NationStates Jolt Archive

Now this is political postering by Japan and China. Not to be missed though is the seriousness of the issues between Japan and China. They basically have said that if China tries a power move against Japan for support of US backed counter-attack over a Taiwan invasion by mainland China. Also the move on the Diaoyu island group by Chinese troops to secure natural resources. They will fight China. This is an interesting move by Japan to release this news bit.

How do some of you armchair generals, politicians feel this is going to pan out in the future?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/30/content_3565160.htm

If China ever attacks Japan the Japanese will unleash their army of giant robots![/sarcasm]

Japan will get their ass kicked and the war will be over before the US can get there.

Japan will get their ass kicked and the war will be over before the US can get there.
Don't we have a small base in Okinawa tho?

if this attack happens, bush will use it as an excuse to wipe out the chinese and claim it as an accident, Bush:"oooops, no one told me what the big red button does"

The Japanese government is being stupid. The UN should bitch-slap some sense into them before they go rogue-state and do something stupid.

Err... that's propaganda, not news.

Well, they're not exactly the most tolerant nation, to be brutally honest.

Don't we have a small base in Okinawa tho?

Yes we do have bases there. Not as many as we had in the mid 60's but we have some.

There's certainly no problem with Japan planning for the worst, but why are they releasing these plans to the public? Metinks Japan is trying to provoke China.

The Japanese government is being stupid. The UN should bitch-slap some sense into them before they go rogue-state and do something stupid.

It is only a plan. Nations all over the world do military planning based on different scenarios. The don't wait for something to happen before they make plans. If they did wait, by the time the plans were complete it would be too late. If they already have plans, all they have to do is dust them off, update them and put them in action.

Hell, I'll bet China has plans for invading the US, Australia, etc., etc. Doesn't mean they will use them.

japan has excelent armed forces

better equiped and trained then any help the us could give

the us is there to provide cannon fodder and nuclear weapons

japan has excelent armed forces

better equiped and trained then any help the us could give

the us is there to provide cannon fodder and nuclear weapons

Agreed... mostly. The Japanese military (technically self-defense force) should not be underrated. Absolutely cutting-edge conventional high-tech.

japan has excelent armed forces

better equiped and trained then any help the us could give

the us is there to provide cannon fodder and nuclear weapons


:rolleyes: You do know Japan uses pretty much the same stuff as the US for the most part, right?

if this attack happens, bush will use it as an excuse to wipe out the chinese and claim it as an accident, Bush:"oooops, no one told me what the big red button does"

Knock off the trolling Cheese penguins. If you're going to contribute to the thread, do so in a proper debate fashion rather than using attacks for support.

I like to see the Japanese stand up to those darn chinese commies. I hope they do invade taiwan, just so The U.S and Japan can kick their red @$$es back to china.

The Japanese government is being stupid. The UN should bitch-slap some sense into them before they go rogue-state and do something stupid.
This shouldn't even be news. It's just generals throwing some ideas around, and the newspaper happens to report on this as if generals never worked in peacetime before.

Almost every year it is revealed that China is working on an invasion plan of Taiwan. A year ago news services revealed that Taiwan's warplan for Chinese invasion could possibly involve joint American and Taiwanese airstrike against Three Gorges Dam. And then Chinese news counterrevealed that China would nuke American bases in Japan if Three Gorges were hit.

No one called for China, Japan, or US to be bitch-slapped by the UN, and this "new" development is most likely nothing to worry about. A bit of posturing and war scares every now and then is typical in East Asia, and always leads to nothing since people realize how horrible and stupid a massive new Pacific war in the flesh is compared to a war on paper.

I like to see the Japanese stand up to those darn chinese commies. I hope they do invade taiwan, just so The U.S and Japan can kick their red @$$es back to china.
No no, how bout this:

I like to see the chinese KMT stand up to those darn chinese commies. I hope they do invade taiwan, just so The U.S and the KMT army can kick their @$$es back to russia (or N.korea, kimmy land, etc). :D :D :D

Seriously, why do Mao have to exist?

