NationStates Jolt Archive

A poll at CNN asks, “Is it time for England to change its national flag?”

Why in the world would such a thing even be considered?

To avoid offending ... you know who: :rolleyes:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/index.html

How is it that logic and reason have become so twisted that it is accepted practice to include and appease an ideology that is in itself neither inclusive or appeasing? Isn't this a two way street here? Give and take? Work together? Civilized discourse? {chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp.... }

Warning, Fass: all of the Scandenavian flags will have to go, too... :headbang:

slow news week?

Political correctness gone to far. Again. For the unpteenth time.

Perhaps they'll complain about the history books when they realise that England controlled half of the world!

Why, oh why! :headbang:

how very strange,i know the st.georges cross is englands flag,but most people would think of the union jack if someone mentioned the english flag.

and who's really going to be offended by that?oh noez some christians once killed some muslims,we better ban all christian imagery from everywhere so we dont offend the muslims.but wait,didnt some muslims kill some christians during the crusades too?oh noez now we have to bad all the muslim imagery!

Warning, Fass: all of the Scandenavian flags will have to go, too... :headbang:

Why? Ours are all modelled after the Dannebrog, something that this George cross thingee doesn't seem to be. And ours aren't connected at all to the crusades.

I will agree that this is stupid, though.

How about we don't ban our flag. It's good, it looks like a templar cross and everyone knows that the templars are ultracool… :)

However, we SHOULD change our national anthem. Very soon.

Heh ... you'd think they'd change it simply because it would remind them that the Muslims kicked their asses. ;)

Anyway, no, it's a silly reason to change their flag.

and who's really going to be offended by that?oh noez some christians once killed some muslims,we better ban all christian imagery from everywhere so we dont offend the muslims.but wait,didnt some muslims kill some christians during the crusades too?oh noez now we have to bad all the muslim imagery!
It has been proven that Muslims possess sufficient chemical instablity as to explode when offennded, or in contact with to many Jews. Fortunately, this is there only attack and it only affects ground units. However, they only cost 100 minerals and 50 gas to produce and do 500 points of splash damage they can be dangerous in large groups.

Thats ridiculous, truly farcical, why don't we compel the Muslim states to alter their flags since they actually won the crusades?

Why? Ours are all modelled after the Dannebrog, something that this George cross thingee doesn't seem to be. And ours aren't connected at all to the crusades.

I will agree that this is stupid, though.
I do seem to recall that a while back (a year ago or so?) some Scandanavian Schools were forbidding their students to wear "flag pins" because the crosses on them would be "offensive" to the muslim students.

Intersecting Perpendicular Lines are Evil...

Thats ridiculous, truly farcical, why don't we compel the Muslim states to alter their flags since they actually won the crusades? They what? They won? Keep our flag, let it adorn every warrior's shield in the war to come!
*ahem*

It has been proven that Muslims possess sufficient chemical instablity as to explode when offennded, or in contact with to many Jews. Fortunately, this is there only attack and it only affects ground units. However, they only cost 100 minerals and 50 gas to produce and do 500 points of splash damage they can be dangerous in large groups.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I have never in my life heard anything so funny. If I wasn't agruing against you in another thread, you would be my hero.

People ... read the damn article ...

It isn't the Muslims saying it's offensive. It's Anne Owers and the director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding saying it *could be* offensive.

Stop bashing Muslims over this.

It has been proven that Muslims possess sufficient chemical instablity as to explode when offennded, or in contact with to many Jews. Fortunately, this is there only attack and it only affects ground units. However, they only cost 100 minerals and 50 gas to produce and do 500 points of splash damage they can be dangerous in large groups.

true,but thats what the Flying Christian Televangelists are for.thats righ televangelists can fly.you wont doubt the healing power of touching the tv screen while they touch the camera now will you?!

People ... read the damn article ...

It isn't the Muslims saying it's offensive. It's Anne Owers and the director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding saying it *could be* offensive.

