NationStates Jolt Archive

And why does an all powerful and all loving god not protect innocents who are harmed though fault of their own


Example

My girlfriend

Rheumatoid arthritis sense the age of 5, for the first 10 years of her life after that so aggravated that her parents used to have to carry her around everywhere. Had to have double hip replacement by the age of 16

If that’s not enough for this gentile woman she was also molested by her dad from age 1 – 16

I mean the sick fuck even used to molest her in the bathtub when he was supposed to be helping get her out cause she could not stand up after her hip replacement

Add to that a history of painful injury culminating tonight with her mysteriously going into a short coma and sliding in and out of it.

Why are people like this allowed to be harmed … don’t give me that “god does not want automatons” bullshit saving her from things like arthritis would NOT impact ANYONES FREEDOM of choice

By the Christian standard god has the power to save people from this sort of thing

Why does he not?

God did not help her one of 2 reasons; 1. He was trying her to make her a better person than she would be otherwise (the ranting of a true believer in God) or 2. He does not exist and that's the way things go in some people's lives (the ranting of an unbeliever on any God!).

Nothing said can change what happened.

But if there is no God, it is your and mine role to make the world a better place. We must be what God never was. That is the only way the world will change. I'm truly sorry. I hope you find solace somewhere.

Why do bad things happen to good people?
Good people are suckers.


Seriously, it's fine to be good. But it won't help you survive.

I've lived through bronchitis, meningitis, and a number of serious injuries, and I'm not a "good" person. I'm a fairly tough person however. (Tae Kwon Do and Kung Fu help, fyi.)

What really messes with my head is why good things happen to bad people... :confused:

Life sucks. Deal with it.

But if there is no God, it is your and mine role to make the world a better place.
Why?

Why does he not?

Because "he" is not there.

Life sucks. Deal with it.
Thank you for answering my question :rolleyes:

What really messes with my head is why good things happen to bad people... :confused:
Because it increases suspense?

Bad people get good things because they're not bound by morals, honor, or ethics to get them. Just look at me for an example.

And why does an all powerful and all loving god not protect innocents who are harmed though fault of their own


Example

My girlfriend

Rheumatoid arthritis sense the age of 5, for the first 10 years of her life after that so aggravated that her parents used to have to carry her around everywhere. Had to have double hip replacement by the age of 16

If that’s not enough for this gentile woman she was also molested by her dad from age 1 – 16

I mean the sick fuck even used to molest her in the bathtub when he was supposed to be helping get her out cause she could not stand up after her hip replacement

Add to that a history of painful injury culminating tonight with her mysteriously going into a short coma and sliding in and out of it.

Why are people like this allowed to be harmed … don’t give me that “god does not want automatons” bullshit saving her from things like arthritis would NOT impact ANYONES FREEDOM of choice

By the Christian standard god has the power to save people from this sort of thing

Why does he not?
People will give you all sorts of "cosmic rationales" for suffering, but what it boils down to is the capriciousness and downright randomness of the universe.

I'm not all that pleased [/gross understatement ] that I've been diagnosed with prostate cancer, but it's part and parcel of the sort of thing you face into as a mammal. Some suffering does have a slight upside in that it makes us aware of our mortality and more focused on what we consider important. But by and large, suffering serves very little useful purpose.

Because "he" is not there.
I happen to agree I should have specified coming from a religious standpoint

What really messes with my head is why good things happen to bad people... :confused:
( See my last post above )

Because "he" is not there.
Oh? Prove this, please. :)

I don't know about any god, but bad things happen to good people because the world is not a fair place. But it's better that way. If the world were fair, all the terrible things that happen to us would happen because we actually deserved them.

More Marcus wisdom from B5.

Oh? Prove this, please. :)

The onus of proof is not with the sceptic - it is with the supporter. And as well you know, Eutrusca, you and Iraq, proving a negative is not possible.

And why does an all powerful and all loving god not protect innocents who are harmed though fault of their own


Example

My girlfriend

Rheumatoid arthritis sense the age of 5, for the first 10 years of her life after that so aggravated that her parents used to have to carry her around everywhere. Had to have double hip replacement by the age of 16

If that’s not enough for this gentile woman she was also molested by her dad from age 1 – 16

I mean the sick fuck even used to molest her in the bathtub when he was supposed to be helping get her out cause she could not stand up after her hip replacement

Add to that a history of painful injury culminating tonight with her mysteriously going into a short coma and sliding in and out of it.

Why are people like this allowed to be harmed … don’t give me that “god does not want automatons” bullshit saving her from things like arthritis would NOT impact ANYONES FREEDOM of choice

By the Christian standard god has the power to save people from this sort of thing

Why does he not?

because you such yourself at night

Simple, the good people need to get pissed and then do something constructive with that anger.

Oh? Prove this, please. :)
Show us some evidence to the contrary, in that case. Besides some 2000-year-old book of folk tales.

