NationStates Jolt Archive

I know that I and a couple of my friends here are in fact members of the Boy Scouts of America. Now, I would like to extend a quick message to others on this site, and other people here who believe in our values as well.

I have recently noticed that of late, there has been a lot of criticism of our organization and our beliefs because we support organizied religions and our banning of homosexuals from our ranks. Some of the criticism I've heard has been enough to make me sick. I know that there are some out there not as strong as I, so I'm going to use the only means of communicating my message here. I would like to follow President Bush's words at the 2005 National Jamboree in saying that we must all stand strong and hold fast our beliefs against those who would like to see them undone, and those that criticize without knowing or because it seems the 'popular' thing to do. I urge all of you reading not to listen to the nay-sayers and continue the tradition of nearly 100 years in America. Without holding fast to our traditions and morals, we will most certainly come undone.

Also, I must make a comment in regards to the recent Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. As Boy Scouts, all of us have a commitment to send what aid we can to those affected. So, when you get your opportunity, do so. To those of you who have been in the affected region or still are (get off the computer for one), I urge you to put your training to use and help those that you can. You were not taught everything so that it could rot away and be forgotten. Help all those around you who are in need.

[Now, for the disclaimers: Though it could seem like such to many, I'm not trying to flamebait or troll. If you think I am, then please let me know or take other action. Also, this message applies not only to the organization's ranks, but also to anyone who believes in its values and traditions. I had something I felt needed to be heard, and so I've said it and have no regrets. I hope some of you out there who are Boy Scouts have found this message useful or something like that.]

-Written by a Life Scout, working toward Eagle Rank.-

I couldn't care less. Just get the hell off of public property while you spew your hate. Do have a nice day.

See, now that's just the thing we DON'T need. I should also take this time to ask why so many people DO hate us. We haven't done anything to hurt anyone, quite the contrary actually. Anyone have any insight besides the ususal "anti-homosexual" arguments?

I couldn't care less. Just get the hell off of public property while you spew your hate. Do have a nice day.
Sums it up quite nicely indeed.

I couldn't care less. Just get the hell off of public property while you spew your hate. Do have a nice day.
boy scouts hate people? I had no idea. My husband was an Eagle scout, and I was in the Explorer program in highschool. I never heard anyone in Boy scouts talk about hating anyone. Could you please provide a link to what you are talking about? because I am naive maybe.


To the original poster. I love the Boy Scouts I think it really helped my husband grow into a great husband and father despite how screwed up his homelife was. It taught him honor, resourfulness and responsibility. I would put my kids in Boy Scouts (except for they are girls :()

See, now that's just the thing we DON'T need. I should also take this time to ask why so many people DO hate us. We haven't done anything to hurt anyone, quite the contrary actually. Anyone have any insight besides the ususal "anti-homosexual" arguments?
Ever think that maybe there is a reason why those arguments keep popping up?

Regardless of their organization's views, I generally have a somewhat favorable opinion of the Boy Scouts. They do a lot of good despite their controversial objections to homosexuality, and I credit them for it. It's the same with quite a few churches or other institutions; even though I find their politics disagreeable, I can still see the good in the work they do.

EDIT: What exactly does the "Yes" option mean? :confused:

See, now that's just the thing we DON'T need. I should also take this time to ask why so many people DO hate us. We haven't done anything to hurt anyone, quite the contrary actually. Anyone have any insight besides the ususal "anti-homosexual" arguments?
That about sums it up. You're a bunch of bigots. Get off of public property.

Interesting fact: Gay males have a 40% suicide attempt rate and a 70% suidical thought rate. Wonder why?

boy scouts hate people? I had no idea. My husband was an Eagle scout, and I was in the Explorer program in highschool. I never heard anyone in Boy scouts talk about hating anyone. Could you please provide a link to what you are talking about? because I am naive maybe.


To the original poster. I love the Boy Scouts I think it really helped my husband grow into a great husband and father despite how screwed up his homelife was. It taught him honor, resourfulness and responsibility. I would put my kids in Boy Scouts (except for they are girls :()

Try the Girl Scouts, I've heard nothing but great things about them as well.

And this is what I'm also trying to find out, where did this hate for us come from? My father was in the program, he only made First-Class because his troop fell apart. I'm glad for your husband, I'm starting to find out just how much work that rank really is, and I agree wholly on the honor part.

That about sums it up. You're a bunch of bigots. Get off of public property.

That's pretty stereotypical. I was a scout, and most definitely wasn't a bigot, and I think quite a few others aren't either.

I was a boy scout from when I was eleven until I turned eighteen. I think the program has a lot of merits, I learned a lot in boy scouts, and had a lot of fun, but I also think that the organization has been hijacked by bigoted right-wing Christian fundamentalists, who interpret the Scout Oath as having a meaning that it was never intended to have. My troop continually ignored the blatherings of the national council, as our entire council really does not percieve the current national council as really very legitimate, and we continued doing scouts the way we always had, being extremely active in the outdoors, camping activities, and utterly ignoring the Christian message the currently leadership is trying to give it.

Anyway, despite having been a boy scout, who earned the rank of Eagle Scout, I continue to be against the national council's homophobic policies. In addition, I hold extremely left-wing political views on just about all the major issues of our day.

The national council does not speak for me.

That's pretty stereotypical. I was a scout, and most definitely wasn't a bigot, and I think quite a few others aren't either.
Pardon me. The organization's leaders are a bunch of bigots. Get off public property. Better?

Regardless of their organization's views, I generally have a somewhat favorable opinion of the Boy Scouts. They do a lot of good despite their controversial objections to homosexuality, and I credit them for it. It's the same with quite a few churches or other institutions; even though I find their politics disagreeable, I can still see the good in the work they do.

EDIT: What exactly does the "Yes" option mean? :confused:

Yes means that you ARE in the organization. I just wanta know that I'm not alone here.

Pardon me. The organization leaders are a bunch of bigots. Get off public property. Better?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.
You're welcome then. I don't mean to slander the entire organization, considering once upon a time I was a boy scout, rather, I dislike the direction the organization has been heading, especially the national organization.

That's pretty stereotypical. I was a scout, and most definitely wasn't a bigot, and I think quite a few others aren't either.

I agree, if any of our leadership heard one of my troop mates bad mouthing someone, there'd be a heck of a lot of trouble.

Pardon me. The organization's leaders are a bunch of bigots. Get off public property. Better?

No, not better. All the leaders I've ever known are not bigots in the least. This is still stereotyping. This thread was NOT intended as flamebait, and I don't want and flaming or flamebait in it.

[EDIT: I agree, though, National Council has become too right-wing. I don't approve of the increasing Christian influence, despite being Christian. I don't really listen to them either.

And about being 'homophobic', we're not. Scout Oath states to be "morally straight". It was agreed that the passage meant heterosexual too. I don't know when or by whom, but it was. None of the people in the organization that I know of are against homosexuals.]

No, not better. All the leaders I've ever known are not bigots in the least. This is still stereotyping. This thread was NOT intended as flamebait, and I don't want and flaming or flamebait in it.
The leadership. The national organization. The big bosses. Bunch of homophobic anti-atheist bigots.

I was a Scout while growing up, and it was really important to me. I had a great deal of fun and learned a lot about teamwork and the outdoors.

However I can no longer fully support the organisation.

Does Scouts teach and represent many good and noble qualities? Certainly, but to me this just highlights their barbaric insistence on banning atheists and homosexuals.

Scouts are good people and should know better.

(Of course this is just my opinion).

The leadership. The national organization. The big bosses. Bunch of homophobic anti-atheist bigots.
Anti-atheist? It states in the Scout Law that "A Scout is Reverent". However, no one I know of IS anti-atheist.

