NationStates Jolt Archive

This question occurred to me recently. In case you aren't aware, the Special Olympics are basically just like the Olympics for mentally-challenged people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Olympics

No one would support the idea of a child olympics or a teenage olympics because, obviously, people would be forcing them to compete and young people shouldn't be subject to such strenuous athletic competition. Even dog-racing and horse-racing is considered immoral by many people, because of an infringement on animal rights. Not that I'm saying mentally-challenged people are animals (we're all animals, actually), but logically, the special olympics are closer to dog-racing than the normal olympics, because the mentally-challenged don't really have much of a choice. I mean, you can't really ASK THEM if they want to be in the special olympics. You could ask them, "Are you gay?" and they'd say, "Uhhhhhh... OK!!!!" You know what I mean? Therefore, all you can do is just force them to, train them, and condition them. Is that right?

Even people who engage in the Olympics voluntarily often have really nasty, brutal, and cruel trainers... I mean, there have been stories about this on gymnastics and ice skating trainers, with young girls. With American football and basketball, coaches are certainly rather nasty too.

So... Is it right to subject mentally-challenged kids to this? I mean, you could say, "Oh, it gives them pride," but I've known a lot of mentally-challenged kids because I went to an equal-opportunity high school in a heavily-populated area. And most mentally-challenged people have little to no concept of pride or dignity. There was a mentally challenged kid in my school who, when he went to the urinal, would drop his pants and underwear completely to the floor, peeing there with his ass hanging out for everyone to see (instead of just opening his fly). He also used to pick his nose, then wipe gigantic boogers on his coat, walking around, not noticing or caring.

Now... Being that he clearly just doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't really all that aware of what's going on, how can anyone claim that mentally challenged kids can perceive something as intellectual as pride from winning a contest?

I mean, there was one mentally-challenged guy in our school who was actually fairly conscious. He wasn't really outright retarded, really. I mean, if you didn't know any better, you'd just think that he was normal, but really, really stupid. But out of like a dozen or so mentally-challenged kids in our school, he was the only one that you could actually have a logical conversation with. Even then, though, people had a habit of falsely telling him that others made fun of his mom (to encourage him to go be violent with him) or paying him quarters to go hit someone, and he'd often do it. So, once again, even then... he still wasn't really conscious enough to make decisions for himself.

No one would support the idea of a child olympics or a teenage olympics because, obviously, people would be forcing them to compete and young people shouldn't be subject to such strenuous athletic competition.But many young people do compete in althletic tournaments from a very early age.

the special olympics are closer to dog-racing than the normal olympics, because the mentally-challenged don't really have much of a choice. I mean, you can't really ASK THEM if they want to be in the special olympics. I really disagree. I know many mentally challenged people, and work closely with some of them... Trust me, you can't make them do anything that they don't want to.

You could ask them, "Are you gay?" and they'd say, "Uhhhhhh... OK!!!!"the mentally disabled do have sex drives, and they know who they are attracted to.

You know what I mean? Therefore, all you can do is just force them to, train them, and condition them. Is that right?In most cases, the training is nowhere near as demanding as it is in other athletic competition.

And most mentally-challenged people have little to no concept of pride or dignity.That is simply not true.

[There was a mentally challenged kid in my school who, when he went to the urinal, would drop his pants and underwear completely to the floor, peeing there with his ass hanging out for everyone to see (instead of just opening his fly). He also used to pick his nose, then wipe gigantic boogers on his coat, walking around, not noticing or caring.Many mentally disabled people are not as self-conscious because they cannot see themselves as others must see them. That does not mean that they cannot be made to feel proud of their acheivements, or that they do not benifit from being instilled with a sense of pride.

Now... Being that he clearly just doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't really all that aware of what's going on, how can anyone claim that mentally challenged kids can perceive something as intellectual as pride from winning a contest?I know kids who have competed in the special olympics, and they get excited about it, both before the games and after, even if they did not win. Many of them see it more as getting to play games than than your average athlete sees competitions like this.

