NationStates Jolt Archive

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.

You're from Florida. Why am I not surprised that you've experienced this shit before?

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.
Want a crusty old veteran to accompany you? If they try to refuse you service, or worse yet, try to toss you out, they will deeply regret it. Mwahahahaha! :D

You got a witness, I say sue the bastards. Get a good lawyer and the jury will fall head over heals to give you arm-loads of money.

Thats pretty extreme. I have to say I havent heard any type of behavior like that around here in the Northeast. In this century.

You're from Florida. Why am I not surprised that you've experienced this shit before?

I'm actually FROM Detroit, Michigan. I've only lived here in Florida for 5 years and I've experienced a lot of things like this, but I just thought this one stood out because it reminded me of the 40's and 50's.

that is terrible. I am so sorry. I hate ignorant people :mad: I wish I could go around and just smack all the people like that.

What the...I mean...holy crap...i am stunned that somebody would say that. That kind of stuff makes me mad. Very mad. GRRRRR.

Our Ombudsman on Ethnic Discrimination would rip that person a new one...

Want a crusty old veteran to accompany you? If they try to refuse you service, or worse yet, try to toss you out, they will deeply regret it. Mwahahahaha! :D

:p that would be greatly appreciated, but you know these type of people. They can't do anything alone and would probably assemble a racist mob to come after us.

...it reminded me of the 40's and 50's.


How well do you remember the 40's and 50's?

How well do you remember the 40's and 50's?

Very well due to the stories of my great grandmother, grandmother, and my mother.

On the bright side, they could have kept their ignorant mouths shut and done something awful to your food instead. Its better their hateful stupidity manifested itself the way it did. Still shocking.
At the same time, I dont expect to go into the majority of eateries around say, Camden or Trenton, Newark, etc... We cant pretend for a second I would make it out intact. It does go both ways, sometimes you're caught off guard though.

Very well due to the stories of my great grandmother, grandmother, and my mother.

People forget so easily that there are still people alive who were around in the American apartheid state.

People forget so easily that there are still people alive who were around in the American apartheid state.

Exactly, and people expect me to forget all that crap. I don't hold any of it against anyone, but there's no way I'll ever forget it.

On the bright side, they could have kept their ignorant mouths shut and done something awful to your food instead. Its better their hateful stupidity manifested itself the way it did. Still shocking.
At the same time, I dont expect to go into the majority of eateries around say, Camden or Trenton, Newark, etc... We cant pretend for a second I would make it out intact. It does go both ways, sometimes you're caught off guard though.

Yeah that is very true. There is this wafflehouse down here where the employees would serve rotten food that sometimes even had maggots in it to minorities.

I hope nobody forgets it. The quickest way for history to be repeated is if it's forgotten.

Yeah that is very true. There is this wafflehouse down here where the employees would serve rotten food that sometimes even had maggots in it to minorities.

Thats absolutely reprehensible. There is something more cowardly and evil about someone that would tamper with food like that. I have to say, I give more credit to a stupid ignorant hick that doesnt like you and tells you to your face, than a person who would quietly sabotage your food. Both suck.

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.
What fucking restaurant did you eat at … I wish to make sure they also do not receive my money in any way shape or form

Thats absolutely reprehensible. There is something more cowardly and evil about someone that would tamper with food like that. I have to say, I give more credit to a stupid ignorant hick that doesnt like you and tells you to your face, than a person who would quietly sabotage your food. Both suck.

Yes, I have WAY more respect for people who tell me to my face instead of sabotaging stuff in my life, but the amount of respect isn't much.

Ok, I'm white, but the school I go to is about 75% asian. I occasionally get hate letters in my locker, people talking chinese? japanese...? some language behind my back, and I know they are making fun of me by their stares, and also being called "White boy"and "Whitey". Just 3 more years.....just 3 more years....just 3 more.....

Yes, I have WAY more respect for people who tell me to my face instead of sabotaging stuff in my life, but the amount of respect isn't much.

I agree. Well-with the type of mentality that person had, can you imagine the condition of the kitchen? The freshness of the food? The employees washing theiur hands after they used th bathroom?

You may have lucked out....

What fucking restaurant did you eat at … I wish to make sure they also do not receive my money in any way shape or form

It's alright, seriously. I don't want to make a huge deal out of it. Besides this is a hicktown. I live in a apartment complex that has a bunch of different races all living together but the sorrounding neighborhoods are filled up with trailer trash, gun slingin, stereotypical types.

Wow, that's disgraceful. And there are people that think this kind of thing is dead.

I remember helping a friend move in Berkeley, California no less when my friend was waiting by his stuff on the side of the road for me to bring my van around and a cop came by and acussed him of stealing all the stuff. In the middle of the day. At the end of the semester, two blocks from campus.

All the way home he kept calling himself 'The Great Blanket Thief.'

It's not as bad, because the officer never used a slur and ultimately didn't arrest my buddy, but damn.

You got a witness, I say sue the bastards. Get a good lawyer and the jury will fall head over heals to give you arm-loads of money.

FOR WHAT? Calling someone a ****** isn't illegal. Restraunts have the right to refuse service to anyone.

I don't agree with what the bastard said, but he damn well should have the right to say it and he should be able to tell anyone he wants to get the fuck out of his place of business.

People that think it's alright to get to sue people for something they've said (besides the yelling fire in a theatre thing) are what fucks this country's legal system up.

My school was 75 percent black. The word ****** sure didn't bother them. It was always fun to call each other racial slurs.

Examples:

shut the fuck up spear chucker!

shut your cock holster honkey!

wtf are you gonna do about it wagon burner!

It's alright, seriously. I don't want to make a huge deal out of it. Besides this is a hicktown. I live in a apartment complex that has a bunch of different races all living together but the sorrounding neighborhoods are filled up with trailer trash, gun slingin, stereotypical types.
Alright :) I probably wont make it down there for a long time anyways

I agree. Well-with the type of mentality that person had, can you imagine the condition of the kitchen? The freshness of the food? The employees washing theiur hands after they used th bathroom?

You may have lucked out....

I always have that stuff on my mind no matter where I eat, but I just ignore it. Eating out is actually a pretty dirty thing.

If you want to the harsh truth, the blacks are a hell of alot more racist than the whites. I live in Memphis, and I have heard so much shit against white people from blacks that I just can't stand them anymore. A black guy can go on for hours about how stupid white people are. They call them crackers, honkies, and other racist names and no one gives a shit, but if a white guy says "black" or "negro" around a black person, it is racist and they get their ass sued for everything they got. Most of the crime also comes form blacks, true there are alot of whites that are in gangs and stuff, but the majority are blacks. Granted this guy shouldn't have said anything, but i still think he has the right to say what he wants.

If you want to the harsh truth, the blacks are a hell of alot more racist than the whites. I live in Memphis, and I have heard so much shit against white people from blacks that I just can't stand them anymore. A black guy can go on for hours about how stupid white people are. They call them crackers, honkies, and other racist names and no one gives a shit, but if a white guy says "black" or "negro" around a black person, it is racist and they get their ass sued for everything they got. Most of the crime also comes form blacks, true there are alot of whites that are in gangs and stuff, but the majority are blacks. Granted this guy shouldn't have said anything, but i still think he has the right to say what he wants.
Just cause he has a right to say it does not mean it was correct to … or may not be in his best employment interest

Freedom of speech != freedom of consequences

If you want to the harsh truth, the blacks are a hell of alot more racist than the whites. I live in Memphis, and I have heard so much shit against white people from blacks that I just can't stand them anymore. A black guy can go on for hours about how stupid white people are. They call them crackers, honkies, and other racist names and no one gives a shit, but if a white guy says "black" or "negro" around a black person, it is racist and they get their ass sued for everything they got. Most of the crime also comes form blacks, true there are alot of whites that are in gangs and stuff, but the majority are blacks. Granted this guy shouldn't have said anything, but i still think he has the right to say what he wants.

I'll post a little something that Chris Rock said (It's from another one of my posts, get prepared to read people!):


Who's more racist Black people or White people? Black people, because we hate Black people too! Everything white people don't like about black people, black people REALLY don't like about black people. There's some shit going on with black people right now, there's like a civil war going on right now with black people and there's two sides. Black people and Niggers, and niggers have got to go. Everytime black people try to have a good time ignorant ass niggers fuck it up! Can't do SHIT! Can't keep a disco open for more than three weeks, grand opening, grand closing. Can't go to a movie the first week it comes out, why? Cause niggers are shootin at the screen! What kind of ignorant shit is that?! "Hey this is a good movie! It's so good I've got to bust a cap up in here!".

I love black people but boy I hate niggers! I wish they'd let me join the KKK, I'd do a drive by from here to Brooklyn! I'm tired of niggers, you can't have shit when you're around niggers. You can't have no big screen TV, you can have it but you've got to move it in at three in the morning! Paint it white and hope niggers think it's a bassinet! Can't have shit in your house, why? Cause niggers will break in your house! Niggers who live next door to you will break in your house and come over the next day and say "I heard you got robbed!". ****** you know you robbed me! You didn't hear shit cause you was doin shit!