Why don't they just call it Keep It in the Closet Church Adventure for Boys and be done with it?

Anti-atheist? It states in the Scout Law that "A Scout is Reverent". However, no one I know of IS anti-atheist.

http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-113.htm
Q. Can an individual who states that he does not believe in God be a volunteer Scout leader or member?

A. No. The Scout Oath represents the basic values of Scouting, and it addresses the issue of “duty to God” before duty to country, others, and self.

http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-113.htm
Q. Can an individual who states that he does not believe in God be a volunteer Scout leader or member?

A. No. The Scout Oath represents the basic values of Scouting, and it addresses the issue of “duty to God” before duty to country, others, and self.

Yeah, basically. Though the orginization doesn't allow it, none of us HATE athiests.

I know that I and a couple of my friends here are in fact members of the Boy Scouts of America. Now, I would like to extend a quick message to others on this site, and other people here who believe in our values as well.

I have recently noticed that of late, there has been a lot of criticism of our organization and our beliefs because we support organizied religions and our banning of homosexuals from our ranks. Some of the criticism I've heard has been enough to make me sick. I know that there are some out there not as strong as I, so I'm going to use the only means of communicating my message here. I would like to follow President Bush's words at the 2005 National Jamboree in saying that we must all stand strong and hold fast our beliefs against those who would like to see them undone, and those that criticize without knowing or because it seems the 'popular' thing to do. I urge all of you reading not to listen to the nay-sayers and continue the tradition of nearly 100 years in America. Without holding fast to our traditions and morals, we will most certainly come undone.

Also, I must make a comment in regards to the recent Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. As Boy Scouts, all of us have a commitment to send what aid we can to those affected. So, when you get your opportunity, do so. To those of you who have been in the affected region or still are (get off the computer for one), I urge you to put your training to use and help those that you can. You were not taught everything so that it could rot away and be forgotten. Help all those around you who are in need.

[Now, for the disclaimers: Though it could seem like such to many, I'm not trying to flamebait or troll. If you think I am, then please let me know or take other action. Also, this message applies not only to the organization's ranks, but also to anyone who believes in its values and traditions. I had something I felt needed to be heard, and so I've said it and have no regrets. I hope some of you out there who are Boy Scouts have found this message useful or something like that.]

-Written by a Life Scout, working toward Eagle Rank.-

There is nothing against homosexuals as members, only as leaders las I checked. And for once president Bush said something I agree with in that statement, but the BSA encomposes so many beliefs, and so many people that that could mean anything. Look at the Oath and Law, that is what we teach, and try to live by (although the upper beucracy sometimes struggles with the idea). But hold on to, and stand up for what you belive in, whatever it is. I do agree with that. I would also like to add my voice to the call of support for Katrina and Rita victims. Even if you can't get up go (not many of us can) drop a quarter in a donation bin, or gather needed materials (eagle project :eek: ). And the BSA does catch a lot of flack, but not for what we stand up for as much as what we claim to and don't. So if you claim yourself as part of the BSA, please live it.

-Written by an employee of the BSA, and avid scouter

Yeah, basically. Though the orginization doesn't allow it, none of us HATE athiests.
Please. Your organization is offically anti-atheist and anti-homosexual. Get off of public lands. Ciao.

As a Canadian Chief Scout and Venturer, I think I can say that this is one of many areas where Canada is much mellower on a subject than our southern neighbours. I would defy anyone to pick out more than one in a hundred of the people in the Canadian scout movement who has any real seed of hatred in him or her. I'm willing to bet that a similar rate is present within the ranks of the American Boy Scouts. What their high council has to say about an issue certainly doesn't automatically reflect the views of the Scouts themselves.

Still, both programs do take their roots from a religious-themed organisation. The difference may lie in how much leeway lies between history and current practice. Up here, if you don't want to recite a prayer or even God Save the Queen, there's no concrete obligation. A friend of mine who is a buddhist made a great scout, and I wrestled with faith all throughout it and came out an agnostic who can run a whitewater river in a leaky canoe.

I think that if the American system places emphasis on the doctrine, there's a problem there. Canadian scout work has always been, as I can recall, about having fun with friends, trying new things, gaining experiences which can both keep you alive and carry over to everyday life, and understanding duty, merit and community.

And about being 'homophobic', we're not. Scout Oath states to be "morally straight". It was agreed that the passage meant heterosexual too. I don't know when or by whom, but it was. None of the people in the organization that I know of are against homosexuals.]
Don't you think it is reasonable for people to assume that because homosexuals and atheists are not allowed to join that the organisation is against them?

If you are not anti-homosexual how do you justify singling them out?

Interesting fact: Gay males have a 40% suicide attempt rate and a 70% suidical thought rate. Wonder why?
Oh my GOD (Greater Orlando Daschund)! You mean that Gays might think about killing themselves?! I mean, no one has ever picked up a knife and thought about which vein to go for in the entire history of humanity!
Obviously those numbers are to high, I'll bet that those attempts aren't even really suicide attempts. I bet that the boy scouts are doing it, but everyone is to afraid to stick it to some 10 year olds camping in the woods, so they cover it up by saying "suicide attempt."
If gay men are too GOD(the daschund again)damn pathetic to survive contact with themselves everyone else needs to pay! I want boyscouts, girlscouts, and Brad Pitt (because he played Boy Scout in Spy Games) immediately imprisoned until every single gay man in the world has been freed from any desire to die.
As long as one Homosexual Citizen of the World harbors thoughts of suicide, the Scouts may not rest from working in the salt mines.

Hey I was a Scout (a loong time ago) - but not in the United States. The first I ever heard of the "Boy Scouts of America" as opposed to organizations affiliated with Scouts International, the legacy of Lord Baden-Powell, was a story told to me by one of my father's co-workers, who'd had to relocate to New Jersey for a year due to work, and so naturally enough, he'd tried smoothing out the transition for his son by continuing both their participation in Scouting.

Well, they were told they couldn't simply join as members of Scouts International - they had to apply to join, as the BSA wasn't affiliated. When they looked over the application and talked it out with the local BSA chapter, his son flat-out refused to be a part of this organization. Religion and politics have no place in real Scouting, and that wasn't lost on either father or son.

I don't claim to understand the BSA nor do I want to, particularly. But I do agree that if it is an exclusive organization, it should not be holding gatherings on public property.

The Liberated Ones']Don't you think it is reasonable for people to assume that because homosexuals and atheists are not allowed to join that the organisation is against them?

If you are not anti-homosexual how do you justify singling them out?
Atheists can join. Some of the best scouters I know are atheis

Oh my GOD (Greater Orlando Daschund)! You mean that Gays might think about killing themselves?! I mean, no one has ever picked up a knife and thought about which vein to go for in the entire history of humanity!
Obviously those numbers are to high, I'll bet that those attempts aren't even really suicide attempts. I bet that the boy scouts are doing it, but everyone is to afraid to stick it to some 10 year olds camping in the woods, so they cover it up by saying "suicide attempt."
If gay men are too GOD(the daschund again)damn pathetic to survive contact with themselves everyone else needs to pay! I want boyscouts, girlscouts, and Brad Pitt (because he played Boy Scout in Spy Games) immediately imprisoned until every single gay man in the world has been freed from any desire to die.
As long as one Homosexual Citizen of the World harbors thoughts of suicide, the Scouts may not rest from working in the salt mines.
Stop doing that while I'm drinking my diet pepsi ffs!

The Guardian, an English newspaper reported on a study by Dr Ian Rivers, a senior lecturer in social psychology at York, St John College in England. He suggests that there could be as many as 46,000 young people being bullied for their sexual orientation in British secondary schools. Any child who does not conform to the norms current in their school can find themselves described as gay or lesbian, regardless of whether they are or not. So the boy who is not keen on football can be tarred, as can the girl who is not interested in make-up. Rivers has looked at the effects of homophobic bullying on young gays and lesbians and found that more than half considered suicide because of aggression at school, and that 40% of this group had actually tried to kill themselves; three-quarters of these had tried to kill themselves more than once.

