NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: When all my children were relatively young, I managed to scarpe together enough money to take the family to Disney World. We couldn't afford the hotel rates either at or near Disney World, so we stayed at a campground. We had a blast! I didint mind taking my children anywhere I could afford taking them, but I think the following is ridiculous in the extreme! I never viewed "keeping the children entertained" as one of my responsiblities. That was their job as children. Your thoughts?


Are 15 Decks Enough Entertainment
for a 13-Year-Old? (http://travel2.nytimes.com/2005/10/02/travel/02teen.html?th&emc=th)


By COLIN HARRISON
Published: October 2, 2005

THE day was late, the three children insistent, the parents grumpy. Another winter break from school loomed, and my wife and I were fed up with family vacations. They were so tiring. Just getting to the "vacations" had become exhausting. Trolling the Internet, however, my wife discovered an ocean cruise that left from New York City.

"All we do is take a taxi to the docks on the West Side?" I asked.

"It's not cheap," my wife said.

I was already dialing.

Minutes later, the cruise ship company was pleased to accept a sum of money that to this day I prefer not to recall.

The key element of our debilitated search for comfort was that our older daughter, 13, was getting harder to please. Teenage daughters need content in their vacations: iPods, movies, makeup, shopping opportunities - and other teenagers. They view their parents as the never-cool undead, released from the crypt of the 70's, scary only when they don't dispense cash.

Providing even a slender percentage of what teenagers demand is - well, work. Yet we knew that our daughter would make our vacation a weeklong agony if at least some of her demands were not met, not to mention those of her brother, 11, and sister, 5.

Yes, going for a cruise is arguably indulgent, and parents need to limit the excesses of American consumerism they model for their children: but please understand, we were tired and pale and desperate.

We arrived at the West Side docks and indeed, there was the ship, the Norwegian Dawn, magnificent and spotless, all 965 feet of it, 15 decks, 10 dining rooms, 92,250 tons, a floating extravaganza with streamers and confetti painted on the sides. Within a few minutes, it was clear that not a few other families had done exactly as we had: frumpy parents sheepishly eyed each other, their teenagers already forming whispering packs, punching in each other's cellphone numbers, creating instant secret societies impermeable to adult scrutiny.

Our daughter already had "friends" with whom she exchanged room numbers. Packs of animated teenage boys surveyed the ship. It didn't take much of an imaginative leap to arrive at their point of view: girls plus a big ship equals excitement.

Once the porters had shown us to our staterooms, we sat down with our daughter and explained two rules. We understood she'd want to run around the ship (run amok I almost said), but she was not to go in anyone else's room, and she was not to go out on deck at night. These rules, we hoped, would protect her from in-room drinking and on-deck smoking and all the attendant behaviors that parents dread. My worst fear was that goofing around she might fall into the vast, cold Atlantic, making it impossible, I told her, for us to even reclaim her body. She said she understood the rules and agreed to abide by them. Did she? I guess so.

As we sailed out of New York Harbor and I watched the skyline shrink, below deck, my older children were already mastering the complicated layout of the ship. They scoped out the movie theater, the two pools, the eating spots, the casino they were prohibited from entering, the video game room that ate pounds of quarters, the instantly crowded Jacuzzi, the Internet lounge.

A pattern soon emerged: No matter how often we admonished them not to lose their electronic room keys, they did so constantly, usually within minutes of leaving the instant hellholes of dirty laundry that had so recently been their tidy bunks. Each evening, our older daughter changed outfits several times before meeting her friends at some prearranged destination, which certainly was never the "teen club/disco" provided by the cruise ship (I know because I once looked for her there). My anxieties were eased only by the telltale click of her stateroom door beside ours, and the obligatory call - "I'm back."

At sea, the ship became a blizzard of entertainment: movies, magic acts, juggling, cheesy Broadway reviews (somehow more pleasurable for their cheesiness) and comedians, most notably Jimmie Walker, he of the wide grin and the expression "Dyn-o-mite!" on the old TV show "Good Times."

My kids had no idea who he was. But they were entertained, happy!

