NationStates Jolt Archive

December the 25th is definitely not the date Jesus of Nazareth was born. He was not born during the middle of winter; for the shepherds were keeping watch over their flocks by night (Luke 2:8). In Palestine the shepherds always bring their flocks in by mid-October. Here are three good reasons for the fall of the year to be the approximate time of the year for Jesus' birth all from the BibleV

First; his public ministry would start when he was thirty years old (Nu. 4:3), and last three and one half years. His ministry ended at the time of the Passover (John 18:39) that was in the spring. Then going back three and one half years he would have turned thirty in the fall of that year.

Second; he was born six months after John the Baptist. Finding John's approximate time of birth, and adding six months we have Jesus time of birth. Now John's father Zechariah was a priest at the temple in Jerusalem. Each priest had a definite period of the year in which to serve. There were twenty-four of these courses and according to Josephus each course lasted one week. Each priest served a week twice a year and all had to serve the three weeks of Passover, Pentecost and the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah was serving the course of ABIA (Abijah) when he learned his wife by some divine intervention, would give birth to a son (Luke 1:5-13). According to 1Chronicles 24:10, the course of Abijah was the eight in order. That is Iyar 27 to Sivan 5 to us this would be June 1-8. He was obligated to remain another week for Pentecost. After this time his ministry finished. He returned home and his wife conceived (Luke 1:23-24) this being about the middle of June. If we add nine months, John's birth would be in early spring about march. Add to this the six months the younger Jesus was (Luke 1:29-36), and Jesus' birth would be mid-September, again the fall of the year.

Third, Joseph and Mary had gone to Bethlehem to be taxed (Luke 2:1-5). The fall was a logical time for taxes since it was the end of harvest. Also, when they made the trip it was most likely a time of a great feast at Jerusalem because it was crowded (Luke 2:7). Taxation alone would not draw this large a crowd in Bethlehem. Another point is that the law did not require a woman's presence at a taxing. Considering all of this Mary made the journey with Joseph to attend the Feast of Tabernacles that again is in the fall.

Jesus was NOT born on Christmas. >_<

Jesus was NOT born on Christmas. >_<

:eek: Noooooooooo!!!!! *faints*

They chose Christmas because it coincided with the Roman festival of Saturnalia, and hoped that this would make it easier to convert people by maintaining that link. Mostly, it was religious politicking that motivated the selection of the 25th for Christmas.

They chose Christmas because it coincided with the Roman festival of Saturnalia, and hoped that this would make it easier to convert people by maintaining that link. Mostly, it was religious politicking that motivated the selection of the 25th for Christmas.
I know. This is just one of the evils of Christianity.

I know. This is just one of the evils of Christianity.

I wouldn't call it "evil", just an effective way of adapting to the times.

Easy solution. Make christmas oct 15 and move halloween to dec 25

this is really old news.
The day Christmas is celebrated on isn't as important as the story anyway.

Although if we could get them to move it.... my birthday is on DEC 21 and I have been getting the shaft for years now because everyone wants to get me birthday/Christmas gifts

I know people are short on cash, but I wish they would just give me a birthday gift and nothing for Christmas or the other way around or not get me anything!!!
Quit trying to combine them!!!!! :headbang:

okay rant over.... sorry about that.....

i think you're about a couple hundred years too late pointing this out.

Serapindal, you’re like a little kid, stating well known facts like they're new because you just found out personally.

I wouldn't call it "evil", just an effective way of adapting to the times.
They wanted to convert everyone in the world to Christianty, so thats why they did that. They burned people for following other religions, which is bad, as there is nothing wrong with not being a christian, and also bad because burning is one of, if not, THE most inhumane method of execution. Also, when they explored America, the conquistadors abducted native americans and forced them into concentration camps called "praying towns" where they are forced to be christians. Also, christianity forced Africa into the chaos it is in now. Cristianity is evil.