I'm tired of niggers, you know what's the worst thing about niggers? Niggers always want some credit for some shit you're SUPPOSED to do, for some shit that a normal person just does. A ****** will say some shit like "I take care of my kids" You're supposed to you dumb motherfucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that?! "I ain't never been to jail" What you want? A cookie?!! You're not supposed to go to jail you low expectation having motherfucker! You know the worst thing about niggers? The WOOOORST thing about niggers? Niggers love to not know.

Nothing makes a ****** happier than not knowing the answer to your question. Just ask a ****** a question, any ******! What's the capital of Ziare? "I don't know that shit! I'm keepin it real!" Niggers love to keep it real...real dumb! Niggers hate knoweledge, shit! If niggers break in your house and you want to save your money, put it in your books, because niggers don't read! Shit, books are like cryptonite to a ******! Here's a book! "NOOOOOO NOOOOOO NOT A BOOK NOOOOO!!!!!" *falls to the ground in extreme pain*

I'm tired of this shit, you kids can't fuckin play anywhere. Every year the space gets smaller. "ok you go from that corner to that corner, ok you go from that gate to that gate" By the time the motherfucker is 10 they're just hopping in a circle! I'm tired of this shit, tired, tired, tired! Fi fai fo figga boy I hate a nigga! Niggers are ignorant, just singing about ignorance. The other day I heard a song "It's the first of the mooonth!" Niggers are singing welfare carols! "On the first day of welfare my true love gave to meeee..I wish you merry welfare and a happy foodstammmp!" What the fuck is goin on? Now they've got some shit where they're trying to get rid of welfare. Everytime you see welfare you see black people. Black people don't give a FUCK about welfare...niggers are shaking in their boots!

"ooh they're gonna take our shit!" A black man who that has two jobs and goes to work everyday HATES a ****** on welfare and is like "****** get a job! I've got two you can't get one!? I would reccomend you for a position at mine but you would just fuck it up and they'd never hire a black person for another 10 years" Shit, a black woman who has 2 kids and goes to work everyday busting her ass HATES a bitch with 9 kids on welfare, she's like "Bitch get a job! STOP FUCKING! STOP FUCKING! PUT THE DICK DOWN! PUT IT DOWN! GET A JOB! Go get a job, you can even get a job holding dicks, but whatever you do get paid to do it!"

There's not only just black people on welfare, shit there's white people on welfare too. There aren't even that many black people in America, black people are like 10% of the population. There's black people in New York, DC, Chicago, Atlanta, like 10 places. The rest of the 40 states are filled up with broke ass white people. Broke ass, living in a trailer home, eating mayonaise sandwhiches, fucking their sister, while listening to John Cooper Mellencamp records!

I'll post a little something that Chris Rock said (It's from another one of my posts, get prepared to read people!):


Who's more racist Black people or White people? Black people, because we hate Black people too! Everything white people don't like about black people, black people REALLY don't like about black people. There's some shit going on with black people right now, there's like a civil war going on right now with black people and there's two sides. Black people and Niggers, and niggers have got to go. Everytime black people try to have a good time ignorant ass niggers fuck it up! Can't do SHIT! Can't keep a disco open for more than three weeks, grand opening, grand closing. Can't go to a movie the first week it comes out, why? Cause niggers are shootin at the screen! What kind of ignorant shit is that?! "Hey this is a good movie! It's so good I've got to bust a cap up in here!".

I love black people but boy I hate niggers! I wish they'd let me join the KKK, I'd do a drive by from here to Brooklyn! I'm tired of niggers, you can't have shit when you're around niggers. You can't have no big screen TV, you can have it but you've got to move it in at three in the morning! Paint it white and hope niggers think it's a bassinet! Can't have shit in your house, why? Cause niggers will break in your house! Niggers who live next door to you will break in your house and come over the next day and say "I heard you got robbed!". ****** you know you robbed me! You didn't hear shit cause you was doin shit!

I'm tired of niggers, you know what's the worst thing about niggers? Niggers always want some credit for some shit you're SUPPOSED to do, for some shit that a normal person just does. A ****** will say some shit like "I take care of my kids" You're supposed to you dumb motherfucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that?! "I ain't never been to jail" What you want? A cookie?!! You're not supposed to go to jail you low expectation having motherfucker! You know the worst thing about niggers? The WOOOORST thing about niggers? Niggers love to not know.

Nothing makes a ****** happier than not knowing the answer to your question. Just ask a ****** a question, any ******! What's the capital of Ziare? "I don't know that shit! I'm keepin it real!" Niggers love to keep it real...real dumb! Niggers hate knoweledge, shit! If niggers break in your house and you want to save your money, put it in your books, because niggers don't read! Shit, books are like cryptonite to a ******! Here's a book! "NOOOOOO NOOOOOO NOT A BOOK NOOOOO!!!!!" *falls to the ground in extreme pain*

I'm tired of this shit, you kids can't fuckin play anywhere. Every year the space gets smaller. "ok you go from that corner to that corner, ok you go from that gate to that gate" By the time the motherfucker is 10 they're just hopping in a circle! I'm tired of this shit, tired, tired, tired! Fi fai fo figga boy I hate a nigga! Niggers are ignorant, just singing about ignorance. The other day I heard a song "It's the first of the mooonth!" Niggers are singing welfare carols! "On the first day of welfare my true love gave to meeee..I wish you merry welfare and a happy foodstammmp!" What the fuck is goin on? Now they've got some shit where they're trying to get rid of welfare. Everytime you see welfare you see black people. Black people don't give a FUCK about welfare...niggers are shaking in their boots!

"ooh they're gonna take our shit!" A black man who that has two jobs and goes to work everyday HATES a ****** on welfare and is like "****** get a job! I've got two you can't get one!? I would reccomend you for a position at mine but you would just fuck it up and they'd never hire a black person for another 10 years" Shit, a black woman who has 2 kids and goes to work everyday busting her ass HATES a bitch with 9 kids on welfare, she's like "Bitch get a job! STOP FUCKING! STOP FUCKING! PUT THE DICK DOWN! PUT IT DOWN! GET A JOB! Go get a job, you can even get a job holding dicks, but whatever you do get paid to do it!"

There's not only just black people on welfare, shit there's white people on welfare too. There aren't even that many black people in America, black people are like 10% of the population. There's black people in New York, DC, Chicago, Atlanta, like 10 places. The rest of the 40 states are filled up with broke ass white people. Broke ass, living in a trailer home, eating mayonaise sandwhiches, fucking their sister, while listening to John Cooper Mellencamp records!


LOL ... hehe know i m neither black nor white, but that is funny ... Chris Rocks is one of my fave comedians... up there with Seinfeld

everyones a little racist not one person here could say they have never said any racist term. you just got deal with people who dont accept you and move on. your not gonna change people who are racist no matter how hard you try so fuck it and fuck them. and to whoever that idiot is whos like you cant sue them for being racist you sure as hell can. if your denied something for race you could sue them. its the same for a job if someone denies you a job and you can prove its cause they are a racist you can sue the fuck outa them.

everyones a little racist not one person here could say they have never said any racist term. you just got deal with people who dont accept you and move on. your not gonna change people who are racist no matter how hard you try so fuck it and fuck them. and to whoever that idiot is whos like you cant sue them for being racist you sure as hell can. if your denied something for race you could sue them. its the same for a job if someone denies you a job and you can prove its cause they are a racist you can sue the fuck outa them.
So what we should just give up hope just cause its hard?
Fuck that

everyones a little racist not one person here could say they have never said any racist term. you just got deal with people who dont accept you and move on. your not gonna change people who are racist no matter how hard you try so fuck it and fuck them. and to whoever that idiot is whos like you cant sue them for being racist you sure as hell can. if your denied something for race you could sue them. its the same for a job if someone denies you a job and you can prove its cause they are a racist you can sue the fuck outa them.
being denied a job is different than being denied service. haven't you ever been in a restraunt that has the big sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.
That's pretty fucked up. Well as Dr Martin Luther King Jr said "Beat that damn ass craker down!" Well not really, but you still should.

LOL ... hehe know i m neither black nor white, but that is funny ... Chris Rocks is one of my fave comedians... up there with Seinfeld

Seinfeld just states the obvious, he's jokes suck, but his show is awesome.

I am glad I do not see shit like that in Canada. We've got hicks, and we've got some severely rascist ones too, but for the most part they're fewer in number than "South o' the border."

Someone here mentioned the Asian-majority high school. I've experianced something like that. Although it doesn't belong here, I'd like to share what happened yesterday.

I was walking along that particular neighbourhood and they know I don't speak a word of Chinese or Japanese, other than what you learn if you're studying bujutsu / budo, but they figured this'd be OK.

Sent a girl who was maybe 12-14 up to me, and screamed "OPPAI!" in my face. For the record, 'oppai' means breast. It's a game they like to play; 'throw random words at that white kid over there and see how he / she reacts.' I knew what oppai meant at the time. I had just come from a drugstore. Why is this important?

I had a tube of toothpaste. Colgate, no less. I pull this out of the bag, smack her in the side of the face with it, and scream "COLGATE, MOTHERFUCKER!"

Even the police thought it was funny.

It's too bad that in America, you'd catch a double-barrel load of 00 buckshot upside the head for that kinda thing.

I don't mind racist I think its funny. I laugh when people are racist towards me and towards others.