Agreed... mostly. The Japanese military (technically self-defense force) should not be underrated. Absolutely cutting-edge conventional high-tech.

The massive size of the Chinese military makes up for what they lack in technology. Oh, and remember that China has the nuclear option while Japan does not.

The massive size of the Chinese military makes up for what they lack in technology. Oh, and remember that China has the nuclear option while Japan does not.Japan has the benefit of being an island. They don't necessarily need a big force to keep the Chinese off. The backside of that is that they will need the US Navy to keep the oceans clear enough to get supplies in.

How would the chinese make it onto japan? Jump from manchuria?

Whatever the chinese could muster up, to invade china with, would be met with both Japanese airforce, navy, and US airforce and navy(including all those stealth planes we have in the pacific, remember moving them there for possible action in korea?).

China probably wouldn't have a chance at landing troops, without the big red button.

Now this is political postering by Japan and China. Not to be missed though is the seriousness of the issues between Japan and China. They basically have said that if China tries a power move against Japan for support of US backed counter-attack over a Taiwan invasion by mainland China. Also the move on the Diaoyu island group by Chinese troops to secure natural resources. They will fight China. This is an interesting move by Japan to release this news bit.

How do some of you armchair generals, politicians feel this is going to pan out in the future?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/30/content_3565160.htm
Relax. Military types do "contingency plans" all the time. It's no biggie. :p

The massive size of the Chinese military makes up for what they lack in technology. Oh, and remember that China has the nuclear option while Japan does not.

It is estimated that Japan can build nukes in under a month... ;)

Relax. Military types do "contingency plans" all the time. It's no biggie. :p

True, but they usually have the good sense to keep them classified and not released to the media.

Ok, 1. You're looking at a mouthpiece for the CCP, the tendancy to distort facts from the Chinese press is well known.

2. On Taiwan, this isn't a mere hypothedical, Japan and the US has very, very close military ties and have stated jointly that China's intentions towards Taiwan is one of the biggest destablizers in the region (behind North Korea and whatever Dear Leader desides to do).

3. Those disputed islands are not as easily said to be China's. Actually the damn things are claimed by 3 (four if you don't piggyback N Korea's claim on S Korea's, 5 if you split Taiwan from China) different countries. Japan has repeatedly suggested taking the whole damn mess to the UN for judgement, but has been rebuffed by the other nations.

Brass tacks: The SDF is actually a well funded and well equiped military. It's budget is larger than the UK's or France's. It's known for it's silliness, but it does posess teeth. And the US presence in Japan is not small. Japan is the only place that is the perminate home to US forces outside of the US or its territores (namely the US 7th Fleet and the 3d Marine Expeditionary Brigade, the US Army is planning to relocate the 1st Corps there). Any counter strike the US would launch against China for invading Taiwan would come from Japan, so Japan's worries about a China strike on it in the event that China does decide to invade Taiwan are real.

Oh, and Japan is covered under the US nuclear umbrella, and given the bases scattered around Japan, any stike against Japan is sure to effect US military personel, probably causing a retaliation from the US on that fact alone.

Finally, as Eutrusca said, militaries love planning. I think I remember the US military drawing up a plan should we get invaded by Canada again.

Wouldn't it be smarter and cheaper for Japan to simply release Godzilla?

Finally, as Eutrusca said, militaries love planning. I think I remember the US military drawing up a plan should we get invaded by Canada again. LOL!!! Look at our army, it's underfunded. Nothing but broken seakings and leaky british submarines. BTW, Canada got a better trained army than the Americans had.

Anyway, what's up with China, Japan, and Taiwan fighting over Diaoyu Islands. It's just a bunch of useless rocks.

Wouldn't it be smarter and cheaper for Japan to simply release Godzilla?

