NationStates Jolt Archive

I was discussing how I wanted to make a manga but couldn't and I heard an interesting suggestion. Someone said that if I learn Japanese and send a manga to a manga publishing company with a Japanese penname, in theory, it is possible that they will accept it not knowing I'm actually a gaijin.

If or when they find out, it will be too late and any attempt to back out will be too obvious. I might even be able to bring it to international attention and make the manga monopoly not worth it. Yes, it's complex and dubious, but it would allow me to accomplish my dream.

If I learn Japanese and send a manga to a manga publishing company with a Japanese penname, in theory, it is possible that they will accept it not knowing I'm actually a gaijin.
A Gaijin?
Lol makes me want to spoof an old MSG quote:
"It's, it's, it's a Gaijin!" :D

"It's, it's, it's a Gaijin!" :D

Reminds me of that "Recess " episode with that message of " trading cards are addictive and evil " and they shout that one damn thing that i cannot remember..

Also.. for karma : Is GoZilllllllllllllllAAAAAAAA :: combusts :: :p

:headbang:
There's no such thing as a manga monopoly. *sighs*

Do you KNOW that in Japan you're not even likely to HEAR the word manga? Every single damn store here has that section labled komikusu. Just as you never hear anime, it's animeshun.

There's no such thing as a manga monopoly. *sighs*

Do you KNOW that in Japan you're not even likely to HEAR the word manga? Every single damn store here has that section labled komikusu. Just as you never hear anime, it's animeshun.

Oh really? If there is no manga monopoly, then how do you explain this link:

http://www.the-engine.net/forum/index.php?webtag=ENGINE&msg=176.17

Oh really? If there is no manga monopoly, then how do you explain this link:

http://www.the-engine.net/forum/index.php?webtag=ENGINE&msg=176.17
As pure idiocy. Comics are comics are comics. What publishers call something doesn't matter one bit, it's what the consumers call the damn things. And FYI, in Akihabara, otaku heaven, I find imported comics mixed in with Japanese comics and BOTH are called comics. Besides, your article doesn't even bother to post what manga IS! The styles are so different between artists, along with storylines and such that manga is just a catch phrase for comics.

Ya really want to be a manga-ka, draw up some doujinshi, come to Tokyo during the big con and see if you can sell them.

I have yet to find any Japanese who makes a big deal between Japanese comics and imports, so if your Japanese is good and so is your artwork, you might be able to sell a few.

As pure idiocy. Comics are comics are comics. What publishers call something doesn't matter one bit, it's what the consumers call the damn things. And FYI, in Akihabara, otaku heaven, I find imported comics mixed in with Japanese comics and BOTH are called comics. Besides, your article doesn't even bother to post what manga IS! The styles are so different between artists, along with storylines and such that manga is just a catch phrase for comics.

Ya really want to be a manga-ka, draw up some doujinshi, come to Tokyo during the big con and see if you can sell them.

I have yet to find any Japanese who makes a big deal between Japanese comics and imports, so if your Japanese is good and so is your artwork, you might be able to sell a few.

So you mean he was lying through his teeth in that post? What you say gives me hope, but I would feel better if you could point me to some confirmable sources so I can see for myself, no offense or anything, I just want to be sure.

So you mean he was lying through his teeth in that post? What you say gives me hope, but I would feel better if you could point me to some confirmable sources so I can see for myself, no offense or anything, I just want to be sure.
Lying? No, but I would say that he is making the same silly distinction that the wine makers of Champagne try to make. Their claim is that ONLY champagne from Champagne is champagne. Drinkers of the damn stuff (unless they're real wine snobs) don't care if the wine in question comes from that particular part of France or Napa Valley, California. They go for the taste and manga consumers in Japan are the same way.

As for proof, I have none to offer you as I'm 3 hours and 16,000 yen fare away from Tokyo and I don't plan to go to Akihabara to take pictures and conduct a survey for you. And I'm afraid that in my little town, given that there are TWO English speakers in the whole of it, just doesn't bother to import any American comics.

What I can say through is through personal experience in Tokyo, and the fact that my students wander through my school carrying Batman pencil cases (I gained major sugoi points in their eyes by not only knowing of Batman but having brought a real English Batman graphic novel with me to Japan). Hell, the major bookstore in Shinjuku ward is rather humorous as it mixes the American graphic novels it imports with the translated manga done by Tokyo Pop, Viz, and others, and causes a lot of confusion among the Japanese as it's right next to the bilingual manga section.

It should also be noted that Mega Tokyo, according to Piro, has also started to receive a following in Japan by Japanese. The main reason why there are not that many gaikokujin manga ka is the language issue. Many Japanese cannot read English well (trust me on this) and few companies are taking the time, effort, and cost to translate American offerings.

why would it be odd to have japanese comic books be pretty much a japanese monopoly?

why do you want to make a comic book in japanese when you dont write in japanese at this time?

wouldnt it make more sense to do an american comic book?





**ya ya if youre sensitive substitute graphic novel for comic book.**

why would it be odd to have japanese comic books be pretty much a japanese monopoly?

why do you want to make a comic book in japanese when you dont write in japanese at this time?

wouldnt it make more sense to do an american comic book?





**ya ya if youre sensitive substitute graphic novel for comic book.**

Uh, because the American comic style and storytelling DOES NOT appeal to me whereas the manga form does. If I had the choice, I would much rather write a manga than an American comic.

I don't think it matters whether or not it's in Japanese originally.

I mean, look at the authors of Shutterbox, American, and although I love Japanese manga more, it's pretty good.

You could just show it at a major convention, and when you get noticed and signed or whatever it is, then you can translate it to Japanese.



**Signed, Sunako and Kyohei, rulers of YamatoNadeshiki ShichiHenge

Just draw, man. If you have the chops and can write a good plot, you'll find success somewhere, even if it requires selling your first few bits at the local shop for a buck a pop.