They wanted to convert everyone in the world to Christianty, so thats why they did that. They burned people for following other religions, which is bad, as there is nothing wrong with not being a christian, and also bad because burning is one of, if not, THE most inhumane method of execution. Also, when they explored America, the conquistadors abducted native americans and forced them into concentration camps called "praying towns" where they are forced to be christians. Also, christianity forced Africa into the chaos it is in now. Cristianity is evil.

So did Islam. All religions are evil if they are perverted from their original intent to one of political power.

Cristianity is evil.


Amen, brother.

They wanted to convert everyone in the world to Christianty, so thats why they did that. They burned people for following other religions, which is bad, as there is nothing wrong with not being a christian, and also bad because burning is one of, if not, THE most inhumane method of execution. Also, when they explored America, the conquistadors abducted native americans and forced them into concentration camps called "praying towns" where they are forced to be christians. Also, christianity forced Africa into the chaos it is in now. Cristianity is evil.

*whispers* He's a god-less commie. You take him from the right, I take him from the left, with my cross.

Does it matter?

*whispers* He's a god-less commie. You take him from the right, I take him from the left, with my cross.
I am not a communist, but am an atheist.

this is really old news.
The day Christmas is celebrated on isn't as important as the story anyway.

Although if we could get them to move it.... my birthday is on DEC 21 and I have been getting the shaft for years now because everyone wants to get me birthday/Christmas gifts

I know people are short on cash, but I wish they would just give me a birthday gift and nothing for Christmas or the other way around or not get me anything!!!
Quit trying to combine them!!!!! :headbang:

okay rant over.... sorry about that.....
there's an easy way to solve that...change religions!
if you do, you won't celebrate christmas anymore, and therefore not get presents for it!
and what's won't a contraction for, anyways?

Jesus was NOT born on Christmas. >_<

Congratulations. The church has known this and stated it for over one and a half thousand years (ever since they adopted an arbitrary date to mark the event). Are we going to have to wait till about the year 3600-something for you to address contemporary religious issues?

They wanted to convert everyone in the world to Christianty, so thats why they did that. They burned people for following other religions, which is bad, as there is nothing wrong with not being a christian, and also bad because burning is one of, if not, THE most inhumane method of execution. Also, when they explored America, the conquistadors abducted native americans and forced them into concentration camps called "praying towns" where they are forced to be christians. Also, christianity forced Africa into the chaos it is in now. Cristianity is evil.
If you’re going to call an ideology evil based on the actions of those that claimed to follow said ideology, at least get it right.
You should have said Catholicism is evil. That would have been far more accurate but still just as bigoted.

there's an easy way to solve that...change religions!
if you do, you won't celebrate christmas anymore, and therefore not get presents for it!
and what's won't a contraction for, anyways?
don't want to. I like my religion just fine. I could just start celebrating my 1/2 birthdays like I did when I was a kid, or get over this whole selfish thing I have going on, either really......


won't = will not

there's an easy way to solve that...change religions!
if you do, you won't celebrate christmas anymore, and therefore not get presents for it!

They don't even need to go the whole hog and change religions: a move to the Orthodox fate would give a date for Christmas sometime in the first half of January and also solve the problem.

If you’re going to call an ideology evil based on the actions of those that claimed to follow said ideology, at least get it right.
You should have said Catholicism is evil. That would have been far more accurate but still just as bigoted.

I don't know, the Protestant track record was as equally sordid as the Catholics. They were all bad, but almost everyone's moved on from those atrocities.

I don't know, the Protestant track record was as equally sordid as the Catholics. They were all bad, but almost everyone's moved on from those atrocities.
I was talking about the things he specifically mentioned. Note that protestants mostly burned other Christians, and eventually, so did Catholics but not right away.

Are we going to have to wait till about the year 3600-something for you to address contemporary religious issues?
Perhaps... after all... most contemporary religious issues are tabooed by the vatican for example.

who gives a rat arse you jahovo jobo manovo witness. it's all mumble jumble

It's quite possible to celebrate Christmas and not be a Christian. There's a few people that I get Christmas presents for every year, not because I am all that enthused by Christmas, but because the people I care about happen to celebrate Christmas and what better way to appreciate someone then by honoring their customs?

