NationStates Jolt Archive

Note: I'm staight, but this article was the most interesting one on society I've seen in a long time.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1112856-1,00.html
This article says that people are starting to come out earlier and earlier, and right into the teen years. There is research also showing that same sex attraction is remembered from an earlier period in society at large. In the 1960s, the earliest memory was 17 for girls, 14 for boys. by 1990, it is 15 for girls, and twelve for boys (surprised, ladies?).
But this is a new phenomenon. In recent decades, the gay subculture was a preserve for adults, one controlled by them and made for them. Now, as more teens are starting to come out, adult gays just aren't sure what to do with the kids.
Nevertheless, I personally found it to be a bigger issue with the gay subculture than society at large. And while this may sound surprising, churches are the fastest to adapt. No one expects the more conservative churches to change positions overnight. However, the paradigm has shifted. When homosexuality was first discussed in the seventies and eighties, televangelists preffered condemning gays to trying to offer redemption. Now, they are setting up programs to "reform" gays, but increasingly, teenage gays that wish to change. The ones that may actually achieve this goal are a few camps and websites that condemn anti-homosexuality slurs and the like, but gradually wean kids away from homosexuality. It's a big change from thirty years ago.
I know that similar rumblings have occured here, though this magazine article just happened to come out. A lot of people say that this is too young, but is it? A person, I believe, may know sexuality without being sexually active, or even a virgin. I personally see this as a reaction to those that do not give these brave souls credit. The current homosexuality paradigm focuses on gay adults, as specified in the long running contraversy of gay marraige in the West. New demographics muddle the picture and make it complex, which I believe people at large cannot accept. But I wouldn't worry. These gays are the teenage version of their adult counterparts in the sixties and seventies: the creators of the gay subculture.

I don't know that the fact that same sex attraction is remembered at an earlier age by the new generations means anything. Children are entering puberty at a younger age now, on average. So naturally they would notice who makes them aroused at a younger age.

I don't know that the fact that same sex attraction is remembered at an earlier age by the new generations means anything. Children are entering puberty at a younger age now, on average. So naturally they would notice who makes them aroused at a younger age.

True. My dad's college roommate was on the research team that invented rBST and all those nice food horomones we can thank for some of this stuff.. :p

I don't know that the fact that same sex attraction is remembered at an earlier age by the new generations means anything. Children are entering puberty at a younger age now, on average. So naturally they would notice who makes them aroused at a younger age.I knew it was women that aroused me when I was 4. Puberty had nothing to do with it.

True. My dad's college roommate was on the research team that invented rBST and all those nice food horomones we can thank for some of this stuff.. :p

*Looks down*

And thank him I do.

:p

True. My dad's college roommate was on the research team that invented rBST and all those nice food horomones we can thank for some of this stuff.. :p
I don't know if there's a proven link between the food hormones and early puberty, but I wouldn't be surprised.


I also wonder if there is a link between the food hormones and increased cancer rates.

Some people know from an early age which way they go, My Uncle told me once he knew he was attracted to men from an early age but never classed himself as "gay" because thats just how he is. Its society that brands people "gay". Everyone is branded.

I'm from Ireland and recently an American priest was on my local radio station and he claimed that all gays are evil and potential paedophiles and all paedophiles are gay. The radio station recieved hundreds of phonecalls from people applauding what this priest had to say! A lot of the clergy agree with this theory.

I don't know if there's a proven link between the food hormones and early puberty, but I wouldn't be surprised.


I also wonder if there is a link between the food hormones and increased cancer rates.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure either. The guy's funny though, kind of a character.. so I can't really tell when he's being serious or giving a real opinion, although he's pretty proud to have gotten the only FDA-approved patent on a horomone granted in the last 25 years, or something like that. In any case, the FDA doesn't let too many horomones enter the mainstream food supply without extensive research, none of which I've read, so I've got nothing to contribute there.

One of my sons was obviously gay long before he reached puberty.

Gender or sexual assignment is not a function of puberty.

Funny thing about hormones, the human body cannot digest them and they are not removed by most water sanitation programs. So if you put a hormone into someone chances are most of it will come back out.

