NationStates Jolt Archive

NOTE: What do you think of this? I'm of two minds on it, but would love to hear from you about it. I got it in an email.


2 States, 22 Observations

Things I have noticed while watching media coverage of the recent hurricanes.

1. Texas: Productive industrious state run by Republicans.

Louisiana: Government dependent welfare state run by Democrats.

2. Texas: Residents take responsibility to protect and evacuate themselves.

Louisiana: Residents wait for government to protect and evacuate them.

3. Texas: Local and state officials take responsibility for protecting their citizens and property.

Louisiana: Local and state officials blame federal government for not protecting their citizens and property.

4. Texas: Command and control remains in place to preserve order.

Louisiana: Command and control collapses allowing lawlessness.

5. Texas: Law enforcement officers remain on duty to protect city.

Louisiana: Law enforcement officers desert their posts to protect themselves.

6. Texas: Local police watch for looting.

Louisiana: Local police participate in looting.

7. Texas: Law and order remains in control, 8 looters tried it, 8 looters arrested.

Louisiana: Anarchy and lawlessness breaks out, looters take over city, no arrests, criminals with guns have to be shot by federal troops.

8. Texas: Considerable damage caused by hurricane.

Louisiana: Considerable damage caused by looters.

9. Texas: Flood barriers hold preventing cities from flooding.

Louisiana: Flood barriers fail due to lack of maintenance allowing city to flood.

10. Texas: Orderly evacuation away from threatened areas, few remain.

Louisiana: 25,000 fail to evacuate, are relocated to another flooded area.

11. Texas: Citizens evacuate with personal 3 day supply of food and water.

Louisiana: Citizens fail to evacuate with 3 day supply of food and water, do without it for the next 4 days.

12. Texas: FEMA brings in tons of food and water for evacuees. State officials provide accessible distribution points.

Louisiana: FEMA brings in tons of food and water for evacuees.
State officials prevent citizens from reaching distribution points and vice versa.

13. Texas: Media can not find poor blacks in need of assistance, looking for something else to blame on Bush.

Louisiana: Media focuses on poor blacks in need of assistance, blames Bush.

14. Texas: Coastal cities suffer some infrastructure damage, Mayors tell residents to stay away until ready for repopulation, no interference from federal officials.

Louisiana: New Orleans is destroyed, Mayor asks residents to return home as another hurricane approaches, has to be overruled by federal officials.

15. Louisiana: Over 400 killed by storm, flooding and crime.

Texas: 24 killed in bus accident on highway during evacuation.

16. Texas: Jailed prisoners are relocated to other detention facilities outside the storm area.

Louisiana: Jailed prisoners are set free to prey on city shops, residents, and homes.

17. Texas: Local and state officials work with FEMA and Red Cross in recovery operations.

Louisiana: Local and state officials obstruct FEMA and Red Cross from aiding in recovery operations.

18. Texas: Local and state officials demonstrate leadership in managing disaster areas.

Louisiana: Local and state officials fail to demonstrate leadership, require federal government to manage disaster areas.

19. Texas: Fuel deliveries can't keep up with demand, some run out of gas on highway, need help from fuel tankers before storm arrives.

Louisiana: Motorists wait till storm hits and electrical power fails. Cars run out of gas at gas stations that can't pump gas. Gas in underground tanks mixes with flood waters.

20. Texas: Mayors move citizens out of danger.

Louisiana: Mayor moves himself and family to Dallas.

21. Texas: Mayors continue public service announcements and updates on television with Governor's backing and support.

Louisiana: Mayor cusses, governor cries, senator threatens president with violence on television, none of them have a clue what went wrong or who's sresponsible.

22. Louisiana: Democratic Senator says FEMA was slow in responding to 911 calls from Louisiana citizens.

Texas: Republican Senator says "when you call 911, the phone doesn't ring in Washington, it rings here at the local responders!"


What if state and local elected officials were forced to depend on themselves
and their own resources instead of calling for help from the federal government?

Texas cities would be back up and running in a few days. Louisiana cities would still be under water next month.

Ehm, the fact that Texas came AFTER all hell broke loose in Louisiana might have something to do with the stated differences?

9. Texas: Flood barriers hold preventing cities from flooding.

Louisiana: Flood barriers fail due to lack of maintenance allowing city to flood.

i think therein lies the fundamental difference between the two states that can account for a lot of the other 'observations'

20. Texas: Mayors move citizens out of danger.

Louisiana: Mayor moves himself and family to Dallas.

