NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is using a club to kill an animal less humane than using a gun, a knife, an arrow, a car, a locked box, a fish hook, a fish net, a razor blade, a rusty nail, teeth or bare hands?

Oh, I forgot a microwave oven.

club = more pain and a less quick death.

but then that applies to "bare hands" and a number of others on your list... but they don't usually count as 'humane' killing methods either...

club = more pain and a less quick death.

but then that applies to "bare hands" and a number of others on your list... but they don't usually count as 'humane' killing methods either...
How can there be pain if the animal is unconscious with the first blow? Wouldn't a bullet in the chest hurt more?

Why is using a club to kill an animal less humane than using a gun, a knife, an arrow, a car, a locked box, a fish hook, a fish net, a razor blade, a rusty nail, teeth or bare hands?

Oh, I forgot a microwave oven.

What about swords? Or halberds?

I think it's less humane becasue a gun is an instant kill. Clubs can take two or three hits.

club = more pain and a less quick death.

but then that applies to "bare hands" and a number of others on your list... but they don't usually count as 'humane' killing methods either...

I don't think that a proper hit with a club would be any less quick than a properly placed bullet.

How can there be pain if the animal is unconscious with the first blow? Wouldn't a bullet in the chest hurt more?
Depends how you hit it. :rolleyes:

What about swords? Or halberds?

I think it's less humane becasue a gun is an instant kill. Clubs can take two or three hits.
ha! wimp!

Nothing inhumane about clubs, it all depends on who they're used against. ;)

How can there be pain if the animal is unconscious with the first blow? Wouldn't a bullet in the chest hurt more?

You assume the club handler is good enough to do that.

I have seen footage of seal clubbings and few were knocked unconscious.

If this is what you are refering too, sorry but clubbing is bad since the concern is protecting the pelt vesus a quick dispatch.....

How can there be pain if the animal is unconscious with the first blow? Wouldn't a bullet in the chest hurt more?
who says the first blow will always knock out the animal?
you're just adding specifics about where you strike it - in which case if you shoot it in the head rather than the chest its quite likely to die instantly or near enough. clubbing it in the chest till its dead is just nasty. clubbing it in the head gives no gaurentee of knocking it out, but if it does its still less efficient than shooting it.

it all boils down to efficiency methinks

What about swords? Or halberds?

I think it's less humane becasue a gun is an instant kill. Clubs can take two or three hits.
So, in having a gun you're automatically a good marksman? Whereas any fool can wield a club?

Like any other weapon, if used incorrectly, the animal suffers and does not die an immediate death.

A gun is no real guarantee - if you shoot an animal in the torso, the death is never instantaneous.

Only weapons which severely damage the majority of brain tissue or traumatically sever the spinal cord result in so-called painless or instant death.

For humans, this means anything that transects the spinal column above the sixth cervical vertebra, or destroys the medulla, or damages the neural motor strips (located on right and left, in the brain areas above the ears. Or total destruction of the brain.

Anything else, and you're going to feel it. Minimum time of sensation for a non-instant death is 10 to 15 seconds - the time required to lose consciousness.

Obviously, a properly used club can destroy the necessary brain tissue. So can a firearm. A knife is more difficult.

Oh, I forgot a microwave oven.

Have you ever microwaved an animal to death?

THE FORUM DEMANDS TO KNOW!

who says the first blow will always knock out the animal?
you're just adding specifics about where you strike it - in which case if you shoot it in the head rather than the chest its quite likely to die instantly or near enough. clubbing it in the chest till its dead is just nasty. clubbing it in the head gives no gaurentee of knocking it out, but if it does its still less efficient than shooting it.

it all boils down to efficiency methinks
If you were aiming to kill it, specific areas are a given.

Have you ever microwaved an animal to death?

THE FORUM DEMANDS TO KNOW!
No, and personally I think the tales of microwaving kittens is an urban legend of some sort, but I'm too afraid to google it... I might just find out.

So, in having a gun you're automatically a good marksman? Whereas any fool can wield a club?

No, but think of it; would you rather be clubbed to death or shot?

And clubs still need a bit of skill. Hit them in the wrong place and they're gonna feel it.

No, but think of it; would you rather be clubbed to death or shot?

And clubs still need a bit of skill. Hit them in the wrong place and they're gonna feel it.
No doubt about it, if attacked by a skilled assassin I'd rather have my skull crushed.

So, in having a gun you're automatically a good marksman? Whereas any fool can wield a club?
If it's a seal or similar, you don't need to be a good marksman. You just walk up to the poor sod with a high calibre rifle and put the muzzle on its head.

Also, the most humane way of killing seals is to set Steven Seagal on them. True fact.

Have you ever microwaved an animal to death?