Therefore when someone takes a pill consisting of massive doses of Oestrogen and Progesterone itll come back out and into the water supply (the pill) and the sames almost certainly true with the large range of hormones we feed to our animals and put in our foods. Though i cant on such short notice pull up a water tox report and prove it to you :P... later maybe.

As for the title subject... teenagers gained power only relatively recently, and now they have that power people are exploiting them more and more thoroughly and to do this they are treated as adults with fewer responsibilities, hence they act as such.

And lastly it might just be me but throughing around the term "gays" makes me a tad uncomfortable, it feels in the least a little disrespectful if not actually insulting. Though i know most probably don't mind it doesnt feel quite polite as it were :D.

ay, fenix, us gay folks call ourselves "gays" all the time as well. don't worry. we re-claimed that one a long time ago..;)

p.s. haven't read the article yet so wil make on-topic comment in a minute

*shocked look* Well i most certainly don't i was brought up properly... for me its homosexual or fag. were apropriate. Homosexual for dinner conversation or the upstanding members of the gay community (its OK if you leave the s off too) and fag for those that use too much fake tan and where tight clothing thats just slightly too optomistic of the wearers figure.

well, see , i don't care one way or the other, but i know that most gays/homosexuals (;)) i met on NS have spoken out against the use of "fag" in these forums, some even calling the mods for it..funny how everyone's perception's different. i guess that when in doubt, stay with 'homosexual'.


oh, and: i wanted to read the article now but i can't? it says i ahve to subscribe to TIME in order to read it..;(

oh, and: i wanted to read the article now but i can't? it says i ahve to subscribe to TIME in order to read it..;(

www.bugmenot.com

hanks, kanabia, but i shall not.

hanks, kanabia, but i shall not.

Why not? :p

(The rest of us can read the article, so why shouldn't you?)

ay, dunno, it's one of these old-fashioned concepts of honor and respecting (intellectual) property and all.. they don't give out newspapers without charge, it is a courtesy, not a duty of theirs to put it on the net, i feel they have the right to ask you to do whatever they feel is right in order to let you view it. and i don't feel i have the right to sneak around it.

anyway, we're hijacking the thread, let's stop.

from what i've gathered so fram from the OP..i don't think teenagers didn't think of homosexuality (their own or others') later than today's teenagers, but i think it is only that today they are ready earlier to admit it..

and only now that they are ready to bring it into the open they establish a sub-culture as well.

I'm from Ireland and recently an American priest was on my local radio station and he claimed that all gays are evil and potential paedophiles and all paedophiles are gay. The radio station recieved hundreds of phonecalls from people applauding what this priest had to say! A lot of the clergy agree with this theory.

Needless to say, a lot of crap get spewed out the mouths of religious fundamentalists(all religions considered).

I even read an article saying some local nut in the USA blamed gays for Katrina and Rita.

Funny how here in Canada, not so far from them, we let those "dirty evil pedophile sinful sodomites" marry and generally tolerate and accept them without divine vengeance throw at us...

Maybe it's the intolerant and judgemental God is trying to punish?

First off, children do not mature faster than they did before. If anything, they grow up slower than they did before, they have less responsibilities and they are influenced by peer pressure, by their school environments and the media.

What this report suggests, by showing us that the younger and younger people are deciding they are homosexual is proof that the homosexual community is introduced to them at a younger age, indoctrination takes place, like joining a club. Like a fashion statement. It's silly really, and probably cannon fodder for the conservatives to renew their interest in removing 'gay acceptance' indoctrination from their school districts.

My daughter is in fifth grade (that’s 9 and 10 years olds), and there is a group of young girls there that she plays with who already go around telling everyone that they are lesbians and acting out homosexual behaviors to that regard. They talk about same sex marriage and they giggle incessantly just like other little girls do about boys and marriage and having babies of their own since time immemorial. Nothing is different today from thirty years ago accept for the fact that the children today have been exposed to and favorably introduced to the idea of SS couple and the homosexual lifestyles.

Anyone that says you can’t indoctrinate/mold future homosexual behavior is in denial. Children play and role-model, they ‘practice’ growing up, it’s common sense. You want more homosexuals and homosexual acceptance? Teach them about it in elementary school in a favorable fashion. Why now, twenty five years later, are we surprised it works… It’s essentially a no brainer.