Texas Mayors did not move their families out of harm?

i think therein lies the fundamental difference between the two states that can account for a lot of the other 'observations'
Yeah I have a feeling that was a lot of it (not all for sure) but a lot

sounds about right. The entire culture around here is different though.
In Oklahoma when there is a tornado you find people rushing to the storm affected area to help, people with pickups digging through the rubble and taking people to the hospital in thier truck beds.

After Hurricane Katrina, we went to work (actually some did before, getting as close as they could so that they would be there when the storm passed but were not let in because by 'feeding the people you make them want to stay') I went down to where we were supposed to have a shelter for victims and got turned away because they had too many volunteers. It makes me glad I live here.

Ehm, the fact that Texas came AFTER all hell broke loose in Louisiana might have something to do with the stated differences?
Probably.

sounds about right. The entire culture around here is different though. In Oklahoma when there is a tornado you find people rushing to the storm affected area to help, people with pickups digging through the rubble and taking people to the hospital in thier truck beds.

After Hurricane Katrina, we went to work (actually some did before, getting as close as they could so that they would be there when the storm passed but were not let in because by 'feeding the people you make them want to stay') I went down to where we were supposed to have a shelter for victims and got turned away because they had too many volunteers. It makes me glad I live here.
Which goes a long way toward illustrating the differences in culture between the two states, I suspect.

sounds about right. The entire culture around here is different though.
In Oklahoma when there is a tornado you find people rushing to the storm affected area to help, people with pickups digging through the rubble and taking people to the hospital in thier truck beds.

After Hurricane Katrina, we went to work (actually some did before, getting as close as they could so that they would be there when the storm passed but were not let in because by 'feeding the people you make them want to stay') I went down to where we were supposed to have a shelter for victims and got turned away because they had too many volunteers. It makes me glad I live here.

The difference in culture you mention is not a black-white thing as much as it is the following:

1. Some people believe they should wait for the government to do everything. If their neighbors are in trouble, they'll try to call the government for help. If the phones are out, or the government is too disorganized or busy to respond, the neighbors are screwed.

2. Others believe that they can do many things for themselves - including helping their neighbors. The government is just another asset they can use for help.

The people in New Orleans that we saw at the Superdome were largely in #1.

The people in your town are largely in #2.

That's the difference.

Texas Mayors did not move their families out of harm?
I don't think that was the implication of that statement, but I'm sure any public official would want his family out of the area as much as any citizen would.

The difference in culture you mention is not a black-white thing as much as it is the following:

1. Some people believe they should wait for the government to do everything. If their neighbors are in trouble, they'll try to call the government for help. If the phones are out, or the government is too disorganized or busy to respond, the neighbors are screwed.

2. Others believe that they can do many things for themselves - including helping their neighbors. The government is just another asset they can use for help.

The people in New Orleans that we saw at the Superdome were largely in #1.

The people in your town are largely in #2.

That's the difference.
I suspect that you are correct about this. Years and generations of dependency on the government tends to breed this sort of attitude.

Alot of the differences might also have to do with the fact that Bush declared a State of Emergency before the hurricane hit Texas, as opposed to several days after, as with Katrina.

Alot of the differences might also have to do with the fact that Bush declared a State of Emergency before the hurricane hit Texas, as opposed to several days after, as with Katrina.
As has been pointed out before, declaration of a State of Emergency is usually dependent upon the Governor asking the Federal Government to declare such a State.

The difference in culture you mention is not a black-white thing as much as it is the following:

1. Some people believe they should wait for the government to do everything. If their neighbors are in trouble, they'll try to call the government for help. If the phones are out, or the government is too disorganized or busy to respond, the neighbors are screwed.

2. Others believe that they can do many things for themselves - including helping their neighbors. The government is just another asset they can use for help.

The people in New Orleans that we saw at the Superdome were largely in #1.

The people in your town are largely in #2.

That's the difference.

I never said anything about it being black/white
if you have ever been to Texas you would know it is predominally black (at least that was my impression of Houston when I went)

The scary thing is that as biased as some remarks are, Eutrusca is right. I mean I don't want to sound like a dumbass anti-federalist, but with an incompetent Federal government, the local and state governments really need to take charge - they are the 1st responders since they are the closest, after all.

I don't think that was the implication of that statement, but I'm sure any public official would want his family out of the area as much as any citizen would.
I would figure so … I mean obviously they would be recommending evacuation for their citizens they would think it was the right option

But if they both evacuated their families what purpose did that statement have?

It would more honest to state it as


20. Texas: Mayors move their family out of danger.

Louisiana: Mayor moves himself and family to Dallas(out of danger).