The problem is that Godzilla is very hard to steer. More likely he'll end up being in Tokyo demanding sushi from bars that won't serve 80 storey tall lizards and smashing the place in rage :p

The problem is that Godzilla is very hard to steer. More likely he'll end up being in Tokyo demanding sushi from bars that won't serve 80 storey tall lizards and smashing the place in rage :p

Do many Japanese Sushi bars refuse to serve 80 story-tall lizards? :eek:

This was inevitable. Japan, even after WWII, enjoyed being the biggest player in Asia. Now, China is starting to overtake it. But it will merely be little disputes, partly because China and Japan are very closely linked economically. In fact, Japan can owe its economic recovery to, in part, the rise of China.

The problem is that Godzilla is very hard to steer. More likely he'll end up being in Tokyo demanding sushi from bars that won't serve 80 storey tall lizards and smashing the place in rage :p

Perhaps they should use mothra...

Or mabey the vast Japanese arsenal of Pokemon.

Anyway, what's up with China, Japan, and Taiwan fighting over Diaoyu Islands. It's just a bunch of useless rocks.

They will keep fighting over the Daiyou Islands because then they have everything within 200 nautical miles of it as well, meaning all of the petroleum and resources under the water.

Now this is political postering by Japan and China. Not to be missed though is the seriousness of the issues between Japan and China. They basically have said that if China tries a power move against Japan for support of US backed counter-attack over a Taiwan invasion by mainland China. Also the move on the Diaoyu island group by Chinese troops to secure natural resources. They will fight China. This is an interesting move by Japan to release this news bit.

How do some of you armchair generals, politicians feel this is going to pan out in the future?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-09/30/content_3565160.htm

Any country that doesnt plan for what other countrys may try to do to it , will not be a country for long. The fact that the Chinese already put out propaganda bullshit to protest legitimate planning by Japan shows that they have an interest in keeping Japan " cowed " . Good for Japan China would be nothing but sushi if they attempted an invasion of any of Japans territory .
just how do they get accross the water and if they do how do they maintain a supply line ? China has never had much of a navy and they have no counter for offensive air power from the US . Not to mention their air force is not considered first rate either training or equipment . They should stick to making washing machines for a while longer .

Don't we have a small base in Okinawa tho?
Yep, along with one or two boomer subs parked on that side of the pacific. Be game over for China if they tried something like that.

LOL!!! Look at our army, it's underfunded. Nothing but broken seakings and leaky british submarines. BTW, Canada got a better trained army than the Americans had.
They never said it was going to be a LONG war. ;)

Damned if I know why they did it, but my idea is that they were just bored.

Do many Japanese Sushi bars refuse to serve 80 story-tall lizards?
Not to my knowledge, though there is much more of a chance that Godzilla would be served AS sushi, which is enough to piss anyone off.

I remember reading somewhere that China doesn't have the naval capability to invade Taiwan/Japan. Anyone care to confirm?

Japan will get their ass kicked and the war will be over before the US can get there.

just for future reference theres already US forces in japan.

I remember reading somewhere that China doesn't have the naval capability to invade Taiwan/Japan. Anyone care to confirm?

They have a fairly good navy if thats what your asking but if they have a navy that can match Taiwan and Japan thats a definite no-no. After all Japan is an island....

By the way I would like to keep this debate on a politicial level that means no calling chinese commies and washing machine makers (LOL) and all Japanese baby shooters and nerds. I would like to keep this fairly peaceful.

China is silly in that way. They'll put in production ships that will be obsolete by the time they come off the assembly line. China is a paper tiger on the water and in the air.

China is silly in that way. They'll put in production ships that will be obsolete by the time they come off the assembly line. China is a paper tiger on the water and in the air.

You obviously don't know about there air power. Their modernizing it as we speak and funny enough America is so against there military but some of the weapons they get are bought off America. There air power is growing quite powerful but yeah there water power sucks but you have to admit after 3000 years of never needing to get into ship battle they really don't care about it as much.

