NationStates Jolt Archive

Comment: I found this article insightful and scary. I've heard many anecdotes designed to make us blame the Katrina victims. (Sometimes the express version even slips out from the lips of those like Momma Bush.)

There is an email meme going around about a "true story" of a doctor who went to the New Orleans Convention Center to help Katrina victims, and was assaulted and insulted by angry, complaining, foul-mouthed people who should have been grateful to see him.

In fact, there is no such doctor. He doesn't exist. The email's melodramatic content is easily accepted by people who want to believe that New Orleans' poor (read "black people") are spoiled welfare brats who starve their children in order to have satellite television. Empowered by Reagan's "welfare queen" rhetoric, those who hate both people of color and the poor are having a field day with the aftermath of Katrina.

Unfortunately, Louisiana's reputation for corruption and political chicanery makes it even easier to attack New Orleans during a crisis. People are justifiably worried about what kind of new chaos the state will put itself into in the wake of such a terrible catastrophe. I live in Louisiana, and I certainly do not trust some of the state's more ignorant and backward citizens (better known as the legislature) to create sensible solutions to our new problems. But the people who were too poor, too sick, and too disabled to get out of the city when the storm approached have become the very unfortunate symbol of deeply held racial bigotry.

Good news or bad--the contempt is now spreading to white people. Last night, in a sucession of phone calls to our temporary post-hurricane radio channel, people expressed displeasure at how Louisianians cannot do anything but complain, complain, complain about FEMA. "They're doing the best they can," "All you people in south Louisiana can say is 'give me, give me'," "People in Louisiana are just greedy."

The fact of the matter is that FEMA is still doing practically nothing at all; the personnel changes have meant little to hurricane victims. People who returned to their houses are being told that they cannot get money because they were "not displaced," grants have suddenly become loans, the agency has failed to show up at community meetings (and in one case, sent a Texas contractor who kept people in line for hours filling out applications that were invalid and had to be trashed), promised FEMA money was never sent to desperate Plaquemines Parish, and the Blue Roof program has made it next to impossible for many people to get their leaking roofs covered.

Obviously, someone in Washington is busy creating these "lazy black people" and "whiny white people" memes. I don't know who it is, but the whole project certainly has Karen Hughes' imprint all over it. This was the tactic Hughes used to smear Governor Ann Richards during the Texas gubernatorial election, and I have long suspected that Karl Rove has gotten a lot of credit for dirty work that is really more Hughes' style.

Many of the citizens of southeast Louisiana who still have their houses are nevertheless at their wits' end, with moldy walls, leaky roofs, no electricity, no jobs, no phones, and no way to get help. Attempts to cover up the massive failures of the federal government by blaming the victims is beyond shameful.

I can't blame FEMA alone.

There's a marvelous photo of hundreds of school and city buses underwater in New Orleans - vehicles that Mayor Nagin could have used to evacuate people prior to the storm.

The governor waited and waited until complete chaos was in progress in New Orleans with rioting and looting - and still she did not declare martial law, as was her power.

The National Guard cannot act except at the order of the state Governor, or if federalized, at the orders of the President.

Would be hard to federalize the National Guard there without upsetting the governor.

And there's that neat DVD that Mayor Nagin was handing out six months prior to the storm. A DVD in which you see him saying that in the event of a storm, "you are on your own."

Nice. Wonder why the people of New Orleans voted for him, or paid any taxes.

It's not all FEMA's fault. Yes, they could be doing a lot better. But there's a lot of blame I could lay all the way down the line.

In your defense of FEMA, you missed entirely the point of my post.

In your defense of FEMA, you missed entirely the point of my post.
I wouldn't give him too much of your time. I just ignore anyone who claims the governor didn't do anything until the hurricane hit.

who's lazy?

who thinks they have some natural right to the vast majority
of the earth's resources?

total b.s.
Sorry, some wannabe oligarch is way more lazy than any of us.



yes, "entitlement" is Legitimate.
entitled to a portion of the earth's resources.
what gives you the right to deny food from anybody?

uh, oh yeah, your guns.
peace

In your defense of FEMA, you missed entirely the point of my post.
I'm not defending FEMA. You might notice that. I'm saying that every level of government involved screwed up in a very large way.