Here's the big catch, though. You have a hell of a mountain to climb, particularily if you're shooting for the manga market. unless you're fantastic, and I mean shit-on-fire good, you'll be ignored in favour of already-established artists. You'd have more luck if you weren't confining yourself to a mainstream style and just made your break for indie comics.

Just draw, man. If you have the chops and can write a good plot, you'll find success somewhere, even if it requires selling your first few bits at the local shop for a buck a pop.

Here's the big catch, though. You have a hell of a mountain to climb, particularily if you're shooting for the manga market. unless you're fantastic, and I mean shit-on-fire good, you'll be ignored in favour of already-established artists. You'd have more luck if you weren't confining yourself to a mainstream style and just made your break for indie comics.

Agreed

Just draw, man. If you have the chops and can write a good plot, you'll find success somewhere, even if it requires selling your first few bits at the local shop for a buck a pop.

Here's the big catch, though. You have a hell of a mountain to climb, particularily if you're shooting for the manga market. unless you're fantastic, and I mean shit-on-fire good, you'll be ignored in favour of already-established artists. You'd have more luck if you weren't confining yourself to a mainstream style and just made your break for indie comics.

I'm not necessarily looking to market it or anything, I just like manga and wanted to make my own.

I'm not necessarily looking to market it or anything, I just like manga and wanted to make my own.

in that case, I'd probably opt to work a webcomic first. Webcomics require a lot less in the way of phsyical resources, and are easily read by people all over the world. On top of that, once you get a steady fanbase (which isn't very hard) you can start merchandising anything at all with some of your more popular jokes/logos, which will start making the website pay for itself. Link to other comics, get reciprocal linking back, network, and if you're any good, thrive.

in that case, I'd probably opt to work a webcomic first. Webcomics require a lot less in the way of phsyical resources, and are easily read by people all over the world. On top of that, once you get a steady fanbase (which isn't very hard) you can start merchandising anything at all with some of your more popular jokes/logos, which will start making the website pay for itself. Link to other comics, get reciprocal linking back, network, and if you're any good, thrive.

How does that tie into manga, though?

How does that tie into manga, though?
Because even Japan is starting to see a lot more webcomics, though not nearly the explosion in America. If you want to do a Japanese-style comic, go for it. Call it web manga and no one from Japan is going to say differently.

I like manga as much as the next guy, but Letila, you act as though there is some kind of conspiracy...

there are a lot of ways to 'japanize' western names. got to:
http://www.takase.com/Names/NameInJapanese.htm

hope this helps :D

The obvious solution, at least to me, is to call your work comics regardless of if it's in manga style, manwha style, Franco-Beligian, American style, whatever. let other people call it manga for you, if they like.

How does that tie into manga, though?


http://www.megatokyo.com/


This is American Manga, started in Webcomic form. Yes you can purchase the manga in stores. Published by Dark Horse Comics to; if you remember they also did Akira.

Yay for manga!~

^^; sorry..
Got carried away.. But anyways, manga is a good thing.. Especially yaoi ^ ^

Yay for manga!~

^^; sorry..
Got carried away.. But anyways, manga is a good thing.. Especially yaoi ^ ^


Umm....yaoi is good.....but not typically a manga thing. Shounen-ai at the very most I USUALLY see, the rest belongs to doujinshi which is not offical manga.

Yay for manga!~

^^; sorry..
Got carried away.. But anyways, manga is a good thing.. Especially yaoi ^ ^

Boo.

Down with Yaoi and its inferior-gene males. Go Mecha!

Well, except Gundam, those things are too damned pretty.

http://www.megatokyo.com/


This is American Manga, started in Webcomic form. Yes you can purchase the manga in stores. Published by Dark Horse Comics to; if you remember they also did Akira.

Beat me to it. Another good one is www.errantstory.com personally I prefer Poe's style (Errantstory) to Piro's (Megatokyo).

Umm.

Manga is the term for Japanese graphical novels in the western world. There is no such thing as "manga-style," as it doesn't matter at all how the comic is drawn, only who has drawn it.

So if you draw big-eyed, small-nosed and sweet faced humans, it's not manga. It's an ordinary graphical novel.

Umm.

Manga is the term for Japanese graphical novels in the western world. There is no such thing as "manga-style," as it doesn't matter at all how the comic is drawn, only who has drawn it.

So if you draw big-eyed, small-nosed and sweet faced humans, it's not manga. It's an ordinary graphical novel.

Damn, so who is correct, Dreamwhere or NERVUN?

Damn, so who is correct, Dreamwhere or NERVUN?

Manga in Japanese means something on the lines of 'irresponsible drawings'. In other words comic books.

In Western terms it means a specific artistic style which was first widely used in Japan.

Generally on a forum I would use the western version because more people understand it that way.

To illustrate better, imagine you, a citizen of Australia or other nation besides the US, loved Jazz music and hoped to be a great Jazz musician one day. Then, you find out that Americans have decided that only Jazz played by Americans is real Jazz.

Are you telling me you would just shrug this off and forget all about your dream in Jazz without even a hint of anger or resentment? Somehow, I find that hard to believe unless you never took your dream that seriously to begin with. See my point?

*snip*

Are you telling me you would just shrug this off and forget all about your dream in Jazz without even a hint of anger or resentment? Somehow, I find that hard to believe unless you never took your dream that seriously to begin with. See my point?

Seriously, I don't see your point.

WHY do you want your comics to be called manga? WHY can't you just draw the way you draw - and call them comics? WHY do they must be called manga?

Now if I wanted to play Jazz, I would play Jazz but just call the music style something different. I seriously don't understand your problem.

There's no such thing as a manga monopoly. *sighs*

Do you KNOW that in Japan you're not even likely to HEAR the word manga? Every single damn store here has that section labled komikusu. Just as you never hear anime, it's animeshun.



I was under the impression that the word "manga" was the Japanese word
for comics -- books or strips.
And the word Anime was the word for cartoons - animated cartoons,
short for animation, like many Japanese words are shortened versions of a longer.