Do many Japanese Sushi bars refuse to serve 80 story-tall lizards? :eek:

It's the whole money thing. Being big, green-black and of nasty disposition tends to prevent one from acquiring a paying job. Then there's that dress code. Japanese sushi bars are a bit lax about the dress code, but there is a minimum of no shirt, no pants no service.

And when did you last see a lizard with pants? ;)

You obviously don't know about there air power. They modernizing it as we speak and funny enough America is so against there military but some of the weapons they get are bought off America. There air power is growing quite powerful but yeah there water power sucks but you have to admit after 3000 years of never needing to get into ship battle they really don't care about it as much.
China's Airforce can suck my groin. Even if they're purchasing the most modern MiGs they've no combat experienced pilots to fly them. Currently even India's airforce could decimate any air assault led by the Chinese. They simply don't have enough experienced pilots.

China's Airforce can suck my groin. Eve if they're purchasing the most modern MiGs they no combat experienced pilots to fly them. Currently even India's airforce could decimate any air assault led by the Chinese. They simple don't have enough experienced pilots.

Lol I'm not sure how a plane can open its engine and clamp onto your groan but.....

Currently there are almost no combat experienced pilots unless your talking about old men from world war 2 if you haven't noticed the only people who have any young experienced soldiers are the ones in Iraq and even then no country is using air forces in this war. SOOO no country has experienced pilots the big bad world war 2 is over buddy :D

Perhaps they should use mothra...

Or mabey the vast Japanese arsenal of Pokemon.

Don't go there. You can bet that if Japan started that, China would buy out the tellytubbies and Barnie and mass manufacture them *shudder*

Don't go there. You can bet that if Japan started that, China would buy out the tellytubbies and Barnie and mass manufacture them *shudder*

GASP
THE EVIL PO, LILA and can't remember the rest of the teletubies will charge with there evil laser beams that are on there head

Barbie will march and use her boob of death!!!
THE WORLD IS DOOMED!!!

Lol I'm not sure how a plane can open its engine and clamp onto your groan but.....

Currently there are almost no combat experienced pilots unless your talking about old men from world war 2 if you haven't noticed the only people who have any young experienced soldiers are the ones in Iraq and even then no country is using air forces in this war. SOOO no country has experienced pilots the big bad world war 2 is over buddy :D
Dude, the average American pilot has at least twice the amount of flight hours that a Chinese fighter pilot could get. For god's sakes, we downed one of them by accident with a spyplane (remember that? Slow big plane versus, fast small and agile fighter, look who went down). :p

GASP
THE EVIL PO, LILA and can't remember the rest of the teletubies will charge with there evil laser beams that are on there head

Barbie will march and use her boob of death!!!
THE WORLD IS DOOMED!!!

Psst, I said Barnie AKA Barney AKA the purple monstrosity.

Dude, the average American pilot has at least twice the amount of flight hours that a Chinese fighter pilot could get. For god's sakes, we downed one of them by accident with a spyplane (remember that? Slow big plane versus, fast small and agile fighter, look who went down). :p

Geez, you obviously would never make much of a aerospace engineer, or an engineer of any type. Your comparison is like saying the guy in the GMC 6X6 is a better driver because he smushed the guy in the Moris Minor.

Dude, the average American pilot has at least twice the amount of flight hours that a Chinese fighter pilot could get. For god's sakes, we downed one of them by accident with a spyplane (remember that? Slow big plane versus, fast small and agile fighter, look who went down). :p

I'm not saying China's air force is super upper I'm just saying that there modernizing at this moment. Naturally America can still beat them but we have the most advance army in teh world. *sarcasm* yeah were going to get our asses kicked.