Stop bashing Muslims over this.

Why, we find they're hanging a crescent moon flag on British soil and extolling young muslims to kill other Britains offensive,a nd I can assure you there are Muslims who are offended by such insignia.

Heh. I'm Liberal, and I even think that's taking political correctness way too far. Should we just pretend that the Crusades never happened, because there's the possibility that some prisoners might be offended to think people of the same religion as them were once killed? Should we pretend that no wars ever happened? I mean, if the Crusades were a bloody period in Muslim history, then weren't the World Wars a bloody period in Christian history? I don't see anyone suggesting we remove all traces of WW2 from our public facilities. :rolleyes:

Heh. I'm Liberal, and I even think that's taking political correctness way too far. Should we just pretend that the Crusades never happened, because there's the possibility that some prisoners might be offended to think people of the same religion as them were once killed? Should we pretend that no wars ever happened? I mean, if the Crusades were a bloody period in Muslim history, then weren't the World Wars a bloody period in Christian history? I don't see anyone suggesting we remove all traces of WW2 from our public facilities. :rolleyes:

Why thanks, the PC police have a new angle now... :p

Why, we find they're hanging a crescent moon flag on British soil

Strange thing to be offended by.

and extolling young muslims to kill other Britains offensive,

How many Muslims are doing this?

and I can assure you there are Muslims who are offended by such insignia.

I'm sure there are, but they're not part of the article in question. A cursory Google yeilds no Muslim call to ban the St. George Cross.

It has been proven that Muslims possess sufficient chemical instablity as to explode when offennded, or in contact with to many Jews. Fortunately, this is there only attack and it only affects ground units. However, they only cost 100 minerals and 50 gas to produce and do 500 points of splash damage they can be dangerous in large groups.
That explains it! I was walking by my friend's (Aisha) house and suddenly smoke started appearing from two second floor windows.

I do seem to recall that a while back (a year ago or so?) some Scandanavian Schools were forbidding their students to wear "flag pins" because the crosses on them would be "offensive" to the muslim students.

I haven't heard of any such thing, and that would be a violation of the student's rights, to ban such pins.

Not that this has any connection to this matter.

Hey Fass, here it is: http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=139558
(Let me know if my poor interpretation of Swedish is just that - poor & incorrect)

People ... read the damn article ...

It isn't the Muslims saying it's offensive. It's Anne Owers and the director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding saying it *could be* offensive.

Stop bashing Muslims over this.
Actually, I'm bashing stupid Pollitically Correct Government types who are so in fear of offending Muslims that they could even consider such a thing.

When you tolerate everything, the inevitable end result is that you become completely intolerant. Because, eventually, you will tolerate a belief that is itself intolerant of other beliefs, and as a result you will therefore be compelled to suppress all other beliefs in order to tolerate this one belief.

This is the fundamental flaw of multiculturalism and the PC mindset. Because it invariably leads to the LEAST tolerant belief system becoming dominant.

Cultural evolution in action. The west may be the first civilization brought down by whining and the crushing weight of our own stupidity.

Learning is fun: A bit about the UK Flag.
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/flag.html

Strange thing to be offended by.



How many Muslims are doing this?



I'm sure there are, but they're not part of the article in question. A cursory Google yeilds no Muslim call to ban the St. George Cross.

Just a point though, everyone is offended by something, even the perfect left wingers, and simply because one group is ethnic and one not ought not to proffer one precedence and the other subserviance.

I do seem to recall that a while back (a year ago or so?) some Scandanavian Schools were forbidding their students to wear "flag pins" because the crosses on them would be "offensive" to the muslim students.

Intersecting Perpendicular Lines are Evil...
I'd be more concerned with the flag sparking anti-Semitism. :p

Well, what I think is....

{the remainder of this post has been censored by the Hogwarts High Inquisitor}

Just a point though, everyone is offended by something, even the perfect left wingers, and simply because one group is ethnic and one not ought not to proffer one precedence and the other subserviance.

