NationStates Jolt Archive

What values do you hold dearest?
It's just to know what keeps people busy, personally I have to go with freedom (Also, when thinking about politics, think about these values)

Personal survival. You can't have any other ideals if you're dead.

(what i regard as) fairness

edit: which i suppose includes equality, and - at a strech - compassion. i'll vote equality for the hell of it

I don't have any values, really. I can't seem to find a base for them, ever since I realized that there isn't really a logical basis for any of them. On the other hand, I'm told Nietzsche found a way around that, but his solution wasn't all that great, too élitist.

To be honest, I can't decide.

Lazyness?

Personal survival. You can't have any other ideals if you're dead.

I'd rather die staying true to my beliefs than submit if my life were threatened because of them.

I'd rather die staying true to my beliefs than submit if my life were threatened because of them.

Oh, I don't mind defending myself. There are some beliefs that I'd be willing to trade, and not others. Besides, I always carry a gun - so if someone wants to threaten my life, they're actually going to have to incapacitate me in some way first.

Oh, I don't mind defending myself. There are some beliefs that I'd be willing to trade, and not others. Besides, I always carry a gun - so if someone wants to threaten my life, they're actually going to have to incapacitate me in some way first.

I guess it depends on what you're forced to defend yourself from, then.

Oh, I don't mind defending myself. There are some beliefs that I'd be willing to trade, and not others. Besides, I always carry a gun - so if someone wants to threaten my life, they're actually going to have to incapacitate me in some way first.
are there really that many tangiable threats to your life, or are you just a bit jumpy, or scared?

honesty, fidelity and compassion.

are there really that many tangiable threats to your life, or are you just a bit jumpy, or scared?

Speaking as someone who had had a bullet go through his office window in downtown DC in broad daylight - been robbed successfully once (pre-gun), three attempted robberies (the gun was very effective), and I work with women who are victims of domestic violence, and their husbands are very verbal in their threats, why yes, there are tangible threats.

Of course, if you're walking around without a gun, everything is fine until a tangible threat shows up. Then you're not going to be allowed to go to the gun store and pick one up. Nor will they let you make a 911 call on your cell phone.

I am an individualist and an anarchist, hence, freedom.

Honesty and compassion are nice ideals, but let's face it, no-one is going to have any. No humans anyway, and unfortunately, I'm stuck living with humans, at least until I'm 18 anyway.

Safety only exists when you have freedom.

Equality differs. Everyone in certain countries, for example, is equally oppressed. It's not necessarily an ideal.

Self-preservation is a good value to practice, but not to preach.

I am an individualist and an anarchist, hence, freedom.

Argh, another one! (I assume you mean anarcho-capitalist)

Libertarians stole the term "libertarian" from we of the left. I'm not going to let you take anarchism from us! :mad:


:p

Speaking as someone who had had a bullet go through his office window in downtown DC in broad daylight - been robbed successfully once (pre-gun), three attempted robberies (the gun was very effective), and I work with women who are victims of domestic violence, and their husbands are very verbal in their threats, why yes, there are tangible threats.
well fair enough i suppose. i've only ever had one attempted robbery in my life, and over here most crooks don't have guns either (though their number is rising :S )

over here it may not be necessary
over there maybe it is.
i'm not gonna preach about it

well fair enough i suppose. i've only ever had one attempted robbery in my life, and over here most crooks don't have guns either (though their number is rising :S )

over here it may not be necessary
over there maybe it is.
i'm not gonna preach about it

None of the people who robbed or attempted to rob me had guns.

I am an individualist and an anarchist, hence, freedom.

Honesty and compassion are nice ideals, but let's face it, no-one is going to have any. No humans anyway, and unfortunately, I'm stuck living with humans, at least until I'm 18 anyway.

Safety only exists when you have freedom.

Equality differs. Everyone in certain countries, for example, is equally oppressed. It's not necessarily an ideal.