Anyway I'm just saying that 20 years ago if China's air force sucked your groan it would suck it. Now it'll clamp it right off :D
There surely you can understand that example

Geez, you obviously would never make much of a aerospace engineer, or an engineer of any type. Your comparison is like saying the guy in the GMC 6X6 is a better driver because he smushed the guy in the Moris Minor.
They should have never collided in the first place! Pure operator error and just an example to make my point that China's AF isn't exactly up to snuff...yet :mp5:

I'm not saying China's air force is super upper I'm just saying that there modernizing at this moment. Naturally America can still beat them but we have the most advance army in teh world. *sarcasm* yeah were going to get our asses kicked.

Anyway I'm just saying that 20 years ago if China's air force sucked your groan it would suck it. Now it'll clamp it right off :D
There surely you can understand that example
Ow.

They should have never collided in the first place! Pure operator error and just an example to make my point that China's AF isn't exactly up to snuff...yet :mp5:

That depends. Who caused the accident in the first place? And American pilots aren't all that great either. Whoever is doing the recruiting obviously doesn't care that he occassionally pulls in the kind of guy who flies because he wants to "impress" people with damnfool stunts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/53565.stm

That depends. Who caused the accident in the first place? And American pilots aren't all that great either. Whoever is doing the recruiting obviously doesn't care that he occassionally pulls in the kind of guy who flies because he wants to "impress" people with damnfool stunts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/53565.stm
Nah, don't confuse boredom with lack of skill. Actually the article is quite amusing since no Americans died.

Nah, don't confuse boredom with lack of skill. Actually the article is quite amusing since no Americans died.

This is America reporting station
Reporter-A ship sank and 131 people died... I don't get it where's the story?
Reporter 2 whispers something to Reporter 1
Reporter-GASP THERE WERE 3 AMERICANS ON BORED WHAT A TRAGEDY!!

This is America reporting station
Reporter-A ship sank and 131 people died... I don't get it where's the story?
Reporter 2 whispers something to Reporter 1
Reporter-GASP THERE WERE 3 AMERICANS ON BORED WHAT A TRAGEDY!!
To be fair, I chuckle when it's Americans too. I do so love to indulge in schadenfreude :cool:

To be fair, I chuckle when it's Americans too. I do so love to indulge in schadenfreude :cool:

wow.... strangely enough I feel sort of strange when I see people dying on TV. I usually just think population is going down adn then leave it like that...

That depends. Who caused the accident in the first place? And American pilots aren't all that great either. Whoever is doing the recruiting obviously doesn't care that he occassionally pulls in the kind of guy who flies because he wants to "impress" people with damnfool stunts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/53565.stm

This is exactly the kind of stupid assumption making and misqouting that makes these forms difficult.

1. The person who said that pilots do this is an RAF pilot. SO apparnetly the only confirmed person who does it is HIM. Since we still don't know why the accident happened yet, note the word 'suggestion'.The suggestion that the accident was caused by an American pilot playing "games"

2. The eye witnesses contradict each other one says

some local Italian witnesses who have complained formally that some US planes have flown under the cable before

One witness, 66-year-old Carla Naia, said the plane was travelling much lower than others she had seen.

So which is it ... under the cable or this one into the cable is the lowest.

The truth is we don't know yet...do we? but hey why let lack of knowledge stop us from making generalized statements about big bad USA. Shoot the thread can be on a completely different topic and we still can find some way to do it yippeee!

Dude, the average American pilot has at least twice the amount of flight hours that a Chinese fighter pilot could get. For god's sakes, we downed one of them by accident with a spyplane (remember that? Slow big plane versus, fast small and agile fighter, look who went down). :p
It's more of a combination of the pilot's recklessness and the aircraft's bad low-speed handling characteristics, rather than anything else, and does not say anything about the PLA Air Force in general. Yes, hours are definately lower when compared with those of the US Air Force, but definately not as bad as suggested.

This is exactly the kind of stupid assumption making and misqouting that makes these forms difficult.