Yes, but bashing Muslims over this particular thing is completely ungrounded. Bash the overly PC government officials in question, not an entire mass of 1.5 billion people who haven't said word one about the flag.

I even said myself, in this very thread, that it was a stupid reason to ban a flag .... and I'm Muslim.

It's all part of the stereotype thing, I suppose.

White people can't dance.
Jews will cheat you in business deals.
Muslims will fly off the handle at an improper sneeze.

*sigh*

Retarded.
When something happens nearly a thousand years ago, people should stop being offended. I mean I could understand it if Germany had kept the Nazi banner, especially since that was only a lifetime ago, but changing a flag because of the crusades?
I'm sorry, but if people are bitching about that, then they need to bury their own graves in the desert and jump in. There's no justification.
Immigrants are NOT supposed to be compensated for all the time. They come to countries, they adapt. Its how it should do - don't expect a country to push aside its own culture because they think it's offensive or pushes against their own. Tough luck, if English Muslims wanted a flag that wouldn't offend, they should have moved to Turkey.

Hey Fass, here it is: http://expressen.se/index.jsp?a=139558
(Let me know if my poor interpretation of Swedish is just that - poor & incorrect)

The ban, which doesn't seem to have stood up, unsurprisingly, had nothing to do with muslims, but with general racism. The apparel worn by the kids in the picture is typically worn by xenophobes and they were sent home. Nationalism is a sensitive issue here, as many see it as an expression of the eugenic ideas that Sweden bears heavily on its conscience. But, again, this had more to do with this "collective shame" and basically nothing with it being a cross or muslims.

I'm sorry, but if people are bitching about that, then they need to bury their own graves in the desert and jump in ... Immigrants ... if English Muslims wanted a flag that wouldn't offend, they should have moved to Turkey.

Once again, read the article. Not one Muslim has expressed offense. Not one.

It's the government.

Hey, the Nazi flag had red, white and black on it. I suppose those colours are racist now!
Oh, wait, black cant be racist!
WARNING! DOES NOT COMPUTE!
ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR!
*head explodes*

White people can't dance.
Haha!

Once again, read the article. Not one Muslim has expressed offense. Not one.

It's the government.

Yet...

The ban, which doesn't seem to have stood up, unsurprisingly, had nothing to do with muslims, but with general racism. The apparel worn by the kids in the picture is typically worn by xenophobes and they were sent home. Nationalism is a sensitive issue here, as many see it as an expression of the eugenic ideas that Sweden bears heavily on its conscience. But, again, this had more to do with this "collective shame" and basically nothing with it being a cross or muslims.
Ah. OK.

A poll at CNN asks, “Is it time for England to change its national flag?”

Must have been a slow work day..

and by work, I mean news...

This is the fundamental flaw of multiculturalism and the PC mindset. Because it invariably leads to the LEAST tolerant belief system becoming dominant.

I don't mind so much multiculturalism. After all, it can make a country great ... just look at the US of A. Seems every weekend around here there's a Greek Festival or an Italian Festival or a new Irish Pub opening up ....

I can drive through Houston and see Thai restaurants with a big ol' Thai flag and go inside and see a giant Buddha and pictures on the walls of great Siamese kings, I see Synagogues with the flag of Israel proudly waving, I see Taqueria's where they fly the Mexican flag and not one of them speaks English (but it's the best damn food you've ever eaten) ... and so on and so on.

Multiculturalism rocks! Thanks to multiculturalism, I can order a beer in 12 languages.

PC? Well ..... you said it yourself:

The west may be the first civilization brought down by whining and the crushing weight of our own stupidity.

:( In 1000 years, history classes are gonna suck.

Ugh! Political Correctness is taken to far some times. What? Will those murdered in the Crusades feel its a violation of their human rights???

Surely there must have been something else CNN could have sent their time reporting...I thought there was a war going on somewhere no?