Our son discovered the basketball court atop the ship. Dribbling a ball on a court moving in three dimensions proved irresistible. The ship's boys, ranging from about 8 to 18, recapitulated the unspoken rules of playground ball, and my son happily joined in. On several nights he and I sneaked up to the lighted court and played a lazy game of one-on-one, the black ocean all around. And the kids liked the food. Who wouldn't? It was endless in variety and supply, and ranged from perfectly good to excellent. I myself usually ate two or three breakfasts a day. Our daughter actually tasted things like lobster and ham. But the best thing about these meals, the truly delicious element, my wife thought, was that they were cooked by someone else.

Cruise ships typically make four or five port calls in a week, and we stopped at Port Canaveral (to visit Orlando and Universal Studios), Miami, Nassau and one of the various private islands that many cruise companies use in the Caribbean. The resulting excursions were notable for the high ratio of dollars paid per minute of entertainment, and I can report that Universal Studios, as crowded as it was, proved no more soulless and debilitating than I'd anticipated.

At Nassau, my wife was advised by another mother with children in tow that since the swim-with-the-porpoises trip was filled up, the smart move was to taxi to one of the island's swankiest hotels, walk in as though we were actual paying guests, and then proceed directly to the bazillion-dollar beach. I generally frown on obvious fraud committed in front of one's children, but capitulated to this plan out of my fear that the kids would soon complain that they had been detached from the mother ship ("for nothing good!" would be the cry).

Soon we could be seen on the bazillion-dollar beach dragging beach chairs to a prime location under the gimlet eye of the attendant in his hotel uniform. To signal friendliness and good will, I allowed a beach vendor of shell necklaces to approach us and exchange three such near-worthless trinkets for a surprising amount of money.

I presented these necklaces to the three females in our family, and each was keenly evaluated for its beauty potential. An hour later, my older daughter announced she wanted some lunch, and we rose to retrace our route to Nassau's docks. Making sure that we had not forgotten anything, I checked the sand around our chairs and discovered our teenager had left her shell necklace behind. In the taxi, I handed the necklace to her with what I hoped was an expression of large-hearted humor. "Thanks, Dad," came her response. That was the last time I ever saw this item.

The Nassau port has the usual assortment of tourist shops, duty-free stores, jewelers and restaurants. Not far from where our massive cruise ship was tethered, we identified what appeared to be a humble lunch joint. Our meal, which consisted of burgers and swillish soup, ran something on the order of $120, and I confess that by the time I climbed the gangplank and presented our ship ID's to the ever-pleasant security staff, my mood had drifted foul.

But at least there was the prospect of drinks around the pool as the ship eased out of the harbor. This was the moment that my wife confessed that in all the excitement of hotel breaking-and-entering, shell-necklace retrieval and lunch ordering, she had somehow, somewhere, lost her wallet, stuffed, of course, with credit cards and cash.

Ah, but all good things. ... We returned to New York, not much worse for the wear. No one fell off the ship. Only several dozen items of little value had been purchased. The parents had survived. The children, most important, had been entertained.

Pssh. Wussies.

When I was 11, I paid for my PARENT'S CRUISE. >_< Not the other way around.

If a kid needs that much to keep them stimulated they have ADD or overindulgent parents. Of which I'd say the latter is worse.

Spoiled brats are a dime a dozen, really. This is nothing that I haven't seen and/or heard of before.

I'm very happy to say that I was never of that number.

So his daughter wouldn't wear a shell necklace. BFD. As for it being impossible to please a teenager, why is this a surprise?

If a kid needs that much to keep them stimulated they have ADD or overindulgent parents. Of which I'd say the latter is worse.
I agree. I suspect this father of making the classic parental error of substituting dollars for time. :(

The party of a young lifetime
While there are more important rites of passage, a Sweet 16 gala is more than a milestone for many girls -- it's a must

BY LAUREN-ALICE LAMANNA / The News Journal
06/27/2005

Elyse Jones' basement is an explosion of pink.