There is nothing against homosexuals as members, only as leaders las I checked. And for once president Bush said something I agree with in that statement, but the BSA encomposes so many beliefs, and so many people that that could mean anything. Look at the Oath and Law, that is what we teach, and try to live by (although the upper beucracy sometimes struggles with the idea). But hold on to, and stand up for what you belive in, whatever it is. I do agree with that. I would also like to add my voice to the call of support for Katrina and Rita victims. Even if you can't get up go (not many of us can) drop a quarter in a donation bin, or gather needed materials (eagle project :eek: ). And the BSA does catch a lot of flack, but not for what we stand up for as much as what we claim to and don't. So if you claim yourself as part of the BSA, please live it.

-Written by an employee of the BSA, and avid scouter

I thought it was members to due to "morally straight"? That's how I've heard it interpreted.

Megaloria, I agree. And there is actually less 'God' than it seems, that's just others singling out. We use 'nondenominational' stuff. Stuff that applies to everyone. But thanx for your insight.

Hey I was a Scout (a loong time ago) - but not in the United States. The first I ever heard of the "Boy Scouts of America" as opposed to organizations affiliated with Scouts International, the legacy of Lord Baden-Powell, was a story told to me by one of my father's co-workers, who'd had to relocate to New Jersey for a year due to work, and so naturally enough, he'd tried smoothing out the transition for his son by continuing both their participation in Scouting.

Well, they were told they couldn't simply join as members of Scouts International - they had to apply to join, as the BSA wasn't affiliated. When they looked over the application and talked it out with the local BSA chapter, his son flat-out refused to be a part of this organization. Religion and politics have no place in real Scouting, and that wasn't lost on either father or son.

I don't claim to understand the BSA nor do I want to, particularly. But I do agree that if it is an exclusive organization, it should not be holding gatherings on public property.

BSA is associated with Scouts International, now called the International Brotherhood of Scouting. Politics have no official place in scouting. Some units promote certian policies, but the organization on a whole does not side itself. It is tradition for the President, regardless of party to participate in some BSA functions. Atheists can join, as can gays(they just can't be leaders). And in a true venture crew, so can girls. The camp I work for even runs girls camp for roughly half of the season.

Atheists can join. Some of the best scouters I know are atheis

If they can...how do they fullfill "Duty to God"? Or "To God [and my country]"?

And Fiddle., I assume that was sarcasm, right? My thoughts exactly.

I thought it was members to due to "morally straight"? That's how I've heard it interpreted.

Megaloria, I agree. And there is actually less 'God' than it seems, that's just others singling out. We use 'nondenominational' stuff. Stuff that applies to everyone. But thanx for your insight.
Morally straight means different things to different people, and we ask people to stick up for their values.

I have to go for a while. I'll drop in again later. Also please note that these are my understandings of the rules, which could vary from council to council, or I could just be misrembering. I might even look them up (if I get bored).

so can girls.
Man, is it just me, or do Scout and Venturer girls totally rock? I remember one year down at camp Moosehorn in Maine, there was this fantastic chick I hung out with for a few days. we cooked steak on a stick and watched the bonfire from the top of a hill. Every girl should be as cool as she was.

Theres a lot of confusion about the stances of Boy Scouts of America. Not sure if it was posted yet but I didn't see it. All of their Legal FAQ's are here:
http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-113.htm

Does anyone know if they receive any tax money or other public funding?

BSA is associated with Scouts International, now called the International Brotherhood of Scouting. Politics have no official place in scouting. Some units promote certian policies, but the organization on a whole does not side itself. It is tradition for the President, regardless of party to participate in some BSA functions. Atheists can join, as can gays(they just can't be leaders). And in a true venture crew, so can girls. The camp I work for even runs girls camp for roughly half of the season.Interesting.

So in the Scout Oath what does an atheist say when he gets to the 'god'/'my god' part?

Also apart from religious reasons how do they justify the banning of gay leaders?

And if they need to use religious reasons they are still being anti-gay or anti-atheist.

*sigh*

I'm a Boy Scout currently working towards Eagle, and it disheartens me when I see people lumping us in with hate groups...

There are many positive things about Scouting; fellowship, leadership, responsibility...Hell, I met my best friend in Scouts.

And with that, I'm going to come out and say, yes, there are many things I'd like to see change, namely allowing gays and athiests in.

So please...please, for the love of God ease up...

That's all I need, or wish, to say...

Actually just found out about the tax dollars to this organization. That's bullshit. I'm paying for it but when I have a son (I'm going to buy him pink dresses), he can't join?

*sigh*

I'm a Boy Scout currently working towards Eagle, and it disheartens me when I see people lumping us in with hate groups...

There are many positive things about Scouting; fellowship, leadership, responsibility...Hell, I met my best friend in Scouts.

And with that, I'm going to come out and say, yes, there are many things I'd like to see change, namely allowing gays and athiests in.

So please...please, for the love of God ease up...

That's all I need, or wish, to say...

I'm gonna mostly agree. I really wouldn't mind gays coming in, but I would mind athiests because of the fact that we were founded with "Duty to God" in mind.

And so, Liberated Ones, I don't think athiests can join because of that. It's not pick and choose so that our values match yours.

Actually just found out about the tax dollars to this organization. That's bullshit. I'm paying for it but when I have a son (I'm going to buy him pink dresses), he can't join?

As far as I know, we don't receive tax money of any kind. The only questionable thing is the use of Fort A.P. Hill for the National Jamboree, however, we don't get use without giving anything in return. We help the Army with crowd control and emergency training situations. (40,000 people in one place, yeah, that's a crowd, and there were emergencies)

It's not pick and choose so that our values match yours.
I'm going to totally agree with that statement.
You can't pick and choose unless you want to be a private association.

"In court, the Boy Scouts have sought legal protection as a private "intimate association" that is exempt from anti-discrimination statutes and other laws which govern so-called public accommodations. Critics charge that the Scouts are neither personal nor private, but rather an organization which is open to the public and recruits a large membership by soliciting in public schools and other institutions. They also point out that for decades the BSA has enjoyed a special relationship with all levels of government, often receiving tax money, cost reductions when using public facilities such as parks and other "perks." " http://www.atheists.org/action/alert-28-may-2003.html

"The American Civil Liberties Union and the Tom Homann Law Association are demanding that the City of San Diego stop subsidizing the activities of the Boy Scouts as long as that organization persists in discriminating on the basis of religion and sexual orientation. In a letter delivered this morning, the two organizations demanded that the City Council and Mayor terminate the City's leases under which the Boy Scouts operate their headquarters in city-owned Balboa Park for $1 per year and receive rent-free use of facilities on city-owned property on Fiesta Island."
http://www.aclusandiego.org/boy_scouts/boyscoutsbalboa.htm



It is ridiculous that Boy Scouts of America picks and chooses whether it is private or public depending on whether or not they will benefit from it.

I'm going to totally agree with that statement.
You can't pick and choose unless you want to be a private association.