I could be wrong. Not living there, only studying the language leaves one
with textbook terminology and whatever the teachers know.



Then we in the states addapted those
words to mean comics and cartoons from Japan.
They seem to have gotten another redefining again,
as a type of drawing style to clone the typical style of
Japanese artists.

Well, except Gundam, those things are too damned pretty.
Oh you didn't just say that!
*dispatches a squadron of Z Plus A1s to deal with the likes of you*
:p

Seriously, I don't see your point.

WHY do you want your comics to be called manga? WHY can't you just draw the way you draw - and call them comics? WHY do they must be called manga?

Now if I wanted to play Jazz, I would play Jazz but just call the music style something different. I seriously don't understand your problem.

Why? Why should I be forced to accept that? There is no justification for the manga monopoly. No one is hurt if a gaijin dare defy it. There is no good reason for it and it only exists because of Japanese attitudes that have no justification.

There is no good reason for it anymore than there would be a good reason for you to have to accept failure to make Jazz. If your music is indistinguishable from Jazz and it's your dream, you shouldn't have to accept failure. I refuse to let them get their way if I can avoid it.

I still don't see why you want your comics to be called manga. Manga (originally in Japanese "indistinct, fast picture," or graphical novels) means Japanese comics - it's simple as that.

I could invent a word - let's say Finja - and then declare that it means Finnish comics. I would draw popular comics and become very famous, and eventually people would start to copy my drawing style. Would they get angry because they can't call their comics Finja? No, because there's no point to get angry and crusade against the Finnish "monopoly" of Finja.

The same is with manga. Granted, Japanese have a monopoly of manga - because manga means Japanese comics, for God's sake!

I still don't see why you want your comics to be called manga. Manga (originally in Japanese "indistinct, fast picture," or graphical novels) means Japanese comics - it's simple as that.

I could invent a word - let's say Finja - and then declare that it means Finnish comics. I would draw popular comics and become very famous, and eventually people would start to copy my drawing style. Would they get angry because they can't call their comics Finja? No, because there's no point to get angry and crusade against the Finnish "monopoly" of Finja.

The same is with manga. Granted, Japanese have a monopoly of manga - because manga means Japanese comics, for God's sake!

I don't think you understand. I don't like the US comic style. It doesn't appeal to me. I like the manga style instead. Why should I have to change my preferences to satisfy Japan? When you consider all the stuff they borrowed from other cultures, why should they be telling people not to borrow back?

After all, you don't see Europeans saying that only they can make "real novels" because they invented the novel or Americans saying that only they can make "real Jazz" because Jazz was invented in the US. They certainly don't have a problem with such things.

There are Japanese who make jazz and rap, did you know that? How can they shamelessly borrow the artforms of other cultures while demanding that no one borrow their artforms?

I don't think you understand. I don't like the US comic style. It doesn't appeal to me. I like the manga style instead. Why should I have to change my preferences to satisfy Japan? When you consider all the stuff they borrowed from other cultures, why should they be telling people not to borrow back?

After all, you don't see Europeans saying that only they can make "real novels" because they invented the novel or Americans saying that only they can make "real Jazz" because Jazz was invented in the US. They certainly don't have a problem with such things.

There are Japanese who make jazz and rap, did you know that? How can they shamelessly borrow the artforms of other cultures while demanding that no one borrow their artforms?

Dude. It doesn't matter what style something you do something in, everyone has their own personal style. It doesn't change the fact that it's still a graphic novel.

A comic done by an American person is still a graphic novel. Just done by an American person. A manga drawn by a Japanese person is still a graphic novel. Just done by a Japanese person, and using a Japanese word to describe it.

A graphic novel by any other name is still just a story told by pictures. I could draw a story out, call it a putnikket, and it would STILL be the same as any other graphic novel/comic/manga/manhau/WHATEVER, just in my own personal style that may or may not resemble the styles often used by Japanese people who draw graphic novels.

As far as I can tell, the only use in calling graphic novels different things is to give it a point of origin.

Kiwi-kiwi said it quite well.

Letila, it's you who doesn't understand. I'm not saying you can't draw your overly cute, big eyed characters - go ahead! What I'm saying is that you can't call your drawings manga no matter what they look like.


There is NO such thing as "manga style." I won't try to explain this with words, but pictures instead so even you can understand it.

These all are from manga artists:

Takehiko Inoue's Vagabond (http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jackleaf/seko/Vagabond.jpg)

Hajime Ueda (&GAINAX)'s FLCL (http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jackleaf/seko/flcl.jpg)

Natsuki Takaya's Fruits Basket (http://koti.mbnet.fi/~jackleaf/seko/furuba.jpg)

And then there's even more 'out-of-norm' sort of styles, like Akira Toriyama (as with Dragonball).

Also, it's not as though there aren't vast differences in Western Comic styles. Just compare your average superhero comic with something by Jhonen Vasquez.

Styles are unique to people, not cultures, though within cultures there may be similarities. However, given the internet and mixing of styles and such, it makes sense that these similarities in a culture's styles are going to be crossing.

Letila, it's you who doesn't understand. I'm not saying you can't draw your overly cute, big eyed characters - go ahead! What I'm saying is that you can't call your drawings manga no matter what they look like.

Well that's not fair. Why can Yoko Kanno make a jazz soundtrack for Cowboy Bebop but I can't make manga? It's a double standard, plain and simple. I want to express myself in a way I see fit but I can't while the Japanese can borrow artforms from any culture, it seems.

(cough)

DRAW THE BLOODY COMIC AND SHUT UP. THERE ARE NO MEN TRYING TO KILL YOU. THERE ARE NO PEOPLE STALKING YOU AND SAYING "LET'S SCREW HIM OVER!" NO!!! JUST DRAW THE BLOODY MANGA!

Geez... there is no conspiracy man! It's you! You're seeing a speck of glass on the floor and saying "Bloody murder!" Draw it!

Not that I'd read it, nothing personal it's just I hate Japanese art. Now, if you do something new, maybe.