Rose-hued streamers, shimmery Mylar balloons and elaborate cardboard set designs dot the room. A 1950s-style soda counter, holding up a mini-jukebox blaring "Sixteen Candles," faces a New York street scene, complete with a mock-up of a Nordstrom department store display window. Life-size cardboard standups affixed with pictures of Elyse mingle among umbrella-shaded tables piled with glittery table settings and goody bags packed with Victoria's Secret lotions, perfumes and lip gloss.

The Archmere Academy junior celebrated her Sweet 16 on June 4 (her actual birthday was Jan. 30, but she wanted to wait until summer to usher in her 16th) and her mother, Mary Lyn, spent weeks perfecting the décor for her daughter's festivities. Everything Elyse loves was incorporated into the theme, said Mary Lyn: Shopping, the 1950s, Hollywood, and, of course, the color pink.

"It's just overwhelming," Elyse, of West Chester, Pa., said. "It's way more than I was expecting."

As the 16 party guests -- all Archmere juniors who have celebrated or will have Sweet 16 parties -- arrived, trooping down the stairs to the basement, the reaction was instantaneous. Jaws dropped, hands flew to mouths, and a din quickly rose.

"So much time went into this, it's insane," said Sophia Tarabicos, glancing around at what she called the "incredibly detailed" décor.

Molly Healy marveled, "I don't even feel like I'm in a house -- I feel like I'm on a cruise."

"This is the best party so far," declared Celeste Claudy within five minutes of her arrival.

Despite the grand setting, Elyse's party preserved the elements of a typical high school sleepover. The girls spent the night chowing down on s'mores, milkshakes and pizza, and playing games Elyse concocted, like "Pin the Nose on Michael Jackson" and the celebrity chatter-themed "Gossip Column."

And the painstakingly elaborate basement décor wasn't all. The next morning, the girls piled into a luxuriously outfitted limo bus for a day of shopping in New York City. The approximate price tag? $2,500.

According to Elyse's mother Mary Lyn, it was all worth it.

"There's just something nostalgic about Sweet 16 parties," she says.

An age of transformation

Marking a 16th birthday has long been a ritual in American society. Songs (the range stretches from the Crests' 1950s-era hit "16 Candles" to No Doubt's 1995 album track "Sixteen") and films (Molly Ringwald's 1984 flick "Sixteen Candles" is the classic example) have captured the joy, trepidation and angst associated with reaching that age.

Lately the occasion has taken on a heightened importance for today's teens. MTV documents the new wave of rite-of-passage celebrations in a reality series, "My Super Sweet 16." The camera has followed subjects such as the well-heeled offspring of two music industry execs who tried (in vain) to book the Red Hot Chili Peppers as their party's musical entertainment, as well as the pampered daughter of rapper Cee-Lo, who arrived at her party via helicopter.

While this MTV-style Sweet 16 party trend has not exactly translated to the First State on quite the same scale, this rite of passage has not been overlooked in Delaware and its neighboring states.

"It's either one extreme to the other, either nothing at all or one that's really elaborate," says Newark resident Linda Brown, who threw a surprise Sweet 16 for daughter Amanda earlier this month.

Elyse Jones says she and her friends watch the show, and found the show has had "a little" bit of an effect on her."

Sweet 16 parties, Elyse says, are "kind of expected. Everybody has something."

For parents, a labor of love

So what is it that drives teens to spend months of their time -- and their parents to spend endless amounts of cash -- to mark a birthday that doesn't even bring with it the ability to bear arms or vote a president into office?

To hear local parents and their children talk, the process is arduous. Planning the details is exhausting, the hours spent plotting out the logistics are too many to count, and the cost quickly mounts. Nina Figueroa of Bear admitted that after her Sweet 16 was over, she felt like there was "a burden off my shoulders." Mary Lyn Jones spent eight-hour days preparing in the two weeks prior to her daughter's party. Single-mother Brown had to do most of her daughter's surprise-party planning at her full-time job.

Why, then, if the event is so stressful, is there so much emphasis placed on having a blowout bash?

Some feel perhaps it's just a sign of the times.

"I think kids grow up much earlier now," says Marian Healy, mother of Jones party attendee Molly. "Sixteen now is what 18 was for us."