1. The person who said that pilots do this is an RAF pilot. SO apparnetly the only confirmed person who does it is HIM. Since we still don't know why the accident happened yet, note the word 'suggestion'.The suggestion that the accident was caused by an American pilot playing "games"

Note that the accident was not a "suggestion" though. Whoever it was that caused the accident should have been brought up on severe charges at the very least. What the heck was he doing flying at that altitude in an area with populated buildings? What next? It will be alright if someone smacks their F-18 into a local school?


2. The eye witnesses contradict each other one says

So which is it ... under the cable or this one into the cable is the lowest.

I'm working on what we DO know, which is that this guy had been flying at an altitude that would have posed a risk to any and all people and buildings in the area. Too bad this risk was actualized but that's alright is it? Nobody really cares about them eye-talians anyway.


The truth is we don't know yet...do we? but hey why let lack of knowledge stop us from making generalized statements about big bad USA. Shoot the thread can be on a completely different topic and we still can find some way to do it yippeee!

Pointing out incompetence in their air force is making a generalized statement? I didn't say all pilots were bad or that they took in bad pilots exclusively. But you still get people who do stuff like this. And do they get punished? Heck no. They get away.

So tell me then. Why was this guy flying in an inhabited area at an altitude that would have posed a risk to any tall structures such as the one he had the misfortune of actually hitting? System malfunction? Nope, nothing of that sort was released. Training? Yup, that's right. Training. Low altitude flights in areas where structures and traffic via cable car occurs. People didn't like it. They protested. The bigwigs didn't care.

Oh and guess what. This guy who caused the accident? He was acquitted. Let's see that happen if a US pilot was run over by a car while he was stationed in a foreign land.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/04/marines.cablecar.03/

So the moral of the story is join the army, go places, meet interesting people, kill them and get away scott free.

But back on topic, it only goes to prove that the US has it's fair share of incompetent and irresponsible pilots. Whose to say that the cause of the incident with the spyplane wasn't the fault of the US pilot there?

I found all the noise about the spyplane being taken apart and looked at amusing though.

"Hey! We were spying on you people! Yeah, we even got involved in smacking down one of your planes with ours in a collision. You can't look at our plane!"

Tough luck. It's a spyplane. It got caught. If your espionage hardware and spies get caught by the guy you are spying on, the Geneva convention doesn't say you get it back if they don't feel like it.

This is exactly the kind of stupid assumption making and misqouting that makes these forms difficult.

1. The person who said that pilots do this is an RAF pilot. SO apparnetly the only confirmed person who does it is HIM. Since we still don't know why the accident happened yet, note the word 'suggestion'.The suggestion that the accident was caused by an American pilot playing "games"

Note that the accident was not a "suggestion" though. Whoever it was that caused the accident should have been brought up on severe charges at the very least. What the heck was he doing flying at that altitude in an area with populated buildings? What next? It will be alright if someone smacks their F-18 into a local school?


2. The eye witnesses contradict each other one says

So which is it ... under the cable or this one into the cable is the lowest.

I'm working on what we DO know, which is that this guy had been flying at an altitude that would have posed a risk to any and all people and buildings in the area. Too bad this risk was actualized but that's alright is it? Nobody really cares about them eye-talians anyway.


The truth is we don't know yet...do we? but hey why let lack of knowledge stop us from making generalized statements about big bad USA. Shoot the thread can be on a completely different topic and we still can find some way to do it yippeee!

Pointing out incompetence in their air force is making a generalized statement? I didn't say all pilots were bad or that they took in bad pilots exclusively. But you still get people who do stuff like this. And do they get punished? Heck no. They get away.

So tell me then. Why was this guy flying in an inhabited area at an altitude that would have posed a risk to any tall structures such as the one he had the misfortune of actually hitting? System malfunction? Nope, nothing of that sort was released. Training? Yup, that's right. Training. Low altitude flights in areas where structures and traffic via cable car occurs. People didn't like it. They protested. The bigwigs didn't care.