DRAW THE BLOODY COMIC AND SHUT UP. THERE ARE NO MEN TRYING TO KILL YOU. THERE ARE NO PEOPLE STALKING YOU AND SAYING "LET'S SCREW HIM OVER!" NO!!! JUST DRAW THE BLOODY MANGA!

Geez... there is no conspiracy man! It's you! You're seeing a speck of glass on the floor and saying "Bloody murder!" Draw it!

Finally, someone said it.

And another thing, it doesn't matter what it's called. It's like naked people in paintings that just happen to be doing... things. Some call it art, others call it porn. I call it strange, but in the end it's still a naked person doing... things.

Well that's not fair. Why can Yoko Kanno make a jazz soundtrack for Cowboy Bebop but I can't make manga? It's a double standard, plain and simple. I want to express myself in a way I see fit but I can't while the Japanese can borrow artforms from any culture, it seems.

'Manga' is not an artform. It is a word that describes stories told with pictures. The Western terms for this are 'comic' and 'graphic novel'. Because 'manga' is a Japanese word, people will use it to describe illustrated stories that come from Japan, just as people tend to use the terms 'graphic novel' and 'comic' to describe Western comics.

I mean, I suppose that you could call ALL illustrated stories mangas, but that would be like speaking English all the time, except for always calling boy's 'shounen' or something like that. It would be extremly odd, and entirely pointless.

Jazz is also not an artform. Music is an artform, of which jazz happens to be a particular style. However, the term 'jazz' is not specifically linked to a culture, but is music played in a certain fashion. Music tends to be very specific within bounds.

'Manga' is not an artform. It is a word that describes stories told with pictures. The Western terms for this are 'comic' and 'graphic novel'. Because 'manga' is a Japanese word, people will use it to describe illustrated stories that come from Japan, just as people tend to use the terms 'graphic novel' and 'comic' to describe Western comics.

I mean, I suppose that you could call ALL illustrated stories mangas, but that would be like speaking English all the time, except for always calling boy's 'shounen' or something like that. It would be extremly odd, and entirely pointless.

Jazz is also not an artform. Music is an artform, of which jazz happens to be a particular style. However, the term 'jazz' is not specifically linked to a culture, but is music played in a certain fashion. Music tends to be very specific within bounds.

Jazz and manga are both parts of larger artforms. However, while no one expects nonAmericans to lay off jazz, it is required in the case of manga.

And another thing, it doesn't matter what it's called. It's like naked people in paintings that just happen to be doing... things. Some call it art, others call it porn. I call it strange, but in the end it's still a naked person doing... things.

But if you painted a painting, which would you prefer it to be called? Art or porn? I think you would surely prefer it to be called art. The same with me.

I am beyond labels! I'd like it to be called a WTF. Hmmm...

Jazz and manga are both parts of larger artforms. However, while no one expects nonAmericans to lay off jazz, it is required in the case of manga.


Okay, here's the thing. What makes something manga? Seriously, what is it about this supposed style of art 'manga' that would demand it be called that? Because I can tell you, that for any detail that you can come up with there will be exceptions to the rule. The only thing I can see that would undoubtedly determine something as 'manga' is that it was made by a Japanese person. In the same way that there's no specific Western comic style.

Music, on the otherhand, most especially that written for instruments, is structured. If something has certain characteristic, it is considered a certain type of music. Take for example, a waltz. If you compose a piece of music in triple time, with a strong accent on the first beat... chances are it's a waltz. However, music may also be describe by it's time period (Baroque music), but that's because certain styles of instrumental music were preferred and expected during periods of time. There are very specific things that make jazz, jazz.

I am beyond labels! I'd like it to be called a WTF. Hmmm...

People are going to label it no matter what you do and I know you would prefer your work to be called art rather than porn if it's going to be called anything.

Okay, here's the thing. What makes something manga? Seriously, what is it about this supposed style of art 'manga' that would demand it be called that? Because I can tell you, that for any detail that you can come up with there will be exceptions to the rule. The only thing I can see that would undoubtedly determine something as 'manga' is that it was made by a Japanese person. In the same way that there's no specific Western comic style.

Fine, let the Japanese keep their manga :rolleyes: I can't change Japanese culture or attitudes. I'll find another medium, maybe opera or drama or something.

Letila, nobody is stopping you from making it. It's yourself. You really are thinking too much into this.

Fine, let the Japanese keep their manga :rolleyes: I can't change Japanese culture or attitudes. I'll find another medium, maybe opera or drama or something.

Er... or you could just, y'know, DRAW YOUR STORY. Call it what you want, people will call it what they want, it doesn't really matter because is doesn't change the fact that it is A STORY TOLD WITH PICTURES. No matter what language you describe it in or write it in, a story told with pictures will always be a story told with pictures!

I am planning to write/draw a story told with pictures some day. It will very likely have more similarities to what is often considered a 'manga style' than that which is often considered a 'Western style'. However, I'm probably not going to call it a manga, or a comic. I'll probably just call it a graphic novel. And you know what? People can call it a manga, people can call it a comic, they can call it a bloody PICTURE BOOK, 'cause it really doesn't matter.

At. All.

It's not like novels in different languages or different cultures are suddenly not novels. Because 'novel' is just a word for a story told with words that is over a certain length. Just like graphic novel/comic/manga are just words for a story told with pictures.

Letila, nobody is stopping you from making it. It's yourself. You really are thinking too much into this.

If I can't draw the way I want to, I'm not going to bother. It's about as effective as voting in a USSR election.

A manga is a subartform, like a mural is a kind of painting or a melodrama is a kind of theatre drama. There are distinct stylistic differences in the way it is drawn and laid out as well as pacing, all of which I could learn, but won't have the opportunity to attempt because I'm a baka no gaijin.

If I can't draw the way I want to, I'm not going to bother. It's about as effective as voting in a USSR election.

A manga is a subartform, like a mural is a kind of painting or a melodrama is a kind of theatre drama.