It’s essentially a no brainer.

Why, yes, your entire post truly was.

Why, yes, your entire post truly was.

Prove it. That article shows how it's true. You think girls have played with dolls since the dawn of civilization because 'play-time' does not prepare us for growing up? You think girls don't go around pretending to be the idols they see on TV and in the media? Of course they do.

Simply dismissing it out of hand is ridiculous, what are you trying to hide?

Prove it. That article shows how it's true. You think girls have played with dolls since the dawn of civilization because 'play-time' does not prepare us for growing up? You think girls don't go around pretending to be the idols they see on TV and in the media? Of course they do.

I don't have to prove anything - you're the asserter, and the asserter flying against scientific consensus.

Simply dismissing it out of hand is ridiculous, what are you trying to hide?

I have nothing to hide - I'd be the first one to admit how great it would be if more people were gay (unfortunately, it remains wishful thinking on my side, and fortunately nothing but warped scare propaganda on yours), but I am very well aware of your religious agenda, therefore it really is pointless discussing this with you, because I know basically everything you're going to dredge up, and really, I'm not going to be the one giving your delusions a platform.

Prove it. That article shows how it's true. You think girls have played with dolls since the dawn of civilization because 'play-time' does not prepare us for growing up? You think girls don't go around pretending to be the idols they see on TV and in the media? Of course they do.

Simply dismissing it out of hand is ridiculous, what are you trying to hide?

Yes, gays are trying to take over the world...

The article doesn't prove anything, it just remarks on a trend. That trend can have many causes. Maybe because society is a little more open about homosexuality more (and at an earlier stage) young people can come out of the closet?

*snip*

I have nothing to hide - I'd be the first one to admit how great it would be if more people were gay (unfortunately, it remains wishful thinking on my side, and fortunately nothing but warped scare propaganda on yours), *snip*

Warped scare propaganda is what it was twenty five years ago, when people said it might be a bad idea to promote sexual agendas in the schools. That was when it was a theory that children would act out what they are taught about it.

Now, twenty five years later, and the evidence is in, that children indeed are acting out what they learn, it's not propaganda scare tactics anymore, it's proven fact.


BTW: My religious agenda? LMAO :p :D Who's got the agenda?

The article doesn't prove anything, it just remarks on a trend. That trend can have many causes. Maybe because society is a little more open about homosexuality more ...

Isn't that exactly what I said? :rolleyes:

sexuality is not linked to choice, its just what people are.

one of the reasons younger people are comming out now is that it is now more socially acceptable for them to do so and also they know about it now when in the past they didn't so much.

puberty is based on a combination of age and mass, people who are hevier tend to go through puberty faster, as we get hevier as a population puberty becomes earlier, has any one noticed that small thin people tend to have puberty later while big heavy people have it earlier.

Isn't that exactly what I said? :rolleyes:

No, it isn't. You conclude that teens have 'learned' to be gay. I'd say there were as many gays twenty years ago as there are now. But as society has become (slighty) more open, more gays are able to express their sexuality.

Warped scare propaganda is what it was twenty five years ago, when people said it might be a bad idea to promote sexual agendas in the schools. That was when it was a theory that children would act out what they are taught about it.

Now, twenty five years later, and the evidence is in, that children indeed are acting out what they learn, it's not propaganda scare tactics anymore, it's proven fact.

*notices lack of this "proven fact" and scientific consensus still being against you* *doesn't hold his breath for any of that to change*

BTW: My religious agenda? LMAO :p :D Who's got the agenda?

Hey, I know that one can't change people's sexual orientation, that's why I don't spend my time with that exercise in futility, making what is my "agenda" just what I said: wishful thinking. You people however do. It doesn't remain anything else but wishful thinking on your side, either, as the infamous failure rates of your "ex-gay" brainwashing experiments are nice examples of, but your wishful thinking, typically, is acted upon, and, well, here is used as some sort of warped fear tactic.