But you know then it wouldn’t be sensational or making the agenda the writer of this list was going for
:rolleyes:

I never said anything about it being black/white
if you have ever been to Texas you would know it is predominally black (at least that was my impression of Houston when I went)
I'm not saying you said it was black/white - most of the mainstream media is implying it.

Like I said, it's a difference in attitude. You either believe you can do something in this world, or you believe you are helpless without the government.

The scary thing is that as biased as some remarks are, Eutrusca is right. I mean I don't want to sound like a dumbass anti-federalist, but with an incompetent Federal government, the local and state governments really need to take charge - they are the 1st responders since they are the closest, after all.
that is my point. sorta. except for we don't wait around for local government here either.

It is ingrained in us since elementary school "you are your own first responder, don't wait for someone to save you, save yourself and go help others"

I'm not saying you said it was black/white - most of the mainstream media is implying it.

Like I said, it's a difference in attitude. You either believe you can do something in this world, or you believe you are helpless without the government.
okay ;)

Like I said, it's a difference in attitude. You either believe you can do something in this world, or you believe you are helpless without the government.
Reminds me of an allegorical story involving Stalin and three birds.

As has been pointed out before, declaration of a State of Emergency is usually dependent upon the Governor asking the Federal Government to declare such a State.
Point being is that because a State of Emergency was declared before-hand, alot of positive things were able to be done before-hand.
So it's the Governor's fault, and nothing to do with what side of the political fence they're on.
Out of curiosity, did Bush wait until asked to declare a SOE? I only heard that he did, nothing about whether he was formally asked first.

Probably.

some of that makes sense though, when you consider that Republicans historically have held that federal government should only be pursued for help if the state/local authority cannot take care of the problem. The state acts, then if they need help they ask the Feds.

Conversely, when you think that it's the federal government's responsibility to run everything/take care of everyone, and when you're dependent on the federal government, you might not be as likely to act on your own... rather, you wait for the feds to solve everything.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet or not, but in Louisiana when Katrina hit first it caused much more massive damage and FEMA totally dropped the ball as did state and local officials. The media was all over it like a fly on..well you know... and the President took a big hit for it personally as well. Then along comes Rita, not as strong of a storm and they already had all the resources in the coastal area because of Katrina and because of Katrina a lot more people were willing to leave or go to shelters then they probably would have had Katrina not happened. Not to mention all the coverage that the looting from Katrina got on the news, also prepared the police better for what they might expect in Rita.

I think the reason Rita was handled so much better has nothing to do with the difference in states, it was a direct result of what had already happened with Katrina.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet or not, but in Louisiana when Katrina hit first it caused much more massive damage and FEMA totally dropped the ball as did state and local officials. The media was all over it like a fly on..well you know... and the President took a big hit for it personally as well. Then along comes Rita, not as strong of a storm and they already had all the resources in the coastal area because of Katrina and because of Katrina a lot more people were willing to leave or go to shelters then they probably would have had Katrina not happened. Not to mention all the coverage that the looting from Katrina got on the news, also prepared the police better for what they might expect in Rita.

I think the reason Rita was handled so much better has nothing to do with the difference in states, it was a direct result of what had already happened with Katrina.

It may have less to do with the government, and more to do with the people who live there.

People who are raised to expect that they, not the government, are first responders, do better in disasters. Period.

People who have seen what happens if you wait for the government to rescue you from the Superdome, and who take that lesson to heart, won't wait for the government to rescue them and sit there wallowing in filth and self-pity.

Neighbors who are armed and get together and put up signs that say looters will be shot usually don't get their neighborhood looted. Those who wait for the police (who either quit their jobs or join the looters) and do nothing get raped, their belongings stolen, and their houses burned to the ground.

It's not "all about the government". Most of real life is distant from the actual effects of government.

Point being is that because a State of Emergency was declared before-hand, alot of positive things were able to be done before-hand.
So it's the Governor's fault, and nothing to do with what side of the political fence they're on.
Out of curiosity, did Bush wait until asked to declare a SOE? I only heard that he did, nothing about whether he was formally asked first.


State of Emergency was asked for by LA 2 days before Katrina hit. I can find you the link if you'd like.

All though i am not a bush fan i believe he should not have issued the announcement where he apologized for the lack of governmental responce. I do not think he should be the target for blame in this. It should all to the Mayor and the governor for their delays in responce and lack of knowledge in what to do

Would I be right in assuming that the original poster is a Republican supporter?

I also noticed one or two things. The hurricane that hit Louisiana was a higher category that the one that hit Texas, and Texas was only brushed by the edge, whereas Louisiana got hit by the full force of a more powerful hurricane.

When it comes to these 'observations' I think a fair amount is based on your view point.