Ruby Hitman, a 67-year-old Elkton, Md., grandmother who sent grandson Joshua on a cruise to the Bahamas for his 16th, says it seems to her as if children now reach adulthood at 16.

"It just seems like they're getting a little more grown-up, doing things they couldn't do at 14 or 15," Hitman says. "You have to be 18 for so many things, so it's not exactly true, but it seems like it."

Christine McCauley Ohannessian, assistant professor of adolescent development at the University of Delaware, agrees.

"We may actually be searching for ways to more clearly mark the transition to maturity," she says. "Researchers studying adolescence have subdivided the stage into early, middle, and late. Sweet 16 parties would coincide with the transition to late adolescence."

Ohannessian also theorizes that Sweet 16 parties may be a result of more subversive factors. She says increased materialism in adolescents and their parents is a likely influence on the size and scale of the Sweet 16.

"Many parents seem to be attempting to make up for decreases in the amount of time that they spend with their children with increases in the money spent on materialistic items and events," she says.

Mary Lyn Jones has a different take. "Birthdays are so important to kids," she says. "You're investing time in your kids by saying you'll take two weeks out of your life to create something for them that no one else will have."

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050627/LIFE/506270320/1005
---

The sad thing is, I know two of the people quoted in this article.

I still think it's an obscene waste of money.

Spoiled brats are a dime a dozen, really. This is nothing that I haven't seen and/or heard of before.

I'm very happy to say that I was never of that number.
You're probably right. You just got cynical instead of spoiled. :)

Who hasn't tried ham before the age of 13? Ham isn't an exotic food! I've been eating it since before I can remember!

A spoiled brat? No.

A spoiled girl? Yes.

It sounds to me like the parents over-estimate(or exaggerate) the girls wants. Few times was it that they showed her saying things complaining, etc.

She seemed to be happy, most of the time, hanging out with people she met on the boat. She didn't utilise most of the floors of that ship.

It seems everything, for the most part, was bought for the daughter, without even asking her.

So again, a spoiled brat? Where is she a brat? Spoiled doesn't mean brat.

thats crazy......iam 16 and i dont have an ipod cell phone and other such things and i spent a little over $200 on my 16th birthday party, and it was my own money anyway......i dont understand why kids my age need all that stuff to stay entertained

I loved my Birthday Party.

I ordered two pizzas, and played Video Games with my friends. :D

Total Cost: $15-20

While there are more important rites of passage, a Sweet 16 gala is more than a milestone for many girls -- it's a must

The approximate price tag? $2,500.

"Many parents seem to be attempting to make up for decreases in the amount of time that they spend with their children with increases in the money spent on materialistic items and events," she says.

I still think it's an obscene waste of money.
Holy Mary, Mother of God! I spent money on my children, but $2,500 would have been enough to pay for us for TWO trips to Disney World ... and we had FIVE children! No wonder so many people are spoiled, if this is the sort of thing they come to expect! Groan. :(

thats crazy......iam 16 and i dont have an ipod cell phone and other such things and i spent a little over $200 on my 16th birthday party, and it was my own money anyway......i dont understand why kids my age need all that stuff to stay entertained
They don't. At all. Ever! It's an attempt by the parents to assuage their guilt at not having spent the time they knew they should have spent with their child, IMHO.

When I was 11, I paid for my PARENT'S CRUISE. >_< Not the other way around.
Here [ hands you the phone ] there are five grown children I want you to talk to! :D

They don't. At all. Ever! It's an attempt by the parents to assuage their guilt at not having spent the time they knew they should have spent with their child, IMHO.

I would much rather have thousands of dollars than time with my parents.

I would much rather have thousands of dollars than time with my parents.
Wait until they die. Then tell me this.

Who hasn't tried ham before the age of 13?

Er, Jewish people who keep kosher, perhaps?

You're probably right. You just got cynical instead of spoiled. :)

That, and very, very bitter and pissed off.

When I was a kid, my grandparents - on the english side because we lived there then - used to take me and my brother camping in Northumberland every year. (Specifically Pauperhaugh, or thereabouts.)