I just hate people who call me by the wrong race. Once some stupid rednecks called me chinese in Wal-mart, but I'm from Bosnia. And, once in gym class we were running and some redneck said 'did you run like that when you crossed the border to get here.'Shit I looked as white as him, I'm not Mexican.

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.

See, that's when you sit down anyways and demand to be served. Just don't eat the food because the waiter would probably spit in it.

That kind of shit happens to me every once in a while here in North Carolina too, and I found that some rights are meaningless unless you stand up for them. Yeah I've done some stupid things and made more of some situations than was warranted, but that's far preferable to letting myself get steamrolled by the world.

I say get some friends of yours, go back there and stage a sit-in. Don't get mad but firmly demand equality.

:sniper: persons are very ignorant I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.

In art class once, my friend (Who we shall call... Sajia) and I ended up sitting by a jerk at my school (Who we shall call... Jerk-ums) while working on these box poetry things.

Anyways, we ended up all three of us on our feet, in an argument, and Jerk-ums, out of the blue, decides that he's going to attacking my religion (I'm Episcopalian) and Sajia's (She's Islamic).

Me: Sit down! I don't want to end up in a two hour, and if I do, you'll be sorry, short one! ((Comment made because I'm the third tallest in my grade))
J-ums: Are you threatening me, Satan's hoe?
Me: Who're you callin' Satanic?
J-Ums: You and your little muslim bitch.


When reported to the school, the asshole didn't even get a detention.

I hate it here.

People forget so easily that there are still people alive who were around in the American apartheid state.
I am one of those from the American apartheid era. Raised in the northeast, I had never experienced that kind of maliciously ignorant behavior until I went south (to Texas by bus) one summer. The behavior of 'ordinary' people toward African Americans (Mexican Americans, Amerindians, etc.) was enough to make me sick. If it had even occurred to me to act or say something against anyone because of his/her skin color, I know that my father's reaction would have been swift and severe. It is then that I realized that the USA was a land of very different cultures, and I thanked the fates (and still do) that I was not a part of theirs.

I would sue that diner for all it is worth. That kind of behavior cannot be tolerated.

everyones a little racist not one person here could say they have never said any racist term. you just got deal with people who dont accept you and move on. your not gonna change people who are racist no matter how hard you try so fuck it and fuck them. and to whoever that idiot is whos like you cant sue them for being racist you sure as hell can. if your denied something for race you could sue them. its the same for a job if someone denies you a job and you can prove its cause they are a racist you can sue the fuck outa them.

I have never used a 'racist term.' If I had, I know that I would have had the taste of Ivory soap in my mouth for a month.

Unfortunately racism will never truly dissapear, I guess it's human nature to fear anything that's different. Don't let it get to you, ignorance exists everywhere, but still makes me glad I decided not to go to College in the Southeast.

the big thing to rember is that when you get to the bottom of them everyone has an asshole :D :D

said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Dude ... I would have sooo waited for that place to be crowded and then ran in with a lumpy vest with wires in it and screamed "ALLAH AKHBAR!!!!" just to watch the white people flee and wet themselves.

the big thing to rember is that when you get to the bottom of them everyone has an asshole :D :D
I have feet.

That makes me happy.. 'Screamed "ALLAH AKHBAR"'

Happy happy happy :p

Dude ... I would have sooo waited for that place to be crowded and then ran in with a lumpy vest with wires in it and screamed "ALLAH AKHBAR!!!!" just to watch the white people flee and wet themselves.
That would be sweet, at least until you got shot by some dumbass cop with an itchy trigger finger. Then it would suck. But before then, it would be sweet.

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.

Jesus, what a bunch of bullshit! I would, if I were your friend, invoke her rights under The Civil rights Act of 1964. It is, as I'm sure you know, illegal to discriminate in employment, housing, or public accomadtions based upon race, among other things...and that is because of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. She has recourse against the restaurant owner. And she has you as a witness to the events.

I know how you feel, because I, too, have suffered a lot of discrimination in my life. Unfortunately for me...I do not have legal recourse, in most cases...unlike your friend, who DOES have legal recourse.

I'm a transsexual. I constantly get harassed, denied access to public accomodations, and I'm pretty sure that my long string of unemployment is at least partly due to discrimination. Unfortunately for me...the law doesn't seem to give a shit about me, and the people who are supposed to represent me in local, state, and Federal government won't grow a backbone, and stand up to tell these people that discrimination against me is also wrong.

I guess it's okay to discriminate against "freaks" like me, though. Not to discount or dismiss what happened to your friend, because it is, nonetheless humiliating, demoralizing, and just plain wrong...but at least your friend has recourse. Usually, I don't.

It has been determined several times that the sex-discrimination aspects of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 do not apply to me, because, to them, I'm neither a man, nor a woman. (I am, in fact, a post-operative transsexual who is now fully female...but in many places, the law still does not see me that way.)

Likewise, in places where sexual orientation has been added to the protected classes of people against whom it is illegal to discriminate...it has been ruled time and again, that those provisions likewise do not apply to me, because I'm not homosexual. After all, since I'm neither a man, nor a woman...to them - how could I possibly be gay? So that doesn't protect me, either.

In fact, one time, I was even told in a workplace, I had no basis for a sexual harassment complaint. The reason? Because a man can commit sexual harassment against either a man or a woman...and a woman can commit sexual harassment against a man or a woman...but, in my case, I'm neither a man nor a woman....therefore, it is perfectly okay for either a man or a woman to sexually harass me, and I, again, have no recourse.

Seems they always want to give me the short end of the stick. In a workplace, they want to consider me a woman, so they can pay me less...until I have a sexual harassment complaint....then I'm suddenly neither male nor female....then again, if I want to marry a man...suddenly, they want to consider me a man, and tell me I can't marry a man, because it would be a same-sex marriage (never mind the fact that I am fully functioning as any post-menopausal woman would be....or as any woman who had undergone a total hysterectomy would be.)

Seems they always want to consider me to belong to whatever group is the least advantageous for me, given the situation. And there is no uniformity in my identification, or in the laws pertaining to same. Example, in New Jersey, a transsexual woman was found to be a woman, and her ex-husband forced to pay her alimony, in spite of the fact that he used her transsexuality as a grounds for divorce. Whereas, in Texas, a transsexual woman, and wife of a man killed by medical malpractice...was ruled to be a man, thus in an illegal same-sex marriage that the state then annulled...and then it was ruled that, since she was never married to the man in question...she had no grounds to sue the doctor. Never mind the fact that the man in question had known before the marriage, his wife transsexual status. Never mind the fact that they had been married for seven years, and had even filed joint tax returns! And here's the beauty part - when they later found some errors in the very same tax returns (under-reporting of husband's income) they came after the transsexual to pay the difference! And she had to pay it - even though she, supposedly now, legally...had never been married to the man. she had no standing to sue the doctor who caused her husband's death...yet she was responsible for errors on her husband's tax return! How fucking fair is that!??!

The only thing that ever does protect people like me are laws specifically outlawing discrimination based on GENDER IDENTITY...as such laws are few and far between.

so, not to minimize your friend's experience, but at least SHE has legal recourse! Imagine being me...suffering the degradation, the humiliation, and the loss of dignity that goes with being a victim of discrimination....AND having no legal recourse, either!

Your firend should sue the shit out of the restaurant. discrimination sucks. And until we take a stand against it, it will keep happening!

And, in closing, I'd just like to point out that...many of the people who practice discrimination, are themselves protected from discrimination, on the basis of RELIGION!! I love it...the biggest perpetrators of discrimination are themselves protected from discrimination! And they claim it is not valid for us to be protected, because our lifestyle is a "choice." And religion isn't?? People change religions all the time, yet that is a choice worthy of being protected from discrimination, and my so-called "choice" is not? You gotta love it!

It just pisses me off so badly! My point to all of this?? YOU have legal recourse. Use it. Help me fight so that, when I suffer...I, too, one day, will have legal recourse. Discrimination against anyone, for any reason...is just plain wrong and should be stopped.

Oh, and I just love the people who say I oughta "stick to my own kind." What they mean by that, of course, is that people like me ought to start our own businesses. With what? Most of us are dirt-poor, because we have suffered discrimination all our lives! And what if I DID open a business of my own? I couldn't hire only transsexuals like myself, even if I wanted to. I couldn't refuse to hire a fundamentalist fuckhead, because they would be protected from discrimination...and I'd be forced to hire the fuckhead who would make life hell for me and for all the rest of my putative transsexual employees!

Don't you just LOVE the way the system is set up?!?! It's fucking completely stacked against anyone that society considers "undesireable."

Exactly, and people expect me to forget all that crap. I don't hold any of it against anyone, but there's no way I'll ever forget it.

Can't blame you there! No one who has ever been touched by discrimination should forget it. Or forgive it, either!

I know I sure as hell am not going to ever forgive those who have discriminated against me through the years! Or forget the treatment I got at their hands! And, if ever the chance presents itself for me to get even, bet your ass I'm gonna!

FOR WHAT? Calling someone a ****** isn't illegal. Restraunts have the right to refuse service to anyone.

I don't agree with what the bastard said, but he damn well should have the right to say it and he should be able to tell anyone he wants to get the fuck out of his place of business.