Why?
Sympathy, compassion, love of children, love of your future ( or current ) children, love of the rest of your progeny for all time, love of all that lives.

Show us some evidence to the contrary, in that case. Besides some 2000-year-old book of folk tales.
I didn't make the original assertion, thus it is not my task to prove anything, only to question and refute. :)

because you such yourself at night
Lol I love family guy … thanks for the laugh I needed it

Oh? Prove this, please. :)
You don’t prove a positive you attempt to prove the statement false

He made the claim of no god

Can you falsify that?

The onus of proof is not with the sceptic - it is with the supporter. And as well you know, Eutrusca, you and Iraq, proving a negative is not possible.
But surely there is some proof that God does not, in fact, exist?

And the burden of proof is with the person making the original assertion, whether that assersion is negative or not. :p

Sympathy, compassion, love of children, love of your future ( or current ) children, love of the rest of your progeny for all time, love of all that lives.
I’m so glad that I was able to make those emotions voluntary.

Why?

Because a better life for all can only be had with effort from all.

Don't tell me it doesn't bother you that something like this can happen. It bothers me how inhuman some of us really are. A father do that sort of thing? It's beyond my understanding. I can't even imagine what I would do to a person like that.

I’m so glad that I was able to make those emotions voluntary.
All emotions are "voluntary," except in their extremes.

A father do that sort of thing? It's beyond my understanding. I can't even imagine what I would do to a person like that.
I can.

All emotions are "voluntary," except in their extremes.
Exactly. Feelings are involuntary. Emotions and states of mind are voluntary.

Thus, death is only a state of mind, because you only die if you believe you will.

Because a better life for all can only be had with effort from all.

Don't tell me it doesn't bother you that something like this can happen. It bothers me how inhuman some of us really are. A father do that sort of thing? It's beyond my understanding. I can't even imagine what I would do to a person like that.
Yeah its specially hard to deal with coming from my history of being molested myself , considering he is already out of jail and has been for 2 years (she is 20 if that puts it in perspective)

But surely there is some proof that God does not, in fact, exist?

Proof of the non-existence of something is a non-sequitur.

And the proof is with the person making the original assertion, whether that assersion is neagive or not. :p

And, again, it is not the disbeliever that has to prove anything. The onus is on the one claiming existence.

Because a better life for all can only be had with effort from all.

Don't tell me it doesn't bother you that something like this can happen. It bothers me how inhuman some of us really are. A father do that sort of thing? It's beyond my understanding. I can't even imagine what I would do to a person like that.
It bothers me that it happened not that it can happen. The man is not inhuman. More than likely, he has control issues, and his daughter, in the predicament she was in, was in no position to assert anything at all.

Exactly. Feelings are involuntary. Emotions and states of mind are voluntary.

Thus, death is only a state of mind, because you only die if you believe you will.
LOL! Death is neither "emotion" nor "feeling," but the cessation of consciousness ... permanently.

A father do that sort of thing? It's beyond my understanding. I can't even imagine what I would do to a person like that.
I can, but my usual punishments for crimes all seem entirely ineffectual at the moment. I have to think of something really painful now. As in, crucifixion-style.

It bothers me that it happened not that it can happen. The man is not inhuman. More than likely, he has control issues, and his daughter, in the predicament she was in, was in no position to assert anything at all.
Can you say "Rage is a strong emotion," boys and girls?

The onus is on the one claiming existence.
And where did I "claim" anything?

All emotions are "voluntary," except in their extremes.
For many people, that seems to be completely untrue.

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Why do good things happen to good people?

And where did I "claim" anything?

The point is that I did not claim a positive; hence your demand for proof being illogical.

For many people, that seems to be completely untrue.
The inability to control emotions stems from either a lack of knowledge that they can be controlled and of the means of doing so, or the lack of will to put that knowledge to use.

It bothers me that it happened not that it can happen. The man is not inhuman. More than likely, he has control issues, and his daughter, in the predicament she was in, was in no position to assert anything at all.

Thanks for explaining it... Now tell me how school shootings are caused by a fragile psyche of a troubled teenager. What the hell is the difference!? There are lines you should never cross. It's rape, and rape is unforgivable. You shed your humanity when you do something like that. Noone should ever have to go through anything like that. Its the perversion of everything we hold sacred due to our unique nature as humans, the very essence of our spiritual existence. And not spiritual in the religious sense, but rather in the sense of abstract thought and rationale.

The point is that I did not claim a positive; hence your demand for proof being illogical.
LOL! As always where you're concerned, Fass, I bow to your superior logic. :)

Why do bad things happen to good people?
same reason as why the dinosaurs died out: because you touch yourself at night
(i love family guy)

I can, but my usual punishments for crimes all seem entirely ineffectual at the moment. I have to think of something really painful now. As in, crucifixion-style.
You have a TG.