Funny story. Draw what you want. Case solved.

Letila >.< Look... the japanese are not out to get you, they are NOT out to sabotage your dreams. Manga is the western term for comics from Japan, it SPECIFIES a point of origin, in a way that Mural, Jazz, Rock, or any of the other example's you've given don't. You can still draw in manga style, it won't get the name, outside of perhaps in the phrase "pseudo-manga." And you don't need to mail it off to japan for this to happen.

http://www.megatokyo.com
http://www.sokora.com

Both of these are by american artists, Both are published, both use what has been called "manga style." Some people even call them manga, others just call them comics, or they go with the term "graphic novels."

Okay, look at it this way. I play pop music over here. Its called pop music. Say I'm a native of japan, I currently live there, I play the SAME EXACT SONG. Its called J-pop. Its the same way with manga. Make it over there, its Manga, make it over here, without changing a SINGLE thing, it's a comic. Just like it is over there. If you want to loose your damn mind, learn japanese, and pay money to send off your comic to the VERY selective selection process used by Weekly Jump and similar magazines, go right ahead, it'll be a massive waste of time though, as you could just buy some webspace (or sign up with comicgenesis) post your comics there, and if you're any good, get published, even by a publisher most often associated with manga, such as Tokyo Pop, I can think of 4 different series being published by them that are american in origin, 2 of which use the manga style. Make your comic, use the manga style, get published, make a billion dollars, the Yakuza aren't going to kill you with piano wire, but it'll still never be true manga. It can be pseudo-manga, you can call it manga all you want, instruct your fans to do the same. It will never be TRUE manga. Now admitted, japan has the unique trait of every last thing we have of theirs that is brought over here gets some title tacked onto it telling us it Japanese, but its not like they're the ones making this choice, if anything, it's the American fans of these same things. Okay, imagine for a moment that there was a word in the english language that specifies that a comic was american in origin. Shinchi Watanabe can draw comics in the EXACT style of Spiderman, but he still wouldn't be able to put this title on his comic, because its not american. Once again, there IS No conspiracy, the monopoly is a pure result of terminology, and your obsession with the fact that you weren't born somewhere between Tokyo and Osaka is stupid, assine, and just plan sad!

I know. I am well aware that no matter what I do, I will not get my way. However, that does not mean that I am happy about it. I will simply find some other artform to tell my story in. There are plenty of them out there.

I know. I am well aware that no matter what I do, I will not get my way. However, that does not mean that I am happy about it. I will simply find some other artform to tell my story in. There are plenty of them out there.

Dude, what 'way'? Just fricken' draw what you want and stop trying to conform!

A label does not change what something is inherently. If everyone started calling Dragonball Z a comic, it would not automatically change into Superman. Yeesh.

If you're having motivation and committment problems with drawing out a story, then don't start whining and blaming other cultures for holding you back.

You know, you could write the manga in English and send it to an America comic book publishing company.

Dude, what 'way'? Just fricken' draw what you want and stop trying to conform!

A label does not change what something is inherently. If everyone started calling Dragonball Z a comic, it would not automatically change into Superman. Yeesh.

If you're having motivation and committment problems with drawing out a story, then don't start whining and blaming other cultures for holding you back.

Yes, all that may be true, but as I've mentioned before, I'm not interested in doing comics, so I won't. I don't draw my ideas and stylistic preferences from comics nor do they appeal to me. If they are my option, I reject that option.

Yes, all that may be true, but as I've mentioned before, I'm not interested in doing comics, so I won't. I don't draw my ideas and stylistic preferences from comics nor do they appeal to me. If they are my option, I reject that option.

Um... I am not telling you to draw a comic... I'm telling YOU to draw what YOU want, no matter what label someone might give to it. Draw in YOUR style, draw YOUR ideas, draw YOUR layouts, and YOUR characters, and YOUR plots, because guess what? Drawing a story out in pictures is all about YOU, YOU do it!

Seriously, if you don't think you can do it, then DON'T, but STOP YOU BLOODY WHINING and don't blame anybody else for any inability you might have to stick to your own ideas and style.

Yes, all that may be true, but as I've mentioned before, I'm not interested in doing comics, so I won't. I don't draw my ideas and stylistic preferences from comics nor do they appeal to me. If they are my option, I reject that option.
Stop being such a god-damn Japanophile. The only difference between a American comic and an Japanese manga is the fact that comics are produced on a larger sheet of paper and in short serials, while mangas are produced on smaller paper and in longer parts. The only other difference is art and that is easily interchangable. Enlarge a manga to comic size and it's still the same story and art. Just now it'll be called a Japanese comic.

Stop being such a god-damn Japanophile. The only difference between a American comic and an Japanese manga is the fact that comics are produced on a larger sheet of paper and in short serials, while mangas are produced on smaller paper and in longer parts. The only other difference is art and that is easily interchangable. Enlarge a manga to comic size and it's still the same story and art. Just now it'll be called a Japanese comic.

I'm not a Japanophile. I just like the artform of manga.

Um... I am not telling you to draw a comic... I'm telling YOU to draw what YOU want, no matter what label someone might give to it. Draw in YOUR style, draw YOUR ideas, draw YOUR layouts, and YOUR characters, and YOUR plots, because guess what? Drawing a story out in pictures is all about YOU, YOU do it!

Seriously, if you don't think you can do it, then DON'T, but STOP YOU BLOODY WHINING and don't blame anybody else for any inability you might have to stick to your own ideas and style.

Why should I have to invent my own style when there is one widely used that I like already?

あなたバカ! Letila, I'm starting to get the impression that you have no real desier to actually draw the damn thing, you're just wanting to make a target of Japan.

Jesh, JUST DRAW IT! You can call it manga, you can call it art, you can call it late for supper, whatever! If you call it managa I can tell you that Prime Minister Koizumi is NOT going to send a team of ninja after you to give you heaven's punishment for daring to call it manga.