Anyway, all I can say is that everyone should have dug in to help out in both places, blame is something to be apportioned much later, and the Government should make sure that all officials at every level are competent and know what they are doing in emergency situations.

Would I be right in assuming that the original poster is a Republican supporter?

You'd be wrong. Eutrusca is a centrist, and don't you forget it! *I can't really see an appliccable smiley to go here...*

Anyway, all I can say is that everyone should have dug in to help out in both places, blame is something to be apportioned much later, and the Government should make sure that all officials at every level are competent and know what they are doing in emergency situations.

Wilkommen Aus Democracy! You can elect anyone, as incompetent as you please, as borne out by Katrina and Iraq alike!

Anyway, all I can say is that everyone should have dug in to help out in both places, blame is something to be apportioned much later, and the Government should make sure that all officials at every level are competent and know what they are doing in emergency situations.

At least two of the individuals who were incompetant in these events were elected. The Mayor of NO and the Governor of LA. That they were incompetant in their jobs is the fault of the voters, not the Gov't. I don't care about thier political party, skin color, sex, etc. They dropped the ball on many occasions as well as the FEMA chief, who was appointed and should have been more qualified. That is the presidents fault.

The politicians (including the police chief) and the oh so trustful media exaserbated the situation by exxagerating claims and repeating rumors as fact.

But you know then it wouldn’t be sensational or making the agenda the writer of this list was going for :rolleyes:
I suspect the point the writer was trying to make is that the Mayor himself left the area.

Like I said, it's a difference in attitude. You either believe you can do something in this world, or you believe you are helpless without the government.
I essentially agree with this. I suspect it's a case of "learned dependency."

I suspect the point the writer was trying to make is that the Mayor himself left the area.
Did any of the others? I have seen no information one way or the other. I would assume again if they are recommending evacuation for their constituents they would be taking their own advice

something i will like to throw in, is they only appreciate the government when its there to give them food, water, shelter, money etc...

but if they dont need that stuff at the moment, they dont want the govenrment anywhere near them. they like their wlefare, but other then that they dont care about the government, unless its threatening to take away their welfare.

State of Emergency was asked for by LA 2 days before Katrina hit. I can find you the link if you'd like.it shouldn't matter. the fact that one community waited for help while the other prepared for it has nothing to do with the governement (Federal, State, or Local.) but the attitude of the citizens, the community if you will.

IF a hurricane/tornado was heading in your area, as a citizen would you wait for some government official to come in and hand you canned food and gas that you should be stocking up on? or would you do it yourself?

Each time Kauai was hit by a hurricane, the first response, the first ones there to help were the people of that community. then came the other islands and finally the Feds.

and Eut... how much of those "observations" are baised off of faulty news reports? Just asking. After hearing about all the False Horror stories, and the lack of response, my trust in the news media for reporting the truth kinda took a major hit.

Did any of the others? I have seen no information one way or the other. I would assume again if they are recommending evacuation for their constituents they would be taking their own adviceI remember hearing the mayor of the city that Rita threatened stayed behind.

but that, I think, was more of family pride. her (Great?) grandfather had the storm wall built and she had faith in that.

I remember hearing the mayor of the city that Rita threatened stayed behind.

but that, I think, was more of family pride. her (Great?) grandfather had the storm wall built and she had faith in that.
So one of them made the choice not to go against their recommendation fair enough it is their life

But I bet some of the others left

So in the end mayors from both states evacuated themselves AND their families

As such that number 20 is nothing but a pile of slanted BS

... did Bush wait until asked to declare a SOE? I only heard that he did, nothing about whether he was formally asked first.
From what I read, he called the Governor and asked her if she wanted such a declaration.

Did any of the others? I have seen no information one way or the other. I would assume again if they are recommending evacuation for their constituents they would be taking their own advice
A good captain is always the last one to leave the sinking ship.

So one of them made the choice not to go against their recommendation fair enough it is their life

But I bet some of the others left

So in the end mayors from both states evacuated themselves AND their families

As such that number 20 is nothing but a pile of slanted BSdunno... usually the officials are the last ones to leave... for they need to keep the people calm. Sure they can get their families out first but as the leaders of the city, they ususally would be the last to leave (If they choose to leave.) I think the point was that Mayor Nagin was one of the first to evacuate. tho I have no evidence of when he did evacuate.

and Eut... how much of those "observations" are baised off of faulty news reports? Just asking. After hearing about all the False Horror stories, and the lack of response, my trust in the news media for reporting the truth kinda took a major hit.
My trust in most of the news media was nonexistent to begin with.

This news report, however, quoted the Mayor directly.