People that think it's alright to get to sue people for something they've said (besides the yelling fire in a theatre thing) are what fucks this country's legal system up.



Obviously written by a white, heterosexual Christian male who never experienced discrimination....but probably sure as hell would love to dish it out...and maybe even has!

Jesus, what a bunch of bullshit! I would, if I were your friend, invoke her rights under The Civil rights Act of 1964. It is, as I'm sure you know, illegal to discriminate in employment, housing, or public accomadtions based upon race, among other things...and that is because of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. She has recourse against the restaurant owner. And she has you as a witness to the events.

I know how you feel, because I, too, have suffered a lot of discrimination in my life. Unfortunately for me...I do not have legal recourse, in most cases...unlike your friend, who DOES have legal recourse.

I'm a transsexual. I constantly get harassed, denied access to public accomodations, and I'm pretty sure that my long string of unemployment is at least partly due to discrimination. Unfortunately for me...the law doesn't seem to give a shit about me, and the people who are supposed to represent me in local, state, and Federal government won't grow a backbone, and stand up to tell these people that discrimination against me is also wrong.

I guess it's okay to discriminate against "freaks" like me, though. Not to discount or dismiss what happened to your friend, because it is, nonetheless humiliating, demoralizing, and just plain wrong...but at least your friend has recourse. Usually, I don't.

It has been determined several times that the sex-discrimination aspects of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 do not apply to me, because, to them, I'm neither a man, nor a woman. (I am, in fact, a post-operative transsexual who is now fully female...but in many places, the law still does not see me that way.)

Likewise, in places where sexual orientation has been added to the protected classes of people against whom it is illegal to discriminate...it has been ruled time and again, that those provisions likewise do not apply to me, because I'm not homosexual. After all, since I'm neither a man, nor a woman...to them - how could I possibly be gay? So that doesn't protect me, either.

In fact, one time, I was even told in a workplace, I had no basis for a sexual harassment complaint. The reason? Because a man can commit sexual harassment against either a man or a woman...and a woman can commit sexual harassment against a man or a woman...but, in my case, I'm neither a man nor a woman....therefore, it is perfectly okay for either a man or a woman to sexually harass me, and I, again, have no recourse.

Seems they always want to give me the short end of the stick. In a workplace, they want to consider me a woman, so they can pay me less...until I have a sexual harassment complaint....then I'm suddenly neither male nor female....then again, if I want to marry a man...suddenly, they want to consider me a man, and tell me I can't marry a man, because it would be a same-sex marriage (never mind the fact that I am fully functioning as any post-menopausal woman would be....or as any woman who had undergone a total hysterectomy would be.)

Seems they always want to consider me to belong to whatever group is the least advantageous for me, given the situation. And there is no uniformity in my identification, or in the laws pertaining to same. Example, in New Jersey, a transsexual woman was found to be a woman, and her ex-husband forced to pay her alimony, in spite of the fact that he used her transsexuality as a grounds for divorce. Whereas, in Texas, a transsexual woman, and wife of a man killed by medical malpractice...was ruled to be a man, thus in an illegal same-sex marriage that the state then annulled...and then it was ruled that, since she was never married to the man in question...she had no grounds to sue the doctor. Never mind the fact that the man in question had known before the marriage, his wife transsexual status. Never mind the fact that they had been married for seven years, and had even filed joint tax returns! And here's the beauty part - when they later found some errors in the very same tax returns (under-reporting of husband's income) they came after the transsexual to pay the difference! And she had to pay it - even though she, supposedly now, legally...had never been married to the man. she had no standing to sue the doctor who caused her husband's death...yet she was responsible for errors on her husband's tax return! How fucking fair is that!??!

The only thing that ever does protect people like me are laws specifically outlawing discrimination based on GENDER IDENTITY...as such laws are few and far between.

so, not to minimize your friend's experience, but at least SHE has legal recourse! Imagine being me...suffering the degradation, the humiliation, and the loss of dignity that goes with being a victim of discrimination....AND having no legal recourse, either!

Your firend should sue the shit out of the restaurant. discrimination sucks. And until we take a stand against it, it will keep happening!

And, in closing, I'd just like to point out that...many of the people who practice discrimination, are themselves protected from discrimination, on the basis of RELIGION!! I love it...the biggest perpetrators of discrimination are themselves protected from discrimination! And they claim it is not valid for us to be protected, because our lifestyle is a "choice." And religion isn't?? People change religions all the time, yet that is a choice worthy of being protected from discrimination, and my so-called "choice" is not? You gotta love it!

It just pisses me off so badly! My point to all of this?? YOU have legal recourse. Use it. Help me fight so that, when I suffer...I, too, one day, will have legal recourse. Discrimination against anyone, for any reason...is just plain wrong and should be stopped.

Oh, and I just love the people who say I oughta "stick to my own kind." What they mean by that, of course, is that people like me ought to start our own businesses. With what? Most of us are dirt-poor, because we have suffered discrimination all our lives! And what if I DID open a business of my own? I couldn't hire only transsexuals like myself, even if I wanted to. I couldn't refuse to hire a fundamentalist fuckhead, because they would be protected from discrimination...and I'd be forced to hire the fuckhead who would make life hell for me and for all the rest of my putative transsexual employees!

Don't you just LOVE the way the system is set up?!?! It's fucking completely stacked against anyone that society considers "undesireable."


That.. Made.. My.. Day.. Wow. And it's only been my day for 45 minutes... Damn.

If you want to the harsh truth, the blacks are a hell of alot more racist than the whites. I live in Memphis, and I have heard so much shit against white people from blacks that I just can't stand them anymore. A black guy can go on for hours about how stupid white people are. They call them crackers, honkies, and other racist names and no one gives a shit, but if a white guy says "black" or "negro" around a black person, it is racist and they get their ass sued for everything they got. Most of the crime also comes form blacks, true there are alot of whites that are in gangs and stuff, but the majority are blacks. Granted this guy shouldn't have said anything, but i still think he has the right to say what he wants.

I think you're wrong about that...but...even if you are right, and blacks ARE more racist than whites, can you fucking blame them? After the way they have been shit on for centuries, can you BLAME them? As a victim of constant discrimination...and as a person who often has no recourse to do anything about the discrimination directed at me...I can fully understand their rage, and their anger.

You, sir, obviously never experienced REAL discrimination! So someone called you a "cracker?" Well, cry me a fucking river!! When you get denied a place to live...or a job...or medical treatment...just because you are a representative of some hated minority group...then talk to me. Until then, cry me a river about being called a "honky." I have, at different times in my life, been denied jobs, housing, and yes, even medical treatment...because of what I am. Can you say that? Until you can, you get no sympathy from me! So your poor little feelings got hurt because someone called you a "whitey??"

Awwwwwww!!

Let me break out my violin, and I'll play "My Heart Pumps Puprle Piss For You" on it!

Jesus, what a bunch of bullshit! I would, if I were your friend, invoke her rights under The Civil rights Act of 1964. It is, as I'm sure you know, illegal to discriminate in employment, housing, or public accomadtions based upon race, among other things...and that is because of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. She has recourse against the restaurant owner. And she has you as a witness to the events.

I know how you feel, because I, too, have suffered a lot of discrimination in my life. Unfortunately for me...I do not have legal recourse, in most cases...unlike your friend, who DOES have legal recourse.

I'm a transsexual. I constantly get harassed, denied access to public accomodations, and I'm pretty sure that my long string of unemployment is at least partly due to discrimination. Unfortunately for me...the law doesn't seem to give a shit about me, and the people who are supposed to represent me in local, state, and Federal government won't grow a backbone, and stand up to tell these people that discrimination against me is also wrong.

I guess it's okay to discriminate against "freaks" like me, though. Not to discount or dismiss what happened to your friend, because it is, nonetheless humiliating, demoralizing, and just plain wrong...but at least your friend has recourse. Usually, I don't.

It has been determined several times that the sex-discrimination aspects of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 do not apply to me, because, to them, I'm neither a man, nor a woman. (I am, in fact, a post-operative transsexual who is now fully female...but in many places, the law still does not see me that way.)

Likewise, in places where sexual orientation has been added to the protected classes of people against whom it is illegal to discriminate...it has been ruled time and again, that those provisions likewise do not apply to me, because I'm not homosexual. After all, since I'm neither a man, nor a woman...to them - how could I possibly be gay? So that doesn't protect me, either.

In fact, one time, I was even told in a workplace, I had no basis for a sexual harassment complaint. The reason? Because a man can commit sexual harassment against either a man or a woman...and a woman can commit sexual harassment against a man or a woman...but, in my case, I'm neither a man nor a woman....therefore, it is perfectly okay for either a man or a woman to sexually harass me, and I, again, have no recourse.

Seems they always want to give me the short end of the stick. In a workplace, they want to consider me a woman, so they can pay me less...until I have a sexual harassment complaint....then I'm suddenly neither male nor female....then again, if I want to marry a man...suddenly, they want to consider me a man, and tell me I can't marry a man, because it would be a same-sex marriage (never mind the fact that I am fully functioning as any post-menopausal woman would be....or as any woman who had undergone a total hysterectomy would be.)