"In court, the Boy Scouts have sought legal protection as a private "intimate association" that is exempt from anti-discrimination statutes and other laws which govern so-called public accommodations. Critics charge that the Scouts are neither personal nor private, but rather an organization which is open to the public and recruits a large membership by soliciting in public schools and other institutions. They also point out that for decades the BSA has enjoyed a special relationship with all levels of government, often receiving tax money, cost reductions when using public facilities such as parks and other "perks." " http://www.atheists.org/action/alert-28-may-2003.html

"The American Civil Liberties Union and the Tom Homann Law Association are demanding that the City of San Diego stop subsidizing the activities of the Boy Scouts as long as that organization persists in discriminating on the basis of religion and sexual orientation. In a letter delivered this morning, the two organizations demanded that the City Council and Mayor terminate the City's leases under which the Boy Scouts operate their headquarters in city-owned Balboa Park for $1 per year and receive rent-free use of facilities on city-owned property on Fiesta Island."
http://www.aclusandiego.org/boy_scouts/boyscoutsbalboa.htm



It is ridiculous that Boy Scouts of America picks and chooses whether it is private or public depending on whether or not they will benefit from it.

This part isn't my battle. THIS part belongs to the leadership up top. If they want to stop accepting stuff from the public, or if the government stops it, that's fine, we'll find somewhere else. There's always plenty of private orginizations who are willing to donate.

I was a Boy Scout, and left approximately a year after I earned my 4th palm (1 Bronze and 1 Silver). At that time, I had approximately 47 merit badges, attended 2 national jamborees, and also went to the W.D. Boyce camp ground in Canada (I hate mosquitos, oh dear!).

I must say, out of every troop I have come into contact with - at least 2-3 members were homosexual, and practically everyone in the troop actively had some form of sexual interaction with eachother.

One of the assistant Scout Masters in my troop was gay, and kicked him out along with his son. This was about the time that I decided to quit my troop, because that was just bull. I can understand not letting in those that do not believe in God in, but gay people shouldn't be excluded.

This part isn't my battle. THIS part belongs to the leadership up top. If they want to stop accepting stuff from the public, or if the government stops it, that's fine, we'll find somewhere else. There's always plenty of private orginizations who are willing to donate.
Then it doesn't matter to me what they do. As long as it is kept private and do not interfere with public schooling and property.

I was a Boy Scout, and left approximately a year after I earned my 4th palm (1 Bronze and 1 Silver). At that time, I had approximately 47 merit badges, attended 2 national jamborees, and also went to the W.D. Boyce camp ground in Canada (I hate mosquitos, oh dear!).

I must say, out of every troop I have come into contact with - at least 2-3 members were homosexual, and practically everyone in the troop actively had some form of sexual interaction with eachother.

One of the assistant Scout Masters in my troop was gay, and kicked him out along with his son. This was about the time that I decided to quit my troop, because that was just bull. I can understand not letting in those that do not believe in God in, but gay people shouldn't be excluded.

I'm going to challenge your statement that practically everyone in those troops had some form of 'interaction'. I've met my fair share of troops too, and I've NEVER seen that before.

However, on a personal level I do believe that homosexuals should allow to be members. I'm oppossed to leadership, but not membership.

But troop-wide scale 'interaction'? I've never heard of that before...I really think that is a disgrace.

Then it doesn't matter to me what they do. As long as it is kept private and do not interfere with public schooling and property.

All right, now it seems we're getting somewhere effective. So is it that the BSA uses so much govt. and public facilites that gets everyone's tempers strung so high?

All right, now it seems we're getting somewhere effective. So is it that the BSA uses so much govt. and public facilites that gets everyone's tempers strung so high?
Exactly that. The idea that the public pays for something that, in effect, is exclusive is what has angered many people. Not saying that people would not still be angry at the homophobic and anti athiest stance of the association but they wouldn't be as terribly upset if they weren't paying for it.

You can challenge it all you want. Of the approximately 25 people in my troop, about 17 of them did stuff. And of the dozens upon dozens of troops I met in my many years in Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, it was similar. Sure, most are straight guys; but that doesn't mean that they did not 'mess around' with their mates, jacking off, sucking etc.

If you are not opposed to membership, why are you opposed to leadership?

See, now that's just the thing we DON'T need. I should also take this time to ask why so many people DO hate us. We haven't done anything to hurt anyone, quite the contrary actually. Anyone have any insight besides the ususal "anti-homosexual" arguments?

You knew quite well that if you asked someone how much twelve is and in asking told him beforehand, 'See to it you don't tell me, you human being, that it is two times six, or three times four, or six times two, or four times three; I won't accept such nonsense from you'--it was plain to you, I suppose, that no one would answer a man who asks in this way. And if he asked, 'What do you mean? Shall I answer none of those you mentioned before? Even if it happens to be one of these, shall I say something other than the truth, you surprising man? Or what do you mean?'--what would you say to him in response?

The "usual" argument regarding the Boy Scouts' professed narrowmindedness when it comes to homosexuality is, perhaps, all that I have.

But it is all that I need.

Try the Girl Scouts, I've heard nothing but great things about them as well.


The Girl Scouts don't deny gays or atheists access to their organization.

The Girl Scouts don't deny gays or atheists access to their organization.
That's because the Girl Scouts have a secret hit squad to "take care" of the incidences of "deviancy" that may crop up in the "Family Style Organization" for them. You have got to watch out for the Girl Scouts, especially if you fail to pay your cookie protection money, or fall on the wrong side of a council funding vote.
It is all very hush-hush, so keep it quiet and tell only your immediate family and/or mailman.

Hmm, being both a scout and a Civil Air Patrol cadet I would choose CAP over scouts any day.

I know that I and a couple of my friends here are in fact members of the Boy Scouts of America. Now, I would like to extend a quick message to others on this site, and other people here who believe in our values as well.

I have recently noticed that of late, there has been a lot of criticism of our organization and our beliefs because we support organizied religions and our banning of homosexuals from our ranks. Some of the criticism I've heard has been enough to make me sick. I know that there are some out there not as strong as I, so I'm going to use the only means of communicating my message here. I would like to follow President Bush's words at the 2005 National Jamboree in saying that we must all stand strong and hold fast our beliefs against those who would like to see them undone, and those that criticize without knowing or because it seems the 'popular' thing to do. I urge all of you reading not to listen to the nay-sayers and continue the tradition of nearly 100 years in America. Without holding fast to our traditions and morals, we will most certainly come undone.

Also, I must make a comment in regards to the recent Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. As Boy Scouts, all of us have a commitment to send what aid we can to those affected. So, when you get your opportunity, do so. To those of you who have been in the affected region or still are (get off the computer for one), I urge you to put your training to use and help those that you can. You were not taught everything so that it could rot away and be forgotten. Help all those around you who are in need.

[Now, for the disclaimers: Though it could seem like such to many, I'm not trying to flamebait or troll. If you think I am, then please let me know or take other action. Also, this message applies not only to the organization's ranks, but also to anyone who believes in its values and traditions. I had something I felt needed to be heard, and so I've said it and have no regrets. I hope some of you out there who are Boy Scouts have found this message useful or something like that.]

-Written by a Life Scout, working toward Eagle Rank.-


I am an Eagle Scout. I am not homosexual. I practice a religion.

I also belive the national organization and increasingly local organiztions are wrongly discriminating against homosexals. I support local councils such as Boston Minuteman Council and Old Colony Council who refuse to enforce the national councils policies in these regards.

Here's something the Boy Scouts of America need to learn HOW TO MAKE A GOD DAMN POLL!

I too am a Boy Scout and I have been in the program for almost 10 years, I'm currently working on my eagle project,I am a practicing Baptist and I too find it disheartening to see all this shit being piled on the BSA. Pity people cant just accept shit and move on....

It's not okay to be openly gay in the Boy Scouts. It's okay if you keep quiet about your tastes whether it's keeping kiddie porn on your office computer or if you have fun with Canteen Boy without telling anyone else about it.

Of course people can't accept the way it is and move on. I'm an Eagle scout and I can't accept it and move on. I love the boy scout program, but I hate the jerks at the top who are excluding people from it. It's not right. "Morally Straight" wasn't even meant to apply to gays, "straight" didn't mean "heterosexual" when the phrase "morally straight" was coined, because homosexuality wasn't an issue, much less an issue talked about, back then.