I mean, there was one mentally-challenged guy in our school who was actually fairly conscious. He wasn't really outright retarded, really. I mean, if you didn't know any better, you'd just think that he was normal, but really, really stupid. But out of like a dozen or so mentally-challenged kids in our school, he was the only one that you could actually have a logical conversation with. Even then, though, people had a habit of falsely telling him that others made fun of his mom (to encourage him to go be violent with him) or paying him quarters to go hit someone, and he'd often do it. So, once again, even then... he still wasn't really conscious enough to make decisions for himself.That is the most upsetting thing that I have heard in a long, long time. The fact that he was willing to hit people for quarters likely stemmed from his ignorance of the true value of money, or his desire to impress his classmates and feel like one of the guys.

The Special Olympics are in no way immoral; they are put on for the sake of the participants, and no one is benifiting at the expense of the disabled competitors.
And your poll makes no sense.

What she said. ^^^^

It all depends on your point of view. I would compare the special olympics to a nudist colony. For the participants, it's a wonderful, positive experience. It's the voyeurs that turn it into something sick and demented.

Well you are seriously generalizing all challenged individuals. That poor child most likely had very little intervention or help so he had no idea how to react in the mainstream. Rather than watch him you could have gotten him some assistance or helped him. But most challenged individuals do have meaningful lives and want to compete in sports and be educated and go on to have families and be part of the community. I see many down syndrome folks and they are very much socialized and participate meaningfully due to early education and opportunites they are now given by folks who see their potential and not their disabilites..what is immoral is taking away their liberties and choices.

No one would support the idea of a child olympics or a teenage olympics because, obviously, people would be forcing them to compete and young people shouldn't be subject to such strenuous athletic competition.

Oh really? Then how do you explain the Little League World Series that was broadcast on tv less than a month ago? Or the child athletes who compete at the olympic level in sports such as gymnastics?

Its a big assumption to assume that they are forced. I work with many children and most of them do competitive sports because they love sports and they love the competition. No one has to force them. In fact, to get them to stop playing sports you would have to force them. They would cry and protest and plead with you to let them play. Assuming that children or mentally handicapped people have to be forced is a huge assumption.


because the mentally-challenged don't really have much of a choice. I mean, you can't really ASK THEM if they want to be in the special olympics. You could ask them, "Are you gay?" and they'd say, "Uhhhhhh... OK!!!!" You know what I mean? Therefore, all you can do is just force them to, train them, and condition them. Is that right?

That is incorrect. You cannot force a mentally handicapped person to do anything. Just try and you'll see what I mean. If they dont want to do it they wont.

You are also failing to consider that there are many levels of mental handicap. Some are so mentally retarded that it would be impossible for them to participate in sports. Others are only mildly retarded and can easily participate in a sport they enjoy. There are many levels and it is typically those who are at the higher levels who participate in the special olympics. Many mentally retarded individuals can hold a job and live with minimal supervision. Others are so severely retarded that they will forever need to be taken care of by others and cant be expected to do anything on their own.


Even people who engage in the Olympics voluntarily often have really nasty, brutal, and cruel trainers... I mean, there have been stories about this on gymnastics and ice skating trainers, with young girls. With American football and basketball, coaches are certainly rather nasty too.

The special olympics are much better about this than the standard olympics. The focus is more on having fun.


So... Is it right to subject mentally-challenged kids to this?

It isnt right to subject anyone to anything. But if they are interested in sports, then allowing them to participate in such an event is a great thing. To prevent them from competing just because they have a mental handicap would be the real wrong.


I've known a lot of mentally-challenged kids because I went to an equal-opportunity high school in a heavily-populated area.


Therein lies the problem that pervades your entire post. You are relying on an unrepresentative convenience sample to draw conclusions about a much larger population. Your sample is obviously not representative thus you have an incomplete view of the subject you are trying to discuss.


And most mentally-challenged people have little to no concept of pride or dignity.

What can I say about this but "bullshit"? Even the severely mentally retarded people I have met had a concept of pride and dignity.


Now... Being that he clearly just doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't really all that aware of what's going on, how can anyone claim that mentally challenged kids can perceive something as intellectual as pride from winning a contest?

Here is a prime example of the flaw in your reasoning. "since one person I met was this way, how can you say that those people..." you are trying to draw conclusions about a much larger population based on observations of a very limited sample. Mentally challenged kids can percieve pride at winning a contest, why dont you watch the special olympics so you can see it for yourself?


I mean, there was one mentally-challenged guy in our school who was actually fairly conscious. He wasn't really outright retarded, really.
[yadda yadda yadda]


Same problem again.