I haven't heard a single word from FEMA talking in the manner you've mentioned.

There may be news people who talk like that, but I haven't heard a single FEMA spokesman or official FEMA announcement with the word "whiny" in it, or mentioning black people as a problem.

I've personally driven two trucks full of supplies from our church down to Mississippi. Considering the damage that I saw, I don't believe that any government could "react" in a timely manner.

I may have mentioned this before: it takes time to mobilize supplies and move people. In the Army, where everything is supposedly organized, and the only reason for some soldiers' existence is to move things around, it takes 18 hours to *begin* to move a mere 1500 soldiers and their equipment. And that's if they have prior notice of the movement, and have airlift already scheduled.

Try moving supplies to a region devastated by a hurricane - whether you're the local, state, or Federal government. Try evacuating people who have never practiced it.

Then, when it goes wrong, do as Mayor Nagin did, and play the race card IMMEDIATELY, if only to divert attention from his complete incompetence as mayor of New Orleans.

It's a natural disaster. And I personally do not believe that "race" had any role to play in it. When I was in Mississippi, I did not see the houses of blacks destroyed while the storm spared the houses of whites. Nor did I see a disparate distribution of misery by race. Nor did I see a disparate handing out of help.

If any people are playing the race baiting card one way or the other, as your post suggests, it is an idiotic thing to do. It was bad enough that Mayor Nagin started it. It is bad enough that news organizations continue. But I haven't heard any official Federal announcements of the type you indicate.

New Orleans is in the state of Louisiana. Mississippi is to the east of Louisiana.

New Orleans is in the state of Louisiana. Mississippi is to the east of Louisiana.

It's not like the hurricane cares where the state lines are drawn. Or are you saying that the hurricane, which blew cities and towns in Mississippi completely off the map, was worse in New Orleans, and went out of its way to hit black people there (as opposed to black people in Mississippi)?

Sorry. Another truck from our church went to Louisiana. Didn't see any difference there, either, other than more complete damage in Mississippi.

I'm saying this is about New Orleans, which is not Mississippi.

I'm saying this is about New Orleans, which is not Mississippi.

And I'm saying that the hurricane could care less. And some of the people from our church went to Louisiana (couldn't get into New Orleans because it was underwater at the time).

None of us saw the racism you're talking about. And I urge you to post a link to an official statement by an official spokesman or head of FEMA (or other Federal authority) where they make a statement you consider to be racist.

In order to have racism, you have to do more than Mayor Nagin did - he only shouted it over and over again. You have to prove it. And I do not believe for a minute that you can.

Sierra BTHP is still missing the point. The issue on this thread is not whether the government responded in a timely manner or not or even whether the blame falls on the state or federal side.

It's about the spreading of the attitude of "them selfish, whiny bastards aren't being grateful enough"

And if an official branch did something like this, they'd get sued from here to the protozoan era on some ground or another.

But rumors can't be sued, and finding the originator of one is near impossible, so spreading tales like this can do a lot of damage. And you can't say that these stories don't exist. There was one guy who posted his claimed 'experience' in almost the exact same manner on this forum I believe, or citing a letter that said it.

The terminology, the way it was constructed, everything about it said, "I'm helping you people so that I can feel good, so you better get on your knees and thank me". Course when that didn't happen, it became a diatribe against the victims.

Sierra BTHP is still missing the point. The issue on this thread is not whether the government responded in a timely manner or not or even whether the blame falls on the state or federal side.

It's about the spreading of the attitude of "them selfish, whiny bastards aren't being grateful enough"

And if an official branch did something like this, they'd get sued from here to the protozoan era on some ground or another.

But rumors can't be sued, and finding the originator of one is near impossible, so spreading tales like this can do a lot of damage. And you can't say that these stories don't exist. There was one guy who posted his claimed 'experience' in almost the exact same manner on this forum I believe, or citing a letter that said it.

The terminology, the way it was constructed, everything about it said, "I'm helping you people so that I can feel good, so you better get on your knees and thank me". Course when that didn't happen, it became a diatribe against the victims.