I also find it unfair that atheists can't participate, but you'd actually have to change the scout oath and law to let them in.

That's because the Girl Scouts have a secret hit squad to "take care" of the incidences of "deviancy" that may crop up in the "Family Style Organization" for them. You have got to watch out for the Girl Scouts, especially if you fail to pay your cookie protection money, or fall on the wrong side of a council funding vote.
It is all very hush-hush, so keep it quiet and tell only your immediate family and/or mailman.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Dude ... public forum .... PUBLIC forum! Crap ... now the brownies have to earn their Columbian Necktie badge.

*sigh* Nice knowin' ya.

On a serious note: My daughters are in Girl Scouts. I will never allow my son to be in Boy Scouts. I will never allow my children to be a part of any organization that is exclusive. Even our softball league, the opening day ceremonies included a "moment of silence" for those affected by the hurricanes and the speaker said "deity of your choice", not "God, the Father" or somesuch strangeness. I can not and will not abide exclusivity.

I'm going to open up a club called the Young Rangers of America. We will hunt, and fish, go camping, and have jamborees.

Blacks can be allowed in, but they can't be leaders. It's our right. We just don't feel that blacks can serve as responsible role-models for the youth of America. I mean, what if they teach our kids how to steal cars or something? Nope, can't take that risk. Only white leaders, as we know them to be more morally pure.

Also, only Scientologists can join. We were founded on the principles of scientology, as our oath says "We swear to Ron L. Hubbard, we shalt seek to better ourselves."

It's our right. Okay.

But here's the kicker - we will get to use government facilities, and get government funding.

...What? Why is everyone looking at me like that? Gosh, I hate all this "usual" BS about us being "anti-non scientologist" and "anti-black". People can join, they just have to swear to Ron L. Hubbard. And we're only ensuring that our kids get the right morals, nothing improper. We want them to grow up right. What's the big deal?

I'm going to open up a club called the Young Rangers of America. We will hunt, and fish, go camping, and have jamborees.

Blacks can be allowed in, but they can't be leaders. It's our right. We just don't feel that blacks can serve as responsible role-models for the youth of America. I mean, what if they teach our kids how to steal cars or something? Nope, can't take that risk. Only white leaders, as we know them to be more morally pure.

Sadly, and while I know you're using farse to make your point, there would be a market for such a club in the United States.

*hang his head in shame*

I'm going to open up a club called the Young Rangers of America. We will hunt, and fish, go camping, and have jamborees.

Blacks can be allowed in, but they can't be leaders. It's our right. We just don't feel that blacks can serve as responsible role-models for the youth of America. I mean, what if they teach our kids how to steal cars or something? Nope, can't take that risk. Only white leaders, as we know them to be more morally pure.

Also, only Scientologists can join. We were founded on the principles of scientology, as our oath says "We swear to Ron L. Hubbard, we shalt seek to better ourselves."

It's our right. Okay.

But here's the kicker - we will get to use government facilities, and get government funding.

...What? Why is everyone looking at me like that? Gosh, I hate all this "usual" BS about us being "anti-non scientologist" and "anti-black". People can join, they just have to swear to Ron L. Hubbard. And we're only ensuring that our kids get the right morals, nothing improper. We want them to grow up right. What's the big deal?

What if someone joins, becomes a Rangermaster, and then word gets out that he's secretly a High Priest of Xenu?

What if someone joins, becomes a Rangermaster, and then word gets out that he's secretly a High Priest of Xenu?

We punish them by making them watch Enterprise: Season Two on a continuing loop.

Either that, or we dramatically rip away thier merit badges and shout at them until they cry. We're not heartless or anything...

We punish them by making them watch Enterprise: Season Two on a continuing loop.

Either that, or we dramatically rip away thier merit badges and shout at them until they cry. We're not heartless or anything...

That'll bring Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the SPCA down on you.

^Which part? Enterprise: Season Two, or the horrible mental abuse?

^Which part? Enterprise: Season Two, or the horrible mental abuse?

Enterprise of course!! It's much worse than mental abuse, it's torture! Hell, shredded Abu Ghraib documents mentioned that the Iraqis were threatened with an Enterprise marathon. And you think those photos that got out were bad? You didn't want to see the one where England was in green makeup!

Heh. You have good taste in sci-fi... Enterprise, barring perhaps Season Three, was absolutely horrible.

We probably shouldn't be discussing the merits of Enterprise here though - supposedly, there's a serious debate going on... ;]

I am an Eagle scout and I agree with what is offered by the scouts.

However, the main council does have many problems and more then a few of us in this area have stopped being involved over issues. The main Council has many fundis on it now and they actions show it.

Our troop had no issues with gay scouts. We had them and never had problems with them. Our scout master basically told the main council to F off and pretty much declared the troop would fold if they tried anything. It also helped that a few sponcers who gave a great deal of money also suggested they look the other way. One of the gay scouts was his son.

I forgot the troop and what state it was in but they had a gay scout master. He was open about it. The families knew about it. They were fine about it. He was great with the kids and tought them many things. Well the main council found out about it and he had to go. The troop folded after that.

Somebody mentioned "morally straight" well what does that mean? I don't recall reading about having to be Christian morality.

Somebody talked about athiests. Well they can't be scouts. It was felt some form of Religion was a good thing and thats the way it is. It doesn't matter if you are buddist, muslim, christian, whatever.

You join an organization; you conform to their rules. The organization doesn't have to conform to yours.

Hmpf. My wife is a gold scout. I wonder if my daughter will get involved.

Now after all that. Should I mention the fact that Powell had a thing for young boys? He didn't attack any of them but he liked them.

The Scouts are good for many boys (and girls for that matter) Do they have problems? Sure. Do you abolish the idea because of a few old codgers? They will be replaced. They had a little wind taken out of their sails when that kiddy porn guy was nailed.

All totalitarian states have their youth groups like the Hitler Youth, the Pioneers, the Boy Scouts etc.All young boys in shorts.The Girls Scouts, much like the League of German Maidens who's motto was "Every girl belongs to us".The origin of the Boy Scouts goes back to a military training manual written by a English war hero Baden-Powell.Hmmmm...

Children are individuals but once they join these organizations they are no longer individuals they become one of the herd.I have raised three boys, none have ever belonged to any of these groups, they would survive quite well in the bush on their own and would help out anyone in need without being asked.They will never ever be going to far off lands to kill strangers for any corrupt corporate whore politicians. They will never have blood on their hands. How very very sad that all these organizations pretend to teach compassion and kindness to your fellow man yet they are conditioning these children for future killing, to become cannon fodder for the military industrial complex.

besides...those uniforms are creepy!
==================
I,TheUnWashed,promise to do my best
To do my duty to God and my country,
To help other people, and
To obey the Law of the Pack.

...but ma...I want tae be 'The Leader Of The Pack'....vrroom...vrrrooom!

The Scouts are good for many boys (and girls for that matter) Do they have problems? Sure. Do you abolish the idea because of a few old codgers? They will be replaced.

Hell no. What you do is change the organization.

Those "old codgers" can be overthrown easily, I guarantee it. Just take away their sour-apple mash.

The problem right now is that there are no Scouts willing to stand up and actually *do* something. Oh, sure, they'll post anonymously on the internet, but everyone knows that the internet is the last thing anyone pays attention to.

If you're a high ranking scout, then effect change. Do it physically and vehemently. Yes, the Scouts are good for boys, but until the Scouts figure out that Gays aren't necessarily pedophiles and that Atheists aren't trying to usurp America for Communist causes, then I will never let my son be a Boy Scout.