As for your poll...WTF?! Your question and answer options dont make any sense. Its like asking:
"Is the sky blue or red?"
1. Yes
2. No
3. Unsure

Im beginning to understand why you went to a special school.

I find the question too bizarre to answer.

I don't think they're a good idea. im no expert, so im probably werong, but being mentally diablsed does not limit you phisically. A swimmer with this problem could easily beat a swimmer without it. it is not like the physicaly desbled olympics. It is just not allowing an athlete to go to the regualr olympics becasue of thier mental disaility.
And i have no idea about the poll

This question occurred to me recently. In case you aren't aware, the Special Olympics are basically just like the Olympics for mentally-challenged people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Olympics

No one would support the idea of a child olympics or a teenage olympics because, obviously, people would be forcing them to compete and young people shouldn't be subject to such strenuous athletic competition. Even dog-racing and horse-racing is considered immoral by many people, because of an infringement on animal rights. Not that I'm saying mentally-challenged people are animals (we're all animals, actually), but logically, the special olympics are closer to dog-racing than the normal olympics, because the mentally-challenged don't really have much of a choice. I mean, you can't really ASK THEM if they want to be in the special olympics. You could ask them, "Are you gay?" and they'd say, "Uhhhhhh... OK!!!!" You know what I mean? Therefore, all you can do is just force them to, train them, and condition them. Is that right?

Even people who engage in the Olympics voluntarily often have really nasty, brutal, and cruel trainers... I mean, there have been stories about this on gymnastics and ice skating trainers, with young girls. With American football and basketball, coaches are certainly rather nasty too.

So... Is it right to subject mentally-challenged kids to this? I mean, you could say, "Oh, it gives them pride," but I've known a lot of mentally-challenged kids because I went to an equal-opportunity high school in a heavily-populated area. And most mentally-challenged people have little to no concept of pride or dignity. There was a mentally challenged kid in my school who, when he went to the urinal, would drop his pants and underwear completely to the floor, peeing there with his ass hanging out for everyone to see (instead of just opening his fly). He also used to pick his nose, then wipe gigantic boogers on his coat, walking around, not noticing or caring.

Now... Being that he clearly just doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't really all that aware of what's going on, how can anyone claim that mentally challenged kids can perceive something as intellectual as pride from winning a contest?

I mean, there was one mentally-challenged guy in our school who was actually fairly conscious. He wasn't really outright retarded, really. I mean, if you didn't know any better, you'd just think that he was normal, but really, really stupid. But out of like a dozen or so mentally-challenged kids in our school, he was the only one that you could actually have a logical conversation with. Even then, though, people had a habit of falsely telling him that others made fun of his mom (to encourage him to go be violent with him) or paying him quarters to go hit someone, and he'd often do it. So, once again, even then... he still wasn't really conscious enough to make decisions for himself.


I feel the exact same way about Dogshows.

This question occurred to me recently. In case you aren't aware, the Special Olympics are basically just like the Olympics for mentally-challenged people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Olympics

No one would support the idea of a child olympics or a teenage olympics because, obviously, people would be forcing them to compete and young people shouldn't be subject to such strenuous athletic competition. Even dog-racing and horse-racing is considered immoral by many people, because of an infringement on animal rights. Not that I'm saying mentally-challenged people are animals (we're all animals, actually), but logically, the special olympics are closer to dog-racing than the normal olympics, because the mentally-challenged don't really have much of a choice. I mean, you can't really ASK THEM if they want to be in the special olympics. You could ask them, "Are you gay?" and they'd say, "Uhhhhhh... OK!!!!" You know what I mean? Therefore, all you can do is just force them to, train them, and condition them. Is that right?

Even people who engage in the Olympics voluntarily often have really nasty, brutal, and cruel trainers... I mean, there have been stories about this on gymnastics and ice skating trainers, with young girls. With American football and basketball, coaches are certainly rather nasty too.

So... Is it right to subject mentally-challenged kids to this? I mean, you could say, "Oh, it gives them pride," but I've known a lot of mentally-challenged kids because I went to an equal-opportunity high school in a heavily-populated area. And most mentally-challenged people have little to no concept of pride or dignity. There was a mentally challenged kid in my school who, when he went to the urinal, would drop his pants and underwear completely to the floor, peeing there with his ass hanging out for everyone to see (instead of just opening his fly). He also used to pick his nose, then wipe gigantic boogers on his coat, walking around, not noticing or caring.