Self-preservation is a good value to practice, but not to preach.
'no-one has any compassion or honesty, so therefore i won't either.'
hmm... kind of a self-defeating attitude if you ask me (the same as why the lib dems never get any votes here in the UK. people always say "i'd like to vote for them but its a wasted vote cos nobody does"... if all the people who said that actually voted the party would be in with a half-decent chance :mad: :rolleyes: its the same thing here )

Argh, another one! (I assume you mean anarcho-capitalist)

Libertarians stole the term "libertarian" from we of the left. I'm not going to let you take anarchism from us! :mad:


:p
I am strongly not anarcho-capitalist. I'm more of an anarcho-socialist (not communist, too extreme). I consider "libertarian" in the sense it is usually used -- concentrating on freedom. Social, political, economic to a lesser degree. Mostly I believe in the absence of government, a gap which ought to be filled by the populace as a whole.

I am strongly not anarcho-capitalist. I'm more of an anarcho-socialist (not communist, too extreme). I consider "libertarian" in the sense it is usually used -- concentrating on freedom. Social, political, economic to a lesser degree. Mostly I believe in the absence of government, a gap which ought to be filled by the populace as a whole.

Oh, so you're a comrade then. :p Sorry, for some reason I figured you as a capitalist. Come to think of it, i'm not sure where I got that idea. EDIT- Yeah I do. it would have been the "honesty and compassion" thing.

How do you figure the difference between 'anarcho-socialist' and 'anarcho-communist', then?

'no-one has any compassion or honesty, so therefore i won't either.'
hmm... kind of a self-defeating attitude if you ask me (the same as why the lib dems never get any votes here in the UK. people always say "i'd like to vote for them but its a wasted vote cos nobody does"... if all the people who said that actually voted the party would be in with a half-decent chance :mad: :rolleyes: its the same thing here )
I didn't say I won't have it either. Just no one else does, so it's pointless to hold them as your top values.

I didn't say I won't have it either. Just no one else does, so it's pointless to hold them as your top values.

I think many people do have compassion and honesty. I think the ones who don't are a product of the current system- lacking scruples is an easy way to live a "successful" life.

Oh, so you're a comrade then. :p Sorry, for some reason I figured you as a capitalist. Come to think of it, i'm not sure where I got that idea.

How do you figure the difference between 'anarcho-socialist' and 'anarcho-communist', then?
I still believe in private property and low taxes, and not in forcibly adding people's property to the public pool. (Darn alliteration:p)

I think many people do have compassion and honesty. I think the ones who don't are a product of the current system- lacking scruples is an easy way to live a "successful" life.
If so, then you certainly need to introduce me to those people. I've never met any.

I still believe in private property and low taxes, and not in forcibly adding people's property to the public pool. (Darn alliteration:p)
But taxes are incompatible with anarchy (as they require someone to be above you in life) and low taxes are incompatible with socialism (as the whole social equality and sticking it to the man routine requires a steady flow of cash money).

Whatever, anarcho-<random socialogical ideology here> are always a bit silly. For me, freedom is paramount. So fuck safety and screw equality.
I don't mind an up hill climb so long as there is the slim chance that I will get on top in the end, and then be able to rest with my monocle and make commoner jokes.

I still believe in private property and low taxes, and not in forcibly adding people's property to the public pool. (Darn alliteration:p)

Hmm. How do you propose keeping the "socialist" aspect of it without a government to back it up, then?

But taxes are incompatible with anarchy (as they require someone to be above you in life) and low taxes are incompatible with socialism (as the whole social equality and sticking it to the man routine requires a steady flow of cash money).

You could always eliminate money.

self control.

If so, then you certainly need to introduce me to those people. I've never met any.

Well, I for one consider compassion and honesty together the most important virtues...

I'm by no means the only one.

Well, I for one consider compassion and honesty together the most important virtues...

I'm by no means the only one.
Many people consider them the most important virtues, but few actually practice them.

Many people consider them the most important virtues, but few actually practice them.

Point taken. I try and keep true to myself, though. :)

But taxes are incompatible with anarchy (as they require someone to be above you in life) and low taxes are incompatible with socialism (as the whole social equality and sticking it to the man routine requires a steady flow of cash money).


not with anarcho-communitarianism and the wonderous teachings of the UDCP :P


edit:
Point taken.
ditto, fair enough. i was just reading more into your post, czardas, than there was (if that makes any sense)

Point taken. I try and keep true to myself, though. :)
Good for you...

not with anarcho-communitarianism and the wonderous teachings of the UDCP :P
I refuse to know what UDCP stands for even though I vaguely remember looking it up somewhere.