You join an organization; you conform to their rules. The organization doesn't have to conform to yours.


Yes, but the problem is, you get to use government facilities, and get government funding.

My Young Rangers of America would never get government funding, because everyone recognizes that it would be a discriminatory organization. It doesn't matter if your unit decides to go rogue and ignore the orders from above, the fact remains that the officially stated policy of the organization is discriminatory.

Now, if the Boyscouts of America can get government funding and use government facilities, how come the Young Rangers of America can't?

Hell no. What you do is change the organization.

Those "old codgers" can be overthrown easily, I guarantee it. Just take away their sour-apple mash.

The problem right now is that there are no Scouts willing to stand up and actually *do* something. Oh, sure, they'll post anonymously on the internet, but everyone knows that the internet is the last thing anyone pays attention to.

If you're a high ranking scout, then effect change. Do it physically and vehemently. Yes, the Scouts are good for boys, but until the Scouts figure out that Gays aren't necessarily pedophiles and that Atheists aren't trying to usurp America for Communist causes, then I will never let my son be a Boy Scout.

But there are scouts, including Eagles, who oppose national organization policy:

Eagle Scouts sending back their Eagle medals in shame
http://www.scoutingforall.org/eaglebadge.shtml

Others:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/071800-02.htm
http://www.uua.org/news/scouts/index.html

And I must say I have not been at all active in many years. I have grown disgusted. I am very tempted to send my Eagle Medal back in protest....

Hell no. What you do is change the organization.

Those "old codgers" can be overthrown easily, I guarantee it. Just take away their sour-apple mash.

The problem right now is that there are no Scouts willing to stand up and actually *do* something. Oh, sure, they'll post anonymously on the internet, but everyone knows that the internet is the last thing anyone pays attention to.

If you're a high ranking scout, then effect change. Do it physically and vehemently. Yes, the Scouts are good for boys, but until the Scouts figure out that Gays aren't necessarily pedophiles and that Atheists aren't trying to usurp America for Communist causes, then I will never let my son be a Boy Scout.


Some of it obviously has to do with pedophile lawsuits (there was a major one in St. Louis) involving Scout leaders.

While I don't believe that homosexuality has anything to do with pedophilia, I'm not one who would risk that issue with a civil jury.

Unlike the old days, Scout leaders now all get a background check, just in case. We live in a different world today - one without trust.

That about sums it up. You're a bunch of bigots. Get off of public property.

Interesting fact: Gay males have a 40% suicide attempt rate and a 70% suidical thought rate. Wonder why?

So much for free speech!

That about sums it up. You're a bunch of bigots. Get off of public property.

Interesting fact: Gay males have a 40% suicide attempt rate and a 70% suidical thought rate. Wonder why?

1. It's "Public Property" for a reason. Anyone can use it.
2. Gee, I don't see Boy Scouts chasing them around yelling "Die!". What could be the reason then?

<snip>As a former Boy Scout and currently a Scouter I'd like to ask you why religion "values" are so much more important than environmental "values" to you.
The boy scouts shouldn't be about politics, they should be about the out of doors, responsibility, and leadership skills. "A scout is reverent" refers to a respectful attitude towards other peoples beliefs to me.
And please don't consider the BSA above criticism. There's plenty stuff that goes wrong.

Unlike the old days, Scout leaders now all get a background check, just in case. We live in a different world today - one without trust.


I recently joined as a den leader specifically for this reason. I dont trust anyone with my 6 yr old son yet. I was participating in every scout function anyway, so I might as well wear the uniform. I've been photographed and fingerprinted. I filled out a very detailed application. they even have my auto insurance info,which already conformed with their requirements as there will come a time that I transport scouts in one of my personally owned vehicles.

Our pack is chartered through our Catholic Church. Members of our pack must be members of the congregation. Our den and pack meetings are on church property.

I dont care if people are offended or dont like scout values or customs. Dont put your kids in scouts-raise them to complain about everything and look for trouble where there is none. Better yet, start your own organizations that mandate that everyone be as diverse as possible. They'll be banging their open minds against the wall for the rest of their lives.

The scouts suit me fine just the way they are. And they've been successfully defending themselves from the hordes for a long time.

The Liberated Ones']I was a Scout while growing up, and it was really important to me. I had a great deal of fun and learned a lot about teamwork and the outdoors.

However I can no longer fully support the organisation.

Does Scouts teach and represent many good and noble qualities? Certainly, but to me this just highlights their barbaric insistence on banning atheists and homosexuals.

Scouts are good people and should know better.

(Of course this is just my opinion).our troop did not ban Atheists (our leader was Athiest). as for Homosexuals... well, we didn't ask, we didn't seek them out, we just didn't care to find out.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Dude ... public forum .... PUBLIC forum! Crap ... now the brownies have to earn their Columbian Necktie badge.

*sigh* Nice knowin' ya.
OK, see you later!
Or maybe that was supposed to sound more permanent? Anyway, I always carry a bag full of Barbies and My Little Pony sets, if I see a KGSB squad moving in I throw my diversions one way and run t'other. For wearers of that all important "Hit and Run Badge" I'd say that they can't throw those cookies very accurately.
On a serious note: My daughters are in Girl Scouts. I will never allow my son to be in Boy Scouts. I will never allow my children to be a part of any organization that is exclusive..
Then why hasn't your son joined the girl scouts? I mean, if they aren't exclusive then they should welcome a male member. After all, what is going to happen? A suprisingly small number of males are heterosexual rapists, so I'm pretty sure that everyone will be nice and safe.
Unless, of course, you are some sort of bigot who hates someone because of the way they were born. You don't want to be a bigot, do you?

Unless, of course, you are some sort of bigot who hates someone because of the way they were born. You don't want to be a bigot, do you?

In the current litigious climate of the US, if you're running an organization that cares for children, your insurance company (yes, you'll need insurance) will dictate what kind of people you can put in positions of care and authority in your organization.

Or, you can do without insurance, and take your chances. Practically no one does this.

Insurance companies use actuarial data to define risk. It's the law. Not that homosexuals are pedophiles, but that homosexuals who are accused of pedophilia lose lawsuits - which costs the insurance company lots of money.

You don't have to be a bigot - you only have to get insurance, and that means complying with the provisions of the policy.

Quick question: What the hell does "Are you/fellings toward the Boy Scouts" mean?

Then why hasn't your son joined the girl scouts? I mean, if they aren't exclusive then they should welcome a male member. After all, what is going to happen? A suprisingly small number of males are heterosexual rapists, so I'm pretty sure that everyone will be nice and safe.
Unless, of course, you are some sort of bigot who hates someone because of the way they were born. You don't want to be a bigot, do you?
interesting point. why not create the "Scouts" and have both girls and boys in it. in this day and age, you can teach girls camping and wilderness skills as well as boys (whatever they teach in Girl Scouts) both will sell cookies and go on Jamborees.

and both sides learn how to cooperate and treat the other sex with respect.

true equality and choice of leaning experiences for both sexes.

You don't have to be a bigot - you only have to get insurance, and that means complying with the provisions of the policy.
I was being, you know, sarcastic. Turning the point around, and looking at a different angle. If A=B, then B=A, sort of thing.
Now everyone is analyzing my destructive intent from a constructive angle, and it makes me feel like I've added something to the argument.
Now I just feel . . . dirty.