Thanks for explaining it... Now tell me how school shootings are caused by a fragile psyche of a troubled teenager. What the hell is the difference!? There are lines you should never cross. It's rape, and rape is unforgivable. You shed your humanity when you do something like that. Noone should ever have to go through anything like that. Its the perversion of everything we hold sacred due to our unique nature as humans, the very essence of our spiritual existence. And not spiritual in the religious sense, but rather in the sense of abstract thought and rationale.
I was simply explaining why he did it, the excuse is irrelevant and, yes, he deserves to be punished because he did it. His reasons are pointless for he infringed on the natural rights of another human being.

A long, complex argument based on free will, that I don't feel like elucidating right now.

(and yes, inhuman forces play a role in this argument)

A long, complex argument based on free will, that I don't feel like elucidating right now.

(and yes, inhuman forces play a role in this argument)
Psssst! Your poll is now closed! :p

sorry to tell ya upward, but this is a shining example of why god either does not exist or is a not all good (if not even a jerk) or not all powerful.

If God was all powerful and all Good then he would not let this happen because it is ovbiously not good what has happened. Thus he either did not have the power to stop it, or is a jerk and let your girl friend have a horrid childhood. Or possibly he does not exist at all, and it is just what has happened during the corse of time. Either way what I have said in no way would make anyone feel better about what has happened to your girl friend. My sorrow is extended to you.

You have a TG.
Ah yes, I'd forgotten that method. It would certainly serve as a good vehicle of justice.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that method. It would certainly serve as a good vehicle of justice.
Poetic, yes? :D

1. God is a matter of opinion
2. It's human nature to be messed up
3. To be human means in someway you either mess someone around or be the one being messed around
4. PEOPLE SUCK

I don't see how it's a case for God not existing. It's a case for, if there is a God, he doesn't give a shit or a he's callous asshole.

"He moves in mysterious ways" is really just another way of saying "He doesn't give a shit."

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Karma.

Karma.

But what if you've lived a good life?

Poetic, yes? :D
Very appropriate.

(Note to people who want to know what was in Eut's TG: It's rated somewhere about NC-17.)

Karma.
damn that elephant.

STUPID VANILLA COKE ADS!!!!!

But what if you've lived a good life?
Karma includes your past lives as well. Its why Buddhism really isn’t as enlightened as most think. “The reason you have a bad life now is because you were a bad guy in your past life.” Hinduism uses it alsol.

Very appropriate.

(Note to people who want to know what was in Eut's TG: It's rated somewhere about NC-17.)
ROFLMAO! Hmmm. I would have said it rated at least an R! :D

ROFLMAO! Hmmm. I would have said it rated at least an R! :D
Well, the version with pure sodium hydroxide would receive a higher rating of course.

Karma includes your past lives as well. Its why Buddhism really isn’t as enlightened as most think. “The reason you have a bad life now is because you were a bad guy in your past life.” Hinduism uses it alsol.
Yea the logic does seem really circular.

Yea the logic does seem really circular.

I thought that was the whole point of Karma?

*being the NS-obsessed person he is, thought "Karma" referred to that Game Mod*

Yeah. Continue.

I thought that was the whole point of Karma?

Well yea it is a circular cycle but I mean logic wise.

Well yea it is a circular cycle but I mean logic wise.

Trying to adapt logic to spiritual matters really not likely to produce much, I think.

But what if you've lived a good life?
As Undelia pointed out, your actions in the past (including all your past lives) affects you.

But he/she also says

Its why Buddhism really isn’t as enlightened as most think. “The reason you have a bad life now is because you were a bad guy in your past life.”
But it is not as cut and dried like that.

And what is "a good life" is very subjective on how you were brought up. What you think is a "good life" may not be virtuous. Eating a Chicken burger is not viewed as bad. But you are killing an animal for material pleasure and you do incur karma. It has its effect. It always does. Everything you do affects you. Everything you did will affect you. How it affects depends on what you did.

I am not judging or saying that they deserved it...they probably did..or did not...it is not my place to pass judgement....all I am saying is that there are reasons for that and that it is a result of their own actions in the past and not because of a cruel/malicious God...God does not interfere with karma...even for the truest devotees. When even realised yogis have to endure the results of their karma, what to speak of unrealised people who live a "good life" (which is most probably a life devoted to material pleasures)...

For those interested, I have elaborated on Karma, Sin and virtue in this thread..
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=443472

Because would you really love god if everything went your way would you be 100% happy i know i would be you could give me a million dollars and whatever and i would and also because eve ate the apple and we today and paying for that sin for know with the knowleage of good and evil we do nothing but evil we want money,sex and many other things christian suffer because god test our worth it easy saying "im a christian" but threw trials we see what we really are i remeber my pastor wants said "anger show who you really are" anybody can be nice when everything is going for them but put a bit of fire on them and they can be the worst people ever and besides it wouldnt be fun if a few bad things didnt happen onice and a while

Why are you blaming god for her problems?