Oh and guess what. This guy who caused the accident? He was acquitted. Let's see that happen if a US pilot was run over by a car while he was stationed in a foreign land.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/04/marines.cablecar.03/

So the moral of the story is join the army, go places, meet interesting people, kill them and get away scott free.

But back on topic, it only goes to prove that the US has it's fair share of incompetent and irresponsible pilots. Whose to say that the cause of the incident with the spyplane wasn't the fault of the US pilot there?

I found all the noise about the spyplane being taken apart and looked at amusing though.

"Hey! We were spying on you people! Yeah, we even got involved in smacking down one of your planes with ours in a collision. You can't look at our plane!"

Tough luck. It's a spyplane. It got caught. If your espionage hardware and spies get caught by the guy you are spying on, the Geneva convention doesn't say you get it back if they don't feel like it.

The SDF is actually a well funded and well equiped military. It's budget is larger than the UK's or France's.

Sorry, but no. Larger than the UK's? Yes. The French's? No.

Japan- $43,700 million (FY05)
France- $45,238.1 million (2003)

Note that the accident was not a "suggestion" though. Whoever it was that caused the accident should have been brought up on severe charges at the very least. What the heck was he doing flying at that altitude in an area with populated buildings? What next? It will be alright if someone smacks their F-18 into a local school?



I'm working on what we DO know, which is that this guy had been flying at an altitude that would have posed a risk to any and all people and buildings in the area. Too bad this risk was actualized but that's alright is it? Nobody really cares about them eye-talians anyway.



Pointing out incompetence in their air force is making a generalized statement? I didn't say all pilots were bad or that they took in bad pilots exclusively. But you still get people who do stuff like this. And do they get punished? Heck no. They get away.

So tell me then. Why was this guy flying in an inhabited area at an altitude that would have posed a risk to any tall structures such as the one he had the misfortune of actually hitting? System malfunction? Nope, nothing of that sort was released. Training? Yup, that's right. Training. Low altitude flights in areas where structures and traffic via cable car occurs. People didn't like it. They protested. The bigwigs didn't care.

Oh and guess what. This guy who caused the accident? He was acquitted. Let's see that happen if a US pilot was run over by a car while he was stationed in a foreign land.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/04/marines.cablecar.03/

So the moral of the story is join the army, go places, meet interesting people, kill them and get away scott free.

But back on topic, it only goes to prove that the US has it's fair share of incompetent and irresponsible pilots. Whose to say that the cause of the incident with the spyplane wasn't the fault of the US pilot there?

I found all the noise about the spyplane being taken apart and looked at amusing though.

"Hey! We were spying on you people! Yeah, we even got involved in smacking down one of your planes with ours in a collision. You can't look at our plane!"

Tough luck. It's a spyplane. It got caught. If your espionage hardware and spies get caught by the guy you are spying on, the Geneva convention doesn't say you get it back if they don't feel like it.

You usually wait untill the plane is in your airspace to screw with it ..you dont go find one outside your airspace and play . Spyplanes as you call them exist in all nations , they did not exist at the time of the Geneva conventions ..wtf are you talking about anyway ? The Chinese pilot was playing chase games ..practicing interception and srewed the fuck up. End of story ..usually ...but the Chinese then compounded the problem by playing " face " games . Or was it deliberate that a US was rammed in internation airspace and forced to land at a Chinese air field ? Want to start a war ?

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/docs/man-ipc-ep3_aries-010402.htm
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,59203,00.html

The US could have been easily justified in shooting down Chinese planes that get anywhere near their aircrat after this...then what ? A little war ?
Games with missles tend to escallate .

Maybe China could be nice and return these people .