I was being, you know, sarcastic. Turning the point around, and looking at a different angle. If A=B, then B=A, sort of thing.
Now everyone is analyzing my destructive intent from a constructive angle, and it makes me feel like I've added something to the argument.
Now I just feel . . . dirty.*gives reassuring pat on back*

Man, is it just me, or do Scout and Venturer girls totally rock? I remember one year down at camp Moosehorn in Maine, there was this fantastic chick I hung out with for a few days. we cooked steak on a stick and watched the bonfire from the top of a hill. Every girl should be as cool as she was.
The women are indeed excellent. I dated one this summer at work. And all the girls were wicked cool.

interesting point. why not create the "Scouts" and have both girls and boys in it. in this day and age, you can teach girls camping and wilderness skills as well as boys (whatever they teach in Girl Scouts) both will sell cookies and go on Jamborees.

and both sides learn how to cooperate and treat the other sex with respect.

true equality and choice of leaning experiences for both sexes.
yeah that's called campfire (http://www.campfire.org/)
that's what I was in as a child.

My kid is also in a co-ed group with AWANAS (http://www.awana.org/) but with all the crap the Boy Scouts are getting here you all probably really wouldn't like them....

yeah that's called campfire (http://www.campfire.org/)
that's what I was in as a child.

My kid is also in a co-ed group with AWANAS (http://www.awana.org/) but with all the crap the Boy Scouts are getting here you all probably really wouldn't like them....

I've met people who had their first sexual experience in AWANAS. Not with adults - just two teenage kids getting together.

I've done the Royal Rangers thing, but it was a little dull for my taste. I run a Cub Scout troop, but I go WAY beyond the book.

You would think that parents would complain about the paramilitary aspect that I flavor it with, but the parents and the boys all seem to like it.

I've met people who had their first sexual experience in AWANAS. Not with adults - just two teenage kids getting together.

I've done the Royal Rangers thing, but it was a little dull for my taste. I run a Cub Scout troop, but I go WAY beyond the book.

You would think that parents would complain about the paramilitary aspect that I flavor it with, but the parents and the boys all seem to like it.
yeah. I am my kids cubbie leader in AWANAS and am the secretary too, so I can keep an eye on her. (she is only 4 right now so no big deal yet)

yeah that's called campfire (http://www.campfire.org/)
that's what I was in as a child.

My kid is also in a co-ed group with AWANAS (http://www.awana.org/) but with all the crap the Boy Scouts are getting here you all probably really wouldn't like them....yeah, And I realized (after hitting post) that there are also the Boys and Girls club of America. but still, for helping their image, the BSA/GSA might wanna think about it.

yeah, And I realized (after hitting post) that there are also the Boys and Girls club of America. but still, for helping their image, the BSA/GSA might wanna think about it.
yeah I was reading up on campfire and they are really inclusive they even say on thier website that they welcom anyone regardless of race, sexual orientation and everything.

I was in campfire and so I know they Rock!! I learned a lot of stuff and the candy we sold was awesome. People who have problems with BSA/GSA should look into it. I will probably sign my girls up for campfire when they get bored with AWANAS or maybe in addition to it. :D

I am all for the combined thing. I was a GS for a good many years, but ended up quitting because my troop's idea of doing something was going shopping at the mall. :rolleyes:

BSA has some issues, and I would much rather see them either get rid of the homosexual/athiest exclusion policies, or stop using tax money and such, but hell, when I was a kid, I would have loved to have been able to be a boy scout instead of a girl scout. BS wasn't a complete waste of time.

Should have included member of scouts outside america.which i be.i think im technically a venturer,but for all intents and purposes im a leader

Pardon me. The organization's leaders are a bunch of bigots. Get off public property. Better?
Several have echoed the sentiment of "get off public property". Who is welcome on public property? And what public property are the scouts on?

former Life scout.

Well, in three pages of material, I've seen some good stuff. So, it seems that the real problem is with the organization at the national level. Heh, I guess I have to admit that there are too many fundies involved up there. While I do believe with you all now on allowing in homosexuals as members (getting a better perspective on 'morally straight' not equalling just for Christians), I still think that athiests shouldn't be allowed since from the start it has been 'a Scout is Reverent'. I saw this mentioned, so no, this does not mean respect toward other's beliefs (though that is a PART), it means that a Scout is loyal to his God/religious supreme. I said it once, you can't change an organizations beliefs to fit yours.

So, now I ask those reading who find a problem with us: Why don't you start saying you hate/disagree with our national council instead of the BSA in general? I mean, hating us cause of our leadership is like hating America because of Bush, which is all stereotyping, and I really hate that.

Something else I saw that I kinda liked. I think it is a bet silly that the BSA and GSA are split. You're right, I do think it's about time we joined. However, I think they were separate because of A.) the times they were formed, and B.) lack of trust on either side for the others to keep their hands to themselves.

Thanx for the discussions so far. I'm intressted in seeing what else people have.

Several have echoed the sentiment of "get off public property". Who is welcome on public property? And what public property are the scouts on?

former Life scout.
Army bases, for one.

Army bases, for one.

Fort A.P. Hill, Virginia? I've already said that we repay them by allowing them training for crowd-control and emergency situations. It is also a valuable recruitment time for all branches of the armed services. If you were down there last summer, you'd have seen what I mean. They kept their helicopters in the air all day, and had various other training situations at hand for them with our being down there. Face it, there's no other training for those sorts of things like the real deal...40,000 people in one area. It's not like we're not repaying them for what they've given us. And besides, most of our supplies came from external private sources anyway.

Anyway, despite having been a boy scout, who earned the rank of Eagle Scout, I continue to be against the national council's homophobic policies. In addition, I hold extremely left-wing political views on just about all the major issues of our day.

The national council does not speak for me.

I think this sums up my feelings on the matter, as a left leaning Eagle Scout, though I would like to point out that the Scouts were founded by an Englishman and that it is an international organisation, so it is not American options are a little inaccurate.

The Liberated Ones']Interesting.

So in the Scout Oath what does an atheist say when he gets to the 'god'/'my god' part?

Also apart from religious reasons how do they justify the banning of gay leaders?

And if they need to use religious reasons they are still being anti-gay or anti-atheist.

I just mumble over that part.

Churches give us our funding, and lend us their property to hold meetings on. If we officially allowed gays or atheists to join, we'd lose all that.

At the camps, there are non-denominational church meetings, but the strange thing is that they always work in Jesus and other biblical figures. It's so obviously biased towards Christianity that it's not even funny.

Then why hasn't your son joined the girl scouts?

He's too young. Yes, they would take him and, yes, they've asked if I'll be a troop leader. I'm considering it.

I just mumble over that part.

Churches give us our funding, and lend us their property to hold meetings on. If we officially allowed gays or atheists to join, we'd lose all that.

At the camps, there are non-denominational church meetings, but the strange thing is that they always work in Jesus and other biblical figures. It's so obviously biased towards Christianity that it's not even funny.

I agree about the churches part. And you're right, I have seen that they somehow mangage throw in Christianity. Despite being Christian and loving my religion very much, I think that is wrong because they're infringing on others' beliefs.

He's too young. Yes, they would take him and, yes, they've asked if I'll be a troop leader. I'm considering it.

I'll say go for it then. Just one word of warning, he will have the potential to receive some very heavy ridicule by friends/peers when they find out he's in Girl Scouts. I don't mean this personally, I don't think it's right. However, there are mean people out there who will take advantage of him and the decision.

I'll say go for it then. Just one word of warning, he will have the potential to receive some very heavy ridicule by friends/peers when they find out he's in Girl Scouts. I don't mean this personally, I don't think it's right. However, there are mean people out there who will take advantage of him and the decision.

Dude ... his name's Hannibal (after Barca, not Lector) ... he'll be ridiculed no matter what we do. I figure when he's 5, I'll ask him if he wants to join. If he does, cool. If not, whatev. If he joins at 5 and wants to drop at 6, so be it.

Dude ... his name's Hannibal (after Barca, not Lector) ... he'll be ridiculed no matter what we do. I figure when he's 5, I'll ask him if he wants to join. If he does, cool. If not, whatev. If he joins at 5 and wants to drop at 6, so be it.