What IS your point? Is it manga only if your comic is published in Japan? You can try, but it's a wast of time, the market is saturated. The US sees a very, very small part of what is published in Japan. There are literally hundreds of titles and more come out each year. Only the very, very best get published in Japan.

Is it having it called manga in America? Can't help you there because THAT is up to everyone in America and Americans have gotten it into their heads that manga can only come from Japan, a very silly idea, but there you are.

There IS NO MANGA STYLE! What you think of manga style, the big eyes small mouth thing, is based upon Osamu Tezuka's styles (who in turn based them off of early Disney cartoons), but honestly the styles run the full gambit and are not locked, again though, you mainly see the big eyes, small mouths styles in the US because that's WHAT AMERICANS EXPECT!

So what do you mean Japan is keeping you from drawing Manga? Why do you inists that there is some dark plot by the Japanese to keep YOU from calling your work manga?

あたまいたいー　 :headbang:

FYI, Baka no gaijin ( バカの外人 ) would translate out to idiot's gaijin. If you're refering to yourself, you'd be better off saying baka gaijin.

I was under the impression that the word "manga" was the Japanese word
for comics -- books or strips.
And the word Anime was the word for cartoons - animated cartoons,
short for animation, like many Japanese words are shortened versions of a longer.

I could be wrong. Not living there, only studying the language leaves one
with textbook terminology and whatever the teachers know.



Then we in the states addapted those
words to mean comics and cartoons from Japan.
They seem to have gotten another redefining again,
as a type of drawing style to clone the typical style of
Japanese artists.
I believed so too till I came over here and you almost never hear or see anime or manga. Anime is used mainly as a shorthand way to refer to, say, video store catagories (like you would find cartoons under 'Toons'), but all Japanese I have run into (and being in Japan that's quite a lot ;) ) say animeshuun, and use that to refer to ALL animated offerings. One of my fellow teachers was absolutly amazed when I told him that in my university we had an anime club. He was even MORE amazed that said club didn't watch Disney or WB, but only Japanese animation. He had never heard of anime being ONLY stuff from Japan.

Manga has a bit more history, technically, manga refers to illustrated prints used in conjuntion with kabuki back in the Edou period. Most of them bordered on (or were) pornographic. When the printing press was brought to Japan, manga came to refer to anything illustrated. During WWII, when English was kicked out of Japan for the war, it came to mean comics. Once Japan opened up and started borrowing English words again, komiku became popular. All 500 of my students run through the halls screaming about komiku. I only hear manga from older Japanese.

But you're right, the American/Western fan base adoppted anime and manga as a way to set the offerings from Japan apart from the native western fare. Just as we have taken otaku has a lable for ourselves with some pride, whereas in Japan, otaku is NOT a nice lable.

あなたバカ! Letila, I'm starting to get the impression that you have no real desier to actually draw the damn thing, you're just wanting to make a target of Japan.

Not really. If I wanted to make a target of Japan, I would attack it for something far more significant than a

あたまいたいー　

FYI, Baka no gaijin ( バカの外人 ) would translate out to idiot's gaijin. If you're refering to yourself, you'd be better off saying baka gaijin.

Interesting, I thought you had to have a particle ga or wa in a sentence like Atama itai and baka was written in kanji.

I'm inclined to believe you over the other posters, if only because you have first hand experience in Japan and no apparent reason to lie. Still, I'll be looking for some hard evidence to resolve this issue.

Why should I have to invent my own style when there is one widely used that I like already?

You don't need to invent your own style, it's something that comes naturally. Unless of course you pick a specific manga-ka and then try really, really hard to emulate their particular style specifically. However, if someone ever did this for anything other than fanart, it would strike me as little better than plagiarism.

Other than that, if you put your drawing utensil (pen, pencil, paintbrush, bloody finger...) down on a piece of paper (or canvas, etc.) and move it around until it creates an image... then that is your style.

Take that style, think up a story and some characters, then make yourself up a layout that looks good to you, and DRAW.

Anything else is just making up excuses not to do it. There are no style police. You can draw something and it can be so ugly that it makes people hurl, and still nobody can stop you from drawing that way. So why is some minutiae involving terms stopping you?

Interesting, I thought you had to have a particle ga or wa in a sentence like Atama itai and baka was written in kanji.
Not in this case, unless you happen to mention the actual subject, such as saying 僕はあたまいたいです　(Boku wa atama itai), but since you're dropping the subject (as it's obvious who has the headache around here) it has no particle. And yes, while baka does have its own kanji, you rarely see it if it's being used as an insult, mainly to call attention to it.

I'm inclined to believe you over the other posters, if only because you have first hand experience in Japan and no apparent reason to lie. Still, I'll be looking for some hard evidence to resolve this issue.
Well, once again I ask you WHY you think that you cannot draw manga, who's going to stop you? If you draw using styles normally found in Japanese manga, no one is going to hunt you down for it. So, to quote Bugs, what's all the hubbub, Bub?

Well, once again I ask you WHY you think that you cannot draw manga, who's going to stop you? If you draw using styles normally found in Japanese manga, no one is going to hunt you down for it. So, to quote Bugs, what's all the hubbub, Bub?

All my sources other than you say that only the Japanese can make manga, so I naturally assumed that they were correct.

All my sources other than you say that only the Japanese can make manga, so I naturally assumed that they were correct.
Tell ya what, I have lunch this month with one of my first year classes (US 7th grade). They are the largest consumers of manga in my small town. If I can get them to stop talking about stool (don't ask, please don't ask) for a minute, I'll see if they agree that ONLY Japanese can draw manga. Would THAT settle this for you?

All my sources other than you say that only the Japanese can make manga, so I naturally assumed that they were correct.

You can draw in a style that resembles styles you often see in manga. You can draw with layouts the resemble what you often see in manga. You can call what you create manga. Others can call what you create manga. Others can call what you create manga. Stop being obsessed with the little details of language.