December 25th is actually the birth date of the Persian goat-god Mithras. Besides having the same birthday as Christianity's Jesus, Mithras was said to have been born in a manger, among shepards. The custom of giving gifts on December 25 originated in Mithraism also, hundreds of years before the birth of Christ.

Jesus was born on St. Patrick's Day.

Jesus' birth would be mid-September


Cool. So's my birthday. We're both Virgos. :D

Let's face it, the majority of people who celebrate Christmas are not celebrating the birth of Jesus anyway. They are celebrating getting a stack of presents. Heaps of non-christians celebrate christmas, and not only because they are showing respect for the christian religion.

"Now come on people, I think we're missing the whole point of Christmas. You know - the birth of Santa."

Let's face it, the majority of people who celebrate Christmas are not celebrating the birth of Jesus anyway. They are celebrating getting a stack of presents. Heaps of non-christians celebrate christmas, and not only because they are showing respect for the christian religion.True story. I love the holidays, but just because it's a happy time of year. I go around telling people "merry hanukkah!". I'm not religious, and from a Catholic family.


"Now come on people, I think we're missing the whole point of Christmas. You know - the birth of Santa."Now that's something worth celebrating.

<snip>
whoopdeedoo

almost everything in christianity was taken from something else....and they used positive "pagan" symbols to represent evil...like the horned fertility god...they gave him a pitchfork and called him satan.....

so whatever...christianity did what it wanted to do.....it did, and still basically is, taking over the world...you cant go ANYWHERE without seeing something with "christian" symbolism....

hell its on our currency!

<snip>
hell its on our currency!
not mine. I make my own! :p

Sounds like the originator of the thread is plagerizing some book. Whoever wote it had his/her theory about the time of year. Others would argue for the spring as the shepherds were in the field at night. During the fall and winter the sheep were brought to the pen at night. The sheep were left in the field during the spring when they were having lambs. The lambs would be trampled if born in a pen. And wouldn't it be apropriate for the "lamb of God" to be born at the same time as the lambs of the field.

Actually, there is no way to tell when Jesus was born. Lk 3:23 says he was "about 30" when he started his ministry. Actually birthdays were not celebrated in the culture so no one knew exactly how old they were. They kept track by important events that were happening, ie, the year we were taxed or a certain king was in power. Notice the year was not recorded and it couldn't have been "1 AD" because the king was dead before then. Probably "4 BC" would be closer.

Anyhow, The bible does NOT say to celebrate birth. The original Christians were Jews and continued to celebrate Jewish holidays. Using them to show how they were a prediction of Jesus.

If you want to make a fundamentalist blood pressure rise, look into the fact that Jesus wasn't killed on Friday. Jesus was killed on Wednesday. If you read closely, (John 19:31) you will notice that it wasn't the weekly sabbath (Saturday) but a special "high day". During the Passover week there are actually three holidays (sabbaths) and a weekly sabbath. Notice that the women purchased and prepared the spices. When did they do that between Friday and Sunday morning? Certainly NOT on Saturday. The better timeline is He was killed on Wednesday, buried Wednesday at sundown, Thursday was a special Sabbath, Friday the women bought and prepared spices (taking the whole day), Saturday was the weekly sabbath, Jesus rose around sundown Saturday (three days and three nights), when the women arrived Sunday morning the guards were gone and so was Jesus.

The problem came when Gentiles did not understand Jewish holidays and they thought all sabbaths were on Saturday. Jesus said the only proof he would offer was that he would be in the grave three days and three nights. That can't be done from Friday sundown to Sunday sunrise. So if the normal timeline was true he was not the one.

December 25th is actually the birth date of the Persian goat-god Mithras.

yeah, he was the god of light, and he was so popular, especially with Roman soldiers that Jesus' birth day was moved there. and the days of jesus' death and resurrection are wrong too.