Seems they always want to consider me to belong to whatever group is the least advantageous for me, given the situation. And there is no uniformity in my identification, or in the laws pertaining to same. Example, in New Jersey, a transsexual woman was found to be a woman, and her ex-husband forced to pay her alimony, in spite of the fact that he used her transsexuality as a grounds for divorce. Whereas, in Texas, a transsexual woman, and wife of a man killed by medical malpractice...was ruled to be a man, thus in an illegal same-sex marriage that the state then annulled...and then it was ruled that, since she was never married to the man in question...she had no grounds to sue the doctor. Never mind the fact that the man in question had known before the marriage, his wife transsexual status. Never mind the fact that they had been married for seven years, and had even filed joint tax returns! And here's the beauty part - when they later found some errors in the very same tax returns (under-reporting of husband's income) they came after the transsexual to pay the difference! And she had to pay it - even though she, supposedly now, legally...had never been married to the man. she had no standing to sue the doctor who caused her husband's death...yet she was responsible for errors on her husband's tax return! How fucking fair is that!??!

The only thing that ever does protect people like me are laws specifically outlawing discrimination based on GENDER IDENTITY...as such laws are few and far between.

so, not to minimize your friend's experience, but at least SHE has legal recourse! Imagine being me...suffering the degradation, the humiliation, and the loss of dignity that goes with being a victim of discrimination....AND having no legal recourse, either!

Your firend should sue the shit out of the restaurant. discrimination sucks. And until we take a stand against it, it will keep happening!

And, in closing, I'd just like to point out that...many of the people who practice discrimination, are themselves protected from discrimination, on the basis of RELIGION!! I love it...the biggest perpetrators of discrimination are themselves protected from discrimination! And they claim it is not valid for us to be protected, because our lifestyle is a "choice." And religion isn't?? People change religions all the time, yet that is a choice worthy of being protected from discrimination, and my so-called "choice" is not? You gotta love it!

It just pisses me off so badly! My point to all of this?? YOU have legal recourse. Use it. Help me fight so that, when I suffer...I, too, one day, will have legal recourse. Discrimination against anyone, for any reason...is just plain wrong and should be stopped.

Oh, and I just love the people who say I oughta "stick to my own kind." What they mean by that, of course, is that people like me ought to start our own businesses. With what? Most of us are dirt-poor, because we have suffered discrimination all our lives! And what if I DID open a business of my own? I couldn't hire only transsexuals like myself, even if I wanted to. I couldn't refuse to hire a fundamentalist fuckhead, because they would be protected from discrimination...and I'd be forced to hire the fuckhead who would make life hell for me and for all the rest of my putative transsexual employees!

Don't you just LOVE the way the system is set up?!?! It's fucking completely stacked against anyone that society considers "undesireable."

I hear ya, I most certainly do. It's just rather hard to accept that reality is actually this way. I'm only 17 and I've seen some of the ugliest parts of people and only lately have I learned not to take it so seriously, but when it's a situation like the one you have and there's no course of action for you to take for discrimination I can't help but be angered. Damn society.

being denied a job is different than being denied service. haven't you ever been in a restraunt that has the big sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"
They have no right, however, to refuse service based on race. The 1964 Civil Rights Act says so. Fuck the restaurant owner, he needs to have his ass sued off!

See, that's when you sit down anyways and demand to be served. Just don't eat the food because the waiter would probably spit in it.

That kind of shit happens to me every once in a while here in North Carolina too, and I found that some rights are meaningless unless you stand up for them. Yeah I've done some stupid things and made more of some situations than was warranted, but that's far preferable to letting myself get steamrolled by the world.

I say get some friends of yours, go back there and stage a sit-in. Don't get mad but firmly demand equality.

Damn right! You gotta stand up for yourself sometimes! I remember one time, about two months ago. I was at a bingo hall with my mom. We go nearly every Friday and play Bingo. That is our time together, and, to me, it is very precious, because I lost my dad six and a half years ago, and I'm mindful that there are more years behind for my mom, than there are years ahead, and I intend to make the most of those years that are left (my mom is now 59.)

Anyway, one night, during Intermission, I went to use the ladies' room. Some bitch grabbed my arm, and tried to pull me out of there, demanding that I use the men's restroom. Well, I near hauled off and bitch-slapped her for grabbing my arm. Glad I didn't, because there weren't many witnesses, and you never know whose side they will take in such a situation.

Well, I used the facilities and came out. This woman followed me, screeching after me, and making a scene. So, I stormed back to where I had been sitting with my mom, pulled out my driver's license, and shoved it in her face, pointing out where it said "Sex: F." She said, loud enough for the whole hall to hear...I don't care what that thing says, you're a man! (Now I might point out here that I have a large build, and a deep voice for a woman, so I certainly have zero chance of winning any beuaty pageants) but I wasn't about to take her bullshit. I screamed right back at her that I was a transsexual, and asked her if she'd ever heard of one. she said she didn't care what I was, and she insisted I use the men's restroom, and I told her no fucking way was I gonna do that, and then I offered to drop my pants right there, to prove to her I was female.

Well, you coulda heard a pin drop in that bingo hall!! Fortunately, it didn't come to that, but I was prepared to! The employees of the bingo hall broke us apart. Then, they took my side, and defended me. My mom called the woman "an unmitigated bitch" and told her if she ever laid a hand on me again she would knock her on her ass! Then, several of the patrons of the bingo hall also came to me defense. NO ONE...and I mean NO ONE took the bitch's side. and we still go to the same bingo hall every week now. And no one bothers me, anymore. In fact, a lot of the patrons have become friends with me now, as a result of the incident...they are always asking if I'm doing okay, etc, etc, etc.

None of that would have happened if I hadn't stood up for myself.

the big thing to rember is that when you get to the bottom of them everyone has an asshole :D :D

Yeah...and when you get down to the bottom of every racist, you discover that they ARE assholes!

That.. Made.. My.. Day.. Wow. And it's only been my day for 45 minutes... Damn.

Glad to be of service! :D Mind me asking exactly what part of that made your day?

I'm so sorry...and you really should sue.

I hear ya, I most certainly do. It's just rather hard to accept that reality is actually this way. I'm only 17 and I've seen some of the ugliest parts of people and only lately have I learned not to take it so seriously, but when it's a situation like the one you have and there's no course of action for you to take for discrimination I can't help but be angered. Damn society.

Yep. I often get no choice but to swallow my anger. I get no recourse. But, sometimes, I take my own recourse, as you can see from the bingo-hall story before this post. I have my way of getting my own back sometimes.

But it still damn well sucks that I get no recourse of any kind, in most cases.

I'll give you another story of getting my own back, you might enjoy it...

I was leaving work, at the time I worked second shift. I was low on gas, and had already planned on going to a particular gas station after work, since they had the cheapest gas in town...at the time, 94 cents a gallon (believe it or not, this was ONLY three years ago, and down in Austin, Texas!!)

Well, everyone and their uncle also decided to get gas...and at this particular station, because it was so cheap. Well, all eight pumps are lined up with people waiting for gas. Little bitch in an SUV in front of me fills up, and THEN...proceeds to wash all her windows, holding up the line.

I yelled at her to pull up, freeing up the pump, and then wash her windows...or that she shoulda done it while her tank was filling up. I told her it was extremely discourteous what she was doing.

Well, she had registered that I was a transsexual...or she maybe thought I was a crossdresser, I don't know for sure what she thought...but I was well-dressed and groomed, since I had just gotten off work in a professional office. (Normally, I just wear jeans and tops unless I'm at work, and tend to present an androgynous appearance, just to avoid confrontations.)

"Shut up, girly-man!" screamed the little bitch at me. "How original! Is that the best insult you can come up with, you inconsiderate bitch?" I yelled back.

Her: Fuck you, girly-man!!
Me: Was that an offer?
Her: Fuck you, girly-man!!
Me: Shit, that's the second time you've offered! Hell, I wish you'd offered that before I went and spent thousands of dollars on surgery...because if I ever DID fuck YOUR skanky little ass, my cock woulda turned black and fallen off of it's own accord, and I coulda saved all that money!

With that, everyone else in line for gas...and those pumping gas...as one, broke out laughing like hell. At that point the girl in the SUV had to leave with her tail between her legs. She threw the squeegie at me, slammed her truck door, and took off.

The best part? Someone got her license number and called the cops. They tracked her down, and asked me if I wanted to press assault charges. I told them no, thanks...she'd already gotten beaten down once. and since the squeegie hadn't in fact hit me...it was a situation where the battle wasn't worth it, as I'd already won the war!

I'm actually FROM Detroit, Michigan. I've only lived here in Florida for 5 years and I've experienced a lot of things like this, but I just thought this one stood out because it reminded me of the 40's and 50's.

Reminds me of that scene from the Jesse Owens movie.

Also of a passage from Jesse Helms memoirs where he says something along the lines of "we'll never know how integration in the South might have been peacefully accomplished without the interference of alien agitators..." By which he meant the Freedom Riders. I think that this story shows exactly how it would have been accomplished without them. Belatedly.

Which in turn reminds me of that story from The Onion about the South postponing "rising again" for yet another year.

Well, she had registered that I was a transsexual...or she maybe thought I was a crossdresser, I don't know for sure what she thought...but I was well-dressed and groomed, since I had just gotten off work in a professional office. (Normally, I just wear jeans and tops unless I'm at work, and tend to present an androgynous appearance, just to avoid confrontations.)