The fact is, that by current common usage of the term manga in Western society, it does not in fact refer to any particular style, but instead refers to the wide variety of different styles of graphic novel (aka. stories that tell pictures) that come out of Japan. By this definition, someone could make something that in every way resembles a typical Western comic, but if they're from Japan it would be considered a manga.

But the truth of the matter is that it doesn't really matter what the hell you call something.

Tell ya what, I have lunch this month with one of my first year classes (US 7th grade). They are the largest consumers of manga in my small town. If I can get them to stop talking about stool (don't ask, please don't ask) for a minute, I'll see if they agree that ONLY Japanese can draw manga. Would THAT settle this for you?

Maybe, but could you point me to a site that confirms it?

Well, since it's time for bed, not to mention the fact that you seem to be ignoring me, Letila, I am going to stop arguing, or talking at you, or whatever it is exactly I'm doing.

You're obviously too concerned with what other people think to actually get up a draw out a story. If you really wanted to, you'd just do whatever you liked with your story and art, to hell what anyone else thinks.

Goonight!

Holy crap, I have borne witness to a battle over 'Strict v. Loose interpretation of defining a manga' - WTF

Maybe, but could you point me to a site that confirms it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga
http://www.tapanime.com/Subpages/theinfo.html
http://www.animeinfo.org/animeu/hist102-l1.html

Are some sites that make no claims that ONLY Japanese can draw manga. Instead they say, as everyone on this thread has said, manga JUST MEANS COMICS! So if you're drawing comics, you're drawing manga.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga
http://www.tapanime.com/Subpages/theinfo.html
http://www.animeinfo.org/animeu/hist102-l1.html

Are some sites that make no claims that ONLY Japanese can draw manga. Instead they say, as everyone on this thread has said, manga JUST MEANS COMICS! So if you're drawing comics, you're drawing manga.

While it doesn't say specifically "Only Japanese can make manga" on any of those pages, they pretty clearly imply it. Think about how they talk about it in relation to Japan and you will see that they do indeed imply that manga is specifically Japanese.

While it doesn't say specifically "Only Japanese can make manga" on any of those pages, they pretty clearly imply it. Think about how they talk about it in relation to Japan and you will see that they do indeed imply that manga is specifically Japanese.
I give up. Do as you will and believe what you wish.

I give up. Do as you will and believe what you wish.

What, I was just reading your evidence.

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that you are free to write and draw whatever you want. If you like the style generally associated with Manga, you can use that style. If it is very good, you may even be able to market it successfully in Japan. There are no rules that say only Japanese people can draw tentacle rape and giant robot comics. Go ahead and create your work, no one is stopping you. Whether it will be marketed as manga or not is irrelevant.

Wow. I've never said this before, but I want my five minutes back.

Someone can't draw something, because someone else - who they have never met, nor are likely to meet - may or may not refer to it in a fashion they don't approve of. Silliness. Utter silliness. Draw the fucking thing in a style you like and just call it manga. If it's any good, people will accept it as such.

(And what the hell is the difference between a comic and a manga anyway? That's like getting pissed off because someone lumps you XXX prison ass rape movie in with "gonzo" porn, instead of the more "prestigious" story porn.)

While it doesn't say specifically "Only Japanese can make manga" on any of those pages, they pretty clearly imply it. Think about how they talk about it in relation to Japan and you will see that they do indeed imply that manga is specifically Japanese.
You want evidence Letila? HERE! HERE'S YOU GOD-DAMN EVIDENCE!
http://www.megatokyo.com/
I'm pretty sure Fred Gallagher isn't Japanese.

Wow, that finally shut him up. Well done.

*snip*

Manga has a bit more history, technically, manga refers to illustrated prints used in conjuntion with kabuki back in the Edou period. Most of them bordered on (or were) pornographic. When the printing press was brought to Japan, manga came to refer to anything illustrated. During WWII, when English was kicked out of Japan for the war, it came to mean comics. Once Japan opened up and started borrowing English words again, komiku became popular. All 500 of my students run through the halls screaming about komiku. I only hear manga from older Japanese.

*snip*


I must believe you as you're living in Japan, but I've heard them using words "anime" and "manga" in Japanese series. For example, in Kanon, whenever speaking of comics, the characters use the word "manga." As I watched it as fansubbed (I admit!), it was translated in the subtitles as "manga," but then again you must never trust fansubbers. They seem to have an odd obsession to use Japanese terms over English ones.

In the anime version of Fruits Basket, in the beginning of some episode Tohru (the main character) says, "somehow, this has turned into a fighting anime." It was an official DVD version and "anime" was in both audio and subtitles (at least as far as I can remember). Later in the series, when they're watching a TV show, one of the characters says, "The one with the problems must be the makers of that anime ."

Why do they use these words if they are generally very rare in Japan? Is it for the western (=American) audience? Sounds quite funny that they would think of a foreign audience.

Letila, I'm adding my voice to the grand Greek chorus - quit muncing around and do it. Do up a doujinshi, come to a convention, and see if the manga police try to cart you away....

If I can get them to stop talking about stool (don't ask, please don't ask) for a minute, I'll see if they agree that ONLY Japanese can draw manga. Would THAT settle this for you?

LOL NERVUNさん。 My kids (no middle schoolers this year, just the kindergarten and elementary aged kids) are just as bad, and maybe worse. The most popular "team names" for games seem to be うんこ and ちんちん.

I'll add to the informal poll by asking my reliable sources this question.

(Japanese people who know me are used to this. I get to ask lots of weird questions as I seek low down and gritty "man on the street" info on Japan for my network of back homers and a couple of other websites - particularly snopes.com. Imagine what looks I got when asking around about a certain urban legemd regarding Japanese freak sex shows... I know for a fact I got labled a 変人 at one internet cafe for that exact question...)

Manga has a bit more history, technically, manga refers to illustrated prints used in conjuntion with kabuki back in the Edou period. Most of them bordered on (or were) pornographic. When the printing press was brought to Japan, manga came to refer to anything illustrated. During WWII, when English was kicked out of Japan for the war, it came to mean comics. Once Japan opened up and started borrowing English words again, komiku became popular. All 500 of my students run through the halls screaming about komiku. I only hear manga from older Japanese.