Everyone knows that December 25 is Santa's birthday.

alrighty, I am to lazy to quote a guy so I would just point out that people have done research on this and with the lights and stars and crap thy figured

a.Jesus was not born untill 3 or 7 a.d. {not exactly sure but it was one of the twon numbers}
b. born mid april-ish because of the stars with the planets inretro-grade or whatever it's called, long story short: wisemen from babylon, astrology from babylon, in religous part of astrology when a planet is in a constelation it means a very important figure, Aries{the sign of kings} was in at that time and saturn + jupitor in aries so a super king typre person being born, and thats pretty much it ;)

Jesus? Whos Jesus?

Jesus? Whos Jesus?
Oh, just some guy that got nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be if people were nice to each other for a change. ;)

What do you mean Jesus wasn't born on December 25th? OFC HE WAS! That's why Santa gives us all presents, because Jesus not only died for our sins but he sorts us out presents on his birthday. The motherfucker still owes me $10 though...

What do you mean Jesus wasn't born on December 25th? OFC HE WAS! That's why Santa gives us all presents, because Jesus not only died for our sins but he sorts us out presents on his birthday. The motherfucker still owes me $10 though...
Hobbits give presents to others on their birthdays as well. Should we not then pray to them?

Hobbits give presents to others on their birthdays as well. Should we not then pray to them?


Agreed.

Jesus was born on St. Patrick's Day.

No he wasn't - but I was :)

December the 25th is definitely not the date Jesus of Nazareth was born.

Who cares? :)

Christophorus I.
Patriarch of the Most Holy Episcopal Presbyterian Baptist-Methodist Pentecostal Catholic and Apostolic Lutheran Orthodox Church of Tungoosia. ;)

Everyone knows that December 25 is Santa's birthday.

Santa Claus was born on 25th December.
Shane Macgowan was born on 25th December.
Ergo, Shane Macgowan is Santa Claus.

Fact.

Who cares?
Jesus is NOT, repeat NOT a real person. There is NO evidence whatsoever of his existence. He NEVER existed, you losers!

Who cares?
Jesus is NOT, repeat NOT a real person. There is NO evidence whatsoever of his existence. He NEVER existed, you losers!


Don't worry, Jesus does

Still want to make

Love to

You from behind.


Got it?

That is not the point. The point is not whether jesus or not, only a fool would waste their time arguing such. Jesus, either in a literal or symbolic form, is a philosophier, his rules explain what is wrong with man. He teaches wisdom and symbolic lessons to provide information and wisdom to others. Can't you see, this is where society is failing today, too much knowledge through ignorant methods but lack of wisdom. Jesus' teachings show the symbol of modern man.

Imagine if Jesus was born on the 29th of February, we'd only get Christmas presents once every four years! :eek:

Who cares?
Jesus is NOT, repeat NOT a real person. There is NO evidence whatsoever of his existence. He NEVER existed, you losers!

Actually, there's plenty of proof that says he exsisted. I mean, the guy paid tax and belonged to two churches. If you, for some reason, believe that someone back in 20 A.D. forged these documents... I feel for you, I really do.

You know, some people are athiests because they truely belive in the lack of a supream being. Some are just athiests because it looks cool. Please, examine your beliefs before you scream them from a mountain top... Actually, this goes for those who believe in God too, since I've noticed the same thing there.

And last but not least, stop trying to convert everyone. Religion is a deeply personal thing, so shut up!

Actually, there's plenty of proof that says he exsisted. I mean, the guy paid tax and belonged to two churches. If you, for some reason, believe that someone back in 20 A.D. forged these documents... I feel for you, I really do.

You know, some people are athiests because they truely belive in the lack of a supream being. Some are just athiests because it looks cool. Please, examine your beliefs before you scream them from a mountain top... Actually, this goes for those who believe in God too, since I've noticed the same thing there.

However, lets not blur the issues between any possible documentation which provides evidence for Jesus as historical figure and any which provides evidence for him as a religious/divine one.