Now... Being that he clearly just doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't really all that aware of what's going on, how can anyone claim that mentally challenged kids can perceive something as intellectual as pride from winning a contest?

I mean, there was one mentally-challenged guy in our school who was actually fairly conscious. He wasn't really outright retarded, really. I mean, if you didn't know any better, you'd just think that he was normal, but really, really stupid. But out of like a dozen or so mentally-challenged kids in our school, he was the only one that you could actually have a logical conversation with. Even then, though, people had a habit of falsely telling him that others made fun of his mom (to encourage him to go be violent with him) or paying him quarters to go hit someone, and he'd often do it. So, once again, even then... he still wasn't really conscious enough to make decisions for himself.

"So, once again, even then... he still wasn't really conscious enough to make decisions for himself."

That line there described every teenie bopper Ive ever seen heh.

Course Im biased. Ive hated teenagers even when i was one (at that time my youngest "friend" was in his 20's.

No one would support the idea of a child olympics or a teenage olympics because, obviously, people would be forcing them to compete and young people shouldn't be subject to such strenuous athletic competition.German students will attempt to convince their teachers of this every year that they have to participate in the Bundesjugendspiele (Federal youth games).

German students will attempt to convince their teachers of this every year that they have to participate in the Bundesjugendspiele (Federal youth games).
hehe! ....And they're quite successful at it, too, from what i hear ;)

hehe! ....And they're quite successful at it, too, from what i hear ;)That never worked at my school :(

i belive Oxwana summed up a large number of things i disagree with however i disagree in Pitting people with disablitys against each other for our own amusement.

Weither they are aware of their presance, i donot care.
I feel that treating people as animals for amusement is worse than treating pets as your own children.

There's nothing intrinsically immoral about the Special Olympics. Your objections--cruel trainers, involuntary participation--are immoral, but that in no way reflects on the Special Olympics.

No. The special Olympics are neither moral nor immoral.

i belive Oxwana summed up a large number of things i disagree with however i disagree in Pitting people with disablitys against each other for our own amusement.

Weither they are aware of their presance, i donot care.
I feel that treating people as animals for amusement is worse than treating pets as your own children.When's the last time you watched special olympics for your own amusement? Also, I doubt that anyone participates in Special Olympics if they don't want to. People that play basketball in wheelchairs tend to play basketball because they want to, not because people like watching it.

immoral

immoral
Would you care to elaborate?

I don't think they're a good idea. im no expert, so im probably werong, but being mentally diablsed does not limit you phisically. A swimmer with this problem could easily beat a swimmer without it. it is not like the physicaly desbled olympics. It is just not allowing an athlete to go to the regualr olympics becasue of thier mental disaility.

I believe, although I have no particular knowledge of the special olympics, that it is not only for those with MR. I suspect that those who participate in the special olympics are roughly the same as those who are eligible to recieve special education under the law. As regards this law, there are several categories, of which MR is only one. One other is, for example, orthepedic impairment. Those with OI would not be able to participate in the actual olympics.

Moreover, among those with MR, though there is no specific medical condition associated with it, they do have a much higher rate of medical issues than does the general population.

...And now I'm off to put all that information to good use in my SPLED exam today...

Diane Simmons: Welcome to the Quahog special persons olympics, today we'll be seeing some of the best special peoples go head to head, you'll laugh you'll cry, infact by the end of the day theres a distinct possibility that we'll all be going to hell.

(Quote may not be exact)

Are the Special Olympics moral or immoral?

Yes, No, Unsure.

That poll makes no sense. What, "yes, it's immoral" or "yes, it's moral"? You can't have a "yes or no" answer to a question that asks more than one thing.