All right, just checking.

I just mumble over that part.

Churches give us our funding, and lend us their property to hold meetings on. If we officially allowed gays or atheists to join, we'd lose all that.

At the camps, there are non-denominational church meetings, but the strange thing is that they always work in Jesus and other biblical figures. It's so obviously biased towards Christianity that it's not even funny.

No church funded my troop, and we did not meet on any church's property. None of us ever went to the "non-denominational" services, either. We were sponsored by the local Elks' Lodge, which is basically a drinking club :D

The Psyker and Callisdrun: as fellow Eagles who also oppose the National Council's policies, what have you done to change them? I have yet to do anything, but this thread has shamed me. I'm preparing a letter and am considering sending in my medal with it.

Ever think that maybe there is a reason why those arguments keep popping up?


yea, because people like to make uneducated statements. the only way to really understand one thing is to dive in and experience what it has to offer.

as a fellow eagle scout, i support the original poster... keep the faith!!!

Pardon me. The organization's leaders are a bunch of bigots. Get off public property. Better?
no, that doesn't doesn't work either, but you are entitled to your opinion. which doesn't make you very special, because everyone has one. and give me some good reasons why they are bigots (feel free to use the " we pursecute against homosexuals" bit, i love that one).

Please. Your organization is offically anti-atheist and anti-homosexual. Get off of public lands. Ciao.
just out of curiosity... are a homosexual atheist who got kicked out of the boys scout? it just strikes me odd that you keep saying that. and by the ways public property can bee used as anyone may seem fit. that means organizations can use it to. personally i think you are a guy who likes to stirs the pot of political debate....like me.

I have a ton of friends who are in the Boy Scouts. Lol yes most of em are conservative, but they aren't the hateful fiends you make them out to be.

The Psyker and Callisdrun: as fellow Eagles who also oppose the National Council's policies, what have you done to change them? I have yet to do anything, but this thread has shamed me. I'm preparing a letter and am considering sending in my medal with it.

Write the letter, but don't send back your medal. That's just stupid. You worked to earn it, and don't let that work go to waste. If you didn't believe in the organization, you would've never joined. You can agree with the establishment, but not the leadership...I've seen a lot of that, and I think that's what's going on here. But if you return the medal, then you never really diserved it.

Thanks for your support Honeybrown and Super-Power. Most of the people I know are conservative too, but I also know a fair share of liberals.

This is what Tom Lehrer sang about the Boy Scouts of America:

Be prepared! That's the Boy Scouts' marching song,
Be prepared! As through Life you march along.
Be prepared to hold your liquor pretty well.
Don't write naughty words on walls if you can't spell.

Be prepared! To hide that pack of cigarettes,
Don't make book if you cannot cover bets.
Keep those reefers hidden where you're sure that they will not be found,
And be careful not to smoke them when the scoutmaster's around,
For he only will insist that they be shared.
Be prepared!

Be prepared! That's the Boy Scout's solemn creed,
Be prepared! And be clean in word and deed.
Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice,
Unless you get a good percentage of hjer price.

Be prepared! And be careful not to do
Your good deeds when there's no one watching you.
If you're looking for adventure of a new and different kind,
And you come across a Girl Scout who is similarly inclined,
Don't be nervous, don't be flustered, don't be scared.
Be prepared!

I know that I and a couple of my friends here are in fact members of the Boy Scouts of America. Now, I would like to extend a quick message to others on this site, and other people here who believe in our values as well.

I have recently noticed that of late, there has been a lot of criticism of our organization and our beliefs because we support organizied religions and our banning of homosexuals from our ranks. Some of the criticism I've heard has been enough to make me sick. I know that there are some out there not as strong as I, so I'm going to use the only means of communicating my message here. I would like to follow President Bush's words at the 2005 National Jamboree in saying that we must all stand strong and hold fast our beliefs against those who would like to see them undone, and those that criticize without knowing or because it seems the 'popular' thing to do. I urge all of you reading not to listen to the nay-sayers and continue the tradition of nearly 100 years in America. Without holding fast to our traditions and morals, we will most certainly come undone.

Also, I must make a comment in regards to the recent Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. As Boy Scouts, all of us have a commitment to send what aid we can to those affected. So, when you get your opportunity, do so. To those of you who have been in the affected region or still are (get off the computer for one), I urge you to put your training to use and help those that you can. You were not taught everything so that it could rot away and be forgotten. Help all those around you who are in need.

[Now, for the disclaimers: Though it could seem like such to many, I'm not trying to flamebait or troll. If you think I am, then please let me know or take other action. Also, this message applies not only to the organization's ranks, but also to anyone who believes in its values and traditions. I had something I felt needed to be heard, and so I've said it and have no regrets. I hope some of you out there who are Boy Scouts have found this message useful or something like that.]

-Written by a Life Scout, working toward Eagle Rank.-

It's from the neo-liberal view whereby all thought and expression is confined to "same-thinking" individuals as themselves; and any other position is banned from public life.... Neo-liberals (such as CSW), are anything but actually "liberal"... They, in reality, have far more in common with the "Moral Majority" and "Christian Coalition" functionality, than they do with actually expressing and operating within truely "liberal" ideology (whereby all opinions are considered equally valid in expression, and equally allowable publically)... The fact that their "ideal" is "I hate discrimination so much, I will discriminate against anyone who discriminates" - shows them for what they actually are.

I may not agree with the Aryan Nation, the KKK, the NOI, and many other groups... But I would never go to the extent of barring them the same freedoms given to any other group. The same root principle applies to the Boy Scouts, Church groups (whether I agree with them or not).... My root principle (being actual liberality... and not false neo-liberality), is that if I were to submit to, or endorse the discrimination of groups which may not adhere to my ideologies; then it creates the precedence whereby ANY ideology may be restricted at the hands of government (including my own)...

The Boy Scouts do not agree with homosexuality, and consider it an immoral act... They do not HATE homosexuals... CSW is far more guilty of preaching "hate" than the Boy Scouts are; so it is funny (in a sad way) that CSW's ideology is preaching acceptance through discrimintory action.

Now, this is not to say I think CSW does not have the right to his opinion... Just that his opinion is itself, hatefull and discriminitory... and therefore hypocritical. He can preach it all he likes... But I stack it with KKK, Aryan Nation, NOI and all other disciminitory, non-liberal, and hatefull ideologies...

The Boy Scouts do not agree with homosexuality, and consider it an immoral act... They do not HATE homosexuals..

Speaking only of the Main council, I kind of think they do HATE homosexuals.

As mentioned a troop had a gay scoutmaster. The kids knew it. The parents knew it and more importantly were ok about it.

The main council found out and ordered him out. The parents protested and the main council basically said tough.

The troop folded right after that.

Speaking only of the Main council, I kind of think they do HATE homosexuals.

As mentioned a troop had a gay scoutmaster. The kids knew it. The parents knew it and more importantly were ok about it.

The main council found out and ordered him out. The parents protested and the main council basically said tough.

The troop folded right after that.

There is a difference between "hate of someone" and non-supportive, or in oposition to a persons lifestyle.

For example, if one of our ruling elders were to be found a homosexual, an adulterer, etc... They would be removed from their office, because their life-style and acts do not line up with the moral ideology of the organization (however, they would not be barred from the church)... There are many people who do things which I morally "hate"; that does not mean I "hate" the people themselves....

Were someone to nulify the position of an openly homosexual mayor, congressman, etc. I would oppose it to the absolute extent... Whereas I would laud the same towards an act of appointment and ordination to the Session.... The same applies to the BSA, or any other organization as such.

Thank you for your views, Tekania. I agree with what you are saying 100%. I've been looking for a way to express them in words for a while, and you've really helped me.