I think that unproven rumors are poisonous. If you spread a rumor that says that the Federal response was slow because of racism (instead of the probable truth that it was a mix of incompetence and overwhemling disaster), that's poisonous. If you spread a rumor that the Feds now think people are whiny ingrates, that's poisonous.

Stop spreading rumors. If you can't point to an official policy statement, or other solid, solid proof, it's best to not repeat the rumor.

One problem we had in collecting relief to fill the trucks we drove down were news slices of people saying that white people outside of Louisiana were racists and were to blame. Our pastor had to give a talk on what people say when they are upset - and the people in New Orleans were really upset (and had a right to be).

I think that unproven rumors are poisonous. If you spread a rumor that says that the Federal response was slow because of racism (instead of the probable truth that it was a mix of incompetence and overwhemling disaster), that's poisonous. If you spread a rumor that the Feds now think people are whiny ingrates, that's poisonous.

Stop spreading rumors. If you can't point to an official policy statement, or other solid, solid proof, it's best to not repeat the rumor.

One problem we had in collecting relief to fill the trucks we drove down were news slices of people saying that white people outside of Louisiana were racists and were to blame. Our pastor had to give a talk on what people say when they are upset - and the people in New Orleans were really upset (and had a right to be).

But inaction on one part alone is going to put a stop to rumors. Pretending it doesn't exist won't do any good if other people believe it and spread it. That's why when you know something is a rumor and you know that other people believe it, it is best to do whatever is possible to quash it or at least make other people realize that it is an unsubstantiated rumor.

The pastor in your own story after all, took an active hand in quashing the rumor. Imagine if he had done nothing.

You see, it doesn't HAVE to be official policy or even a statement. All it needs is someone with malicious intent to post the letter up on the internet and let the people who believe spread the story. Choosing not to talk about it when other people do simply allows it to go unchecked among those who would be suckered into it.

The pastor in your own story after all, took an active hand in quashing the rumor. Imagine if he had done nothing.


Sometimes trying to quash a rumor only makes people believe it all the more.

We weren't going on a rumor. We were watching Mayor Nagin run his fat mouth about how racist we supposedly were.

We had already loaded the first truck when we heard him talk like that.

If we were racist, would we have loaded up a truck full of goods for them?

If we were racist, would we have driven down there in spite of his stupid comments?

Someone needs to take the people who talk like that to task - immediately.

We weren't going on a rumor. We were watching Mayor Nagin run his fat mouth about how racist we supposedly were.

Fact or conjecture? A link would be handy.


Someone needs to take the people who talk like that to task - immediately.

And someone needs to take people who talk like they did in the letter of the op to task as well. But the problem is that these people send their letters anonymously, so you have no target. What CAN you do other than at least try to dispell it as the fake it is?

Please, try to stay on topic for this thread at least.

Fact or conjecture? A link would be handy.


gee, I'm going to have to link to everything that Nagin said in his fury for the two weeks after the storm.

I watched him say it. Over and over and over again.

And on topic, sometimes denying a rumor, or trying to show that the rumor isn't true by being very pro-active makes everyone believe the rumor is true.

You're screwed either way when someone makes false accusations.

gee, I'm going to have to link to everything that Nagin said in his fury for the two weeks after the storm.

Welcome to NS general. We are link addicted here. Particularly when stating something as fact. No link statements of fact tend to get little credible belief unless they happen to be on the lighter vein and intended to be taken as humor.


And on topic, sometimes denying a rumor, or trying to show that the rumor isn't true by being very pro-active makes everyone believe the rumor is true.

You're screwed either way when someone makes false accusations.

But is it not worse by not doing anything? Those who are open minded may be able to take in counter arguments at the very least.

Welcome to NS general. We are link addicted here. Particularly when stating something as fact. No link statements of fact tend to get little credible belief unless they happen to be on the lighter vein and intended to be taken as humor.


Yes, I've been here a long time (as another country). If you've been in the US, it would have been hard to miss Nagin's racism accusations.

I'll see if I can dig one up.