White people can't dance.
ahem
http://www.thepatwhiteshow.com/images/BEER-WHI_2.jpg

Ah. OK.

Oh, and look here. (http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=139810) The ban wasn't even a ban on the Swedish flag at all, but on three types of sweaters that had motifs for Charles XII (Karl XII), Gustavus Adolphus (Gustav II Adolf), the KKK and the American "Dixie" flag - all symbols widely used by racist and xenophobic hate organisations. The school itself has two flag poles that are used on every national holiday and flag day and the National Anthem is sung on the National Day. Storm in a tea cup, it seems.

I rarely agree with people moaning about "political correctness gone mad" (because they are usually 'respectable' racists), but on this occasion I concur.

Nubs.

Why, we find they're hanging a crescent moon flag on British soil and extolling young muslims to kill other Britains offensive,a nd I can assure you there are Muslims who are offended by such insignia.

Generalising is wonderful, isn't it?

I don't mind so much multiculturalism. After all, it can make a country great ... just look at the US of A. Seems every weekend around here there's a Greek Festival or an Italian Festival or a new Irish Pub opening up ....

I can drive through Houston and see Thai restaurants with a big ol' Thai flag and go inside and see a giant Buddha and pictures on the walls of great Siamese kings, I see Synagogues with the flag of Israel proudly waving, I see Taqueria's where they fly the Mexican flag and not one of them speaks English (but it's the best damn food you've ever eaten) ... and so on and so on.

Multiculturalism rocks! Thanks to multiculturalism, I can order a beer in 12 languages.Well, I would more call that multiethnicisim than "multiculturalisim" because the former, as tongue-tangling as it may be, has not bee co-opted by political correctness and the(ir) assertion(s) that the "Melting pot" of traditional cultural (but, as you point out, not ethnic) assimilation is somehow bad and that the US has no viable or acceptable culture of its own and should be suppressed less it offend. :mad:

White people can't dance.

What about Michael Jackson? and Mr. Cameron Diaz?

Oh, and look here. (http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=139810) The ban wasn't even a ban on the Swedish flag at all, but on three types of sweaters that had motifs for Charles XII (Karl XII), Gustavus Adolphus (Gustav II Adolf), the KKK and the American "Dixie" flag - all symbols widely used by racist and xenophobic hate organisations. The school itself has two flag poles that are used on every national holiday and flag day and the National Anthem is sung on the National Day. Storm in a tea cup, it seems.
Well, I guess that goes to show what happens when you're only mostly illiterate in Swedish yet insist on looking a sites in their non-translated state...

Thanks for the followup.

i hope that for the sake of the futer generations taht the swzica wont be viewd in teh same way

Fuck people that are offended by things.

The people of today have no idea what offended is-just little things that might make them momentarily uncomfortable.
Screw them all.
Get back to work.

Instead of changing the flag, why not just ban all flags?

What a load of hogwash. I threw up no more than 4.36 seconds after reading this article. I will repeat: This is a load of hogwash. Honestly, is there anyone in the world who actually approves of that stain on humanity called political correctness? I hate political correctness almost as much as I hate soggy french fries! Jesus H. Christ! Why doesn't someone just stroll up to the bitches who come up with this political correctness bullshit, and rip them a new one?!

*bursts vein in eyeball out of sheer rage*

Oh for the love of...

St George's Cross is not offensive! It is just symbols. The fact that England participated in the crusades does not mean that they have to change their flag now. They're going to change their flag...which has been the same for a thousand years...over a couple of people who say that certain other people *might* be offended. *I'M* offended by that. I'm a liberal, and I think that this is just totally completely insane. I suppose that now the Crescent should be banned because a couple of Muslims are suicide bombers, or because they killed invading Crusaders during the crusades. Or maybe the Stars and Stripes should be banned because of something the US did (read: Iraq and Vietnam Wars). Perhaps we should be offended at the five-pointed star because it represents Communism in some cases and therefore the US flag should be banned.