Hey, I know that one can't change people's sexual orientation, that's why I don't spend my time with that exercise in futility, making what is my "agenda" just what I said: wishful thinking. You people however do. It doesn't remain anything else but wishful thinking on your side, either, as the infamous failure rates of your "ex-gay" brainwashing experiments are nice examples of, but your wishful thinking, typically, is acted upon, and, well, here is used as some sort of warped fear tactic.

Fass, I know the following for a fact, not because I read any literature, or followed any study, but because I've experienced it first hand in raising my son.

1. Gender role assignment, and sexual orientation, is apparent at a very early age. Long before puberty.
2. It isn't something that you can change.

People need to accept that it's like having blue eyes, or blond hair. It just the way it is.

I thik the reasoning that people are coming out sooner is, that its becoming more accepted over the years. And now that its starting to become somthing that isn't casted out, and your going to be rediculed every where you go now that teens are less afraid. But I also think that it being more open and what not is making it easyer for confused teens to give up on wondering about there sexuality, and really thinking through what they want. (although in the end after some one decides if theya re gay or straight, then they will live with it and embrace it, even if later in life they have second thoughts.)

1. Gender role assignment, and sexual orientation, is apparent at a very early age. Long before puberty.
2. It isn't something that you can change.

People need to accept that it's like having blue eyes, or blond hair. It just the way it is.

Agreed. Nobody chooses to be gay.

"Hi mom, hi dad, I decided I'd be gay today.Always wanted to try that."

:rolleyes:

Nobody can choose their sexual orientation. What we CAN choose, however, is HOW we live our sexuality. Gay people can choose to stay closeted, alone and hiding all their life, or they can choose to live their different sexuality openly and try to find love and acceptance for who they really are. If you ask me, it's pretty obvious which option is the best.

If I had had a choice, as a teenager, to be straight instead of having to go though the trouble of coming out, the prejudice and intolerance of others, of course I would have chosen to be straight. However, now that I've learned to accept who I am, and feel comfortable with being different, I wouldn't change for the life of me. :) It's perfectly possible to be gay in the happy sense of the term as well as being homosexual.

Agreed. Nobody chooses to be gay.

"Hi mom, hi dad, I decided I'd be gay today.Always wanted to try that."

:rolleyes:

Nobody can choose their sexual orientation. What we CAN choose, however, is HOW we live our sexuality. Gay people can choose to stay closeted, alone and hiding all their life, or they can choose to live their different sexuality openly and try to find love and acceptance for who they really are. If you ask me, it's pretty obvious which option is the best.

If I had had a choice, as a teenager, to be straight instead of having to go though the trouble of coming out, the prejudice and intolerance of others, of course I would have chosen to be straight. However, now that I've learned to accept who I am, and feel comfortable with being different, I wouldn't change for the life of me. :) It's perfectly possible to be gay in the happy sense of the term as well as being homosexual.


My wife and I noticed our older son was "different" when he was 4.

We decided that the best thing we could do was to let him think of home as a safe place where he could be himself - and when he goes out into the world, to take things one step at a time - knowing that he would have our support.

Just like any other aspect of his life.

I thik the reasoning that people are coming out sooner is, that its becoming more accepted over the years. And now that its starting to become somthing that isn't casted out, and your going to be rediculed every where you go now that teens are less afraid. But I also think that it being more open and what not is making it easyer for confused teens to give up on wondering about there sexuality, and really thinking through what they want. (although in the end after some one decides if theya re gay or straight, then they will live with it and embrace it, even if later in life they have second thoughts.)

See my previous post about the so-called "choice" about sexual orientation.

If teens are confused about their sexuality, OF COURSE they're going to experiment and see what's what. But not every teen is confused about his/her sexuality. And your last thought about how someone is somehow restricted for the rest of their life by what they feel or do during their teenage years is nonsense: how many gay men have been married for years in hope of somehow "becoming straight" or just trying to deny their sexual preferences, before finally coming out of the closet at age 40 and up?

My wife and I noticed our older son was "different" when he was 4.

We decided that the best thing we could do was to let him think of home as a safe place where he could be himself - and when he goes out into the world, to take things one step at a time - knowing that he would have our support.

Just like any other aspect of his life.