"Shut up, girly-man!" screamed the little bitch at me. "How original! Is that the best insult you can come up with, you inconsiderate bitch?" I yelled back.

I thought that the traditional line was "honey, I'm more woman than you'll ever be and more man than you'll ever get."

Jesus, what a bunch of bullshit! I would, if I were your friend, invoke her rights under The Civil rights Act of 1964. It is, as I'm sure you know, illegal to discriminate in employment, housing, or public accomadtions based upon race, among other things...and that is because of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. She has recourse against the restaurant owner. And she has you as a witness to the events.

I know how you feel, because I, too, have suffered a lot of discrimination in my life. Unfortunately for me...I do not have legal recourse, in most cases...unlike your friend, who DOES have legal recourse.

I'm a transsexual. I constantly get harassed, denied access to public accomodations, and I'm pretty sure that my long string of unemployment is at least partly due to discrimination. Unfortunately for me...the law doesn't seem to give a shit about me, and the people who are supposed to represent me in local, state, and Federal government won't grow a backbone, and stand up to tell these people that discrimination against me is also wrong.

I guess it's okay to discriminate against "freaks" like me, though. Not to discount or dismiss what happened to your friend, because it is, nonetheless humiliating, demoralizing, and just plain wrong...but at least your friend has recourse. Usually, I don't.

It has been determined several times that the sex-discrimination aspects of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 do not apply to me, because, to them, I'm neither a man, nor a woman. (I am, in fact, a post-operative transsexual who is now fully female...but in many places, the law still does not see me that way.)

Likewise, in places where sexual orientation has been added to the protected classes of people against whom it is illegal to discriminate...it has been ruled time and again, that those provisions likewise do not apply to me, because I'm not homosexual. After all, since I'm neither a man, nor a woman...to them - how could I possibly be gay? So that doesn't protect me, either.

In fact, one time, I was even told in a workplace, I had no basis for a sexual harassment complaint. The reason? Because a man can commit sexual harassment against either a man or a woman...and a woman can commit sexual harassment against a man or a woman...but, in my case, I'm neither a man nor a woman....therefore, it is perfectly okay for either a man or a woman to sexually harass me, and I, again, have no recourse.

Seems they always want to give me the short end of the stick. In a workplace, they want to consider me a woman, so they can pay me less...until I have a sexual harassment complaint....then I'm suddenly neither male nor female....then again, if I want to marry a man...suddenly, they want to consider me a man, and tell me I can't marry a man, because it would be a same-sex marriage (never mind the fact that I am fully functioning as any post-menopausal woman would be....or as any woman who had undergone a total hysterectomy would be.)

Seems they always want to consider me to belong to whatever group is the least advantageous for me, given the situation. And there is no uniformity in my identification, or in the laws pertaining to same. Example, in New Jersey, a transsexual woman was found to be a woman, and her ex-husband forced to pay her alimony, in spite of the fact that he used her transsexuality as a grounds for divorce. Whereas, in Texas, a transsexual woman, and wife of a man killed by medical malpractice...was ruled to be a man, thus in an illegal same-sex marriage that the state then annulled...and then it was ruled that, since she was never married to the man in question...she had no grounds to sue the doctor. Never mind the fact that the man in question had known before the marriage, his wife transsexual status. Never mind the fact that they had been married for seven years, and had even filed joint tax returns! And here's the beauty part - when they later found some errors in the very same tax returns (under-reporting of husband's income) they came after the transsexual to pay the difference! And she had to pay it - even though she, supposedly now, legally...had never been married to the man. she had no standing to sue the doctor who caused her husband's death...yet she was responsible for errors on her husband's tax return! How fucking fair is that!??!

The only thing that ever does protect people like me are laws specifically outlawing discrimination based on GENDER IDENTITY...as such laws are few and far between.

so, not to minimize your friend's experience, but at least SHE has legal recourse! Imagine being me...suffering the degradation, the humiliation, and the loss of dignity that goes with being a victim of discrimination....AND having no legal recourse, either!

Your firend should sue the shit out of the restaurant. discrimination sucks. And until we take a stand against it, it will keep happening!

And, in closing, I'd just like to point out that...many of the people who practice discrimination, are themselves protected from discrimination, on the basis of RELIGION!! I love it...the biggest perpetrators of discrimination are themselves protected from discrimination! And they claim it is not valid for us to be protected, because our lifestyle is a "choice." And religion isn't?? People change religions all the time, yet that is a choice worthy of being protected from discrimination, and my so-called "choice" is not? You gotta love it!

It just pisses me off so badly! My point to all of this?? YOU have legal recourse. Use it. Help me fight so that, when I suffer...I, too, one day, will have legal recourse. Discrimination against anyone, for any reason...is just plain wrong and should be stopped.

Oh, and I just love the people who say I oughta "stick to my own kind." What they mean by that, of course, is that people like me ought to start our own businesses. With what? Most of us are dirt-poor, because we have suffered discrimination all our lives! And what if I DID open a business of my own? I couldn't hire only transsexuals like myself, even if I wanted to. I couldn't refuse to hire a fundamentalist fuckhead, because they would be protected from discrimination...and I'd be forced to hire the fuckhead who would make life hell for me and for all the rest of my putative transsexual employees!

Don't you just LOVE the way the system is set up?!?! It's fucking completely stacked against anyone that society considers "undesireable."



girl, you are so strong. I respect you so much, thanks for letting us know about your struggle. I am thinking undergoing a horomonal replacement treatment and I think its great that you are sharing your experience.


Can i ask you a question, do you consider yourself as *passable*? I am only asking this because i wants to know more about the lives trasngender women have to face and whether if *passability* is an issue for you.


I think its soooo awful that you cant dress fully as a woman even after you had your SRS. I cannot imagine myself dressing even in a gender netural way once i had my SRS. I really really admire your determination to be true to yourself.

I have the most respect for you.

I grew up in a place so white, and with a mother who was so non-racist, that I really didn't understand that racism was still a very real problem until I got into the army. (This was quite a while ago. The only real example of racism on TV back then was Carrol O'Connor's excellent portrayal of Archy Bunker, which I always took exactly as he and the makers of the show intended it... A vivid and colorful (no pun intended) illustration of just how stupid racism is.)

Further, this was in Moab Utah, at the gates to the Arches National Park, and my single mother's second job with the CoC put her in close contact lots of tourists and other visitors... so while there was nobody of any kind of color or cultural diversity in the neighborhood or school, I ended up meeting all these interesting people from all over the country and world. Some were even there long enough for her to go out with them a few times. It was as interesting a childhood as someone could have someplace like that, I imagine.

Then, years later, I'm 18, my mother has passed away, and I join the army and *bam!* Not only are these idiots still here, they're serious about it...! I was stunned... And I still feel some odd mixture of sick and sad and very angry when I encounter it. I've disolved friendships, left jobs, and fired people over it. And that's the only way to handle it... If you tolerate it, it doesn't just linger, it grows. I think it was Bill Maher who said "We shold never be so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance."

And to the person who said "Everyone is a little bit racist" on the presumption that everyone has uttered a racist comment... Well, first, I'd have to chime in with the person who said if they had, their mouth would have been washed out with soap, but it goes further than that. It's not the fear of reprimand that prevented myself or my sister from saying things like that, it's that we were not raised that way... Our beliefs weren't formed that way. It never would have occurred to us.

Besides... It's not saying those things that makes you racist. Those are just symptoms. Lenny Bruce might have been one of the least racist people of his (and my mother's) generation, but he's awfully famous for saying just about every racist and otherwise prejudiced epithet in the book during one routine. It's not saying "******" (or, to pick on myself, "dyke") that makes you prejudiced... It's the pre-judging itself. It's living with the delusion that you are automatically better than another person because they are another color, or another gender or sexuality or what have you.

That's the part that has to be educated out of our species.


I'm a transsexual... (~snip)

One quick pet peeve that always makes me grind my teeth (and more) on that particular issue... I hate the way the lesbian community sometimes (ok, often... but getting better) reacts toward people with gender differences.

When we discover that some dyke we know (or don't know) is undergoing female to male gender reassignment, it's this great tragedy... We're losing a good lesbian. But even then, the man in question is more accepted in the lesbian community than is a woman who has undergone the male to female procedure. That's just stupid.

I've known plenty of trans women. I've dated trans women. They're girls. Just talk to them a while, and listen to what they have to say and how they say it... Hear how and what they feel. Close your eyes if you need to, and just talk to them a while... You can tell. They're girls.


Sadly, I think it will still be a long time before people stop finding stupid, prejudicial reasons to hate other people. Worse, it might not be until we first encounter people from other planets... Someone even more different than the local variations on ourselves. Unfortunately, that might well be the first time we see a white man and a black man and a homosexual and a tranny all joining hands in unity... Only to hear them agree on how much they hate the aliens.

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.
As a Canuck I am blown away that this type of behaviour still occours! I had heard that racism was bad in some areas but NEVER would I have believed it was anywhere near this bad!

I am right there with Forest A.K.A. Eutrusca.

That would be sweet, at least until you got shot by some dumbass cop with an itchy trigger finger. Then it would suck. But before then, it would be sweet.