However, lets not blur the issues between any possible documentation which provides evidence for Jesus as historical figure and any which provides evidence for him as a religious/divine one.

I was simply proving that the man exsisted. The evidence of the God in him having exsisted can only be found in your own heart, and if it's not there, then it's not there. There's nothing I can do to prove that.

Santa Claus was born on 25th December.
Shane Macgowan was born on 25th December.
Ergo, Shane Macgowan is Santa Claus.

Fact.
I was born on 30th May.
Steven Gerrard was born on 30th May.
Ergo, I'm a great football player.

Fact.
:p

December the 25th is definitely not the date Jesus of Nazareth was born. He was not born during the middle of winter; for the shepherds were keeping watch over their flocks by night (Luke 2:8). In Palestine the shepherds always bring their flocks in by mid-October. Here are three good reasons for the fall of the year to be the approximate time of the year for Jesus' birth all from the BibleV

First; his public ministry would start when he was thirty years old (Nu. 4:3), and last three and one half years. His ministry ended at the time of the Passover (John 18:39) that was in the spring. Then going back three and one half years he would have turned thirty in the fall of that year.

Second; he was born six months after John the Baptist. Finding John's approximate time of birth, and adding six months we have Jesus time of birth. Now John's father Zechariah was a priest at the temple in Jerusalem. Each priest had a definite period of the year in which to serve. There were twenty-four of these courses and according to Josephus each course lasted one week. Each priest served a week twice a year and all had to serve the three weeks of Passover, Pentecost and the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah was serving the course of ABIA (Abijah) when he learned his wife by some divine intervention, would give birth to a son (Luke 1:5-13). According to 1Chronicles 24:10, the course of Abijah was the eight in order. That is Iyar 27 to Sivan 5 to us this would be June 1-8. He was obligated to remain another week for Pentecost. After this time his ministry finished. He returned home and his wife conceived (Luke 1:23-24) this being about the middle of June. If we add nine months, John's birth would be in early spring about march. Add to this the six months the younger Jesus was (Luke 1:29-36), and Jesus' birth would be mid-September, again the fall of the year.

Third, Joseph and Mary had gone to Bethlehem to be taxed (Luke 2:1-5). The fall was a logical time for taxes since it was the end of harvest. Also, when they made the trip it was most likely a time of a great feast at Jerusalem because it was crowded (Luke 2:7). Taxation alone would not draw this large a crowd in Bethlehem. Another point is that the law did not require a woman's presence at a taxing. Considering all of this Mary made the journey with Joseph to attend the Feast of Tabernacles that again is in the fall.




Jesus was NOT born on Christmas. >_<

:eek: You only figured this out now????? Well better late then never. As prob mentioned before a break was needed inthe depts of winter and the chruch needed a date and something to do......Christmas

Serapindal, you’re like a little kid, stating well known facts like they're new because you just found out personally.
I call these facts Ruebens, they're things in the general knowledge but are treated like special knowledge. (getting it's name from Pee Wee Herman's real name.)

Who cares when Jesus was born?

Christianity is evil.
No, you mean, some Christians are evil. Not all of them are conquistadores, crusaders or fundamentalists.

Who cares?
Jesus is NOT, repeat NOT a real person. There is NO evidence whatsoever of his existence. He NEVER existed, you losers!
There is evidence of Jeus as a historical figure. The only question is whether he was the son of God, which I don't think he was.

No, you mean, some Christians are evil. Not all of them are conquistadores, crusaders or fundamentalists.



I asked this same question in another thred but they didn't answer....

why are fundamentalists evil or bad?

it seems to be a theme around here but nobody answers me....:(

I am not going to argue the point or anything I just want to know why I am evil in others eyes.

I asked this same question in another thred but they didn't answer....

why are fundamentalists evil or bad?

it seems to be a theme around here but nobody answers me....:(

I am not going to argue the point or anything I just want to know why I am evil in others eyes.