STILL MISSING IN CHINA
Name Date of Loss Biography
Dunn, Joseph P 14-Feb-68 D043
Fegan, Ronald J. 09-Aug-65 F351
Glasson, William A. 12-Apr-66 G017
Harris, Reuben 12-Apr-66 H023
Jordan, Larry M. 12-Apr-66 J018
Murphy, Terence M. 09-Apr-65 M458
Scott, Dain V. 21-Aug-67 S012
Trembley, Jay F. 21-Aug-67 T016
Winkler, John Anthony 22-Nov-65 W145
Buckley, Jimmy L. 21-Aug-67 B440 Ashes returned 16-Dec-75
Downey, John 29-Nov-52 D602 Released 12-Mar-73
Fectau, Richard 29-Nov-52 F602 Released 12-Dec-71
Flynn, Robert 21-Aug-67 F049 Released 15-Mar-73
Pugh, Kenneth 12-Apr-66 P054 Ashes returned 16-Dec-75
Smith, Philip E. 20-Sep-65 S106 Released 15 Mar-73


http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/china.htm

Sorry, but no. Larger than the UK's? Yes. The French's? No.

Japan- $43,700 million (FY05)
France- $45,238.1 million (2003)
Odd, the CIA factbook ranks Japan higher than France, http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2067rank.html

Japan at $ 45,841,000,000 in 2004
and France at $ 45,238,100,000 in 2003

(Yes, I know your number is FY2005, but that's two year's difference instead of one, but I also cannot find any current data for France that would suggest if the number went up or down... that at of course the number is based upon the exchange rate of yen to dollar so...).

You usually wait untill the plane is in your airspace to screw with it ..you dont go find one outside your airspace and play.

According to your own links, it was picking up communications channels that were "of potential interest to U-S military commanders." which most likely means channels that the Chinese would have viewed as "hands off". True, it is not justification for shooting down a plane, but you can damn well tell it to bugger off and send fighters to escort it out. Especially if it's listening to channels it's not supposed to.

In this case, the closest example is a burglar casing a house where the owner can't shoot him just yet but can make threatening gestures. The intercept was just that. A way of saying "bugger off or I'll shoot". The actual cause of crash itself and culpability remains unknown.


Spyplanes as you call them exist in all nations , they did not exist at the time of the Geneva conventions ..wtf are you talking about anyway ?

A spyplane is an espionage role equipment used by guess what? Espionage role agents. And so far as I know, the Geneva convention says squat about what you can or can't do to those caught for that or their gear. You get it, you can torch it. The owner doesn't get to say anything.


The Chinese pilot was playing chase games ..practicing interception and srewed the fuck up. End of story ..usually ...but the Chinese then compounded the problem by playing " face " games . Or was it deliberate that a US was rammed in internation airspace and forced to land at a Chinese air field ? Want to start a war ?

Face games? No, this was a very big message. It said this in simple words. "Bugger off! Next time this happens, we keep the plane and her crew for good" If you don't like it, don't spy on others then. Simple as that. You case a house with a bag full of burglary specific tools and a cop hauls you away for "suspicious activities", you don't have a right to complain.


http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/docs/man-ipc-ep3_aries-010402.htm
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,59203,00.html


Nothing in the links says who is responsible for the crash. It doesn't even try to excuse what the plane was doing there. It was a spyplane, on an espionage mission. It landed in China, the very place it was trying to case. The Chinese held onto it for some time and more or less told the US "You are not the boss of me"

Really, you try to get info on others and when they get yours, you cry foul? That's really a big hypocrisy. World's not fair. Get used to it.


The US could have been easily justified in shooting down Chinese planes that get anywhere near their aircrat after this...then what ? A little war ?
Games with missles tend to escallate .

Where did a Chinese jet fire a missile at a US military plane? Justification for war? I suppose this is justification for Italy to declare war on the US then?

http://www.cnn.com/US/9903/04/marines.cablecar.03/

Perhaps you would not object to MANPADS on cable car routes to shoot down American aircraft that are flying dangerously low?


Maybe China could be nice and return these people .


Looking at the date of death/MIA, I would say this was during the Korean war. One where America and China were going at it on the battlegrounds of Korea. What of it?

Or maybe US can be nice and return the British (and various other) nationals in Gitmo hmm?