"Dumbass"? I would give a medal to a policeman that blew away some pathetically stupid asshole that put on a lumpy vest with wires and ran in screaming allah akbar.

I'm sure that suggestion was purely humorous-no one can be that stupid.

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.
Are you kidding me? You should sue the hell out of the fuckers. Easy money for you, a nice expensive punishment for the scumbag, and it also sends a message that that kind of behavior won't be tolerated in a civilized nation.

On the bright side, they could have kept their ignorant mouths shut and done something awful to your food instead. Its better their hateful stupidity manifested itself the way it did. Still shocking.
At the same time, I dont expect to go into the majority of eateries around say, Camden or Trenton, Newark, etc... We cant pretend for a second I would make it out intact. It does go both ways, sometimes you're caught off guard though.
I've eaten in Soul Food restaurants and even a black Muslim owned luncheonette in Trenton. Never had any problems. I have friends who live near Passaic st., Trenton. That's ghetto. Still haven't had anyone mess with me because of my race when I go visit them.

Dude ... I would have sooo waited for that place to be crowded and then ran in with a lumpy vest with wires in it and screamed "ALLAH AKHBAR!!!!" just to watch the white people flee and wet themselves.
Dude, you would so get a free all expense paid Cuban vacation to the wonderfull Guantanamo Bay resort.

I've eaten in Soul Food restaurants and even a black Muslim owned luncheonette in Trenton. Never had any problems. I have friends who live near Passaic st., Trenton. That's ghetto. Still haven't had anyone mess with me because of my race when I go visit them.

I'll say I'm glad to hear that. I've been in those neighborhoods in the afternoon and overnight and had some hostilities. Keep in mind, I dont look for trouble- I watch it, but dont look for it.

Dude, you would so get a free all expense paid Cuban vacation to the wonderfull Guantanamo Bay resort.

hopefully...

I thought that the traditional line was "honey, I'm more woman than you'll ever be and more man than you'll ever get."

Now that's a good line, too. Didn't think of it at the time.

Now that's a good line, too. Didn't think of it at the time.
Yeah sometimes hard to come up with the perfect comeback on the spot … specially when angry.

girl, you are so strong. I respect you so much, thanks for letting us know about your struggle. I am thinking undergoing a horomonal replacement treatment and I think its great that you are sharing your experience.


Can i ask you a question, do you consider yourself as *passable*? I am only asking this because i wants to know more about the lives trasngender women have to face and whether if *passability* is an issue for you.


I think its soooo awful that you cant dress fully as a woman even after you had your SRS. I cannot imagine myself dressing even in a gender netural way once i had my SRS. I really really admire your determination to be true to yourself.

I have the most respect for you.


Passable, yes. Perfect, no. Readable...yes. None of us male-to-females will ever be perfect, because of the damage caused by that evil testosterone. some of us have a harder time than others. Fortunately, there are available surgical procedures that can correct most of these problems...always assuming one has the money (cash on the barrel head) for the procedures, since insurance hardly ever covers them, and doctors aren't willing to accept any form of payment plan.

Passability is an issue for ALL of us. For one thing...the way the world percieves us...and the way the world reacts to us...partly colors our own view of the world. And that goes for everyone, not just TG people like you and me. But, we all (TG's) are our own harshest critics...we see imperfections in ourselves that others often do not see...even though we think they do. After all, WE see them! So we assume everyone else does.

I long ago stopped worrying about "passability." I am what I am, and I am who I am, and my attitude is simply that, if anyone has a problem with who or what I am, then it is THEM who have the problem, and I'm DAMNED if I'm going to let them turn THEIR hang-ups into MY problems. I refuse to be ashamed, embarrassed, or apologetic to anyone about what I have done with my own body. I don't make an issue of it, generally...but at the same time, I am not going to lie about what I am, because I see no reason to be anything other than proud of myself. I refuse to give even the impression that I am in any way embarrased or ashamed of what I am. I hold my head up high.

And, actually, I dress the way most women dress most of the time. You don't see most women at Wal-Mart, or in the malls, wearing skirts and heels, do you? No, you see them wearing jeans, sweatpants, pants, sweaters, tops, tennis shoes. I find the more you dress like that, the better you pass. The more you try to do to hose-and-heels routine, and all the makeup...the more you stand out, and the more you look like a drag queen.

Most genetic women dress in a more gender neutral fashion for a few reasons...cost, practicality, comfort...and convenience. And to me it doesn't matter much, anyway, because it isn't about the clothes, for me. It's about my body. And I can wear a pair of men's jeans, and guess what? when I am wearing them, they ARE women's jeans. I'm just using that as an example, because, in actuality, I am not able to fit men's jeans anymore...the hormones have caused fat redistribution in my body (as they will in yours) and now I got too much "junk in the trunk" to fit men's jeans.

The important thing is to always be true to yourself, because, if you can't be true to yourself...how can you possibly be true to anyone else?

Yeah sometimes hard to come up with the perfect comeback on the spot … specially when angry.

True. But my all-time favorite comeback, ever was portrayed in "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" when Bernadette told the one bitch in the bar: Now, listen here, you mollet...why don't you just light your tampon, and blow your box apart? Because it's the only bang you're ever gonna get, sweetheart!

Goddamn, I swear I never laughed so hard in my life!!

Oh, and I just love the people who say I oughta "stick to my own kind." What they mean by that, of course, is that people like me ought to start our own businesses. With what? Most of us are dirt-poor, because we have suffered discrimination all our lives! And what if I DID open a business of my own? I couldn't hire only transsexuals like myself, even if I wanted to. I couldn't refuse to hire a fundamentalist fuckhead, because they would be protected from discrimination...and I'd be forced to hire the fuckhead who would make life hell for me and for all the rest of my putative transsexual employees!


[/hijack]

Dirt poor? Gender reassignment isn't cheap.

And now that we're done reading your self-interested screed, can we go back to the actual thread and the person who wrote it?

I think you're wrong about that...but...even if you are right, and blacks ARE more racist than whites, can you fucking blame them? After the way they have been shit on for centuries, can you BLAME them? As a victim of constant discrimination...and as a person who often has no recourse to do anything about the discrimination directed at me...I can fully understand their rage, and their anger.

You, sir, obviously never experienced REAL discrimination! So someone called you a "cracker?" Well, cry me a fucking river!! When you get denied a place to live...or a job...or medical treatment...just because you are a representative of some hated minority group...then talk to me. Until then, cry me a river about being called a "honky." I have, at different times in my life, been denied jobs, housing, and yes, even medical treatment...because of what I am. Can you say that? Until you can, you get no sympathy from me! So your poor little feelings got hurt because someone called you a "whitey??"

Awwwwwww!!

Let me break out my violin, and I'll play "My Heart Pumps Puprle Piss For You" on it!

Okay, I was being polite earlier, but that's over now. After reading this piece, I've come to the conclusion that your words are sanctimonious tripe regardless of WHAT you claim to be.

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.
Oh man, that us just so ignorant. Fuck, people like that deserve nothing less than to be drawn and quartered!

I understand where you're coming from and I'm what you might call "white" even though half my family is really white.

I've been the victim of discrimination a couple of times and it fucking sucks. The first time was when a prof (yes, a professor!) took a jab at my family's Catholic heritage on St. Patrick's Day because I happened to be wearing green and she was wearing orange. She stuck it to me over that. It sucked, it really did. Now I know why my dad hated Irish Protestants/British so much. What assbags! And I didn't even say anything to this freakin' prof!

The second incident...let's just say, I didn't even know it was racism because, well, I've been raised to think in such a way that my parents didn't inform me of how blacks can act racist towards whites and it caught me off guard on one of my TA shifts in the learning commons at my school, when I approached a black student and I asked her if her and her friends could eithe rbe quieter, because this was a place of study or if they would go to the cafeteria. She then decided to ride my ass about it and was extremely rude to me. It was reported, but a Chinese student sitting nearby reported it and when I was called in (and I'm sweating buckets, because this is my job we're talking about and when racism was mention, boy did I start to panic), my boss asked me about it and asked me about the nature of the comments this black chick had flung at me. I was quite surprised...and I didn't know how to respond because I had never been at the ass-end of racism before.

racist>:eek: :sniper:<me


Although, as much as I hate racists, they deserve free speech as much as anyone else. The Constitution does protect the right of someone to be an unabashed asshole.

Interestingly, I've seen many a time in Germany where a restaurant owner or club owner can refuse service based on skin color or perceived nationality. So don't go thinking this is solely an American problem.

I've personally experienced "racism" just about everywhere, but aside from the occasional refusal of service, it's mostly namecalling, which I could care less about.

Slope, gook, you name it - I've been called it.

Interestingly, the only time I've encountered reverse racism was when a black administrator at the Small Business Administration told me that no matter what the regulations say, Asians aren't a minority and can't receive 8-A status.

Did that three times - each time, he ripped up the application.

Ended up having to go around him. He was convinced that only black males were minorities under the law.

Did that three times - each time, he ripped up the application.

Ended up having to go around him. He was convinced that only black males were minorities under the law.

What a prick. :mad:

Passable, yes. Perfect, no. Readable...yes. None of us male-to-females will ever be perfect, because of the damage caused by that evil testosterone.


How can testosterone -- the hormone itself -- be evil? Seems you've got a bit more to learn about discrimination before you lecture us.