Anyway, Gramps was an ex-paratroop, and Granny a dour scot. But despite that, those were some of the most fun times in my life. One summer is rained and rained all week and we had to dig a trench around the tent to keep the water out. I thought that was great! So did my brother. Then there was the time that Granny got some live chickens from a farmer, and taught my brother and me how to kill, pluck and dress them, before making camp stew. Also great.

And we always had horses to ride, because the local farmers had hunters they needed to exercise. Plus there was just the general fun of being out in the country. You know, going to see the animals, country fairs in early august, shooting rabbits (though those days have gone), driving to the coast for a day at the beach - though Northumberland beaches are a little more rough and ready than carribean ones. (Which reminds me of the time I spent picking mussels at loch fine).

I suspect I would have been very bored on that cruise. My point is though, both my brother and I always look back at those times and feel "spoiled". So I don't think you can call todays kids spoiled: I think they are more ungrateful, if anything. And todays parents maybe should take a leaf from the grandparents, and actually spend some time with their kids. /sermon.

Er, Jewish people who keep kosher, perhaps?

Good point. But seeing as the girl did eat ham eventually, I think she probably wasn't Jewish.

I would much rather have thousands of dollars than time with my parents.

Yah, you do know that the army is going to knock that kind of crap out of you, don't you?

So his daughter wouldn't wear a shell necklace. BFD. As for it being impossible to please a teenager, why is this a surprise? I'm quite pleased right now. Recording cover of Puritania an' all.

Grrr spoil'd brats. I do what my parents ask of me and don't moan much. Why can't they do the same?

Soon we could be seen on the bazillion-dollar beach dragging beach chairs to a prime location under the gimlet eye of the attendant in his hotel uniform. To signal friendliness and good will, I allowed a beach vendor of shell necklaces to approach us and exchange three such near-worthless trinkets for a surprising amount of money.

To signal friendliness and goodwill? Did he think he was communicating with a monkey? This guy sounds arrogant as hell. What he doesn't realize is that he was the one being played in that situation.

To signal friendliness and goodwill? Did he think he was communicating with a monkey? This guy sounds arrogant as hell. What he doesn't realize is that he was the one being played in that situation.
Don't worry, he's an American. They're masters at international relations.

Wait until they die. Then tell me this.

I can't tell you that. Most likely, you will be long dead before them. Though I still would rather have the money. I'm a very shallow person.

I can't tell you that. Most likely, you will be long dead before them. Though I still would rather have the money. I'm a very shallow person.
At least you're willing to admit it.

I can't tell you that. Most likely, you will be long dead before them. Though I still would rather have the money. I'm a very shallow person.
Good to know. Now go away and don't come back.

Yah, you do know that the army is going to knock that kind of crap out of you, don't you?

I don't really believe that.

Though I'm probably getting out of it anyways, so the point is moot.

Good to know. Now go away and don't come back.

Ohh, ok. Well, if someone as prestigeous as you thinks I should leave, I suppose I will.

(A subtle way of telling you to monkey off)

At least you're willing to admit it.

I wear it like a badge of pride.

I don't really believe that.

Though I'm probably getting out of it anyways, so the point is moot.

It's probably a good thing that you realize that now. Incidently, have you told your parents how you feel about them?

It's probably a good thing that you realize that now. Incidently, have you told your parents how you feel about them?

How I feel about them? How exactly do you think I feel about them? I love them.

Wanting to spend time with them? They know that, for the most part, I don't like doing stuff with them. I like going to get something to eat with them, or stuff like that, but we have few interests together(except drugs, but we don't talk about those, or do those together).

How I feel about them? How exactly do you think I feel about them? I love them.

Wanting to spend time with them? They know that, for the most part, I don't like doing stuff with them. I like going to get something to eat with them, or stuff like that, but we have few interests together(except drugs, but we don't talk about those, or do those together).

Well you didn't exactly come off that way, but now you have explained it, I suppose it makes sense. Hmm, I guess I misinterpreted what you were saying.

I always found a way to entertain myself.

That was part of the problem. :D

I always found a way to entertain myself.

That was part of the problem. :D

Yet a constant source of joy for the innocent bystander.

Carry on!!!

My parents still haven't paid me back for that cruise...