Aah, there I went off on a rant again. Please forgive me.

ADDITION: I wouldn't cheat anyone in a business deal myself...but I somewhat share your sentiments that white people can't dance...

Perhaps they'll complain about the history books when they realise that England controlled half of the world!

Uh-huh. That's why it was called 'The British Empire' and was controlled by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland?

And who do you propose ran that Empire, the Welsh? Scots? Irish? You are deluding yourself if you do not realize that England ran the United Kingdom (though admittingly doesn't completely anymore)

And who do you propose ran that Empire, the Welsh? Scots? Irish? You are deluding yourself if you do not realize that England ran the United Kingdom (though admittingly doesn't completely anymore)

Ran then and runs now. The Queen/King of England was the head of the Empire. Now parliment runs Britain and Parliment is primarily Enlgish. curiously the parts of great britian that seek greater independence gain greater control over internal affairs but end up with less influence over the rest of britain... though it may by that time be none of their business.

That's actually what I meant, Fenix

Thats OK i'll put my hands up and say that was hardly one of my greatest posts ever :P.

And who do you propose ran that Empire, the Welsh? Scots? Irish? You are deluding yourself if you do not realize that England ran the United Kingdom (though admittingly doesn't completely anymore)

Thing called 'democracy'. You might have heard of it? Suffrage reforms of 1834?

Ran then and runs now. The Queen/King of England was the head of the Empire.

The English monarch was also the monarch of Wales, Ireland and Scotland, and in fact it was the importation of a Scottish monarch that led to this, not an extention of the realm of the English monarch.

The English monarch was also the monarch of Wales, Ireland and Scotland, and in fact it was the importation of a Scottish monarch that led to this, not an extention of the realm of the English monarch.

Absolutely. James the 6th of Scotland, 1st of England, first of Great Britain.

Oh, and for those of you who beleive that England runs everything in the UK? Take a wee look at the cabinet sometime. And many heads of industry. And the media. The words Taffia and Scotia Nostra didn't come about for no reason. :rolleyes:

And if you think that the Scots and Welsh weren't involved in the Empire (which I wish we hadn't been, the moral high ground would be fabulous), I suggest you read a bit more about India, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada to name but four. Place names and surnames can give you a bit of a clue.

Everyone should just adopt the Canadian flag given I don't think the maple leaf could possibly offend anyone.. :D

Everyone should just adopt the Canadian flag given I don't think the maple leaf could possibly offend anyone.. :D

The Maple Leaf reminds me of Maple Syrup, which reminds me of Pancakes, which reminds me of Rachel Corrie - and the manufactured hullabloo over her stupidity offends me.

See how easy that is? :p

James VI of Scotland was descendant of a line forced down upon Scotland by the English. Therefore, English.

However, that is not the point of this thread. The actual point is, "Is St. George's cross a reason for Muslims to be insulted and should it be changed because of this?"

what a load of piff you aint ever touching the flag, im not english but i still say no!

James VI of Scotland was descendant of a line forced down upon Scotland by the English. Therefore, English.

However, that is not the point of this thread. The actual point is, "Is St. George's cross a reason for Muslims to be insulted and should it be changed because of this?"

Well, if you're going to be a Muslim appeaser, and politically correct, you should realize that the UK flag is a symbol of the British Empire, which, as we know, is just a symbol for colonialism.

If you're going to be silly about it, then you should just change the UK flag to a yellow smiley face. Thereby showing the good will of the UK, and its willingness to smile at everyone and everything, and the yellow will show what a nation of cowards you've become.

Well, if you're going to be a Muslim appeaser, and politically correct, you should realize that the UK flag is a symbol of the British Empire, which, as we know, is just a symbol for colonialism.

If you're going to be silly about it, then you should just change the UK flag to a yellow smiley face. Thereby showing the good will of the UK, and its willingness to smile at everyone and everything, and the yellow will show what a nation of cowards you've become.