Fundies like to touch little boys.

Fundies like to touch little boys.
gross. we do not!!! :mad:

December the 25th is definitely not the date Jesus of Nazareth was born. He was not born during the middle of winter; for the shepherds were keeping watch over their flocks by night (Luke 2:8). In Palestine the shepherds always bring their flocks in by mid-October. Here are three good reasons for the fall of the year to be the approximate time of the year for Jesus' birth all from the BibleV

First; his public ministry would start when he was thirty years old (Nu. 4:3), and last three and one half years. His ministry ended at the time of the Passover (John 18:39) that was in the spring. Then going back three and one half years he would have turned thirty in the fall of that year.

Second; he was born six months after John the Baptist. Finding John's approximate time of birth, and adding six months we have Jesus time of birth. Now John's father Zechariah was a priest at the temple in Jerusalem. Each priest had a definite period of the year in which to serve. There were twenty-four of these courses and according to Josephus each course lasted one week. Each priest served a week twice a year and all had to serve the three weeks of Passover, Pentecost and the Feast of Tabernacles. Zechariah was serving the course of ABIA (Abijah) when he learned his wife by some divine intervention, would give birth to a son (Luke 1:5-13). According to 1Chronicles 24:10, the course of Abijah was the eight in order. That is Iyar 27 to Sivan 5 to us this would be June 1-8. He was obligated to remain another week for Pentecost. After this time his ministry finished. He returned home and his wife conceived (Luke 1:23-24) this being about the middle of June. If we add nine months, John's birth would be in early spring about march. Add to this the six months the younger Jesus was (Luke 1:29-36), and Jesus' birth would be mid-September, again the fall of the year.

Third, Joseph and Mary had gone to Bethlehem to be taxed (Luke 2:1-5). The fall was a logical time for taxes since it was the end of harvest. Also, when they made the trip it was most likely a time of a great feast at Jerusalem because it was crowded (Luke 2:7). Taxation alone would not draw this large a crowd in Bethlehem. Another point is that the law did not require a woman's presence at a taxing. Considering all of this Mary made the journey with Joseph to attend the Feast of Tabernacles that again is in the fall.

Jesus was NOT born on Christmas. >_<

I commend you for your scholory research. Well done. I just wish to point out my own views. Most scholars see Christ as having been born in the Spring. I don't know of any that say He was born in winter. There is a teaching in my church, that Christ was actually born on 6 April, according to revelation. I've never heard of fall, but your reasoning is sound.

Out of curiosity, the Jewish calander-how well does it coincide with the solar year-I don't really know.

since the leader of the christian heritage party Graeme Capill did it, I have to assume that they all did it.

They wanted to convert everyone in the world to Christianty, so thats why they did that. They burned people for following other religions, which is bad, as there is nothing wrong with not being a christian, and also bad because burning is one of, if not, THE most inhumane method of execution. Also, when they explored America, the conquistadors abducted native americans and forced them into concentration camps called "praying towns" where they are forced to be christians. Also, christianity forced Africa into the chaos it is in now. Cristianity is evil.

Christianity is not evil. The zealots who try to force it on others, instead of letting them make their own decisions are wrong. (I don't like to use evil-that's for God to decide). I agree that people have done horrible things in the name of Christianity, but that does not mean they were truly representing Christ-He told His people to respect others-teach them the Truth, but respect them.

Jesus did not exist, so there is no birthdate at all.
All these dates are pagan feasts, christianity took them over so that people couldnt celebrate the original celebrations anymore.

If you’re going to call an ideology evil based on the actions of those that claimed to follow said ideology, at least get it right.
You should have said Catholicism is evil. That would have been far more accurate but still just as bigoted.
My point is that all types of christians have been doing evil thigs because the Bible says you go to hell for not being a christian. And what about the crusades?? They are even more proof that Christianity is eil. Also, catholicism is the most evil of all the sects, they were the ones who burned muslims, jews, an atheists.