I went with my family on a cruise this summer, and I had fun (except having to share a room with my youngest sister, who is very much a spoiled brat and a dramaqueen..but even that didn't really stop the fun).

I had protested my going, as it was rather expensive, imo. I was glad I had the opportunity to go, though.

As a parent the only things that are my duty is to protect my children to the best of my ability. To house them (make sure they always have a roof over their head) To feed them three squares a day (with snacks) to love them and let them know I love them. To encourage them to be all they can be, to tell them anything is possible if they work hard for it. To take an active interest in their education and help in anyway I can. To pay/help for post high school education. The rest is simply gravy.

For my 16th birthday, I spent $400 dollars of my own money to buy myself a present.
I cannot stand it when I over hear people talking about recieving vastly expensive items, like a new car, as gifts! Gifts!!
It makes me so :mad:

It's all relative really, someone being upset because they "only" got £300 for their birthday seems as stupid to me as me rejecting £7 an hour for a job because it's not enough might to a working-class Indian.

Ridiculous.

It's all relative really, someone being upset because they "only" got £300 for their birthday seems as stupid to me as me rejecting £7 an hour for a job because it's not enough might to a working-class Indian.

I'd like to strangle anyone who would complain about getting £300 for their birthday.

I'd like to strangle anyone who would complain about getting £300 for their birthday.

And that'd be the sentiments of the working-class Indian to someone rejecting £7 an hour

My parents still haven't paid me back for that cruise...

lol tell them they have to pay you back with interest. my dad borrowed some money off me but hes paid it all back. I am the hoarder of the family. I don't think im spoiled that much. my dad will get me what i want, but its usually just a book or something. my brother is the one my parents worry about.

Ironically, my parents are always the ones that want to go on vacation. I just want to stay home. :|

That, and very, very bitter and pissed off.
I'm sorry. How can I help? :)

Cruises are nice.

I can't tell you that. Most likely, you will be long dead before them. Though I still would rather have the money. I'm a very shallow person.
:rolleyes:

As a parent the only things that are my duty is to protect my children to the best of my ability. To house them (make sure they always have a roof over their head) To feed them three squares a day (with snacks) to love them and let them know I love them. To encourage them to be all they can be, to tell them anything is possible if they work hard for it. To take an active interest in their education and help in anyway I can. To pay/help for post high school education. The rest is simply gravy.
You seem to have left out "teaching them to be self-disciplined." :)

For my 16th birthday, I spent $400 dollars of my own money to buy myself a present.
I cannot stand it when I over hear people talking about recieving vastly expensive items, like a new car, as gifts! Gifts!!
It makes me so :mad:
It doesn't make me mad so much as sad ... for the parents, who obviously think that's the way to raise their child, and for the child, who comes to think that getting expensive presents is the way love is expressed. :(

i don't like the term "spoled brat" cos it subconciously places the blame on the child... when the real fault is with the parents. that, plus i used to be one... :headbang:
I agree. But why were you one???

I agree. But why were you one???
Perspective is a nasty thing that you don't get unless your parents are on their toes. Most kids simply don't get it. I don't even understand the full view of it yet. We take things for granted, even if we don't intend to.

I agree. But why were you one???

When you're a kid, you're really self-centered and immature. You don't care about things like how hard your parents work or how much it costs. The only that goes through your mind is "I have to get it!"

I agree. But why were you one???
we used to be rich, now we're poor. well, we've been near dirt poor for the last 10+ years. we live ok, but everything we own, we owe as well; everything we earn, we owe too - comes in one way and straight out another... and the amount of work required just to keep that going is literally killing my parents :(
its a long story though.

sufficed to say its an experience that has taught me enough perspective to appreciate the time i have with my parents (even though this may be drawing to a close), appreciate the things they do and have done for me, and certainly not take things for granted anymore. plus the experience has made us all grow closer and form quite a special bond (out of necessity for one). for that reason alone i'm pretty sure, if i could, i wouldn't change the things that have happened to us and i wouldn't have it any other way :)


that said its also made me pretty bitter, twisted, depressed and cynical, but so what? :D


edit: sorry for the rant... its just one of those subjects if i get the chance too, i'll gnaw someone's ear off with the injustice of it all etc etc

The Cruise was nice. Course, mine was to Alaska, and I had to pay for it. O_o. And I was 11.

