NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050929/ap_on_re_us/abu_ghraib_photos

U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein said that terrorists "do not need pretexts for their barbarism" and that suppressing the pictures would amount to submitting to blackmail.

"Our nation does not surrender to blackmail, and fear of blackmail is not a legally sufficient argument to prevent us from performing a statutory command. Indeed, the freedoms that we champion are as important to our success in Iraq and Afghanistan as the guns and missiles with which our troops are armed," he said.


I like this Judge, and his words put an arrow right through those that say that the release of such information would hurt the war effort.

Basically, if we hide our sins, then what are we fighting for anyway?

Man, can things get any worse for Bush?

Is this related to the "Porn for corpse-photos" deal some soldiers had with a Norwegian porn vendor?

That's OK. Bush's justice department is cracking down on obscenity, right? If any of those photos show nudity or something can't the Justice department just ban them under obscenity laws? Damn, I missed my calling. With my devious mind I could be like Karl Rove.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050929/ap_on_re_us/abu_ghraib_photos



I like this Judge, and his words put an arrow right through those that say that the release of such information would hurt the war effort.

Basically, if we hide our sins, then what are we fighting for anyway?

Man, can things get any worse for Bush?

President Bush is just fine. Last time I checked, he didn't order those soldiers to dress the terrorists up in dresses and make them form cheerleader pyramids.

Man, can things get any worse for Bush?

Apparently so... his approval ratings jumped around 5 points this past week.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/29/bush.poll/index.html

And he got his man confirmed as Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/29/roberts.nomination/index.html

And his approval of the handling of Hurricane Rita was near 70% (mentioned in the first link).

And he gets to appoint another Supreme Court Justice.

I'd say he's had a pretty good week. What goes on in a foreign prison camp to enemy soldiers doesn't concern most people. The conviction of Lynndie England didn't even make page 2 of my local newspaper. Why? Because most people don't care. Pictures of problems at Abu Ghraib produce an immediate, but short-lived reaction, because events at home always push them off the front pages. The only news from Iraq which concerns people is the death of American soldiers... the rest is just details, a flash in the pan. It's an Us and Them world... and these pictures concern them. Maybe it's a cold view, but it's the truth. Thinking anything like this would befall a President is foolhardy.

newsapers print what they think the people care about not what the people actually care about.

anyway I am glad they are ordered to be released but I really dont want to see them :(

Apparently so... his approval ratings jumped around 5 points this past week.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/29/bush.poll/index.html



The most recent poll was conducted before Rep. Tom DeLay, a Republican from Texas, was indicted by a Texas grand jury for conspiracy in connection with alleged violation of state election law.

We'll have to see how this impacts the numbers.

Yay!

Excellent news, it is good that we have judges with integrity.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050929/ap_on_re_us/abu_ghraib_photos



I like this Judge, and his words put an arrow right through those that say that the release of such information would hurt the war effort.

Basically, if we hide our sins, then what are we fighting for anyway?

Man, can things get any worse for Bush?


Why is this now about Bush ? There's been ...what three trials and convictions...( ? ) of soldiers involved along with a General reduced in rank and still ongoing investigations plus reforms of the system itself. All these pictures do is show more of the same story from the same incedent . Nothing new at all . The story is the decision itself and whether or not its appealed and how it effects the soldiers in the field if the opponents are right and the photo's should not be released . Wow same pictures = dead soldiers because its again used to stir things up . What if the judge is wrong ? How many dead soldiers is it worth to see those pictures ?

What I want to know is where a bunch of MPs and reservists learned to do the Vietnam with prisoners.

Excellent news, it is good that we have judges with integrity.

Seconded.

Why is this now about Bush ? There's been ...what three trials and convictions...( ? ) of soldiers involved along with a General reduced in rank and still ongoing investigations plus reforms of the system itself. All these pictures do is show more of the same story from the same incedent . Nothing new at all . The story is the decision itself and whether or not its appealed and how it effects the soldiers in the field if the opponents are right and the photo's should not be released . Wow same pictures = dead soldiers because its again used to stir things up . What if the judge is wrong ? How many dead soldiers is it worth to see those pictures ?

As everyone seems to want to remind Cindy Sheehan, those soldiers signed up of their own free will to fight for freedom. If soldiers' lives weren't worth freedom, Bush shouldn't have sent them to Iraq in the first place.

This is about Bush because it's his war.

Finally, it's not the pictures that risk our men's lives, it's what the pictures are of.

As everyone seems to want to remind Cindy Sheehan, those soldiers signed up of their own free will to fight for freedom. If soldiers' lives weren't worth freedom, Bush shouldn't have sent them to Iraq in the first place.

This is about Bush because it's his war.

Finally, it's not the pictures that risk our men's lives, it's what the pictures are of.

First of all if you live in the US and do not know what the powers of a president are then shame on you and our system of education . You should be aware by now that congress and the American people along with the president aggreed to go to war . It wouldnt have been able to happen any other way . So again now that you have been educated a bit , how is this about Bush ?
And what type of freedom is this again thats worth lives ? The freedom to see more pictures of naked twister ? What exactly is the principal at stake , or are you just saying; " I hate Bush so its ok if soldiers die then more people will hate Bush and aggree with me and I'll be happy " ?

Who are these things being released to? The justice department? Or the general public? If it's the latter, they shouldn't be released without the consent of the people in them. And given about how likely *that* is...

I suppose blurred out distinguishing characteristics could be OK, though. Although, as was pointed out, very, very special care would have to be taken to make it known that these were taken at such and such a date, and that there had been some tenuous reforms since, and quite likely were no longer happening.

Although, as was pointed out, very, very special care would have to be taken to make it known that these were taken at such and such a date, and that there had been some tenuous reforms since, and quite likely were no longer happening.
Well, I think you can be pretty certain that they aren't taking photos of their exploits anymore...

First of all if you live in the US and do not know what the powers of a president are then shame on you and our system of education . You should be aware by now that congress and the American people along with the president aggreed to go to war . It wouldnt have been able to happen any other way . So again now that you have been educated a bit , how is this about Bush ?
And what type of freedom is this again thats worth lives ? The freedom to see more pictures of naked twister ? What exactly is the principal at stake , or are you just saying; " I hate Bush so its ok if soldiers die then more people will hate Bush and aggree with me and I'll be happy " ?

Okay. Yes or no. Without Bush's okay, would this war have ever happened? The war is his, it's his administration's plan and it's his administration's responsibility. The "powers" of the President don't even come into it.

Secondly, if you don't know what access to knowledge of what our government is doing to people has to do with freedom, then you just don't know the point of the 1st amendment. We can't have Democracy if we don't know what our government is doing in our name. Without the freedom of the press to expose the government, the 1st amendment would be as toothless as the 2nd amendment without the right to also have bullets in our guns.

Okay, that last sentence of yours is ridiculous, and you know it. Don't try the demonized strawman trick, thank you very much. Nowhere did I say that it's okay for soldiers to die. What I did say is that if they are being sent off, sometimes to die, in the name of freedom, then that should be their job. Period. We could save all our soldiers' lives by nuking Iraq or firebombing and never letting a boot touch the ground. We don't do that. Why? Because we're not evil sons of bitches. Torture is fucking evil...as evil as flying planes into buildings or strapping bombs onto people and having them blow up a crowd. It's efficacy, at the very least, has a big question mark over it.