I had trouble here before because I referenced "books". Seems that no one wants to pay for information, either (such as online electronic journals that require payment).

I find that the more I pay for information, the more I tend to believe it.

Yes, I've been here a long time (as another country). If you've been in the US, it would have been hard to miss Nagin's racism accusations.

I'll see if I can dig one up.

I had trouble here before because I referenced "books". Seems that no one wants to pay for information, either (such as online electronic journals that require payment).

I find that the more I pay for information, the more I tend to believe it.

You're ARF-COM and BTL aren't you? Then your trouble wasn't because you referenced books, but the content itself.

You're ARF-COM and BTL aren't you? Then your trouble wasn't because you referenced books, but the content itself.

Nope, I'm Whispering Legs.

Hehe, everything else aside, reading excerpts from Brown's statements to the "pseudo-independent" panel is hilarious. Of course, he blames Nagin and Blanco (like there isn't enough blame to go around).

Some choice excerpts:

"I've overseen over 150 presidentially declared disasters. I know what I'm doing, and I think I do a pretty darn good job of it," Brown said. (Is that a lot? That seems like a lot.)

Brown said: "Those are not FEMA roles. FEMA doesn't evacuate communities. FEMA does not do law enforcement. FEMA does not do communications." (Er, then what does FEMA do...other than not pay attention to news reports and lag behind the information curve the entire rest of the country was on?)

Everyone failed in New Orleans, from top to bottom. That's perhaps not completely true. There were good people on the ground, trying to get a task accomplished. Everyone in administration, however, from Mayor to Governer to FEMA Head blew it big time. You can tell because now they're all anxious to point fingers at each other.

I agree many are.

I wouldn't give him too much of your time. I just ignore anyone who claims the governor didn't do anything until the hurricane hit.
You mean kinda like you ignore everyone and everything that doesn't cater to your particular and peculiar ideology? :rolleyes:

BTW ... I got one of those emails too. I just deleted it as another in a long, long line of misleading emails.

Christ, this again? People are still complaining that the Katrina response wasn't fast enough... compared to what exactly? This has been the largest natural disaster in American history, and dealing with it isn't exactly what I would call a cake walk.

There is a strong contingent of people in this country who detest the current administration so much that they will leap at any chance to denounce it and spread all this sensationalist shit that we've been hearing for the last month. We've got a shit ton of volunteer workers down there busting their asses, and the response we've seen in this country would not happen in most other countries at all. In fact, had New Orleans been situated a few hundred miles to the southwest , none of this furor would exist. Not only that, but if you thought [i]our response was inadequate, try huring a category four tropical cyclone at any other country that gets them. Most of the time, they have higher body counts, even for cities that have the luxury of sitting above seal level.

Quit whining already, goddamn it. We're busting our asses to fix that shit, and we have been since it was safe to do so. Yes, a few things could have gone more smoothly, but wasting our time bitchin about what didn't get done right isn't going to change the facts of the situation. I understand a lot of the mudslinging is done with the intention of making sure this doesn't happen again, and I can sympathize with that, but some folks are taking this entirely too far.

But inaction on one part alone is going to put a stop to rumors. Pretending it doesn't exist won't do any good if other people believe it and spread it. That's why when you know something is a rumor and you know that other people believe it, it is best to do whatever is possible to quash it or at least make other people realize that it is an unsubstantiated rumor.

The pastor in your own story after all, took an active hand in quashing the rumor. Imagine if he had done nothing.

You see, it doesn't HAVE to be official policy or even a statement. All it needs is someone with malicious intent to post the letter up on the internet and let the people who believe spread the story. Choosing not to talk about it when other people do simply allows it to go unchecked among those who would be suckered into it.

See the problem is that there is not just rumor dispelling going on here. There are more rumors. What evidence is presented that Karen Hughes had anything to do with the rumors? None. Just another rumor. Dispel rumors. It's an admirable goal. Using tragedy to attack people because you don't like thier politics OR their skin color is sad, weak and deserved to be called to the carpet every time it happens. Nagin did it. The referenced email did it. And the origin post of this thread did it. All of the originators deserve my disdain and then some.