But that was a long time ago. :D

I'm quite pleased right now. Recording cover of Puritania an' all.

Grrr spoil'd brats. I do what my parents ask of me and don't moan much. Why can't they do the same?
The statement did not say that all teenagers were impossible to please, however it is certainly a common enough phenomenon that you shouldn't be surprised by it.

That, and very, very bitter and pissed off.
i hear you bro :p

When you're a kid, you're really self-centered and immature. You don't care about things like how hard your parents work or how much it costs. The only that goes through your mind is "I have to get it!"

Actually, when I was 10, I nagged my parents for doing stuff like...

1. Buying an $800 dollar Ping-Pong Table, despite we already had two.

2. Buying a BMW M-Roadster Sports Car, despite we already had 4 cars. (It was totaled...)

3. Buying their own arcade DDR thing. Each version. O_o

4. Throwing a $300 recliner out, because they didn't like the color.

5. Buying an expensive tropical flower, then letting it die, because they didn't know that you were supposed to water plants.

6. Accidentally throwing away a wallet with cash in it.

Needless to say, when I was 12, I forced them to cede control of the family finances....partially.

3. Buying their own arcade DDR thing. Each version. O_o

This is a perfectly acceptable expense.

I wish my parents would give me some of the cool stuff that i see kids today getting. I think that's part of the problem.

This is a perfectly acceptable expense.

I don't mean the PS1 and 2 games.

I meant the whole fucking arcade gaming device, that you find in arcades.

I don't mean the PS1 and 2 games.

I meant the whole fucking arcade gaming device, that you find in arcades.

Were your parents rich?

Were your parents rich?

I can't say...

*nags them about throwing away used paper cups and expired milk*

"We can still use them!"

I can't say...

*nags them about throwing away used paper cups and expired milk*

"We can still use them!"

How can you still use expired milk?

Perspective is a nasty thing that you don't get unless your parents are on their toes. Most kids simply don't get it. I don't even understand the full view of it yet. We take things for granted, even if we don't intend to.
True. We're victims of our own mileau. :)

How can you still use expired milk?

Uh....you drink it. >_<

we used to be rich, now we're poor. well, we've been near dirt poor for the last 10+ years. we live ok, but everything we own, we owe as well; everything we earn, we owe too - comes in one way and straight out another... and the amount of work required just to keep that going is literally killing my parents :(
its a long story though.

sufficed to say its an experience that has taught me enough perspective to appreciate the time i have with my parents (even though this may be drawing to a close), appreciate the things they do and have done for me, and certainly not take things for granted anymore. plus the experience has made us all grow closer and form quite a special bond (out of necessity for one). for that reason alone i'm pretty sure, if i could, i wouldn't change the things that have happened to us and i wouldn't have it any other way :)


that said its also made me pretty bitter, twisted, depressed and cynical, but so what? :D
Ah! Excellent! Not for your parents, obviously, but for you! It's called the "school of hard knocks" and is perhaps the very best teacher of all. [ cheers wildly for your "perspective," which could also be referred to as "wisdom." ]

Why would your time with your parents be "drawing to a close?" Are they unwell?

I hope you find your way out of being "bitter, twisted, depressed and cynical." Those attributes can, quite literally, kill you. Keep in mind that you can choose to be happy, regardless of circumstances. I know ... I am. :)

I wish my parents would give me some of the cool stuff that i see kids today getting. I think that's part of the problem.
Count your blessings that they don't.

Uh....you drink it. >_<
The expiration date on milk, as well as numerous other consumables, is primarily for the store's purposes. Most of them say "Do not sell after [ date ]." You can almost always count on milk, particularly in gallon containers and which is always kept ( other than to take out, pour, and put back ) refrigerated to last at least another week or two beyond the "expiration date."