You both sound like great parents. Keep up the good job. Too many poeple forget that it's a parent's job to support their children, not force their ideals or unachieved dreams upon them. In cases of different sexual orientation, just a little bit of understanding goes a long way toward fulfilling the child's happiness.

I didn't mean that its an all case fact. It was ment as, when people make life chooses as a teen, they have a tendacy to go with it. I don't see very many people who were the "Punk" who put an education first. "Punks" ussaly end up saying education isn't worth it, and end up with jobs like constrution. And yet again I ain't saying thats an always factoid. However, the "Brains" how work hard to get an educations (Or get people to work hard for them) end up going through there way of life, and not just say, "Why am i even going to bother, i could live an easy life like those punks."

I didn't mean that its an all case fact. It was ment as, when people make life chooses as a teen, they have a tendacy to go with it. I don't see very many people who were the "Punk" who put an education first. "Punks" ussaly end up saying education isn't worth it, and end up with jobs like constrution. And yet again I ain't saying thats an always factoid. However, the "Brains" how work hard to get an educations (Or get people to work hard for them) end up going through there way of life, and not just say, "Why am i even going to bother, i could live an easy life like those punks."

For the choice thing, again, read my last two posts. One does NOT choose his/her sexual orientation. S/he can only choose wheter to accept it and live with it, or not. And repressing such a huge part of yourself is, IMHO, unhealthy in the long term.

Wow, I don't think I remember seeing a post so obviously prejudiced against punks.

Punks was an example. Every type of "Group" or "Click" of people tend to follow more like those before them. And by "Punk" I ment all those in the more rebel life style, so that iincludes hard core kids, punk rockers, punk, metal heads... ect. Those kind of people have a tendacy to lean more toward drug use, I'm not saying that all them do, but it is a higher chance. Drug use tends to turn people into lazy people, and people who put the current before the future. Drug use also tends to distrac people from the importaint things that they should be focusing on, like an eduaction or family. "Preps" also have their faults, they tend to be a little more selfish, not all are, and put them selves before importaint things, i hear people say, "I can't go to school today, imy hear, its all messed up. And "Brains" also have faults, lthey tend to stick to them selves, and not make many friends, and i'm not saying its a fact either, but people act like the groups before them, tend to follow the same path.

Fass, I know the following for a fact, not because I read any literature, or followed any study, but because I've experienced it first hand in raising my son.

1. Gender role assignment, and sexual orientation, is apparent at a very early age. Long before puberty.
2. It isn't something that you can change.

People need to accept that it's like having blue eyes, or blond hair. It just the way it is.

I thought I had basically written that. :confused:

Gender or sexual assignment is not a function of puberty.
Well, I've never heard of anyone wanting to have sexual intercourse before they hit puberty, but I suppose it's possible.

First off, children do not mature faster than they did before. If anything, they grow up slower than they did before, they have less responsibilities and they are influenced by peer pressure, by their school environments and the media.
Whether or not children mature emotionally earlier or later has nothing to do with sexual maturity. Children are sexually maturing at earlier ages nowadays.

You people however do.
you people?and who exactly are you people?

you people?and who exactly are you people?

Do you feel targeted?

puberty is based on a combination of age and mass, people who are hevier tend to go through puberty faster, as we get hevier as a population puberty becomes earlier, has any one noticed that small thin people tend to have puberty later while big heavy people have it earlier.
Hmmm... I was small and thin when I reached puberty at 12... Am I just an anomaly in that case? (I'm tall and thin now, because of growth spurts, and I'm not attracted to anyone of either sex. At least, no-one I know in person. And no, I'm not going to tell you which NS posters:p)

bump
Now, what I forgot to mention that I find really interesting is that some gay teenagers no longer prefer to be called gay. It's not that they see it as derogatory, but rather, as an association with a culture they have no interest in. I can see their viewpoint completely. A lot of older gays have joined this culture. I'm sure we see it with the squeeky voices and skin tight pants for men, and women who look like (for lack of a better word) dikes. The perception of our society at large is that all homosexuals are like that. But that sub culture probably emerged because gays needed a sense of belonging they didn't get in the mainstream. Now that they do, many new gays (and some older ones, too) live by their own rules, where the only obvious difference is in attraction.