NationStates Jolt Archive

I was reading a thread on these forums earlier, and came across a post that interested me. Basically, it said that religion and science are completely incompatible with each other on some issues (origin of life and origin of the universe), and that logical, critically thinking people should realize that religion has been thoroughly debunked as myth.

This reminded of an article I read earlier this year written by Dr. Gerald Schroeder. The main is a former professor of nuclear physics at MIT and member of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. He is a very educated man, who also happens to be a very religious Orthodox Jew.

He wrote an article titled "Age of the Universe" which compares all that we know of current science, with commentaries on Jewish scripture. Note: all of the commentaries on Jewish scripture that he references are at least 300 years old. They do not contain ad hoc hypothesises that try to explain away the laws of physics.

He explains that the earth has been around for 5800 years... plus 6 days. Those 6 days are where all of the controversy comes from. He then goes on to mathematically (using Physics) explain what could actually be the case. Since all that Christianity knows about creation came from the Jewish scripture, its quite simple to say if the Torah is right, so is the Bible.

Heres a link to the article itself:
http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Age_of_the_universe.asp

P.S. Please read the article before labeling me a religious nut. Thanks.

P.P.S. PLEASE do not make this a thread about the differences between Judaism or Christianity, or blindly attack the religion(s). Dr. Schroeders article is objectively written with a mathematical approach. Do it the honor of replying with the same kind of logic.

its been close to 3 hours and no replys? I guess there are too many "creationism versus science" threads to leave room for one that says maybe it isnt a conflict...

Also, im somewhat suprirsed that option 4 on the poll is winning :P

its been close to 3 hours and no replys? I guess there are too many "creationism versus science" threads to leave room for one that says maybe it isnt a conflict...

Also, im somewhat suprirsed that option 4 on the poll is winning :P
No, there isn't a conflict.

So as long as people keep their religious issues out of science classes, then I don't care.

I'm glad to see that someone else seem to get it.

There will never be proof that God exisists. There will never be proof that God does not exist. Proof denies faith, which is the foundation of free will. I believe that the Bible is the the inspired word of God, but recorded in imperfect human language and translated with imperfect human understanding.

Science is the exploration of creation. God created the universe with a set of laws. We call these the laws of physics. The more that we explore creation, the more we discover about God.

Science is the exploration of creation. God created the universe with a set of laws. We call these the laws of physics. The more that we explore creation, the more we discover about God.
Nitpick- we don't make physical laws anymore.

I've always viewed science as explaining the 'How' It doesn't disprove the exsistance of God.

Religion and science arent incompatabile on origin of the universe.

Bit vague that. Depends on the religion and the nature of the religion.

Let me clarify right at the start. The world may be only some 6000 years old. God could have put the fossils in the ground and juggled the light arriving from distant galaxies to make the world appear to be billions of years old. There is absolutely no way to disprove this claim

*Declare open season on "[insert random thing here] created the universe/is behind you/etc, go on prove me wrong*

I could not pick any of the poll options. If there was something there I could pick, it would be "Genesis is right, it is a myth and must be understood non-literally."

Ignoring the crazy 4th solution.

It appears, people either say it is all myth...or, it was real, but just over-exaggerated the way people explain it now.

In either case....we got 5766 years of history biatches...even if we're wrong, our stories will be remembered forever! hahahahahahhahah

G-d bless Judaism. ^-^

Originally Posted by Dr. Schroeder's article
Let me clarify right at the start. The world may be only some 6000 years old. God could have put the fossils in the ground and juggled the light arriving from distant galaxies to make the world appear to be billions of years old. There is absolutely no way to disprove this claim
One thing, as long as this man realizes this isn't scientific, then all is well.
If he's trying to pass this off as science, then there's a problem here.

"And God said, let there be a ball of ultra-compressed matter that will explode and create matter, energy and all that other stuff, causing a series of reactions resulting in the creation of the first hydrogen molocules which in turn go on the form other elements, make it so!"
Poof!
Universe now exists.

I read some of the site. The guy claims to avoid interpretation by using ancient commentaries but then interprets them, and he makes a few IDish arguments, both of which make me loose respect for him. His message, besides the "we have the truth" arguments, is basically something that's been argued before: the bible can easily be interpreted to support whatever theory of creation comes is most popular at the time. Christianity and Judaism aren't even supposed to be taken literally, the only religion that is is Islam.

One thing, as long as this man realizes this isn't scientific, then all is well.
If he's trying to pass this off as science, then there's a problem here.

It is not beyound the realm of possiblity. Was the earth created with a history or did it develop naturally? The question is irrelivant. If you believe that God has the power to create the universe in an instant, it would be a small detail to make everything have an apropiate history to have reached this particular point thru natural processes.

It is not beyound the realm of possiblity. Was the earth created with a history or did it develop naturally? The question is irrelivant. If you believe that God has the power to create the universe in an instant, it would be a small detail to make everything have an apropiate history to have reached this particular point thru natural processes.

True, though it wouldn't be very truthful of him to do so. I though God was supposed to be benevolent?

True, though it wouldn't be very truthful of him to do so. I though God was supposed to be benevolent?

It all comes back to faith.

True, though it wouldn't be very truthful of him to do so. I though God was supposed to be benevolent?

I know the G-d in Judaism is. I cannot speak for everyone else.

And just because G-d has took the lives (Can't really use the word murder), of countless people does not make him...not benevolent.

just thought i'd clear that.

Although i am perplexed by Christians and Hell.

This is a post I made in another similar thread that seemed to have died as soon as I posted. I just think it's interesting how narrow-minded some people are when they blindly reject others opinions and arguments when it is possible that the true answer lies somewhere in the middle.

The main thing that needs to be learned is the undeniable truth that science can only explain so much and as soon as you solve one scientific problem, 10 more are staring you in the face. We've done some amazing things with science to be sure, but the theory of evolution cannot stand on its own, Darwin himself believed that his theory proved the existence of god. For example, the fact that we have come from a single celled organism to what we are today contrasts with everything we've ever learned about entropy. Also, many other questions such as, if matter can neither be created or destroyed, why and how is it here? There is not a scientist in the world that can take me to before the Big Bang or to the farthest reaches of space. People say that experiments that support the Big Bang disprove the existence of god, to which I respond “everything in your experiments are representative of actual things and events correct? They of course respond in the affirmative so I then am forced to ask… “then who is the scientist?” Many of these experiments prove to me what I have known in my heart for years. As an example, Particle Physicists are now saying that matter is nothing but trapped energy (strangely coincidental that almost all early religions describe god as pure energy). These same Physicists are now finding that all matter is interconnected by this energy. These as well as many of the other questions that gnaw at us and gnaw at me as a man of science do nothing but support the theory of intelligent design and have forced me to see what I now know to be true. I do not understand why some people fail to realize that science and religion are merely two different roads to the same destination.