Quote... " Cristianity is evil "

Get it straight.
PEOPLE are evil. Christianity is an idea and a religion. One which, if followed in it's true intent, would avoid all such suffering.

It's remarkably sad that people can twist an idea such as universal love for all into burning witches and torturing people to change thier religion.. in order to " save thier souls". Go figure.... people are for shit.

Miserable bastards... I'd be willing to say that churches are ripe breeding grounds for evil. If you really think you're inspired by god and can do no wrong, you're setting yourself up to be more wrong than you ever thought of.
But don't blame the book if people don't read it properly.

".... and what do burn apart from witches??"
".... MORE witches!!.."

Jesus did not exist, so there is no birthdate at all.
All these dates are pagan feasts, christianity took them over so that people couldnt celebrate the original celebrations anymore.

I am really curious as to why you think Jesus didn't exist. There are so many historical documents that prove the existence of a person that went by the name of Jesus, lived approx. between 0CE and 33CE, was recognized as a great religioius leader, etc. The jewish faith even sees Him as a great teacher-just not the Messiah. Jesus existed, no questions asked. Wether or not you believe He is the Son of God is another thing entirely.

As to your opinion on the Christian holidays being put over pagan holidays-you are right. Those dates were chosen for two reasons-history fails to show which one was more predominate, but those two reasons were to stamp out the pagan holiday, and to give the pagans a link to Christianity. Early Christains taught that the Romans believed in Christ, just as Hercules-the son of a God, mortal, and a person who tried to save mankind.

No, you mean, some Christians are evil. Not all of them are conquistadores, crusaders or fundamentalists.
If cristianity made some poeple so evil, then Christianity is evil as well.

If cristianity made some poeple so evil, then Christianity is evil as well.

Christianity made no evil people. People can choose, that is God's great gift-our agency to choose what we want. He doesn't force us to choose Him. Some people take things the wrong way, and don't understand the teachings of the bible. Just because they fail to understand something and turn out evil, doesn't mean that the something they are trying to understand is evil. Christianity is not evil, and does not turn out evil people. Some people are bad, and claim that they are Christians, but aren't real Christians.

Christianity made no evil people. People can choose, that is God's great gift-our agency to choose what we want. He doesn't force us to choose Him. Some people take things the wrong way, and don't understand the teachings of the bible. Just because they fail to understand something and turn out evil, doesn't mean that the something they are trying to understand is evil. Christianity is not evil, and does not turn out evil people. Some people are bad, and claim that they are Christians, but aren't real Christians.
what about the crusaders and conquistadors??

I am really curious as to why you think Jesus didn't exist. There are so many historical documents that prove the existence of a person that went by the name of Jesus, lived approx. between 0CE and 33CE, was recognized as a great religioius leader, etc.

Name one.

Fundies like to touch little boys.



No, that's Catholic priests. Fundies want to force their beliefs on the rest of the US. They get elected to office by claiming candidates who run against them are atheists with no morals, even if their actually deeply religious and moral people.

this is really old news.
The day Christmas is celebrated on isn't as important as the story anyway.

Although if we could get them to move it.... my birthday is on DEC 21 and I have been getting the shaft for years now because everyone wants to get me birthday/Christmas gifts

I know people are short on cash, but I wish they would just give me a birthday gift and nothing for Christmas or the other way around or not get me anything!!!
Quit trying to combine them!!!!! :headbang:

okay rant over.... sorry about that.....

Wow, wish I'd ahve known -- I could have gotten out of getting my brother twice-as-expensive gifts by just not giving him anything!

Maybe I should do that for him and my sister in law (Dec 18 and 21)
Oh, and my fiance! (Dec 2)

Because we all know it's just you personally that this affects and no one else.

;)

Oh, just some guy that got nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be if people were nice to each other for a change. ;)
I miss Douglas Adams.

Fundies like to touch little boys.

KNOCK IT OFF.

This thread has turned into a troll/bait-fest and I'm locking it. If you want to have a discussion about Christianity, create a different thread.