What about Anarcho-Anarchy:
I hear that it is this really wild system which is like Anarcho-capatalism, Anarcho-Communism, or Anarcho-Fascism, except that they don't have any hierarchy or laws binding human behaviour, wild right?
Well it gets crazier then that (and that is as crazy as a Pope made of Chinchillas) because they also don't have a government to restrict people from pursuing whatever end those people want to pursue, or any concerns for taxes, rights, or equalities. It is totally original, isn't it?

What about Anarcho-Anarchy:
I hear that it is this really wild system which is like Anarcho-capatalism, Anarcho-Communism, or Anarcho-Fascism, except that they don't have any hierarchy or laws binding human behaviour, wild right?
Well it gets crazier then that (and that is as crazy as a Pope made of Chinchillas) because they also don't have a government to restrict people from pursuing whatever end those people want to pursue, or any concerns for taxes, rights, or equalities. It is totally original, isn't it?

How does that differ in practice from anarcho-capitalism? (except for the heirarchy thing...)

Other: Will.

I have no values :(

1) freedom: isn't as important as survival (I think this is less of a common attitude in America since its the basis of your country.....well sort of)

2) survival: isn't important compared to the greater good

3) compassion: isn’t nearly as important as any of the other values

3) Equality: isn’t as important as survival

4) safety: who wants to live in a nanny state? How many of you have ever done something dangerous and felt good about it afterwards

How does that differ in practice from anarcho-capitalism? (except for the heirarchy thing...)
The hierarchy thing mainly. Anarcho-capitalists are the best of a very silly lot. Not that there ideas are terrible, but they aren't anarchic ideas because you can't combine anarchy with another idealogy (especially an idealogy that proposes equality of any sort) because to enforce that idealogy someone has to be in place.
Anarchy can't have a rule of law, but Anarcho-capitalists want a rule of law to prevent thuggery.
Anarchy doesn't have anyone as the boss, but capitalism will create a boss. The fact is, some people are good at organizing, some people are good at building, and others are good at selling what was built. These people can't all be equals, because then the seller doesn't have the freedom to find the best price (because he has to keep the builders perfectly happy) and the organizer can't organize anything because he can't tell the builders what to do.

The hierarchy thing mainly. Anarcho-capitalists are the best of a very silly lot. Not that there ideas are terrible, but they aren't anarchic ideas because you can't combine anarchy with another idealogy (especially an idealogy that proposes equality of any sort) because to enforce that idealogy someone has to be in place.
Anarchy can't have a rule of law, but Anarcho-capitalists want a rule of law to prevent thuggery.
Anarchy doesn't have anyone as the boss, but capitalism will create a boss. The fact is, some people are good at organizing, some people are good at building, and others are good at selling what was built. These people can't all be equals, because then the seller doesn't have the freedom to find the best price (because he has to keep the builders perfectly happy) and the organizer can't organize anything because he can't tell the builders what to do.

I agree with that (also warlords etc will form to replace any lack of power in the goverment)

Personal survival. You can't have any other ideals if you're dead.
That would come under Safety, right?

self control.
Oh noes! I can't! I'm insane!!!1!

I agree with that (also warlords etc will form to replace any lack of power in the goverment)
That, though, is just one of those problems that occurs in Anarcho-Anarchy too, so it hardly merits discussing.
Anyway, they wouldn't be called warlords, they'd jsut be called Revolutionaries and Super-Revolutionaries who know that the best way to defy government is to pay them money and kill the other Revolutinaries.

Oh noes! I can't! I'm insane!!!1!
:rolleyes: What else is new?

Oh noes! I can't! I'm insane!!!1!
insane is a legal term, and it doesn't have anything to do with self control....
it has to do with whether or not you understand the consequences of your actions....

oh well who cares right? I mean we can all come up with tons of reasons why self-control is overrated. (for one thing it isn't always very much fun ;) )

Equality closely followed by freedom.

Compassion. All the other values you list derive from that single ideal.

Ave,

equality above all! without it we are mad prejudiced dogs no matter what angle you see from....if u took away equality i'd do this :eek: :sniper:

Equality closely followed by freedom.
what exactly are we talking about when we say equality?

Honesty, hands down, most important. The truth will set you free. Toughest value to live by; most worth the effort.

But I'm not morbid about it. For instance, when a friend asks me if I like his tie, I will usually say yes. ;)

I would say Etiquette