I'm happy for you that you've adjusted so well, but this thread ain't about you.

I've encountered racism so harsh I decided to post it here. The other night I was up until 4 AM helping my friend move stuff out of her apartment because she was trying to cut costs with moving companies but anyways, we were driving around trying to find a place to eat and we went to this diner and before I could even sit down the person behind the counter (and I'm assuming it was the manager) said to me "You need to leave right now, we don't want little niggers like you around here causing trouble but your friend can stay".

Of course we left and ended up being hungry, but this is an example of the kind of extreme things I encounter from time to time. Oh well, at least they won't be getting my money, bastards.

My sig says it all: People are stupid. So I don't find it terribly surprising when stupid people do stupid things. Annoying, yes, but unsurprising.

It's crap like this that kept the South down for so long after the Civil War. An amazingly large portion of white society spent a great deal of time and energy trying to hold blacks down - time and energy that could have been much more productively used in improving their own lot instead. But no, they didn't care how poor and miserable they were as long as they could claim to be better than someone else. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

It's no accident that the economic revival of the South followed closely after the Civil Rights Act. There are still too many unreformed idiots out there, but racism is far, far less severe than it used to be. And most businesses have figured out that money isn't black or white - it's all green.

:rolleyes:

[/hijack]

Dirt poor? Gender reassignment isn't cheap.

And now that we're done reading your self-interested screed, can we go back to the actual thread and the person who wrote it?

It is if you go to Thailand, like I did. And if you got the money for it by winning a discrimination lawsuit against a former employer like I did.

How can testosterone -- the hormone itself -- be evil? Seems you've got a bit more to learn about discrimination before you lecture us.

I'm happy for you that you've adjusted so well, but this thread ain't about you.

Never said it was. It's about discrimination in all forms. Mine just happens to be a different form. I am merely comparing the fact that she has legal recourse with the fact that usually, I don't.

And I'm becoming rapidly conviced that you are here just to tear me apart, that you have a personal agenda here. So I'm going to do you, me, and this thread a favor, and stick you on Ignore.

This sure gives me pause in my long-standing desire to move to FL. I hate the winter weather up here with a huge passion, but if this behavior is typical of FL then I need to go ahead and buy an extra coat.

Originally Posted by Smunkeeville
being denied a job is different than being denied service. haven't you ever been in a restraunt that has the big sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

There is no real "right to refuse service to anyone." Signs saying that they can do so, are just BS wishing on the part of restaurants that post them.

Remember the Denny's discrimination suit? In 1993/1994 they got their asses handed to them for refusing service to blacks, and other incidents of racial discrimination.

Consent decree settling a $28 million Denny's class-action discrimination lawsuit (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/documents/dennysettle2.htm) (US Dept. of Justice site) (Points #10, 11, 12 [and possibly others] of the Plaintiff's Contentions tell of outright refusals of service. Other points include demanding prepayment or minimum charges from different black plaintiffs.)

Flagstar (Denny's owner) ended up embroiled in a few similar suits. It ended up costing $54 million, according to this U of Wisconsin site (http://instruction.bus.wisc.edu/obweb/suplmnts/dennysgbu.htm)

Fergi America']This sure gives me pause in my long-standing desire to move to FL. I hate the winter weather up here with a huge passion, but if this behavior is typical of FL then I need to go ahead and buy an extra coat.

There is no real "right to refuse service to anyone." Signs saying that they can do so, are just BS wishing on the part of restaurants that post them.

Remember the Denny's discrimination suit? In 1993/1994 they got their asses handed to them for refusing service to blacks, and other incidents of racial discrimination.

Consent decree settling a $28 million Denny's class-action discrimination lawsuit (http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/documents/dennysettle2.htm) (US Dept. of Justice site)

Flagstar (Denny's owner) ended up embroiled in a few similar suits. It ended up costing $54 million, according to this U of Wisconsin site (http://instruction.bus.wisc.edu/obweb/suplmnts/dennysgbu.htm)

While you can't refuse service on the basis of race, you can refuse service to people who are causing a problem.

As an example, if I was to walk into a restaurant, and intentionally defecate in the entry foyer, they would be well within their rights to "refuse service".

While you can't refuse service on the basis of race, you can refuse service to people who are causing a problem.

As an example, if I was to walk into a restaurant, and intentionally defecate in the entry foyer, they would be well within their rights to "refuse service".

What if they found part of a finger in your excrement? Then they could sue you.

One quick pet peeve that always makes me grind my teeth (and more) on that particular issue... I hate the way the lesbian community sometimes (ok, often... but getting better) reacts toward people with gender differences.

When we discover that some dyke we know (or don't know) is undergoing female to male gender reassignment, it's this great tragedy... We're losing a good lesbian. But even then, the man in question is more accepted in the lesbian community than is a woman who has undergone the male to female procedure. That's just stupid.

I've known plenty of trans women. I've dated trans women. They're girls. Just talk to them a while, and listen to what they have to say and how they say it... Hear how and what they feel. Close your eyes if you need to, and just talk to them a while... You can tell. They're girls.


Sadly, I think it will still be a long time before people stop finding stupid, prejudicial reasons to hate other people. Worse, it might not be until we first encounter people from other planets... Someone even more different than the local variations on ourselves. Unfortunately, that might well be the first time we see a white man and a black man and a homosexual and a tranny all joining hands in unity... Only to hear them agree on how much they hate the aliens.


Aww, you are so such a sweetie. I wish more people are as open minded as you are about trans women. Thank you for being so open minded, i think thats absolutely wonderful.

Passable, yes. Perfect, no. Readable...yes. None of us male-to-females will ever be perfect, because of the damage caused by that evil testosterone. some of us have a harder time than others. Fortunately, there are available surgical procedures that can correct most of these problems...always assuming one has the money (cash on the barrel head) for the procedures, since insurance hardly ever covers them, and doctors aren't willing to accept any form of payment plan.

Passability is an issue for ALL of us. For one thing...the way the world percieves us...and the way the world reacts to us...partly colors our own view of the world. And that goes for everyone, not just TG people like you and me. But, we all (TG's) are our own harshest critics...we see imperfections in ourselves that others often do not see...even though we think they do. After all, WE see them! So we assume everyone else does.

I long ago stopped worrying about "passability." I am what I am, and I am who I am, and my attitude is simply that, if anyone has a problem with who or what I am, then it is THEM who have the problem, and I'm DAMNED if I'm going to let them turn THEIR hang-ups into MY problems. I refuse to be ashamed, embarrassed, or apologetic to anyone about what I have done with my own body. I don't make an issue of it, generally...but at the same time, I am not going to lie about what I am, because I see no reason to be anything other than proud of myself. I refuse to give even the impression that I am in any way embarrased or ashamed of what I am. I hold my head up high.

And, actually, I dress the way most women dress most of the time. You don't see most women at Wal-Mart, or in the malls, wearing skirts and heels, do you? No, you see them wearing jeans, sweatpants, pants, sweaters, tops, tennis shoes. I find the more you dress like that, the better you pass. The more you try to do to hose-and-heels routine, and all the makeup...the more you stand out, and the more you look like a drag queen.

Most genetic women dress in a more gender neutral fashion for a few reasons...cost, practicality, comfort...and convenience. And to me it doesn't matter much, anyway, because it isn't about the clothes, for me. It's about my body. And I can wear a pair of men's jeans, and guess what? when I am wearing them, they ARE women's jeans. I'm just using that as an example, because, in actuality, I am not able to fit men's jeans anymore...the hormones have caused fat redistribution in my body (as they will in yours) and now I got too much "junk in the trunk" to fit men's jeans.

The important thing is to always be true to yourself, because, if you can't be true to yourself...how can you possibly be true to anyone else?

I've seen some male to female transsexuals who are extremely passable. They are just hot girls, what can i say. I know that most women wear jeans but I like wearing cute cotton skirts, its nothing extreme and its definitely not something a drag queen would wear. I am 5'7 and a half i weight about 130 lbs. I am Asian so i naturally have little hair to begin with. I am pretty happy about my body but what i don’t like my shoulders i think they are too wide. Passability is a big issue for me, I can’t live as a girl and looking so obviously like a guy at the same time, it would be too terrible and intolerable. I know its not about the clothes, but I am the type of person who is extremely conscious about how people perceive me, especially the men. I am 22, so i have already went through puberty, so I am not RUSHING immediately to do anything, I am taking my own time to figure out what my next step would be. I wouldnt wear hose haha! But you are an inspiration to me.

And to those who think she should not talk about transgender issue on this thread. I would say don’t read it, we are definitely not going to take shit from any of you.

Too much testosterone is obviously not desirable for women, it’s a simple concept. Its not discrimination. Do you want to have a vagina? Are you discriminating against vagina because you don’t want a vagina ON YOUR BODY?

Racism is about prejudice and discrimination. We are sticking with the original topic. Its very funny that you guys are being so discriminative in a thread that is supposedly about the evil of discrimination. But I guess some discrimination is okay, like discrimination against trasngenders.

Pathetic!

But thank gods there ARE nice people on this thread.

Thats pretty extreme. I have to say I havent heard any type of behavior like that around here in the Northeast. In this century.
Racism up here is dying out with the old folks ;)