Ah! Excellent! Not for your parents, obviously, but for you! It's called the "school of hard knocks" and is perhaps the very best teacher of all. [ cheers wildly for your "perspective," which could also be referred to as "wisdom." ]

indeed (way to save on words there :P )

Why would your time with your parents be "drawing to a close?" Are they unwell?
no, well not yet but the stress of things is really getting to their health (but i don't think about that now)
i only meant that in that i've lived with them for roughly 18 out of my 20 years, and i'm soon to be moving out and doing things on my own. as a proportion of my life past, and life to come, a year or so is 'drawing to a close' imo ;)

I hope you find your way out of being "bitter, twisted, depressed and cynical." Those attributes can, quite literally, kill you. Keep in mind that you can choose to be happy, regardless of circumstances. I know ... I am. :)
and yeah, you know i've been listening to you saying that on these here forums for quite some time now... and i'm now finding out myself that its true - to not let your circumstances get the better of you, and/or control you. it is possible, and i'm just beginning to learn that... thanks for the advice :)

indeed (way to save on words there :P )

no, well not yet but the stress of things is really getting to their health (but i don't think about that now)
i only meant that in that i've lived with them for roughly 18 out of my 20 years, and i'm soon to be moving out and doing things on my own. as a proportion of my life past, and life to come, a year or so is 'drawing to a close' imo ;)

and yeah, you know i've been listening to you saying that on these here forums for quite some time now... and i'm now finding out myself that its true - to not let your circumstances get the better of you, and/or control you. it is possible, and i'm just beginning to learn that... thanks for the advice :)
You are most welcome, my brother. I have learned the hard way that sharing what you learn with others, and helping others who are distressed in some way, is the best medicine for whatever emotional ills plague you.

May the Universe smile upon all your plans, may you learn the meaning of true joy, and may your grandchildren consider you wise and all-knowing. :D

You are most welcome, my brother. I have learned the hard way that sharing what you learn with others, and helping others who are distressed in some way, is the best medicine for whatever emotional ills plague you.

May the Universe smile upon all your plans, may you learn the meaning of true joy, and may your grandchildren consider you wise and all-knowing. :D
thanks, and indeed, helping others is a great tonic in itself :)

oh and don't forget being the "hero" of one of your grandchildren ;)

I can't tell you that. Most likely, you will be long dead before them. Though I still would rather have the money. I'm a very shallow person.

:cold stare:
You just increased my blood pressure, and that doesn't happen often from people I couldn't give a damn about.

(A subtle way of telling you your comment pissed me off and that you're a punk)

wow. those are some spoiled brats. What kid needs a cell phone? NONE. Boo hoo I will be a geek without one...tough! Kids have way too much ...some is okay but not fricking everything. What I see today are kids that think they can do anything and everything they want to do and to hell with eveyone else tell off teachers,disrespect adults, dress like hoodlums, blast stereos so everybody goes deaf, and the attitude is geez get a life or my mommy and daddy dont care so why should you? grrrr.. This isnt every kid -there are MANY good ones out there.

I wish my parents would give me some of the cool stuff that i see kids today getting. I think that's part of the problem.
damn straight.

My brothers EACH have (aka 2 total): Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DC. All were bought new at Christmas.

My grandmother bought me a Playstation 1 for my birthday when it came out. That's it. I have bought both my cheap ass mp3 players and footed most of the cost for my extra-cheap HP computers, which had been shared by my whole family except this one I am currently on which I footed the entire bill for.

You know what I got growing up? Toys, hundreds and hundreds of dollars of toys over the years, but 10 years worth of $5 toys has to add up, most of which were boguht by my grandmother (she spoiled me since I was her first grandchild). You know what my brothers get? A brand-new game whenever they want one, granted that isn't alot but I have seen new ones each month, or half a month before, for several months in a row. That isn't even counting the 3 they get each Christmas (which always seems to be in addition to the latest Gameboy handheld counting $100-150). All together now (for only a few years) must add up to near what I have collected of action figures.

There needs to be a secure place where you can abandon your kid in the woods for a few days with only the most basic of supplies. After a few days of being cold and hungry, you would come and pick your kid up again. Then, they'll probably appreciate being fed and sheltered. Hardship makes us stronger.