NOTE: What do you think of this? I'm of two minds on it, but would love to hear from you about it. I got it in an email.

Well, of course you would find those differences. Texas has a Mexican/Spanish ancestry, while Louisiana's is French :D

i think therein lies the fundamental difference between the two states that can account for a lot of the other 'observations'
Nope, most of the shit in louisiana happened or was set in motion before the levees collapsed. They just exacerbated the already nasty problems.

NOTE: What do you think of this? I'm of two minds on it, but would love to hear from you about it. I got it in an email.


2 States, 22 Observations

Things I have noticed while watching media coverage of the recent hurricanes.

1. Texas: Productive industrious state run by Republicans.

Louisiana: Government dependent welfare state run by Democrats.

2. Texas: Residents take responsibility to protect and evacuate themselves.

Louisiana: Residents wait for government to protect and evacuate them.

3. Texas: Local and state officials take responsibility for protecting their citizens and property.

Louisiana: Local and state officials blame federal government for not protecting their citizens and property.

4. Texas: Command and control remains in place to preserve order.

Louisiana: Command and control collapses allowing lawlessness.

5. Texas: Law enforcement officers remain on duty to protect city.

Louisiana: Law enforcement officers desert their posts to protect themselves.

6. Texas: Local police watch for looting.

Louisiana: Local police participate in looting.

7. Texas: Law and order remains in control, 8 looters tried it, 8 looters arrested.

Louisiana: Anarchy and lawlessness breaks out, looters take over city, no arrests, criminals with guns have to be shot by federal troops.

8. Texas: Considerable damage caused by hurricane.

Louisiana: Considerable damage caused by looters.

9. Texas: Flood barriers hold preventing cities from flooding.

Louisiana: Flood barriers fail due to lack of maintenance allowing city to flood.

10. Texas: Orderly evacuation away from threatened areas, few remain.

Louisiana: 25,000 fail to evacuate, are relocated to another flooded area.

11. Texas: Citizens evacuate with personal 3 day supply of food and water.

Louisiana: Citizens fail to evacuate with 3 day supply of food and water, do without it for the next 4 days.

12. Texas: FEMA brings in tons of food and water for evacuees. State officials provide accessible distribution points.

Louisiana: FEMA brings in tons of food and water for evacuees.
State officials prevent citizens from reaching distribution points and vice versa.

13. Texas: Media can not find poor blacks in need of assistance, looking for something else to blame on Bush.

Louisiana: Media focuses on poor blacks in need of assistance, blames Bush.

14. Texas: Coastal cities suffer some infrastructure damage, Mayors tell residents to stay away until ready for repopulation, no interference from federal officials.

Louisiana: New Orleans is destroyed, Mayor asks residents to return home as another hurricane approaches, has to be overruled by federal officials.

15. Louisiana: Over 400 killed by storm, flooding and crime.

Texas: 24 killed in bus accident on highway during evacuation.

16. Texas: Jailed prisoners are relocated to other detention facilities outside the storm area.

Louisiana: Jailed prisoners are set free to prey on city shops, residents, and homes.

17. Texas: Local and state officials work with FEMA and Red Cross in recovery operations.

Louisiana: Local and state officials obstruct FEMA and Red Cross from aiding in recovery operations.

18. Texas: Local and state officials demonstrate leadership in managing disaster areas.

Louisiana: Local and state officials fail to demonstrate leadership, require federal government to manage disaster areas.

19. Texas: Fuel deliveries can't keep up with demand, some run out of gas on highway, need help from fuel tankers before storm arrives.

Louisiana: Motorists wait till storm hits and electrical power fails. Cars run out of gas at gas stations that can't pump gas. Gas in underground tanks mixes with flood waters.

20. Texas: Mayors move citizens out of danger.

Louisiana: Mayor moves himself and family to Dallas.

21. Texas: Mayors continue public service announcements and updates on television with Governor's backing and support.

Louisiana: Mayor cusses, governor cries, senator threatens president with violence on television, none of them have a clue what went wrong or who's sresponsible.

22. Louisiana: Democratic Senator says FEMA was slow in responding to 911 calls from Louisiana citizens.

Texas: Republican Senator says "when you call 911, the phone doesn't ring in Washington, it rings here at the local responders!"


What if state and local elected officials were forced to depend on themselves
and their own resources instead of calling for help from the federal government?

Texas cities would be back up and running in a few days. Louisiana cities would still be under water next month.

Awesome :) Just curious, is this your original work?

Gun control people are group one, right to carry are group 2 .

I suspect that you are correct about this. Years and generations of dependency on the government tends to breed this sort of attitude.