As Keruvalia has pointed out (one or two times...) it isn't the muslims who want it changed. I repeat: muslims have no problem with the flag, or, to put it another way, the flag doesn't offend muslims.

Right, I've said it three times now so I will personally spork out the eyes of the next person to complain about muslims destroying english culture.

I suspect that the story's BS anyway :rolleyes:

<snip>I suspect that the story's BS anyway :rolleyes:Then I suggest you actually check it out rather than just "suspecting". A blanket dismissal is exactly what the Loons want.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2981038.stm
Rebranding puts black marks against UK flag
Britain's national flag - the union jack - has been given the makeover treatment, in the hope of reflecting a more modern society.
It's become the marketing executive's remedy for any organisation's ills. From BT to BP, the Labour Party to the Lottery, hardly a business or institution has escaped the rebranding bug.

Now moves are afoot to redesign that most sacred of British hallmarks - the union flag.

Well, if you're going to be a Muslim appeaser, and politically correct, you should realize that the UK flag is a symbol of the British Empire, which, as we know, is just a symbol for colonialism.

If you're going to be silly about it, then you should just change the UK flag to a yellow smiley face. Thereby showing the good will of the UK, and its willingness to smile at everyone and everything, and the yellow will show what a nation of cowards you've become.

The UK flag is not at issue here (other than possibly the St George's Cross which goes towards comprising it).

Retarded.
When something happens nearly a thousand years ago, people should stop being offended. I mean I could understand it if Germany had kept the Nazi banner, especially since that was only a lifetime ago, but changing a flag because of the crusades?
I'm sorry, but if people are bitching about that, then they need to bury their own graves in the desert and jump in. There's no justification.
Immigrants are NOT supposed to be compensated for all the time. They come to countries, they adapt. Its how it should do - don't expect a country to push aside its own culture because they think it's offensive or pushes against their own. Tough luck, if English Muslims wanted a flag that wouldn't offend, they should have moved to Turkey.
ARE U NOT READING THIS THREAD. I will say this v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. It isnt the muslims who are complaining about this, it is some goverment group. I agree that it is a stupid idea but its really got nothing to do with any ethnic groups. Maybe you should re-read that a couple of time. Just to let it sink in.

The UK flag is not at issue here (other than possibly the St George's Cross which goes towards comprising it).
And the Union Jack would be exactly what without the St George's Cross? I mean, you might as well remove St Andrew's Cross and St Patrick's Cross as well. Then the surrender of common sense will be complete... white flag and all.

We're not talking about the UK flag here, we're talking about St. George's cross. Here's the two:

St. George's Cross - http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.swimport.com/flags/F144.JPEG&imgrefurl=http://www.swimport.com/flags/intnl.html&h=309&w=450&sz=4&tbnid=--AGWjimjzsJ:&tbnh=85&tbnw=124&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSt.%2BGeorge%2527s%2BCross%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

Union Jack -
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:MkqYC6aBL3EJ:www.anbg.gov.au/images/flags/union-jack.gif

And I still maintain that the symbol is not necessarily racist

In that case, we'd better change all American national symbols so as not to offend the Vietnamese, Koreans, Japanese, French, Germans, British, Iraqis, Italians, Venezuelans, Cubans, Russians, Afghans, Spanish, Mexicans, Saudi Arabians, and pretty much everyone who isn't Canada.

Then I suggest you actually check it out rather than just "suspecting". A blanket dismissal is exactly what the Loons want.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2981038.stm

Maybe I was unclear, I was suggesting that there was no realistic chance of this happening, I live in England and I've never heard about this story before. I''ve checked the website and I don't think it'll convince many people.

I'm sorry if I caused any confusion.

Leave that for the future. For now, CHANGE THE BRITISH FLAG - cross-pattern display and Imperial attitude.

I'm half-kidding.