THE FORUM DEMANDS TO KNOW!


I routinely kill flies at 7-11 in the microwave. I open it - they fly in, I close the door and press PIZZA.

No, and personally I think the tales of microwaving kittens is an urban legend of some sort, but I'm too afraid to google it... I might just find out.
http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/3461/VT/US/2
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/597567.stm
Luckily --- no pictures.

No, and personally I think the tales of microwaving kittens is an urban legend of some sort, but I'm too afraid to google it... I might just find out.

Indeed. I would imagine that of all the methods of being killed, being microwaved would probably be up there for one of the worst.

I routinely kill flies at 7-11 in the microwave. I open it - they fly in, I close the door and press PIZZA.
That's kinda screwed up. Stoned teenagers have to heat up their "food" in those things at 3 am.

That's kinda screwed up. Stoned teenagers have to heat up their "food" in those things at 3 am.
:eek: good point.

The purpose of this thread was supposed to be the inhumanity of specifically clubs, as they seem to have generated so much opposition as opposed to other forms of killing animals.

Canada's marine mammal regulations are very specific about how an animal is to be killed with a club (a head blow) and violators are prosecuted. It is a licensed activity, not available to any schmoe with a hankering to hit something.

The purpose of this thread was supposed to be the inhumanity of specifically clubs, as they seem to have generated so much opposition as opposed to other forms of killing animals.

Canada's marine mammal regulations are very specific about how an animal is to be killed with a club (a head blow) and violators are prosecuted. It is a licensed activity, not available to any schmoe with a hankering to hit something.

I suppose the real question is "why kill seals at all?"

I suppose the real question is "why kill seals at all?"
Because it's profitable.

I suppose the real question is "why kill seals at all?"
Why cull any wildlife? Because they infringe on man's food-gathering and livelihood activities.

I suppose the real question is "why kill seals at all?"

For fur and to keep the population in check?

Indeed. I would imagine that of all the methods of being killed, being microwaved would probably be up there for one of the worst.

Personally, i'd think having acid dropped on your skin, one inch at a time, until you are a pathetic skinless blubbering mass then being rolled in salt before finally being castrated with a rusty spoon is way worse than being microwaved.

I suppose the real question is "why kill seals at all?"

Hm. Because some people like their skins?

Where's Dobbs when you need him?

Because it's profitable.

BUZZ!

DCD comes up with the correct answer.

Not the morally correct answer, maybe, but the reason why people do.

BUZZ!

DCD comes up with the correct answer.

Not the morally correct answer, maybe, but the reason why people do.
It's not morally incorrect either. It's just a bunch of dead seals. Not like they're endangered or anything.

Aah... not sure about animals, but in humans the higher up in the brain you go, (height wise, i mean literally), the more 'human' the brain hets, so the lower parts, the back of the neck where the brain stem joins the brain and spine, is where the vital brain bits go.so a shot in the back of the neck is the best. of course, there's a 'horrific' saudi arabian method of a beheading. almost instant, less gory than a gun. in a way. it's not like this. :sniper: brains all over wall. just a

So i'd say, a beheading is more scary, but less nasty than a shot to the back of the head. of course, clubbing by a person who knows how to do it is also swift. so i tihnk this - if you're going to kill it, use a shock to knock it out first.

It's not morally incorrect either. It's just a bunch of dead seals. Not like they're endangered or anything.

I dunno, i don't really give two shits for animal rights, bad of me i know, but i think, yanno, priorities first. Sort out the humans, sort out that whole "food/water/air" deal. Then we can move on to the fluffy bunnies.

I'm not for MINDLESS nastiness to animals though. Which is half the reason i chuckled when the UK banned foxhunting (the other half being watching the inbred sons of the aristocracy suddenly bleating about rights they and their ancestors had denied the vast majority of the population when their bloodsports were threatened).

Personally, i'd think having acid dropped on your skin, one inch at a time, until you are a pathetic skinless blubbering mass then being rolled in salt before finally being castrated with a rusty spoon is way worse than being microwaved.

Aha, but I didn't say it was THE worst, now did I?

Aha, but I didn't say it was THE worst, now did I?

Yeah, ok, i was just applying for a job at Abu whatisplace.

I dunno, i don't really give two shits for animal rights, bad of me i know, but i think, yanno, priorities first. Sort out the humans, sort out that whole "food/water/air" deal. Then we can move on to the fluffy bunnies.
Bunnies are raised domestically for their pelts. Yet they don't get a plethora of anti-bunny killer websites for their cause.

Bunnies are raised domestically for their pelts. Yet they don't get a plethora of anti-bunny killer websites for their cause.

Also for food! Man, have you SEEN one of those meat-bunnies? They're HUGE.

