in which Shaath described a meeting with Bush in June 2003 gave a "completely false" account.

In the interview for the series, Israel and the Arabs, Shaath described the meeting, at which he said Abbas was present.

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did. And then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.' And I did,'" Shaath said.

"This report is not true," the Abbas statement said today. "I have never heard President Bush talking about religion as a reason behind the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush has never mentioned that in front of me on any occasion and specifically not during my visit in 2003."

Even if he did claim divine mandate: I'm more inclined to trust the Pope on matters of God than Bush, and guess who was against the war?

Causa Finita. :p

Looks like Bush "didn't" say anything about God now - according to Palestinians. Wonder which way the Palestinians think the story should go. Can't make up their minds on what happened.
Bush obviously did say it, it's just that the evidence has been hidden, like the WMDs in Iraq...

*gets on flight to sweden*

Sadly, I know whether or not this particular incident is true, Bush probably believes exactly that. That God speaks to him

You know at my college, we have a guy who thinks God speaks to him. Yea, he's a travelling preacher of some kind. Name's Gary the Pit Preacher. He's insane, and people only listen to him for a good laugh.

Somewhere in Texas a university is missing its crazy pit preacher... :(

So you do a little research on this story and it turns out it has been "spun" to advance the notion that Bush thinks Gods ordering him to do things.
Despite the words of Shaath who the report is based on .
Despite the words of the Palestinian President who was present at the time .
Despite the words of the other aids and officials who were present at the time .
Despite the words of the President himself and his officials .

And yet you do not feel like easily led fools and tools for jumping on the story ?

Even after it has been debunked as " false " .

Its makes you wonder .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

George W Bush claimed that God personally commanded him to invade Iraq. This either means that:

1. Bush is a dangerous fanatic living in a fantasy world, or

2. God is real, but he is a total idiot when it comes to military strategy.

------------------------------

President George W. Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

In Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, a major three-part series on BBC TWO (at 9.00pm on Monday 10, Monday 17 and Monday 24 October), Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"


If this is true then I want the year of my life back that I spend deployed in Iraq. I didn't sign up to fight Christianity's wars...

If this is true then I want the year of my life back that I spend deployed in Iraq. I didn't sign up to fight Christianity's wars...

You didn't. You signed up to defend your country and that is what you did. In the process, you defended international law and helped bring an international law breaker to justice.

You didn't. You signed up to defend your country and that is what you did. In the process, you defended international law and helped bring an international law breaker to justice.

You know that's bullshit.

We armed Saddam while he was butchering Kurds. We financed his wars on other Islamic groups, while he was butchering Kurds. We turned the other cheek on him butchering Kurds for decades.

Then the US flouted the 'international' law, by following Bush on his Weapon of Mass Distraction rampage... conveniently isolating stockpiles of oil... and THEN, all of a sudden, we are protecting the Kurds?

You didn't. You signed up to defend your country and that is what you did. In the process, you defended international law and helped bring an international law breaker to justice.

You're right, I signed up to defend OUR country. That has nothing to do with what we're doing in Iraq. Bush made it look like it did at first and now that we're there we're commited, but if you remember back in the beginning we weren't going there to give freedom to the Iraqi people or save them from a mass murderer, the stated reason was that Iraq was an imminant(sp?) threat to the United States, and we were doing a pre-emptive strike against them.

Of course after we got there the story changed... and then it changed again... and it goes back and forth with whatever works for the time.

You know that's bullshit.

Actually it isn't.

We armed Saddam while he was butchering Kurds. We financed his wars on other Islamic groups, while he was butchering Kurds. We turned the other cheek on him butchering Kurds for decades.

Someone posted figures somewhere on these boards. We didnt give all that much. And that was before sanctions. :rolleyes:

e US flouted the 'international' law, by following Bush on his Weapon of Mass Distraction rampage... conveniently isolating stockpiles of oil... and THEN, all of a sudden, we are protecting the Kurds?

Wrong again. However, I don't expect you to be persuaded by anything so.....

Actually it isn't.
Someone posted figures somewhere on these boards. We didnt give all that much. And that was before sanctions. :rolleyes:
Wrong again. However, I don't expect you to be persuaded by anything so.....

Please... it's okay to be Patriotic.. but to use that to ignore the failings of government is just ridiculous.

We armed Iraq against the threat of Iran, did we not? And Saddam was screwing the Kurds already, at that point, was he not? We supported Iraq while he was massacring Kurds. We sat idly by while he tested Sarin on Kurds, did we not.

In fact, wasn't the only time we really got involved, when Saddam threatened Oil stability, by invading Kuwait? And, once we'd finished there, didn't we head on out again, leaving Saddam to CONTINUE murdering Kurds?

Then - when the Dick 'n' Bush regime decides it's time to go settle scores for slights against Bush Sr, all of a sudden we are 'all about' the humanitarian concerns of the Kurds?

Please... it's okay to be Patriotic.. but to use that to ignore the failings of government is just ridiculous.

I don't ignore the failings of government. However, when I do know that they are in the right, as is with the case with Iraq, I will defend it.

We armed Iraq against the threat of Iran, did we not? And Saddam was screwing the Kurds already, at that point, was he not? We supported Iraq while he was massacring Kurds. We sat idly by while he tested Sarin on Kurds, did we not.

But didn't sit idly by as he invaded kuwait did we not? We sat idly by, till March 2003, while he violated resolution after resolution as well as a cease fire, did we not?

In fact, wasn't the only time we really got involved, when Saddam threatened Oil stability, by invading Kuwait? And, once we'd finished there, didn't we head on out again, leaving Saddam to CONTINUE murdering Kurds?

Which was a mistake and was cause of the No Fly Zone.

Then - when the Dick 'n' Bush regime decides it's time to go settle scores for slights against Bush Sr, all of a sudden we are 'all about' the humanitarian concerns of the Kurds?

Read the Iraq war resolution that passed Congress.

I don't ignore the failings of government. However, when I do know that they are in the right, as is with the case with Iraq, I will defend it.


'In the right', over Iraq? By arming them against Iran? By sponsoring their massacre of the Kurds? By ignoring decades of breaches of humanitarian conduct?

If the ONLY thing we have 'done right', in twenty-odd years of HELPING Saddam butcher Kurds, is attack him for some imaginary Weapons of Mass Distraction... well, I'd call that a pretty poor showing.

And, if you think that America's history regarding Iraq can in any way be justified as 'right'...


But didn't sit idly by as he invaded kuwait did we not? We sat idly by, till March 2003, while he violated resolution after resolution as well as a cease fire, did we not?


Oh, wait... one single gesture in a couple of decades... fought over oil, and STILL ignoring the plight of the Kurds?


Which was a mistake and was cause of the No Fly Zone.


And, that is relevent how? Kurds feel better about the dead they lose to US mistakes, perhaps?


Read the Iraq war resolution that passed Congress.

Because that makes it all better, yes?