I think I read something about wood carvings or maybe prints on wood blocks
(during the war?) in a magazine from the 90s called "MangaJin".

Komikus.

And all ages generally read Komikus?
Or is that another mistake I got?
Or is it only Salariman who read them on the train besides kids?

Why do they use these words if they are generally very rare in Japan? Is it for the western (=American) audience? Sounds quite funny that they would think of a foreign audience.
Well, I didn't say they were never used, just that it is rare to actually hear them. For anime though, I would ask you to listen closely and check that it is actually anime and not animeshun. As to why they would use them, dunno, haven't asked the series creators. ;) But please remember that when it comes to manga/komiku it would be the same as saying graphic novels/comics, word choice in other words (not quite the same as there's a different term for compliations, but best English equivlent). Saying comics or comicbook is more popular in English, but true fans tend to use graphic novels and it could have been inreference to that.

LOL NERVUNさん。 My kids (no middle schoolers this year, just the kindergarten and elementary aged kids) are just as bad, and maybe worse. The most popular "team names" for games seem to be うんこ and ちんちん.
It's my own fault. I got tired of them constantly asking what the English word was for the brown stuff coming out of their rears (though I admit the miming the used to ASK me this was priceless) was. I figured, knowing that if I told them I'd hear it all year long, that stool was safe enough (Teacher: Why do they keep saying stool? Me: I dunno, I have no idea why they like chairs so much). No... having a boy scream "I LIKE STOOL!" at the top of his lungs, at lunch... is an interesting experiance.

I usually assign teams names, my, and my kid's favorite, choice being 焼き猫

I'll add to the informal poll by asking my reliable sources this question.
My kids, once they understood the question in English, were very confused. To them manga is manga no matter where it comes from.

I think I read something about wood carvings or maybe prints on wood blocks (during the war?) in a magazine from the 90s called "MangaJin".
Erk... sorry, this is what I get for simplifying. Hokay, manga as an art form actually can be said to have roots back in the 12th century with Buddhist drawings that, like the manga today, consentrait on stories and simple lines of form, they're not manga, but you can see where the notion came from.

Manga, as a term, came from the great ukiyo-e (woodblock artist) Hokusai. These were random drawings from his sketchbook. HE called them manga (irresponicble drawings), but they are not really what we'd consider manga (no story, just drawings). The kabuki prints I mentioned kind of combined all of that into serial stories and are closer to the idea of manga as we know it.

Most of them were woodblock prints.

Komikus.

And all ages generally read Komikus?
Or is that another mistake I got?
Or is it only Salariman who read them on the train besides kids?
Oh kamisama no, EVERYONE reads them and there is a comic for every type of person in Japan. Even us lonely gainjin (who get smiles when they read the bilingual Sazae-san on the train home from Tokyo next to an old lady).

My kids, once they understood the question in English, were very confused. To them manga is manga no matter where it comes from.

When you say that, they mean it in the way that for an English person a graphic novel is a graphic novel no matter where it comes from?

Heh, in a way, Letila's problem with terminology and styles is the fault of Westerner's borrowing another language's term for comic to refer to comics from that area, instead of just calling them comics/graphic novels from Japan.

Thanks, NERVUN.

It's my own fault. I got tired of them constantly asking what the English word was for the brown stuff coming out of their rears (though I admit the miming the used to ASK me this was priceless) was. I figured, knowing that if I told them I'd hear it all year long, that stool was safe enough (Teacher: Why do they keep saying stool? Me: I dunno, I have no idea why they like chairs so much). No... having a boy scream "I LIKE STOOL!" at the top of his lungs, at lunch... is an interesting experiance.

I usually assign teams names, my, and my kid's favorite, choice being 焼き猫

I usualy teach "poo". The best team name ever "Pirate ET Poo".
(And before anyone says we're hijacking, this does have tangental relivance - remember the Dr. Slump character Unchi-kun.)

Oh kamisama no, EVERYONE reads them and there is a comic for every type of person in Japan. Even us lonely gainjin (who get smiles when they read the bilingual Sazae-san on the train home from Tokyo next to an old lady).

Yep. I'm always amazed at the variety found in the comics section.
My adult students always get a laugh when I mention that Doraemon comics are one of my best study resources for reading.

Erk... sorry, this is what I get for simplifying. Hokay, manga as an art form actually can be said to have roots back in the 12th century with Buddhist drawings that, like the manga today, consentrait on stories and simple lines of form, they're not manga, but you can see where the notion came from.

Manga, as a term, came from the great ukiyo-e (woodblock artist) Hokusai. These were random drawings from his sketchbook. HE called them manga (irresponicble drawings), but they are not really what we'd consider manga (no story, just drawings). The kabuki prints I mentioned kind of combined all of that into serial stories and are closer to the idea of manga as we know it.

Most of them were woodblock prints.



I was just adding more info of what I heard,
not trying to contridict you. Sorry.

Yep. I'm always amazed at the variety found in the comics section.
My adult students always get a laugh when I mention that Doraemon comics are one of my best study resources for reading.
I don't see why not, I use the bilingual Doraemon in my classes at various points in time. My kids love them.

I was just adding more info of what I heard, not trying to contridict you. Sorry.
Oh I didn't view it as a contradiction, I was just a little bit flustered that I got caught out simplifying things when I shouldn't have. ;)

Interesting stories, NERVUN.

And in my informal poll, taken at a bar last night, 5 out of 5 Japanese asked said there was no difference between manga and comics.

And the big comics fan I asked said you should do up a doujinshi and come to a convention. :D

And the big comics fan I asked said you should do up a doujinshi and come to a convention

I'm more interested in doing an original story, really.

I'm more interested in doing an original story, really.

:confused:

Yes, and a good way to do that is to do a doujinshi.