In case you aren't aware, the Special Olympics are basically just like the Olympics for mentally-challenged people.
What about physical disabilities such as amputees? Many physically disabled people are not in the least bit hindered mentally - take a look at possibly the greatest scientist of the twenty/twenty-first century.
No one would support the idea of a child olympics or a teenage olympics because, obviously, people would be forcing them to compete and young people shouldn't be subject to such strenuous athletic competition.
What about the under 18 Olympic Teams? By your statement, any activity in which the participants are either under 18/21 years of age and are not consenting make it both immoral bordering on illegal. How does sport enter compulsory education in that case? It is of course presupposing that you are only referring to competetive sport. But then again, all sport - regardless of time and place is competitive.
Even dog-racing and horse-racing is considered immoral by many people, because of an infringement on animal rights. Not that I'm saying mentally-challenged people are animals (we're all animals, actually), but logically, the special olympics are closer to dog-racing than the normal olympics, because the mentally-challenged don't really have much of a choice.
Actually, you'll find that there is quite a complicated entrance procedure and that most (I say most because I am omitting those who are unable to communicate verbally) are actually aware of what's going on. An awareness of one's surroundings and what is goin on is different to being able to communicate that back to someone.
There is also a lot of confusion here between learning disabilities which you seem to be referring to and mental illness. Not to be patronising, but learning disabilities include autism or down-syndrome as highlighted in the special olympics whereas mental illness covers schizophrenia, psychosis, delusions etc. The line is very fine between them and often confused due to the symptoms being indistinguishable.
I mean, you can't really ASK THEM if they want to be in the special olympics. You could ask them, "Are you gay?" and they'd say, "Uhhhhhh... OK!!!!" You know what I mean? Therefore, all you can do is just force them to, train them, and condition them. Is that right?
That is a highly contentious sentence. Just because someone cannot say yes or no to a question does not mean that they are able comunicate in an alternative way. Also, your example does not do your argument any favours, as already mentioned, you seem to be confusing learning disablities and mental health.
Even people who engage in the Olympics voluntarily often have really nasty, brutal, and cruel trainers... I mean, there have been stories about this on gymnastics and ice skating trainers, with young girls. With American football and basketball, coaches are certainly rather nasty too.
Stories - so you've neither heard or seen anythingthat is based on fact then?
So... Is it right to subject mentally-challenged kids to this? I mean, you could say, "Oh, it gives them pride," but I've known a lot of mentally-challenged kids because I went to an equal-opportunity high school in a heavily-populated area. And most mentally-challenged people have little to no concept of pride or dignity.
Just because your school was allegedly equal opportunities has no bearing on the question at hand. I sincerely doubt that it had the specialist equipment, staffing skills and knowledges to effectively work with those people who have a learning/physical disability or mental illness.

Having worked as a Community Worker for a group that works predominantly with the three classifications of disability, I can say that your statement here is both categorically and intrinsically wrong in both the nature and the will (according to Kant). That statement, as well as the former is a discredit to their humanity.
There was a mentally challenged kid in my school who, when he went to the urinal, would drop his pants and underwear completely to the floor, peeing there with his ass hanging out for everyone to see (instead of just opening his fly).
Perhaps then, someone should have suggested he use the cublical instead of him subjecting himself to social-ridicule. If you are as caring as you seem to have convinced yourself to be - why didn't you.
It may also be that there were unseen problems compounding the intial diagnosis. Third-parties are often to quick to make assumptions based purely on what is visible. It may be that this was the only way that this person was able to cater for their toilet needs on their own. The promotion of independence is vital for inclusion but should be undertaken in a sympthetic manner.
He also used to pick his nose, then wipe gigantic boogers on his coat, walking around, not noticing or caring.
To me, it sounds as if this person has a condition kown as Social-disorder where the unseen rules of culture and society are eithr misinterpreted on misunderstood. Sometimes, they are not even noticed due to the sublimity and subtle, complex nature of the construction of society.
Now... Being that he clearly just doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't really all that aware of what's going on, how can anyone claim that mentally challenged kids can perceive something as intellectual as pride from winning a contest?
Pride is not an intellectual construction based on winning. It is a construction of being able to recognise your achievements - something that the special olympics is attempting to create.
Actually, winning and pride are constructs formed by the self, and by design are selfish, as they revolve arund the self - much like the psychology and social interactions of children.
I mean, there was one mentally-challenged guy in our school who was actually fairly conscious. He wasn't really outright retarded, really. I mean, if you didn't know any better, you'd just think that he was normal, but really, really stupid. But out of like a dozen or so mentally-challenged kids in our school, he was the only one that you could actually have a logical conversation with. Even then, though, people had a habit of falsely telling him that others made fun of his mom (to encourage him to go be violent with him) or paying him quarters to go hit someone, and he'd often do it. So, once again, even then... he still wasn't really conscious enough to make decisions for himself.
An absurdly irrelevant example. Children and teenagers can be very cruel and manipulative. I fail to see how this has any bearing on the issue(s) at hand. I also recommend that the distinctions confused here are clarified.