Bunnies are raised domestically for their pelts. Yet they don't get a plethora of anti-bunny killer websites for their cause.

Mmm, i think thats mainly to do with the utter prevalence of bunnies in most of the western world and the understanding of how f*cking irritating they can get if not kept in check.

Whereas only a very small population of the world has to deal with seals on a day to day basis, so they seem exotic and cyute. Familiarity breeds contempt and all that.

Mmm, i think thats mainly to do with the utter prevalence of bunnies in most of the western world and the understanding of how f*cking irritating they can get if not kept in check.

Whereas only a very small population of the world has to deal with seals on a day to day basis, so they seem exotic and cyute. Familiarity breeds contempt and all that.
I understand how it's a romantic thing, to save the cuddley cute beast. But the seal population is more than triple what it was in the 1970's, and they were considered a "pest" animal even back then.

Also for food! Man, have you SEEN one of those meat-bunnies? They're HUGE.
Nope, haven't seen one.

But this is to die for (http://www.furcommission.com/news/NEWS%20Graphics/Sealskin1.jpg).

Hm. Because some people like their skins?

Where's Dobbs when you need him?

People use the skins?
You mean baby seals arn't just for breakfast anymore?
Personaly I prefer baby seals to spotted owls.
Spotted owls taste too much like bald eagles.

I suppose the real question is "why kill seals at all?"
food
what scares me is that you guy don't know that seals get eaten. besides seal flipper pie being one of my favorate meals there meat is bottled and eaten in other forms. but i supose i should have exspected as much you only ever see the side of the story where the stars wear fur and the sealers (who in many cases depend on the hunt for there lively hood) hiting the "baby seals" (correct termanolagy is seal pup) on the ice.

food
what scares me is that you guy don't know that seals get eaten. besides seal flipper pie being one of my favorate meals there meat is bottled and eaten in other forms. but i supose i should have exspected as much you only ever see the side of the story where the stars wear fur and the sealers (who in many cases depend on the hunt for there lively hood) hiting the "baby seals" (correct termanolagy is seal pup) on the ice.
Bottled seal meat? What's that taste like? Do they run it through a blender first or something?

Bottled seal meat? What's that taste like? Do they run it through a blender first or something?
Probably just chunks in a pickle jar.

I suppose the real question is "why kill seals at all?"

Because a seal would kill everyone you know and love if it could.

Probably just chunks in a pickle jar.
Damn, I was kinda hoping it would be like a high-protein meat flavored shake enriched with Omega 3 fatty acids from the seal's fishy diet.

Damn, I was kinda hoping it would be like a high-protein meat flavored shake enriched with Omega 3 fatty acids from the seal's fishy diet.

I have gotta stop reading these threads while eating my lunch.

Eewww! :(

Bunnies are raised domestically for their pelts. Yet they don't get a plethora of anti-bunny killer websites for their cause.
NO SHIT!

HA!

Now everyone look away...no seals to see here... :p

And what about chinchilla farms, huh?

food
what scares me is that you guy don't know that seals get eaten. besides seal flipper pie being one of my favorate meals there meat is bottled and eaten in other forms. but i supose i should have exspected as much you only ever see the side of the story where the stars wear fur and the sealers (who in many cases depend on the hunt for there lively hood) hiting the "baby seals" (correct termanolagy is seal pup) on the ice.
Now who is spreading disinformation?

The people who eat seals are generally abos like myself. And my cousins to the North don't kill the pups. What the hell good is that? They leave the pups alone, just as they leave the other baby animals alone...to fatten up, grow, and turn into good eating. So no...the ones clubbing pups are generally fur harvesting, not hunters. And many of them aren't thoughtful enough to take the skinned carcasses to those that WOULD make use of the meat. Not all seal hunting is pup-bashing folks...but you go ahead and be pissed off at the f*ckers that just skin 'em and leave. Just like any trophy-hunter pisses me off...*grumbles about elk antlers and meat left to rot in the woods*

Bottled seal meat? What's that taste like? Do they run it through a blender first or something?

Yeah-Starbucks will make a seal "Puppicino" with broth and seal meat frappe and lots of caffeine-skater dudes will love it.

Why is using a club to kill an animal less humane than using a gun, a knife, an arrow, a car, a locked box, a fish hook, a fish net, a razor blade, a rusty nail, teeth or bare hands?

Oh, I forgot a microwave oven.
It's not. If you do it right, the animal is killed instantly. (That's why bolt guns are used in slaughterhouses these days. A bolt gun is basically a club with pinpoint accuracy.)

There are ways to kill an animal slowly and noninvasively that are also humane: infusion of an anaesthetic like Nembutal.

<-- just got a job as a lab tech